Guest dennis@home Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor "Stephan Rose" <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> wrote in message news:uO-dnUkdCuY6LWrbRVnyhAA@giganews.com... > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:11:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote: > >> "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message >> news:Oq9i2Vj$HHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> >> >>>> A user shouldn't really need to research to see if an OS supports a >>>> standard display mode. >>> >>> >>> >>> Then why are users constantly told here that many of their problems are >>> due to their lack of research? >> >> There is a big difference between expecting an OS to support a standard >> operating mode and expecting it to support every bit of odd hardware. > > Well on that note, Not on that note at all really but if you must bring odd hardware into a discussion about software.. > Vista does not out of the box support my nVidia 8800 > GTX which definitely is not in the "odd hardware" category. It certainly isn't in the common hardware either. > The best > choice of a screen resolution that Vista gave me was 1024x768 on a > 1600x1200 monitor. > > Ubuntu supports it out of the box and instantly gives me the correct > resolution. > > Vista, I needed to hunt down a beta driver to make it work. Having to use > Beta drivers on a production machine 6 months after an OS' release is > pathetic. It is.. why did you buy such crap hardware? Didn't you have a choice? Why didn't you choose something that did what you wanted? > > Now one could blame nVidia for this, but then again, nVidia had full > support for Linux for their 8800 GTX cards from day one I bet they don't have *full* support. There is nothing on linux to use the full capability of the card. If you think there is maybe you would let us know. > and Ubuntu 7.10 > will recognize it out of the box. If I didn't need full 3D Acceleration I > could even just run the open source driver and not even bother clicking > the "enable" button next to the nVidia proprietary driver. Would save a > mouse click or two during the install process. > > So if Linux is fully supported, XP is fully supported, but 6 months down > the line Vista drivers are still in a Beta stage...to me, that points to > more of a problem with Vista than anything else. What it probably means is that they took an old driver and bodged it for linux.. easy to do as there are *no applications* that are going to use all the cards features. With windows they need to support the full 3D feature set and get it reasonably quick or gamers aren't going to buy it.
Guest Stephan Rose Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:00:31 +0100, dennis@home wrote: > "Stephan Rose" <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> wrote in message > news:uO-dnUkdCuY6LWrbRVnyhAA@giganews.com... >> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:11:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote: >> >>> "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message >>> news:Oq9i2Vj$HHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> >>> >>>>> A user shouldn't really need to research to see if an OS supports a >>>>> standard display mode. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Then why are users constantly told here that many of their problems >>>> are due to their lack of research? >>> >>> There is a big difference between expecting an OS to support a >>> standard operating mode and expecting it to support every bit of odd >>> hardware. >> >> Well on that note, > > Not on that note at all really but if you must bring odd hardware into a > discussion about software.. > >> Vista does not out of the box support my nVidia 8800 GTX which >> definitely is not in the "odd hardware" category. > > It certainly isn't in the common hardware either. > >> The best >> choice of a screen resolution that Vista gave me was 1024x768 on a >> 1600x1200 monitor. >> >> Ubuntu supports it out of the box and instantly gives me the correct >> resolution. >> >> Vista, I needed to hunt down a beta driver to make it work. Having to >> use Beta drivers on a production machine 6 months after an OS' release >> is pathetic. > > It is.. why did you buy such crap hardware? Didn't you have a choice? > Why didn't you choose something that did what you wanted? Crap hardware? The 8800GTX is the highest performance card available so I chose what I wanted: The highest performance card I could buy because that is what I needed. > > >> Now one could blame nVidia for this, but then again, nVidia had full >> support for Linux for their 8800 GTX cards from day one > > I bet they don't have *full* support. There is nothing on linux to use > the full capability of the card. If you think there is maybe you would > let us know. Actually yes they have *full* support. And yes, there is software on linux to use the full capability of the card, such as the CAD/CAM package I am looking to buy: Pro/Engineer. Most certainly not a toy. I also write software that requires 3D Acceleration via OpenGL. > >> and Ubuntu 7.10 >> will recognize it out of the box. If I didn't need full 3D Acceleration >> I could even just run the open source driver and not even bother >> clicking the "enable" button next to the nVidia proprietary driver. >> Would save a mouse click or two during the install process. >> >> So if Linux is fully supported, XP is fully supported, but 6 months >> down the line Vista drivers are still in a Beta stage...to me, that >> points to more of a problem with Vista than anything else. > > What it probably means is that they took an old driver and bodged it for > linux.. easy to do as there are *no applications* that are going to use > all the cards features. Sorry but that's simply not true. The nVidia driver has support for every feature of the card. Sorry to burst your poor little bubble. There isn't a single feature of the card that is available to me under Windows that is not available to me under Linux. -- Stephan 2003 Yamaha R6 君のこと思い出す日なんてないのは 君のこと忘れたときがないから
