Monitoring loss of connectivity of printers via PING or SNMP?

[Guest Thee Chicago Wolf]

Hey guys, here's the situation. Occasionally, our 4 HP LaserJet 8150s

simultaneously throw a 79.00FE error. I have contended for years that

this is someone in networking screwing with the network and some

change causes the printers to lose connectivity in the middle of a

print job and throw errors 79 errors. I have been able to recreate it

by simply printing to a printer and pulling out the Ethernet cable in

the middle of a print job. They claim no one is doing it. I say it's

either faulty hardware or someone is a liar. I am looking for a way to

ping or monitor (via SNMP?) the jet direct card and printer.

 

I thought that if I sent a simple PING every 15-30 second to each of

the 4 jet directs I want to monitor and see if there is any loss of

connectivity / communication during any future 79 errors that IS

attributed to the network and not the jet direct / printer.

 

If someone knows of any better utility or methodology to help me

accomplish this more effectively *and* be able to log data as proof,

you would be my bestest friend. Ever! Thanks all.

 

- Thee Chicago Wolf

[Guest A W]

RE: Monitoring loss of connectivity of printers via PING or SNMP?

 

Im not sure a simple ping will tell you if its the JetDirect card, or someone

at the wireing closet. All ping will do is tell you when the printer doesnt

answer anymore.

Your looking to find "where" the loss of connection is occuring right?.

 

Id be tempted to stick a laptop on one of the printer nodes and get it to

sniff and log the network traffic. That should give you an idea of where the

break (if any) is occuring, when and what packets are flying about at the

time.

 

- A W

 

"Thee Chicago Wolf" wrote:

> Hey guys, here's the situation. Occasionally, our 4 HP LaserJet 8150s

> simultaneously throw a 79.00FE error. I have contended for years that

> this is someone in networking screwing with the network and some

> change causes the printers to lose connectivity in the middle of a

> print job and throw errors 79 errors. I have been able to recreate it

> by simply printing to a printer and pulling out the Ethernet cable in

> the middle of a print job. They claim no one is doing it. I say it's

> either faulty hardware or someone is a liar. I am looking for a way to

> ping or monitor (via SNMP?) the jet direct card and printer.

>

> I thought that if I sent a simple PING every 15-30 second to each of

> the 4 jet directs I want to monitor and see if there is any loss of

> connectivity / communication during any future 79 errors that IS

> attributed to the network and not the jet direct / printer.

>

> If someone knows of any better utility or methodology to help me

> accomplish this more effectively *and* be able to log data as proof,

> you would be my bestest friend. Ever! Thanks all.

>

> - Thee Chicago Wolf

>

[Guest Thee Chicago Wolf]

Re: Monitoring loss of connectivity of printers via PING or SNMP?

 

>Im not sure a simple ping will tell you if its the JetDirect card, or someone

>at the wireing closet. All ping will do is tell you when the printer doesnt

>answer anymore.

>Your looking to find "where" the loss of connection is occuring right?.

>

>Id be tempted to stick a laptop on one of the printer nodes and get it to

>sniff and log the network traffic. That should give you an idea of where the

>break (if any) is occuring, when and what packets are flying about at the

>time.

 

Ideally, yes, a laptop to monitor it would be good but I don't have

that luxury. This is a print server running print management software

so the failure is occurring between the Server NIC (Point A) and the

Jet Direct card (Point B). A tracert shows only one device (an Alcatel

switch or router) in between points so it's pretty easy to guess what

device could be causing it. I know ping will only tell me when the

card could no longer be reached but it gives me evidence that the

connection went down and what time it happened. The problem I would

have is getting the networking folks to let me see the log on the

router or switch to see the last time it's been messed with to

determine if someone indeed is doing something or if the problem lies

elsewhere. Rather than point fingers, I'd just need evidence. I'm sure

there are better ways than what I'm suggesting, such as a laptop to

log traffic. I just don't have access much less cooperation from the

networking folks for this kind of thing. Trust me when I say they

would not be inclined to assist me if it meant revealing that they do

make changes to the network mid-day without any notification. Cheers.

 

- Thee Chicago Wolf

[Guest Anthony [MVP]]

Re: Monitoring loss of connectivity of printers via PING or SNMP?

 

To answer your question directly, practically any monitoring software will

monitor ping replies and snmp, so its a question of budget and requirements.

There's a ton of open source, and you can use a virtual appliance to save

the trouble of setting it up e.g. this:

http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/372 and many more.

 

Like AW, I have a feeling this won't get you very far. You may have a

problem with the JetDirect firmware, or the printer drivers. Or it may be a

fault in the switch. You may as well update the firmware and drivers anyway.

