Guest JS Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Re: Restore I think your assessment is right on. Secure Zone does not seem to offer any significant benefits other than it's hidden so it should stop anyone from accidentally deleting any image backup files. Question, can you create a boot CD with the trial version? JS "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:OD2UfVQ6IHA.4596@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > I've had great luck with Acronis True Image 11. I'm just staying away > from using its Secure Zone capability (only needed if using the same drive > to store backup images), and the potential headaches, therein - but for > external backups and restores, it's been great. > > I use it quite frequently to backup (and sometimes restore after some > software tests!) the entire C: partition, which contains all of my > programs, data, and windows, of course (everything except for some large > collections of audio and video files which are each on their own > respective partitions). > > I purchased Acronis True Image in the box, since that way it comes on its > own Boot CD, which you can use should windows have a problem in booting > up. (You can make one if you don't, but this was easier for me. :-) > > > JS wrote: >> Thanks, you have me interested enough to try True Image on a PC I'm >> getting >> ready to perform some testing on so I might as well test True Image as >> well. >> >> JS >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:uhcp0zP6IHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> With a segue like that, how can I refuse? OK, I apologize. :-) >>> >>> JS wrote: >>>> Nonny, >>>> >>>> There are no apologies necessary from Bill, I have been following the >>>> entire >>>> thread over the last few days and Bill has asked some very good >>>> questions >>>> about Acronis. >>>> >>>> I use Ghost which (at least my older version) does not have the feature >>>> quoted by Lee: "If there is not enough space, older backups will be >>>> deleted >>>> to create free space." >>>> >>>> JS >>>> >>>> >>>> "Nonny" <i.m.nonnymous@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:2ca53b06-9a78-4dbf-acc2-2007de83d837@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Jul 17, 10:11 pm, "Bill in Co." <not_really_h...@earthlink.net> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Nonny wrote: >>>>>> On Jul 13, 10:03 am, "JS" <@> wrote: >>>>>>> In my original post I said "but the Image file can not be located on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> same drive partition.". >>>>> >>>>>>> Yes it can be on the same drive, just not the same partition. >>>>> >>>>>> Bill is old and has attention problems. A few more times telling him >>>>>> this and he might catch on. >>>>> >>>>> This was already addressed days ago. You're 4 days behind the times, >>>>> so >>>>> who really has the attention problem here? (rhetorical) >>>> >>>> But in your typical fashion, you never admitted that you were wrong >>>> and that JS was right. > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Re: Restore Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore operations, VS using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA drive. Unknown wrote: > What speed penalty? There isn't any. > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. But maybe >> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >> >> Daave wrote: >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup and restore >>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed penalty in >>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB enclosure >>>> drives). >>> >>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>> >>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>> >>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-)
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Re: Restore JS wrote: > I think your assessment is right on. Secure Zone does not seem to offer > any > significant benefits other than it's hidden so it should stop anyone from > accidentally deleting any image backup files. Well, I think the main advantage of having the Secure Zone capability was for those who have no other drives to use for backups. (Of course, they could use DVDs, but what a pain, for backing up anything as big as the entire system partition!). > Question, can you create a boot CD with the trial version? With the trial version, I don't know. I haven't had to use that boot CD very often, but it's handy, just in case. I think you can get a good feel of the program without it. > JS > > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:OD2UfVQ6IHA.4596@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> I've had great luck with Acronis True Image 11. I'm just staying away >> from using its Secure Zone capability (only needed if using the same >> drive >> to store backup images), and the potential headaches, therein - but for >> external backups and restores, it's been great. >> >> I use it quite frequently to backup (and sometimes restore after some >> software tests!) the entire C: partition, which contains all of my >> programs, data, and windows, of course (everything except for some large >> collections of audio and video files which are each on their own >> respective partitions). >> >> I purchased Acronis True Image in the box, since that way it comes on its >> own Boot CD, which you can use should windows have a problem in booting >> up. (You can make one if you don't, but this was easier for me. :-) >> >> >> JS wrote: >>> Thanks, you have me interested enough to try True Image on a PC I'm >>> getting >>> ready to perform some testing on so I might as well test True Image as >>> well. >>> >>> JS >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:uhcp0zP6IHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>> With a segue like that, how can I refuse? OK, I apologize. :-) >>>> >>>> JS wrote: >>>>> Nonny, >>>>> >>>>> There are no apologies necessary from Bill, I have been following the >>>>> entire >>>>> thread over the last few days and Bill has asked some very good >>>>> questions >>>>> about Acronis. >>>>> >>>>> I use Ghost which (at least my older version) does not have the >>>>> feature >>>>> quoted by Lee: "If there is not enough space, older backups will be >>>>> deleted >>>>> to create free space." >>>>> >>>>> JS >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Nonny" <i.m.nonnymous@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:2ca53b06-9a78-4dbf-acc2-2007de83d837@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On Jul 17, 10:11 pm, "Bill in Co." <not_really_h...@earthlink.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Nonny wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 13, 10:03 am, "JS" <@> wrote: >>>>>>>> In my original post I said "but the Image file can not be located >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> same drive partition.". >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes it can be on the same drive, just not the same partition. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill is old and has attention problems. A few more times telling him >>>>>>> this and he might catch on. >>>>>> >>>>>> This was already addressed days ago. You're 4 days behind the times, >>>>>> so >>>>>> who really has the attention problem here? (rhetorical) >>>>> >>>>> But in your typical fashion, you never admitted that you were wrong >>>>> and that JS was right.
Guest JS Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Re: Restore Thanks, JS "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:ONoaQCR6IHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > JS wrote: >> I think your assessment is right on. Secure Zone does not seem to offer >> any >> significant benefits other than it's hidden so it should stop anyone from >> accidentally deleting any image backup files. > > Well, I think the main advantage of having the Secure Zone capability was > for those who have no other drives to use for backups. (Of course, they > could use DVDs, but what a pain, for backing up anything as big as the > entire system partition!). > >> Question, can you create a boot CD with the trial version? > > With the trial version, I don't know. I haven't had to use that boot > CD very often, but it's handy, just in case. I think you can get a good > feel of the program without it. > >> JS >> >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:OD2UfVQ6IHA.4596@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> I've had great luck with Acronis True Image 11. I'm just staying away >>> from using its Secure Zone capability (only needed if using the same >>> drive >>> to store backup images), and the potential headaches, therein - but for >>> external backups and restores, it's been great. >>> >>> I use it quite frequently to backup (and sometimes restore after some >>> software tests!) the entire C: partition, which contains all of my >>> programs, data, and windows, of course (everything except for some large >>> collections of audio and video files which are each on their own >>> respective partitions). >>> >>> I purchased Acronis True Image in the box, since that way it comes on >>> its >>> own Boot CD, which you can use should windows have a problem in booting >>> up. (You can make one if you don't, but this was easier for me. :-) >>> >>> >>> JS wrote: >>>> Thanks, you have me interested enough to try True Image on a PC I'm >>>> getting >>>> ready to perform some testing on so I might as well test True Image as >>>> well. >>>> >>>> JS >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:uhcp0zP6IHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>> With a segue like that, how can I refuse? OK, I apologize. :-) >>>>> >>>>> JS wrote: >>>>>> Nonny, >>>>>> >>>>>> There are no apologies necessary from Bill, I have been following the >>>>>> entire >>>>>> thread over the last few days and Bill has asked some very good >>>>>> questions >>>>>> about Acronis. >>>>>> >>>>>> I use Ghost which (at least my older version) does not have the >>>>>> feature >>>>>> quoted by Lee: "If there is not enough space, older backups will be >>>>>> deleted >>>>>> to create free space." >>>>>> >>>>>> JS >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Nonny" <i.m.nonnymous@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:2ca53b06-9a78-4dbf-acc2-2007de83d837@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> On Jul 17, 10:11 pm, "Bill in Co." <not_really_h...@earthlink.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Nonny wrote: >>>>>>>> On Jul 13, 10:03 am, "JS" <@> wrote: >>>>>>>>> In my original post I said "but the Image file can not be located >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> same drive partition.". >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes it can be on the same drive, just not the same partition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bill is old and has attention problems. A few more times telling >>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>> this and he might catch on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This was already addressed days ago. You're 4 days behind the times, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> who really has the attention problem here? (rhetorical) >>>>>> >>>>>> But in your typical fashion, you never admitted that you were wrong >>>>>> and that JS was right. > >
Guest Unknown Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Re: Restore But what speed penalty?? You back up periodically and restore when something is damaged. There is no speed difference whatsoever in normal operations. "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:O$0Lj%23Q6IHA.2240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore operations, VS > using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA drive. > > Unknown wrote: >> What speed penalty? There isn't any. >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. But maybe >>> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >>> >>> Daave wrote: >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup and restore >>>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed penalty in >>>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB enclosure >>>>> drives). >>>> >>>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>>> >>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>>> >>>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-) > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Re: Restore Of course there is, in what I've been addressing: namely, the time it takes to backup and restore the whole C: partition, and NOT just for HD damage purposes, but for some awry software installations and/or tests, and what have you. Obviously if you don't install anything or test anything very often, it's not an issue. Unknown wrote: > But what speed penalty?? You back up periodically and restore when > something > is damaged. > There is no speed difference whatsoever in normal operations. > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:O$0Lj%23Q6IHA.2240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore operations, >> VS >> using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA drive. >> >> Unknown wrote: >>> What speed penalty? There isn't any. >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. But maybe >>>> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >>>> >>>> Daave wrote: >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup and restore >>>>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed penalty in >>>>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB enclosure >>>>>> drives). >>>>> >>>>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>>>> >>>>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-)