Guest Stephan Rose Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:56:16 +0200, Hadron wrote: > Stephan Rose <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> writes: > >> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 04:20:33 +0200, Hadron wrote: >> >>> Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net> writes: >>> >>>> Tim Smith wrote: >>>>> In article <od6dnb_MGJVC5WvbRVnyvQA@giganews.com>, >>>>> Stephan Rose <nospam@spammer.com> wrote: >>>>>> Very true. Plugging the cable into the connector on the back of the >>>>>> video card and then pushing the power button on that monitor is an >>>>>> extremely difficult task. Oh and, don't forget to plug in the power >>>>>> cord. >>>>> >>>>> Getting the video modes right can sometimes be a bit of a challenge >>>>> for many. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Yes it can but Ubuntu is easier than most and these kinds of things >>>> get easier all the time. >>> >>> >>> But a quick visit to Google reveals all sorts of issues. Look up >>> getting Beryl to work on Debian for example. >> >> One can always find a problem with anything if one looks for it. A >> quick visit to google can also reveal all sorts of issues that people >> can have doing a simple task such as breathing! Breathing must suck >> apparently... > > No two ways. And I agree. But getting high performance Video cards > working is a damn sight easier on XP because the installers are better. > Debian/Ubuntu are a pain in the hole - you need to recompile the latest > NVidia drivers using a set version of the compiler, for example, when > changing kernels. No you don't. Well, Debian Maybe. Ubuntu? No. I've been running 7.10 for about a month now and gone through at least 5 or more kernel updates. Number of times I've recompiled the nVidia kernel module: ZERO. It's handled automatically when the kernel is updated. I don't have to do a single thing. I *haven't* needed to do a single thing on two computers both running 7.10 for the same length of time, both running nVidia drivers, both having seen the same number of Kernel changes. -- Stephan 2003 Yamaha R6 君のこと思い出す日なんてないのは 君のこと忘れたときがないから
Guest Hadron Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Stephan Rose <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> writes: > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:56:16 +0200, Hadron wrote: > >> Stephan Rose <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> writes: >> >>> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 04:20:33 +0200, Hadron wrote: >>> >>>> Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net> writes: >>>> >>>>> Tim Smith wrote: >>>>>> In article <od6dnb_MGJVC5WvbRVnyvQA@giganews.com>, >>>>>> Stephan Rose <nospam@spammer.com> wrote: >>>>>>> Very true. Plugging the cable into the connector on the back of the >>>>>>> video card and then pushing the power button on that monitor is an >>>>>>> extremely difficult task. Oh and, don't forget to plug in the power >>>>>>> cord. >>>>>> >>>>>> Getting the video modes right can sometimes be a bit of a challenge >>>>>> for many. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Yes it can but Ubuntu is easier than most and these kinds of things >>>>> get easier all the time. >>>> >>>> >>>> But a quick visit to Google reveals all sorts of issues. Look up >>>> getting Beryl to work on Debian for example. >>> >>> One can always find a problem with anything if one looks for it. A >>> quick visit to google can also reveal all sorts of issues that people >>> can have doing a simple task such as breathing! Breathing must suck >>> apparently... >> >> No two ways. And I agree. But getting high performance Video cards >> working is a damn sight easier on XP because the installers are better. >> Debian/Ubuntu are a pain in the hole - you need to recompile the latest >> NVidia drivers using a set version of the compiler, for example, when >> changing kernels. > > No you don't. Well, Debian Maybe. > > Ubuntu? No. > > I've been running 7.10 for about a month now and gone through at least 5 > or more kernel updates. > > Number of times I've recompiled the nVidia kernel module: ZERO. You're right. I forgot about the restricted driver manager now. It is a BIG improvement. > > It's handled automatically when the kernel is updated. I don't have to do > a single thing. I *haven't* needed to do a single thing on two computers > both running 7.10 for the same length of time, both running nVidia > drivers, both having seen the same number of Kernel changes. -- En el futuro no se usará MODEM para acceder a Internet. -- Vinton Cerf. (1934) Padre de Internet. (Fundador de Internet Society).
