Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,

I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Leythos wrote:

> In article <znlek.96545$gc5.37741@pd7urf2no>, e-printerhelp@mvps.org

> says...

>> Neither color laser nor "solid ink" (wax) printing technologies yet

>> equal or surpass the quality even inexpensive inkjet printers can

>> produce. Both color laser and solid ink are improving all the time and

>> they are approaching inkjet quality, but they certainly aren't quite

>> there yet.

>

> If I take an inkjet output, a wax thermal output, and a color laser

> output and put them behind glass - people will pick the Wax one for best

> quality 90% of the time, then the color laser and then the ink - in my

> experience.

>

>> So, for artists and people producing fine art prints and photo-quality,

>> inkjet is still the best technology. That leaves a lot of people using

>> them.

>

> Like mine, yours in opinion. There are a LOT of color printers by a lot

> of vendors, some make better color output then the others.

>

> I like the color output of the OKI C5500, and my Phaser output is even

> better than that.

>

You obviously don't have the same friends and associates I do, who are

professional artists or photographers. I can pick out a soid ink Phaser

print every time, and not because the quality is equal or better than

almost ALL inkjet results. I keep up with this market, so I regularly

get sample prints for most of the printer classes directly from the

manufacturers. I happen to like, and in fact, I tend to promote the

solid ink Phaser models for their speed, ability to print on almost any

paper type without loss of quality, for their cost per print, and for

their environmental advantage in terms of consumable waste (no

cartridges, very low parts maintenance), but I would not classify them

as truly photo -realistic yet. They have improved over the years quite

a bit since Tektronix sold the division to Xerox, but still not quite

there. An inkjet print on appropriate inkjet treated paper, in one of

the higher resolution modes, even on a lower end printer, is truly a

thing of beauty, and the ability to control color accuracy far exceeds

what the Phaser is capable of. But it all depends upon what the person

requires from their output.

>> I am interested however, if you ever use a refilled cartridge (either

>> locally refilled or refilled at a factory and sold as a refilled

>> cartridge), or refilled one yourself, or do you always buy OEM?

>

> I have, until a few years ago, used bottled Ink, carts from third

> parties, and vendor carts, testing all types - Vendor carts always

> present less problems in my experience.

>

I've found them statistically about equal, and that is before

consideration to costs.

>> Also, are you aware most OEM laser cartridges have a disclaimer on them

>> indicating that some parts in the cartridges may have been refurbished

>> (reused from cartridges returned to the manufacturer after being empty).

>

> Yes, and are you aware that it's covered under warranty by the vendor if

> there is a problem.

>

Many of the refill products, or locally refilled units are also

warranted and I have not heard of any complaints. For instance Staples

offers refilled laser toner cartridges, and they seem to be guaranteed.

The loacl refillers in our area, who are interested in maintaining a

good reputation, seem willing to honor a reasonable warranty as well.

> Have you ever tried to get a third-party to replace cartridges, laser or

> ink, that failed before their expected time? Most places like HP or Oki

> or Lexmark will just send you a replacement without any hassle -

> refillers make you jump through hoops many times.

>

See above.

Art

> [snip]

>

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Arthur - we're just going to have to disagree as our experiences

contradict each other in several areas.

My only reason for posting here was to show that there ARE people that

have experiences and history that shows the third-party is not always a

good solution because of quality and cost in down-time, which has been

my experience for more than a decade.

--

- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a

drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

In article <CJednTCCdIQDHeTVnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@comcast.com>, cds@erols.com

says...

> That percentage is much higher than 50% for those that take the time to

> buy quality compatible ink and educate themselves about refilling

> cartridges at home if they chose that route.

I forgot to ask, but where is the "Quality" report that people can use

to determine what vendor and ink is "Quality" and will work without

problem?

I know for a fact that my OKI Color Laser carts provided by OKI will

work as expected by my OKI Color Laser, same for my HP Laser printers

when using HP Carts, but what about "Quality" third-party vendors -

where is the unbiased, authoritative source for who makes "Quality"

third-party resources?

--

- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a

drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Very, very well said.

"Michael Johnson" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message

news:SsqdnWadWZIcyuTVnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@comcast.com...

> measekite wrote:

>>

>> Yianni wrote:

>>>> Like I said the word compatible is an overused meanless word. There is

>>>> not such thing.

>>>

>>> Do you have a better name, instead of compatibles?

>

> Let us dissect Village Idiot's reply.

>

>> Usually the crap in works in most of the printers. If you print quite a

>> bit then the risk of clogging is reduced but not to the point of OEM ink.

>> If you do not print much then you take your chances. The ink quality is

>> also below OEM and the risk of fading is much higher. You spend less but

>> in reality you do not save money because you are not getting the same

>> thing.

>

> All the above is patently untrue for nearly all quality compatible inks.

> It definitely doesn't apply to the compatible ink I have used for years

> and will continue to use for many more. Village Idiot is too stupid to

> know that paying up to 10X the cost for replacement OEM ink cartridges is

> ALWAYS a money losing proposition for the consumer.

>

>> Almost all of the generic vendors will not tell you the maker of the ink

>> so it is difficult to track in the marketplace.

>

> Some do and some do not but in any event who cares? I don't because the

> ink I buy works as good as OEM ink. Knowing where it came from won't

> change this fact. Let's see what his next stupid point is....

>

>> PCWorld has an interesting article on this subject this month where they

>> even softpedaled the perils of the aftermarket ink but their conclusion

>> in about what I am telling you here. Even so it is an interesting read.

>

> Still relying on PCWorld for knowledge of compatible inks? They are a

> real reliable source there Village Idiot. They are whores to their

> advertisers and will lie to keep, or get more of, their advertising

> dollars.

>

>> You cannot believe most of what you read here in favor of this type of

>> ink as many are in the business or associated with someone who is in the

>> ink or printer business and they will never tell the truth.

>

> Never mind the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people that use compatible inks

> have ZERO problems with them. You are the only one that spews the "only

> buy OEM ink" garbage. Hence you have been dubbed the village idiot.

>

>> Still others do not have the discerning capacity to properly judge the

>> results since they are blinding to what they believe are savings.

>

> Since you have NEVER used compatible inks we know your above statement is

> a load of crap. The world is wrong and you are right? Not so, Village

> Idiot.

>

>> So if you do not print a great deal the amount you do not spend on OEM

>> ink will not be that much.

