Guest jho Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail consignment store?
Guest Carey Frisch [MVP] Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? If the refurbisher does not have the original recovery media, they may be able to obtain the recovery media from the original manufacturer of that PC. A new Windows license is required for a refurbished PC if: The refurbisher cannot obtain the original recovery media, or The PC does not have a hard-disk based recovery image. In this case, the refurbisher must purchase a new license in order to deliver a genuine Windows operating system experience with the refurbished PC. -- Carey Frisch Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience - Windows Vista Enthusiast --------------------------------------------------------------- "jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail consignment store?
Guest Lem Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? jho wrote: > I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro > and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. > Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail > consignment store? 1. It's foolish to seek legal advice from a peer-populated technical support newsgroup. Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it. Free legal advice from a non-lawyer is worth less. 2. If you are really concerned, get yourself a disk wipe utility (like the free Darik's Boot and Nuke), completely erase the hard drives and the PCs, and sell them as "virgin" computers. It will then be up to each purchaser to obtain and install an OS of her choice. BTW, if the school didn't wipe the hard disk itself, it's probable that there are application programs installed. Why are you more concerned about potential issues concerning Windows XP Pro than about those applications? -- Lem -- MS-MVP To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm
Guest Twayne Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? > I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro > and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. > Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail > consignment store? Hmm, interesting question. You know, when they discover one instance of illegal activity, regardless of how it comes about, they're going to look closer to see if there was more of it. Ever. Even if the time to prosecute has run out there are still plenty of options for civil suits to recover damages. If you don't have everything it takes to resell the machines with XP installed, including the recovery methods, then you were erroneously and possibly illegally sold these machines. It sounds like the school made a dumb move; they should check with their own legal counsel about what they should have done. So, ask them for the rest of the purchase agreement if they also sold you a license. If they didn't include the licenses, and you sell it, you're almost certainly guilty of pirating the software. Why wouldn't you want to wipe the drives and reformat/install them anyway? I know I'd never buy someone else's headaches, but I guess one really is born every second. Since you asked the question, especially here on a public newsgroup, and apparently with a working email address, a simple legal paper would get any law enforcement agency all the info on you that exists there. Read the tos; they always except law enforcement with legally prepared paperwork. Now, start by reading the EULA for XP. Then read the EULA for any other software installed on those machines, whether it's MS or someone else's. Then go to Microsoft and ask your question there. As long as you've done nothing wrong, they're going to give you straight skinny - they would not lie about legal issues; although it might be hard to understand what they do say. OTOH you could contact an attorney experienced in this sort of thing and get better counsel, I'd think. HTH, really, Twayne
Guest HeyBub Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? jho wrote: > I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro > and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. > Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail > consignment store? If you were selling stolen cars, I think you'd expect more grief from your customers than from the original owner of the car. I don't mean to imply you stole anything, just that the final user of the machine will be turning to you to straighten out any problems that come along. The fact that you may, in turn, have recourse to the original owner won't help in your difficulty with the latest owner.
Guest Charles Lee Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? format them all... (full format too, not quick one) its also the only secure way to guarantee your not passing on any personal data, especially with children involved... "jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro > and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. > Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail > consignment store?
Guest Bruce Chambers Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? jho wrote: > I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro > and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. There's no such thing as a corporate license. > Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail > consignment store? Not as long as you remove the clearly unlicensed Microsoft products before selling them. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? Format doesn't erase the data on the disk, it simply rewrites or resets the file table and writes a boot sector to the partition, the data is untouched. It makes no difference whether a quick or full format was done, the data will still all be on the disk. John Charles Lee wrote: > format them all... > > (full format too, not quick one) its also the only secure way to guarantee > your not passing on any personal data, especially with children involved... > > > > "jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > >>I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro >>and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. >>Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail >>consignment store? > > >
Guest Ghostrider Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? jho wrote: > I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro > and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. > Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail > consignment store? First, it would be very doubtful that the local school would have given you permission to re-sell its discarded computers with its volume license edition of Windows XP still installed. If it is not in the consignment order or agreement, it would be best to leave the thought alone and sell the computers as "bare". Second, if one were to run afoul of the law in this venture, it would not be Microsoft that takes action but the local school. And the action would not be for copyright infringement, violation of the EULA but whatever the school's board members or district administrators or local government might want to cook up. Since the machines were "inherited", just be happy to collect the profits by re-selling them "bare" or with whatever copies of Windows XP you still might have as a retailer for an additional premium now that the rules of "supply and demand" has kicked in on it.