Guest Peter Köhlmann Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Stephan Rose wrote: > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:56:16 +0200, Hadron wrote: > >> Stephan Rose <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> writes: >> >>> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 04:20:33 +0200, Hadron wrote: >>> >>>> Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net> writes: >>>> >>>>> Tim Smith wrote: >>>>>> In article <od6dnb_MGJVC5WvbRVnyvQA@giganews.com>, >>>>>> Stephan Rose <nospam@spammer.com> wrote: >>>>>>> Very true. Plugging the cable into the connector on the back of the >>>>>>> video card and then pushing the power button on that monitor is an >>>>>>> extremely difficult task. Oh and, don't forget to plug in the power >>>>>>> cord. >>>>>> >>>>>> Getting the video modes right can sometimes be a bit of a challenge >>>>>> for many. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Yes it can but Ubuntu is easier than most and these kinds of things >>>>> get easier all the time. >>>> >>>> >>>> But a quick visit to Google reveals all sorts of issues. Look up >>>> getting Beryl to work on Debian for example. >>> >>> One can always find a problem with anything if one looks for it. A >>> quick visit to google can also reveal all sorts of issues that people >>> can have doing a simple task such as breathing! Breathing must suck >>> apparently... >> >> No two ways. And I agree. But getting high performance Video cards >> working is a damn sight easier on XP because the installers are better. >> Debian/Ubuntu are a pain in the hole - you need to recompile the latest >> NVidia drivers using a set version of the compiler, for example, when >> changing kernels. > > No you don't. Well, Debian Maybe. > > Ubuntu? No. > > I've been running 7.10 for about a month now and gone through at least 5 > or more kernel updates. > > Number of times I've recompiled the nVidia kernel module: ZERO. > > It's handled automatically when the kernel is updated. I don't have to do > a single thing. I *haven't* needed to do a single thing on two computers > both running 7.10 for the same length of time, both running nVidia > drivers, both having seen the same number of Kernel changes. > The "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs user", "swapfile expert", "X specialist", "CUPS guru", "USB-disk server admin", "newsreader magician" and "hardware maven" Hadron Quark, aka Hans Schneider, aka Damian O'Leary has these problems because he is running a liveCD only So he needs to scrounge the net for all his problems he "has" Some "small errors" might creep in that way -- Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware
Guest JEDIDIAH Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor On 2007-09-23, dennis@home <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: > > "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message > news:u5Zj%23gh$HHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Tim Smith wrote: >>> In article <od6dnb_MGJVC5WvbRVnyvQA@giganews.com>, >>> Stephan Rose <nospam@spammer.com> wrote: >>>> Very true. Plugging the cable into the connector on the back of the >>>> video card and then pushing the power button on that monitor is an >>>> extremely difficult task. Oh and, don't forget to plug in the power >>>> cord. >>> >>> Getting the video modes right can sometimes be a bit of a challenge for >>> many. >>> >>> >> >> >> Yes it can but Ubuntu is easier than most and these kinds of things get >> easier all the time. > > Yes Ubuntu sets 1280x768 on my widescreen monitor automatically. > Shame its a 1280 x 720 lcd panel. > Just as well I can change it but I wonder how many newbies would fail? > XP and Vista get it right BTW. XP could also just be "getting it right by accident". That happens on occasion when a confluence of malfunctions happen to line up right. If Ubuntu is setting up a monitor to a certain resolution I would expect that the monitor is giving it some indication that it should be set to that resolution. In an absence of any real information, it's hard to say really. -- If you think that an 80G disk can hold HUNDRENDS of ||| hours of DV video then you obviously haven't used iMovie either. / | \
Guest Charlie Tame Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov wrote: > "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: > >> running on fixed hardware and none of this compatibility afford a computer. >> Its worth remembering that incompatible hardware is the price we pay for >> having so much choice and it could have been so different if M$ had sold >> exclusive rights to windows/dos to IBM, no affordable clones, no internet as >> we know it, no linux.. > > And then AmigA would of ruled the world as it was ment to. > > True enough, always makes me smile when they accuse MS of stealing from Apple, it was actually Workbench and Intuition they stole :)
Guest Charlie Tame Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Hadron wrote: > Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net> writes: > >> Tim Smith wrote: >>> In article <od6dnb_MGJVC5WvbRVnyvQA@giganews.com>, >>> Stephan Rose <nospam@spammer.com> wrote: >>>> Very true. Plugging the cable into the connector on the back of the >>>> video card and then pushing the power button on that monitor is an >>>> extremely difficult task. Oh and, don't forget to plug in the power >>>> cord. >>> Getting the video modes right can sometimes be a bit of a challenge >>> for many. >>> >>> >> >> Yes it can but Ubuntu is easier than most and these kinds of things >> get easier all the time. > > > But a quick visit to Google reveals all sorts of issues. Look up getting > Beryl to work on Debian for example. Don't need to look it up, I have it running alongside the one I'm typing on. BTDT > For some "it just works". Probably not on Debian actually but see this is what you are missing. Beryl, Compiz and a couple of others are NOT finished products and the community does NOT release them pretending that they are. I said, which you and Dennis apparently cannot interpret, "Getting easier", I did not say perfect... > Fortunately the "advocates" here are not in charge of prioritising bug > fixes. If so, we would all be tweaking the MBR and xorg.conf from now > until eternity. I have had far worse challenges trying to get things to work under Vista.
