Guest Alias Posted August 10, 2008 Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Registry Cleaning Daave wrote: > "Alias" <iamalias@gmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message > news:g7mmn1$ost$2@aioe.org... >> Daave wrote: >>> "Alias" <iamalias@gmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message >>> news:g7lcd8$ka6$1@aioe.org... >>> >>>> I just find it ironic that a lot the MVPs (except Carey Frisch, of >>>> course; he's sold on One Care and a "Vista Enthusiast) are saying >>>> that registry cleaners are snake oil when Microsoft has one of their >>>> own. >>> Although I understand what you're saying, upon closer consideration, >>> there is no irony IMO. There is a big difference between the >>> Microsoft corporation (which has its profit motive and markets its >>> products accordingly) and users of Microsoft products (who do not >>> share this motive and are thus more independent). It's sort of like >>> when citizens of a nation disagree with their government's actions. >> More like subjects that disagree with the monarchy. There aren't any >> elections in Redmond. It also confirms my contention that Microsoft >> not only doesn't care about their paying customers but holds them in >> total disdain. > > A bit hyperbolic, More like understated. > but I would agree that Microsoft cares more about > their profits than their customers. They consider each and every customer to be a thief until they prove otherwise. That's disdain towards their customers, not "caring more about profits". > But that's how all corporations > operate. As soon as a corporation starts holding their paying customers with disdain, it is the beginning of the end for them. Without paying customers, no profit, no shareholders, no corporation. > The MVPs care more about Microsoft's customers than Microsoft's > profits, don't you agree? Depends on the MVP. Some do, some don't. Alias
Guest Daave Posted August 10, 2008 Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Registry Cleaning "Alias" <iamalias@gmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message news:g7n2k5$c7r$2@aioe.org... > Daave wrote: >> "Alias" <iamalias@gmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message >> news:g7mmn1$ost$2@aioe.org... >>> Daave wrote: >>>> "Alias" <iamalias@gmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message >>>> news:g7lcd8$ka6$1@aioe.org... >>>> >>>>> I just find it ironic that a lot the MVPs (except Carey Frisch, of >>>>> course; he's sold on One Care and a "Vista Enthusiast) are saying >>>>> that registry cleaners are snake oil when Microsoft has one of >>>>> their >>>>> own. >>>> Although I understand what you're saying, upon closer >>>> consideration, there is no irony IMO. There is a big difference >>>> between the Microsoft corporation (which has its profit motive and >>>> markets its products accordingly) and users of Microsoft products >>>> (who do not share this motive and are thus more independent). It's >>>> sort of like when citizens of a nation disagree with their >>>> government's actions. >>> More like subjects that disagree with the monarchy. There aren't any >>> elections in Redmond. It also confirms my contention that Microsoft >>> not only doesn't care about their paying customers but holds them in >>> total disdain. >> >> A bit hyperbolic, > > More like understated. > >> but I would agree that Microsoft cares more about their profits than >> their customers. > > They consider each and every customer to be a thief until they prove > otherwise. That's disdain towards their customers, not "caring more > about profits". The two notions are not mutually exclusive. The profit motive is what drives their disdain. Like it or not, Microsoft is simply playing by the rules. You might not like the rules (which may favor oligopoly and monopoly), and neither do I. The answer lies in changing the rules. Criticizing Microsoft, even if it is justified, doesn't change the situation. This means that people who live in representative democracies need to elect more people to government who care about the issues you and I care about. It means that elected officials who are usually also running for re-election and rely on campaign donations from companies like Microsoft exercise more independence. Will we see this behavior in our lifetimes? I don't know. But the real problem is the political economic system. It's not too different from the sad state of access to health care and health care insurance in the United States. The problem has already been diagnosed. A solution has been proposed (Single Payer health insurance). Of course the mainstream media haven't been including this idea in any debates (not that there are that many to begin with) on this issue -- probably because of where they get a lot of their advertising dollars. Again, as upsetting and distasteful it is to see these corporations make their profits and manipulate the media to continue to do so, the problem lies more in the system that allows them to do so in the first place. >> But that's how all corporations operate. > > As soon as a corporation starts holding their paying customers with > disdain, it is the beginning of the end for them. Without paying > customers, no profit, no shareholders, no corporation. And we are nowhere near that tipping point. Lots of people will put up with what they see as minor inconveniences (WPA, WGA, etc.). For the time being, though, the amount of perceived disdain is nowhere near as high as your perception, so profits will continue, I am sure. I suppose you're hoping to stir up enough discontent so that a butterfly effect will take place eventually culminating in real change (assuming there is a significant number of others who will also complain and convince others to come around to their way of thinking). That is your right, and good luck. I won't disagree. (But I won't hold my breath, either.) >> The MVPs care more about Microsoft's customers than Microsoft's >> profits, don't you agree? > > Depends on the MVP. Some do, some don't. From what I've seen, the overwhelming majority do.