>

> You're definition of "a great deal" is what exactly? I pay less than $10

> for a full set of compatible cartridges verses $55 for the same OEM

> cartridges. Are you really too stupid to do the math for two, three, five

> or ten sets of cartridges. Even a village idiot should be able to figure

> the savings of using compatible ink verses OEM ink.

>

>> Now Pantone (for the Epson) makes high quality aftermarket ink but you

>> will find that it is expensive.

>

> High cost is your only indicator of whether an ink is of high quality. The

> printer manufacturers love people like you that are too stupid to know

> when they are getting ripped off by them.

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Leythos wrote:

> In article <CJednTCCdIQDHeTVnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@comcast.com>, cds@erols.com

> says...

>> Leythos wrote:

>>> In article <1eudnfRbTMJjw-TVnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@comcast.com>, cds@erols.com

>>> says...

>>>> Leythos wrote:

>>>>> In article <SsqdnWadWZIcyuTVnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@comcast.com>, cds@erols.com

>>>>> says...

>>>>>> Never mind the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people that use compatible inks

>>>>>> have ZERO problems with them. You are the only one that spews the "only

>>>>>> buy OEM ink" garbage. Hence you have been dubbed the village idiot.

>>>>> I know a lot of people that buy non-OEM ink and never have any problems

>>>>> with it, but they also throw a lot of cartridges away because they don't

>>>>> work properly after a month, and they are not out of ink.

>>>>>

>>>>> I also know a lot of people that buy non-OEM ink and have lots of

>>>>> trouble with Epson and HP printer quality.....

>>>>>

>>>>> I have a wax-thermal printer that I would never put any non-OEM wax in

>>>>> because the vendor states it voids the warranty.

>>>>>

>>>>> Personally, I've thrown out all Ink based printers and moved to color

>>>>> laser printers or wax thermal printers because of the hassles with ink

>>>>> printers.

>>>> I have several Canon inkjet printers that all use compatible ink with

>>>> absolutely no issues. I have saved thousands and thousands of dollars

>>>> over the past 3-4 years by not paying insane prices for OEM ink.

>>> And that's good in your case, you would be one of the 50% that has not

>>> seen problems in my experience.

>> That percentage is much higher than 50% for those that take the time to

>> buy quality compatible ink and educate themselves about refilling

>> cartridges at home if they chose that route. Especially so for those

>> that use Canon inkjets as, IMO, they are the friendliest printers to run

>> when using compatible ink. I buy the cartridges pre-filled for added

>> convenience.

>>

>>> Some people make out, others get screwed.

>>>

>>> For people that don't value their time as money it's a good way to save

>>> money, since time to resolve problems with ink is not an issue.

>> I don't have any more problems than I would using OEM ink. I take a

>> compatible cartridge out of its package and install it in the printer

>> and print. I would do the same with a high priced OEM cartridge.

>>

>>> For businesses and others that value their time as money, the very real

>>> risk is not worth the cost. If you take 1 hour to resolve a Ink problem

>>> then you've spent more than you saved on that cartridge. The same goes

>>> for toner for laser printers (color and B/W), not all toner is the same

>>> quality and certainly not all is the same size particles.

>> I have a home office and use a Canon N2000 regularly for work prints.

>> It has compatible cartridges installed and I have never wasted a minute

>> dealing with problems from using them. Just as toner varies in quality

>> so does ink. Picking a good product is key for both types of printers

>> when using compatible inks and toner.

>>

>>> So, for you, it works well, for others it doesn't, for others it's not

>>> worth the possible headaches.

>> I am not alone in my experience with compatible ink. I would peg the

>> percentage that has no problems at 90% for those that buy quality

>> pre-filled cartridges and somewhat lower for home refillers. Chosing a

>> good ink is key and they are plenty of web forums to find good

>> suppliers. A fantastic site to get great information on inkjet printers

>> and refilling at home is: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/

>>

>>> I've been printing for decades, all types of media, and once laser

>>> printers became affordable to the masses I've never seen a reason to own

>>> another ink printer, it costs more and is not near the quality.

>> I've never seen a color laser print photos as good as an inkjet can.

>> For printing on plain paper a color laser is best by far. They both

>> have their uses. I pay $1.59 per cartridge for our Canon printers that

>> use BCI-6 carts so my printing costs is almost negligible when

>> considering the cost of the ink.

>>

>> From what I have seen in the stores, and heard from owners, the cost of

>> OEM color laser toner cartridges are insanely high and many are shocked

>> when it comes time to replace the half filled ones that usually come in

>> the box with the printer. Just like with inkjets, many times it is more

>> economical to buy another printer than pay for the OEM replacement

>> cartridges.

>

> Your experience with "Cannon" is not enough for you to make the claim

> that you are making. My experience is with customers all across the USA,

> all brands of printers, all types of printing, etc.... I would say I

> have experience with thousands of printers in the inkjet class, direct

> experience with them, and that my statements stand for that experience.

My experience, tied with the experiences of many other people I know

personally and through internet bases forums and groups, makes it enough

for me to accurately portray the reliability of inkjet printers.

Especially the Canon brand.

> Cannon has always been easy, but, "In my opinion" they don't have the

> same picture quality as an Epson or a Phaser wax therman does, and it's

> on par with the better color laser printers, but it's not the best.

Inkjets provide the best photo quality prints period. They also can

print on a wide variety of media including coated papers. Try making a

glossy photo quality print with a laser.

> As for cost, yes, toner does cost more than a ink cartridge, but you get

> more pages, normally a LOT more pages. I've never been able to print a

> ream of 8.5x11 paper with on set of ink cartridges, but I can print,

> under our typical use, 5-6 before needing to change just the black toner

> and normally, since we do spot color, not full page color, I can go

> through several cases of paper before needing to change the $85 color

> cartridge that is showing low (and the laser printers I buy have 4 toner

> carts so that we don't waste money on replacing colors that are not

> empty).

The Canon printers I use also have individual cartridges for color and

black so I don't waste any ink either. If I am understanding you

correctly, your color laser has four toner cartridges that cost $85 each

to replace. This means a complete replacement set of cartridges costs

around $340. For that $340 I can buy over 200 compatible cartridges for

my inkjet printers. The volume of printing that can be done with that

many cartridges is MASSIVE and very likely greater than what one could

expect from one set of color laser cartridges for the same page coverages.

