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Request: A compression program

Guest Ragab

By Guest Ragab
in Windows XP

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Guest Ragab

Guest Ragab

Posted
Posted

Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small size?

I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not effective.

Thanks for help

--

Ragab

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Guest R. McCarty

Guest R. McCarty

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

Part of the issue is not the compression app, but the source file. Not

all files can be significantly reduced in size. Some formats such as Jpg

do not have much in the way of compressible data.

 

"Ragab" <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:A34CC3B5-257F-4290-BBC7-3500B36CAE80@microsoft.com...

> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

> size?

> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

> effective.

> Thanks for help

> --

> Ragab

Guest Paul

Guest Paul

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

Ragab wrote:

> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small size?

> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not effective.

> Thanks for help

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_data_compression

 

"Limitations

 

Lossless data compression algorithms cannot guarantee compression for all

input data sets. In other words, for any (lossless) data compression algorithm,

there will be an input data set that does not get smaller when processed by

the algorithm."

 

At least some file formats, already use compression internally, making

it difficult for a compression program to "squeeze" out any more

bytes of data.

 

Paul

Guest Ragab

Guest Ragab

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

Thanks for ur response

I need it to compress data files, like PDF and DOC files. Is there a

software can help?

--

Ragab

 

 

"R. McCarty" wrote:

> Part of the issue is not the compression app, but the source file. Not

> all files can be significantly reduced in size. Some formats such as Jpg

> do not have much in the way of compressible data.

>

> "Ragab" <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:A34CC3B5-257F-4290-BBC7-3500B36CAE80@microsoft.com...

> > Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

> > size?

> > I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> > possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

> > effective.

> > Thanks for help

> > --

> > Ragab

>

>

>

Guest Ragab

Guest Ragab

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

Thanks for ur response

I need it to compress data files, like PDF and DOC files. Is there a

software can help?

--

Ragab

 

 

"Paul" wrote:

> Ragab wrote:

> > Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small size?

> > I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> > possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not effective.

> > Thanks for help

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_data_compression

>

> "Limitations

>

> Lossless data compression algorithms cannot guarantee compression for all

> input data sets. In other words, for any (lossless) data compression algorithm,

> there will be an input data set that does not get smaller when processed by

> the algorithm."

>

> At least some file formats, already use compression internally, making

> it difficult for a compression program to "squeeze" out any more

> bytes of data.

>

> Paul

>

Guest R. McCarty

Guest R. McCarty

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

Sorry, I'm not personally familiar with any compressors designed for

Pdf/Doc files. A web search turns up lots of hits for compressing those

file types - but nothing I recognized or would blindly recommend.

 

"Ragab" <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:6DC57112-F1D9-4723-BC44-23A3E4D0FFAF@microsoft.com...

> Thanks for ur response

> I need it to compress data files, like PDF and DOC files. Is there a

> software can help?

> --

> Ragab

>

>

> "R. McCarty" wrote:

>

>> Part of the issue is not the compression app, but the source file. Not

>> all files can be significantly reduced in size. Some formats such as Jpg

>> do not have much in the way of compressible data.

>>

>> "Ragab" <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:A34CC3B5-257F-4290-BBC7-3500B36CAE80@microsoft.com...

>> > Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

>> > size?

>> > I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

>> > possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

>> > effective.

>> > Thanks for help

>> > --

>> > Ragab

>>

>>

>>

Guest Paul

Guest Paul

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

Ragab wrote:

> Thanks for ur response

> I need it to compress data files, like PDF and DOC files. Is there a

> software can help?

 

The only way to find out, is to test some new softwares.

 

PDF files vary in compressibility. Some files can be

compressed slightly, and some not at all. I would not

expect a 2:1 compression, but some smaller percentage

improvement in size. (The author of the PDF document, can

make a big difference to the compressibility. Specifically,

in the settings used in Distiller, for image compression.)

 

I'm not sure about DOC files. You would have to examine

them, with hex or text editors, and look for redundant

information in the file, to estimate whether it is

compressible.

 

Ordinary text files, on the other hand, should give good

compression.

 

Paul

Guest Ken Blake, MVP

Guest Ken Blake, MVP

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:20:01 -0700, Ragab

<Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small size?

> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not effective.

> Thanks for help

 

 

How much a file *can* be compressed depends on what type of file it

is, as well as what data it contains. As a single simplistic example,

if there were a text file that consisted of nothing but the latter "x"

repeated 100 million times, it could easily be compressed to 15 bytes,

containing the characters "100 million x's".

 

In practice, of course, it's never that simple. Most files can't be

compressed anywhere near that much, and turning a 100MB file into 50MB

or less is almost never possible.