Guest HeyBub Posted August 10, 2008 Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Registry Cleaning Alias wrote: > > More like subjects that disagree with the monarchy. There aren't any > elections in Redmond. It also confirms my contention that Microsoft > not only doesn't care about their paying customers but holds them in > total disdain. > There are elections on behalf of Redmond. I vote every year on the board of directors. Several million votes are cast, actually. As for products, people vote with their wallets. If it's a good product, people buy it. If it's an absolutely horrid product, people don't buy it (or use it in the case of Linux).
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted August 10, 2008 Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Registry Cleaning It is SO sad when someone insists on being so totally stupid and especially so consistently wrong in public. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com " db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:O1%23w13v%23IHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > you to find a publisher > instead of a windows > newsgroup. > > in the interim the first > source of information > for windows comes > directly from microsoft. > > http://onecare.live.com/site/en-US/article/registry_cleaner_why.htm > > all others need not > pretend to be experts, > including mvp's. > > (brown nosing mvp's that > bash the hand that feeds > their egos is unprofessional) > -- > > db·´¯`·...¸><)))º> > > > "Kayman" <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote in message > news:OPo3run%23IHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 12:09:26 -0500, >> databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com wrote: >> >>> Why do want to sabotage >>> peoples computers and >>> say not to use Microsoft's >>> registry cleaner and other >>> system maintenance utilities >>> they engineered for >>> Windows? >>> >> It's called 'bowing under customer pressure'! >> Most of the users are not very well versed when it comes to the innards >> of >> the Windows NT system. >> As you and others may well be aware, the general public is very fair game >> of advertisement attacks. When companies advertise their products in >> various PC magazines and get "favourable" reviews from the 'in-house' >> (so-called) "experts", the unassuming reader will believe this hype >> without >> questioning it; Not realizing that these reviews are driven by the >> advertisement dollar (the same applies incidentally to 3rd party >> firewalls >> -PFW- ). >> >> Now, the costumer informed by these biased reports want to have these >> software (especilally when its 'free' and has an 'attractive' interface >> and >> icon to look at. >> >> It is sad that MSFT Marketing Department for inexplicable reasons is >> following this trend instead of educating the public about the perils of >> these r/cleaners. >> Just looking at the additions offered in WLOC makes me wonder if they >> have >> lost the plot. >> >> But it is refreshing that at least some knowledgable MVP's are standing >> up >> speaking against the use of these software! >> >> IMO, MSFT's software engineers (the people who actually intimitaly know >> their products) are often antagonized by their very own Marketing >> Department (the people who mostly care about anything but realities); >> Which >> BTW is very common in large companies. One only has to look at Sunbelt >> (the >> makers of Kerio Firewall), the situation is almost identical concerning a >> certain software product. But their software engineers actually admitted >> the hype created by their advertisement department is nothing but hot >> air! >> >> db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>, based on reading some previous posts from you, you >> seem >> knowledgable enough to realize that some 3rd party software applictions >> are >> nothing but snake oil and am surprised (even if they're suported by MSFT) >> you're touting this kind product. >> You are provoking inessential debates and (in this case) providing a >> dis-service to the uninformed readers here! >
Guest Paul Montgomery Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 Re: Registry Cleaning On Aug 10, 6:36 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote: > It is SO sad when someone insists on being so totally stupid and especially > so consistently wrong in public. "db" and Carey would make great butt bu.. er, room mates.
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 Re: Registry Cleaning Give 'em PCButts to keep them in line, <g>. Though I'm not really sure which end of the whip PCB prefers. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com "Paul Montgomery" <i.m.nonnymous@gmail.com> wrote in message news:6b27b6dc-94b7-436e-8e45-604672fedb09@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... On Aug 10, 6:36 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote: > It is SO sad when someone insists on being so totally stupid and > especially > so consistently wrong in public. "db" and Carey would make great butt bu.. er, room mates.