> Until you've got experience with thousands of printers yourself, your

> view, like mine, is just limited to your experience.

>

> We're on the same page, just the level of experience is different and

> I'm talking about more vendors print devices than you are.

I agree that not all inkjet printers are compatible ink friendly due to

their design. Especially when refilling cartridges at home. I buy

Canon printers for their features, output quality and because they are

refill friendly. While I haven't owned thousands of printers the

internet affords us the ability to interact with, and read testimonials

from, thousands and thousands of printer owners. After years if being

involved with online printer groups and forums I haven't seen any

evidence where using quality compatible inks correctly have caused any

more issues than using OEM ink. Besides, if OEM ink was so bullet proof

then why do the printer manufacturers include head cleaning features in

their software?

As for which printer type is better that is a totally subjective matter.

I prefer inkjets for their print quality, economical consumables

(i.e. compatibles) and a very good level of reliability. I also own B&W

laser printers and use them quite often. If color lasers met my needs I

would have one too. I find them to be less flexible than inkjets and

very expensive to operate due to the high cost of consumables. If I had

a need to print large volumes in high quality on plain paper then color

laser would be my choice.

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Leythos wrote:

> In article <CJednTCCdIQDHeTVnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@comcast.com>, cds@erols.com

> says...

>> That percentage is much higher than 50% for those that take the time to

>> buy quality compatible ink and educate themselves about refilling

>> cartridges at home if they chose that route.

>

> I forgot to ask, but where is the "Quality" report that people can use

> to determine what vendor and ink is "Quality" and will work without

> problem?

>

> I know for a fact that my OKI Color Laser carts provided by OKI will

> work as expected by my OKI Color Laser, same for my HP Laser printers

> when using HP Carts, but what about "Quality" third-party vendors -

> where is the unbiased, authoritative source for who makes "Quality"

> third-party resources?

I trust more what PEOPLE say regarding the quality of a given compatible

ink than a report. Many times the people, or entities, writing reports

have reasons to skew the results. I use the same method when

determining which performance parts to install on my old Mustang. There

is no better way to find a good product than listening to the many

people that actually use it and are satisfied with the results. A great

site for anything inkjet related is here:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/ Also, the printer newsgroups are

another great place to get very sound advice.

I buy my cartridges from here: https://www.neximaging.com/ I have done

so for a couple of years and never been disappointed. The cartridges

come boxed and in a vacuum sealed plastic wrap. They work just like OEM

cartridges for almost 1/10th the cost. I can't recall ever having a bad

cartridge due to the cartridge or the ink it contains.

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> No Gary, I'm not a lawyer

Quite obvious

> , nor have I ever claimed to be one, but I am researching a class

> action right now regarding anti-trust violations by printer

> manufacturers.

>

> In the US, the 1890 Sherman Antitrust Act, and the 1914 Clayton Act

> both speak to this, and since then, amended acts, including the

> Robinson-Patman Act of 1936 and others later still address certain

> aspects of this antitrust.

>

> Europe has even more strict requirements when it comes to tying, and

> they have also passed legislation that requires all toner and ink

> cartridges to be refillable. They have the EU Antitrust Legislation

> of 2004 and more recent legislation.

>

> Most printer manufacturers have indeed changed the wording of their

> manuals or warranties so they no longer imply that using 3rd party ink

> products voids their warranties, because they have lost court

> challenges based upon anti-trust legislation. They now typically

> suggest use of OEM product will provide the "best quality results"

> with their printers.

They also say that any 3rd pity parts or consumables which damage their

product voids the warranty. The US will never make a mfg fix their

product for free if it is misused by the customer. It would never get

by even a liberal Supreme Court.

>

> However, the area where the printer manufacturers have won a number of

> decisions, some of which in appeal or still pending, is in regard to

> patents of certain features of their cartridges. Due to the current

> climate in the US regarding trade, several opinions have come down in

> regard to protection of patent designs within printer cartridges,

> particularly inkjet types. Some are being challenged, because the

> manufacturers incorporated "features" into their printers which

> require the patented designs to operate. The issue is if the

> features' intent were to improve the product or to simply restrict

> fair and protected trade.

That will not be proven. The chips (and I do not personally like them)

provide information to the printer software and to ink level led lights.

>

> We may not see movement on this for some time to come, at least until

> a change in government in the US. In the meantime, the EU legislation

> will shortly be coming into effect regarding refilling of printer

> cartridges. Some printer companies have "dealt" with this by

> regionalizing their printers so that only certain cartridges will be

> recognized by certain printers, based upon locale.

Just like DVD movies.

>

> I certainly do suggest people read their warranty carefully, but they

> should also take note that many, if not all warranties in the US, have

> a disclaimer in them stating that some jurisdictions do not allow for

> the restrictions they just stated, so best to also know your state law.

There are none.

>

> Oh, and BTW, Gary, although I don't advertise it in my signature:

>

> MS MVP (5 years running) Used to be Windows Shell,

> Now Printing and Imaging

>

> Art

>

> If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,

> I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

>

> http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

>

> Gary S. Terhune wrote:

>> When you say, "in most countries", did you mean to include the United

>> States? Can you suggest where I might find such language in the

>> antitrust legislation of the United States? Or in court records of

>> appeals?

>>

>> Your entire spiel is very general in terms. (I mean, I haven't read

>> most manuals for printers these days. Have you?) I'd prefer to read

>> the actual Warranty if it were me making the decision, and not depend

>> on some vague description of regulations. You also say, "Since, in

>> most cases, the defect is not related to the consumable..." It's the

>> cases not included in that statement that concern me.

>>

>> OK, so come clean. You tried really hard to sound like a lawyer. Are

>> you a real one? I'm guessing, "Not." But nice try.

>>

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> The operative phrase is "damage caused by...". The onus is on the

> manufacturer to prove damage is caused by the use of the (in this

> case) consumables.

Rather easy with a clogged head.

> Since I haven't seen an inkjet printer yet that never clogs on its own

> OEM ink, it would be difficult to support an argument that 3rd party

> inks were "more damaging" to the printer than their own licensed

> products.

Easy to prove.

>

> I suppose if the ink contained a wrong formulation,

even worse if the ink was identical and was in patent violation.

> such as inappropriate solvents that actually did damage the heads, or

> some measurable aspect to a 3rd party formulation that developed into

> a much higher than normal failure rate, the manufacturer might have a

> legitimate complaint, but it is not easy or cheap to prove.