Guest Charles Lee Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? surely a 'full format' writes zero's to each and every sector/track & then verifies its written data back...?!#$? it should be only a 'quick format' that simply only rewrites the file allocation table and writes a boot sector to the partition.... or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message news:eKXFq665IHA.1176@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Format doesn't erase the data on the disk, it simply rewrites or resets > the file table and writes a boot sector to the partition, the data is > untouched. It makes no difference whether a quick or full format was > done, the data will still all be on the disk. > > John > > Charles Lee wrote: > >> format them all... >> >> (full format too, not quick one) its also the only secure way to >> guarantee your not passing on any personal data, especially with children >> involved... >> >> >> >> "jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >> >>>I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro >>>and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. >>>Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail >>>consignment store? >> >>
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? No it doesn't, it writes a boot sector, new file table, and scans the disk for bad sectors. A quick format doesn't scan for bad sectors, scanning for bad sector is what takes time when you do a full format. Either way the files are all still untouched on the disk for anyone to easily recover. John Charles Lee wrote: > surely a 'full format' writes zero's to each and every sector/track & then > verifies its written data back...?!#$? > > > it should be only a 'quick format' that simply only rewrites the file > allocation table and writes a boot sector to the partition.... > > or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... > > > > "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message > news:eKXFq665IHA.1176@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > >>Format doesn't erase the data on the disk, it simply rewrites or resets >>the file table and writes a boot sector to the partition, the data is >>untouched. It makes no difference whether a quick or full format was >>done, the data will still all be on the disk. >> >>John >> >>Charles Lee wrote: >> >> >>>format them all... >>> >>>(full format too, not quick one) its also the only secure way to >>>guarantee your not passing on any personal data, especially with children >>>involved... >>> >>> >>> >>>"jho" <jhogan0101@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>news:ca1e90f6-9da0-43ba-b7d5-bef1d3a06a54@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >>> >>> >>>>I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro >>>>and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. >>>>Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail >>>>consignment store? >>> >>> >
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? Charles Lee wrote: > or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from the operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be arranged in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There is no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new hard disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, nothing to do with formatting at all. John.
Guest Charles Lee Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's, not just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for the old Atari in a cartridge.... when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout each sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous... "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Charles Lee wrote: > >> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... > > No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from the > operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be arranged > in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There is > no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the > operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new hard > disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, nothing > to do with formatting at all. > > John.
Guest P Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? jho wrote: > I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro > and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. > Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail > consignment store? If the computers aren't too old, it's possible that you can create restore disks from the hidden partition. You can find the Product Key by using the tool at this web site: http://www.magicaljellybean.com/ Despite what others have said here, if the XP installs are OEM and you were given the computers, you were also given the licenses. P
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your 500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the formatting process with this unnecessary step. John Charles Lee wrote: > Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... > > even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's, not > just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for the > old Atari in a cartridge.... > > when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout each > sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... > > > if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous... > > > > "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message > news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > >>Charles Lee wrote: >> >> >>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... >> >>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from the >>operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be arranged >>in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There is >>no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the >>operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new hard >>disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, nothing >>to do with formatting at all. >> >>John. > > >
Guest Charles Lee Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? how does chkdsk work then, does it only check checksums... don't it write anything at all during format to check working sectors for 'sticky bits', if it don't, then chkdsk would be a waste of space too.... I was under the impression it was thorough.... So far, from what your saying, the full format dont write any sector data at all and chkdsk doesn't check for the common problem of 'sticky bits' which all magnetic media suffer from... you seem to think it takes ages to write zero's...???? whole tracks get written very quickly & the track buffer must contain data regardless of whether its all zero's or not.... it's only if a program has to write to individual sectors instead of complete tracks that would take ages... here's a test for you, what do you think a 'low level format' is then....??? "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message news:%23ByQguA6IHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT format > utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is absolutely > no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What was done on > the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were no 250 or > 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to zero fill a > hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. The format > utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to zero fill the > drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping utility and then > wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your 500GB drive with > zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's standards) takes quite > a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the formatting process with > this unnecessary step. > > John > > Charles Lee wrote: > >> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... >> >> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's, >> not just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic >> for the old Atari in a cartridge.... >> >> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout >> each sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... >> >> >> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous... >> >> >> >> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> >>>Charles Lee wrote: >>> >>> >>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... >>> >>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from >>>the operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be >>>arranged in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. >>>There is no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to >>>the operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new >>>hard disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, >>>nothing to do with formatting at all. >>> >>>John. >> >> >> >
