Can Mail be used with Winxp?

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

My last response.

It is a problem with how OE was developed. It has existed with all versions

of Windows and not related to XP. At least with XP/SP2, a copy of dbx files

is backed up when you compact. OE MVPs fought for that for almost a decade.

That said, any third party program is responsible to make their product

compatible with whatever MS develops. If Norton says their AV works with XP

and IE/OE, then it should work.

I don't know if the chicken came before the egg, but Windows programs come

before third party programs that /claim/ they are compatible.

Again. I am /not/ an advocate for MS. Spend some time in the two major OE

newsgroups. In the time I have been here, lost messages and or entire

folders is the most reported problem. Needless to say, if people backed up

OE, like they should any e-mail client, they could easily fix any screw up.

This is a post from today in the OE General newsgroup.

<QP>

I opened OE this morning and all my created folders under local folders are

gone. The only ones remaining are the defaulted folders of OE. Where did

they

go, and can I restore them? I had lots of emails saved in them that I would

like back. Thanks..

</QP>

It is a rare day that we don't see at least one post like this. Before

people started going to Vista and WinMail, or Windows Live Mail, it was

common to see much more than one such post every day.

--

Bruce Hagen

MS-MVP Outlook Express

Imperial Beach, CA

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

news:4O_tk.23261$N87.22253@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

> Any disruption can wipe out folders BUT, is that an OE program problem or

> the compacting program?

> Is all the problems caused by NORTON an XP problem?????

> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

> news:uKN9cdgCJHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Yes. But it is because of the fragile dbx file system. AFAIK, e-mail

>> scanning does not pose such a threat in other e-mail clients. (Not that

>> you need e-mail scanning at all).

>>

>> As far as compacting, as Alias mentioned, any disruption of the process

>> can wipe out entire folders. That is why we recommend working offline

>> when compacting.

>>

>> I'm not picking on the big guy, just pointing out the facts. Like I said.

>> I'm still using OE and have no plans to go elsewhere in the foreseeable

>> future.

>> --

>>

>> Bruce Hagen

>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>

>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>> news:giXtk.18206$LG4.2178@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>> It is not OE as the article states. It (corruption) is caused by

>>> NON_MICROSOFT virus scanning programs.

>>> Amazing how MS always gets blamed for others poor programming. Pick on

>>> the BIG GUY syndrome.

>>>> It is a known issue for over a decade now.

>>>>

>>>> Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption.

>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx#EOAAC

>>>>

>>>> And:

>>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>

>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>> news:uoCtk.19437$jI5.3195@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>> Never had a problem with it. Why do you say dbx file structure is

>>>>> frail?

>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>> news:eQqnKgTCJHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:OtBtk.19432$jI5.5277@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>> Worse than OE?????? What's wrong with OE?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Specifically, the fragile dbx file structure is the most important

>>>>>> thing wrong with OE. They fixed that in WinMail, but screwed up a

>>>>>> dozen other things that /did/ work fine. Don't get me wrong. I like

>>>>>> OE. But it needs a lot of TLC thay many people don't do because it

>>>>>> isn't in Help.

>>>>>> --

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

I thought about it a long time ago, watched several colleagues spend months,

IIRC, doing painstaking tests, I may even have participated in them myself,

can't recall. And yes, I can say that pulling the cord from the wall while

an OE folder is being compacted is a valid test of DBX fragility versus

other mail storage systems. Versus just about any other file type, for that

matter. Those same fellas still hang out in the groups, so if you want to

know *why* this is so, or *what* makes DBX files much more fragile under the

stated conditions, the OE groups are the place for you to ask. I recommend

you ask nicely. Or you can even claim that what we're telling you is BS and

somebody "here" (in the OE groups, remember) oughta go over "there" (here)

and tell them what's what!

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

news:GH_tk.23259$N87.22491@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

> Well stop and think. Is that a valid test to determine the fragility of

> OE's .dbx files?

> Are YOU really that stupid?.

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> news:uE0Gv7hCJHA.5808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> You really are stupid, aren't you?

>>

>> --

>> Gary S. Terhune

>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>> http://grystmill.com

>>

>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>> news:L8Xtk.18204$LG4.1681@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>> That is shear stupidity. Run anything and yank the cord out of the wall.

>>> Why specifically OE compacting?

>>> "Alias" <iamalias@gmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message

>>> news:g96s7o$doj$1@aioe.org...

>>>> Unknown wrote:

>>>>> Never had a problem with it. Why do you say dbx file structure is

>>>>> frail?