They have plenty of money to prove it and the stakes are much more.

> Since inkjet printer heads and cartridges do tend to have a relatively

> high level of failures and clogs,

That is not true. My HP and My Canon have never had a print head clog.

But based on the posters here who cut every corner possible it may be

possible to reach that conclusion since most use crap ink. Very few

posters who detail their woes in this ng use OEM ink. The OEM users

usually do not have ink issues.

> regardless of the ink used, the practice of refusing a warranty claim

> based upon ink clogs is rare today.

Call up a printer tech support and tell them you have a clogged

printhead and have been using crap ink and want it fixed under the

warranty and see what they say.

> That doesn't mean it will never happen

It certainly will.

> , however. I just suggest that if it were to, you have a reasonable

> argument to make should it.

>

> Art

>

> If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,

> I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

>

> http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

>

> midwest_46@yahoo.com wrote:

>> On Jul 11, 4:36�pm, measekite <inkysti...@oem.com> wrote:

>>> That is crap. �A printer mfg can withhold warranty services if the

>>> offending ink caused the issue with their printer. �They state

>>> that in

>>> their warranty as well. �Do not listen to the holy one. � Call

>>> up the

>>> printer mfg tech support and ask them if they will honor a warranty if

>>> the crap ink they used caused their printer to malfunction.

>>>

>>

>> According to my printer's manual, "This warranty does not cover:

>>

>> 3. Damage caused by another device or software used with this Product

>> (including but not limited to damage resulting from use of non Brother-

>> brand parts and Consumable and Accessory items)"

>>

>>> The quality is lower and the ink fades

>>> faster so either the mfg has to admit patent infringement or their

>>> product is not the same.

>>>

>>

>> So ink4less's imitations are crappy and bad?

>>

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> I think the part of this discussion that isn't as visible as it should

> be is that many printer heads clog and cartridges fail which ARE OEM.

I have both an HP and a Canon and it has never happened. My friends

have Epson R300 series printers and it has never happened. Now there

are Epson non R series where (notably Durabrite ink) where that did

happen and some of the off brand printers.

>

> I have helped literally tens of thousands of people with their printer

> issues,

Most that have been using non OEM ink and I am sure tens of thousands of

people is an exaggeration since that would be a full time job for more

years than inkjet printers have been around and would entail more people

then a full time tech support person handles in years.

> the vast majority of which are related to inkjet clogging. Most people

> appear to be both honest and candid with me, since they know I have no

> personal ax to grind on the OEM versus 3rd party issues and because I

> do not represent any specific manufacturer.

>

> In the inkjet printer lines, I mainly deal with Epson printer issues,

> but also have a fair number of Canon, the occasional Brother, and

> lesser so the Lexmark and HP printers, mainly because most HP and

> Lexmark inkjet printers use replaceable heads which are integrated

> into the cartridges.

>

> Without a formal count, my overall experience is that both OEM and 3rd

> party inks cause head clogs,

3rd party is a higher risk when the printer is used normally and there

is the lower quality and more rapid fading issues as well.

> and both have defective and failed cartridges. Now, since there are

> counterfeit cartridges out there that even the companies are unable to

> identify without dissection, I don't know what percentage of people

> *thought* they were buying OEM who actually ended up with knock-offs.

> The profit margin on ink cartridges is so high, it is worthwhile for

> companies to make OEM counterfeits.

>

> However, my correspondence shows no ink cartridges are immune from

> causing head blockages and cartridge failures, OEM or 3rd party, and

> the numbers are not skewed strongly one way or the other. When

> considering, in some cases, the tremendous savings in buying refill

> inks or 3rd party cartridges, and the risk factor being relatively

> flat, it is probably worth the risk.

The risk is more than a head clog. It is lower quality and more rapid

fading. Read PCWorld this month. They even softpedaled the crap ink

and still came to the same conclusion.

>

> Also, some ink formulations just aren't available in OEM versions,

and so a 3rd party product is the only way to do certain types of printing.

>

> Lastly, some inkjet cartridges have become difficult to locate in OEM

> versions, due to the age of the printer.

>

> Art

>

> If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,

> I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

>

> http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

>

> Leythos wrote:

>> In article <SsqdnWadWZIcyuTVnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@comcast.com>,

>> cds@erols.com says...

>>> Never mind the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people that use compatible

>>> inks have ZERO problems with them. You are the only one that spews

>>> the "only buy OEM ink" garbage. Hence you have been dubbed the

>>> village idiot.

>>

>> I know a lot of people that buy non-OEM ink and never have any

>> problems with it, but they also throw a lot of cartridges away

>> because they don't work properly after a month, and they are not out

>> of ink.

>>

>> I also know a lot of people that buy non-OEM ink and have lots of

>> trouble with Epson and HP printer quality.....

>>

>> I have a wax-thermal printer that I would never put any non-OEM wax

>> in because the vendor states it voids the warranty.

>>

>> Personally, I've thrown out all Ink based printers and moved to color

>> laser printers or wax thermal printers because of the hassles with

>> ink printers.

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Leythos wrote:

> In article <Hclek.96536$gc5.79700@pd7urf2no>, e-printerhelp@mvps.org

> says...

>

>> In the inkjet printer lines, I mainly deal with Epson printer issues,

>> but also have a fair number of Canon, the occasional Brother, and lesser

>> so the Lexmark and HP printers, mainly because most HP and Lexmark

>> inkjet printers use replaceable heads which are integrated into the

>> cartridges.

>>

>> Without a formal count, my overall experience is that both OEM and 3rd

>> party inks cause head clogs, and both have defective and failed

>> cartridges. Now, since there are counterfeit cartridges out there that

>> even the companies are unable to identify without dissection, I don't

>> know what percentage of people *thought* they were buying OEM who

>> actually ended up with knock-offs. The profit margin on ink cartridges

>> is so high, it is worthwhile for companies to make OEM counterfeits.

>>

>

> And there lies the problem - people that have printers with print-heads

> that are in the cartridge and those that have the head in the printer

> itself.

>

> My experience, since Epson was in the printer and not the cartridge, was

> that non-epson ink was always a gamble, always a problem, be it

> purchased third-party cartridges or third-party ink, it was always more

> trouble than it was worth.

>

That is the way I see it

> With HP, if the person didn't catch the printer cart before it went

> empty they often had a nozzle that died/burned out and spent a lot of

> time trying to get good print, wasting ink, etc....

