Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

[Guest John D]

My wife has an old Dell Intel x86 system, Windows 98, 2nd edition version

4.10.2222A, 128MB RAM. Admittedly this is an almost extinct dinosaur, but it

does what my wife needs to do. She's a prolific writer, but very, very few

pieces longer than 5 pages in Word (articles). And she does lots of email

with Outlook Express. Her applications just don't apply much pressure on the

system.

 

Over the past month she's had frequent "crashes" - I haven't observed a lot

of them but I think it isn't the blue screen of death - I think the

application crashes. It can be Word, Outlook Express. It sometimes takes "5

minutes" (perhaps a slight exageration) for a Word document to load (Norton

is not configured to scan each file she opens - my attempt to avoid this

problem).

 

Every time Windows boots (or reboots) there is an error message: "iCCP:CRC"

- that's it. "Cyclic redundancy check" seems more of a "method" of finding

errors rather than notice of any specific type of error (?). When I Googled

this error I got loads of registry scanner types telling me I needed to run a

registry scanner. When I looked in the Windows 98 "registry issues"

discussion group people way smarter than me said don't ever use those things!

 

Seems to me the problem isn't with any particular application because the

same type of problem (crashing, very slow) occurs in several applications.

 

Suggestions are most greatfully appreciated (I'm afraid she's going to do

that "shoot the lawn mower" thing some guy did yesterday).

 

Thanks - John D

[Guest Gary S. Terhune]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

If she "shoots the lawn mower", PLEASE take video, <g>! I recommend a 4-10

shotgun or an RPG.

 

What version of Norton is she running? Norton doesn't run on Windows 98 any

more, or rather, it isn't getting any updates. It hasn't for a long time. It

should be properly uninstalled using Add/Remove Programs, and then the Clean

Up Tool should be run. If her version is 2003 or newer, here's the Tool:

http://service1.symantec.com/Support/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039

 

Otherwise, read this:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nip.nsf/docid/2001090510510636

 

Before actually doing anything, read this:

"Clean Boot -- What it is and why you need it."

http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm

 

Pay particular attention to the need to re-enable startup items, *without*

restarting the computer, after setting up the Clean Boot and before

UNinstalling anything. This is so the uninstaller can find the startup entry

and delete it. (Actually, I should edit that to apply to all procedures.)

The Clean Boot procedure also includes several manual clean-up chores that

may improve performance.

 

To replace Norton I recommend Avast. Other security items and resources are

mentioned in my article "Security!"

http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

 

After doing the above, please report back with the results.

 

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

 

"John D" <JohnD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:253713A1-D227-4208-93CD-F0468606194F@microsoft.com...

> My wife has an old Dell Intel x86 system, Windows 98, 2nd edition version

> 4.10.2222A, 128MB RAM. Admittedly this is an almost extinct dinosaur, but

> it

> does what my wife needs to do. She's a prolific writer, but very, very few

> pieces longer than 5 pages in Word (articles). And she does lots of email

> with Outlook Express. Her applications just don't apply much pressure on

> the

> system.

>

> Over the past month she's had frequent "crashes" - I haven't observed a

> lot

> of them but I think it isn't the blue screen of death - I think the

> application crashes. It can be Word, Outlook Express. It sometimes takes

> "5

> minutes" (perhaps a slight exageration) for a Word document to load

> (Norton

> is not configured to scan each file she opens - my attempt to avoid this

> problem).

>

> Every time Windows boots (or reboots) there is an error message:

> "iCCP:CRC"

> - that's it. "Cyclic redundancy check" seems more of a "method" of finding

> errors rather than notice of any specific type of error (?). When I

> Googled

> this error I got loads of registry scanner types telling me I needed to

> run a

> registry scanner. When I looked in the Windows 98 "registry issues"

> discussion group people way smarter than me said don't ever use those

> things!

>

> Seems to me the problem isn't with any particular application because the

> same type of problem (crashing, very slow) occurs in several applications.

