Guest ralphs Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 When I wipe my disk with sdelete http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443.aspx XP SP3 deletes all but one restore point, apparently when the disk starts to fill up. How can I configure to keep the restore points?
Guest db.·.. > Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points well, if the disk is filling up then you won't be able to force the system to keep restore points. do a chkdsk and see the stats. -- db·´¯`·...¸><)))º> "ralphs" <ralph08260@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:uwmIxEJAJHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > When I wipe my disk with sdelete > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443.aspx > > XP SP3 deletes all but one restore point, apparently when the disk starts to fill up. > > How can I configure to keep the restore points? > >
Guest ralphs Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points " db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:ekh$HNJAJHA.3404@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > well, if the disk is > filling up then you > won't be able to force > the system to keep > restore points. > > do a chkdsk and > see the stats. It is supposed to fill up. The program overwrites all free areas on the disk. Upon seeing this Windows deletes all but the last restore point.
Guest db.·.. > Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points yes, it is supposed to get filled up. but if it gets too full, then you simply run out of room. you should be able to tell us how big is your disk and how much free space you have at this time. -- db·´¯`·...¸><)))º> "ralphs" <ralph08260@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:OSHlOqJAJHA.5660@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >" db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote in message >news:ekh$HNJAJHA.3404@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> well, if the disk is >> filling up then you >> won't be able to force >> the system to keep >> restore points. >> >> do a chkdsk and >> see the stats. > > It is supposed to fill up. The program overwrites all free areas on the disk. Upon seeing this Windows deletes all but the last > restore point. > >
Guest Lem Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points ralphs wrote: > When I wipe my disk with sdelete > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443.aspx > > XP SP3 deletes all but one restore point, apparently when the disk starts to > fill up. > > How can I configure to keep the restore points? > > I don't think you can, and further, if the designer of sdelete thought about this (and he probably did) he probably would have thought it was a desirable outcome. The point of sdelete is to securely remove traces of data from the disk. Some of that data may be preserved in the restore points, so if you really wanted to be secure about deleting things, you probably would first disable system restore (thus deleting all of the restore points) and then use sdelete. In any case, it's actually surprising that you even keep one restore point. Are you sure that this isn't a restore point that's newly-made after sdelete completes? This is how System Restore is supposed to work: <quote> System Restore requires a minimum of 200 MB of free disk space on the system drive at installation. When the amount of free disk space falls below 50 MB on ANY monitored drive, System Restore switches to standby mode and stops creating restore points. All restore points are deleted at that time. System Restore reactivates and resumes creating restore points as soon as 200 MB of disk space is free on the system drive. </quote) If you want to know more, I suggest you post in microsoft.public.security or one of the related newsgroups. -- Lem -- MS-MVP To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm
Guest ralphs Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points " db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:urx3KUKAJHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > yes, it is supposed > to get filled up. > > but if it gets too > full, then you simply > run out of room. > > you should be able > to tell us how big > is your disk and > how much free space > you have at this > time. Again, the program is supposed to overwrite all free space on the drive. That is its function. The restore points are not free space. Windows is deleting all but the latest restore points. I asked how to arrange that Windows not delete those restore points. Your replies have not said how to arrange do that. Do you know how to achieve this? If not, then why are you replying to my question?
