Guest Paulo Roberto Posted June 22, 2008 Posted June 22, 2008 Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners?
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted June 22, 2008 Posted June 22, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Yes: NONE! Think your Registry needs "cleaning" or "repairing"? Read http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099 and draw your own conclusions. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ Paulo Roberto wrote: > Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners?
Guest JS Posted June 22, 2008 Posted June 22, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Not a good idea. Freeware registry cleaners can trash your PC at no cost $$$ to you. Those registry cleaner utilities that cost money are best known for cleaning your wallet and then trashing your PC. Example #1 Ran a scan to count the number of entries in my PC's registry Total was over 260,000 So if a registry cleaner (if it worked properly) removed say 1,000 entries that would be less than one half of one percent space savings. Example #2 I very recently ran a registry cleaner knowing in advance what some of the fixes the cleaner should find and the suggested changes. This was based on the fact I had uninstalled an application (knowing it would leave some orphaned registry entries) and then reinstalled the same application to a different directory location. The cleaner's default suggested fix for the application's old directory location (the orphaned entries) was to change these entries to the new location, which was not necessary, so I manually deleted these entries. Now here is where a registry cleaner could cause a real problem! A few months ago I removed a large number but not all of the $NtUninstallKBxxxxxx$ folders (these are the folders and associated files left behind each time you install the latest Windows Updates each month) The cleaner reported the broken registry entries but the suggested fix was to point the entries to remaining $NtUninstall files (on a random basis) which I had not removed (the most recent 4 months of updates/patches) thus royally screwing up the pointers. By that I mean you go to uninstall (in rare cases) a patch that may be giving you problems and due to the screwed up registry entry it instead removes the wrong patch. JS http://www.pagestart.com "Paulo Roberto" <paulo.roberto@edt.com.br> wrote in message news:ODjhS9L1IHA.1768@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? >
Guest cheley_bonstell88@live.com Posted June 22, 2008 Posted June 22, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners On Jun 22, 7:24 pm, "Paulo Roberto" <paulo.robe...@edt.com.br> wrote: > Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? http://www.ccleaner.com/ good set of shareware utilities
Guest Twayne Posted June 22, 2008 Posted June 22, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners > Yes: NONE! > > Think your Registry needs "cleaning" or "repairing"? Read > http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099 and draw your own conclusions. > > Paulo Roberto wrote: >> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? No: WRONG!
Guest Twayne Posted June 22, 2008 Posted June 22, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners > Not a good idea. > Freeware registry cleaners can trash your PC at no cost $$$ to you. > Those registry cleaner utilities that cost money are best known > for cleaning your wallet and then trashing your PC. > > Example #1 > Ran a scan to count the number of entries in my PC's registry > Total was over 260,000 > So if a registry cleaner (if it worked properly) removed say 1,000 > entries that would be less than one half of one percent space savings. > > Example #2 > I very recently ran a registry cleaner knowing in advance what some > of the fixes the cleaner should find and the suggested changes. > This was based on the fact I had uninstalled an application (knowing > it would leave some orphaned registry entries) and then reinstalled > the same application to a different directory location. > > The cleaner's default suggested fix for the application's old > directory location (the orphaned entries) was to change these entries > to the new location, which was not necessary, so I manually deleted > these entries. > Now here is where a registry cleaner could cause a real problem! > A few months ago I removed a large number but not all of the > $NtUninstallKBxxxxxx$ folders > (these are the folders and associated files left behind each time you > install the latest Windows Updates each month) > The cleaner reported the broken registry entries but the suggested > fix was to point the entries to remaining $NtUninstall files (on a > random basis) which I had not removed (the most recent 4 months of > updates/patches) thus royally screwing up the pointers. By that I > mean you go to uninstall (in rare cases) a patch that may be giving > you problems and due to the screwed up registry entry it instead > removes the wrong patch. > JS > http://www.pagestart.com > > "Paulo Roberto" <paulo.roberto@edt.com.br> wrote in message > news:ODjhS9L1IHA.1768@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? You generally alluded to whatever crappy app you used. But said nothing to answer the OP's question. Good going.