>

> Suggestions are most greatfully appreciated (I'm afraid she's going to do

> that "shoot the lawn mower" thing some guy did yesterday).

>

> Thanks - John D

[Guest John D]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

 

Gary

 

First free hour I've had when wife wasn't using computer.

 

Re Norton Antivirus - I ran Live Update, it went through all that stuff it

does, said completed updating and all components are up to date. NAV

indicates Virus Definitions were downloaded 7/30/08, and that her paid

subscription is through 7/11/09!

 

Automatic Update is On - don't know how often it runs, but it runs.

 

Is NAV telling us that it is downloading up to date virus definitions when

it isn't?

 

I attempted to find out if they are not updating NAV 2003 virus definitions

for Windows98 on their website - but boy is that a

poorly-designed-functioning website!

 

Thanks - John D

[Guest Gary S. Terhune]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/security/Content/Product/Product_NIS.html

They're still providing the Updates, it would appear. But whether they

provide updates or not, Norton Products are notorious for slowing a machine

significantly. You should really convince her to immediately switch to

Avast! (after uninstalling Norton and using the Removal Tool).

 

After that, see my Clean Boot article:

http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm

 

Before going through all those procedures, download the apps mentioned in

the companion article, "Security!"

http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm Install them and Update them, but

don't bother to run the scans.

 

Now go back to the CleanBoot article, cleaning up the system and otherwise

prepping for a Clean Boot, then run full scans with everything. It will take

a long while. Once finished, restore a Normal boot and see how the system

acts. If still sluggish, there's more to do.

 

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

 

"John D" <JohnD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:AB4736E6-DABC-4702-A508-D87D3F86C942@microsoft.com...

>

> Gary

>

> First free hour I've had when wife wasn't using computer.

>

> Re Norton Antivirus - I ran Live Update, it went through all that stuff it

> does, said completed updating and all components are up to date. NAV

> indicates Virus Definitions were downloaded 7/30/08, and that her paid

> subscription is through 7/11/09!

>

> Automatic Update is On - don't know how often it runs, but it runs.

>

> Is NAV telling us that it is downloading up to date virus definitions when

> it isn't?

>

> I attempted to find out if they are not updating NAV 2003 virus

> definitions

> for Windows98 on their website - but boy is that a

> poorly-designed-functioning website!

>

> Thanks - John D

[Guest Dan]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

Please consider removing Norton which I do not currently like because it has

become so bloated.

 

If you need an antivirus solution, current suggestions include AVG 7.5 which

I use but it is on life support because it soon should be transitioning into

non-supported status in August for free version and end of the year for paid

version.

 

I cannot suggest AVG 8 because of false positives and of course it is not

supported in Windows 98.

 

My Current Solution is: <MCS>

 

1. Is a router <with changed default settings and changed default password>

and fully updated with the latest firmware,

 

2. software firewall <debate as to which is best for Windows 98 Second

Edition>

 

3. antivirus <again debated which is best but current suggestion is Avast

but beware of its overly aggressive in my opinion scanning like when it

flagged Yahoo.com as having malware when it did not>

 

4. extremely important in this day and age of web surfing and baddies

floating around in the Clouds <aka Cyberspace, Matrix, etc.> shall we say

<grin>

 

anti-spyware <currently like and suggest Spybot Search and Destroy, not

Ad-ware because of too many false positives in the past, SpywareBlaster

<great program to stop baddies from getting on to your system>, rest of them

are currently up for debate imo.

 

5. Any other comments about securing a Windows 98 Second Edition safely are

welcome. Please also see if you want a lot of technical stuff: the microsoft

white-page on this available at:

 

http://support.microsoft.com/gp/msim_win98

[Guest John D]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

Gary - Decided to wait until today when I could clear the decks and prepare

for an extended engagement - and eventually ran into a problem.

 

I read all your stuff (thanks - very helpful). Decided I wanted to know a

bit more about removing Norton and wound up at "Ask Dave Taylor" where he had

a very detailed set of "Remove Norton" instructions - going into the registry

in lots of places, ... - I liked it.