Guest Unknown Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? Sticky bits is NOT a common problem for magnetic media. "Charles Lee" <No_Spam@for.me> wrote in message news:%23l0AqtC6IHA.5052@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > how does chkdsk work then, does it only check checksums... don't it write > anything at all during format to check working sectors for 'sticky bits', > if it don't, then chkdsk would be a waste of space too.... I was under the > impression it was thorough.... > So far, from what your saying, the full format dont write any sector data > at all and chkdsk doesn't check for the common problem of 'sticky bits' > which all magnetic media suffer from... > > > you seem to think it takes ages to write zero's...???? > > whole tracks get written very quickly & the track buffer must contain data > regardless of whether its all zero's or not.... > > it's only if a program has to write to individual sectors instead of > complete tracks that would take ages... > > > > here's a test for you, what do you think a 'low level format' is > then....??? > > > > "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message > news:%23ByQguA6IHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT >> format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is >> absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What >> was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were >> no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to >> zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. >> The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to >> zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping >> utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your >> 500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's >> standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the >> formatting process with this unnecessary step. >> >> John >> >> Charles Lee wrote: >> >>> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... >>> >>> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's, >>> not just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic >>> for the old Atari in a cartridge.... >>> >>> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout >>> each sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... >>> >>> >>> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous... >>> >>> >>> >>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >>> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> >>>>Charles Lee wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... >>>> >>>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from >>>>the operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be >>>>arranged in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. >>>>There is no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to >>>>the operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new >>>>hard disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, >>>>nothing to do with formatting at all. >>>> >>>>John. >>> >>> >>> >> > >
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? When was the last time that you wiped or "zero filled" a drive? It takes a long time to zero fill a hard drive. I don't know the exact method that Chkdsk uses to test for bad sectors but it surely doesn't write and read zeros or else it would wipe all the data on the drive when it checks it! Low level formats no longer exist, these are antiquated terms from the long gone days of MFM hard drives, that was eons ago, and it has nothing at all to do with formatting for the use of an operating system, it isn't and wasn't the same thing at all and quite frankly it is a procedure that was rarely ever required. No Windows versions has ever zero filled hard disks when it formats them, formatting a hard drive leaves all the data intact on the hard drive, it's been like that since Windows 95, and it has been like that since day one with the NT class operating systems. If you don't believe me then try it and find out for yourself! Format a hard disk then use a disk editor and take a look at the drive, you will see a new file table and new boot sector (if you change the file system type) but otherwise you will still see all the sectors in the data area untouched! That the formatting utility doesn't zero fill the drive is why it is possible to recover data on formatted drives, even MS-DOS could "unformat" a drive, a feat that would have been absolutely impossible if the data area had been overwritten with zeros. John Charles Lee wrote: > how does chkdsk work then, does it only check checksums... don't it write > anything at all during format to check working sectors for 'sticky bits', if > it don't, then chkdsk would be a waste of space too.... I was under the > impression it was thorough.... > So far, from what your saying, the full format dont write any sector data at > all and chkdsk doesn't check for the common problem of 'sticky bits' which > all magnetic media suffer from... > > > you seem to think it takes ages to write zero's...???? > > whole tracks get written very quickly & the track buffer must contain data > regardless of whether its all zero's or not.... > > it's only if a program has to write to individual sectors instead of > complete tracks that would take ages... > > > > here's a test for you, what do you think a 'low level format' is then....??? > > > > "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message > news:%23ByQguA6IHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > >>There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT format >>utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is absolutely >>no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What was done on >>the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were no 250 or >>500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to zero fill a >>hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. The format >>utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to zero fill the >>drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping utility and then >>wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your 500GB drive with >>zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's standards) takes quite >>a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the formatting process with >>this unnecessary step. >> >>John >> >>Charles Lee wrote: >> >> >>>Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... >>> >>>even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's, >>>not just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic >>>for the old Atari in a cartridge.... >>> >>>when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout >>>each sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... >>> >>> >>>if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous... >>> >>> >>> >>>"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >>>news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> >>> >>>>Charles Lee wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... >>>> >>>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from >>>>the operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be >>>>arranged in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. >>>>There is no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to >>>>the operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new >>>>hard disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, >>>>nothing to do with formatting at all. >>>> >>>>John. >>> >>> >>> > >
Guest Ghostrider Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? P wrote: > jho wrote: > >> I've inherited 40 pcs from a local school that are generic with xp pro >> and no coa. maybe they have a corp license, not sure. >> Anyone know if microsoft will hang me if i resell these in my retail >> consignment store? > > > If the computers aren't too old, it's possible that you can create > restore disks from the hidden partition. You can find the Product Key by > using the tool at this web site: http://www.magicaljellybean.com/ > > Despite what others have said here, if the XP installs are OEM and you > were given the computers, you were also given the licenses. > > P IIRC, the fine print concerning OEM re-sales that includes Windows XP is that it must also include the Windows XP installation cdrom or recovery partition or disc, manuals and the COA sticker. Nothing is "automatic" any more.