Guest Twayne Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners > Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? Someone mentioned ccleaner; it's a decent one. Beware, some of the no-names are real junk.
Guest JS Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Again: Freeware registry cleaners can trash your PC at no cost $$$ to you. Those registry cleaner utilities that cost money are best known for cleaning your wallet and then trashing your PC. Have tried freeware, shareware and paid versions, all can get you into trouble. If there are any registry fixes to be done I do it manually after creating a backup. JS "Twayne" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message news:eZkHQQM1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > >> Not a good idea. >> Freeware registry cleaners can trash your PC at no cost $$$ to you. >> Those registry cleaner utilities that cost money are best known >> for cleaning your wallet and then trashing your PC. >> >> Example #1 >> Ran a scan to count the number of entries in my PC's registry >> Total was over 260,000 >> So if a registry cleaner (if it worked properly) removed say 1,000 >> entries that would be less than one half of one percent space savings. >> >> Example #2 >> I very recently ran a registry cleaner knowing in advance what some >> of the fixes the cleaner should find and the suggested changes. >> This was based on the fact I had uninstalled an application (knowing >> it would leave some orphaned registry entries) and then reinstalled >> the same application to a different directory location. >> >> The cleaner's default suggested fix for the application's old >> directory location (the orphaned entries) was to change these entries >> to the new location, which was not necessary, so I manually deleted >> these entries. >> Now here is where a registry cleaner could cause a real problem! >> A few months ago I removed a large number but not all of the >> $NtUninstallKBxxxxxx$ folders >> (these are the folders and associated files left behind each time you >> install the latest Windows Updates each month) >> The cleaner reported the broken registry entries but the suggested >> fix was to point the entries to remaining $NtUninstall files (on a >> random basis) which I had not removed (the most recent 4 months of >> updates/patches) thus royally screwing up the pointers. By that I >> mean you go to uninstall (in rare cases) a patch that may be giving >> you problems and due to the screwed up registry entry it instead >> removes the wrong patch. >> JS >> http://www.pagestart.com >> >> "Paulo Roberto" <paulo.roberto@edt.com.br> wrote in message >> news:ODjhS9L1IHA.1768@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? > > You generally alluded to whatever crappy app you used. But said nothing > to answer the OP's question. Good going. >
Guest marx404 Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners I second CCleaner, been using it for quite awhile. There are some people here being not very nice, but they are correct that many reg cleaners can mess things up if you are not sure what you are doing and backup, backup backup. CCleaner does backup what it deletes and shows you what is being deleted before you do it. It also deletes temp files, cookies, etc. RTFM and you should be just fine. -- marx404 _________________ "Twayne" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message news:%230GMpQM1IHA.552@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? > > Someone mentioned ccleaner; it's a decent one. Beware, some of the > no-names are real junk. >
Guest milt Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Paulo Roberto wrote: > Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? > > No such thing, stay away from registry cleaners, they will do more harm than good.
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Paulo Roberto wrote: > Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? NOT a good idea (i.e., the potential to create problems is too GREAT, and it does NOTHING to speed up or really help your system). A word to the wise is sufficient...