 

I downloaded the Avast free version and saved it, intending to install Avast

after I had done diagnostics in the Clean Boot environment. I then

disconnected our cable internet connection.

 

I removed Norton based on Dave's instructions.

 

I then established the Clean Boot environment per your instructions.

 

Then I started a "Thorough Disk Scan" - and, it's been stuck on cluster

21,953 out of ~1.2 million for nearly an hour.

 

I assume a conclusion of a "bad sector" is not out of order. What I don't

understand is why the test would just freeze rather than say "bad sector" and

go on?

 

My guess is the next step is to make sure complete back ups are done, wipe

the disk clean, reinstall the operating system, then the data - on the

assumption that reformating would isolate the bad sectors.

 

Do you think it's time for this nuclear option? Or maybe reboot in Safe Mode

and try the test again? Or ...

 

Thanks - John D

[Guest John D]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

Well ... it just got a lot worse.

 

I rebooted after ScanDisk hung on that sector. Windows came up fine - still

in "Clean Boot" mode I assume.

 

Went into MSCONFIG - enabled Normal Startup.

 

Rebooted.

 

But - still didn't have antivirus.

 

Clicked the Avast install icon - Avast installed.

 

Rebooted so Avast would take effect.

 

Windows started to boot - then just shut off. Tried again - shut off again.

 

Entered Safe Mode - choose the boot windows with prompts. Said yes to

everything - it got to msmouse.??? - I said yes - had a blinking cursor for

maybe 20 seconds - showed the windows background color briefly, went back to

a cursor - then shut off. Did this a couple of times.

 

Tried again - said N to msmouse.??? - same thing happened.

 

Went to the old MS DOS prompt - amazing what I remembered even though I

haven't bounced around in DOS for - geez - 10 years at least - maybe 15.

(Probably 20)

 

I was going to go erase the Avast ".exe" files - but remembered that you

have to uninstall programs through Windows.

 

So - here I sit. The computer is shutting itself off without getting to a

"usable" spot in Windows. I can load the command prompt, but don't know how

to help from that point.

 

About to decide it's time for a new computer and system (didn't want to do

that right now) - and copy data files, address books, favorites, etc. off the

old hard drive (not all her work was backed up).

 

Can you think of anything else?

 

Sorry - thanks - John D

[Guest Dan]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

Okay, please feel free to email me at rodew871975@hot8mail.cobm

 

Just remove the ro,87,8,b and you should be all set. It will be quicker to

diagnose your issue by email rather than clutter the 98 general newsgroup. I

am prepared for email spam again --- Yipee Kai Aye Mother____er to all the

spammers and spybot networks and bring it on. You can tell I am a Danimal

and crazy to boot -- LOL

 

 

 

"John D" wrote:

> Well ... it just got a lot worse.

>

> I rebooted after ScanDisk hung on that sector. Windows came up fine - still

> in "Clean Boot" mode I assume.

>

> Went into MSCONFIG - enabled Normal Startup.

>

> Rebooted.

>

> But - still didn't have antivirus.

>

> Clicked the Avast install icon - Avast installed.

>

> Rebooted so Avast would take effect.

>

> Windows started to boot - then just shut off. Tried again - shut off again.

>

> Entered Safe Mode - choose the boot windows with prompts. Said yes to

> everything - it got to msmouse.??? - I said yes - had a blinking cursor for

> maybe 20 seconds - showed the windows background color briefly, went back to

> a cursor - then shut off. Did this a couple of times.

>

> Tried again - said N to msmouse.??? - same thing happened.

>

> Went to the old MS DOS prompt - amazing what I remembered even though I

> haven't bounced around in DOS for - geez - 10 years at least - maybe 15.

> (Probably 20)

>

> I was going to go erase the Avast ".exe" files - but remembered that you

> have to uninstall programs through Windows.