Guest John Barnett MVP Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore Bill, I did a re-image of my hard drive yesterday from my removable backup drive and, as you stated, the 'increase' in time to perform the task is noticeable. Of course the first 'time' deficiency is that, when using a removable drive, Acronis has to re-boot to the pre-windows environment prior to starting the copying of files. Another annoying problem with Acronis is that it doesn't seem capable of keeping an accurate time. As an example, when I first entered the pre-windows environment and the Acronis interface appeared the copying interface stated that the re-image would take 50 minutes. The next time I looked (probably 5 minutes or so later) the time had dropped to 26 minutes. You only have to wait until the time counter has reached the 1 minutes 55 second region to see that, for some unknown reason, the Acronis clock allocated 3 to 5 seconds or more for every 'real time' second, so when it states that the re-image has 1 minute 50 seconds before completion you could be sitting there for 5 minutes or more before the job actually completes. Under normal circumstances one usually leaves Acronis to get on with the job but, on this occasion, I was writing at my desk and it was only when periodically looking at the progress that I noticed this idiosyncrasy. -- -- John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows Desktop Experience Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this mail/post.. "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:uSaOLQQ6IHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Well, I went ahead and just bought an eSATA external HD enclosure, > adapter, and drive, so we'll see how that works out. I bought a Vantec > external HD enclosure. I've had good luck with Vantec external HD > enclosures before, and just love its simplicity. (The only disadvantage > being: it's a bit of a pain to remove or replace the drive inside, but > fortunately, that is rarely needed). > > As for the Secure Zone, I think it's too potentially too problematic for > me to really consider using, so that's why I did this. Plus of course > it's better to have backups on another drive, anyway. > > But I *am* expecting it to be much faster than using the USB 2.0 external > now. > Theoretically, SATA is 6 times faster (not sure if that's for SATA-1 or > SATA-2). > So this should be as fast as if I added the second drive internally. I > just don't need a second internal drive at this point. :-) > > It is interesting to note below that you didn't see much speed difference, > however. I would expect SATA or eSATA to be significantly faster than > anything done through USB 2.0, however. USB 2.0 is limited to 480 > Mbps, as I recall, and SATA to 6000 Mbps. > > John Barnett MVP wrote: >> Sorry Acronis Secure Zone isn't for you; still a removable drive is just >> as >> good. On the subject of removable drives, my drive is actually an old ATA >> drive I removed from my old PC prior to disposing of it. This ATA drive I >> installed into a portable hard drive case (USB 2.0). >> >> My desktop machine has SATA drives and, as I've pointed out before, one >> backup copy of the operating system is stored on a Partition on one of >> the >> internal hard drives and another on the removable drive. I have actually >> re-installed the operating system from both of these backups and, >> although I >> haven't timed everything to the last second, I should say, from my >> experience, that there is only 'around' a 2 or 3 minute difference in the >> time it takes to re-image the drive back between the SATA and the IDE. >> Not >> having the exact figures in front of me, it usually takes around 15 >> minutes >> to re-image my drive from the internal SATA and around 18 minutes from >> the >> removable IDE drive. >> >> -- >> >> -- >> John Barnett MVP >> Windows XP Associate Expert >> Windows Desktop Experience >> >> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >> >> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any >> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable >> for >> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of >> the >> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >> mail/post.. >> >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:eDzcVJE6IHA.3856@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>> Bill, >>>> >>>> It is possible to select a set backup from the Secure Zone. Each backup >>>> is >>>> auto-named with the ate of the backup followed by the time - for >>>> example: >>>> 17 >>>> July 2008 3:59:52PM. >>> >>> Ugh. >>> >>>> Unfortunately you can't name the file yourself; >>> >>> Ugh again. >>> >>>> however, you can add a description which will appear in the right hand >>>> pane >>>> of the restore data wizard. >>> >>> Well, at least that part is good. >>> >>>> Looking at your reply to Lee, you also asked if the backups in Secure >>>> Zone >>>> can be deleted. From what I can see he straight answer to that is No! >>>> Looks >>>> like if you want to delete anything you are going to have to completed >>>> delete the secure zone and recreate a new one. >>> >>> Well, what a bummer! >>> >>> Well, this, in conjunction with the other issue I have with the Dell >>> System Restore partition, leads me to believe it's probably best to just >>> forego using the Secure Zone. >>> At least that's the way I see it for now. Thanks. >>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John Barnett MVP >>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>> >>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>> >>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>> any >>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>> liable >>>> for >>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>> of >>>> the >>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>> mail/post.. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:eZns3t35IHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>> Bill as I mentioned in my last post without actually testing the >>>>>> Secure >>>>>> Zone >>>>>> to check whether you can actually access multiple backups I can't >>>>>> really >>>>>> comment; however, setting backing up multiple full backups isn't a >>>>>> problem, >>>>>> so I will try it and let you know what happens. >>>>> >>>>> OK, sounds good John. Thanks. More below.. >>>>> >>>>>> As for actually backing up I am not restricting myself to simply >>>>>> 'one' >>>>>> backup. My current backup scenario works as follows: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1 Full backup to Secure Zone on Primary Hard drive >>>>>> 1 Full backup to separate partition on removable hard drive >>>>>> 1 Full backup saved to DVD's (offsite and secure) >>>>>> >>>>>> The DVD backup is kept for around one month before being erased and >>>>>> recreated. The backup on the removable drive is kept for around 2 >>>>>> weeks >>>>>> before being erased and recreated. The backup on the Secure Zone is >>>>>> kept >>>>>> for >>>>>> one or two days before being erased and recreated. So, as you can >>>>>> see, >>>>>> there >>>>>> is always three backups. >>>>> >>>>> I see. >>>>> >>>>>> You might like to contact Dell about the backup partition being >>>>>> 'moved' >>>>>> as, >>>>>> once again, it is something I haven't personally tried. My current >>>>>> desktop >>>>>> is only 8 months old and came with a backup partition and >>>>>> pre-installed >>>>>> with >>>>>> Vista Home Premium. As soon as I got it home I installed Acronis and >>>>>> backed >>>>>> up Home Premium to a set of DVD's. Once that was done I deleted the >>>>>> backup >>>>>> partition and reformatted he whole hard drive. Finally I created a >>>>>> new >>>>>> partition (C: drive) and installed a retail copy of Vista Ultimate. I >>>>>> also >>>>>> have a retail copy of XP Professional running on VMware Workstation >>>>>> Virtual >>>>>> Machine software. >>>>>> >>>>>> Give me a day or so to create a couple of full backups to the Secure >>>>>> Zone >>>>>> and then I'll get back to you with the results of whether you can >>>>>> access >>>>>> 'both' (or more) or jut the latest backup from the secure zone. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. It will be interesting to hear. >>>>> >>>>> And also just how the backups are differerentiated from each other in >>>>> the >>>>> Secure Zone. I'm assuming they are "autonamed or autonumbered", >>>>> without having any identifying comments that you can ever see, so that >>>>> they'd be pretty hard to really identify, (unless you have written >>>>> some >>>>> helpful identifying info down somewhere else, with a short identifying >>>>> comment as to what each backup was for). Just like when you're NOT >>>>> using the Secure Zone, but just using Acronis to make backups on an >>>>> external drive, and then you ARE able to see the comment line on each >>>>> of >>>>> image backups when you go to make another backup. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>> >>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>>>> any >>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>> liable >>>>>> for >>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>> this >>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:ekUQDBt5IHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>>> Bill as I've said I only do full back up's not incremental >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Same here, John. I *wasn't* talking about doing incremental - I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> talking about saving *several full image backups* in the Secure >>>>>>> Zone. >>>>>>> IOW, multiple images from different dates (for potentially different >>>>>>> occasions). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and I also delete the secure Zone and create it again prior to >>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> full backup. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> OH! But that's because you apparently only want to store ONE >>>>>>> complete >>>>>>> image backup. But I don't understand why you would be so limited >>>>>>> (on >>>>>>> just storing one image backup there) - it's nice to have several >>>>>>> images >>>>>>> (for different dates). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Without actually trying an incremental backup I can't say whether >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>> the secure zone to choose a restore image - either way you need the >>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>> full >>>>>>>> backup on the secure zone to start the process. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, again, I wasn't ever talking about incremental or differential >>>>>>> backups, John - only FULL backups, but for different dates. Are >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> saying you can't do that using the Secure Zone (and be able to >>>>>>> access >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> one of them for a restore operation later)? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Acronis always puts the secure zone at the 'end' of the hard drive. >>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is something there in the first place it will delete it ( I found >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> out to my horror >>>>>>>> some years ago). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well THAT is disgusting. Lovely. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dell stores *its* system restore partition (and it's a primary >>>>>>> partition) >>>>>>> out there. (And Acronis said (in the list) it was planning to >>>>>>> move >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> (but not delete it), but, thing is, I don't think it is moveable, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> don't want to risk losing it, either). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now Paragon Hard Disk Manager puts its 'backup >>>>>>>> capsule' at the end of your last available partition (assuming you >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> sufficient unallocated space) and, of course, it can be moved, >>>>>>>> whereas >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Acronis Secure Zone cannot. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hmmm. Possibly some more potential problems here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Although I have used the Secure Zone I do find, now, that it is >>>>>>>> easier >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> just create a partition on a removable hard drive and backup to >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>> than using the Secure Zone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh, absolutely!!! >>>>>>> And that's what I've been doing up to now. But its space (on the >>>>>>> USB >>>>>>> external HD) is limited, and of course, it's slower) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But I have all this wasted space on my one internal HD that is just >>>>>>> begging to be used. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>>>> liable >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:uZu2TWe5IHA.832@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> So you mean you can't store a collection of backup images in the >>>>>>>>> Secure >>>>>>>>> Zone that are 1) easily identified and 2) can be chosen at will to >>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>> later (for a restore operation)? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well, if that's the case, it's not worth it to even try to use it, >>>>>>>>> then. >>>>>>>>> Just storing one autonamed(?) image is of little use to me. That's >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> pity, as I have LOTs of unallocated space on my one internal HD >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> begging to be used for such storage. :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Plus - when I went to try out creating a Secure Zone (but NOT the >>>>>>>>> Startup >>>>>>>>> Disk option), Acronis showed that it *also* planned on moving my >>>>>>>>> Dell >>>>>>>>> system restore partition (located near the end of the drive) in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> process. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> However, this primary partition (and the adjacent 7.8 MB >>>>>>>>> unallocated >>>>>>>>> space) is normally *unmoveable* (at least in Partition Magic), so >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> exited it at that point to be safe. Why it is unmoveable, I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> know, >>>>>>>>> but I assume it has something to do with Dell System Restore >>>>>>>>> expecting >>>>>>>>> that partition to be at a precise location on the HD (should you >>>>>>>>> select >>>>>>>>> that option at bootup using the Ctrl F11 keys). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>>>>> When using the Secure Zone ZA blocks the filename option, simply >>>>>>>>>> telling >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> that you don't need a file name. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When I backup I always create a 'full' back up not an incremental >>>>>>>>>> so, >>>>>>>>>> basically, there is only ever one backup file for selection. >>>>>>>>>> Acronis, >>>>>>>>>> therefore, self selects this file when I direct it to the secure >>>>>>>>>> zone >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> imaging back to the disk. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No >>>>>>>>>> warranty >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>>>>>> liable >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising >>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:euGrxjT5IHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>> And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been >>>>>>>>>>> discussing >>>>>>>>>>> with Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>> some access to it via explorer (just as you can with the >>>>>>>>>>> alternate >>>>>>>>>>> drive >>>>>>>>>>> backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as of yet). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the >>>>>>>>>>> Secure >>>>>>>>>>> Zone), so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup >>>>>>>>>>> images >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>> some brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can >>>>>>>>>>> readily >>>>>>>>>>> identify them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, of >>>>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> are able to type in a brief description for the backup image >>>>>>>>>>> before >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> written, and a filename, which are very helpful. I don't know >>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> can do either of those by using the Secure Zone (I read the >>>>>>>>>>> filename >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> autogenerated, for instance, and I don't know if a description >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> allowed >>>>>>>>>>> before creating the image - AND is viewable afterwards should >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> decide which image to restore). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for >>>>>>>>>>>> 'unfortunately' >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning >>>>>>>>>>>> application >>>>>>>>>>>> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to >>>>>>>>>>>> delete >>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No >>>>>>>>>>>> warranty >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> liable >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages >>>>>>>>>>>> arising >>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery >>>>>>>>>>>>>> disk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (including >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition >>>>>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Acronis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-image >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> back >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deleted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately?? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning >>>>>>>>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No >>>>>>>>>>>>>> warranty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> liable >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages >>>>>>>>>>>>>> arising >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one by one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trial >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> software. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > >
