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Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?


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Posted

I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

consignment store?

Guest Carey Frisch  [MVP]
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

If the refurbisher does not have the original recovery media,

they may be able to obtain the recovery media from the original

manufacturer of that PC. A new Windows license is required for

a refurbished PC if: The refurbisher cannot obtain the original recovery media,

 

or

 

 

The PC does not have a hard-disk based recovery image.

In this case, the refurbisher must purchase a new license in

order to deliver a genuine Windows operating system experience

with the refurbished PC.

 

--

Carey Frisch

Microsoft MVP

Windows Desktop Experience -

Windows Vista Enthusiast

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

"jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

consignment store?

Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

jho wrote:

> I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

> and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

> Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

> consignment store?

 

 

1. It's foolish to seek legal advice from a peer-populated technical

support newsgroup. Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it.

Free legal advice from a non-lawyer is worth less.

 

2. If you are really concerned, get yourself a disk wipe utility (like

the free Darik's Boot and Nuke), completely erase the hard drives and

the PCs, and sell them as "virgin" computers. It will then be up to

each purchaser to obtain and install an OS of her choice.

 

BTW, if the school didn't wipe the hard disk itself, it's probable that

there are application programs installed. Why are you more concerned

about potential issues concerning Windows XP Pro than about those

applications?

 

--

Lem -- MS-MVP

 

To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer

http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm

Guest Twayne
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

> I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

> and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

> Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

> consignment store?

 

Hmm, interesting question. You know, when they discover one instance of

illegal activity, regardless of how it comes about, they're going to

look closer to see if there was more of it. Ever. Even if the time to

prosecute has run out there are still plenty of options for civil suits

to recover damages.

If you don't have everything it takes to resell the machines with XP

installed, including the recovery methods, then you were erroneously and

possibly illegally sold these machines. It sounds like the school made

a dumb move; they should check with their own legal counsel about what

they should have done.

So, ask them for the rest of the purchase agreement if they also sold

you a license. If they didn't include the licenses, and you sell it,

you're almost certainly guilty of pirating the software.

Why wouldn't you want to wipe the drives and reformat/install them

anyway? I know I'd never buy someone else's headaches, but I guess one

really is born every second.

 

Since you asked the question, especially here on a public newsgroup, and

apparently with a working email address, a simple legal paper would get

any law enforcement agency all the info on you that exists there. Read

the tos; they always except law enforcement with legally prepared

paperwork.

 

Now, start by reading the EULA for XP. Then read the EULA for any other

software installed on those machines, whether it's MS or someone else's.

Then go to Microsoft and ask your question there. As long as you've

done nothing wrong, they're going to give you straight skinny - they

would not lie about legal issues; although it might be hard to

understand what they do say.

OTOH you could contact an attorney experienced in this sort of thing

and get better counsel, I'd think.

 

HTH, really,

 

Twayne

Guest HeyBub
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

jho wrote:

> I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

> and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

> Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

> consignment store?

 

If you were selling stolen cars, I think you'd expect more grief from your

customers than from the original owner of the car.

 

I don't mean to imply you stole anything, just that the final user of the

machine will be turning to you to straighten out any problems that come

along. The fact that you may, in turn, have recourse to the original owner

won't help in your difficulty with the latest owner.

Guest Charles Lee
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

format them all...

 

(full format too, not quick one) its also the only secure way to guarantee

your not passing on any personal data, especially with children involved...

 

 

 

"jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

> I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

> and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

> Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

> consignment store?

Guest Bruce Chambers
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

jho wrote:

> I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

> and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

 

 

There's no such thing as a corporate license.

 

> Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

> consignment store?

 

 

Not as long as you remove the clearly unlicensed Microsoft products

before selling them.

 

 

--

 

Bruce Chambers

 

Help us help you:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

 

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

 

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary

safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

 

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

 

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has

killed a great many philosophers.

~ Denis Diderot

Guest John John (MVP)
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

Format doesn't erase the data on the disk, it simply rewrites or resets

the file table and writes a boot sector to the partition, the data is

untouched. It makes no difference whether a quick or full format was

done, the data will still all be on the disk.

 

John

 

Charles Lee wrote:

> format them all...

>

> (full format too, not quick one) its also the only secure way to guarantee

> your not passing on any personal data, especially with children involved...

>

>

>

> "jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>

>>I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

>>and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

>>Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

>>consignment store?

>

>

>

Guest Ghostrider
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

 

jho wrote:

> I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

> and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

> Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

> consignment store?

 

First, it would be very doubtful that the local school would have given

you permission to re-sell its discarded computers with its volume license

edition of Windows XP still installed. If it is not in the consignment

order or agreement, it would be best to leave the thought alone and sell

the computers as "bare".