>

Also true

> Purchased replacement (non-vendor) carts would work most times, but,

> they too presented problems more often than vendor specific carts, and

> there was always the threat about warranty void if caught using third-

> party carts/ink.

>

And I have read reports about leakage.

> So, what it comes down to is that our experience shows different thing,

> I don't have any connection to any ink-refill stores, companies, or

> business where I have any vested interest at all. We did work for a

> MAJOR in refiller a long time ago, and they gave me free toner, but

> their refills were nowhere near the quality that my Lexmark 1200DPI

> toner was.

>

> I have a lot of friends that use Ink based printers, they always

> complain about quantity of pages per change, mess, but how cheap their

> printer was. The friends that have laser printers only complain when

> it's time to purchase a new toner cartridge, but when you ask them how

> many pages they got since they last purchased one, well, you get the

> idea.

>

But for those who want to print lab quality photos laser does not do it.

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Michael Johnson wrote:

> snip

>

> I agree that not all inkjet printers are compatible ink friendly due

> to their design.

Compatibility does not exist. It is an overused and meaningless term.

Refilling is a mess and a pain. The results are inferior and the risk

of fading is higher. Plus you do not know what you are getting because

the bulk reseller will not tell you.

> Especially when refilling cartridges at home. I buy Canon printers

> for their features, output quality and because they are refill

> friendly. While I haven't owned thousands of printers the internet

> affords us the ability to interact with, and read testimonials from,

> thousands and thousands of printer owners.

In order to read that much you need to read for years 8 hours a day.

> After years if being involved with online printer groups and forums I

> haven't seen any evidence where using quality compatible inks

> correctly have caused any more issues than using OEM ink.

Forums like here produce a lot of liars who need to rationalize their

poor choices so they do not feel as bad.

> Besides, if OEM ink was so bullet proof then why do the printer

> manufacturers include head cleaning features in their software?

>

> As for which printer type is better that is a totally subjective

> matter. I prefer inkjets for their print quality,

There is print quality when you use OEM

> economical consumables (i.e. compatibles) and a very good level of

> reliability. I also own B&W laser printers and use them quite often.

> If color lasers met my needs I would have one too. I find them to be

> less flexible than inkjets and very expensive to operate due to the

> high cost of consumables.

Laser printer have a lower cost of consummables then inkjets.

> If I had a need to print large volumes in high quality on plain

> paper then color laser would be my choice.

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Michael Johnson wrote:

> Leythos wrote:

>> In article <CJednTCCdIQDHeTVnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@comcast.com>,

>> cds@erols.com says...

>>> That percentage is much higher than 50% for those that take the time

>>> to buy quality compatible ink and educate themselves about refilling

>>> cartridges at home if they chose that route.

>>

>> I forgot to ask, but where is the "Quality" report that people can

>> use to determine what vendor and ink is "Quality" and will work

>> without problem?

>>

>> I know for a fact that my OKI Color Laser carts provided by OKI will

>> work as expected by my OKI Color Laser, same for my HP Laser printers

>> when using HP Carts, but what about "Quality" third-party vendors -

>> where is the unbiased, authoritative source for who makes "Quality"

>> third-party resources?

>

> I trust more what PEOPLE say regarding the quality of a given

> compatible ink than a report.

A rationialization

> Many times the people, or entities, writing reports have reasons to

> skew the results.

But there is a consensus

> I use the same method when determining which performance parts to

> install on my old Mustang.

Is that the one with the pancake gas tank that can explode in a rear end

crash?

> There is no better way to find a good product than listening to the

> many people that actually use it and are satisfied with the results.

You will not find them here. Only a few liars.

> A great site for anything inkjet related is here:

> http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/

An after market cult of refillers

> Also, the printer newsgroups are another great place to get very sound

> advice.

>

> I buy my cartridges from here: https://www.neximaging.com/

Who?? What brand do they sell? Oh they will not tell you? So you

spend your money on something that you do not even know what it is?

> I have done so for a couple of years and never been disappointed. The

> cartridges come boxed and in a vacuum sealed plastic wrap. They work

> just like OEM cartridges for almost 1/10th the cost. I can't recall

> ever having a bad cartridge due to the cartridge or the ink it contains.

He should be able to recall lower quality results and eventual fading

just like the reviews say.

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Enjoy your class-action suit. I happen to be on the other side of the issue.

I happen to think these anti-trust regs go way too far. If I were a printer

manufacturer and someone else's ink cartridge or other after-market part

caused the damage that an owner is seeking coverage for, I'd laugh in his

face, the law bedamned. AFAIC, that blurb you're talking about should read,

"...may void the warranty" and then add the explanation that what's at issue

is whether the after-market parts or consumables caused the damage. I'm also

a fan of patent rights in most cases.

Anyway, thanks for the more complete explanation. I was concerned that your

first contribution here might lead the OP astray. After all, it all comes

down to what the warranty actually says. A simple consumer can't be expected

to delve further into the archana of laws, etc., to figure out if there's a

loophole or not. If the warranty happens to be unenforceable in my

jurisdiction, it's not like I'm going to spend valuable time and money to

fight the company (at least, I wouldn't have when I was still in business.)

Of course, I'm from the "inkjets are the spawn of hell" contingency, and

when it comes to my own various laser printers, especially the color ones,

I've tried after-market parts and, frankly, they sucked. In this, I'm with

Leythos. And (replying to some other comment in this thread that I won't

bother to locate) if I want a quality color print of photographic quality,

I'll buy it from a decent photo processing company. I like the few photos I

have that are worth printing to last longer than a couple of years. They

tend to go into frames and onto my walls where I expect them to look just as

good when the kids are divvying up the goods as they do when I hang them.

Congrats on the Awards.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message

news:bukek.66935$kx.63361@pd7urf3no...

> No Gary, I'm not a lawyer, nor have I ever claimed to be one, but I am

> researching a class action right now regarding anti-trust violations by

> printer manufacturers.

>

> In the US, the 1890 Sherman Antitrust Act, and the 1914 Clayton Act both

> speak to this, and since then, amended acts, including the Robinson-Patman

> Act of 1936 and others later still address certain aspects of this

> antitrust.

>

> Europe has even more strict requirements when it comes to tying, and they

> have also passed legislation that requires all toner and ink cartridges to

> be refillable. They have the EU Antitrust Legislation of 2004 and more

> recent legislation.