Guest Unknown Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore Completely insignificant. "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:uD5UjCS6IHA.4988@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Of course there is, in what I've been addressing: namely, the time it > takes to backup and restore the whole C: partition, and NOT just for HD > damage purposes, but for some awry software installations and/or tests, > and what have you. Obviously if you don't install anything or test > anything very often, it's not an issue. > > Unknown wrote: >> But what speed penalty?? You back up periodically and restore when >> something >> is damaged. >> There is no speed difference whatsoever in normal operations. >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:O$0Lj%23Q6IHA.2240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore operations, >>> VS >>> using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA drive. >>> >>> Unknown wrote: >>>> What speed penalty? There isn't any. >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. But >>>>> maybe >>>>> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Daave wrote: >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup and restore >>>>>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed penalty in >>>>>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB enclosure >>>>>>> drives). >>>>>> >>>>>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>>>>> >>>>>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-) > >
Guest Frog Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was looking for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. She recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method for making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in my using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup location (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 +/-). I have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would identify Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can read more about this software package here: http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ Frog Bill in Co. wrote: > And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been discussing with > Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have at least some > access to it via explorer (just as you can with the alternate drive > backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as of yet). > > Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the Secure Zone), > so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup images at least some > brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can readily identify > them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, of course you are able > to type in a brief description for the backup image before it is written, > and a filename, which are very helpful. I don't know if you can do either > of those by using the Secure Zone (I read the filename was autogenerated, > for instance, and I don't know if a description is allowed before creating > the image - AND is viewable afterwards should you want to decide which image > to restore). > > John Barnett MVP wrote: >> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for 'unfortunately' it >> is >> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning application >> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to delete it. >> It >> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >> >> -- >> >> -- >> John Barnett MVP >> Windows XP Associate Expert >> Windows Desktop Experience >> >> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >> >> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any >> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable >> for >> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of >> the >> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >> mail/post.. >> >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery disk >>>> (including >>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and any other >>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition using Acronis >>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just re-image the >>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>> >>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to back up to. >>>> This >>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be deleted by a >>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>> Unfortunately?? >>> >>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning software >>>> installed. >>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>> >>>> -- >>>> John Barnett MVP >>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>> >>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>> >>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>> any >>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable >>>> for >>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of >>>> the >>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>> mail/post.. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I have to remove >>>>> them >>>>> one by one. >>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without trial >>>>> software. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks > >
Guest John Barnett MVP Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore Frog I've also used Casper (I've beta tested every version so far), and I too found it useful. Obviously it is not as 'feature packed' as Acronis but it does the job all the same. -- -- John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows Desktop Experience Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this mail/post.. "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message news:#X2ihrb6IHA.3480@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an > earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was looking > for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. She > recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method for > making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in my > using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup location > (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 +/-). I > have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would identify > Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can read more > about this software package here: > > http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ > > Frog > > > Bill in Co. wrote: >> And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been discussing >> with Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have at least >> some access to it via explorer (just as you can with the alternate drive >> backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as of yet). >> >> Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the Secure >> Zone), so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup images at >> least some brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can readily >> identify them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, of course >> you are able to type in a brief description for the backup image before >> it is written, and a filename, which are very helpful. I don't know if >> you can do either of those by using the Secure Zone (I read the filename >> was autogenerated, for instance, and I don't know if a description is >> allowed before creating the image - AND is viewable afterwards should you >> want to decide which image to restore). >> >> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for 'unfortunately' >>> it is >>> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning application >>> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to delete >>> it. It >>> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> -- >>> John Barnett MVP >>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>> Windows Desktop Experience >>> >>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>> >>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>> any >>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable >>> for >>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of >>> the >>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>> mail/post.. >>> >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery disk >>>>> (including >>>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and any other >>>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition using >>>>> Acronis >>>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just re-image the >>>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>>> >>>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to back up >>>>> to. >>>>> This >>>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be deleted by >>>>> a >>>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>>> Unfortunately?? >>>> >>>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning software >>>>> installed. >>>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>> >>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>> >>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>>> any >>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>> accuracy, >>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>> liable >>>>> for >>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>>> mail/post.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I have to >>>>>> remove >>>>>> them >>>>>> one by one. >>>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without trial >>>>>> software. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >> >>
Guest JS Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore John, Have you tested the more recent versions of Ghost (Ver 12 or 14) and if so, what is your opinion? JS "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:eKfiQ8c6IHA.1468@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Frog I've also used Casper (I've beta tested every version so far), and I > too found it useful. Obviously it is not as 'feature packed' as Acronis > but it does the job all the same. > > -- > > -- > John Barnett MVP > Associate Expert > Windows Desktop Experience > > Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org > Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org > > The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any > kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, > reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable > for > any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of > the > use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this > mail/post.. > > > "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message > news:#X2ihrb6IHA.3480@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an >> earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was >> looking for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. She >> recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method for >> making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in my >> using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup location >> (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 +/-). I >> have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would identify >> Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can read more >> about this software package here: >> >> http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ >> >> Frog >> >> >> Bill in Co. wrote: >>> And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been discussing >>> with Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have at least >>> some access to it via explorer (just as you can with the alternate drive >>> backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as of yet). >>> >>> Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the Secure >>> Zone), so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup images at >>> least some brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can >>> readily identify them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, of >>> course you are able to type in a brief description for the backup image >>> before it is written, and a filename, which are very helpful. I don't >>> know if you can do either of those by using the Secure Zone (I read the >>> filename was autogenerated, for instance, and I don't know if a >>> description is allowed before creating the image - AND is viewable >>> afterwards should you want to decide which image to restore). >>> >>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for 'unfortunately' >>>> it is >>>> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning >>>> application >>>> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to delete >>>> it. It >>>> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John Barnett MVP >>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>> >>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>> >>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>> any >>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>> liable for >>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>> of the >>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>> mail/post.. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery disk >>>>>> (including >>>>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and any other >>>>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition using >>>>>> Acronis >>>>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just re-image the >>>>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>>>> >>>>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to back up >>>>>> to. >>>>>> This >>>>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be deleted by >>>>>> a >>>>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>>>> Unfortunately?? >>>>> >>>>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning software >>>>>> installed. >>>>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>> >>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>>>> any >>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>> liable >>>>>> for >>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>> this >>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I have to >>>>>>> remove >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> one by one. >>>>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without trial >>>>>>> software. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>> >>>
