Backups on a new drive

[Guest Sharkman@comcast.net]

So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire C

drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new C

drive?

 

thanks

sharkman

 

--

[Guest Alias]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire C

> drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new C

> drive?

>

> thanks

> sharkman

>

 

You can clone your entire old drive to the new one. Go to the hard drive

manufacturer's web site to get the cloning program. It's free. If it's a

Seagate, it's called Seagate DiscWizard and if it's a Maxtor, it's

called MaxBlaster.

 

Alias

[Guest Malke]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire C

> drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new C

> drive?

 

No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental backups,

too.

 

Malke

--

MS-MVP

Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!

FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

[Guest BillW50]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>

>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire C

>> drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new C

>> drive?

>

> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental backups,

> too.

 

Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may have

to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as I have

the most control over what is actually going on.

 

--

Bill

Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

BillW50 wrote:

> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>

>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire C

>>> drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new C

>>> drive?

>>

>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental backups,

>> too.

>

> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may have

> to make the MBR though.

 

Which may be a bit challenging. Why bother, when True Image does it all?

> I actually like this method the best as I have

> the most control over what is actually going on.

>

> --

> Bill

> Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

> MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

> Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

> Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest Ken Blake, MVP]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:35:32 -0500, BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

> > Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

> >

> >> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire C

> >> drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new C

> >> drive?

> >

> > No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

> > preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental backups,

> > too.

>

> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over.

 

 

Sorry, Bill, that's not right. What Malke said is correct. You can

copy data files over but not applications. Applications that are

copied or moved will not run (there's an occasional small

self-contained exception to that, but as a general rule, it's true).

 

> You may have

> to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as I have

> the most control over what is actually going on.

>

> --

> Bill

> Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

> MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

> Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

> Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

 

--

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

Please Reply to the Newsgroup

[Guest BillW50]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

Ken Blake, MVP wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:55:54 -0700:

> On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:35:32 -0500, BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>

>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>

>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire C

>>>> drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new C

>>>> drive?

>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental backups,

>>> too.

>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over.

>

> Sorry, Bill, that's not right. What Malke said is correct. You can

> copy data files over but not applications. Applications that are

> copied or moved will not run (there's an occasional small

> self-contained exception to that, but as a general rule, it's true).

>

>> You may have

>> to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as I have

>> the most control over what is actually going on.

 

No that isn't what I mean Ken. Although there are a lot of programs that

don't mind to be moved around. The best ones also don't mind being put

on a system that never even had it installed before. I see a lot of

these kinds of programs. What that isn't what I was talking about.

 

What I learned along time ago is that Windows doesn't like copying

itself to somewhere else. Like to a new hard drive for example so you

can swap out the old and replace it with the new. Windows don't like it

as Windows locks files in use.

 

What many backup and cloning programs do, is make the user reboot and

only the backup software is running and Windows isn't. While other

programs can copy whether or not Windows has them locked or not. I don't

know what the trick they use to pull this off, but I don't think Windows

should stop you from copying itself anyway.

 

Although I use BartPE on a CD or on a stick and thus no file is locked

on the hard drive, because none of the files are in use. And yes you can

copy all of the files and folders to a new hard drive (including

Windows) and it will work fine (as long as the new partition has a MBR

for it). And I do it all of the time. The only folders that I don't copy

are the RECYCLER and the System Volume Information folders. As I just

allow Windows it recreate them when ran from the new drive.

 

--

Bill

Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

BillW50 wrote:

> Ken Blake, MVP wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:55:54 -0700:

>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:35:32 -0500, BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>>

>>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire

>>>>> C

>>>>> drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new

>>>>> C

>>>>> drive?

>>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental backups,

>>>> too.

>>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over.

>>

>> Sorry, Bill, that's not right. What Malke said is correct. You can

>> copy data files over but not applications. Applications that are

>> copied or moved will not run (there's an occasional small

>> self-contained exception to that, but as a general rule, it's true).

>>

>>> You may have

>>> to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as I have

>>> the most control over what is actually going on.