Guest Charlie Tame Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Stephan Rose wrote: > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:56:16 +0200, Hadron wrote: > >> Stephan Rose <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> writes: >> >>> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 04:20:33 +0200, Hadron wrote: >>> >>>> Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net> writes: >>>> >>>>> Tim Smith wrote: >>>>>> In article <od6dnb_MGJVC5WvbRVnyvQA@giganews.com>, >>>>>> Stephan Rose <nospam@spammer.com> wrote: >>>>>>> Very true. Plugging the cable into the connector on the back of the >>>>>>> video card and then pushing the power button on that monitor is an >>>>>>> extremely difficult task. Oh and, don't forget to plug in the power >>>>>>> cord. >>>>>> Getting the video modes right can sometimes be a bit of a challenge >>>>>> for many. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Yes it can but Ubuntu is easier than most and these kinds of things >>>>> get easier all the time. >>>> >>>> But a quick visit to Google reveals all sorts of issues. Look up >>>> getting Beryl to work on Debian for example. >>> One can always find a problem with anything if one looks for it. A >>> quick visit to google can also reveal all sorts of issues that people >>> can have doing a simple task such as breathing! Breathing must suck >>> apparently... >> No two ways. And I agree. But getting high performance Video cards >> working is a damn sight easier on XP because the installers are better. >> Debian/Ubuntu are a pain in the hole - you need to recompile the latest >> NVidia drivers using a set version of the compiler, for example, when >> changing kernels. > > No you don't. Well, Debian Maybe. > > Ubuntu? No. > > I've been running 7.10 for about a month now and gone through at least 5 > or more kernel updates. > > Number of times I've recompiled the nVidia kernel module: ZERO. > > It's handled automatically when the kernel is updated. I don't have to do > a single thing. I *haven't* needed to do a single thing on two computers > both running 7.10 for the same length of time, both running nVidia > drivers, both having seen the same number of Kernel changes. > For Debian look up "Envy".
Guest dennis@home Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message news:uqO3FVy$HHA.5868@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov wrote: >> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: >> >>> running on fixed hardware and none of this compatibility afford a >>> computer. Its worth remembering that incompatible hardware is the price >>> we pay for having so much choice and it could have been so different if >>> M$ had sold exclusive rights to windows/dos to IBM, no affordable >>> clones, no internet as we know it, no linux.. >> >> And then AmigA would of ruled the world as it was ment to. >> >> > > > True enough, always makes me smile when they accuse MS of stealing from > Apple, it was actually Workbench and Intuition they stole :) Apple stole it from Xerox even down to the one button mouse. How a thief has the nerve to accuse someone else of stealing what they stole I will never understand. Must be a lack of morals I suppose.
Guest dennis@home Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message news:OUARBay$HHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Probably not on Debian actually but see this is what you are missing. > Beryl, Compiz and a couple of others are NOT finished products and the > community does NOT release them pretending that they are. I said, which > you and Dennis apparently cannot interpret, "Getting easier", I did not > say perfect... I think its you that doesn't understand.. Linux is unfinished and it probably will remain that way as there will always be a new windows manager in the wings.. shame they don't fix the simple things first. However they won't as the existing Linux users and developers can't grasp how hard it is for a newbie to install and use Linux. How do they expect Linux to actually take over the desktop when they can't understand something so simple? Its not rocket science, its understanding your target users. If you look at the possible users M$ targets 100% while Linux might target 1-2%. Now if you look at the one laptop per child initiative they are targeting their users and are using "linux" howevr they have done a proper job and hidden all the cr@p that you get with most Linux distros. >> Fortunately the "advocates" here are not in charge of prioritising bug >> fixes. If so, we would all be tweaking the MBR and xorg.conf from now >> until eternity. > > I have had far worse challenges trying to get things to work under Vista. > Are they more difficult or do you just not know how? People always find things the know easy, just ask a rocket scientist if its difficult (PS no it isn't). It would be a waste of time asking you what needs to change in Linux to make it more acceptable to new users, unfortunately it is people like you that will be asked and who will guide Linux in the wrong direction. Its damn hard knowing how simple to make a system.. I know I have worked on systems that are expected^W required to work for *all* people, not just people who have been using the product for six months.