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore I don't think an hour of waiting around for it to complete is "completely insignificant". Unknown wrote: > Completely insignificant. > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:uD5UjCS6IHA.4988@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Of course there is, in what I've been addressing: namely, the time it >> takes to backup and restore the whole C: partition, and NOT just for HD >> damage purposes, but for some awry software installations and/or tests, >> and what have you. Obviously if you don't install anything or test >> anything very often, it's not an issue. >> >> Unknown wrote: >>> But what speed penalty?? You back up periodically and restore when >>> something >>> is damaged. >>> There is no speed difference whatsoever in normal operations. >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:O$0Lj%23Q6IHA.2240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore operations, >>>> VS >>>> using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA drive. >>>> >>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>> What speed penalty? There isn't any. >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. But >>>>>> maybe >>>>>> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Daave wrote: >>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup and >>>>>>>> restore >>>>>>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed penalty in >>>>>>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB enclosure >>>>>>>> drives). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-)
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore I have a trial copy of Casper 4 (didn't know it was up to 5 already), and may give it another shot with my new setup (when it arrives), although TI has been working pretty well for me. Admitedly the Smart Clone feature sounds pretty good, though. Frog wrote: > Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an > earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was > looking for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. > She recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method for > making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in > my using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup > location (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 > +/-). I have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would > identify Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can > read more about this software package here: > > http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ > > Frog > > > Bill in Co. wrote: >> And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been discussing >> with >> Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have at least some >> access to it via explorer (just as you can with the alternate drive >> backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as of yet). >> >> Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the Secure >> Zone), >> so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup images at least some >> brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can readily identify >> them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, of course you are >> able >> to type in a brief description for the backup image before it is written, >> and a filename, which are very helpful. I don't know if you can do >> either >> of those by using the Secure Zone (I read the filename was autogenerated, >> for instance, and I don't know if a description is allowed before >> creating >> the image - AND is viewable afterwards should you want to decide which >> image >> to restore). >> >> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for 'unfortunately' >>> it >>> is >>> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning application >>> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to delete >>> it. >>> It >>> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> -- >>> John Barnett MVP >>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>> Windows Desktop Experience >>> >>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>> >>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>> any >>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable >>> for >>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of >>> the >>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>> mail/post.. >>> >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery disk >>>>> (including >>>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and any other >>>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition using >>>>> Acronis >>>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just re-image the >>>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>>> >>>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to back up >>>>> to. >>>>> This >>>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be deleted by >>>>> a >>>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>>> Unfortunately?? >>>> >>>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning software >>>>> installed. >>>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>> >>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>> >>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>>> any >>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>> accuracy, >>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>> liable >>>>> for >>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>>> mail/post.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I have to >>>>>> remove >>>>>> them >>>>>> one by one. >>>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without trial >>>>>> software. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore John Barnett MVP wrote: > Bill, I did a re-image of my hard drive yesterday from my removable backup > drive and, as you stated, the 'increase' in time to perform the task is > noticeable. Yup! (It takes me about one hour for it to complete a restore operation for my 20 GB worth of data using my external USB drive - but I'm only using a 1.6 GHz CPU). It may only take 15 minutes to create a full backup image, but it takes much longer to restore one, from the external USB enclosure drive. And I'm expecting to cut that time considerably, when I upgrade to using an external eSATA backup instead of the USB thing. > Of course the first 'time' deficiency is that, when using a > removable drive, Acronis has to re-boot to the pre-windows environment > prior > to starting the copying of files. Right. > Another annoying problem with Acronis is > that it doesn't seem capable of keeping an accurate time. Right again. :-) > As an example, > when I first entered the pre-windows environment and the Acronis > interface > appeared the copying interface stated that the re-image would take 50 > minutes. The next time I looked (probably 5 minutes or so later) the time > had dropped to 26 minutes. You only have to wait until the time counter > has > reached the 1 minutes 55 second region to see that, for some unknown > reason, > the Acronis clock allocated 3 to 5 seconds or more for every 'real time' > second, so when it states that the re-image has 1 minute 50 seconds before > completion you could be sitting there for 5 minutes or more before the job > actually completes. Yes, I've witnessed all that too. But I'm pretty used to it by now. :-) > Under normal circumstances one usually leaves Acronis to get on with the > job > but, on this occasion, I was writing at my desk and it was only when > periodically looking at the progress that I noticed this idiosyncrasy. I was hoping that might have been addressed in a more recent build, but I don't know, but I'm so used to it by now that at least that's not a biggie for me. > -- > > -- > John Barnett MVP > Associate Expert > Windows Desktop Experience > > Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org > Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org > > The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any > kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, > reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable > for > any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of > the > use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this > mail/post.. > > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:uSaOLQQ6IHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Well, I went ahead and just bought an eSATA external HD enclosure, >> adapter, and drive, so we'll see how that works out. I bought a Vantec >> external HD enclosure. I've had good luck with Vantec external HD >> enclosures before, and just love its simplicity. (The only disadvantage >> being: it's a bit of a pain to remove or replace the drive inside, but >> fortunately, that is rarely needed). >> >> As for the Secure Zone, I think it's too potentially too problematic for >> me to really consider using, so that's why I did this. Plus of course >> it's better to have backups on another drive, anyway. >> >> But I *am* expecting it to be much faster than using the USB 2.0 external >> now. >> Theoretically, SATA is 6 times faster (not sure if that's for SATA-1 or >> SATA-2). >> So this should be as fast as if I added the second drive internally. I >> just don't need a second internal drive at this point. :-) >> >> It is interesting to note below that you didn't see much speed >> difference, >> however. I would expect SATA or eSATA to be significantly faster than >> anything done through USB 2.0, however. USB 2.0 is limited to 480 >> Mbps, as I recall, and SATA to 6000 Mbps. >> >> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>> Sorry Acronis Secure Zone isn't for you; still a removable drive is just >>> as >>> good. On the subject of removable drives, my drive is actually an old >>> ATA >>> drive I removed from my old PC prior to disposing of it. This ATA drive >>> I >>> installed into a portable hard drive case (USB 2.0). >>> >>> My desktop machine has SATA drives and, as I've pointed out before, one >>> backup copy of the operating system is stored on a Partition on one of >>> the >>> internal hard drives and another on the removable drive. I have actually >>> re-installed the operating system from both of these backups and, >>> although I >>> haven't timed everything to the last second, I should say, from my >>> experience, that there is only 'around' a 2 or 3 minute difference in >>> the >>> time it takes to re-image the drive back between the SATA and the IDE. >>> Not >>> having the exact figures in front of me, it usually takes around 15 >>> minutes >>> to re-image my drive from the internal SATA and around 18 minutes from >>> the >>> removable IDE drive. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> -- >>> John Barnett MVP >>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>> Windows Desktop Experience >>> >>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>> >>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>> any >>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable >>> for >>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of >>> the >>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>> mail/post.. >>> >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:eDzcVJE6IHA.3856@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>> Bill, >>>>> >>>>> It is possible to select a set backup from the Secure Zone. Each >>>>> backup >>>>> is >>>>> auto-named with the ate of the backup followed by the time - for >>>>> example: >>>>> 17 >>>>> July 2008 3:59:52PM. >>>> >>>> Ugh. >>>> >>>>> Unfortunately you can't name the file yourself; >>>> >>>> Ugh again. >>>> >>>>> however, you can add a description which will appear in the right hand >>>>> pane >>>>> of the restore data wizard. >>>> >>>> Well, at least that part is good. >>>> >>>>> Looking at your reply to Lee, you also asked if the backups in Secure >>>>> Zone >>>>> can be deleted. From what I can see he straight answer to that is No! >>>>> Looks >>>>> like if you want to delete anything you are going to have to completed >>>>> delete the secure zone and recreate a new one. >>>> >>>> Well, what a bummer! >>>> >>>> Well, this, in conjunction with the other issue I have with the Dell >>>> System Restore partition, leads me to believe it's probably best to >>>> just >>>> forego using the Secure Zone. >>>> At least that's the way I see it for now. Thanks. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>> >>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>> >>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>>> any >>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>> accuracy, >>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>> liable >>>>> for >>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>>> mail/post.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:eZns3t35IHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>> Bill as I mentioned in my last post without actually testing the >>>>>>> Secure >>>>>>> Zone >>>>>>> to check whether you can actually access multiple backups I can't >>>>>>> really >>>>>>> comment; however, setting backing up multiple full backups isn't a >>>>>>> problem, >>>>>>> so I will try it and let you know what happens. >>>>>> >>>>>> OK, sounds good John. Thanks. More below.. >>>>>> >>>>>>> As for actually backing up I am not restricting myself to simply >>>>>>> 'one' >>>>>>> backup. My current backup scenario works as follows: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 Full backup to Secure Zone on Primary Hard drive >>>>>>> 1 Full backup to separate partition on removable hard drive >>>>>>> 1 Full backup saved to DVD's (offsite and secure) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The DVD backup is kept for around one month before being erased and >>>>>>> recreated. The backup on the removable drive is kept for around 2 >>>>>>> weeks >>>>>>> before being erased and recreated. The backup on the Secure Zone is >>>>>>> kept >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> one or two days before being erased and recreated. So, as you can >>>>>>> see, >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is always three backups. >>>>>> >>>>>> I see. >>>>>> >>>>>>> You might like to contact Dell about the backup partition being >>>>>>> 'moved' >>>>>>> as, >>>>>>> once again, it is something I haven't personally tried. My current >>>>>>> desktop >>>>>>> is only 8 months old and came with a backup partition and >>>>>>> pre-installed >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> Vista Home Premium. As soon as I got it home I installed Acronis and >>>>>>> backed >>>>>>> up Home Premium to a set of DVD's. Once that was done I deleted the >>>>>>> backup >>>>>>> partition and reformatted he whole hard drive. Finally I created a >>>>>>> new >>>>>>> partition (C: drive) and installed a retail copy of Vista Ultimate. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> have a retail copy of XP Professional running on VMware Workstation >>>>>>> Virtual >>>>>>> Machine software. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Give me a day or so to create a couple of full backups to the Secure >>>>>>> Zone >>>>>>> and then I'll get back to you with the results of whether you can >>>>>>> access >>>>>>> 'both' (or more) or jut the latest backup from the secure zone. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. It will be interesting to hear. >>>>>> >>>>>> And also just how the backups are differerentiated from each other in >>>>>> the >>>>>> Secure Zone. I'm assuming they are "autonamed or autonumbered", >>>>>> without having any identifying comments that you can ever see, so >>>>>> that >>>>>> they'd be pretty hard to really identify, (unless you have written >>>>>> some >>>>>> helpful identifying info down somewhere else, with a short >>>>>> identifying >>>>>> comment as to what each backup was for). Just like when you're NOT >>>>>> using the Secure Zone, but just using Acronis to make backups on an >>>>>> external drive, and then you ARE able to see the comment line on each >>>>>> of >>>>>> image backups when you go to make another backup. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>>> liable >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:ekUQDBt5IHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>>>> Bill as I've said I only do full back up's not incremental >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Same here, John. I *wasn't* talking about doing incremental - I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> talking about saving *several full image backups* in the Secure >>>>>>>> Zone. >>>>>>>> IOW, multiple images from different dates (for potentially >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> occasions). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and I also delete the secure Zone and create it again prior to >>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> full backup. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OH! But that's because you apparently only want to store ONE >>>>>>>> complete >>>>>>>> image backup. But I don't understand why you would be so limited >>>>>>>> (on >>>>>>>> just storing one image backup there) - it's nice to have several >>>>>>>> images >>>>>>>> (for different dates). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Without actually trying an incremental backup I can't say whether >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>>> the secure zone to choose a restore image - either way you need >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>> full >>>>>>>>> backup on the secure zone to start the process. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, again, I wasn't ever talking about incremental or differential >>>>>>>> backups, John - only FULL backups, but for different dates. Are >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> saying you can't do that using the Secure Zone (and be able to >>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>> one of them for a restore operation later)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Acronis always puts the secure zone at the 'end' of the hard >>>>>>>>> drive. >>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>> is something there in the first place it will delete it ( I found >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> out to my horror >>>>>>>>> some years ago). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well THAT is disgusting. Lovely. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dell stores *its* system restore partition (and it's a primary >>>>>>>> partition) >>>>>>>> out there. (And Acronis said (in the list) it was planning to >>>>>>>> move >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> (but not delete it), but, thing is, I don't think it is moveable, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> don't want to risk losing it, either). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now Paragon Hard Disk Manager puts its 'backup >>>>>>>>> capsule' at the end of your last available partition (assuming you >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> sufficient unallocated space) and, of course, it can be moved, >>>>>>>>> whereas >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> Acronis Secure Zone cannot. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hmmm. Possibly some more potential problems here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Although I have used the Secure Zone I do find, now, that it is >>>>>>>>> easier >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> just create a partition on a removable hard drive and backup to >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>> than using the Secure Zone. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Oh, absolutely!!! >>>>>>>> And that's what I've been doing up to now. But its space (on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> USB >>>>>>>> external HD) is limited, and of course, it's slower) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But I have all this wasted space on my one internal HD that is just >>>>>>>> begging to be used. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>>>>> liable >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising >>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:uZu2TWe5IHA.832@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>> So you mean you can't store a collection of backup images in the >>>>>>>>>> Secure >>>>>>>>>> Zone that are 1) easily identified and 2) can be chosen at will >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>> later (for a restore operation)? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Well, if that's the case, it's not worth it to even try to use >>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>> then. >>>>>>>>>> Just storing one autonamed(?) image is of little use to me. >>>>>>>>>> That's >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> pity, as I have LOTs of unallocated space on my one internal HD >>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>> begging to be used for such storage. :-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Plus - when I went to try out creating a Secure Zone (but NOT the >>>>>>>>>> Startup >>>>>>>>>> Disk option), Acronis showed that it *also* planned on moving my >>>>>>>>>> Dell >>>>>>>>>> system restore partition (located near the end of the drive) in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> process. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> However, this primary partition (and the adjacent 7.8 MB >>>>>>>>>> unallocated >>>>>>>>>> space) is normally *unmoveable* (at least in Partition Magic), so >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>> exited it at that point to be safe. Why it is unmoveable, I >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> know, >>>>>>>>>> but I assume it has something to do with Dell System Restore >>>>>>>>>> expecting >>>>>>>>>> that partition to be at a precise location on the HD (should you >>>>>>>>>> select >>>>>>>>>> that option at bootup using the Ctrl F11 keys). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> When using the Secure Zone ZA blocks the filename option, simply >>>>>>>>>>> telling >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> that you don't need a file name. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When I backup I always create a 'full' back up not an >>>>>>>>>>> incremental >>>>>>>>>>> so, >>>>>>>>>>> basically, there is only ever one backup file for selection. >>>>>>>>>>> Acronis, >>>>>>>>>>> therefore, self selects this file when I direct it to the secure >>>>>>>>>>> zone >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> imaging back to the disk. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No >>>>>>>>>>> warranty >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> liable >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages >>>>>>>>>>> arising >>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:euGrxjT5IHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>> And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been >>>>>>>>>>>> discussing >>>>>>>>>>>> with Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>> some access to it via explorer (just as you can with the >>>>>>>>>>>> alternate >>>>>>>>>>>> drive >>>>>>>>>>>> backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as of yet). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the >>>>>>>>>>>> Secure >>>>>>>>>>>> Zone), so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup >>>>>>>>>>>> images >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>> some brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can >>>>>>>>>>>> readily >>>>>>>>>>>> identify them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, of >>>>>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> are able to type in a brief description for the backup image >>>>>>>>>>>> before >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> written, and a filename, which are very helpful. I don't >>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> can do either of those by using the Secure Zone (I read the >>>>>>>>>>>> filename >>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> autogenerated, for instance, and I don't know if a description >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> allowed >>>>>>>>>>>> before creating the image - AND is viewable afterwards should >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> decide which image to restore). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'unfortunately' >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning >>>>>>>>>>>>> application >>>>>>>>>>>>> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to >>>>>>>>>>>>> delete >>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No >>>>>>>>>>>>> warranty >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>>>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> liable >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages >>>>>>>>>>>>> arising >>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (including >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Acronis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-image >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deleted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warranty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arising >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one by one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trial >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> software. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
Guest Unknown Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore Geeeeze! That's only the first time you back-up. Other times are fast so it IS insignificant.. "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:uyYpAbd6IHA.1200@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >I don't think an hour of waiting around for it to complete is "completely >insignificant". > > Unknown wrote: >> Completely insignificant. >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:uD5UjCS6IHA.4988@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> Of course there is, in what I've been addressing: namely, the time it >>> takes to backup and restore the whole C: partition, and NOT just for HD >>> damage purposes, but for some awry software installations and/or tests, >>> and what have you. Obviously if you don't install anything or test >>> anything very often, it's not an issue. >>> >>> Unknown wrote: >>>> But what speed penalty?? You back up periodically and restore when >>>> something >>>> is damaged. >>>> There is no speed difference whatsoever in normal operations. >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:O$0Lj%23Q6IHA.2240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore >>>>> operations, >>>>> VS >>>>> using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA drive. >>>>> >>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>> What speed penalty? There isn't any. >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. But >>>>>>> maybe >>>>>>> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daave wrote: >>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup and >>>>>>>>> restore >>>>>>>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed penalty in >>>>>>>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB enclosure >>>>>>>>> drives). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-) > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore Nope. It is EVERY time I *restore*. It *always* takes about an hour to *restore* the system partition. (The backup time is much less, as I've pointed out) Unknown wrote: > Geeeeze! That's only the first time you back-up. Other times are fast so > it > IS insignificant.. > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:uyYpAbd6IHA.1200@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> I don't think an hour of waiting around for it to complete is "completely >> insignificant". >> >> Unknown wrote: >>> Completely insignificant. >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:uD5UjCS6IHA.4988@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> Of course there is, in what I've been addressing: namely, the time it >>>> takes to backup and restore the whole C: partition, and NOT just for HD >>>> damage purposes, but for some awry software installations and/or tests, >>>> and what have you. Obviously if you don't install anything or test >>>> anything very often, it's not an issue. >>>> >>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>> But what speed penalty?? You back up periodically and restore when >>>>> something >>>>> is damaged. >>>>> There is no speed difference whatsoever in normal operations. >>>>> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:O$0Lj%23Q6IHA.2240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore >>>>>> operations, >>>>>> VS >>>>>> using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>>> What speed penalty? There isn't any. >>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. But >>>>>>>> maybe >>>>>>>> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Daave wrote: >>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup and >>>>>>>>>> restore >>>>>>>>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed penalty >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB enclosure >>>>>>>>>> drives). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-)