>

> No that isn't what I mean Ken. Although there are a lot of programs that

> don't mind to be moved around. The best ones also don't mind being put

> on a system that never even had it installed before. I see a lot of

> these kinds of programs. What that isn't what I was talking about.

>

> What I learned along time ago is that Windows doesn't like copying

> itself to somewhere else. Like to a new hard drive for example so you

> can swap out the old and replace it with the new. Windows don't like it

> as Windows locks files in use.

>

> What many backup and cloning programs do, is make the user reboot and

> only the backup software is running and Windows isn't. While other

> programs can copy whether or not Windows has them locked or not. I don't

> know what the trick they use to pull this off, but I don't think Windows

> should stop you from copying itself anyway.

 

I think they boot in their own Linux-like operating system, or at least

Acronis appears to do that. And BootItNG has its own boot system.

 

I don't see the problem with that, whatsoever - PLUS you don't have to worry

about the MBR being "set right" (which is a major dealbreaker, I think). I

don't see the big issue here. Oh, and in your approach, if you don't copy

the System Volume Information folders, you have lost that System Restore

fallback capability. Not good.

> Although I use BartPE on a CD or on a stick and thus no file is locked

> on the hard drive, because none of the files are in use. And yes you can

> copy all of the files and folders to a new hard drive (including

> Windows) and it will work fine (as long as the new partition has a MBR

> for it). And I do it all of the time. The only folders that I don't copy

> are the RECYCLER and the System Volume Information folders. As I just

> allow Windows it recreate them when ran from the new drive.

>

> --

> Bill

> Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

> MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

> Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

> Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest BillW50]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

Bill in Co. wrote:

> BillW50 wrote:

>> No that isn't what I mean Ken. Although there are a lot of programs that

>> don't mind to be moved around. The best ones also don't mind being put

>> on a system that never even had it installed before. I see a lot of

>> these kinds of programs. What that isn't what I was talking about.

>>

>> What I learned along time ago is that Windows doesn't like copying

>> itself to somewhere else. Like to a new hard drive for example so you

>> can swap out the old and replace it with the new. Windows don't like it

>> as Windows locks files in use.

>>

>> What many backup and cloning programs do, is make the user reboot and

>> only the backup software is running and Windows isn't. While other

>> programs can copy whether or not Windows has them locked or not. I don't

>> know what the trick they use to pull this off, but I don't think Windows

>> should stop you from copying itself anyway.

>

> I think they boot in their own Linux-like operating system, or at least

> Acronis appears to do that. And BootItNG has its own boot system.

>

> I don't see the problem with that, whatsoever - PLUS you don't have to worry

> about the MBR being "set right" (which is a major dealbreaker, I think). I

> don't see the big issue here. Oh, and in your approach, if you don't copy

> the System Volume Information folders, you have lost that System Restore

> fallback capability. Not good.

 

Bill! I have the old hard drive still, remember? I suppose I could copy

the System Restore data as well. But I never needed it yet whenever I

clone a new hard drive. And setting the MBR right should be something

any computer expert should be able to do anyway. ;-)

 

--

Bill

Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest Twayne]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>

>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my

>>> entire C drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data

>>> onto a new C drive?

>>

>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental

>> backups, too.

>

> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may

> have to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as

> I have the most control over what is actually going on.

 

Yes, so. More specifically, in order to copy ALL files, including those

which are in use, you need to use a program that makes use of the Shadow

Copy Services which must, of course, be started and running, which is

the default.

Without Shadow Copy ability, you will NOT get a usable copy of the

operating system. And having to make the MBR is beyond the knowledge of

many people, so it's not really a good statement to make here.

 

As already stated the best solution is to use and imaging program or at

least XP's native ntbackup.exe.

[Guest Patrick Keenan]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

 

"Sharkman@comcast.net" <sharkman@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:K7ydnalZDZmV8j3VnZ2dnUVZ_tXinZ2d@comcast.com...

> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire C

> drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new C

> drive?

>

> thanks

> sharkman

>

> --

 

No, this *will not* work as you wish. In the first place, when you copy

the files back, key files (if they were copied at all in the first place)

will not go to the precise locations they have to.

