Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard contents, just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is RAM) Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't hold something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a different issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed held in RAM). The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether (being known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). Gary S. Terhune wrote: > Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment in this > thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They are NOT the > same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the Clipboard contents are > occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the hard > drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. > > -- > Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User > http://grystmill.com > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the hard drive >> (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or whatever) IS >> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory here, since we >> can't write into that). >> >> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the Clipboard, >>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that doesn't mean >>> it's >>> staying in RAM. >>> >>> -- >>> Gary S. Terhune >>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>> http://grystmill.com >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're getting >>>>>> at): >>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to store it >>>>>> for >>>>>> immediate access >>>>> >>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, the >>>>> opposite. >>>>> I >>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any higher >>>>> priority >>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out with no >>>>> problem. >>>> >>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the clipboard, >>>> the >>>> clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of course. >>>> And >>>> usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used to hold that image. >>>> >>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you can >>>>>> always >>>>>> do >>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, and that >>>>>> will >>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear clipboard >>>>>> utility >>>>>> mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to this all that >>>>>> often, >>>>>> in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>> >>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" in a >>>>> healthy >>>>> Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>> >>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've read it.) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. Simply >>>>>>> reading >>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message to him >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on the face >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> it, >>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into the >>>>>>>>> clipboard >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved chunk of >>>>>>>>> memory is? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves it in my >>>>>>>>>>> clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the file it still >>>>>>>>>>> stays >>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this happen, and >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>> I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't matter >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> is in >>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it wouldn't >>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard You're wrong. The clipboard is held in memory, which may be RAM or may be the swap/page file(s). Saying that the Clipboard is stored in RAM is a false statement ("not always true" equals "false".) It's a matter of terminology and terminology is important. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:ue7U8%2311IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard contents, > just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is RAM) > > Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't hold > something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a different > issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose > contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed held in > RAM). > > The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether (being > known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). > > Gary S. Terhune wrote: >> Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment in this >> thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They are NOT the >> same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the Clipboard contents are >> occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the hard >> drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. >> >> -- >> Gary S. Terhune >> MS-MVP Shell/User >> http://grystmill.com >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the hard drive >>> (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or whatever) IS >>> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory here, since we >>> can't write into that). >>> >>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the Clipboard, >>>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that doesn't mean >>>> it's >>>> staying in RAM. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>> http://grystmill.com >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're getting >>>>>>> at): >>>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to store it >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> immediate access >>>>>> >>>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, the >>>>>> opposite. >>>>>> I >>>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any higher >>>>>> priority >>>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out with >>>>>> no >>>>>> problem. >>>>> >>>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the clipboard, >>>>> the >>>>> clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of course. >>>>> And >>>>> usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used to hold that image. >>>>> >>>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you can >>>>>>> always >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, and that >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear clipboard >>>>>>> utility >>>>>>> mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to this all that >>>>>>> often, >>>>>>> in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" in a >>>>>> healthy >>>>>> Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've read >>>>>> it.) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. Simply >>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message to him >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on the face >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into the >>>>>>>>>> clipboard >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved chunk of >>>>>>>>>> memory is? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves it in my >>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the file it still >>>>>>>>>>>> stays >>>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this happen, and >>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>> I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't matter >>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>> is in >>>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it wouldn't >>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard The clipboard contents can or may be held in the swap file? Then I guess we have different definitions of clipboard. Like, for example, when copying and pasting files, the clipboard is only holding pointers to the actual data, not the actual data itself (the files being copied). Maybe that's an example of what you're getting at (I'm not sure) Gary S. Terhune wrote: > You're wrong. The clipboard is held in memory, which may be RAM or may be > the swap/page file(s). Saying that the Clipboard is stored in RAM is a > false > statement ("not always true" equals "false".) It's a matter of terminology > and terminology is important. > > -- > Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User > http://grystmill.com > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:ue7U8%2311IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard contents, >> just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is RAM) >> >> Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't hold >> something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a different >> issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose >> contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed held in >> RAM). >> >> The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether >> (being >> known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). >> >> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>> Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment in >>> this >>> thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They are NOT >>> the >>> same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the Clipboard contents >>> are >>> occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the hard >>> drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. >>> >>> -- >>> Gary S. Terhune >>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>> http://grystmill.com >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the hard >>>> drive >>>> (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or whatever) >>>> IS >>>> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory here, since >>>> we >>>> can't write into that). >>>> >>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the Clipboard, >>>>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that doesn't >>>>> mean >>>>> it's >>>>> staying in RAM. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're getting >>>>>>>> at): >>>>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to store it >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> immediate access >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, the >>>>>>> opposite. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any higher >>>>>>> priority >>>>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out with >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the >>>>>> clipboard, >>>>>> the >>>>>> clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of course. >>>>>> And >>>>>> usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used to hold that >>>>>> image. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you can >>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, and that >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear clipboard >>>>>>>> utility >>>>>>>> mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to this all that >>>>>>>> often, >>>>>>>> in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" in a >>>>>>> healthy >>>>>>> Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've read >>>>>>> it.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. Simply >>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message to him >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on the face >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into the >>>>>>>>>>> clipboard >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved chunk >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> memory is? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves it in >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the file it still >>>>>>>>>>>>> stays >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this happen, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>> I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't matter >>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> is in >>>>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it wouldn't >>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard I can copy that entire 2GB bitmap to memory, then erase the file altogether, and then paste the bitmap into a new file. The data is held in the Clipboard. I can Copy any file, delete it, even defrag for good measure, and then Paste it back to the hard drive. No, what goes onto the clipboard aren't pointers, they're the data themselves. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:%239d8Xp71IHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > The clipboard contents can or may be held in the swap file? Then I guess > we have different definitions of clipboard. Like, for example, when > copying and pasting files, the clipboard is only holding pointers to the > actual data, not the actual data itself (the files being copied). Maybe > that's an example of what you're getting at (I'm not sure) > > Gary S. Terhune wrote: >> You're wrong. The clipboard is held in memory, which may be RAM or may be >> the swap/page file(s). Saying that the Clipboard is stored in RAM is a >> false >> statement ("not always true" equals "false".) It's a matter of >> terminology >> and terminology is important. >> >> -- >> Gary S. Terhune >> MS-MVP Shell/User >> http://grystmill.com >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:ue7U8%2311IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard >>> contents, >>> just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is RAM) >>> >>> Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't hold >>> something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a different >>> issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose >>> contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed held in >>> RAM). >>> >>> The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether >>> (being >>> known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). >>> >>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>> Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment in >>>> this >>>> thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They are NOT >>>> the >>>> same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the Clipboard contents >>>> are >>>> occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the hard >>>> drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>> http://grystmill.com >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the hard >>>>> drive >>>>> (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or whatever) >>>>> IS >>>>> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory here, since >>>>> we >>>>> can't write into that). >>>>> >>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the >>>>>> Clipboard, >>>>>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that doesn't >>>>>> mean >>>>>> it's >>>>>> staying in RAM. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're getting >>>>>>>>> at): >>>>>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to store >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> immediate access >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, the >>>>>>>> opposite. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any higher >>>>>>>> priority >>>>>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out with >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>>>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the >>>>>>> clipboard, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of course. >>>>>>> And >>>>>>> usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used to hold that >>>>>>> image. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you can >>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, and >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear clipboard >>>>>>>>> utility >>>>>>>>> mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to this all that >>>>>>>>> often, >>>>>>>>> in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" in a >>>>>>>> healthy >>>>>>>> Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've read >>>>>>>> it.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. Simply >>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message to >>>>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on the >>>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into the >>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved chunk >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> memory is? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves it in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the file it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stays >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this happen, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> is in >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it >>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico > >
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard My mistake, you're right about pointers being used for file Cut/Copy/Paste/Move, but when it comes to data itself, text, bitmap, whatever, I'm right. The data is actually copied to the clipboard. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:%239d8Xp71IHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > The clipboard contents can or may be held in the swap file? Then I guess > we have different definitions of clipboard. Like, for example, when > copying and pasting files, the clipboard is only holding pointers to the > actual data, not the actual data itself (the files being copied). Maybe > that's an example of what you're getting at (I'm not sure) > > Gary S. Terhune wrote: >> You're wrong. The clipboard is held in memory, which may be RAM or may be >> the swap/page file(s). Saying that the Clipboard is stored in RAM is a >> false >> statement ("not always true" equals "false".) It's a matter of >> terminology >> and terminology is important. >> >> -- >> Gary S. Terhune >> MS-MVP Shell/User >> http://grystmill.com >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:ue7U8%2311IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard >>> contents, >>> just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is RAM) >>> >>> Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't hold >>> something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a different >>> issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose >>> contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed held in >>> RAM). >>> >>> The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether >>> (being >>> known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). >>> >>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>> Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment in >>>> this >>>> thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They are NOT >>>> the >>>> same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the Clipboard contents >>>> are >>>> occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the hard >>>> drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>> http://grystmill.com >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the hard >>>>> drive >>>>> (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or whatever) >>>>> IS >>>>> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory here, since >>>>> we >>>>> can't write into that). >>>>> >>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the >>>>>> Clipboard, >>>>>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that doesn't >>>>>> mean >>>>>> it's >>>>>> staying in RAM. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're getting >>>>>>>>> at): >>>>>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to store >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> immediate access >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, the >>>>>>>> opposite. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any higher >>>>>>>> priority >>>>>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out with >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>>>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the >>>>>>> clipboard, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of course. >>>>>>> And >>>>>>> usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used to hold that >>>>>>> image. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you can >>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, and >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear clipboard >>>>>>>>> utility >>>>>>>>> mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to this all that >>>>>>>>> often, >>>>>>>>> in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" in a >>>>>>>> healthy >>>>>>>> Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've read >>>>>>>> it.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. Simply >>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message to >>>>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on the >>>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into the >>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved chunk >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> memory is? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves it in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the file it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stays >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this happen, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> is in >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it >>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard Gary S. Terhune wrote: > My mistake, you're right about pointers being used for file > Cut/Copy/Paste/Move, but when it comes to data itself, text, bitmap, > whatever, I'm right. The data is actually copied to the clipboard. Almost right, but not quite: Those clipboard contents (text, bitmaps, images) ARE stored in RAM (the clipboard), and NOT in virtual memory on the disk - which is what I said. The contents of the clipboard are stored in RAM memory. > -- > Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User > http://grystmill.com > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:%239d8Xp71IHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> The clipboard contents can or may be held in the swap file? Then I >> guess >> we have different definitions of clipboard. Like, for example, when >> copying and pasting files, the clipboard is only holding pointers to the >> actual data, not the actual data itself (the files being copied). Maybe >> that's an example of what you're getting at (I'm not sure) >> >> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>> You're wrong. The clipboard is held in memory, which may be RAM or may >>> be >>> the swap/page file(s). Saying that the Clipboard is stored in RAM is a >>> false >>> statement ("not always true" equals "false".) It's a matter of >>> terminology >>> and terminology is important. >>> >>> -- >>> Gary S. Terhune >>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>> http://grystmill.com >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:ue7U8%2311IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard >>>> contents, >>>> just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is RAM) >>>> >>>> Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't hold >>>> something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a different >>>> issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose >>>> contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed held >>>> in >>>> RAM). >>>> >>>> The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether >>>> (being >>>> known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). >>>> >>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>> Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment in >>>>> this >>>>> thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They are NOT >>>>> the >>>>> same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the Clipboard contents >>>>> are >>>>> occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the hard >>>>> drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the hard >>>>>> drive >>>>>> (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or whatever) >>>>>> IS >>>>>> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory here, since >>>>>> we >>>>>> can't write into that). >>>>>> >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the >>>>>>> Clipboard, >>>>>>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that doesn't >>>>>>> mean >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> staying in RAM. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're >>>>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>>>> at): >>>>>>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to store >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> immediate access >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, the >>>>>>>>> opposite. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any higher >>>>>>>>> priority >>>>>>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>>>>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the >>>>>>>> clipboard, >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of course. >>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>> usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used to hold that >>>>>>>> image. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you can >>>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, and >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear clipboard >>>>>>>>>> utility >>>>>>>>>> mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to this all that >>>>>>>>>> often, >>>>>>>>>> in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" in a >>>>>>>>> healthy >>>>>>>>> Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>>>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've read >>>>>>>>> it.) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. >>>>>>>>>>> Simply >>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message to >>>>>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on the >>>>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into the >>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved chunk >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> memory is? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves it in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the file it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stays >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this happen, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard OK, you have documentation for this? That the contents of the Clipboard are a special case that cannot be swapped out? Makes no sense to me but it will take a bit to test my own ideas thoroughly on a Win98 machine. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:%23Jl5%231A2IHA.5472@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Gary S. Terhune wrote: >> My mistake, you're right about pointers being used for file >> Cut/Copy/Paste/Move, but when it comes to data itself, text, bitmap, >> whatever, I'm right. The data is actually copied to the clipboard. > > Almost right, but not quite: > Those clipboard contents (text, bitmaps, images) ARE stored in RAM (the > clipboard), and NOT in virtual memory on the disk - which is what I said. > The contents of the clipboard are stored in RAM memory. > >> -- >> Gary S. Terhune >> MS-MVP Shell/User >> http://grystmill.com >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:%239d8Xp71IHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> The clipboard contents can or may be held in the swap file? Then I >>> guess >>> we have different definitions of clipboard. Like, for example, when >>> copying and pasting files, the clipboard is only holding pointers to the >>> actual data, not the actual data itself (the files being copied). >>> Maybe >>> that's an example of what you're getting at (I'm not sure) >>> >>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>> You're wrong. The clipboard is held in memory, which may be RAM or may >>>> be >>>> the swap/page file(s). Saying that the Clipboard is stored in RAM is a >>>> false >>>> statement ("not always true" equals "false".) It's a matter of >>>> terminology >>>> and terminology is important. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>> http://grystmill.com >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:ue7U8%2311IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>> Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard >>>>> contents, >>>>> just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is RAM) >>>>> >>>>> Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't >>>>> hold >>>>> something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a different >>>>> issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose >>>>> contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed held >>>>> in >>>>> RAM). >>>>> >>>>> The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether >>>>> (being >>>>> known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). >>>>> >>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>> Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment in >>>>>> this >>>>>> thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They are NOT >>>>>> the >>>>>> same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the Clipboard contents >>>>>> are >>>>>> occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the >>>>>> hard >>>>>> drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the hard >>>>>>> drive >>>>>>> (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or >>>>>>> whatever) >>>>>>> IS >>>>>>> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory here, >>>>>>> since >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> can't write into that). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the >>>>>>>> Clipboard, >>>>>>>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that doesn't >>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>> staying in RAM. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're >>>>>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>>>>> at): >>>>>>>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to store >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> immediate access >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, the >>>>>>>>>> opposite. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any higher >>>>>>>>>> priority >>>>>>>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>>>>>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the >>>>>>>>> clipboard, >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of >>>>>>>>> course. >>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>> usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used to hold that >>>>>>>>> image. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you can >>>>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, and >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear clipboard >>>>>>>>>>> utility >>>>>>>>>>> mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to this all >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> often, >>>>>>>>>>> in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> healthy >>>>>>>>>> Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>>>>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've read >>>>>>>>>> it.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> Simply >>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message to >>>>>>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on the >>>>>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chunk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> memory is? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the file it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stays >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this happen, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard At my fingertips? Nope. But go ahead and test it out. However, proving that *actual contents* of the *clipboard*, per se, are actually being swapped out (and I don't mean pointer or address references in the clipboard here, I mean the actual concrete data, NOT links to data), will be interesting. Gary S. Terhune wrote: > OK, you have documentation for this? That the contents of the Clipboard > are > a special case that cannot be swapped out? Makes no sense to me but it > will > take a bit to test my own ideas thoroughly on a Win98 machine. > > -- > Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User > http://grystmill.com > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:%23Jl5%231A2IHA.5472@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>> My mistake, you're right about pointers being used for file >>> Cut/Copy/Paste/Move, but when it comes to data itself, text, bitmap, >>> whatever, I'm right. The data is actually copied to the clipboard. >> >> Almost right, but not quite: >> Those clipboard contents (text, bitmaps, images) ARE stored in RAM (the >> clipboard), and NOT in virtual memory on the disk - which is what I said. >> The contents of the clipboard are stored in RAM memory. >> >>> -- >>> Gary S. Terhune >>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>> http://grystmill.com >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:%239d8Xp71IHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> The clipboard contents can or may be held in the swap file? Then I >>>> guess >>>> we have different definitions of clipboard. Like, for example, when >>>> copying and pasting files, the clipboard is only holding pointers to >>>> the >>>> actual data, not the actual data itself (the files being copied). >>>> Maybe >>>> that's an example of what you're getting at (I'm not sure) >>>> >>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>> You're wrong. The clipboard is held in memory, which may be RAM or may >>>>> be >>>>> the swap/page file(s). Saying that the Clipboard is stored in RAM is a >>>>> false >>>>> statement ("not always true" equals "false".) It's a matter of >>>>> terminology >>>>> and terminology is important. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:ue7U8%2311IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard >>>>>> contents, >>>>>> just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is >>>>>> RAM) >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't >>>>>> hold >>>>>> something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a different >>>>>> issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose >>>>>> contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed held >>>>>> in >>>>>> RAM). >>>>>> >>>>>> The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether >>>>>> (being >>>>>> known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). >>>>>> >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>> Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment in >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They are >>>>>>> NOT >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the Clipboard >>>>>>> contents >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the >>>>>>> hard >>>>>>> drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the hard >>>>>>>> drive >>>>>>>> (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or >>>>>>>> whatever) >>>>>>>> IS >>>>>>>> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory here, >>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> can't write into that). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the >>>>>>>>> Clipboard, >>>>>>>>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that doesn't >>>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>> staying in RAM. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're >>>>>>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>>>>>> at): >>>>>>>>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to >>>>>>>>>>>> store >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> immediate access >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, the >>>>>>>>>>> opposite. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any higher >>>>>>>>>>> priority >>>>>>>>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>>>>>>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the >>>>>>>>>> clipboard, >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of >>>>>>>>>> course. >>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>> usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used to hold that >>>>>>>>>> image. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you can >>>>>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, and >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear clipboard >>>>>>>>>>>> utility >>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to this all >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> often, >>>>>>>>>>>> in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> healthy >>>>>>>>>>> Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>>>>>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've >>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>> it.) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Simply >>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message to >>>>>>>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chunk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> memory is? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the file it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stays >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this happen, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard Found out anything yet? I still think I was correct. :-) Bill in Co. wrote: > At my fingertips? Nope. But go ahead and test it out. > However, proving that *actual contents* of the *clipboard*, per se, are > actually being swapped out (and I don't mean pointer or address references > in the clipboard here, I mean the actual concrete data, NOT links to > data), > will be interesting. > > Gary S. Terhune wrote: >> OK, you have documentation for this? That the contents of the Clipboard >> are a special case that cannot be swapped out? Makes no sense to me but >> it >> will take a bit to test my own ideas thoroughly on a Win98 machine. >> >> -- >> Gary S. Terhune >> MS-MVP Shell/User >> http://grystmill.com >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:%23Jl5%231A2IHA.5472@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>> My mistake, you're right about pointers being used for file >>>> Cut/Copy/Paste/Move, but when it comes to data itself, text, bitmap, >>>> whatever, I'm right. The data is actually copied to the clipboard. >>> >>> Almost right, but not quite: >>> Those clipboard contents (text, bitmaps, images) ARE stored in RAM (the >>> clipboard), and NOT in virtual memory on the disk - which is what I >>> said. >>> The contents of the clipboard are stored in RAM memory. >>> >>>> -- >>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>> http://grystmill.com >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:%239d8Xp71IHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>> The clipboard contents can or may be held in the swap file? Then I >>>>> guess we have different definitions of clipboard. Like, for example, >>>>> when >>>>> copying and pasting files, the clipboard is only holding pointers to >>>>> the >>>>> actual data, not the actual data itself (the files being copied). >>>>> Maybe that's an example of what you're getting at (I'm not sure) >>>>> >>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>> You're wrong. The clipboard is held in memory, which may be RAM or >>>>>> may >>>>>> be the swap/page file(s). Saying that the Clipboard is stored in RAM >>>>>> is a >>>>>> false statement ("not always true" equals "false".) It's a matter of >>>>>> terminology >>>>>> and terminology is important. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:ue7U8%2311IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard >>>>>>> contents, >>>>>>> just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is >>>>>>> RAM) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't >>>>>>> hold >>>>>>> something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a >>>>>>> different >>>>>>> issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose >>>>>>> contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed >>>>>>> held >>>>>>> in RAM). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether >>>>>>> (being >>>>>>> known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>> Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> this thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> NOT the same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the >>>>>>>> Clipboard >>>>>>>> contents are >>>>>>>> occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the >>>>>>>> hard drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the hard >>>>>>>>> drive (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or >>>>>>>>> whatever) IS >>>>>>>>> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> here, since we can't write into that). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the >>>>>>>>>> Clipboard, >>>>>>>>>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that >>>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>>> mean it's staying in RAM. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're >>>>>>>>>>>>> getting at): >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to >>>>>>>>>>>>> store it for immediate access >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, the >>>>>>>>>>>> opposite. I >>>>>>>>>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any >>>>>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>> priority >>>>>>>>>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out >>>>>>>>>>>> with no problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>>>>>>>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the >>>>>>>>>>> clipboard, >>>>>>>>>>> the clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of >>>>>>>>>>> course. And usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used >>>>>>>>>>> to hold that image. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you >>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>> always do >>>>>>>>>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> that will >>>>>>>>>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear clipboard >>>>>>>>>>>>> utility mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to >>>>>>>>>>>>> this all >>>>>>>>>>>>> that often, in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> a healthy Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>>>>>>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've >>>>>>>>>>>> read it.) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simply reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> him was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> face of it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the clipboard is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chunk of memory is? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it still stays >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this happen, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and how can I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter what is in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give you a single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 Re: Clear Clipboard I've been busy. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:eIFn%23KW2IHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Found out anything yet? I still think I was correct. :-) > > Bill in Co. wrote: >> At my fingertips? Nope. But go ahead and test it out. >> However, proving that *actual contents* of the *clipboard*, per se, are >> actually being swapped out (and I don't mean pointer or address >> references >> in the clipboard here, I mean the actual concrete data, NOT links to >> data), >> will be interesting. >> >> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>> OK, you have documentation for this? That the contents of the Clipboard >>> are a special case that cannot be swapped out? Makes no sense to me but >>> it >>> will take a bit to test my own ideas thoroughly on a Win98 machine. >>> >>> -- >>> Gary S. Terhune >>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>> http://grystmill.com >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:%23Jl5%231A2IHA.5472@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>> My mistake, you're right about pointers being used for file >>>>> Cut/Copy/Paste/Move, but when it comes to data itself, text, bitmap, >>>>> whatever, I'm right. The data is actually copied to the clipboard. >>>> >>>> Almost right, but not quite: >>>> Those clipboard contents (text, bitmaps, images) ARE stored in RAM (the >>>> clipboard), and NOT in virtual memory on the disk - which is what I >>>> said. >>>> The contents of the clipboard are stored in RAM memory. >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:%239d8Xp71IHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>> The clipboard contents can or may be held in the swap file? Then I >>>>>> guess we have different definitions of clipboard. Like, for >>>>>> example, when >>>>>> copying and pasting files, the clipboard is only holding pointers to >>>>>> the >>>>>> actual data, not the actual data itself (the files being copied). >>>>>> Maybe that's an example of what you're getting at (I'm not sure) >>>>>> >>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>> You're wrong. The clipboard is held in memory, which may be RAM or >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> be the swap/page file(s). Saying that the Clipboard is stored in RAM >>>>>>> is a >>>>>>> false statement ("not always true" equals "false".) It's a matter of >>>>>>> terminology >>>>>>> and terminology is important. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:ue7U8%2311IHA.416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> Gary, RAM is precisely what IS being used to hold the clipboard >>>>>>>> contents, >>>>>>>> just as I said. And yes, RAM is MEMORY (but not all "memory" is >>>>>>>> RAM) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now, if you're going to go into the case where the clipboard can't >>>>>>>> hold >>>>>>>> something in RAM, and the swapfile is being used, that is a >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> issue, since we were specifically addressing the *clipboard* (whose >>>>>>>> contents (like a pasted image bmp or jpg or whatever) ARE indeed >>>>>>>> held >>>>>>>> in RAM). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The swapfile is a disk file, and it's a different animal altogether >>>>>>>> (being >>>>>>>> known as "virtual" memory, or as permanent storage "memory"). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>> Yes, you're right. This time. Go back and read your first comment >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> this thread. It says nothing of memory, it only mentions RAM. They >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> NOT the same thing. That is all I was pointing out. If the >>>>>>>>> Clipboard >>>>>>>>> contents are >>>>>>>>> occupying RAM that the system wants, they will get swapped to the >>>>>>>>> hard drive. The swap file is memory but it isn't RAM. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:O6IhJjz1IHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>> Things are either stored in RAM (which IS memory!), or on the >>>>>>>>>> hard >>>>>>>>>> drive (virtual memory). The 512 MB of RAM on your computer (or >>>>>>>>>> whatever) IS >>>>>>>>>> INDEED MEMORY. (I'm not counting the ROM or PROM memory >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> here, since we can't write into that). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Bill, there's a difference between RAM and Memory. Yes, the >>>>>>>>>>> Clipboard, >>>>>>>>>>> whether 1KB or 2GB in size, is going into Memory, but that >>>>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>>>> mean it's staying in RAM. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:%23qB$%23hx1IHA.4704@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:uT$ajbn1IHA.2384@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing is obvious, however (and this may be what you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting at): >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you copy something to the clipboard, it IS using RAM to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> store it for immediate access >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What makes you say that? Not obvious to me at all. In fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> opposite. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> see no reason or documentation that the Clipboard has any >>>>>>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>> priority >>>>>>>>>>>>> than most stuff in memory and should be able to be swapped out >>>>>>>>>>>>> with no problem. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Priority? Where did I mention anything about priority? >>>>>>>>>>>> All I'm saying is: if you paste a picture (image) into the >>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard, >>>>>>>>>>>> the clipboard IS using some memory to hold it. RAM memory, of >>>>>>>>>>>> course. And usually it's minimal, but it is *still* being used >>>>>>>>>>>> to hold that image. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to (or feel compulsed to) free up that RAM, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> always do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what was already mentioned: i.e, just copy a bit of text, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> overwrite what was in there before, OR use the clear >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clipboard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> utility mentioned by Glen. But you really don't need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that often, in practice, from what I've seen. :-) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You know darned well that there's no such thing as "free RAM" >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> a healthy Win98 system. That would be wasting it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.htm >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (How many times have you seen that link, Bill? Surely you've >>>>>>>>>>>>> read it.) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I spent twenty minutes searching Google and Microsoft.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simply reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that stuff clearly implied that dadiOH is wrong. My message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> challenge to show evidence for what he suggests, since on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> face of it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and based upon personal experience, it makes no sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "S1L1Y1" <s1l1y1@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:%235Xkkki1IHA.524@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can I found that information? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:eDd%23bYi1IHA.5944@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would imply that the amount of data you can put into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the clipboard is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited. Would you happen to know how large the reserved >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chunk of memory is? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grystmill.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@invalid.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:uAsjWUi1IHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S1L1Y1 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I copied many pages of a PDF. file at it says it saves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my clipboard. I noticed that even after I close the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it still stays >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the clipboard at uses up memory. Why does this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and how can I clear it manually? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A block of memory is used for the clipboard. It doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter what is in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, no additional memory is being used. "Clearing" it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give you a single byte more of available RAM. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico > >
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