Guest Alias Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor dennis@home wrote: > > "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message > news:uqO3FVy$HHA.5868@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov wrote: >>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: >>> >>>> running on fixed hardware and none of this compatibility afford a >>>> computer. Its worth remembering that incompatible hardware is the >>>> price we pay for having so much choice and it could have been so >>>> different if M$ had sold exclusive rights to windows/dos to IBM, no >>>> affordable clones, no internet as we know it, no linux.. >>> >>> And then AmigA would of ruled the world as it was ment to. >>> >>> >> >> >> True enough, always makes me smile when they accuse MS of stealing >> from Apple, it was actually Workbench and Intuition they stole :) > > Apple stole it from Xerox even down to the one button mouse. > How a thief has the nerve to accuse someone else of stealing what they > stole I will never understand. > Must be a lack of morals I suppose. Interesting. I wonder why back in 84, if you wanted to buy a Mac in Venezuela, you had to buy it from a company called Team Apple-Xerox? -- Alias To email me, remove shoes
Guest Kier Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:02:09 +0100, dennis@home wrote: > > "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message > news:OUARBay$HHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > >> Probably not on Debian actually but see this is what you are missing. >> Beryl, Compiz and a couple of others are NOT finished products and the >> community does NOT release them pretending that they are. I said, which >> you and Dennis apparently cannot interpret, "Getting easier", I did not >> say perfect... > > I think its you that doesn't understand.. Linux is unfinished and it > probably will remain that way as there will always be a new windows manager > in the wings.. shame they don't fix the simple things first. However they > won't as the existing Linux users and developers can't grasp how hard it is > for a newbie to install and use Linux. How do they expect Linux to actually The thing is, it's *not* hard, even for a newbiew, to install and use Linux. I don't know why this keeps being repeated, when it's so manifestly not true. If someone is putting Linux on a machine where they aren't worried about losing the existing OS, nothing could be simpler. In most cases, put the CD or DVD into the machine and reboot. HOw is that hard? If there's aneed to partition first, then yes, that's alittle more daunting, but that goes for Windows too. > take over the desktop when they can't understand something so simple? How is Linux any harder to use than Windows? In general usage, they are virtually the same - move a mouse and click on menus or icons. Providing all is set up correctly to start with, little or no recourse to the command line should be required. Apps may be different, but they don similar things in largely similar ways, and quite a few of the core FOSS apps are available to Windows users anyway. > Its not rocket science, its understanding your target users. If you look > at the possible users M$ targets 100% while Linux might target 1-2%. Now > if you look at the one laptop per child initiative they are targeting > their users and are using "linux" howevr they have done a proper job and > hidden all the cr@p that you get with most Linux distros. Not sure what crap you're referring to. > >>> Fortunately the "advocates" here are not in charge of prioritising bug >>> fixes. If so, we would all be tweaking the MBR and xorg.conf from now >>> until eternity. >> >> I have had far worse challenges trying to get things to work under Vista. >> > > Are they more difficult or do you just not know how? Exactly. Linux is just the same. It's not 'difficult' to use, merely unfamiliar. If you've been used to Windows, you might need to find your way around in a different fashion, but it's no harder than Windows. > People always find things the know easy, just ask a rocket scientist if its > difficult (PS no it isn't). > It would be a waste of time asking you what needs to change in Linux to make > it more acceptable to new users, unfortunately it is people like you that > will be asked and who will guide Linux in the wrong direction. So, what do you consider the right direction to be? Bear in mind that most Linux users and developers don't want to see Linux become another lazy clone of Windows. -- Kier
Guest MICHAEL Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor * dennis@home: > "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message > news:OUARBay$HHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > >> Probably not on Debian actually but see this is what you are missing. >> Beryl, Compiz and a couple of others are NOT finished products and the >> community does NOT release them pretending that they are. I said, which >> you and Dennis apparently cannot interpret, "Getting easier", I did not >> say perfect... > > I think its you that doesn't understand.. Linux is unfinished and it > probably will remain that way as there will always be a new windows manager > in the wings.. shame they don't fix the simple things first. However they > won't as the existing Linux users and developers can't grasp how hard it is > for a newbie to install and use Linux. How do they expect Linux to actually > take over the desktop when they can't understand something so simple? Its > not rocket science, its understanding your target users. If you look at the > possible users M$ targets 100% while Linux might target 1-2%. Now if you > look at the one laptop per child initiative they are targeting their users > and are using "linux" howevr they have done a proper job and hidden all the > cr@p that you get with most Linux distros. > >>> Fortunately the "advocates" here are not in charge of prioritising bug >>> fixes. If so, we would all be tweaking the MBR and xorg.conf from now >>> until eternity. >> I have had far worse challenges trying to get things to work under Vista. >> > > Are they more difficult or do you just not know how? > People always find things the know easy, just ask a rocket scientist if its > difficult (PS no it isn't). > It would be a waste of time asking you what needs to change in Linux to make > it more acceptable to new users, unfortunately it is people like you that > will be asked and who will guide Linux in the wrong direction. > Its damn hard knowing how simple to make a system.. I know I have worked on > systems that are expected^W required to work for *all* people, not just > people who have been using the product for six months. You must be joking. If Kevin (kevpan815@hotmail.com) can install Linux, anyone can install Linux. Especially, Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS. I've installed a few versions of each, it really is quite simple. Really. Probably, even for you, Dennis. By the way, most folks in the Windows world *never* actually install the operating system, they buy computers with Windows already installed. This group would be 1000 times busier if many PC users had to install Windows themselves, as do most Linux users. -Michael
Guest Adam Albright Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:02:09 +0100, "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: >I think its you that doesn't understand.. Linux is unfinished and it >probably will remain that way as there will always be a new windows manager >in the wings.. shame they don't fix the simple things first. Let me guess, by that stupid statement you're implying Windows is finished? You want to talk windows manager, explain to me why in over twenty years of trying the Boys of Redmond still haven't come up with a shell good enough that many of their MVPs recommend and use something else. >However they >won't as the existing Linux users and developers can't grasp how hard it is >for a newbie to install and use Linux. How do they expect Linux to actually >take over the desktop when they can't understand something so simple? Its >not rocket science, its understanding your target users. Oh, understanding target users. Yea, your right, Microsoft is so good at that. Like the morons that designed a START button to turn off your computer or give you an option that ends up deleting your recycle bin when some newbies think you're just emptying the contents? You're right Dennis, shame those developing Linux don't have designers like Microsoft that make those kind of awe inspiring design decisions.
Guest The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor dennis@home wrote: > > "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message > news:uqO3FVy$HHA.5868@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov wrote: >>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: >>> >>>> running on fixed hardware and none of this compatibility afford a >>>> computer. Its worth remembering that incompatible hardware is the >>>> price we pay for having so much choice and it could have been so >>>> different if M$ had sold exclusive rights to windows/dos to IBM, no >>>> affordable clones, no internet as we know it, no linux.. >>> >>> And then AmigA would of ruled the world as it was ment to. >>> >>> >> >> >> True enough, always makes me smile when they accuse MS of stealing >> from Apple, it was actually Workbench and Intuition they stole :) > > Apple stole it from Xerox even down to the one button mouse. > How a thief has the nerve to accuse someone else of stealing what they > stole I will never understand. > Must be a lack of morals I suppose. A hypocritical lack of morals, methinks. -- Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group: http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html "Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer rights in the digital age are not frivolous." - Maura Corbett
Guest dennis@home Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message news:fq4if3dq6qh3uj6eimbm9ul7m3jm7bvjme@4ax.com... > On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:02:09 +0100, "dennis@home" > <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: > > >>I think its you that doesn't understand.. Linux is unfinished and it >>probably will remain that way as there will always be a new windows >>manager >>in the wings.. shame they don't fix the simple things first. > > Let me guess, by that stupid statement you're implying Windows is > finished? You want to talk windows manager, explain to me why in over > twenty years of trying the Boys of Redmond still haven't come up with > a shell good enough that many of their MVPs recommend and use > something else. Why are you so stupid as to bring windows into everything? Do you have a fixation on it? That comment was about linux and makes no comparisson to any other OS and stands alone Linux doesn't need anymore windows managers it does need some applications. > >>However they >>won't as the existing Linux users and developers can't grasp how hard it >>is >>for a newbie to install and use Linux. How do they expect Linux to >>actually >>take over the desktop when they can't understand something so simple? Its >>not rocket science, its understanding your target users. > > Oh, understanding target users. Yea, your right, Microsoft is so good > at that. Like the morons that designed a START button to turn off your > computer or give you an option that ends up deleting your recycle bin > when some newbies think you're just emptying the contents? > > You're right Dennis, shame those developing Linux don't have designers > like Microsoft that make those kind of awe inspiring design decisions. > You are being really stupid ATM, have you been stealing someone's pills?