 

Second, if your system fails, you will have no way to mount that drive and

copy the files back - and even if you did, it won't be bootable.

 

Copying files this way is not only pointless for the purpose, but it is

time-consuming. It can take hours and hours, while an imaging program,

such as Acronis TrueImage or Ghost, can perform the task often in under half

an hour.

 

Plus, it will allow you to create a bootable DVD that leads directly to your

external hard disk and will restore promptly.

 

Finally, modern imaging software will help you keep up-to-date backups of

your data. It's very easy to use and is not expensive.

 

Don't waste your time attempting a straight copy. Do it properly, instead.

 

HTH

-pk

[Guest Patrick Keenan]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

 

"Twayne" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message

news:Ob6bmCC$IHA.3964@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>

>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my

>>>> entire C drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data

>>>> onto a new C drive?

>>>

>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental

>>> backups, too.

>>

>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may

>> have to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as

>> I have the most control over what is actually going on.

>

> Yes, so. More specifically, in order to copy ALL files, including those

> which are in use, you need to use a program that makes use of the Shadow

> Copy Services which must, of course, be started and running, which is the

> default.

> Without Shadow Copy ability, you will NOT get a usable copy of the

> operating system. And having to make the MBR is beyond the knowledge of

> many people, so it's not really a good statement to make here.

>

> As already stated the best solution is to use and imaging program or at

> least XP's native ntbackup.exe.

 

It's worth noting, not least because ntbackup is a little bit shy about

telling you this, that the "imaging" function of ntbackup, ASR, does not

work on XP Home.

 

It will allow you to go all the way through the steps for ASR and then fail

without telling you that you actually need XP Pro to use it.

 

There's also the issue of the ntbackup requirement for a floppy drive and

lack of support for optical drives making 3rd party imagers a better choice,

but that's another story.

 

-pk

[Guest Sharkman@comcast.net]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

So, can someone tell me the purpose of the Windows Backup that I find in

Accessories-System Tools?

 

Thanks

sharkman

 

 

--

..

"Patrick Keenan" <test@dev.null> wrote in message

news:OyRf$nC$IHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>

> "Sharkman@comcast.net" <sharkman@comcast.net> wrote in message

> news:K7ydnalZDZmV8j3VnZ2dnUVZ_tXinZ2d@comcast.com...

>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my entire C

>> drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data onto a new C

>> drive?

>>

>> thanks

>> sharkman

>>

>> --

>

> No, this *will not* work as you wish. In the first place, when you copy

> the files back, key files (if they were copied at all in the first place)

> will not go to the precise locations they have to.

>

> Second, if your system fails, you will have no way to mount that drive and

> copy the files back - and even if you did, it won't be bootable.

>

> Copying files this way is not only pointless for the purpose, but it is

> time-consuming. It can take hours and hours, while an imaging program,

> such as Acronis TrueImage or Ghost, can perform the task often in under

> half an hour.

>

> Plus, it will allow you to create a bootable DVD that leads directly to

> your external hard disk and will restore promptly.

>

> Finally, modern imaging software will help you keep up-to-date backups of

> your data. It's very easy to use and is not expensive.

>

> Don't waste your time attempting a straight copy. Do it properly,

> instead.

>

> HTH

> -pk

>

[Guest BillW50]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

> So, can someone tell me the purpose of the Windows Backup that I find in

> Accessories-System Tools?

>

> Thanks

> sharkman

 

If you are using Windows XP Home, I believe it works fine for data files

and files that are not in use. But it doesn't backup locked files (which

is usually system files) IMHO.

 

--

Bill

Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest BillW50]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

Twayne wrote:

>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>

>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my

>>>> entire C drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data

>>>> onto a new C drive?

>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental

>>> backups, too.

>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may

>> have to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as

>> I have the most control over what is actually going on.

>

> Yes, so. More specifically, in order to copy ALL files, including those

> which are in use, you need to use a program that makes use of the Shadow

> Copy Services which must, of course, be started and running, which is

> the default.

> Without Shadow Copy ability, you will NOT get a usable copy of the

> operating system. And having to make the MBR is beyond the knowledge of

> many people, so it's not really a good statement to make here.