 

Second, if one were to run afoul of the law in this venture, it would

not be Microsoft that takes action but the local school. And the action

would not be for copyright infringement, violation of the EULA but whatever

the school's board members or district administrators or local government

might want to cook up.

 

Since the machines were "inherited", just be happy to collect the profits

by re-selling them "bare" or with whatever copies of Windows XP you still

might have as a retailer for an additional premium now that the rules of

"supply and demand" has kicked in on it.

Guest Charles Lee
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

surely a 'full format' writes zero's to each and every sector/track & then

verifies its written data back...?!#$?

 

 

it should be only a 'quick format' that simply only rewrites the file

allocation table and writes a boot sector to the partition....

 

or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

 

 

 

"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

news:eKXFq665IHA.1176@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Format doesn't erase the data on the disk, it simply rewrites or resets

> the file table and writes a boot sector to the partition, the data is

> untouched. It makes no difference whether a quick or full format was

> done, the data will still all be on the disk.

>

> John

>

> Charles Lee wrote:

>

>> format them all...

>>

>> (full format too, not quick one) its also the only secure way to

>> guarantee your not passing on any personal data, especially with children

>> involved...

>>

>>

>>

>> "jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>> news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>>

>>>I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

>>>and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

>>>Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

>>>consignment store?

>>

>>

Guest John John (MVP)
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

No it doesn't, it writes a boot sector, new file table, and scans the

disk for bad sectors. A quick format doesn't scan for bad sectors,

scanning for bad sector is what takes time when you do a full format.

Either way the files are all still untouched on the disk for anyone to

easily recover.

 

John

 

Charles Lee wrote:

> surely a 'full format' writes zero's to each and every sector/track & then

> verifies its written data back...?!#$?

>

>

> it should be only a 'quick format' that simply only rewrites the file

> allocation table and writes a boot sector to the partition....

>

> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>

>

>

> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

> news:eKXFq665IHA.1176@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>

>>Format doesn't erase the data on the disk, it simply rewrites or resets

>>the file table and writes a boot sector to the partition, the data is

>>untouched. It makes no difference whether a quick or full format was

>>done, the data will still all be on the disk.

>>

>>John

>>

>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>

>>

>>>format them all...

>>>

>>>(full format too, not quick one) its also the only secure way to

>>>guarantee your not passing on any personal data, especially with children

>>>involved...

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>"jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>>>news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>>>

>>>

>>>>I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

>>>>and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

>>>>Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

>>>>consignment store?

>>>

>>>

>

Guest John John (MVP)
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

Charles Lee wrote:

> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

 

No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from

the operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be

arranged in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available.

There is no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available

to the operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a

new hard disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping"

utility, nothing to do with formatting at all.

 

John.

Guest Charles Lee
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

 

even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's, not

just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for the

old Atari in a cartridge....

 

when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout each

sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

 

 

if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous...

 

 

 

"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Charles Lee wrote:

>

>> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>

> No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from the

> operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be arranged

> in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There is

> no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the

> operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new hard

> disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, nothing

> to do with formatting at all.

>

> John.

Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

jho wrote:

> I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

> and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

> Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

> consignment store?

 

If the computers aren't too old, it's possible that you can create

restore disks from the hidden partition. You can find the Product Key by

using the tool at this web site: http://www.magicaljellybean.com/

 

Despite what others have said here, if the XP installs are OEM and you

were given the computers, you were also given the licenses.

 

P

Guest John John (MVP)
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT

format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is

absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What

was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were

no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to

zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use.

The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to

zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping

utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your

500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's

standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the

formatting process with this unnecessary step.

 

John

 

Charles Lee wrote:

> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

>

> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's, not

> just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for the

> old Atari in a cartridge....

>

> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout each

> sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

>

>

> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous...

>

>

>

> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>

>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>

>>

>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>>

>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from the

>>operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be arranged

>>in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There is

>>no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the

>>operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new hard

>>disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, nothing

>>to do with formatting at all.

>>

>>John.

>

>

>

Guest Charles Lee
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

how does chkdsk work then, does it only check checksums... don't it write

anything at all during format to check working sectors for 'sticky bits', if

it don't, then chkdsk would be a waste of space too.... I was under the

impression it was thorough....

So far, from what your saying, the full format dont write any sector data at

all and chkdsk doesn't check for the common problem of 'sticky bits' which

all magnetic media suffer from...

 

 

you seem to think it takes ages to write zero's...????

 

whole tracks get written very quickly & the track buffer must contain data

regardless of whether its all zero's or not....

 

it's only if a program has to write to individual sectors instead of

complete tracks that would take ages...