Then you need to find a way to take each of the components out of the

equation:

- change the printer driver on one of the printers

- use a print server appliance on one of the printers

- bypass the switch on one of the printers.

Hope that helps,

Anthony,

http://www.airdesk.co.uk

 

 

 

 

 

"Thee Chicago Wolf" <.@.> wrote in message

news:0mne94h94l2jsorie893tmschol0neq7t3@4ax.com...

>>Im not sure a simple ping will tell you if its the JetDirect card, or

>>someone

>>at the wireing closet. All ping will do is tell you when the printer

>>doesnt

>>answer anymore.

>>Your looking to find "where" the loss of connection is occuring right?.

>>

>>Id be tempted to stick a laptop on one of the printer nodes and get it to

>>sniff and log the network traffic. That should give you an idea of where

>>the

>>break (if any) is occuring, when and what packets are flying about at the

>>time.

>

> Ideally, yes, a laptop to monitor it would be good but I don't have

> that luxury. This is a print server running print management software

> so the failure is occurring between the Server NIC (Point A) and the

> Jet Direct card (Point B). A tracert shows only one device (an Alcatel

> switch or router) in between points so it's pretty easy to guess what

> device could be causing it. I know ping will only tell me when the

> card could no longer be reached but it gives me evidence that the

> connection went down and what time it happened. The problem I would

> have is getting the networking folks to let me see the log on the

> router or switch to see the last time it's been messed with to

> determine if someone indeed is doing something or if the problem lies

> elsewhere. Rather than point fingers, I'd just need evidence. I'm sure

> there are better ways than what I'm suggesting, such as a laptop to

> log traffic. I just don't have access much less cooperation from the

> networking folks for this kind of thing. Trust me when I say they

> would not be inclined to assist me if it meant revealing that they do

> make changes to the network mid-day without any notification. Cheers.

>

> - Thee Chicago Wolf

[Guest Thee Chicago Wolf]

Re: Monitoring loss of connectivity of printers via PING or SNMP?

 

>To answer your question directly, practically any monitoring software will

>monitor ping replies and snmp, so its a question of budget and requirements.

>There's a ton of open source, and you can use a virtual appliance to save

>the trouble of setting it up e.g. this:

>http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/372 and many more.

 

I was digging around on sourceforge for some simple app that would do

this but haven't yet found something. I'm still looking though.

>Like AW, I have a feeling this won't get you very far. You may have a

>problem with the JetDirect firmware, or the printer drivers. Or it may be a

>fault in the switch. You may as well update the firmware and drivers anyway.

>Then you need to find a way to take each of the components out of the

>equation:

>- change the printer driver on one of the printers

>- use a print server appliance on one of the printers

>- bypass the switch on one of the printers.

>Hope that helps,

>Anthony,

>http://www.airdesk.co.uk

 

Well, here's the problem. All the firmwares and drivers are fully up

to date. Not only that, two of the printers have the latest gigabit

JetDirects in them as I thought maybe the older models just don't like

something on the LAN. The only problem is that we have 10 8150s in

other locations and they've never thrown a 79 error. It's always been

specific to this one lab. I'm convinced it's not the firmware,

network cable, jet direct, printer, server 2003, server NIC driver,

printer driver, service pack level, etc. It would be weird if one

printer threw a 79 error, but when all four do it at the same time?

That's just not coincidence. And as I said before, I am able to

recreate the error by yanking the network cable. It throws the exact

same 79 error. It more unnerving because we can go a couple month with

no issues and then all of a sudden, wham.

 

Thankfully we'll be retiring our old dinosaurs for some new 9040s this

coming Fall so hopefully the errors will diminish or go away fully.

Thanks for your inut though.

 

- Thee Chicago Wolf

[Guest JohnB]

Re: Monitoring loss of connectivity of printers via PING or SNMP?

 

You haven't said; do you know of other network devices that go offline the

same time as the 8150's?

Are they on a VLAN? If so, are there any other devices on that VLAN?

 

As a troubleshooting step you could setup a PC or laptop on that subnet or

VLAN and configure some kind of ping test from it to the print server. If

some device other than a 8150 looses communication the same time as the

printers, I'd think you would have some good ammunination when approaching

the network folks, that it isn't just a printer problem.

 

 

 

 

"Thee Chicago Wolf" <.@.> wrote in message

news:nujg94dqt26iesfd1virnn62tubft9teng@4ax.com...

> >To answer your question directly, practically any monitoring software

> >will

>>monitor ping replies and snmp, so its a question of budget and

>>requirements.

>>There's a ton of open source, and you can use a virtual appliance to save

>>the trouble of setting it up e.g. this:

>>http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/372 and many more.