Guest ralphs Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points "Lem" <lemp40@unknownhost> wrote in message news:OkkQpWKAJHA.3556@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > ralphs wrote: >> When I wipe my disk with sdelete >> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443.aspx >> >> XP SP3 deletes all but one restore point, apparently when the disk starts >> to fill up. >> >> How can I configure to keep the restore points? >> >> > I don't think you can, and further, if the designer of sdelete thought > about this (and he probably did) he probably would have thought it was a > desirable outcome. The point of sdelete is to securely remove traces of > data from the disk. Some of that data may be preserved in the restore > points, so if you really wanted to be secure about deleting things, you > probably would first disable system restore (thus deleting all of the > restore points) and then use sdelete. > > In any case, it's actually surprising that you even keep one restore > point. Are you sure that this isn't a restore point that's newly-made > after sdelete completes? > > This is how System Restore is supposed to work: > <quote> > System Restore requires a minimum of 200 MB of free disk space on the > system drive at installation. When the amount of free disk space falls > below 50 MB on ANY monitored drive, System Restore switches to standby > mode and stops creating restore points. All restore points are deleted at > that time. System Restore reactivates and resumes creating restore points > as soon as 200 MB of disk space is free on the system drive. > </quote) > > If you want to know more, I suggest you post in microsoft.public.security > or one of the related newsgroups. > -- > Lem -- MS-MVP > > To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer > http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm I will look at that newsgroup. Thank you.
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points Because he's an idiot troll, that's why. Your own original post is very difficult to understand, however. What does SDelete have to do with System Restore Point management? Is the issue that AFTER using SDelete on a drive, System Restore behaves in some manner that is different from before its use? Or is it just that SP3 handles things differently when the allotted disk space is filled and rather than deleting a Restore Point on the specified FIFO basis, it deletes all but the most recent Restore Point? Or are you asserting that using SDelete caused the change in behavior? Or am I completely misunderstanding? If so, please restate the issue in a more detailed manner. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com "ralphs" <ralph08260@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:OlOPTcKAJHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >" db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." > <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:urx3KUKAJHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> yes, it is supposed >> to get filled up. >> >> but if it gets too >> full, then you simply >> run out of room. >> >> you should be able >> to tell us how big >> is your disk and >> how much free space >> you have at this >> time. > > Again, the program is supposed to overwrite all free space on the drive. > That is its function. The restore points are not free space. Windows is > deleting all but the latest restore points. > > I asked how to arrange that Windows not delete those restore points. Your > replies have not said how to arrange do that. > > Do you know how to achieve this? > > If not, then why are you replying to my question? > >
Guest Ramesh Srinivasan, MS-MVP Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307875 -- Regards, Ramesh Srinivasan, Microsoft MVP [Windows Shell/User] The Winhelponline Blog http://www.winhelponline.com/blog "ralphs" <ralph08260@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:uwmIxEJAJHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > When I wipe my disk with sdelete > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443.aspx > > XP SP3 deletes all but one restore point, apparently when the disk starts > to fill up. > > How can I configure to keep the restore points? > >
Guest Ramesh Srinivasan, MS-MVP Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points Posted to wrong thread.. Sorry! -- Regards, Ramesh Srinivasan, Microsoft MVP [Windows Shell/User] The Winhelponline Blog http://www.winhelponline.com/blog "Ramesh Srinivasan, MS-MVP" <ramesh@unknownhost> wrote in message news:O7mUDDTAJHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307875 > > -- > Regards, > > Ramesh Srinivasan, Microsoft MVP [Windows Shell/User] > The Winhelponline Blog http://www.winhelponline.com/blog > > > "ralphs" <ralph08260@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:uwmIxEJAJHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> When I wipe my disk with sdelete >> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443.aspx >> >> XP SP3 deletes all but one restore point, apparently when the disk starts >> to fill up. >> >> How can I configure to keep the restore points? >> >> > >
Guest db.·.. > Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points well, until you can tell us how much free space you have, then you won't know either. -- db·´¯`·...¸><)))º> "ralphs" <ralph08260@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:OlOPTcKAJHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >" db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." > <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:urx3KUKAJHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> yes, it is supposed >> to get filled up. >> >> but if it gets too >> full, then you simply >> run out of room. >> >> you should be able >> to tell us how big >> is your disk and >> how much free space >> you have at this >> time. > > Again, the program is supposed to overwrite all free space on the drive. That is its function. The restore points are not free > space. Windows is deleting all but the latest restore points. > > I asked how to arrange that Windows not delete those restore points. Your replies have not said how to arrange do that. > > Do you know how to achieve this? > > If not, then why are you replying to my question? > >
Guest db.·.. > Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/en-us/management/sysrestore_faq.mspx -- db·´¯`·...¸><)))º> "ralphs" <ralph08260@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:OlOPTcKAJHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >" db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." > <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:urx3KUKAJHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> yes, it is supposed >> to get filled up. >> >> but if it gets too >> full, then you simply >> run out of room. >> >> you should be able >> to tell us how big >> is your disk and >> how much free space >> you have at this >> time. > > Again, the program is supposed to overwrite all free space on the drive. That is its function. The restore points are not free > space. Windows is deleting all but the latest restore points. > > I asked how to arrange that Windows not delete those restore points. Your replies have not said how to arrange do that. > > Do you know how to achieve this? > > If not, then why are you replying to my question? > >
Guest ralphs Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points " db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:eeQ6zxWAJHA.5884@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/en-us/management/sysrestore_faq.mspx > Thanks. I see from the info at the SDK link that the documented entries do not provide a method by which I can achieve what I want. I'll have to accept how it works for the time being. Hopefully I will be able to dig into it and figure out a way.