>>>>

>>>> Want to find out the hard way? Open OE. Start compacting your messages.

>>>> Pull the plug to your computer out of the wall while it's in the middle

>>>> of compacting. Back up your .dbx files first ;-)

>>>>

>>>> Alias

>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>> news:eQqnKgTCJHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:OtBtk.19432$jI5.5277@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>> Worse than OE?????? What's wrong with OE?

>>>>>> Specifically, the fragile dbx file structure is the most important

>>>>>> thing wrong with OE. They fixed that in WinMail, but screwed up a

>>>>>> dozen other things that /did/ work fine. Don't get me wrong. I like

>>>>>> OE. But it needs a lot of TLC thay many people don't do because it

>>>>>> isn't in Help.

>>>>>> --

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

Don't bother asking "why" or "how" (which will cause an OE MVP's eyes to

glaze over), just do some searching of Google Groups. You'll find (tens of)

thousands of archived posts that contain variations on "Don't touch your

computer until the compacting process has ended!" or "Do not cancel

Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt to close OE via

Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting is taking

place."

<QP>

[The compacting] process can take several minutes and you should not attempt

to use your computer until it is finished.

</QP>

Source: http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact

[http://www.insideoe.com is he OE user's Bible]

OE's been an odd, bug-ridden app ever since it was released over a decade

ago, and all further development was stopped in June 2006. We suspect that

the guy who wrote OE has been permanently confined in a lunatic asylum and

wearing a straightjacket for years.

--

~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002

AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net

DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> I thought about it a long time ago, watched several colleagues spend

> months,

> IIRC, doing painstaking tests, I may even have participated in them

> myself,

> can't recall. And yes, I can say that pulling the cord from the wall while

> an OE folder is being compacted is a valid test of DBX fragility versus

> other mail storage systems. Versus just about any other file type, for

> that

> matter. Those same fellas still hang out in the groups, so if you want to

> know *why* this is so, or *what* makes DBX files much more fragile under

> the

> stated conditions, the OE groups are the place for you to ask. I recommend

> you ask nicely. Or you can even claim that what we're telling you is BS

> and

> somebody "here" (in the OE groups, remember) oughta go over "there" (here)

> and tell them what's what!

<snip>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

Don't bother asking "why" or "how" (which will cause an OE MVP's eyes to

glaze over), just do some searching of Google Groups. You'll find (tens of)

thousands of archived posts that contain variations on "Don't touch your

computer until the compacting process has ended!" or "Do not cancel

Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt to close OE via

Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting is taking

place."

<QP>

[The compacting] process can take several minutes and you should not attempt

to use your computer until it is finished.

</QP>

Source: http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact

[http://www.insideoe.com is he OE user's Bible]

OE's been an odd, bug-ridden app ever since it was released over a decade

ago, and all further development was stopped in June 2006. We suspect that

the guy who wrote OE has been permanently confined in a lunatic asylum and

wearing a straightjacket for years. [1]

=================

[1] Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/msg/c3d34a61101e99e9

--

~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002

AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net

DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> I thought about it a long time ago, watched several colleagues spend

> months,

> IIRC, doing painstaking tests, I may even have participated in them

> myself,

> can't recall. And yes, I can say that pulling the cord from the wall while

> an OE folder is being compacted is a valid test of DBX fragility versus

> other mail storage systems. Versus just about any other file type, for

> that

> matter. Those same fellas still hang out in the groups, so if you want to

> know *why* this is so, or *what* makes DBX files much more fragile under

> the

> stated conditions, the OE groups are the place for you to ask. I recommend

> you ask nicely. Or you can even claim that what we're telling you is BS

> and

> somebody "here" (in the OE groups, remember) oughta go over "there" (here)

> and tell them what's what!

<snip>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

Heh, heh... watching an OE MVP's eyes glaze over... heh, heh...

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://grystmill.com

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:ezX1LDlCJHA.3396@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> Don't bother asking "why" or "how" (which will cause an OE MVP's eyes to

> glaze over), just do some searching of Google Groups. You'll find (tens

> of) thousands of archived posts that contain variations on "Don't touch

> your computer until the compacting process has ended!" or "Do not cancel

> Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt to close OE via

> Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting is taking

> place."

>

> <QP>

> [The compacting] process can take several minutes and you should not

> attempt to use your computer until it is finished.