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential): I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL format option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct? (I'm just talking about floppies) John John (MVP) wrote: > There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT > format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is > absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What > was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were > no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to > zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. > The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to > zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping > utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your > 500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's > standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the > formatting process with this unnecessary step. > > John > > Charles Lee wrote: > >> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... >> >> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's, >> not >> just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for >> the >> old Atari in a cartridge.... >> >> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout >> each >> sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... >> >> >> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous... >> >> >> >> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> >>> Charles Lee wrote: >>> >>> >>>> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... >>> >>> No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from >>> the >>> operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be >>> arranged >>> in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There is >>> no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the >>> operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new hard >>> disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, >>> nothing >>> to do with formatting at all. >>> >>> John.
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? With floppies you can use the /u switch, the switch does nothing with hard drives. John Bill in Co. wrote: > Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential): > > I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL format > option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct? (I'm > just talking about floppies) > > John John (MVP) wrote: > >>There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT >>format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is >>absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What >>was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were >>no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to >>zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. >>The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to >>zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping >>utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your >>500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's >>standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the >>formatting process with this unnecessary step. >> >>John >> >>Charles Lee wrote: >> >> >>>Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... >>> >>>even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with zero's, >>>not >>>just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for >>>the >>>old Atari in a cartridge.... >>> >>>when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout >>>each >>>sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... >>> >>> >>>if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous... >>> >>> >>> >>>"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >>>news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> >>> >>>>Charles Lee wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... >>>> >>>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from >>>>the >>>>operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be >>>>arranged >>>>in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There is >>>>no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the >>>>operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new hard >>>>disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, >>>>nothing >>>>to do with formatting at all. >>>> >>>>John. > > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? 1) The /u is for unformat? 2) I had thought that once a floppy was formatted (full format), it did write out zeroes, but you didn't address that. (But I understand that this doesn't apply to HDs, however. John John (MVP) wrote: > With floppies you can use the /u switch, the switch does nothing with > hard drives. > > John > > Bill in Co. wrote: > >> Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential): >> >> I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL >> format >> option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct? >> (I'm >> just talking about floppies) >> >> John John (MVP) wrote: >> >>> There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT >>> format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is >>> absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What >>> was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were >>> no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to >>> zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. >>> The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to >>> zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping >>> utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your >>> 500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's >>> standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the >>> formatting process with this unnecessary step. >>> >>> John >>> >>> Charles Lee wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... >>>> >>>> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with >>>> zero's, >>>> not >>>> just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for >>>> the >>>> old Atari in a cartridge.... >>>> >>>> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout >>>> each >>>> sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... >>>> >>>> >>>> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >>>> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> >>>> >>>>> Charles Lee wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... >>>>> >>>>> No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from >>>>> the >>>>> operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be >>>>> arranged >>>>> in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There >>>>> is >>>>> no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the >>>>> operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new >>>>> hard >>>>> disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, >>>>> nothing >>>>> to do with formatting at all. >>>>> >>>>> John.