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points I'd still appreciate an answer, for my own edification. Are you saying that when your system restore quota is reached, XP SP3 deletes ALL but the most recent restore points? -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com "ralphs" <ralph08260@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e9VkIaaAJHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >" db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." > <databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:eeQ6zxWAJHA.5884@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/en-us/management/sysrestore_faq.mspx >> > > Thanks. I see from the info at the SDK link that the documented entries do > not provide a method by which I can achieve what I want. I'll have to > accept how it works for the time being. Hopefully I will be able to dig > into it and figure out a way. > >
Guest ralphs Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message news:O9at%239bAJHA.3804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > I'd still appreciate an answer, for my own edification. Are you saying > that when your system restore quota is reached, XP SP3 deletes ALL but the > most recent restore points? Sdelete is a SysInternals (and now Microsoft) utility which overwrites all free space on the drive and then deletes all that it has written. I use XP SP3. There typically are three or four restore points on the disk. There typically is slightly more than 32 gig (decimal) free bytes on the disk. After running sdelete program there is only one restore point on the disk. Sdelete came with source code and there is nothing in it which deliberately deletes a restore point. Both the version provided and one built from the source code has the same behavior. Therefore the deletion of restore points is an action of the operating system.
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points "ralphs" <ralph08260@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:uLa2eXmAJHA.1940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message > news:O9at%239bAJHA.3804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> I'd still appreciate an answer, for my own edification. Are you saying >> that when your system restore quota is reached, XP SP3 deletes ALL but >> the most recent restore points? > > Sdelete is a SysInternals (and now Microsoft) utility which overwrites all > free space on the drive and then deletes all that it has written. Yes, I know, and Windows XP and Vista are conspicuously missing from the list of supported operating systems here: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443.aspx > I use XP SP3. Understood.Mine typically has dozens, but I have a 30 GB OS/Applications partition which allows me approx 3.5 GB for the System Information Folder (where Restore Points are stored.) And I haven't really been watching it closely since installing SP3. > There typically are three or four restore points on the disk. > There typically is slightly more than 32 gig (decimal) free bytes on the > disk. > > After running sdelete program there is only one restore point on the disk. But do you know how many there were before running SDelete? Perhaps running SDelete is totally irrelevant to the issue. Or, perhaps SDelete, as is intimated by the page cited, does not play well with certain unknown functions at the disk level, which result in XP deciding that the previous RPs are no longer valid and therefore should be deleted. > Sdelete came with source code and there is nothing in it which > deliberately deletes a restore point. Both the version provided and one > built from the source code has the same behavior. > > Therefore the deletion of restore points is an action of the operating > system. I'd be more prone to say that the reason XP and Vista are deliberately left out of the list of supported OSes is that things like this happen when you use it. Then again, I notice that my XP SP3 only has RPs going back a couple of weeks, which means it must have deleted a bunch of RPs around that time because the current size of the folder is less than half its quota. So I will watch carefully, maybe speed things up by setting extra Restore Points, and see what happens when the folder reaches its quota. I don't *recall* doing anything around that time to clear RPs, but you never know with me. I'll post my findings here. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com