Guest Top Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:51:25 -0400, MICHAEL wrote: > > > * dennis@home: >> "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message >> news:OUARBay$HHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> >>> Probably not on Debian actually but see this is what you are missing. >>> Beryl, Compiz and a couple of others are NOT finished products and the >>> community does NOT release them pretending that they are. I said, which >>> you and Dennis apparently cannot interpret, "Getting easier", I did not >>> say perfect... >> >> I think its you that doesn't understand.. Linux is unfinished and it >> probably will remain that way as there will always be a new windows manager >> in the wings.. shame they don't fix the simple things first. However they >> won't as the existing Linux users and developers can't grasp how hard it is >> for a newbie to install and use Linux. How do they expect Linux to actually >> take over the desktop when they can't understand something so simple? Its >> not rocket science, its understanding your target users. If you look at the >> possible users M$ targets 100% while Linux might target 1-2%. Now if you >> look at the one laptop per child initiative they are targeting their users >> and are using "linux" howevr they have done a proper job and hidden all the >> cr@p that you get with most Linux distros. >> >>>> Fortunately the "advocates" here are not in charge of prioritising bug >>>> fixes. If so, we would all be tweaking the MBR and xorg.conf from now >>>> until eternity. >>> I have had far worse challenges trying to get things to work under Vista. >>> >> >> Are they more difficult or do you just not know how? >> People always find things the know easy, just ask a rocket scientist if its >> difficult (PS no it isn't). >> It would be a waste of time asking you what needs to change in Linux to make >> it more acceptable to new users, unfortunately it is people like you that >> will be asked and who will guide Linux in the wrong direction. >> Its damn hard knowing how simple to make a system.. I know I have worked on >> systems that are expected^W required to work for *all* people, not just >> people who have been using the product for six months. > > You must be joking. > If Kevin (kevpan815@hotmail.com) can install Linux, > anyone can install Linux. > Especially, Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS. > > I've installed a few versions of each, it really is quite simple. > Really. Probably, even for you, Dennis. > > By the way, most folks in the Windows world *never* actually > install the operating system, they buy computers with Windows > already installed. This group would be 1000 times busier if > many PC users had to install Windows themselves, as do most Linux users. > > > > -Michael It might surprise you that there are NG just linux. If you are that interested in linux you might want to check them out. I'm sure that be more procutive for you. With your knowledge they will be glad to have when they need help. Top
Guest MICHAEL Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor * Top: > On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:51:25 -0400, MICHAEL wrote: > >> >> * dennis@home: >>> "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message >>> news:OUARBay$HHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> >>>> Probably not on Debian actually but see this is what you are missing. >>>> Beryl, Compiz and a couple of others are NOT finished products and the >>>> community does NOT release them pretending that they are. I said, which >>>> you and Dennis apparently cannot interpret, "Getting easier", I did not >>>> say perfect... >>> I think its you that doesn't understand.. Linux is unfinished and it >>> probably will remain that way as there will always be a new windows manager >>> in the wings.. shame they don't fix the simple things first. However they >>> won't as the existing Linux users and developers can't grasp how hard it is >>> for a newbie to install and use Linux. How do they expect Linux to actually >>> take over the desktop when they can't understand something so simple? Its >>> not rocket science, its understanding your target users. If you look at the >>> possible users M$ targets 100% while Linux might target 1-2%. Now if you >>> look at the one laptop per child initiative they are targeting their users >>> and are using "linux" howevr they have done a proper job and hidden all the >>> cr@p that you get with most Linux distros. >>> >>>>> Fortunately the "advocates" here are not in charge of prioritising bug >>>>> fixes. If so, we would all be tweaking the MBR and xorg.conf from now >>>>> until eternity. >>>> I have had far worse challenges trying to get things to work under Vista. >>>> >>> Are they more difficult or do you just not know how? >>> People always find things the know easy, just ask a rocket scientist if its >>> difficult (PS no it isn't). >>> It would be a waste of time asking you what needs to change in Linux to make >>> it more acceptable to new users, unfortunately it is people like you that >>> will be asked and who will guide Linux in the wrong direction. >>> Its damn hard knowing how simple to make a system.. I know I have worked on >>> systems that are expected^W required to work for *all* people, not just >>> people who have been using the product for six months. >> You must be joking. >> If Kevin (kevpan815@hotmail.com) can install Linux, >> anyone can install Linux. >> Especially, Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS. >> >> I've installed a few versions of each, it really is quite simple. >> Really. Probably, even for you, Dennis. >> >> By the way, most folks in the Windows world *never* actually >> install the operating system, they buy computers with Windows >> already installed. This group would be 1000 times busier if >> many PC users had to install Windows themselves, as do most Linux users. > > It might surprise you that there are NG just linux. If you are that > interested in linux you might want to check them out. I'm sure that be > more procutive for you. With your knowledge they will be glad to have when > they need help. The only thing that surprises me is the constant show of ignorance proudly displayed by so many.... and that doofus light seems to be shining rather brilliantly on you, too. I didn't set the cross-posting, I simply replied from the vista.general group. I've been posting in the Vista newsgroups since June 2006, and will continue to do so. If I feel like making a comment about Linux, I will do so. I use Vista on three machines, but I am certainly not anti-Linux, any more than I'm anti-Windows. -Michael