Guest Frog Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore Bill, You were a part of the discussion when Anne recommended Casper to me back in February. I have found this software package to be very simple to use. When I have my USB hard drive connected, I can go to drive G or H, and it looks and acts just like my C and E on my internal drive. I have restored files, while in normal windows, from this external hard drive back to the internal hard drive with no problem. I generally find that it takes me about 2 minutes to back up my internal drive to the external drive. The CD used to start the system, when/if the normal start-up procedures stop working, requires about 3-4 minutes to load from a CD. Once loaded, it would be a simple process to restore either my C, E or both drives from the external hard drive. I think the only thing I would add to my backup system would be a second USB 500 GB hard drive, so that I would have two backups made at two different dates. Frog Bill in Co. wrote: > I have a trial copy of Casper 4 (didn't know it was up to 5 already), and > may give it another shot with my new setup (when it arrives), although TI > has been working pretty well for me. Admitedly the Smart Clone feature > sounds pretty good, though. > > Frog wrote: >> Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an >> earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was >> looking for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. >> She recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method for >> making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in >> my using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup >> location (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 >> +/-). I have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would >> identify Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can >> read more about this software package here: >> >> http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ >> >> Frog >> >> >> Bill in Co. wrote: >>> And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been discussing >>> with >>> Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have at least some >>> access to it via explorer (just as you can with the alternate drive >>> backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as of yet). >>> >>> Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the Secure >>> Zone), >>> so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup images at least some >>> brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can readily identify >>> them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, of course you are >>> able >>> to type in a brief description for the backup image before it is written, >>> and a filename, which are very helpful. I don't know if you can do >>> either >>> of those by using the Secure Zone (I read the filename was autogenerated, >>> for instance, and I don't know if a description is allowed before >>> creating >>> the image - AND is viewable afterwards should you want to decide which >>> image >>> to restore). >>> >>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for 'unfortunately' >>>> it >>>> is >>>> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning application >>>> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to delete >>>> it. >>>> It >>>> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John Barnett MVP >>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>> >>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>> >>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>> any >>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable >>>> for >>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of >>>> the >>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>> mail/post.. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery disk >>>>>> (including >>>>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and any other >>>>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition using >>>>>> Acronis >>>>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just re-image the >>>>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>>>> >>>>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to back up >>>>>> to. >>>>>> This >>>>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be deleted by >>>>>> a >>>>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>>>> Unfortunately?? >>>>> >>>>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning software >>>>>> installed. >>>>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>> >>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>>>> any >>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>> liable >>>>>> for >>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I have to >>>>>>> remove >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> one by one. >>>>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without trial >>>>>>> software. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Re: Restore Frog wrote: > Bill, > > You were a part of the discussion when Anne recommended Casper to me > back in February. I have found this software package to be very simple > to use. When I have my USB hard drive connected, I can go to drive G or > H, and it looks and acts just like my C and E on my internal drive. I > have restored files, while in normal windows, from this external hard > drive back to the internal hard drive with no problem. I generally find > that it takes me about 2 minutes to back up my internal drive to the > external drive. Yes, that is quicker (in making a *backup*), due to its Smart Cloning feature. However, more below... > The CD used to start the system, when/if the normal > start-up procedures stop working, requires about 3-4 minutes to load > from a CD. Once loaded, it would be a simple process to restore either > my C, E or both drives from the external hard drive. THAT will take much longer, and that's the issue I've been recently addressing here. More below. > I think the only > thing I would add to my backup system would be a second USB 500 GB hard > drive, so that I would have two backups made at two different dates. Why can't you use ONE backup drive to store all the backups? Oh wait a minute, I think that's a bit limiting (using Casper), in that you will HAVE to have separate partitions and separate drive letters for each and every backup you make, unlike if using True Image, where you simply have ONE partition to store all the different (filename) images. And again, I would HAVE to reclone the backup drive back to the source drive to restore, at least the way I use these programs. (I'm not ever swapping the drives, that is) > Frog > > Bill in Co. wrote: >> I have a trial copy of Casper 4 (didn't know it was up to 5 already), and >> may give it another shot with my new setup (when it arrives), although TI >> has been working pretty well for me. Admitedly the Smart Clone feature >> sounds pretty good, though. >> >> Frog wrote: >>> Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an >>> earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was >>> looking for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. >>> She recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method for >>> making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in >>> my using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup >>> location (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 >>> +/-). I have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would >>> identify Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can >>> read more about this software package here: >>> >>> http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ >>> >>> Frog >>> >>> >>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>> And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been discussing >>>> with >>>> Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have at least >>>> some >>>> access to it via explorer (just as you can with the alternate drive >>>> backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as of yet). >>>> >>>> Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the Secure >>>> Zone), >>>> so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup images at least >>>> some >>>> brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can readily identify >>>> them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, of course you are >>>> able >>>> to type in a brief description for the backup image before it is >>>> written, >>>> and a filename, which are very helpful. I don't know if you can do >>>> either >>>> of those by using the Secure Zone (I read the filename was >>>> autogenerated, >>>> for instance, and I don't know if a description is allowed before >>>> creating >>>> the image - AND is viewable afterwards should you want to decide which >>>> image >>>> to restore). >>>> >>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for 'unfortunately' >>>>> it >>>>> is >>>>> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning >>>>> application >>>>> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to delete >>>>> it. >>>>> It >>>>> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>> >>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>> >>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>>> any >>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>> accuracy, >>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>> liable >>>>> for >>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>>> mail/post.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery disk >>>>>>> (including >>>>>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and any other >>>>>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition using >>>>>>> Acronis >>>>>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just re-image >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to back up >>>>>>> to. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be deleted >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>>>>> Unfortunately?? >>>>>> >>>>>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning software >>>>>>> installed. >>>>>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>>> liable >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I have to >>>>>>>> remove >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> one by one. >>>>>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without trial >>>>>>>> software. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks
Guest Anna Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Re: Restore >> Frog wrote: >>> Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an >>> earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was >>> looking for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. >>> She recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method for >>> making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in >>> my using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup >>> location (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 >>> +/-). I have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would >>> identify Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can >>> read more about this software package here: >>> >>> http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ >>> >>> Frog > Bill in Co. wrote: >> I have a trial copy of Casper 4 (didn't know it was up to 5 already), and >> may give it another shot with my new setup (when it arrives), although TI >> has been working pretty well for me. Admitedly the Smart Clone feature >> sounds pretty good, though. "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message news:u0roREf6IHA.5440@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Bill, > > You were a part of the discussion when Anne recommended Casper to me back > in February. I have found this software package to be very simple to use. > When I have my USB hard drive connected, I can go to drive G or H, and it > looks and acts just like my C and E on my internal drive. I have restored > files, while in normal windows, from this external hard drive back to the > internal hard drive with no problem. I generally find that it takes me > about 2 minutes to back up my internal drive to the external drive. The > CD used to start the system, when/if the normal start-up procedures stop > working, requires about 3-4 minutes to load from a CD. Once loaded, it > would be a simple process to restore either my C, E or both drives from > the external hard drive. I think the only thing I would add to my backup > system would be a second USB 500 GB hard drive, so that I would have two > backups made at two different dates. > > Frog Frog: Glad you've found Casper disk-cloning program to your liking. As you have pointed out, the latest version is Casper 5. In general it doesn't seem too different from version 4. They've changed the user interface a bit - designing it a bit more "modern" I would guess. Also, corrected a bug or two. But essentially the program "feels" the same as the earlier version. Needless to say I'm not too surprised about your favorable review. We've been using the program for about two years now and have been quite impressed with it. It has become the disk-cloning program of choice for virtually every user who has experienced the program. A couple of points... 1. The CD you mention "to start the system" is, of course, the Casper "Startup Disk", a bootable CD that contains the Casper program. It is generally used only in those situations where the Casper program is not accessible on the HDD on which the program is installed because that HDD has become defective or the system so dysfunctional that it's unbootable. So the Startup Disk would ordinarily be used to access the drive (internal or external) on which the clone resides and clone those contents back to the internal (original "source") HDD - should that HDD be non-defective - or to a new HDD should that be necessary - in order to restore the system. Routine backups of the system would, of course, be effected through the use of the Casper program installed on the source HDD. 2. As you point out, a significant advantage (if not *the significant advantage*) of the Casper program in comparison with every other disk-cloning program we've worked with over the years is its rather extroardinary speed in backing up one's day-to-day working HDD through its disk-cloning process. When used on a routine basis - say every day or every other day or once a week, etc., the program takes a fraction of the time to complete the disk-cloning process because of its "SmartClone" capability. This is an enormous incentive for users to comprehensively back up their systems on a frequent basis, knowing that the operation will take a few short minutes, just as you have experienced. 3. You mention the possible need for another large external HDD in order to create "generational" clones, i.e., clones of the system at different points in time. I assume you're aware that you could multi-partition your present 500 GB HDD and clone the contents of your internal HDD to each partition at different points in time. Obviously the amount of data you would be cloning would determine whether this is feasible. Let's say for example that as a general proposition you have about 50 GB of data on your source HDD. You could then create a fair number of partitions on your external HDD to act as recipients of the cloned data at various points in time. As I'm sure you know, the Casper program easily allows one to clone the contents of the disk (or individual partition) on the "source" drive to any partition on the "destination" drive (and vice versa). And the restoration process is as simple as the backup process. You would simply choose which partition on the destination drive you wish to clone the contents back to the internal HDD. (I see where "Bill in Co.") has posted a response to your latest post. I have apparently been simply unable to explain to Bill Casper's disk-cloning process in a way that he truly understands that process. With respect to cloning the contents of one's internal HDD to this or that partition on an external HDD Bill somehow sees this as some negative implication because the various partitions containing each clone will bear different drive letters. I can't seem to make him understand that this is of no consequence since the drive letter assignment for each partition on the destination drive has absolutely no relevance should the contents of that partition be "re:cloned" back to the internal HDD for "restoration" purposes.) Anna