Guest db.·.. > Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 Re: Registry Cleaning what is sad is that you represent the mvp organization which is a microsoft product. the product is faulty like your character. -- db·´¯`·...¸><)))º> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message news:uCnf8f2%23IHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Give 'em PCButts to keep them in line, <g>. Though I'm not really sure which end of the whip PCB prefers. > > -- > Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User > http://grystmill.com > > "Paul Montgomery" <i.m.nonnymous@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:6b27b6dc-94b7-436e-8e45-604672fedb09@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On Aug 10, 6:36 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote: > >> It is SO sad when someone insists on being so totally stupid and especially >> so consistently wrong in public. > > "db" and Carey would make great butt bu.. er, room mates. >
Guest Alias Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 Re: Registry Cleaning Daave wrote: > "Alias" <iamalias@gmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message > news:g7n2k5$c7r$2@aioe.org... >> Daave wrote: >>> "Alias" <iamalias@gmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message >>> news:g7mmn1$ost$2@aioe.org... >>>> Daave wrote: >>>>> "Alias" <iamalias@gmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:g7lcd8$ka6$1@aioe.org... >>>>> >>>>>> I just find it ironic that a lot the MVPs (except Carey Frisch, of >>>>>> course; he's sold on One Care and a "Vista Enthusiast) are saying >>>>>> that registry cleaners are snake oil when Microsoft has one of >>>>>> their >>>>>> own. >>>>> Although I understand what you're saying, upon closer >>>>> consideration, there is no irony IMO. There is a big difference >>>>> between the Microsoft corporation (which has its profit motive and >>>>> markets its products accordingly) and users of Microsoft products >>>>> (who do not share this motive and are thus more independent). It's >>>>> sort of like when citizens of a nation disagree with their >>>>> government's actions. >>>> More like subjects that disagree with the monarchy. There aren't any >>>> elections in Redmond. It also confirms my contention that Microsoft >>>> not only doesn't care about their paying customers but holds them in >>>> total disdain. >>> A bit hyperbolic, >> More like understated. >> >>> but I would agree that Microsoft cares more about their profits than >>> their customers. >> They consider each and every customer to be a thief until they prove >> otherwise. That's disdain towards their customers, not "caring more >> about profits". > > The two notions are not mutually exclusive. The profit motive is what > drives their disdain. Like it or not, Microsoft is simply playing by the > rules. You might not like the rules (which may favor oligopoly and > monopoly), and neither do I. The answer lies in changing the rules. > Criticizing Microsoft, even if it is justified, doesn't change the > situation. This means that people who live in representative democracies > need to elect more people to government who care about the issues you > and I care about. It means that elected officials who are usually also > running for re-election and rely on campaign donations from companies > like Microsoft exercise more independence. Will we see this behavior in > our lifetimes? I don't know. But the real problem is the political > economic system. It's not too different from the sad state of access to > health care and health care insurance in the United States. The problem > has already been diagnosed. A solution has been proposed (Single Payer > health insurance). Of course the mainstream media haven't been including > this idea in any debates (not that there are that many to begin with) on > this issue -- probably because of where they get a lot of their > advertising dollars. Again, as upsetting and distasteful it is to see > these corporations make their profits and manipulate the media to > continue to do so, the problem lies more in the system that allows them > to do so in the first place. > >>> But that's how all corporations operate. >> As soon as a corporation starts holding their paying customers with >> disdain, it is the beginning of the end for them. Without paying >> customers, no profit, no shareholders, no corporation. > > And we are nowhere near that tipping point. Lots of people will put up > with what they see as minor inconveniences (WPA, WGA, etc.). For the > time being, though, the amount of perceived disdain is nowhere near as > high as your perception, so profits will continue, I am sure. I suppose > you're hoping to stir up enough discontent so that a butterfly effect > will take place eventually culminating in real change (assuming there is > a significant number of others who will also complain and convince > others to come around to their way of thinking). That is your right, and > good luck. I won't disagree. (But I won't hold my breath, either.) I'm using Ubuntu. I voted with my pocketbook. You're using Windows. Alias > >>> The MVPs care more about Microsoft's customers than Microsoft's >>> profits, don't you agree? >> Depends on the MVP. Some do, some don't. > > From what I've seen, the overwhelming majority do. > >
Guest Alias Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 Re: Registry Cleaning HeyBub wrote: > Alias wrote: >> More like subjects that disagree with the monarchy. There aren't any >> elections in Redmond. It also confirms my contention that Microsoft >> not only doesn't care about their paying customers but holds them in >> total disdain. >> > > There are elections on behalf of Redmond. I vote every year on the board of > directors. Several million votes are cast, actually. What do you vote for? > > As for products, people vote with their wallets. Which is why I use Ubuntu. > > If it's a good product, people buy it. If it's an absolutely horrid product, > people don't buy it (or use it in the case of Linux). Millions are switching to Linux and if Microsoft keeps up their "you are a thief until you prove otherwise" trip, millions more will take the time to learn Linux and switch. Alias
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