> </QP>

> Source: http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact

>

> [http://www.insideoe.com is he OE user's Bible]

>

> OE's been an odd, bug-ridden app ever since it was released over a decade

> ago, and all further development was stopped in June 2006. We suspect

> that

> the guy who wrote OE has been permanently confined in a lunatic asylum and

> wearing a straightjacket for years.

> --

> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002

> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net

> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

>

> Gary S. Terhune wrote:

>> I thought about it a long time ago, watched several colleagues spend

>> months,

>> IIRC, doing painstaking tests, I may even have participated in them

>> myself,

>> can't recall. And yes, I can say that pulling the cord from the wall

>> while

>> an OE folder is being compacted is a valid test of DBX fragility versus

>> other mail storage systems. Versus just about any other file type, for

>> that

>> matter. Those same fellas still hang out in the groups, so if you want to

>> know *why* this is so, or *what* makes DBX files much more fragile under

>> the

>> stated conditions, the OE groups are the place for you to ask. I

>> recommend

>> you ask nicely. Or you can even claim that what we're telling you is BS

>> and

>> somebody "here" (in the OE groups, remember) oughta go over "there"

>> (here)

>> and tell them what's what!

> <snip>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

I agree totally. However, is it OE or some other program causing the

problem? I'll bet it is not OE.

Also, if YOU were the architect of OE how would you protect the .dbx files

from

being damaged from ANY source? That's my point.

"Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

news:e2EgzojCJHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> My last response.

>

> It is a problem with how OE was developed. It has existed with all

> versions of Windows and not related to XP. At least with XP/SP2, a copy of

> dbx files is backed up when you compact. OE MVPs fought for that for

> almost a decade. That said, any third party program is responsible to make

> their product compatible with whatever MS develops. If Norton says their

> AV works with XP and IE/OE, then it should work.

>

> I don't know if the chicken came before the egg, but Windows programs come

> before third party programs that /claim/ they are compatible.

>

> Again. I am /not/ an advocate for MS. Spend some time in the two major OE

> newsgroups. In the time I have been here, lost messages and or entire

> folders is the most reported problem. Needless to say, if people backed up

> OE, like they should any e-mail client, they could easily fix any screw

> up.

>

> This is a post from today in the OE General newsgroup.

>

> <QP>

> I opened OE this morning and all my created folders under local folders

> are

> gone. The only ones remaining are the defaulted folders of OE. Where did

> they

> go, and can I restore them? I had lots of emails saved in them that I

> would

> like back. Thanks..

> </QP>

>

> It is a rare day that we don't see at least one post like this. Before

> people started going to Vista and WinMail, or Windows Live Mail, it was

> common to see much more than one such post every day.

> --

>

> Bruce Hagen

> MS-MVP Outlook Express

> Imperial Beach, CA

>

> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

> news:4O_tk.23261$N87.22253@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

>> Any disruption can wipe out folders BUT, is that an OE program problem or

>> the compacting program?

>> Is all the problems caused by NORTON an XP problem?????

>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>> news:uKN9cdgCJHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>> Yes. But it is because of the fragile dbx file system. AFAIK, e-mail

>>> scanning does not pose such a threat in other e-mail clients. (Not that

>>> you need e-mail scanning at all).

>>>

>>> As far as compacting, as Alias mentioned, any disruption of the process

>>> can wipe out entire folders. That is why we recommend working offline

>>> when compacting.

>>>

>>> I'm not picking on the big guy, just pointing out the facts. Like I

>>> said. I'm still using OE and have no plans to go elsewhere in the

>>> foreseeable future.

>>> --

>>>

>>> Bruce Hagen

>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>

>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>> news:giXtk.18206$LG4.2178@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>> It is not OE as the article states. It (corruption) is caused by

>>>> NON_MICROSOFT virus scanning programs.

>>>> Amazing how MS always gets blamed for others poor programming. Pick on

>>>> the BIG GUY syndrome.

>>>>> It is a known issue for over a decade now.

>>>>>

>>>>> Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption.

>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx#EOAAC

>>>>>

>>>>> And:

>>>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

>>>>> --

>>>>>

>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>

>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>> news:uoCtk.19437$jI5.3195@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>> Never had a problem with it. Why do you say dbx file structure is

>>>>>> frail?

>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:eQqnKgTCJHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:OtBtk.19432$jI5.5277@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>> Worse than OE?????? What's wrong with OE?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Specifically, the fragile dbx file structure is the most important

>>>>>>> thing wrong with OE. They fixed that in WinMail, but screwed up a

>>>>>>> dozen other things that /did/ work fine. Don't get me wrong. I like

>>>>>>> OE. But it needs a lot of TLC thay many people don't do because it

>>>>>>> isn't in Help.