>

> Most printer manufacturers have indeed changed the wording of their

> manuals or warranties so they no longer imply that using 3rd party ink

> products voids their warranties, because they have lost court challenges

> based upon anti-trust legislation. They now typically suggest use of OEM

> product will provide the "best quality results" with their printers.

>

> However, the area where the printer manufacturers have won a number of

> decisions, some of which in appeal or still pending, is in regard to

> patents of certain features of their cartridges. Due to the current

> climate in the US regarding trade, several opinions have come down in

> regard to protection of patent designs within printer cartridges,

> particularly inkjet types. Some are being challenged, because the

> manufacturers incorporated "features" into their printers which require

> the patented designs to operate. The issue is if the features' intent

> were to improve the product or to simply restrict fair and protected

> trade.

>

> We may not see movement on this for some time to come, at least until a

> change in government in the US. In the meantime, the EU legislation will

> shortly be coming into effect regarding refilling of printer cartridges.

> Some printer companies have "dealt" with this by regionalizing their

> printers so that only certain cartridges will be recognized by certain

> printers, based upon locale.

>

> I certainly do suggest people read their warranty carefully, but they

> should also take note that many, if not all warranties in the US, have a

> disclaimer in them stating that some jurisdictions do not allow for the

> restrictions they just stated, so best to also know your state law.

>

> Oh, and BTW, Gary, although I don't advertise it in my signature:

>

> MS MVP (5 years running) Used to be Windows Shell,

> Now Printing and Imaging

>

> Art

>

> If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,

> I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

>

> http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

>

> Gary S. Terhune wrote:

>> When you say, "in most countries", did you mean to include the United

>> States? Can you suggest where I might find such language in the antitrust

>> legislation of the United States? Or in court records of appeals?

>>

>> Your entire spiel is very general in terms. (I mean, I haven't read most

>> manuals for printers these days. Have you?) I'd prefer to read the actual

>> Warranty if it were me making the decision, and not depend on some vague

>> description of regulations. You also say, "Since, in most cases, the

>> defect is not related to the consumable..." It's the cases not included

>> in that statement that concern me.

>>

>> OK, so come clean. You tried really hard to sound like a lawyer. Are you

>> a real one? I'm guessing, "Not." But nice try.

>>

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> Enjoy your class-action suit. I happen to be on the other side of the issue.

> I happen to think these anti-trust regs go way too far. If I were a printer

> manufacturer and someone else's ink cartridge or other after-market part

> caused the damage that an owner is seeking coverage for, I'd laugh in his

> face,

And that is what they should do.

> the law bedamned. AFAIC, that blurb you're talking about should read,

> "...may void the warranty" and then add the explanation that what's at issue

> is whether the after-market parts or consumables caused the damage. I'm also

> a fan of patent rights in most cases.

>

> Anyway, thanks for the more complete explanation. I was concerned that your

> first contribution here might lead the OP astray. After all, it all comes

> down to what the warranty actually says. A simple consumer can't be expected

> to delve further into the archana of laws, etc., to figure out if there's a

> loophole or not. If the warranty happens to be unenforceable in my

> jurisdiction, it's not like I'm going to spend valuable time and money to

> fight the company (at least, I wouldn't have when I was still in business.)

>

> Of course, I'm from the "inkjets are the spawn of hell" contingency, and

> when it comes to my own various laser printers, especially the color ones,

>

> I've tried after-market parts and, frankly, they sucked.

The problem with this ng is that there are those that spend their money

on either known or unknown crap and then do not want to admit they made

a mistake and cannot stand egg on their face or an I told ya so. They

lie and need to rationalize what they spend. Many cannot judge quality

or are just willing to accept mediocrity for the reduction in money

spent. These are the same people that will buy a Kia and tell everybody

that it is as good as a Honda Civic because the warranty is longer.

> In this, I'm with

> Leythos. And (replying to some other comment in this thread that I won't

> bother to locate) if I want a quality color print of photographic quality,

> I'll buy it from a decent photo processing company. I like the few photos I

> have that are worth printing to last longer than a couple of years. They

> tend to go into frames and onto my walls where I expect them to look just as

> good when the kids are divvying up the goods as they do when I hang them.

>

> Congrats on the Awards.

>

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

There isn't any inkjet photo printer that will produce "lab quality"

photographic prints. Please remember to apply your own standards for ink

quality, duration, etc., when replying. You really want to claim that an

inkjet photo print, even the very best out there, will last anywhere near as

long as a lab print?

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message

news:Narek.12281$LG4.1186@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

> But for those who want to print lab quality photos laser does not do it.

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Just because something is "well said" doesn't make it true.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

news:%ypek.5238$cn7.3677@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com...

> Very, very well said.

> "Michael Johnson" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message

> news:SsqdnWadWZIcyuTVnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@comcast.com...

>> measekite wrote:

>>>

>>> Yianni wrote:

>>>>> Like I said the word compatible is an overused meanless word. There

>>>>> is not such thing.

>>>>

>>>> Do you have a better name, instead of compatibles?

>>

>> Let us dissect Village Idiot's reply.

>>

>>> Usually the crap in works in most of the printers. If you print quite a

>>> bit then the risk of clogging is reduced but not to the point of OEM

>>> ink. If you do not print much then you take your chances. The ink

>>> quality is also below OEM and the risk of fading is much higher. You

>>> spend less but in reality you do not save money because you are not

>>> getting the same thing.

>>

>> All the above is patently untrue for nearly all quality compatible inks.

>> It definitely doesn't apply to the compatible ink I have used for years

>> and will continue to use for many more. Village Idiot is too stupid to

>> know that paying up to 10X the cost for replacement OEM ink cartridges is

>> ALWAYS a money losing proposition for the consumer.

>>

>>> Almost all of the generic vendors will not tell you the maker of the ink

>>> so it is difficult to track in the marketplace.

>>

>> Some do and some do not but in any event who cares? I don't because the

>> ink I buy works as good as OEM ink. Knowing where it came from won't

>> change this fact. Let's see what his next stupid point is....

>>

>>> PCWorld has an interesting article on this subject this month where they

>>> even softpedaled the perils of the aftermarket ink but their conclusion

>>> in about what I am telling you here. Even so it is an interesting read.

>>

>> Still relying on PCWorld for knowledge of compatible inks? They are a

>> real reliable source there Village Idiot. They are whores to their

>> advertisers and will lie to keep, or get more of, their advertising

>> dollars.