>

> I was digging around on sourceforge for some simple app that would do

> this but haven't yet found something. I'm still looking though.

>

>>Like AW, I have a feeling this won't get you very far. You may have a

>>problem with the JetDirect firmware, or the printer drivers. Or it may be

>>a

>>fault in the switch. You may as well update the firmware and drivers

>>anyway.

>>Then you need to find a way to take each of the components out of the

>>equation:

>>- change the printer driver on one of the printers

>>- use a print server appliance on one of the printers

>>- bypass the switch on one of the printers.

>>Hope that helps,

>>Anthony,

>>http://www.airdesk.co.uk

>

> Well, here's the problem. All the firmwares and drivers are fully up

> to date. Not only that, two of the printers have the latest gigabit

> JetDirects in them as I thought maybe the older models just don't like

> something on the LAN. The only problem is that we have 10 8150s in

> other locations and they've never thrown a 79 error. It's always been

> specific to this one lab. I'm convinced it's not the firmware,

> network cable, jet direct, printer, server 2003, server NIC driver,

> printer driver, service pack level, etc. It would be weird if one

> printer threw a 79 error, but when all four do it at the same time?

> That's just not coincidence. And as I said before, I am able to

> recreate the error by yanking the network cable. It throws the exact

> same 79 error. It more unnerving because we can go a couple month with

> no issues and then all of a sudden, wham.

>

> Thankfully we'll be retiring our old dinosaurs for some new 9040s this

> coming Fall so hopefully the errors will diminish or go away fully.

> Thanks for your inut though.

>

> - Thee Chicago Wolf

[Guest Thee Chicago Wolf]

Re: Monitoring loss of connectivity of printers via PING or SNMP?

 

>You haven't said; do you know of other network devices that go offline the

>same time as the 8150's?

>Are they on a VLAN? If so, are there any other devices on that VLAN?

>

>As a troubleshooting step you could setup a PC or laptop on that subnet or

>VLAN and configure some kind of ping test from it to the print server. If

>some device other than a 8150 looses communication the same time as the

>printers, I'd think you would have some good ammunination when approaching

>the network folks, that it isn't just a printer problem.

 

The location has about 80+ PCs and a couple are ones our students use.

They are on VLANs as far as I know. I could likely put some app on the

PC that ran at startup and logged to a folder I suppose. If their

connection went down when and if a printer threw a 79 error, it would

be evidenced in the log. I would think that if I did this approach,

I'd still want the same utility on the server, doing the same. See now

I am wondering if I would also want the lab PC pinging the JetDirect,

the switch in between and also the server as well as the server

pinging the switch and the jetdirect card. Maybe that would complicate

matters more but in theory it would likely point to the problem being

between the switch and the printers or between the server and the

switch, no?

 

I'll take your advice into consideration when thinking about how I'm

going to try and figure this out. That's for the input!

 

 

- Thee Chicago Wolf

[Guest JohnB]

Re: Monitoring loss of connectivity of printers via PING or SNMP?

 

> I am wondering if I would also want the lab PC pinging the JetDirect,

> the switch in between and also the server as well as the server

> pinging the switch and the jetdirect card. Maybe that would complicate

> matters more but in theory it would likely point to the problem being

> between the switch and the printers or between the server and the

> switch, no?

>

The only hitch I see in all that is, you said months could go by before the

problem shows up. That's a lot of traffic (ping tests) on the network for

months. This is just my 2-cents, but I think your biggest problem is

getting the network folks to cooperate, and they don't seem to want to do

that because they are of the opinion that it's "a printer problem". And if

you could just prove that one device, that isn't a printer, has a

connectivity problem the same time as the printer, you could win your

battle. My point being; I wouldn't do all that other ping testing.

[Guest Thee Chicago Wolf]

Re: Monitoring loss of connectivity of printers via PING or SNMP?

 

>The only hitch I see in all that is, you said months could go by before the

>problem shows up. That's a lot of traffic (ping tests) on the network for

>months. This is just my 2-cents, but I think your biggest problem is

>getting the network folks to cooperate, and they don't seem to want to do

>that because they are of the opinion that it's "a printer problem". And if

>you could just prove that one device, that isn't a printer, has a

>connectivity problem the same time as the printer, you could win your

>battle. My point being; I wouldn't do all that other ping testing.

 

Right. It is my main problem that they would not cooperate. If I were

to do a pinging test, I would set it to something benign like every

5-10 seconds so it's not a lot of strain on the devices and LAN. I

think that's a tolerable amount. It's really dumb that I would have to

resort to this but when I'm dealing with a networking departments who

never wrong or always says it's us, not them, I need evidence and way

I can get it.

 

- Thee Chicago Wolf