Guest Gregory Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners CCleaner has done well for me. In its Options>Cookies one can choose cookies to lock in and allow always, such as banking and log-in cookies. Then when you clean out your cookie box, these chosen gems will not be deleted. Very helpful. -- Gregory "cheley_bonstell88@live.com" wrote: > On Jun 22, 7:24 pm, "Paulo Roberto" <paulo.robe...@edt.com.br> wrote: > > Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? > > http://www.ccleaner.com/ > > good set of shareware utilities >
Guest Twayne Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners > Again: > Freeware registry cleaners can trash your PC at no cost $$$ to you. > Those registry cleaner utilities that cost money are best known > for cleaning your wallet and then trashing your PC. > > Have tried freeware, shareware and paid versions, all can get you into > trouble. > If there are any registry fixes to be done I do it manually after > creating a backup. > > JS .... Good for you; I'll stay away from why that probably happened because it'll just piss you off and make fodder for an arguement. ANYTHING "can" and often does, trash your PC. I always have to wonder how folks with attitudes like yours can stand to install/uninstall any software at all, since the majority of it will (gasp!) make several registry changes, both additions and deletions. In fact, the registry is under constant change by the OS anyway; it's impossible to get away from it. I've tried "freeware, shareware and paid versions" too, and some can indeed get you into trouble. In fact, some are designed to get you into trouble so you'll go and pay THEM to fix it! But OTOH there are several, with good reputations and outcomes, that will not trash your machine, and ALL the decent ones these days provide way to undo the changes in case something does go wrong or the user misinterprets a message. I have NEVER had even a glitch with my chosen registry maintenance applications. The only times I've ever had problems was a couple times I made changes that had interops I wasn't aware of. But, since I'd exported those keys, it was simple enough to correct and put things back. There ARE situations where registry software won't find problems, but my chosen applications, as I said, have never let me down. I've asked for, and only found black holes, those who hype the never let a program touch your registry to back it up with proof of the damage they can do. NEVER was there any response with anything that could be verified. I on the other hand have provided such personal experiences as I had, in detail, to those same people, and guess what? All of a sudden they weren't responding anymore. The "compaly liners" and parrot-people who like to bash attitudes different from their own never have anything intelligent to say when it gets down to the nitty gritty of proving or at least showing a preponderance of evidence against any reliable registry software. You said you did a "backup" before you edited the registry? A backup of what? Your entire drive? You should already have that, if you're any good with data at all. So what are you backing up? Me, I simple create a copy of the System State. Much smaller, quicker and easier to reinstate. All my backups are automated, as should be yours, but it's easier to have a System State handy all by istelf to grab should it be needed. To date I have never needed one. Wait: That's not true. I did need a System State once when file corruption went wild on me. Restored the system state and all was well. OH well, each to his own, I guess. It just bugs me to see misinformation about things posted so often by so many people when the majority know it's not so and simply ignore the closed minds anymore. But they need to be kept covered so they don't corrupt and mislead newbies who don't have the advantage of being able to tell what's junk and what isn't. It's real unfortunate so many MVPs tout this line as well. A few of them are really good at their areas too, until someone says "registry cleaner". If you've read this far, I'll be surprised! <g> Cheers, Twayne
Guest Twayne Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners > Paulo Roberto wrote: >> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? >> >> > No such thing, stay away from registry cleaners, they will do more > harm than good. Perfect parroting there, Milt. Ever had an original thought?
Guest milt Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Twayne wrote: >> Paulo Roberto wrote: >>> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? >>> >>> >> No such thing, stay away from registry cleaners, they will do more >> harm than good. > > Perfect parroting there, Milt. Ever had an original thought? > > No parroting, just common sense.
Guest JS Posted June 23, 2008 Posted June 23, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Yep, I read it all the way to the end. So what Reg tool do you use? I'm always willing to look at another utility. JS "Twayne" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message news:OZ%23NiFY1IHA.4040@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Again: >> Freeware registry cleaners can trash your PC at no cost $$$ to you. >> Those registry cleaner utilities that cost money are best known >> for cleaning your wallet and then trashing your PC. >> >> Have tried freeware, shareware and paid versions, all can get you into >> trouble. >> If there are any registry fixes to be done I do it manually after >> creating a backup. >> >> JS > ... > Good for you; I'll stay away from why that probably happened because it'll > just piss you off and make fodder for an arguement. > > ANYTHING "can" and often does, trash your PC. > I always have to wonder how folks with attitudes like yours can stand to > install/uninstall any software at all, since the majority of it will > (gasp!) make several registry changes, both additions and deletions. In > fact, the registry is under constant change by the OS anyway; it's > impossible to get away from it. > > I've tried "freeware, shareware and paid versions" too, and some can > indeed get you into trouble. In fact, some are designed to get you into > trouble so you'll go and pay THEM to fix it! > But OTOH there are several, with good reputations and outcomes, that > will not trash your machine, and ALL the decent ones these days provide > way to undo the changes in case something does go wrong or the user > misinterprets a message. I have NEVER had even a glitch with my chosen > registry maintenance applications. > The only times I've ever had problems was a couple times I made changes > that had interops I wasn't aware of. But, since I'd exported those keys, > it was simple enough to correct and put things back. There ARE situations > where registry software won't find problems, but my chosen applications, > as I said, have never let me down. > I've asked for, and only found black holes, those who hype the never let > a program touch your registry to back it up with proof of the damage they > can do. NEVER was there any response with anything that could be > verified. I on the other hand have provided such personal experiences as > I had, in detail, to those same people, and guess what? All of a sudden > they weren't responding anymore. The "compaly liners" and parrot-people > who like to bash attitudes different from their own never have anything > intelligent to say when it gets down to the nitty gritty of proving or at > least showing a preponderance of evidence against any reliable registry > software. > > You said you did a "backup" before you edited the registry? A backup of > what? Your entire drive? You should already have that, if you're any > good with data at all. So what are you backing up? > Me, I simple create a copy of the System State. Much smaller, quicker > and easier to reinstate. All my backups are automated, as should be > yours, but it's easier to have a System State handy all by istelf to grab > should it be needed. To date I have never needed one. Wait: That's not > true. I did need a System State once when file corruption went wild on > me. Restored the system state and all was well. > > OH well, each to his own, I guess. It just bugs me to see misinformation > about things posted so often by so many people when the majority know it's > not so and simply ignore the closed minds anymore. But they need to be > kept covered so they don't corrupt and mislead newbies who don't have the > advantage of being able to tell what's junk and what isn't. It's real > unfortunate so many MVPs tout this line as well. A few of them are really > good at their areas too, until someone says "registry cleaner". > > > If you've read this far, I'll be surprised! <g> > > Cheers, > > Twayne > >
Guest Bruce Chambers Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Paulo Roberto wrote: > Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? > > There is no such thing as a "good" registry cleaner, free or otherwise. Why do you even think you'd ever need to clean your registry? What specific *problems* are you actually experiencing (not some program's bogus listing of imaginary problems) that you think can be fixed by using a registry "cleaner?" If you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would be far better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the specific key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. After all, why use a chainsaw when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally, the manually changing of one or two registry entries is far less likely to have the dire consequences of allowing an automated product to make wide-spread multiple changes simultaneously. The only thing needed to safely clean your registry is knowledge and Regedit.exe. The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of each and every change. Having repeatedly seen the results of inexperienced people using automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all. Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands of the inexperienced user. If you lack the knowledge and experience to maintain your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and experience to safely configure and use any automated registry "cleaner," no matter how safe they claim to be. More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained, inexperienced computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's certainly been no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use of such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's performance or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not worth the risk. Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there. And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the non-existent benefits. I will concede that a good registry *scanning* tool, in the hands of an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a useful time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to make any changes automatically. But I really don't think that there are any registry "cleaners" that are truly safe for the general public to use. Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools simply are not safe in the hands of the inexperienced user. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot
Guest Bruce Chambers Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners cheley_bonstell88@live.com wrote: > On Jun 22, 7:24 pm, "Paulo Roberto" <paulo.robe...@edt.com.br> wrote: >> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? > > http://www.ccleaner.com/ > > good set of shareware utilities CCleaner's registry scanner seems relatively benign, as long as you step through each detected "issue" one at a time, to determine if it really is an "issue" or not, and then decide whether or not to let the application "fix" it. In my testing, though, most of the reported "issues" won't be issues, at all. I tried the latest version on a brand-new OS installation with no additional applications installed, and certainly none installed and then uninstalled, and CCleaner still managed to "find" over a hundred allegedly orphaned registry entries and dozens of purportedly "suspicious" files, making it clearly a *worthless* product, in this regard. (Not that any registry cleaner can ever be anything but worthless, as they don't serve any useful purpose, to start with.) CCleaner's only real strength, and the only reason I use it, lies in its usefulness for cleaning up unused temporary files from the hard drive; as a registry "cleaner," it's not significantly better or worse than any other snake oil product of the same type. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot
Guest Bruce Chambers Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Twayne wrote: >> Paulo Roberto wrote: >>> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? >>> >>> >> No such thing, stay away from registry cleaners, they will do more >> harm than good. > > Perfect parroting there, Milt. Ever had an original thought? > > At least he's "parroting" a correct thought, rather than mindlessly recommending snake oil, as you did. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot
Guest Twayne Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners > Twayne wrote: >>> Paulo Roberto wrote: >>>> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? >>>> >>>> >>> No such thing, stay away from registry cleaners, they will do more >>> harm than good. >> >> Perfect parroting there, Milt. Ever had an original thought? >> >> > > > At least he's "parroting" a correct thought, rather than mindlessly > recommending snake oil, as you did. Spoken like a true, closed-minded zealot. Back up your claims and prove me wrong, or get off the pot. Make it clear WHY you say what you do and and use something other than "I tried them all and ... " crap. I have decades of use/experience and occasional research behind me; something you obviously do not or you'd trot it out to recover at least some modicum of credibility for your reputation over making the sweeping claims you tend to issue. It makes everything you say suspect touting the silly line you do over registry apps. You're just parroting too, I'm afraid.
