Guest Dragon Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... I am not sure if you are following this correctly. I know that doing (480000*.35 or 480000/35*100) gives me the correct answer. Doing it the other way it should give me the same answer Just like other apps and calculators. But it does not. "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message news:iTRKi.1631$P21.180@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net... > If you key that into the calculator it gives you the correct answer I.E. > 480000/.35 > "Dragon" <noSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:en0iQoSAIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> that is exactly what I was thinking. >> >> >> "Stephen" <none> wrote in message >> news:%23XZsaGSAIHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.am.invalid.domain> wrote in message >>> news:kfknf3h9oi267e793dm5cmjv7fouvpb31r@4ax.com... >>>> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:56:05 -0700, "Dragon" >>>> <noSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I get what you are saying. It makes sense. Having said that, which one >>>>> is >>>>> wrong (Excel and $1 calculator or Win Calc)? >>>> >>>> >>>> As far as I'm concerned,all of the above (Excel and $1 calculator or >>>> Win Calc) are wrong. Sinner is correct. 480000 / (35%) is undefined. >>>> It's a meaningless calculation, It's like asking how much is 48 cows >>>> divided by 35 accordions. There is no answer. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Why is 480000 / (35%) undefined? >>> A percentage is just that: "per cent", or "for each hundred". >>> Hence 35% = 35/100 = 0.35 >>> So, 480000 / (35%) is the same as 480000/0.35 >>> >>> Stephen >>> >> >> > >
Guest Sinner Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... "John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message news:%23S4iavSAIHA.4836@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Ken Blake, MVP wrote: > > Interesting. Now put this to equation: > > Q- 480,000 is 35% of which number? > > In my way of seeing things the simple answer is to divide 480,000 by 35%. > In math % does not represent cows or accordions, it is just a symbol that > represents a ratio in hundredths, 35% = 35 one hundredths = 35/100, it is > a way of expressing a fraction. You just buggered yourself. "Q- 480,000 is 35%......." So, 35% cannot be 35/100 because 480,000 is 35/100 of something
Guest John John Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... Sinner wrote: > "John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message > news:%23S4iavSAIHA.4836@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > >>Ken Blake, MVP wrote: >> >>Interesting. Now put this to equation: >> >>Q- 480,000 is 35% of which number? >> >>In my way of seeing things the simple answer is to divide 480,000 by 35%. >>In math % does not represent cows or accordions, it is just a symbol that >>represents a ratio in hundredths, 35% = 35 one hundredths = 35/100, it is >>a way of expressing a fraction. > > > You just buggered yourself. "Q- 480,000 is 35%......." So, 35% cannot be > 35/100 because 480,000 is 35/100 of something No I didn't. Put the question into a working equation! The answer is: 480,000 divided by 35%. 480,000 is not a percent of of anything, in this case it's a number used in an example. Your rebuttal makes no more sense than saying 480,000 is one half or 50% of 960,000. In math plain and simply a percent is a hundredth and to do any calculations involving percents you have to convert them to real values. If 35% was supposed to be expressed as a percentage of another number then that part of the equation would have to be inside of parenthesis, by its own it simply represents a fraction of 35 one hundredths. Saying that you can't divide a number by a value expressed in % makes no more sense than saying that a number cannot be divided by one half, everyone knows what one half is, if you are asked to divide 10 by one half you will not ask "half of what?", you will give the answer as being 5. How is that different than dividing 10 by 50%? The question I posed is an example of a simple problem to be solved by converting figures expressed in percents to their true numerical values. Lotus, Excel and most calculators can do that without any fuss, the Microsoft calculator can't, it wasn't programed to do it. John
Guest Unknown Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... I know what you are saying having had several computers. Some are just different on key entry sequences. "Dragon" <noSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:%23xSyXATAIHA.5360@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >I am not sure if you are following this correctly. I know that doing >(480000*.35 or 480000/35*100) gives me the correct answer. Doing it the >other way it should give me the same answer Just like other apps and >calculators. But it does not. > > > "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message > news:iTRKi.1631$P21.180@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net... >> If you key that into the calculator it gives you the correct answer I.E. >> 480000/.35 >> "Dragon" <noSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:en0iQoSAIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> that is exactly what I was thinking. >>> >>> >>> "Stephen" <none> wrote in message >>> news:%23XZsaGSAIHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.am.invalid.domain> wrote in message >>>> news:kfknf3h9oi267e793dm5cmjv7fouvpb31r@4ax.com... >>>>> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:56:05 -0700, "Dragon" >>>>> <noSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I get what you are saying. It makes sense. Having said that, which >>>>>> one is >>>>>> wrong (Excel and $1 calculator or Win Calc)? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As far as I'm concerned,all of the above (Excel and $1 calculator or >>>>> Win Calc) are wrong. Sinner is correct. 480000 / (35%) is undefined. >>>>> It's a meaningless calculation, It's like asking how much is 48 cows >>>>> divided by 35 accordions. There is no answer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Why is 480000 / (35%) undefined? >>>> A percentage is just that: "per cent", or "for each hundred". >>>> Hence 35% = 35/100 = 0.35 >>>> So, 480000 / (35%) is the same as 480000/0.35 >>>> >>>> Stephen >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
Guest PowerUser Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... You're right. And I think I know why it doesn't work- there are 2 operations, consecutive divisions x/y/z. Any normal calculator understands it, but calc.exe is stupid and fusses about it. You cannot do more than one operation and expect a right answer. BTW did you guys see this? http://www.appscout.com/2007/09/excel_cant_multiply.php Quite ridiculous.. "Stephen" <none> wrote in message news:%23XZsaGSAIHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.am.invalid.domain> wrote in message > news:kfknf3h9oi267e793dm5cmjv7fouvpb31r@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:56:05 -0700, "Dragon" >> <noSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I get what you are saying. It makes sense. Having said that, which one >>> is >>> wrong (Excel and $1 calculator or Win Calc)? >> >> >> As far as I'm concerned,all of the above (Excel and $1 calculator or >> Win Calc) are wrong. Sinner is correct. 480000 / (35%) is undefined. >> It's a meaningless calculation, It's like asking how much is 48 cows >> divided by 35 accordions. There is no answer. >> >> > > Why is 480000 / (35%) undefined? > A percentage is just that: "per cent", or "for each hundred". > Hence 35% = 35/100 = 0.35 > So, 480000 / (35%) is the same as 480000/0.35 > > Stephen >
Guest PowerUser Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... All you guys saying this have not used calculators much. Dragon is asking why calc doesn't perform like a normal stand alone calculator. "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.am.invalid.domain> wrote in message news:kfknf3h9oi267e793dm5cmjv7fouvpb31r@4ax.com... > On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:56:05 -0700, "Dragon" > <noSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> I get what you are saying. It makes sense. Having said that, which one is >> wrong (Excel and $1 calculator or Win Calc)? > > > As far as I'm concerned,all of the above (Excel and $1 calculator or > Win Calc) are wrong. Sinner is correct. 480000 / (35%) is undefined. > It's a meaningless calculation, It's like asking how much is 48 cows > divided by 35 accordions. There is no answer. > > >> "Sinner" <sinner@gatesofhell.org> wrote in message >> news:KaCKi.104564$jH3.61007@bignews6.bellsouth.net... >> > >> > "Dragon" <noSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> > news:OaXEcGJAIHA.4752@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> >> No. I am trying to devide 480000 by 35% (480000 / (35%) or >> >> 480000/35*100. >> >> Just trying to find out if there is a bug in Win Calc. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > The problem is the logic. 36% is a ratio, 35/100*X. It isn't a real >> > number. >> > >> > 480000 can be divided by X, or 35%X, but not by 35%. >> > >> > > -- > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User > Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Guest Nightowl Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... M.I.5¾ <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote on Thu, 27 Sep 2007: > >"Nightowl" <owl@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message >> Methinks Dragon is puzzled because Calc's interpretation is different from >> his pocket calculator's and, apparently, Excel's. Calc takes >> >> 480,000 / 35% >> >> as meaning "divide 480,000 by 35% of itself" (I would, too). The pocket >> calculator thinks it means "divide 480,000 by 0.35". Mine does the same. >> > >No Calc interprets it as 'find 480000% of 35'. And it does so correctly. >The problem is that not all calculators handle a percent key the same way. If you're right about Calc's interpretation, why, at the point 168000 is shown (after keying "480000 / 35%"), does pressing the "=" key give the answer 2.85xxx, which is 480000 divided by 35% of itself? -- Nightowl
Guest Gord Dibben Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... If I divided 10 by one half I would expect the answer to be 20 Gord Dibben MS Excel MVP On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:15:17 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: >if you are asked >to divide 10 by one half you will not ask "half of what?", you will give >the answer as being 5.