>

> As already stated the best solution is to use and imaging program or at

> least XP's native ntbackup.exe.

 

For starters ntbackup.exe doesn't work with Windows XP Home. This is

mentioned here all of the time. And I have two retail and 3 OEM versions

of Windows XP Home. And I don't see me paying for 5 copies of Windows XP

Pro.

 

Second I don't know anything about Shadow Copy ability, which is a new

term to me. But I know files can be locked and can't normally be copied.

In this case I am curious if one uses Unlocker if this solves the problem?

 

Thirdly Shadow Copy ability doesn't seem to be a problem when you boot

from another OS like BartPE. As I have access to everything on the drive

and copy all (or any part), modify, and delete anything I want too. I

have cloned Windows many times over the years using this method.

Starting back since the Windows 3.1 ('93 era) days. You may need to

create a new MBR on the new drive and fix boot.ini, but isn't a big

problem either.

 

--

Bill

Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest BillW50]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

In news:uErEWK%23%23IHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl,

Bill in Co. typed:

> BillW50 wrote:

>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>

>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my

>>>> entire C drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and

>>>> data onto a new C drive?

>>>

>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental

>>> backups, too.

>>

>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may

>> have to make the MBR though.

>

> Which may be a bit challenging. Why bother, when True Image does it

> all?

 

Are you sure? How does it deal with the drive letter problem when you clone

a hard drive and swap the two hard drives around? Now the cloned OS is

booting and sees the old OS is now over there and the cloned one over here

and then Windows gets confused and keeps the original drive as C and the

cloned one is being booted as what it was before. And when this happens,

Windows hangs while it is booting.

 

I haven't tried True Image, but my Asus EEE PC Recovery DVD uses Ghost. And

my cheap no name external DVD burner from China sold on eBay doesn't like to

read Ghost and others I assume images. As it gets a read/write error and

fails and stops. But it has no problems reading and copying files at all and

BartPE works perfectly with it.

 

--

Bill

Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest John John (MVP)]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

BillW50 wrote:

> Twayne wrote:

>

>>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>>

>>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my

>>>>> entire C drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data

>>>>> onto a new C drive?

>>>>

>>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental

>>>> backups, too.

>>>

>>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may

>>> have to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as

>>> I have the most control over what is actually going on.

>>

>>

>> Yes, so. More specifically, in order to copy ALL files, including

>> those which are in use, you need to use a program that makes use of

>> the Shadow Copy Services which must, of course, be started and

>> running, which is the default.

>> Without Shadow Copy ability, you will NOT get a usable copy of the

>> operating system. And having to make the MBR is beyond the knowledge

>> of many people, so it's not really a good statement to make here.

>>

>> As already stated the best solution is to use and imaging program or

>> at least XP's native ntbackup.exe.

>

>

> For starters ntbackup.exe doesn't work with Windows XP Home.

 

That is not true, ASR does not work with Windows XP Home but otherwise

Ntbackup works with XP Home.

 

John

[Guest BillW50]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

John John (MVP) wrote:

> BillW50 wrote:

>

>> Twayne wrote:

>>

>>>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>>>

>>>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my

>>>>>> entire C drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data

>>>>>> onto a new C drive?

>>>>>

>>>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental

>>>>> backups, too.

>>>>

>>>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>>>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may

>>>> have to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as

>>>> I have the most control over what is actually going on.

>>>

>>>

>>> Yes, so. More specifically, in order to copy ALL files, including

>>> those which are in use, you need to use a program that makes use of

>>> the Shadow Copy Services which must, of course, be started and

>>> running, which is the default.

>>> Without Shadow Copy ability, you will NOT get a usable copy of the

>>> operating system. And having to make the MBR is beyond the knowledge

>>> of many people, so it's not really a good statement to make here.

>>>

>>> As already stated the best solution is to use and imaging program or

>>> at least XP's native ntbackup.exe.

>>

>>

>> For starters ntbackup.exe doesn't work with Windows XP Home.