Guest Twayne Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners > Yep, I read it all the way to the end. > So what Reg tool do you use? > I'm always willing to look at another utility. > > JS I use SystemWorks (sans GoBack) on this machine, ccleaner on the other two. My confidence in both is high, with nary a problem, ever. There are others but I can't find my list right now; those are the ones I'm currently using. > > "Twayne" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message > news:OZ%23NiFY1IHA.4040@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> Again: >>> Freeware registry cleaners can trash your PC at no cost $$$ to you. >>> Those registry cleaner utilities that cost money are best known >>> for cleaning your wallet and then trashing your PC. >>> >>> Have tried freeware, shareware and paid versions, all can get you >>> into trouble. >>> If there are any registry fixes to be done I do it manually after >>> creating a backup. >>> >>> JS >> ... >> Good for you; I'll stay away from why that probably happened because >> it'll just piss you off and make fodder for an arguement. >> >> ANYTHING "can" and often does, trash your PC. >> I always have to wonder how folks with attitudes like yours can >> stand to install/uninstall any software at all, since the majority >> of it will (gasp!) make several registry changes, both additions and >> deletions. In fact, the registry is under constant change by the OS >> anyway; it's impossible to get away from it. >> >> I've tried "freeware, shareware and paid versions" too, and some can >> indeed get you into trouble. In fact, some are designed to get you >> into trouble so you'll go and pay THEM to fix it! >> But OTOH there are several, with good reputations and outcomes, >> that will not trash your machine, and ALL the decent ones these days >> provide way to undo the changes in case something does go wrong or >> the user misinterprets a message. I have NEVER had even a glitch >> with my chosen registry maintenance applications. >> The only times I've ever had problems was a couple times I made >> changes that had interops I wasn't aware of. But, since I'd >> exported those keys, it was simple enough to correct and put things >> back. There ARE situations where registry software won't find >> problems, but my chosen applications, as I said, have never let me >> down. I've asked for, and only found black holes, those who hype >> the never let a program touch your registry to back it up with proof >> of the damage they can do. NEVER was there any response with >> anything that could be verified. I on the other hand have provided >> such personal experiences as I had, in detail, to those same people, >> and guess what? All of a sudden they weren't responding anymore. The >> "compaly liners" and parrot-people who like to bash attitudes >> different from their own never have anything intelligent to say when >> it gets down to the nitty gritty of proving or at least showing a >> preponderance of evidence against any reliable registry software. >> >> You said you did a "backup" before you edited the registry? A >> backup of what? Your entire drive? You should already have that, >> if you're any good with data at all. So what are you backing up? >> Me, I simple create a copy of the System State. Much smaller, >> quicker and easier to reinstate. All my backups are automated, as >> should be yours, but it's easier to have a System State handy all by >> istelf to grab should it be needed. To date I have never needed >> one. Wait: That's not true. I did need a System State once when >> file corruption went wild on me. Restored the system state and all >> was well. OH well, each to his own, I guess. It just bugs me to see >> misinformation about things posted so often by so many people when >> the majority know it's not so and simply ignore the closed minds >> anymore. But they need to be kept covered so they don't corrupt and >> mislead newbies who don't have the advantage of being able to tell >> what's junk and what isn't. It's real unfortunate so many MVPs tout >> this line as well. A few of them are really good at their areas >> too, until someone says "registry cleaner". If you've read this far, >> I'll be surprised! <g> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Twayne
Guest Twayne Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners > Paulo Roberto wrote: >> Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? >> >> > > > There is no such thing as a "good" registry cleaner, free or > otherwise. Lie. > > Why do you even think you'd ever need to clean your registry? What > specific *problems* are you actually experiencing (not some program's > bogus listing of imaginary problems) that you think can be fixed by > using a registry "cleaner?" Let's see, problems I've experienced that I thought I could use it for: -- Calling for a file that doesn't exist. Reinstalling the app didn't fix it; couldn't tell for sure what app it was. Norton found and removed the entries in about 30 seconds, advising me to remove, look for the target, or ignore it. I let Norton decide; it removed the entry; all fine afterwards. -- system message of registry corruption after a virus on neighbor's computer. Norton found many errors; I let it fix automatically. It did; everything fine afterwards, ALL apps worked, never a problem from it. -- Uninstall of my own Office app apparently failed; registry error messages appeared afterwards. Used Norton; removed rest, and all worked. -- registry complained of files it couldn't find. None of them existed anymore. Norton removed the references in seconds. -- on an unpredictably pausing machine, I ran their Norton out of frustration; fixed the problem. Later turned out user had exported/imported registry several