>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

It is usually the user, (i.e. disrupting a compact process), or a third

party program that causes the problem. But if it were not for the way the

dbx file system stores message data, there wouldn't be any loss of messages

and this would be a moot topic.

Windows Mail in Vista does not use this dbx system. Instead, every message

is stored as a separate .eml file and loss of messages is a rarity.

Of course, as I stated previously, WinMail turned out to be a flop for other

reasons and production of that program stopped in 2006, while Vista was

still in beta.

The recommendation from Microsoft, (not me), is for XP and Vista users to

use Windows Live Mail instead. That is virtually their *fix* for OE and

WinMail issues.

--

Bruce Hagen

MS-MVP Outlook Express

Imperial Beach, CA

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

news:rVeuk.19567$jI5.16969@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>I agree totally. However, is it OE or some other program causing the

>problem? I'll bet it is not OE.

> Also, if YOU were the architect of OE how would you protect the .dbx files

> from

> being damaged from ANY source? That's my point.

>

> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

> news:e2EgzojCJHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> My last response.

>>

>> It is a problem with how OE was developed. It has existed with all

>> versions of Windows and not related to XP. At least with XP/SP2, a copy

>> of dbx files is backed up when you compact. OE MVPs fought for that for

>> almost a decade. That said, any third party program is responsible to

>> make their product compatible with whatever MS develops. If Norton says

>> their AV works with XP and IE/OE, then it should work.

>>

>> I don't know if the chicken came before the egg, but Windows programs

>> come before third party programs that /claim/ they are compatible.

>>

>> Again. I am /not/ an advocate for MS. Spend some time in the two major OE

>> newsgroups. In the time I have been here, lost messages and or entire

>> folders is the most reported problem. Needless to say, if people backed

>> up OE, like they should any e-mail client, they could easily fix any

>> screw up.

>>

>> This is a post from today in the OE General newsgroup.

>>

>> <QP>

>> I opened OE this morning and all my created folders under local folders

>> are

>> gone. The only ones remaining are the defaulted folders of OE. Where did

>> they

>> go, and can I restore them? I had lots of emails saved in them that I

>> would

>> like back. Thanks..

>> </QP>

>>

>> It is a rare day that we don't see at least one post like this. Before

>> people started going to Vista and WinMail, or Windows Live Mail, it was

>> common to see much more than one such post every day.

>> --

>>

>> Bruce Hagen

>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>

>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>> news:4O_tk.23261$N87.22253@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>> Any disruption can wipe out folders BUT, is that an OE program problem

>>> or the compacting program?

>>> Is all the problems caused by NORTON an XP problem?????

>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>> news:uKN9cdgCJHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>> Yes. But it is because of the fragile dbx file system. AFAIK, e-mail

>>>> scanning does not pose such a threat in other e-mail clients. (Not that

>>>> you need e-mail scanning at all).

>>>>

>>>> As far as compacting, as Alias mentioned, any disruption of the process

>>>> can wipe out entire folders. That is why we recommend working offline

>>>> when compacting.

>>>>

>>>> I'm not picking on the big guy, just pointing out the facts. Like I

>>>> said. I'm still using OE and have no plans to go elsewhere in the

>>>> foreseeable future.

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>

>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>> news:giXtk.18206$LG4.2178@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>> It is not OE as the article states. It (corruption) is caused by

>>>>> NON_MICROSOFT virus scanning programs.

>>>>> Amazing how MS always gets blamed for others poor programming. Pick on

>>>>> the BIG GUY syndrome.

>>>>>> It is a known issue for over a decade now.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption.

>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx#EOAAC

>>>>>>

>>>>>> And:

>>>>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

>>>>>> --

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:uoCtk.19437$jI5.3195@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>> Never had a problem with it. Why do you say dbx file structure is

>>>>>>> frail?

>>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:eQqnKgTCJHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:OtBtk.19432$jI5.5277@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>> Worse than OE?????? What's wrong with OE?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Specifically, the fragile dbx file structure is the most important

>>>>>>>> thing wrong with OE. They fixed that in WinMail, but screwed up a

>>>>>>>> dozen other things that /did/ work fine. Don't get me wrong. I like

>>>>>>>> OE. But it needs a lot of TLC thay many people don't do because it

>>>>>>>> isn't in Help.