>

> That is not true, ASR does not work with Windows XP Home but otherwise

> Ntbackup works with XP Home.

>

> John

 

Okay I'll bite. What is ASR? And why when I backup my system (Windows XP

Home) to a new drive it won't work? Gosh forbid if my hard drive

actually fails and I learn this the hard way.

 

--

Bill

Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest John John (MVP)]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

BillW50 wrote:

> John John (MVP) wrote:

>

>> BillW50 wrote:

>>

>>> Twayne wrote:

>>>

>>>>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my

>>>>>>> entire C drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data

>>>>>>> onto a new C drive?

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>>>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental

>>>>>> backups, too.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>>>>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may

>>>>> have to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as

>>>>> I have the most control over what is actually going on.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Yes, so. More specifically, in order to copy ALL files, including

>>>> those which are in use, you need to use a program that makes use of

>>>> the Shadow Copy Services which must, of course, be started and

>>>> running, which is the default.

>>>> Without Shadow Copy ability, you will NOT get a usable copy of

>>>> the operating system. And having to make the MBR is beyond the

>>>> knowledge of many people, so it's not really a good statement to

>>>> make here.

>>>>

>>>> As already stated the best solution is to use and imaging program or

>>>> at least XP's native ntbackup.exe.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> For starters ntbackup.exe doesn't work with Windows XP Home.

>>

>>

>> That is not true, ASR does not work with Windows XP Home but otherwise

>> Ntbackup works with XP Home.

>>

>> John

>

>

> Okay I'll bite. What is ASR? And why when I backup my system (Windows XP

> Home) to a new drive it won't work? Gosh forbid if my hard drive

> actually fails and I learn this the hard way.

 

ASR is Automatic System Restore, the only way that NTBackup can be used

to completely backup and restore the operating system, XP Pro can do

this but XP Home cannot. Otherwise the NTBackup utility can be used to

backup data files and it works fine for that, but it isn't a cloning

utility.

 

John

[Guest John John (MVP)]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

John John (MVP) wrote:

> BillW50 wrote:

>

>> John John (MVP) wrote:

>>

>>> BillW50 wrote:

>>>

>>>> Twayne wrote:

>>>>

>>>>>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my

>>>>>>>> entire C drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and data

>>>>>>>> onto a new C drive?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>>>>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental

>>>>>>> backups, too.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>>>>>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may

>>>>>> have to make the MBR though. I actually like this method the best as

>>>>>> I have the most control over what is actually going on.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Yes, so. More specifically, in order to copy ALL files, including

>>>>> those which are in use, you need to use a program that makes use of

>>>>> the Shadow Copy Services which must, of course, be started and

>>>>> running, which is the default.

>>>>> Without Shadow Copy ability, you will NOT get a usable copy of

>>>>> the operating system. And having to make the MBR is beyond the

>>>>> knowledge of many people, so it's not really a good statement to

>>>>> make here.

>>>>>

>>>>> As already stated the best solution is to use and imaging program

>>>>> or at least XP's native ntbackup.exe.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> For starters ntbackup.exe doesn't work with Windows XP Home.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> That is not true, ASR does not work with Windows XP Home but

>>> otherwise Ntbackup works with XP Home.

>>>

>>> John

>>

>>

>>

>> Okay I'll bite. What is ASR? And why when I backup my system (Windows

>> XP Home) to a new drive it won't work? Gosh forbid if my hard drive

>> actually fails and I learn this the hard way.

>

>

> ASR is Automatic System Restore, the only way that NTBackup can be used

> to completely backup and restore the operating system, XP Pro can do

> this but XP Home cannot. Otherwise the NTBackup utility can be used to

> backup data files and it works fine for that, but it isn't a cloning

> utility.

 

PS: That should have read "ASR is Automated System Recovery..."

 

John

[Guest BillW50]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

John John (MVP) wrote:

> John John (MVP) wrote:

>> BillW50 wrote:

>>> Okay I'll bite. What is ASR? And why when I backup my system (Windows

>>> XP Home) to a new drive it won't work? Gosh forbid if my hard drive

>>> actually fails and I learn this the hard way.