Guest John Barnett MVP Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Re: Restore Sadly, JS I gave up on Norton Ghost years ago, I won't even test Norton Software because it has such a bad reputation now. Originally PowerQuest Drive Image used to be my main Imaging application, then Norton took over PowerQuest, rebranded Drive Image to Ghost and, no doubt made a few internal changes, and ruined a perfectly good backup application. There are many people who still like Norton Software but, as you will see from a number of MVP's, many MVPs won't recommend it or use it. -- -- John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows Desktop Experience Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this mail/post.. "JS" <@> wrote in message news:OiutUEd6IHA.4988@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > John, > > Have you tested the more recent versions of Ghost (Ver 12 or 14) and if > so, what is your opinion? > > JS > > > "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message > news:eKfiQ8c6IHA.1468@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Frog I've also used Casper (I've beta tested every version so far), and I >> too found it useful. Obviously it is not as 'feature packed' as Acronis >> but it does the job all the same. >> >> -- >> >> -- >> John Barnett MVP >> Associate Expert >> Windows Desktop Experience >> >> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >> >> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any >> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable >> for >> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of >> the >> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >> mail/post.. >> >> >> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message >> news:#X2ihrb6IHA.3480@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an >>> earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was >>> looking for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. >>> She recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method for >>> making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in >>> my using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup >>> location (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 >>> +/-). I have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would >>> identify Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can >>> read more about this software package here: >>> >>> http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ >>> >>> Frog >>> >>> >>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>> And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been discussing >>>> with Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have at >>>> least some access to it via explorer (just as you can with the >>>> alternate drive backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as of >>>> yet). >>>> >>>> Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the Secure >>>> Zone), so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup images at >>>> least some brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can >>>> readily identify them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, of >>>> course you are able to type in a brief description for the backup image >>>> before it is written, and a filename, which are very helpful. I >>>> don't know if you can do either of those by using the Secure Zone (I >>>> read the filename was autogenerated, for instance, and I don't know if >>>> a description is allowed before creating the image - AND is viewable >>>> afterwards should you want to decide which image to restore). >>>> >>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for 'unfortunately' >>>>> it is >>>>> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning >>>>> application >>>>> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to delete >>>>> it. It >>>>> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>> >>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>> >>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>>> any >>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>> accuracy, >>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>> liable for >>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>>> of the >>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>>>> mail/post.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery disk >>>>>>> (including >>>>>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and any other >>>>>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition using >>>>>>> Acronis >>>>>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just re-image >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to back up >>>>>>> to. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be deleted >>>>>>> by a >>>>>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>>>>> Unfortunately?? >>>>>> >>>>>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning software >>>>>>> installed. >>>>>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty >>>>>>> of any >>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>>> liable >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising >>>>>>> out of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I have to >>>>>>>> remove >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> one by one. >>>>>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without trial >>>>>>>> software. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> > >
Guest Unknown Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Re: Restore Good grief! How many times do you restore????????? "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:ev4%23Kyd6IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Nope. It is EVERY time I *restore*. It *always* takes about an hour > to *restore* the system partition. (The backup time is much less, as > I've pointed out) > > Unknown wrote: >> Geeeeze! That's only the first time you back-up. Other times are fast so >> it >> IS insignificant.. >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:uyYpAbd6IHA.1200@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> I don't think an hour of waiting around for it to complete is >>> "completely >>> insignificant". >>> >>> Unknown wrote: >>>> Completely insignificant. >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:uD5UjCS6IHA.4988@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>> Of course there is, in what I've been addressing: namely, the time it >>>>> takes to backup and restore the whole C: partition, and NOT just for >>>>> HD >>>>> damage purposes, but for some awry software installations and/or >>>>> tests, >>>>> and what have you. Obviously if you don't install anything or test >>>>> anything very often, it's not an issue. >>>>> >>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>> But what speed penalty?? You back up periodically and restore when >>>>>> something >>>>>> is damaged. >>>>>> There is no speed difference whatsoever in normal operations. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:O$0Lj%23Q6IHA.2240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore >>>>>>> operations, >>>>>>> VS >>>>>>> using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA >>>>>>> drive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>>>> What speed penalty? There isn't any. >>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. But >>>>>>>>> maybe >>>>>>>>> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daave wrote: >>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup and >>>>>>>>>>> restore >>>>>>>>>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed penalty >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB enclosure >>>>>>>>>>> drives). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-) > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Re: Restore Anna wrote: >>> Frog wrote: >>>> Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an >>>> earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was >>>> looking for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. >>>> She recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method >>>> for >>>> making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in >>>> my using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup >>>> location (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 >>>> +/-). I have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would >>>> identify Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can >>>> read more about this software package here: >>>> >>>> http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ >>>> >>>> Frog > >> Bill in Co. wrote: >>> I have a trial copy of Casper 4 (didn't know it was up to 5 already), >>> and >>> may give it another shot with my new setup (when it arrives), although >>> TI >>> has been working pretty well for me. Admitedly the Smart Clone feature >>> sounds pretty good, though. > > > "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message > news:u0roREf6IHA.5440@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Bill, >> >> You were a part of the discussion when Anne recommended Casper to me back >> in February. I have found this software package to be very simple to >> use. >> When I have my USB hard drive connected, I can go to drive G or H, and it >> looks and acts just like my C and E on my internal drive. I have >> restored >> files, while in normal windows, from this external hard drive back to the >> internal hard drive with no problem. I generally find that it takes me >> about 2 minutes to back up my internal drive to the external drive. The >> CD used to start the system, when/if the normal start-up procedures stop >> working, requires about 3-4 minutes to load from a CD. Once loaded, it >> would be a simple process to restore either my C, E or both drives from >> the external hard drive. I think the only thing I would add to my backup >> system would be a second USB 500 GB hard drive, so that I would have two >> backups made at two different dates. >> >> Frog > > > Frog: > Glad you've found Casper disk-cloning program to your liking. As you have > pointed out, the latest version is Casper 5. In general it doesn't seem > too > different from version 4. They've changed the user interface a bit - > designing it a bit more "modern" I would guess. Also, corrected a bug or > two. But essentially the program "feels" the same as the earlier version. > Needless to say I'm not too surprised about your favorable review. We've > been using the program for about two years now and have been quite > impressed > with it. It has become the disk-cloning program of choice for virtually > every user who has experienced the program. > > A couple of points... > 1. The CD you mention "to start the system" is, of course, the Casper > "Startup Disk", a bootable CD that contains the Casper program. It is > generally used only in those situations where the Casper program is not > accessible on the HDD on which the program is installed because that HDD > has > become defective or the system so dysfunctional that it's unbootable. So > the > Startup Disk would ordinarily be used to access the drive (internal or > external) on which the clone resides and clone those contents back to the > internal (original "source") HDD - should that HDD be non-defective - or > to > a new HDD should that be necessary - in order to restore the system. > > Routine backups of the system would, of course, be effected through the > use > of the Casper program installed on the source HDD. > > 2. As you point out, a significant advantage (if not *the significant > advantage*) of the Casper program in comparison with every other > disk-cloning program we've worked with over the years is its rather > extroardinary speed in backing up one's day-to-day working HDD through its > disk-cloning process. When used on a routine basis - say every day or > every > other day or once a week, etc., the program takes a fraction of the time > to > complete the disk-cloning process because of its "SmartClone" capability. > This is an enormous incentive for users to comprehensively back up their > systems on a frequent basis, knowing that the operation will take a few > short minutes, just as you have experienced. > > 3. You mention the possible need for another large external HDD in order > to > create "generational" clones, i.e., clones of the system at different > points > in time. I assume you're aware that you could multi-partition your present > 500 GB HDD and clone the contents of your internal HDD to each partition > at > different points in time. Obviously the amount of data you would be > cloning > would determine whether this is feasible. Let's say for example that as a > general proposition you have about 50 GB of data on your source HDD. You > could then create a fair number of partitions on your external HDD to act > as > recipients of the cloned data at various points in time. As I'm sure you > know, the Casper program easily allows one to clone the contents of the > disk > (or individual partition) on the "source" drive to any partition on the > "destination" drive (and vice versa). And the restoration process is as > simple as the backup process. You would simply choose which partition on > the > destination drive you wish to clone the contents back to the internal HDD. > > (I see where "Bill in Co.") has posted a response to your latest post. I > have apparently been simply unable to explain to Bill Casper's > disk-cloning > process in a way that he truly understands that process. With respect to > cloning the contents of one's internal HDD to this or that partition on an > external HDD Bill somehow sees this as some negative implication because > the > various partitions containing each clone will bear different drive > letters. Well, it's just a bit of a minor nuisance, that's all. I'm probably being overly ... (don't know what the right word is here :-) > I can't seem to make him understand that this is of no consequence since > the > drive letter assignment for each partition on the destination drive has > absolutely no relevance should the contents of that partition be > "re:cloned" > back to the internal HDD for "restoration" purposes.) > Anna No Anna, I understand that part just fine. I just would prefer not to have to have separate partition drive letters show up on the backup drive for each and every backup that's made, but admitely that's not really a big deal, I guess (in retrospect).