 

But bear in mind that it's primarily the file itself that determines

how much it can be compressed, not so much the program that's doing

the compressing. The programs you've tried do a good job of

compressing. If they can't do what you want (or at least very close to

it), it can't be done. You might find a program that did a *slightly*

better job, but that's all.

 

--

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Guest HeyBub

Guest HeyBub

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

Ragab wrote:

> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very

> small size? I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file -->

> 50MB or less if possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver.

> But they r not effective. Thanks for help

 

Compression is more dependent on the source document than on standard

compression programs. It is possible for a file to GROW as a result of

compression! (Experiment: Compress a file with RAR then apply ZIP to the

result. The ZIP file will be larger than the RAR file!).

 

PDFs compress fairly well; DOC files even more so. I doubt that either will

reach 50% very often.

 

You may have to investigate other techniques: Spanning the output file to

several media or just moving the changes to the file.

Guest Twayne

Guest Twayne

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

> Thanks for ur response

> I need it to compress data files, like PDF and DOC files. Is there a

> software can help?

>

>> Part of the issue is not the compression app, but the source file.

>> Not all files can be significantly reduced in size. Some formats

>> such as Jpg do not have much in the way of compressible data.

>>

>> "Ragab" <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:A34CC3B5-257F-4290-BBC7-3500B36CAE80@microsoft.com...

>>> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very

>>> small size?

 

It's not the program that determines how much a file can be compressed;

it's the file itself. Especially if it's an already compressed format.

>>> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less

>>> if possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r

>>> not effective.

>>> Thanks for help

>>> --

>>> Ragab

 

If you've tried Winzip and a couple other name brands, those give you

the best you're going to get. You can set the compression to max, etc.,

in those, but ... beware ... other unzip programs may not be able to

unzip them since, like Winzip, has a proprietary compression algo that's

not supported by all the others.

An already compressed file can not be compressed further by more than

a few more bytes; it's not worth trying even.

 

HTH

Guest Hula Baloo

Guest Hula Baloo

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

Ragab wrote:

> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small size?

> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not effective.

> Thanks for help

You have rec'd numerous replies explaning why you're seeing the

results you've seen. However, since you posted this question in one of

the XP forums, I assume you're running XP. Are you aware that XP has a

BUILT-IN compression program? Just right-click the file you want to

compress, point to SEND TO, and click COMPRESSED FOLDER. That will

create a .ZIP file, compressed as well as the other programs you

mentioned. Best of all it's a FREE part of Windows XP.

Guest Patrick Keenan

Guest Patrick Keenan

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

 

"Ragab" <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:A34CC3B5-257F-4290-BBC7-3500B36CAE80@microsoft.com...

> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

> size?

> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

> effective.

> Thanks for help

> --

> Ragab

 

If you find those apps to be "not very effective", even at the maximum

settings, you're not going to get where you want because your original file

can't be compressed to the point you want.

 

As everyone points out, compression utilities are only part of the equation.

The key is the kind of data in the document and the document format.

 

HTH

-pk

Guest Patrick Keenan

Guest Patrick Keenan

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

"Ragab" <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:6DC57112-F1D9-4723-BC44-23A3E4D0FFAF@microsoft.com...

> Thanks for ur response

> I need it to compress data files, like PDF and DOC files. Is there a

> software can help?

 

Yes, and you've already tried them and found them inadequate.

 

That means that the problem is not with compression software, it means that

you've just reached the limit of compression for your particular files.

 

If you need them to be smaller, go back and look at those files and see if

you can edit them to reduce their size or density, or, split them in two.

 

HTH

-pk

 

> --

> Ragab

>

>

> "R. McCarty" wrote:

>

>> Part of the issue is not the compression app, but the source file. Not

>> all files can be significantly reduced in size. Some formats such as Jpg

>> do not have much in the way of compressible data.

>>

>> "Ragab" <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:A34CC3B5-257F-4290-BBC7-3500B36CAE80@microsoft.com...

>> > Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

>> > size?

>> > I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

>> > possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

>> > effective.

>> > Thanks for help

>> > --

>> > Ragab

>>

>>

>>

Guest Ragab

Guest Ragab

Posted
Posted

RE: Request: A compression program

 

Thanks for all responses

Thanks for caring

--

Ragab

 

 

"Ragab" wrote:

> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small size?

> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not effective.

> Thanks for help

> --

> Ragab

Guest Phisherman

Guest Phisherman

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:20:01 -0700, Ragab

<Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small size?

>I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

>possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not effective.

>Thanks for help

 

 

WinZip is pretty good. What kind of file are you trying to compress?