 

 

 

here's a test for you, what do you think a 'low level format' is then....???

 

 

 

"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

news:%23ByQguA6IHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT format

> utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is absolutely

> no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What was done on

> the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were no 250 or

> 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to zero fill a

> hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. The format

> utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to zero fill the

> drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping utility and then

> wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your 500GB drive with

> zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's standards) takes quite

> a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the formatting process with

> this unnecessary step.

>

> John

>

> Charles Lee wrote:

>

>> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

>>

>> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's,

>> not just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic

>> for the old Atari in a cartridge....

>>

>> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout

>> each sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

>>

>>

>> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous...

>>

>>

>>

>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

>> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>

>>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>>>

>>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from

>>>the operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be

>>>arranged in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available.

>>>There is no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to

>>>the operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new

>>>hard disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility,

>>>nothing to do with formatting at all.

>>>

>>>John.

>>

>>

>>

>

Guest Unknown
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

Sticky bits is NOT a common problem for magnetic media.

"Charles Lee" <No_Spam@for.me> wrote in message

news:%23l0AqtC6IHA.5052@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> how does chkdsk work then, does it only check checksums... don't it write

> anything at all during format to check working sectors for 'sticky bits',

> if it don't, then chkdsk would be a waste of space too.... I was under the

> impression it was thorough....

> So far, from what your saying, the full format dont write any sector data

> at all and chkdsk doesn't check for the common problem of 'sticky bits'

> which all magnetic media suffer from...

>

>

> you seem to think it takes ages to write zero's...????

>

> whole tracks get written very quickly & the track buffer must contain data

> regardless of whether its all zero's or not....

>

> it's only if a program has to write to individual sectors instead of

> complete tracks that would take ages...

>

>

>

> here's a test for you, what do you think a 'low level format' is

> then....???

>

>

>

> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

> news:%23ByQguA6IHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT

>> format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is

>> absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What

>> was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were

>> no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to

>> zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use.

>> The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to

>> zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping

>> utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your

>> 500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's

>> standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the

>> formatting process with this unnecessary step.

>>

>> John

>>

>> Charles Lee wrote:

>>

>>> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

>>>

>>> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's,

>>> not just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic

>>> for the old Atari in a cartridge....

>>>

>>> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout

>>> each sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

>>>

>>>

>>> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous...

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

>>> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>

>>>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>>>>

>>>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from

>>>>the operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be

>>>>arranged in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available.

>>>>There is no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to

>>>>the operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new

>>>>hard disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility,

>>>>nothing to do with formatting at all.

>>>>

>>>>John.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

Guest John John (MVP)
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

When was the last time that you wiped or "zero filled" a drive? It

takes a long time to zero fill a hard drive. I don't know the exact

method that Chkdsk uses to test for bad sectors but it surely doesn't

write and read zeros or else it would wipe all the data on the drive

when it checks it! Low level formats no longer exist, these are

antiquated terms from the long gone days of MFM hard drives, that was

eons ago, and it has nothing at all to do with formatting for the use of

an operating system, it isn't and wasn't the same thing at all and quite

frankly it is a procedure that was rarely ever required.

 

No Windows versions has ever zero filled hard disks when it formats

them, formatting a hard drive leaves all the data intact on the hard

drive, it's been like that since Windows 95, and it has been like that

since day one with the NT class operating systems. If you don't believe

me then try it and find out for yourself! Format a hard disk then use a

disk editor and take a look at the drive, you will see a new file table

and new boot sector (if you change the file system type) but otherwise

you will still see all the sectors in the data area untouched! That the

formatting utility doesn't zero fill the drive is why it is possible to

recover data on formatted drives, even MS-DOS could "unformat" a drive,

a feat that would have been absolutely impossible if the data area had

been overwritten with zeros.

 

John

 

Charles Lee wrote:

> how does chkdsk work then, does it only check checksums... don't it write

> anything at all during format to check working sectors for 'sticky bits', if

> it don't, then chkdsk would be a waste of space too.... I was under the

> impression it was thorough....

> So far, from what your saying, the full format dont write any sector data at

> all and chkdsk doesn't check for the common problem of 'sticky bits' which

> all magnetic media suffer from...

>

>

> you seem to think it takes ages to write zero's...????

>

> whole tracks get written very quickly & the track buffer must contain data

> regardless of whether its all zero's or not....

>

> it's only if a program has to write to individual sectors instead of

> complete tracks that would take ages...

>

>

>

> here's a test for you, what do you think a 'low level format' is then....???