times playing with regedit. Regained noticeable amount of drive space on a small drive, noticeably improved the intermittant, unpredicatable pauses, shortened boot time, fixed inability to shut down. I think this was a win98 machine. Norton SystemWorks also does a better disk clean than XP, has a better Defrag that, with proper use, noticeably extends time between defrag needs, beats tweakUI, included AV, GoBack, a restore/recovery program that saved my butt a few times before I got imaging software, and much more. It also let me undo anything I've done if I by chance remove something I wanted, or if I went back in time and wanted to bring a recent install along with me. I could actually sit down and create a pretty detailed list but since I've already done that once long ago, when challenged, and after which all the closed minds became black holes for awhile, I'm not about to do it again. Anything YOU can do, well written software can do faster, more accuratetly, and better. > > If you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would > be far better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the > specific key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. After > all, why use a chainsaw when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally, > the manually changing of one or two registry entries is far less > likely to have the dire consequences of allowing an automated product > to make > wide-spread multiple changes simultaneously. The only thing needed to > safely clean your registry is knowledge and Regedit.exe. You left out the learning curve for managing the registry that way, plus the fact that it isn't necessary to edit EVERY instance of something in the registry to get rid of it. What you've omitted with this advice is something much more important w/r to damaging a machine than is a registry cleaner with Undo capabilities, which nearly all of them have these days. This, IMO is the equivalent of lying by omission. What would you rather have fiddle with a registry? A cleaner that can undo its changes at a button click, or the newbie you told to hack his registry and now he's facing a rebuild? ..> Having repeatedly seen the results of inexperienced people using > automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most > experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all. That's so stupid it's pathetic. Common sense is required, but nothing near the expertise you indicate which, BTW, IS much more required if one decides to hack his registry. > Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the > hands of the inexperienced user. If you lack the knowledge and > experience to maintain your registry by yourself, then you also lack > the knowledge and experience to safely configure and use any > automated registry "cleaner," no matter how safe they claim to be. Again, stupid. > > More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an > automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained, > inexperienced computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's > certainly been no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the > use of such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's > performance or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not > worth the risk. I did that, several years ago now. Go look in your archives; it's there if you had half a brain. > > Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and > every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there. And it's also there every time you install a program, often while you use the program, and when you uninstall the program unless it's written in VB6 or the like, and then it leaves registry changes up to the OS. The opportunity for a problem is only slightly higher than installing new software, and that includes MS's own apps. "Stuff happens", so ... it's not exactly rocket science. Your experience sometimes sounds like it comes from pre-windows days. > And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any > good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's > no real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo > effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the > non-existent benefits. And you're wrong. I'll admit they get used for no good reason a lot, but ... reputable apps simply do not do what you claim. And BTW there are some medicinal advantages to hot chicken soup; but it's technical so you probably wouldn't understand it. > > I will concede that a good registry *scanning* tool, in the hands > of an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a > useful time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to > make any changes automatically. But I really don't think that there > are any registry "cleaners" that are truly safe for the general > public to use. Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools > simply are not safe in the hands of the inexperienced user. Well, your experience is either outdated, old or both. And certainly they have to cause a LOT fewer problems than your constant advice to manually edit the registry, over and over, without proper safeguards. And if you do mention the safeguards, you've moved the possibilities out of the hands of anyone less than advanced level, which is why the person asked about registry apps in the first place. So you end up in circles. I had planned to give you links to a couple of white papers and detailed tests of "cleaners" but I'm sure your closed mind won't allow you to follow them so I'll leave it to you to do your own research if you're so inclined. It wouldn't hurt to get new boilerplate, too; except for the last para, you haven't changed your faux mantra in a long long time. Open your eyes.