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Re: Restore Maybe once a week. Sometimes more often, sometimes less often, depending on how much I'm messin with my system. :-) Unknown wrote: > Good grief! How many times do you restore????????? > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:ev4%23Kyd6IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Nope. It is EVERY time I *restore*. It *always* takes about an hour >> to *restore* the system partition. (The backup time is much less, as >> I've pointed out) >> >> Unknown wrote: >>> Geeeeze! That's only the first time you back-up. Other times are fast so >>> it IS insignificant.. >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:uyYpAbd6IHA.1200@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> I don't think an hour of waiting around for it to complete is >>>> "completely >>>> insignificant". >>>> >>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>> Completely insignificant. >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:uD5UjCS6IHA.4988@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Of course there is, in what I've been addressing: namely, the time it >>>>>> takes to backup and restore the whole C: partition, and NOT just for >>>>>> HD >>>>>> damage purposes, but for some awry software installations and/or >>>>>> tests, >>>>>> and what have you. Obviously if you don't install anything or test >>>>>> anything very often, it's not an issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>>> But what speed penalty?? You back up periodically and restore when >>>>>>> something >>>>>>> is damaged. >>>>>>> There is no speed difference whatsoever in normal operations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:O$0Lj%23Q6IHA.2240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>> Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore >>>>>>>> operations, >>>>>>>> VS >>>>>>>> using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA >>>>>>>> drive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>>>>> What speed penalty? There isn't any. >>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. But >>>>>>>>>> maybe >>>>>>>>>> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Daave wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup and >>>>>>>>>>>> restore >>>>>>>>>>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed penalty >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB enclosure >>>>>>>>>>>> drives). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-)
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Re: Restore I'm still using Norton Partition Magic 8 (for partition work), and also Acronis True Image, and I like the features of both. Obviously each has its place. But PM8 is the ONLY Norton product I have on here! :-) I also have BING (BootItNG), but I do find PM a bit "friendlier" and easier to use, of course, at least in most instances. But with my older Win98SE computer, I've found BING to be more than sufficient (for Partition Copy work) in its Maintenance Mode. John Barnett MVP wrote: > Sadly, JS I gave up on Norton Ghost years ago, I won't even test Norton > Software because it has such a bad reputation now. Originally PowerQuest > Drive Image used to be my main Imaging application, then Norton took over > PowerQuest, rebranded Drive Image to Ghost and, no doubt made a few > internal > changes, and ruined a perfectly good backup application. > > There are many people who still like Norton Software but, as you will see > from a number of MVP's, many MVPs won't recommend it or use it. > > > -- > > -- > John Barnett MVP > Associate Expert > Windows Desktop Experience > > Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org > Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org > > The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any > kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, > reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable > for > any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of > the > use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this > mail/post.. > > > "JS" <@> wrote in message news:OiutUEd6IHA.4988@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> John, >> >> Have you tested the more recent versions of Ghost (Ver 12 or 14) and if >> so, what is your opinion? >> >> JS >> >> >> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >> news:eKfiQ8c6IHA.1468@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> Frog I've also used Casper (I've beta tested every version so far), and >>> I >>> too found it useful. Obviously it is not as 'feature packed' as Acronis >>> but it does the job all the same. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> -- >>> John Barnett MVP >>> Associate Expert >>> Windows Desktop Experience >>> >>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>> >>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>> any >>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, >>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable >>> for >>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of >>> the >>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this >>> mail/post.. >>> >>> >>> "Frog" <frog@pond.com> wrote in message >>> news:#X2ihrb6IHA.3480@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>> Bill, you mentioned a discussion with Anna, and that reminded me of an >>>> earlier exchange I had on this group about backup software. I was >>>> looking for a backup method for my system and Anna came to my rescue. >>>> She recommended Casper 4 (now Casper 5) as a good/easy to use method >>>> for >>>> making backups. Well, the long and short of this exchange resulted in >>>> my using a 500 GB external USB connected hard drive for my backup >>>> location (under $100) and Casper 4 software for making my backups ($50 >>>> +/-). I have been extremely happy with this setup and thought I would >>>> identify Casper 5 as a good method for backing up a system. You can >>>> read more about this software package here: >>>> >>>> http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ >>>> >>>> Frog >>>> >>>> >>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>> And I would rather it would NOT be hidden (as I've also been >>>>> discussing >>>>> with Anna), since I want to know exactly what is there and have at >>>>> least some access to it via explorer (just as you can with the >>>>> alternate drive backups). But since I can't, I haven't used it (as >>>>> of >>>>> yet). >>>>> >>>>> Which reminds me: It sounds like you have used it, John (the Secure >>>>> Zone), so is there anyway to give those Secure Zone backup images at >>>>> least some brief description, or meaningful filenames, so you can >>>>> readily identify them? I mean when you don't use the Secure Zone, >>>>> of >>>>> course you are able to type in a brief description for the backup >>>>> image >>>>> before it is written, and a filename, which are very helpful. I >>>>> don't know if you can do either of those by using the Secure Zone (I >>>>> read the filename was autogenerated, for instance, and I don't know if >>>>> a description is allowed before creating the image - AND is viewable >>>>> afterwards should you want to decide which image to restore). >>>>> >>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>> Yes Bill it can be deleted from within Acronis. As for >>>>>> 'unfortunately' >>>>>> it is >>>>>> unfortunate that it is visible in a third party partitioning >>>>>> application >>>>>> because it is easy for someone not familiar with partitions to delete >>>>>> it. It >>>>>> would much rather it be 'hidden' in all applications. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>> >>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of >>>>>> any >>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>> liable for >>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out >>>>>> of the >>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>> this >>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:#sDwV$J5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> John Barnett MVP wrote: >>>>>>>> Easiest way is to install from the manufacturer's recovery disk >>>>>>>> (including >>>>>>>> all the trial software) then remove the trial software and any >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> applications you don't want and image your drive/partition using >>>>>>>> Acronis >>>>>>>> True Image. If you then experience any problems you just re-image >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Acronis image back to the drive/partition. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Acronis can actually create a 'secure' partition for you to back up >>>>>>>> to. >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> doesn't show up in windows disk management, so it can't be deleted >>>>>>>> by a >>>>>>>> third party. Unfortunately, though, it does show up, >>>>>>> Unfortunately?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and can be deleted, if you have third party partitioning software >>>>>>>> installed. >>>>>>> OR it can be deleted from within Acronis, of course. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> John Barnett MVP >>>>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert >>>>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty >>>>>>>> of any >>>>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the >>>>>>>> accuracy, >>>>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be >>>>>>>> liable >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising >>>>>>>> out of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> mail/post.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Newbie" <Newbie@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:E05C5573-17F0-4543-98A8-042DAEC666D4@microsoft.com... >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Our company uses HP and Dell workstations w/XP pro. >>>>>>>>> If system crash then we can restore back with disk image. >>>>>>>>> But their disk image come with a lot of trial software,I have to >>>>>>>>> remove >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> one by one. >>>>>>>>> Can I have a clean install then create my own disk image? >>>>>>>>> If the system crash again then I can restore back without trial >>>>>>>>> software. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks
Guest Daave Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Re: Restore I'm pretty sure that Unknown wants to know why you feel there is a need to restore a disk image when uninstalling the program you are testing and performing a System Restore (if necessary) should be adequate. It's great that you image your drive as often as you do, but the idea is you restore the image *only* if you run into actual problems that can only be reversed by restoring the image. "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:ujQbacr6IHA.3856@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Maybe once a week. Sometimes more often, sometimes less often, > depending on how much I'm messin with my system. :-) > > Unknown wrote: >> Good grief! How many times do you restore????????? >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:ev4%23Kyd6IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Nope. It is EVERY time I *restore*. It *always* takes about an >>> hour >>> to *restore* the system partition. (The backup time is much >>> less, as >>> I've pointed out) >>> >>> Unknown wrote: >>>> Geeeeze! That's only the first time you back-up. Other times are >>>> fast so >>>> it IS insignificant.. >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:uyYpAbd6IHA.1200@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>> I don't think an hour of waiting around for it to complete is >>>>> "completely >>>>> insignificant". >>>>> >>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>> Completely insignificant. >>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:uD5UjCS6IHA.4988@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Of course there is, in what I've been addressing: namely, the >>>>>>> time it >>>>>>> takes to backup and restore the whole C: partition, and NOT just >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> HD >>>>>>> damage purposes, but for some awry software installations and/or >>>>>>> tests, >>>>>>> and what have you. Obviously if you don't install anything or >>>>>>> test >>>>>>> anything very often, it's not an issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>>>> But what speed penalty?? You back up periodically and restore >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>> is damaged. >>>>>>>> There is no speed difference whatsoever in normal operations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:O$0Lj%23Q6IHA.2240@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>> Using USB external hard drives for image backup and restore >>>>>>>>> operations, >>>>>>>>> VS >>>>>>>>> using either another internal drive OR using an external eSATA >>>>>>>>> drive. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Unknown wrote: >>>>>>>>>> What speed penalty? There isn't any. >>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in >>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>> news:%23GZ64ZH6IHA.2220@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, I've heard about that, but I've been putting it off. >>>>>>>>>>> But >>>>>>>>>>> maybe >>>>>>>>>>> it's getting close to that time to take a look. :-) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Daave wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in >>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:%23EBff6F6IHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, yes. However, for just doing a quick backup >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> restore >>>>>>>>>>>>> for some software testing, there is a significant speed >>>>>>>>>>>>> penalty >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> doing that (I'm talking about using the external USB >>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosure >>>>>>>>>>>>> drives). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, eSATA drives are affordable: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822161044 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> No speed penalty whatsoever. :-) > >
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