>

> So - here I sit. The computer is shutting itself off without getting to a

> "usable" spot in Windows. I can load the command prompt, but don't know how

> to help from that point.

>

> About to decide it's time for a new computer and system (didn't want to do

> that right now) - and copy data files, address books, favorites, etc. off the

> old hard drive (not all her work was backed up).

>

> Can you think of anything else?

>

> Sorry - thanks - John D

>

>

[Guest Gary S. Terhune]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

Did you simply try Safe Mode before trying Step-by-Step?

 

Did you try a different mouse?

 

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

 

"John D" <JohnD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:FE2DC6DD-5CC3-43C9-AB06-A6A74DE7982A@microsoft.com...

> Well ... it just got a lot worse.

>

> I rebooted after ScanDisk hung on that sector. Windows came up fine -

> still

> in "Clean Boot" mode I assume.

>

> Went into MSCONFIG - enabled Normal Startup.

>

> Rebooted.

>

> But - still didn't have antivirus.

>

> Clicked the Avast install icon - Avast installed.

>

> Rebooted so Avast would take effect.

>

> Windows started to boot - then just shut off. Tried again - shut off

> again.

>

> Entered Safe Mode - choose the boot windows with prompts. Said yes to

> everything - it got to msmouse.??? - I said yes - had a blinking cursor

> for

> maybe 20 seconds - showed the windows background color briefly, went back

> to

> a cursor - then shut off. Did this a couple of times.

>

> Tried again - said N to msmouse.??? - same thing happened.

>

> Went to the old MS DOS prompt - amazing what I remembered even though I

> haven't bounced around in DOS for - geez - 10 years at least - maybe 15.

> (Probably 20)

>

> I was going to go erase the Avast ".exe" files - but remembered that you

> have to uninstall programs through Windows.

>

> So - here I sit. The computer is shutting itself off without getting to a

> "usable" spot in Windows. I can load the command prompt, but don't know

> how

> to help from that point.

>

> About to decide it's time for a new computer and system (didn't want to do

> that right now) - and copy data files, address books, favorites, etc. off

> the

> old hard drive (not all her work was backed up).

>

> Can you think of anything else?

>

> Sorry - thanks - John D

>

>

[Guest Gary S. Terhune]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

"John D" <JohnD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:145EF5FC-B1D9-443B-8E3F-46AB5BE8F8FB@microsoft.com...

> Gary - Decided to wait until today when I could clear the decks and

> prepare

> for an extended engagement - and eventually ran into a problem.

>

> I read all your stuff (thanks - very helpful). Decided I wanted to know a

> bit more about removing Norton and wound up at "Ask Dave Taylor" where he

> had

> a very detailed set of "Remove Norton" instructions - going into the

> registry

> in lots of places, ... - I liked it.

 

Do you have a link to that page? I'm not familiar with the site or the

author, so I have no comment., but was that *after* running the proper

Removal Tool? I, personally, wouldn't trust the manual removal instructions

listed there (pretty standard stuff) to find all of Registry entries and

files belonging to Norton.

> I downloaded the Avast free version and saved it, intending to install

> Avast

> after I had done diagnostics in the Clean Boot environment. I then

> disconnected our cable internet connection.

>

> I removed Norton based on Dave's instructions.

>

> I then established the Clean Boot environment per your instructions.

>

> Then I started a "Thorough Disk Scan" - and, it's been stuck on cluster

> 21,953 out of ~1.2 million for nearly an hour.

>

> I assume a conclusion of a "bad sector" is not out of order. What I don't

> understand is why the test would just freeze rather than say "bad sector"

> and

> go on?

 

Did you simply try running it again? Maybe it was s simple case of freezing.

Are you running scandisk with any "auto-fix" options enabled? Because that's

not a good idea unless you have already performed a full backup. Scandisk

can easily scramble a disk if certain conditions apply. Once you've got a

good, complate backup, you can then run scandisk with all auto-repair

options enabled and see what happens. Or, I've found another disk test tool

that will provide more info than scandisk. As far as I know, formatting

simply runs a Thorough scandisk after creating the file system. I woulnd't

go that far yet. There are other tests that can be done. Interestingly, an

old version of Norton Disk Doctor (ndd.exe) is one of the best. I'm pretty

sure I have that around here somewhere, or maybe it can be found on the net.