>>

>>> You cannot believe most of what you read here in favor of this type of

>>> ink as many are in the business or associated with someone who is in the

>>> ink or printer business and they will never tell the truth.

>>

>> Never mind the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people that use compatible inks

>> have ZERO problems with them. You are the only one that spews the "only

>> buy OEM ink" garbage. Hence you have been dubbed the village idiot.

>>

>>> Still others do not have the discerning capacity to properly judge the

>>> results since they are blinding to what they believe are savings.

>>

>> Since you have NEVER used compatible inks we know your above statement is

>> a load of crap. The world is wrong and you are right? Not so, Village

>> Idiot.

>>

>>> So if you do not print a great deal the amount you do not spend on OEM

>>> ink will not be that much.

>>

>> You're definition of "a great deal" is what exactly? I pay less than $10

>> for a full set of compatible cartridges verses $55 for the same OEM

>> cartridges. Are you really too stupid to do the math for two, three,

>> five or ten sets of cartridges. Even a village idiot should be able to

>> figure the savings of using compatible ink verses OEM ink.

>>

>>> Now Pantone (for the Epson) makes high quality aftermarket ink but you

>>> will find that it is expensive.

>>

>> High cost is your only indicator of whether an ink is of high quality.

>> The printer manufacturers love people like you that are too stupid to

>> know when they are getting ripped off by them.

>

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> Enjoy your class-action suit. I happen to be on the other side of the issue.

> I happen to think these anti-trust regs go way too far. If I were a printer

> manufacturer and someone else's ink cartridge or other after-market part

> caused the damage that an owner is seeking coverage for, I'd laugh in his

> face, the law bedamned. AFAIC, that blurb you're talking about should read,

> "...may void the warranty" and then add the explanation that what's at issue

> is whether the after-market parts or consumables caused the damage. I'm also

> a fan of patent rights in most cases.

The Printer manufacturing companies should be held to the same standards

as the automobile manufacturers. You wouldn't want to buy a Ford Focus

and then be held to buying some proprietary gas, tires, oil etc. that

you could only buy from a Ford source would you? Or if you don't use

Ford gas you void the warranty? This is essentially what the printer

manufacturers are doing to their customers. A chip in a cartridge does

nothing to improve its function. It is intended to keep the printer

users slaves to the exorbitantly priced OEM ink. This is why we have

anti-trust laws and why they need to be enforced against printer

manufacturers.

> Anyway, thanks for the more complete explanation. I was concerned that your

> first contribution here might lead the OP astray. After all, it all comes

> down to what the warranty actually says. A simple consumer can't be expected

> to delve further into the archana of laws, etc., to figure out if there's a

> loophole or not. If the warranty happens to be unenforceable in my

> jurisdiction, it's not like I'm going to spend valuable time and money to

> fight the company (at least, I wouldn't have when I was still in business.)

>

> Of course, I'm from the "inkjets are the spawn of hell" contingency, and

> when it comes to my own various laser printers, especially the color ones,

> I've tried after-market parts and, frankly, they sucked. In this, I'm with

> Leythos. And (replying to some other comment in this thread that I won't

> bother to locate) if I want a quality color print of photographic quality,

> I'll buy it from a decent photo processing company. I like the few photos I

> have that are worth printing to last longer than a couple of years. They

> tend to go into frames and onto my walls where I expect them to look just as

> good when the kids are divvying up the goods as they do when I hang them.

I have inkjet produced prints made with compatible inks that have been

hanging on the walls for TWO YEARS. They look just as good as the day

they were printed. Any print will fade under direct sunlight with no

protective barriers. Even those you have done at a lab. Plus, in the

off chance I would have a print fade I can print another one for

pennies. Inkjets aren't for everyone but the claims being made about

fading, etc. just aren't true and are being exaggerated. I know because

my family prints hundreds upon hundreds of photos every year and we

haven't had one fading issue or any issue for that matter. I'm sure our

experience isn't some abnormal occurrence. I read and hear testimonials

all the time from people that have the same experience.

> Congrats on the Awards.

>

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> Just because something is "well said" doesn't make it true.

Exactly. That goes for us all.

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

In article <oN2dnbM9wq9csOfVnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@comcast.com>, cds@erols.com

says...

> Inkjets provide the best photo quality prints period. They also can

> print on a wide variety of media including coated papers. Try making a

> glossy photo quality print with a laser.

>

You've not seen very many Color Laser printers by different vendors -

the OKI have a toner that produces a glossy output, in fact, you have to

change it to matte to not get glossy output.

[snipped rest]

--

- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a

drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

In article <kridnTU2ZYLkrOfVnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d@comcast.com>, cds@erols.com

says...

> I can't recall ever having a bad

> cartridge due to the cartridge or the ink it contains.

>

Our experience is different, and I'm not invalidating your experience,

but I've had hundreds of bad third-party cartridges in my life, not to

mention thousands of bad ones from customers complaints.

I can't think of a single OEM Cartridge that I've had people complain

about, and the same goes for laser printers or wax thermal printers.

--

- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a

drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

In article <Narek.12281$LG4.1186@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com>,

inkystinky@oem.com says...

> But for those who want to print lab quality photos laser does not do it.

And neither do the typical home users Inkjet printer.

define LAB quality - I can certainly color match output on some lasers

and wax thermal.

--

- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a

drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

July 13, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

"Michael Johnson" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message

news:Z4mdnRsOodGl7OfVnZ2dnUVZ_tjinZ2d@comcast.com...

> Gary S. Terhune wrote:

>> Enjoy your class-action suit. I happen to be on the other side of the

>> issue. I happen to think these anti-trust regs go way too far. If I were

>> a printer manufacturer and someone else's ink cartridge or other

>> after-market part caused the damage that an owner is seeking coverage

>> for, I'd laugh in his face, the law bedamned. AFAIC, that blurb you're

>> talking about should read, "...may void the warranty" and then add the

>> explanation that what's at issue is whether the after-market parts or

>> consumables caused the damage. I'm also a fan of patent rights in most

>> cases.

>

> The Printer manufacturing companies should be held to the same standards

> as the automobile manufacturers. You wouldn't want to buy a Ford Focus

> and then be held to buying some proprietary gas, tires, oil etc. that you

> could only buy from a Ford source would you? Or if you don't use Ford gas

> you void the warranty? This is essentially what the printer manufacturers

> are doing to their customers. A chip in a cartridge does nothing to

> improve its function. It is intended to keep the printer users slaves to

> the exorbitantly priced OEM ink. This is why we have anti-trust laws and

> why they need to be enforced against printer manufacturers.