Guest Twayne Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners .... I tried the latest version on a > brand-new OS installation with no additional applications installed, > and certainly none installed and then uninstalled, and CCleaner still > managed to "find" over a hundred allegedly orphaned registry entries > and dozens of purportedly "suspicious" files, making it clearly a > *worthless* product, in this regard. .... Umm, that's typical of a new OS. That's MS's "In case he wants this someday I'll leave this too, oh, and this, and that, and he might want to ... . Even MS admits that. But what you fail to mention is that removing those entries (and even deleting the folders put in "just in case", did NOT cause any problems, nor did it have any impact at all on the system. The cleaner did exactly what it was designed to do: It looked, found a reference to whatever, discovered whatever didn't exist, and offers a fix for it. It's not necessary, but one of the first things I used to do with a new install was to go in and get rid of the mess of folders and files I could tell I didn't want/need (comm progs, massive amounts of temp files from the install, etc.) and then clean the registry so it matched what was on the drive. You know, the methodology of a "registry cleaner" isn't rocket science. If you'll look and see what they do, it's pretty straight forward stuff. Even a newbie could understand it, even if they couldn't work their way through the maze and heirarchy of the sections. Oversimplifyng it, a registry cleaner looks at what the registry wants, and then looks to see if it's available. If it's not, it's an error report. That's really about all there is to it. Even a newbie like me could write an app to clean the reigistry for probably over 80% of what they do, with VB6. Are you even aware that some parts of the registry do't even exist until you boot the machine? They're built on the fly at every boot. > > CCleaner's only real strength, and the only reason I use it, lies > in its usefulness for cleaning up unused temporary files from the hard > drive; as a registry "cleaner," it's not significantly better or worse > than any other snake oil product of the same type. That's not much of a strength since XP can do that natively. Just schedule it and forget it, along with a couple other niceties. OH well. I hope someday you'll educate yourself and open your eyes.