 

How large is the hard disk? Which version of Win98 is it? Original or Second

Edition?

> My guess is the next step is to make sure complete back ups are done, wipe

> the disk clean, reinstall the operating system, then the data - on the

> assumption that reformating would isolate the bad sectors.

 

What backup tool do you use? What media do you back up to? I recommend an

imaging type of backup program and saving the backup to a different hard

drive (not just another partition on teh same drive.) Or an external drive.

There are free ways to do this imaging.

 

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

[Guest Gary S. Terhune]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

I think that HDD is on its way out and you shouldn't mess with it anymore

until you copy off all the files. I don't know what other computer equipment

you have, but I would take that HDD out of that machine, install it into

another machine (preferably Win9x, so that the OS doesn't write to the

drive) and copy off all files using XCOPY (which, with the proper switches,

will not stop when it hits an error.) My guess is that the machine is so old

that most of my usual tricks wouldn't work. No native USB 2 that will let

you connect an external HD for copying over, for instance.

 

I'd say get another HD and put it into the machine, but then you have to

deal with what sizes and configurations BIOS will support. Do you have a

make/model for the machine

 

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

 

"John D" <JohnD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:FE2DC6DD-5CC3-43C9-AB06-A6A74DE7982A@microsoft.com...

> Well ... it just got a lot worse.

>

> I rebooted after ScanDisk hung on that sector. Windows came up fine -

> still

> in "Clean Boot" mode I assume.

>

> Went into MSCONFIG - enabled Normal Startup.

>

> Rebooted.

>

> But - still didn't have antivirus.

>

> Clicked the Avast install icon - Avast installed.

>

> Rebooted so Avast would take effect.

>

> Windows started to boot - then just shut off. Tried again - shut off

> again.

>

> Entered Safe Mode - choose the boot windows with prompts. Said yes to

> everything - it got to msmouse.??? - I said yes - had a blinking cursor

> for

> maybe 20 seconds - showed the windows background color briefly, went back

> to

> a cursor - then shut off. Did this a couple of times.

>

> Tried again - said N to msmouse.??? - same thing happened.

>

> Went to the old MS DOS prompt - amazing what I remembered even though I

> haven't bounced around in DOS for - geez - 10 years at least - maybe 15.

> (Probably 20)

>

> I was going to go erase the Avast ".exe" files - but remembered that you

> have to uninstall programs through Windows.

>

> So - here I sit. The computer is shutting itself off without getting to a

> "usable" spot in Windows. I can load the command prompt, but don't know

> how

> to help from that point.

>

> About to decide it's time for a new computer and system (didn't want to do

> that right now) - and copy data files, address books, favorites, etc. off

> the

> old hard drive (not all her work was backed up).

>

> Can you think of anything else?

>

> Sorry - thanks - John D

>

>

[Guest PCR]

Re: Frequent System crashes, SLOW - iCCP:CRC error ?

 

John D wrote:

| Well ... it just got a lot worse.

|

| I rebooted after ScanDisk hung on that sector. Windows came up fine -

| still in "Clean Boot" mode I assume.

|

| Went into MSCONFIG - enabled Normal Startup.

|

| Rebooted.

|

| But - still didn't have antivirus.

|

| Clicked the Avast install icon - Avast installed.

|

| Rebooted so Avast would take effect.

|

| Windows started to boot - then just shut off. Tried again - shut off

| again.

|

| Entered Safe Mode - choose the boot windows with prompts. Said yes to

| everything - it got to msmouse.??? - I said yes - had a blinking

| cursor for maybe 20 seconds - showed the windows background color

| briefly, went back to a cursor - then shut off. Did this a couple of

| times.