>>

>> ASR is Automatic System Restore, the only way that NTBackup can be

>> used to completely backup and restore the operating system, XP Pro can

>> do this but XP Home cannot. Otherwise the NTBackup utility can be

>> used to backup data files and it works fine for that, but it isn't a

>> cloning utility.

>

> PS: That should have read "ASR is Automated System Recovery..."

 

Yes I too noticed that Windows XP Home and the ntbackup works ok for

data files, but not for system files too. So does ASR work let's say if

you remove the original HD slap a new one in (say it died). Thus you

have nothing, not even an OS and ASR will restore everything from your

previous backup?

 

--

Bill

Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)

[Guest John John (MVP)]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

BillW50 wrote:

> John John (MVP) wrote:

>

>> John John (MVP) wrote:

>>

>>> BillW50 wrote:

>>>

>>>> Okay I'll bite. What is ASR? And why when I backup my system

>>>> (Windows XP Home) to a new drive it won't work? Gosh forbid if my

>>>> hard drive actually fails and I learn this the hard way.

>>>

>>>

>>> ASR is Automatic System Restore, the only way that NTBackup can be

>>> used to completely backup and restore the operating system, XP Pro

>>> can do this but XP Home cannot. Otherwise the NTBackup utility can

>>> be used to backup data files and it works fine for that, but it isn't

>>> a cloning utility.

>>

>>

>> PS: That should have read "ASR is Automated System Recovery..."

>

>

> Yes I too noticed that Windows XP Home and the ntbackup works ok for

> data files, but not for system files too. So does ASR work let's say if

> you remove the original HD slap a new one in (say it died). Thus you

> have nothing, not even an OS and ASR will restore everything from your

> previous backup?

 

Yes, but it has limitations, you have to use a disk of equal or greater

size than the failed disk and you *must* have a floppy diskette to do

the restore, and as mentioned earlier, XP Home cannot do ASR. ASR only

backs up the System and Boot volumes, you should not rely on ASR for

your data backups.

 

How Backup Works

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc759141.aspx

 

ASR Cannot Restore System Disk to Replacement Disk of Identical Size

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314686

 

The floppy contains the Asr.sif and Asrpnp.sif files. The asr.sif file

contains information about the disk configuration and the restore itself

and the asrpnp.sif file contains information about the plug and play

devices in your computer.

 

John

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Backups on a new drive

 

BillW50 wrote:

> In news:uErEWK%23%23IHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl,

> Bill in Co. typed:

>> BillW50 wrote:

>>> Malke wrote on Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:08 -0700:

>>>> Sharkman@comcast.net wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> So I just installed a 500 gig external hard drive. If I copy my

>>>>> entire C drive onto it, can I actually restore all my apps and

>>>>> data onto a new C drive?

>>>>

>>>> No. You need to use an imaging program like Acronis True Image (my

>>>> preference), Ghost, or the like. True Image can do incremental

>>>> backups, too.

>>>

>>> Not so! All you need is a bootable OS on a CD/DVD or a stick. Like

>>> BartPE or something and just copy (or move) the files over. You may

>>> have to make the MBR though.

>>

>> Which may be a bit challenging. Why bother, when True Image does it

>> all?

>

> Are you sure? How does it deal with the drive letter problem when you

> clone

> a hard drive and swap the two hard drives around? Now the cloned OS is

> booting and sees the old OS is now over there and the cloned one over here

> and then Windows gets confused and keeps the original drive as C and the

> cloned one is being booted as what it was before. And when this happens,

> Windows hangs while it is booting.

 

OK, I probably shouldn't have said "does it all", as I haven't tried it

"all", but what I have done is backup and restore the system drive partition

(C:) using imaging.

> I haven't tried True Image, but my Asus EEE PC Recovery DVD uses Ghost.

> And

> my cheap no name external DVD burner from China sold on eBay doesn't like

> to

> read Ghost and others I assume images. As it gets a read/write error and

> fails and stops. But it has no problems reading and copying files at all

> and

> BartPE works perfectly with it.

>

> --

> Bill

> Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)

> MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB

> Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)

> Intel® 910GML (64MB shared)