In all automobile warranties, you will find disclaimers that if your vehicle

is damaged by bad fuel or other consumables, or after-market parts, or

improper or unperformed maintenance, the damage is not covered under the

warranty.

The rest of that paragraph is pure whining. Don't like the way the printer

company protects its patents, don't buy it. End of story. If people only buy

printers that are perfectly happy with you using non-OEM consumables and

parts, that's all there will be left on the market. When that happens,

you'll start showing signs of severe depression due to not having anything

to whine about.

<SNIP>

>> Of course, I'm from the "inkjets are the spawn of hell" contingency, and

>> when it comes to my own various laser printers, especially the color

>> ones, I've tried after-market parts and, frankly, they sucked. In this,

>> I'm with Leythos. And (replying to some other comment in this thread that

>> I won't bother to locate) if I want a quality color print of photographic

>> quality, I'll buy it from a decent photo processing company. I like the

>> few photos I have that are worth printing to last longer than a couple of

>> years. They tend to go into frames and onto my walls where I expect them

>> to look just as good when the kids are divvying up the goods as they do

>> when I hang them.

>

> I have inkjet produced prints made with compatible inks that have been

> hanging on the walls for TWO YEARS. They look just as good as the day

> they were printed. Any print will fade under direct sunlight with no

> protective barriers. Even those you have done at a lab. Plus, in the off

> chance I would have a print fade I can print another one for pennies.

> Inkjets aren't for everyone but the claims being made about fading, etc.

> just aren't true and are being exaggerated. I know because my family

> prints hundreds upon hundreds of photos every year and we haven't had one

> fading issue or any issue for that matter. I'm sure our experience isn't

> some abnormal occurrence. I read and hear testimonials all the time from

> people that have the same experience.

ROFL!!! Two years! Oh my goodness, such quality! Photo-quality inkjets

haven't been out long enough to make any decent judgement about their true

quality.

I have color Kodak prints that have been hanging on the wall or sitting on a

shelf, etc., from clear back to the Great Depression and WWII, and they've

hardly changed a bit. Such durability might not matter to you, but it does

to me.

I just realized, this thread boils down to those who are just plain cheap

(in a self-deluding way) and don't really care about quality, and those who

prefer quality and durability and the efficiency that goes along with that

paradigm. Oh, and those who like to get involved in causes, <yawn>. Pretty

much covers the gamut, I'd say. Could easily divvy up all of society,

worldwide, along such lines. Unfortunately, cheap always seems to win, to

the extent of forcing quality completely out of the picture.

Cheap and whiny. Yup, that pretty much covers it. That's why, for instance,

when I go out to shop for a new desktop phone in a few minutes, I'm going to

come back entirely pissed off, with a cheap POS I'm likely to smash against

the wall within a year. Because the cheap whiners forced quality into a

grave.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

July 14, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Leythos wrote:

> In article <kridnTU2ZYLkrOfVnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d@comcast.com>, cds@erols.com

> says...

>> I can't recall ever having a bad

>> cartridge due to the cartridge or the ink it contains.

>>

>

> Our experience is different, and I'm not invalidating your experience,

> but I've had hundreds of bad third-party cartridges in my life, not to

> mention thousands of bad ones from customers complaints.

.... and I am not invalidating yours. There are many people that buy

those generic ink packages at Costco etc. where the inks aren't

formulated for a specific printer. IMO, those kits are the source of

many of the complaints regarding non-OEM inks. Usually buying prefilled

cartridges eliminates a lot of this problem. Most people don't realize

there is a difference between generic ink and compatible ink and they

don't bother to educate themselves before diving in. The same can

happen with toner.

> I can't think of a single OEM Cartridge that I've had people complain

> about, and the same goes for laser printers or wax thermal printers.

I use OEM cartridges for our laser printers. The cost per page is

acceptable to me even with those. If I would get a bad compatible

cartridge it wouldn't be a big deal since I would lose all of the $1.59

that I paid for the cartridge. That minor loss isn't worth fretting

over. Now paying $11-$15 for a Canon OEM cartridge and it being

defective is another matter.

I initially purchased just a couple of sets of cartridges from

Neximaging and tried them out before buying a large quantity. Anyone

else should do the same to reduce their risks. IMO, the biggest reason

people have print head clogging problems and/or print head problems in

general is they run the printer until a cartridge is completely dry.

This is a very bad thing to do with the heads that heat the ink like

Canon's printers and it can be done with or without OEM cartridges.

July 14, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

You need to read all of the reviews by all sources. That is what they ALL conclude when using a pigmented inkjet printer like an Epson 3800 or a Canon 5100. The good dye based printers while not lasting quite as long are also lab quality.

Now that does not mean they are as water resistant or waterproof.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:

There isn't any inkjet photo printer that will produce "lab quality" photographic prints. Please remember to apply your own standards for ink quality, duration, etc., when replying. You really want to claim that an inkjet photo print, even the very best out there, will last anywhere near as long as a lab print?

July 14, 2008

Re: Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

midwest_46@yahoo.com wrote:

>

> According to my printer's manual, "This warranty does not cover:

>

> 3. Damage caused by another device or software used with this Product

> (including but not limited to damage resulting from use of non Brother-

> brand parts and Consumable and Accessory items)"

>

If your printer's warranty coverage is that important to you, use the

OEM ink. You'll sleep better. But remember this: Warranties run out, and

once they do they don't matter any more.

TJ

Sign In

Can I buy cheap Brother printer cartridges at www.ink4less.com?

Recommended Posts

Guest Arthur Entlich

Popular Days

Popular Days

Guest Leythos

Guest Leythos

Guest Unknown

Guest Michael Johnson

Guest Michael Johnson

Guest measekite

Guest measekite

Guest measekite

Guest measekite

Guest measekite

Guest measekite

Guest Gary S. Terhune

Guest measekite

Guest Gary S. Terhune

Guest Gary S. Terhune

Guest Michael Johnson

Guest Michael Johnson

Guest Leythos

Guest Leythos

Guest Leythos

Guest Gary S. Terhune

Guest Michael Johnson

Guest measekite

Guest TJ

Browse

Activity

Site Info