>

>

>

> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

> news:%23ByQguA6IHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>

>>There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT format

>>utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is absolutely

>>no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What was done on

>>the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were no 250 or

>>500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to zero fill a

>>hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. The format

>>utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to zero fill the

>>drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping utility and then

>>wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your 500GB drive with

>>zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's standards) takes quite

>>a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the formatting process with

>>this unnecessary step.

>>

>>John

>>

>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>

>>

>>>Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

>>>

>>>even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's,

>>>not just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic

>>>for the old Atari in a cartridge....

>>>

>>>when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout

>>>each sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

>>>

>>>

>>>if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous...

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

>>>news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>

>>>

>>>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>>>>

>>>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from

>>>>the operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be

>>>>arranged in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available.

>>>>There is no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to

>>>>the operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new

>>>>hard disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility,

>>>>nothing to do with formatting at all.

>>>>

>>>>John.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>

>

Guest Ghostrider
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

 

P wrote:

> jho wrote:

>

>> I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro

>> and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure.

>> Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail

>> consignment store?

>

>

> If the computers aren't too old, it's possible that you can create

> restore disks from the hidden partition. You can find the Product Key by

> using the tool at this web site: http://www.magicaljellybean.com/

>

> Despite what others have said here, if the XP installs are OEM and you

> were given the computers, you were also given the licenses.

>

> P

 

IIRC, the fine print concerning OEM re-sales that includes Windows

XP is that it must also include the Windows XP installation cdrom or

recovery partition or disc, manuals and the COA sticker. Nothing is

"automatic" any more.

Guest Bill in Co.
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential):

 

I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL format

option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct? (I'm

just talking about floppies)

 

John John (MVP) wrote:

> There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT

> format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is

> absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What

> was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were

> no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to

> zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use.

> The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to

> zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping

> utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your

> 500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's

> standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the

> formatting process with this unnecessary step.

>

> John

>

> Charles Lee wrote:

>

>> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

>>

>> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's,

>> not

>> just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for

>> the

>> old Atari in a cartridge....

>>

>> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout

>> each

>> sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

>>

>>

>> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous...

>>

>>

>>

>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

>> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>

>>> Charles Lee wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>>>

>>> No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from

>>> the

>>> operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be

>>> arranged

>>> in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There is

>>> no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the

>>> operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new hard

>>> disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility,

>>> nothing

>>> to do with formatting at all.

>>>

>>> John.

Guest John John (MVP)
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

With floppies you can use the /u switch, the switch does nothing with

hard drives.

 

John

 

Bill in Co. wrote:

> Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential):

>

> I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL format

> option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct? (I'm

> just talking about floppies)

>

> John John (MVP) wrote:

>

>>There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT

>>format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is

>>absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What

>>was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were

>>no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to

>>zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use.

>>The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to

>>zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping

>>utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your

>>500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's

>>standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the

>>formatting process with this unnecessary step.

>>

>>John

>>

>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>

>>

>>>Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

>>>

>>>even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's,

>>>not

>>>just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for

>>>the

>>>old Atari in a cartridge....

>>>

>>>when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout

>>>each

>>>sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

>>>

>>>

>>>if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous...

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

>>>news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>

>>>

>>>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>>>>

>>>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from

>>>>the

>>>>operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be

>>>>arranged

>>>>in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There is

>>>>no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the

>>>>operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new hard

>>>>disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility,

>>>>nothing

>>>>to do with formatting at all.

>>>>

>>>>John.

>

>

>

Guest Bill in Co.
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

1) The /u is for unformat?

2) I had thought that once a floppy was formatted (full format), it did

write out zeroes, but you didn't address that. (But I understand that this

doesn't apply to HDs, however.

 

John John (MVP) wrote:

> With floppies you can use the /u switch, the switch does nothing with

> hard drives.

>

> John

>

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>

>> Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential):

>>

>> I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL

>> format

>> option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct?

>> (I'm

>> just talking about floppies)

>>

>> John John (MVP) wrote:

>>

>>> There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT

>>> format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is

>>> absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What

>>> was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were

>>> no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to

>>> zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use.

>>> The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to

>>> zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping

>>> utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your

>>> 500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's

>>> standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the

>>> formatting process with this unnecessary step.

>>>

>>> John

>>>

>>> Charles Lee wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

>>>>

>>>> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with

>>>> zero's,

>>>> not

>>>> just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for

>>>> the

>>>> old Atari in a cartridge....

>>>>

>>>> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout

>>>> each

>>>> sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous...