Perhaps you are trying to compress a file that is already compressed?

Guest M.I.5¾

Guest M.I.5¾

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

 

"Ragab" <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:A34CC3B5-257F-4290-BBC7-3500B36CAE80@microsoft.com...

> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

> size?

> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

> effective.

> Thanks for help

>

You can use the best compression utility money can buy, but it won't

significantly commpress a file that is not inherantly compressable in the

first place. You don't say what you are trying to compress, but basically,

raw video files are generally the most compressible types of file with some

algorithms achieving almost unbelievable reduction ratios. Text is

inherantly very compressible. Most picture formats are hardly compressable

at all, mainly because the format already includes a compression algorithm.

Guest M.I.5¾

Guest M.I.5¾

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

 

"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message

news:9lor84hgjhv0g29re6rhho3m4kmlmjoo8n@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:20:01 -0700, Ragab

> <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>

>> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

>> size?

>> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

>> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

>> effective.

>> Thanks for help

>

>

> How much a file *can* be compressed depends on what type of file it

> is, as well as what data it contains. As a single simplistic example,

> if there were a text file that consisted of nothing but the latter "x"

> repeated 100 million times, it could easily be compressed to 15 bytes,

> containing the characters "100 million x's".

>

 

And removal of that spurious possessive apostrophe would improve on that to

14 bytes.

Guest Ken Blake, MVP

Guest Ken Blake, MVP

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:55:03 +0100, "M.I.5¾"

<no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:

>

> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message

> news:9lor84hgjhv0g29re6rhho3m4kmlmjoo8n@4ax.com...

> > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:20:01 -0700, Ragab

> > <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> >

> >> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

> >> size?

> >> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> >> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

> >> effective.

> >> Thanks for help

> >

> >

> > How much a file *can* be compressed depends on what type of file it

> > is, as well as what data it contains. As a single simplistic example,

> > if there were a text file that consisted of nothing but the latter "x"

> > repeated 100 million times, it could easily be compressed to 15 bytes,

> > containing the characters "100 million x's".

> >

>

> And removal of that spurious possessive apostrophe would improve on that to

> 14 bytes.

 

 

LOL! There's no question that the apostrophe is spurious. It's flat

out wrong. But it wasn't just a typo. I actually noticed it when I

wrote the message, deleted it, then decided that xs looked very

confusing. So I changed it to "x"s, and then changed it back, because

that made it 16 bytes.

 

Either way, I think my point was clear.

 

Ken

 

--

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Guest 3c273

Guest 3c273

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

How about 7 bytes?

10e6(x)

Louis

</fun>

 

"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message

news:t0au84d5l4ortuta1i6k4sf9dlt3bhjivt@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:55:03 +0100, "M.I.5¾"

> <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:

>

> >

> > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message

> > news:9lor84hgjhv0g29re6rhho3m4kmlmjoo8n@4ax.com...

> > > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:20:01 -0700, Ragab

> > > <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> > >

> > >> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very

small

> > >> size?

> > >> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less

if

> > >> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

> > >> effective.

> > >> Thanks for help

> > >

> > >

> > > How much a file *can* be compressed depends on what type of file it

> > > is, as well as what data it contains. As a single simplistic example,

> > > if there were a text file that consisted of nothing but the latter "x"

> > > repeated 100 million times, it could easily be compressed to 15 bytes,

> > > containing the characters "100 million x's".

> > >

> >

> > And removal of that spurious possessive apostrophe would improve on that

to

> > 14 bytes.

>

>

> LOL! There's no question that the apostrophe is spurious. It's flat

> out wrong. But it wasn't just a typo. I actually noticed it when I

> wrote the message, deleted it, then decided that xs looked very

> confusing. So I changed it to "x"s, and then changed it back, because

> that made it 16 bytes.

>

> Either way, I think my point was clear.

>

> Ken

>

> --

> Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

> Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Guest Bill in Co.

Guest Bill in Co.

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:55:03 +0100, "M.I.5¾"

> <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:

>

>>

>> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message

>> news:9lor84hgjhv0g29re6rhho3m4kmlmjoo8n@4ax.com...

>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:20:01 -0700, Ragab

>>> <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

>>>> size?

>>>> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

>>>> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

>>>> effective.

>>>> Thanks for help

>>>

>>>

>>> How much a file *can* be compressed depends on what type of file it

>>> is, as well as what data it contains. As a single simplistic example,

>>> if there were a text file that consisted of nothing but the latter "x"

>>> repeated 100 million times, it could easily be compressed to 15 bytes,

>>> containing the characters "100 million x's".

>>>

>>

>> And removal of that spurious possessive apostrophe would improve on that

>> to

>> 14 bytes.