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? No, it's for unconditional. FORMAT a: /u I beleive that doing a full format on a floppy does the same thing, but these things don't apply to hard disks. John Bill in Co. wrote: > 1) The /u is for unformat? > 2) I had thought that once a floppy was formatted (full format), it did > write out zeroes, but you didn't address that. (But I understand that this > doesn't apply to HDs, however. > > John John (MVP) wrote: > >>With floppies you can use the /u switch, the switch does nothing with >>hard drives. >> >>John >> >>Bill in Co. wrote: >> >> >>>Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential): >>> >>>I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL >>>format >>>option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct? >>>(I'm >>>just talking about floppies) >>> >>>John John (MVP) wrote: >>> >>> >>>>There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT >>>>format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is >>>>absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What >>>>was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there were >>>>no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want to >>>>zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. >>>>The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to >>>>zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping >>>>utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills your >>>>500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's >>>>standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the >>>>formatting process with this unnecessary step. >>>> >>>>John >>>> >>>>Charles Lee wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... >>>>> >>>>>even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with >>>>>zero's, >>>>>not >>>>>just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic for >>>>>the >>>>>old Atari in a cartridge.... >>>>> >>>>>when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones throughout >>>>>each >>>>>sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately rediculous... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >>>>>news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Charles Lee wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool properly... >>>>>> >>>>>>No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files from >>>>>>the >>>>>>operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be >>>>>>arranged >>>>>>in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. There >>>>>>is >>>>>>no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the >>>>>>operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new >>>>>>hard >>>>>>disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, >>>>>>nothing >>>>>>to do with formatting at all. >>>>>> >>>>>>John. > > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? John John (MVP) wrote: > No, it's for unconditional. FORMAT a: /u Oh, OK. > I beleive that doing a full > format on a floppy does the same thing, but these things don't apply to > hard disks. Does the same thing as what? As I said (but I could be wrong), I believe that a FULL format on a floppy DOES write out zeroes (or whatever; maybe it's FFs), throughout the entire disk, so that it would be impossible to recover anything, afterwards. (I'm talking only about floppies here, and using the full (not quick) format). > Bill in Co. wrote: > >> 1) The /u is for unformat? >> 2) I had thought that once a floppy was formatted (full format), it did >> write out zeroes, but you didn't address that. (But I understand that >> this >> doesn't apply to HDs, however. >> >> John John (MVP) wrote: >> >>> With floppies you can use the /u switch, the switch does nothing with >>> hard drives. >>> >>> John >>> >>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Somewhat relatedly (but a bit tangential): >>>> >>>> I thought if you formatted a 3.5 inch floppy, however, using the FULL >>>> format >>>> option, it DID write all zeroes to the disk. Is that not correct? >>>> (I'm >>>> just talking about floppies) >>>> >>>> John John (MVP) wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> There is nothing "definitely ridiculous" about this, none of the NT >>>>> format utilities have ever written zeros to the hard disk and there is >>>>> absolutely no need to zero fill a hard disk when it is formated. What >>>>> was done on the old Atari 800 8-bit is completely irrelevant, there >>>>> were >>>>> no 250 or 500GB hard disks around in the Atari 800 days! If you want >>>>> to >>>>> zero fill a hard disk the format utility is not the right tool to use. >>>>> The format utility can scan the disk for bad sectors without having to >>>>> zero fill the drive. If you want to wipe a drive then use a wiping >>>>> utility and then wait for a day and a half while the utility fills >>>>> your >>>>> 500GB drive with zeros! Even wiping a small 40GB drive (by today's >>>>> standards) takes quite a bit of time, there is no need to bog down the >>>>> formatting process with this unnecessary step. >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> >>>>> Charles Lee wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Thats slightly bobvious the no OS needs zero's... but.... >>>>>> >>>>>> even on an old Atari 800 8-bit, all sectors were written to with >>>>>> zero's, >>>>>> not >>>>>> just sectors headers.... in the days when MS wrote MicroSoft Basic >>>>>> for >>>>>> the >>>>>> old Atari in a cartridge.... >>>>>> >>>>>> when the proper way was to write alternate zero's then ones >>>>>> throughout >>>>>> each >>>>>> sector to confirm a sector is reliable at being written to... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> if XP's format tool doesnt even do that, thats definately >>>>>> rediculous... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >>>>>> news:%237zpSs$5IHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Charles Lee wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> or are you saying MS cannot even do a simple format tool >>>>>>>> properly... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, not at all, to format a disk is to prepare it to accept files >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> operating system, all that is needed for that is that the disk be >>>>>>> arranged >>>>>>> in storage units (clusters) and that a file table be available. >>>>>>> There >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no need to fill a hard drive with zeros to make it available to the >>>>>>> operating system. Would you want to waste your time filling a new >>>>>>> hard >>>>>>> disk with zeros? What you are thinking of is a "wiping" utility, >>>>>>> nothing >>>>>>> to do with formatting at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John.
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Re: Can I resell XP computers in my consignment shop without COA? Bill in Co. wrote: > John John (MVP) wrote: > >>No, it's for unconditional. FORMAT a: /u > > > Oh, OK. > > >>I beleive that doing a full >>format on a floppy does the same thing, but these things don't apply to >>hard disks. > > > Does the same thing as what? As using the /u switch, it destroys all data on the floppy disk. John
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