Guest John John Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... Oops! There goes my math... John Gord Dibben wrote: > If I divided 10 by one half I would expect the answer to be 20 > > > Gord Dibben MS Excel MVP > > On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:15:17 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: > > >>if you are asked >>to divide 10 by one half you will not ask "half of what?", you will give >>the answer as being 5. > >
Guest M.I.5¾ Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... "Nightowl" <owl@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:cx4PJsM5hC$GFwb+@black.hole... > M.I.5¾ <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote on Thu, 27 Sep 2007: > >> >>"Nightowl" <owl@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message >>> Methinks Dragon is puzzled because Calc's interpretation is different >>> from >>> his pocket calculator's and, apparently, Excel's. Calc takes >>> >>> 480,000 / 35% >>> >>> as meaning "divide 480,000 by 35% of itself" (I would, too). The pocket >>> calculator thinks it means "divide 480,000 by 0.35". Mine does the same. >>> >> >>No Calc interprets it as 'find 480000% of 35'. And it does so correctly. >>The problem is that not all calculators handle a percent key the same way. > > If you're right about Calc's interpretation, why, at the point 168000 is > shown (after keying "480000 / 35%"), does pressing the "=" key give the > answer 2.85xxx, which is 480000 divided by 35% of itself? > If you press the = key again you will get yet another answer. This may be how Microsoft have decided their percent key will work. As I noted above, different calculators implement the % key different ways. For egg sample: for the button sequence '480000/35%' Calc gives 168,000 (a further '=' gives 2.8571428) Calc in Win CE gives 1,371,428.57 (a further '=' does nothing) The Calculator in Sun Solaris Unix gives 13714.29 - seems to have divided but ignored the '%' (a further '=' gives 1880816.33 - Not sure what that is) The Calc in Epoc32 behaves the same way as Calc in Win CE. Another calculator gives 2.8571428 (a further '=' gives 16,800,000 - which seems to be 480,000 divided by 2.87..%)
Guest Laughingstar~* Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... Listen to your "gut." "Dragon" <noSpam_baadil@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Og3qttIAIHA.320@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >I am missing some logic here, so please explain if it makes any sense to >you... > > Using Windows Calculator Press the following buttons: > > 480000 / 35% = > > And you get the result: 168000 > > When infact your result should be: 1371428.57xxxxx > > What Gives? >
Guest Tom Porterfield Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... PowerUser wrote: > I'm an engineer so I know where your coming from. The Windows Calc is the > irregular one- Even my scientific calculator can understand that you want to > divide the two and express the answer as a percentage (multiplying the > result of division my 100). There's the key. You said even your "scientific" calculator can understand. So put calc.exe in scientific mode (View->Scientific) and then try again. It should yield 13714.285714285714285714285714286. -- Tom Porterfield
Guest Tom Porterfield Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... Tom Porterfield wrote: > PowerUser wrote: >> I'm an engineer so I know where your coming from. The Windows Calc is >> the irregular one- Even my scientific calculator can understand that >> you want to divide the two and express the answer as a percentage >> (multiplying the result of division my 100). > > There's the key. You said even your "scientific" calculator can > understand. So put calc.exe in scientific mode (View->Scientific) and > then try again. It should yield 13714.285714285714285714285714286. Which still isn't right, so nevermind. -- Tom Porterfield
Guest PowerUser Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... "Tom Porterfield" <tpporter@mvps.org> wrote in message news:%23QORULfAIHA.5868@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Tom Porterfield wrote: >> PowerUser wrote: >>> I'm an engineer so I know where your coming from. The Windows Calc is >>> the irregular one- Even my scientific calculator can understand that you >>> want to divide the two and express the answer as a percentage >>> (multiplying the result of division my 100). >> >> There's the key. You said even your "scientific" calculator can >> understand. So put calc.exe in scientific mode (View->Scientific) and >> then try again. It should yield 13714.285714285714285714285714286. > > Which still isn't right, so nevermind. Right. And where did you find the % feature, cause I don't see it?! > -- > Tom Porterfield
Guest Unknown Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... Did you imagine the % sign???? "Tom Porterfield" <tpporter@mvps.org> wrote in message news:%23QORULfAIHA.5868@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Tom Porterfield wrote: >> PowerUser wrote: >>> I'm an engineer so I know where your coming from. The Windows Calc is >>> the irregular one- Even my scientific calculator can understand that you >>> want to divide the two and express the answer as a percentage >>> (multiplying the result of division my 100). >> >> There's the key. You said even your "scientific" calculator can >> understand. So put calc.exe in scientific mode (View->Scientific) and >> then try again. It should yield 13714.285714285714285714285714286. > > Which still isn't right, so nevermind. > -- > Tom Porterfield
Guest Dragon Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... I vote for $1 calc. "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message news:2UdLi.786$ih1.216@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com... > Did you imagine the % sign???? > "Tom Porterfield" <tpporter@mvps.org> wrote in message > news:%23QORULfAIHA.5868@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Tom Porterfield wrote: >>> PowerUser wrote: >>>> I'm an engineer so I know where your coming from. The Windows Calc is >>>> the irregular one- Even my scientific calculator can understand that >>>> you want to divide the two and express the answer as a percentage >>>> (multiplying the result of division my 100). >>> >>> There's the key. You said even your "scientific" calculator can >>> understand. So put calc.exe in scientific mode (View->Scientific) and >>> then try again. It should yield 13714.285714285714285714285714286. >> >> Which still isn't right, so nevermind. >> -- >> Tom Porterfield > >
Guest Tom Porterfield Posted September 29, 2007 Posted September 29, 2007 Re: Don't know how to use a calculator... PowerUser wrote: > Right. And where did you find the % feature, cause I don't see it?! It's right there on my keyboard, use SHIFT 5. Or you can copy/paste. FWIW, in Vista the result is 0. -- Tom Porterfield
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