Guest Adam Albright Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:22:45 +0100, "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: > >"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message >news:fq4if3dq6qh3uj6eimbm9ul7m3jm7bvjme@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:02:09 +0100, "dennis@home" >> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: >> >> >>>I think its you that doesn't understand.. Linux is unfinished and it >>>probably will remain that way as there will always be a new windows >>>manager >>>in the wings.. shame they don't fix the simple things first. >> >> Let me guess, by that stupid statement you're implying Windows is >> finished? You want to talk windows manager, explain to me why in over >> twenty years of trying the Boys of Redmond still haven't come up with >> a shell good enough that many of their MVPs recommend and use >> something else. > >Why are you so stupid as to bring windows into everything? >Do you have a fixation on it? Answering a question by asking your own is a very weak "debating" tactic. A question for you is why are you like all fanboys so defensive of Windows? Every time I ask a question concerning one of Windows' many failings all fanboys either go into their yell and scream mode, try to change the topic or like you attempt to dodge the question. >> You're right Dennis, shame those developing Linux don't have designers >> like Microsoft that make those kind of awe inspiring design decisions. >> > >You are being really stupid ATM, have you been stealing someone's pills? Why Dennis, I thought you were above name calling and snipping parts of other people's posts you can't answer. I guess you're not.
Guest Frank Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Adam Albright wrote: > On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:22:45 +0100, "dennis@home" > <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: > > >>"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message >>news:fq4if3dq6qh3uj6eimbm9ul7m3jm7bvjme@4ax.com... >> >>>On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:02:09 +0100, "dennis@home" >>><dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>I think its you that doesn't understand.. Linux is unfinished and it >>>>probably will remain that way as there will always be a new windows >>>>manager >>>>in the wings.. shame they don't fix the simple things first. >>> >>>Let me guess, by that stupid statement you're implying Windows is >>>finished? You want to talk windows manager, explain to me why in over >>>twenty years of trying the Boys of Redmond still haven't come up with >>>a shell good enough that many of their MVPs recommend and use >>>something else. >> >>Why are you so stupid as to bring windows into everything? >>Do you have a fixation on it? > > > Answering a question by asking your own is a very weak "debating" > tactic. A question for you is why are you like all fanboys so > defensive of Windows? Every time I ask a question concerning one of > Windows' many failings all fanboys either go into their yell and > scream mode, try to change the topic or like you attempt to dodge the > question. > > >>>You're right Dennis, shame those developing Linux don't have designers >>>like Microsoft that make those kind of awe inspiring design decisions. >>> >> >>You are being really stupid ATM, have you been stealing someone's pills? > > > Why Dennis, I thought you were above name calling and snipping parts > of other people's posts you can't answer. I guess you're not. > What a totally ignorant drunken POS you are! Loser. Frank
Guest dennis@home Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message news:6ihif39a8jaoss8f6ojr93q5rj9cpd1rfu@4ax.com... Still wrong.
Guest sittingduck Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Charlie Tame wrote: >> Getting the video modes right can sometimes be a bit of a challenge for >> many. > Yes it can but Ubuntu is easier than most and these kinds of things get > easier all the time. Dual monitors is a real PITA under linux too. Even if you get them both working, there are very limited options for configuration. -- http://improve-usenet.org
Guest Adam Albright Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:30:27 +0100, "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote: > >"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message >news:6ihif39a8jaoss8f6ojr93q5rj9cpd1rfu@4ax.com... > >Still wrong. Frank should be worried. You may surpass him as the most moronic poster in this newsgroup. Considering how many nuts there are here, a considerable achievement. Bully for you Dennis!
Guest Peter Köhlmann Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor Re: Does linux support my new widescreen monitor sittingduck wrote: > Charlie Tame wrote: > >>> Getting the video modes right can sometimes be a bit of a challenge for >>> many. >> Yes it can but Ubuntu is easier than most and these kinds of things get >> easier all the time. > > Dual monitors is a real PITA under linux too. Even if you get them both > working, there are very limited options for configuration. > > Really? Strange that I haven't noticed since two years -- Another name for a Windows tutorial is crash course
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