Guest Lem Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points Gary S. Terhune wrote: Then again, I notice that my XP SP3 only has RPs going back a couple > of weeks, which means it must have deleted a bunch of RPs around that time > because the current size of the folder is less than half its quota. So I > will watch carefully, maybe speed things up by setting extra Restore Points, > and see what happens when the folder reaches its quota. I don't *recall* > doing anything around that time to clear RPs, but you never know with me. > > I'll post my findings here. > Gary, Just another data point ... When I installed SP3, the installer threw the following cryptic event: <event text> The System Restore service has been suspended because there is not enough disk space available on the drive \\?\Volume{c2cc3040-6d28-11d7-8cf4-806d6172696f}\. System Restore will automatically resume service once at least 200 MB of free disk space is available on the system drive. </event text> At the time, all of the partitions in the system had at least 25 GB of free space, so unless the installer was creating some sort of temporary partition, I don't know what used up the space. Naturally, when SR "suspended", all of the existing Restore Points were deleted. I tried the free SP3 support from MS, but was never able to get to the bottom of it. It didn't seem worth escalating any further. -- Lem -- MS-MVP To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Deleted System Restore Points I only just happened to notice your other post here and it makes a lot of sense, and may be why SDelete is not listed as supported on SR-capable OSes. Reminds me of the first time I used my Clean Boot for Windows 98 on Windows ME. I found out that if you don't launch whatever it is that maintains SR, all RPs are lost. Or something much like that, anyway. Long time ago for remembering details. But from that point on, I considered that one item in MSCONFIG as untouchable except in extremis. As for SP3, I don't recall getting that message, but I probably would have not considered it important, anyway. I'd just made a full image of the OS partition. But, like I said, that was months ago, and now I'm mostly just wondering what it was that cleared them out a couple of weeks ago. But I've been doing too many things and it's impossible to pin down. I could easily have performed some task that I knew would delete all RPs and not remember it at all. So I'll just stick with my current little experiment and pay a lot more attention to the SR system (both the GUI and the folder(s) themselves, to see what XP SP3 does when it bumps into the disk quota. To FIFO or not to FIFO, that's the question. Also to pay much more attention on a daily basis to what's happening with SR, to see if anything is amiss. Back to the below, perhaps SDelete does a similar thing. Perhaps they temporarily "claim" all free disk space in some virtual manner as part of their preparation. That would explain both your SP3 data and this SDelete dilemma. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://grystmill.com "Lem" <lemp40@unknownhost> wrote in message news:%23RjKZgnAJHA.4816@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Gary S. Terhune wrote: > Then again, I notice that my XP SP3 only has RPs going back a couple >> of weeks, which means it must have deleted a bunch of RPs around that >> time because the current size of the folder is less than half its quota. >> So I will watch carefully, maybe speed things up by setting extra Restore >> Points, and see what happens when the folder reaches its quota. I don't >> *recall* doing anything around that time to clear RPs, but you never know >> with me. >> >> I'll post my findings here. >> > > Gary, > > Just another data point ... > > When I installed SP3, the installer threw the following cryptic event: > > <event text> > The System Restore service has been suspended because there is not enough > disk space available on the drive > \\?\Volume{c2cc3040-6d28-11d7-8cf4-806d6172696f}\. System Restore will > automatically resume service once at least 200 MB of free disk space is > available on the system drive. > </event text> > > At the time, all of the partitions in the system had at least 25 GB of > free space, so unless the installer was creating some sort of temporary > partition, I don't know what used up the space. Naturally, when SR > "suspended", all of the existing Restore Points were deleted. > > I tried the free SP3 support from MS, but was never able to get to the > bottom of it. It didn't seem worth escalating any further. > -- > Lem -- MS-MVP > > To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer > http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm
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