|

| Tried again - said N to msmouse.??? - same thing happened.

|

| Went to the old MS DOS prompt - amazing what I remembered even though

| I haven't bounced around in DOS for - geez - 10 years at least -

| maybe 15. (Probably 20)

|

| I was going to go erase the Avast ".exe" files - but remembered that

| you have to uninstall programs through Windows.

|

| So - here I sit. The computer is shutting itself off without getting

| to a "usable" spot in Windows. I can load the command prompt, but

| don't know how to help from that point.

|

| About to decide it's time for a new computer and system (didn't want

| to do that right now) - and copy data files, address books,

| favorites, etc. off the old hard drive (not all her work was backed

| up).

|

| Can you think of anything else?

 

That sounds like a horrible mess. Going by the following article, it may

be worth a try to extract a new Wininit.exe...

 

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;141898&Product=w98

Windows 95/98 Boots Directly to "Shut Down" Screen

 

........Quote of article............

SYMPTOMS

When you start your computer, you may see the following message:

 

It's now safe to turn off your computer

This behavior can occur in any mode.

 

CAUSE

This behavior can occur if the Vmm32.vxd or Wininit.exe file is missing

or damaged.

 

RESOLUTION

To resolve this issue, follow these steps:

 

1. To Obtain a New Copy of the Wininit.exe File

Extract a new copy of the Wininit.exe file from your original Windows

95/98 disks or CD-ROM to the Windows folder. In Windows 95, the

Wininit.exe file is located in the Win95_11.cab cabinet file on the

Windows 95 CD-ROM or disk 11 of your original Windows 95 disks.

 

(In Win98SE, it's in WIN98_47.CAB... PCR.)

 

For more information about using the Extract tool, click Start, point to

Programs, click MS-DOS prompt, type extract, and then press ENTER.

 

For additional information about using the Extract tool, please see the

following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;129605

129605 How to Extract Original Compressed Windows Files

 

2. Restart the computer.

 

NOTE: If you installed Windows 95 from a CD-ROM, you may need to enable

the Mscdex.exe line in the Autoexec.bat file or reinstall the real-mode

CD-ROM drivers included with the CD-ROM drive before you can reinstall

Windows 95. After you enable the real-mode CD-ROM drivers, repeat step 1

to restart the computer.

 

To Re-Create the Vmm32.vxd File

 

1. Restart your computer. For Windows 95, when you see the "Starting

Windows 95" message, press the F8 key, and then choose Command Prompt

Only from the Startup menu. For Windows 98, press and hold down the CTRL

key after your computer completes the Power On Self Test (POST), and

then choose Command Prompt Only from the Startup menu.

 

2. Type the following line to change to the Windows\System folder:

cd \windows\system

 

3. Type the following line:

ren vmm32.vxd vmm32.old

 

4. Reinstall Windows 95/98.

 

(I guess it will want to go to "C:\Windows.000", but you must direct it

to "C:\Windows". PCR.)

 

NOTE: If you installed Windows 95 from a CD-ROM, you may need to enable

the Mscdex.exe line in the Autoexec.bat file or reinstall the real-mode

CD-ROM drivers included with the CD-ROM drive before you can reinstall

Windows 95. After you enable the real-mode CD-ROM drivers, repeat step 1

to restart the computer.

 

MORE INFORMATION

A Vmm32.vxd file is included on the Windows 95 disks and CD-ROM.

Extracting this version of the file does not solve the problem, as it is

an incomplete version of the file. You must run Setup to re-create a

system-specific Vmm32.vxd file.

 

If Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) is enabled in your

computer's Basic Input/Output System (BIOS), the "It's now safe to turn

off your computer" message may not be displayed when you shut down

Windows 95/98.

 

If this article does not describe your shutdown-related issue, please

see the following Microsoft Web site to view more articles about

shutting down Windows 98:

 

The information in this article applies to:

Microsoft Windows 95

........End of quote.................

 

| Sorry - thanks - John D

 

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net