Guest John John (MVP) Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners Twayne wrote: >>Twayne wrote: >> >>>>Paulo Roberto wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hi, can you recommend good free windows xp registry cleaners? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>No such thing, stay away from registry cleaners, they will do more >>>>harm than good. >>> >>>Perfect parroting there, Milt. Ever had an original thought? >>> >>> >> >> >>At least he's "parroting" a correct thought, rather than mindlessly >>recommending snake oil, as you did. > > > Spoken like a true, closed-minded zealot. Back up your claims and prove > me wrong, or get off the pot. Make it clear WHY you say what you do and > and use something other than "I tried them all and ... " crap. > I have decades of use/experience and occasional research behind me; > something you obviously do not or you'd trot it out to recover at least > some modicum of credibility for your reputation over making the sweeping > claims you tend to issue. It makes everything you say suspect touting > the silly line you do over registry apps. You're just parroting too, > I'm afraid. He's not parroting, he too is just telling the truth. Ever turn the argument around and think for a minute that *you* might be the one doing the "parroting"? The plain and simple fact is that registry cleaning for no good reason does absolutely nothing to improve your computer performance and that wholesale registry cleaning done by those applications provide absolutely no useful benefits, it only introduce a risk of failure in your computing environment. If you have nothing better to do than running registry cleaners you may as well take a break from your computer and go in the attic to clean out the cobwebs and risk falling through the ceiling and breaking your neck... which is a pretty close comparison to what benefits cleaning the registry will give you. John
Guest JS Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Re: XP registry cleaners I have the 2006 version of System Works with Ghost. The best part of System Works is it ability to put registry issues into groups and the option to choose each key and what is to be done to repair it. JS "Twayne" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message news:uwZR6sf1IHA.3884@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Yep, I read it all the way to the end. >> So what Reg tool do you use? >> I'm always willing to look at another utility. >> >> JS > > I use SystemWorks (sans GoBack) on this machine, ccleaner on the other > two. My confidence in both is high, with nary a problem, ever. There are > others but I can't find my list right now; those are the ones I'm > currently using. > > > >> >> "Twayne" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message >> news:OZ%23NiFY1IHA.4040@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> Again: >>>> Freeware registry cleaners can trash your PC at no cost $$$ to you. >>>> Those registry cleaner utilities that cost money are best known >>>> for cleaning your wallet and then trashing your PC. >>>> >>>> Have tried freeware, shareware and paid versions, all can get you >>>> into trouble. >>>> If there are any registry fixes to be done I do it manually after >>>> creating a backup. >>>> >>>> JS >>> ... >>> Good for you; I'll stay away from why that probably happened because >>> it'll just piss you off and make fodder for an arguement. >>> >>> ANYTHING "can" and often does, trash your PC. >>> I always have to wonder how folks with attitudes like yours can >>> stand to install/uninstall any software at all, since the majority >>> of it will (gasp!) make several registry changes, both additions and >>> deletions. In fact, the registry is under constant change by the OS >>> anyway; it's impossible to get away from it. >>> >>> I've tried "freeware, shareware and paid versions" too, and some can >>> indeed get you into trouble. In fact, some are designed to get you >>> into trouble so you'll go and pay THEM to fix it! >>> But OTOH there are several, with good reputations and outcomes, >>> that will not trash your machine, and ALL the decent ones these days >>> provide way to undo the changes in case something does go wrong or >>> the user misinterprets a message. I have NEVER had even a glitch >>> with my chosen registry maintenance applications. >>> The only times I've ever had problems was a couple times I made >>> changes that had interops I wasn't aware of. But, since I'd >>> exported those keys, it was simple enough to correct and put things >>> back. There ARE situations where registry software won't find >>> problems, but my chosen applications, as I said, have never let me >>> down. I've asked for, and only found black holes, those who hype >>> the never let a program touch your registry to back it up with proof >>> of the damage they can do. NEVER was there any response with >>> anything that could be verified. I on the other hand have provided >>> such personal experiences as I had, in detail, to those same people, >>> and guess what? All of a sudden they weren't responding anymore. The >>> "compaly liners" and parrot-people who like to bash attitudes >>> different from their own never have anything intelligent to say when >>> it gets down to the nitty gritty of proving or at least showing a >>> preponderance of evidence against any reliable registry software. >>> >>> You said you did a "backup" before you edited the registry? A >>> backup of what? Your entire drive? You should already have that, >>> if you're any good with data at all. So what are you backing up? >>> Me, I simple create a copy of the System State. Much smaller, >>> quicker and easier to reinstate. All my backups are automated, as >>> should be yours, but it's easier to have a System State handy all by >>> istelf to grab should it be needed. To date I have never needed >>> one. Wait: That's not true. I did need a System State once when >>> file corruption went wild on me. Restored the system state and all >>> was well. OH well, each to his own, I guess. It just bugs me to see >>> misinformation about things posted so often by so many people when >>> the majority know it's not so and simply ignore the closed minds >>> anymore. But they need to be kept covered so they don't corrupt and >>> mislead newbies who don't have the advantage of being able to tell >>> what's junk and what isn't. It's real unfortunate so many MVPs tout >>> this line as well. A few of them are really good at their areas >>> too, until someone says "registry cleaner". If you've read this far, >>> I'll be surprised! <g> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Twayne > > >
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