>

>

> LOL! There's no question that the apostrophe is spurious. It's flat

> out wrong. But it wasn't just a typo. I actually noticed it when I

> wrote the message, deleted it, then decided that xs looked very

> confusing. So I changed it to "x"s, and then changed it back, because

> that made it 16 bytes.

>

> Either way, I think my point was clear.

>

> Ken

 

Actually, it depends on the algorithm used to contain that information, and

how its stored. And is the number being stored in real or integer format,

etc, etc.

 

So the actual length of the compressed file would be considerably more than

15 or 16 bytes, in reality. IOW, I'm pretty certain that when all is said

and done, the final result for the compressed text file would be a LOT

larger than 16 bytes, however. :-)

Guest Ken Blake, MVP

Guest Ken Blake, MVP

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:41:15 -0600, "Bill in Co."

<not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:55:03 +0100, "M.I.5¾"

> > <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:

> >

> >>

> >> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message

> >> news:9lor84hgjhv0g29re6rhho3m4kmlmjoo8n@4ax.com...

> >>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:20:01 -0700, Ragab

> >>> <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

> >>>> size?

> >>>> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

> >>>> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

> >>>> effective.

> >>>> Thanks for help

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> How much a file *can* be compressed depends on what type of file it

> >>> is, as well as what data it contains. As a single simplistic example,

> >>> if there were a text file that consisted of nothing but the latter "x"

> >>> repeated 100 million times, it could easily be compressed to 15 bytes,

> >>> containing the characters "100 million x's".

> >>>

> >>

> >> And removal of that spurious possessive apostrophe would improve on that

> >> to

> >> 14 bytes.

> >

> >

> > LOL! There's no question that the apostrophe is spurious. It's flat

> > out wrong. But it wasn't just a typo. I actually noticed it when I

> > wrote the message, deleted it, then decided that xs looked very

> > confusing. So I changed it to "x"s, and then changed it back, because

> > that made it 16 bytes.

> >

> > Either way, I think my point was clear.

> >

> > Ken

>

> Actually, it depends on the algorithm used to contain that information, and

> how its stored. And is the number being stored in real or integer format,

> etc, etc.

>

> So the actual length of the compressed file would be considerably more than

> 15 or 16 bytes, in reality. IOW, I'm pretty certain that when all is said

> and done, the final result for the compressed text file would be a LOT

> larger than 16 bytes, however. :-)

 

 

Yes, it wasn't meant to be an actual algorithm that any existing

software actually uses, just an oversimplified example of one of the

kinds of thing that are done, and how dramatically a highly

repetitious file can be compressed.

 

 

--

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Guest M.I.5¾

Guest M.I.5¾

Posted
Posted

Re: Request: A compression program

 

 

"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message

news:t0au84d5l4ortuta1i6k4sf9dlt3bhjivt@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:55:03 +0100, "M.I.5¾"

> <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:

>

>>

>> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message

>> news:9lor84hgjhv0g29re6rhho3m4kmlmjoo8n@4ax.com...

>> > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:20:01 -0700, Ragab

>> > <Ragab@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>> >

>> >> Is there a compression program that can compress files to a very small

>> >> size?

>> >> I mean I need a program that can make a 100MB file --> 50MB or less if

>> >> possible. I tried WinRar, WinZip, and KGB Archiver. But they r not

>> >> effective.

>> >> Thanks for help

>> >

>> >

>> > How much a file *can* be compressed depends on what type of file it

>> > is, as well as what data it contains. As a single simplistic example,

>> > if there were a text file that consisted of nothing but the latter "x"

>> > repeated 100 million times, it could easily be compressed to 15 bytes,

>> > containing the characters "100 million x's".

>> >

>>

>> And removal of that spurious possessive apostrophe would improve on that

>> to

>> 14 bytes.

>

>

> LOL! There's no question that the apostrophe is spurious. It's flat

> out wrong. But it wasn't just a typo. I actually noticed it when I

> wrote the message, deleted it, then decided that xs looked very

> confusing. So I changed it to "x"s, and then changed it back, because

> that made it 16 bytes.

>

> Either way, I think my point was clear.

>

 

Having relooked at this, it seems your apostrophe was not as spurious as I

first thought. Although an apostrophe is generally grammatically wrong in a

plural, there are, as ever, exceptions to the rule. Your example is in fact

one of them as you are refering to the x's themselves and not what the

symbol represents (crap explanation but the best I can do this time of the

morning).

 

Another example is where you are refering to the word itself and not what it

represents as in:

 

I'll take no if's or but's from you.

 

Your point was spot on though.

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