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

>>>> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> Charles Lee wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>>>>>

>>>>> No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from

>>>>> the

>>>>> operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be

>>>>> arranged

>>>>> in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There

>>>>> is

>>>>> no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the

>>>>> operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new

>>>>> hard

>>>>> disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility,

>>>>> nothing

>>>>> to do with formatting at all.

>>>>>

>>>>> John.

Guest John John (MVP)
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

No, it's for unconditional. FORMAT a: /u I beleive that doing a full

format on a floppy does the same thing, but these things don't apply to

hard disks.

 

John

 

Bill in Co. wrote:

> 1) The /u is for unformat?

> 2) I had thought that once a floppy was formatted (full format), it did

> write out zeroes, but you didn't address that. (But I understand that this

> doesn't apply to HDs, however.

>

> John John (MVP) wrote:

>

>>With floppies you can use the /u switch, the switch does nothing with

>>hard drives.

>>

>>John

>>

>>Bill in Co. wrote:

>>

>>

>>>Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential):

>>>

>>>I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL

>>>format

>>>option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct?

>>>(I'm

>>>just talking about floppies)

>>>

>>>John John (MVP) wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>>There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT

>>>>format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is

>>>>absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What

>>>>was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were

>>>>no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to

>>>>zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use.

>>>>The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to

>>>>zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping

>>>>utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your

>>>>500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's

>>>>standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the

>>>>formatting process with this unnecessary step.

>>>>

>>>>John

>>>>

>>>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

>>>>>

>>>>>even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with

>>>>>zero's,

>>>>>not

>>>>>just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for

>>>>>the

>>>>>old Atari in a cartridge....

>>>>>

>>>>>when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout

>>>>>each

>>>>>sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous...

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>>Charles Lee wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from

>>>>>>the

>>>>>>operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be

>>>>>>arranged

>>>>>>in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There

>>>>>>is

>>>>>>no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the

>>>>>>operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new

>>>>>>hard

>>>>>>disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility,

>>>>>>nothing

>>>>>>to do with formatting at all.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>John.

>

>

>

Guest Bill in Co.
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

John John (MVP) wrote:

> No, it's for unconditional. FORMAT a: /u

 

Oh, OK.

> I beleive that doing a full

> format on a floppy does the same thing, but these things don't apply to

> hard disks.

 

Does the same thing as what?

As I said (but I could be wrong), I believe that a FULL format on a floppy

DOES write out zeroes (or whatever; maybe it's FFs), throughout the entire

disk, so that it would be impossible to recover anything, afterwards. (I'm

talking only about floppies here, and using the full (not quick) format).

 

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>

>> 1) The /u is for unformat?

>> 2) I had thought that once a floppy was formatted (full format), it did

>> write out zeroes, but you didn't address that. (But I understand that

>> this

>> doesn't apply to HDs, however.

>>

>> John John (MVP) wrote:

>>

>>> With floppies you can use the /u switch, the switch does nothing with

>>> hard drives.

>>>

>>> John

>>>

>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>> Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential):

>>>>

>>>> I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL

>>>> format

>>>> option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct?

>>>> (I'm

>>>> just talking about floppies)

>>>>

>>>> John John (MVP) wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT

>>>>> format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is

>>>>> absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What

>>>>> was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there

>>>>> were

>>>>> no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want

>>>>> to

>>>>> zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use.

>>>>> The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to

>>>>> zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping

>>>>> utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills

>>>>> your

>>>>> 500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's

>>>>> standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the

>>>>> formatting process with this unnecessary step.

>>>>>

>>>>> John

>>>>>

>>>>> Charles Lee wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but....

>>>>>>

>>>>>> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with

>>>>>> zero's,

>>>>>> not

>>>>>> just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic

>>>>>> for

>>>>>> the

>>>>>> old Atari in a cartridge....

>>>>>>

>>>>>> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones

>>>>>> throughout

>>>>>> each

>>>>>> sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately

>>>>>> rediculous...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Charles Lee wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool

>>>>>>>> properly...

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files

>>>>>>> from

>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>> operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be

>>>>>>> arranged

>>>>>>> in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available.

>>>>>>> There

>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>> no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the

>>>>>>> operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new

>>>>>>> hard

>>>>>>> disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility,

>>>>>>> nothing

>>>>>>> to do with formatting at all.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> John.

Guest John John (MVP)
Posted

Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA?

 

Bill in Co. wrote:

> John John (MVP) wrote:

>

>>No, it's for unconditional. FORMAT a: /u

>

>

> Oh, OK.

>

>

>>I beleive that doing a full

>>format on a floppy does the same thing, but these things don't apply to

>>hard disks.

>

>

> Does the same thing as what?

 

As using the /u switch, it destroys all data on the floppy disk.

 

John

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