>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

Hi Bruce,

So is there any "native default" (for want of a better term) e-mail program

that ships with Vista?

Alan

"Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

news:Os1fXUsCJHA.2480@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> It is usually the user, (i.e. disrupting a compact process), or a third

> party program that causes the problem. But if it were not for the way the

> dbx file system stores message data, there wouldn't be any loss of

> messages and this would be a moot topic.

>

> Windows Mail in Vista does not use this dbx system. Instead, every message

> is stored as a separate .eml file and loss of messages is a rarity.

>

> Of course, as I stated previously, WinMail turned out to be a flop for

> other reasons and production of that program stopped in 2006, while Vista

> was still in beta.

>

> The recommendation from Microsoft, (not me), is for XP and Vista users to

> use Windows Live Mail instead. That is virtually their *fix* for OE and

> WinMail issues.

> --

>

> Bruce Hagen

> MS-MVP Outlook Express

> Imperial Beach, CA

>

> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

> news:rVeuk.19567$jI5.16969@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>I agree totally. However, is it OE or some other program causing the

>>problem? I'll bet it is not OE.

>> Also, if YOU were the architect of OE how would you protect the .dbx

>> files from

>> being damaged from ANY source? That's my point.

>>

>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>> news:e2EgzojCJHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>> My last response.

>>>

>>> It is a problem with how OE was developed. It has existed with all

>>> versions of Windows and not related to XP. At least with XP/SP2, a copy

>>> of dbx files is backed up when you compact. OE MVPs fought for that for

>>> almost a decade. That said, any third party program is responsible to

>>> make their product compatible with whatever MS develops. If Norton says

>>> their AV works with XP and IE/OE, then it should work.

>>>

>>> I don't know if the chicken came before the egg, but Windows programs

>>> come before third party programs that /claim/ they are compatible.

>>>

>>> Again. I am /not/ an advocate for MS. Spend some time in the two major

>>> OE newsgroups. In the time I have been here, lost messages and or entire

>>> folders is the most reported problem. Needless to say, if people backed

>>> up OE, like they should any e-mail client, they could easily fix any

>>> screw up.

>>>

>>> This is a post from today in the OE General newsgroup.

>>>

>>> <QP>

>>> I opened OE this morning and all my created folders under local folders

>>> are

>>> gone. The only ones remaining are the defaulted folders of OE. Where did

>>> they

>>> go, and can I restore them? I had lots of emails saved in them that I

>>> would

>>> like back. Thanks..

>>> </QP>

>>>

>>> It is a rare day that we don't see at least one post like this. Before

>>> people started going to Vista and WinMail, or Windows Live Mail, it was

>>> common to see much more than one such post every day.

>>> --

>>>

>>> Bruce Hagen

>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>

>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>> news:4O_tk.23261$N87.22253@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>> Any disruption can wipe out folders BUT, is that an OE program problem

>>>> or the compacting program?

>>>> Is all the problems caused by NORTON an XP problem?????

>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>> news:uKN9cdgCJHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>>> Yes. But it is because of the fragile dbx file system. AFAIK, e-mail

>>>>> scanning does not pose such a threat in other e-mail clients. (Not

>>>>> that you need e-mail scanning at all).

>>>>>

>>>>> As far as compacting, as Alias mentioned, any disruption of the

>>>>> process can wipe out entire folders. That is why we recommend working

>>>>> offline when compacting.

>>>>>

>>>>> I'm not picking on the big guy, just pointing out the facts. Like I

>>>>> said. I'm still using OE and have no plans to go elsewhere in the

>>>>> foreseeable future.

>>>>> --

>>>>>

>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>

>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>> news:giXtk.18206$LG4.2178@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>> It is not OE as the article states. It (corruption) is caused by

>>>>>> NON_MICROSOFT virus scanning programs.

>>>>>> Amazing how MS always gets blamed for others poor programming. Pick

>>>>>> on the BIG GUY syndrome.

>>>>>>> It is a known issue for over a decade now.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption.

>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx#EOAAC

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> And:

>>>>>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:uoCtk.19437$jI5.3195@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>> Never had a problem with it. Why do you say dbx file structure is

>>>>>>>> frail?

>>>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:eQqnKgTCJHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>> news:OtBtk.19432$jI5.5277@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>> Worse than OE?????? What's wrong with OE?

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Specifically, the fragile dbx file structure is the most important

>>>>>>>>> thing wrong with OE. They fixed that in WinMail, but screwed up a

>>>>>>>>> dozen other things that /did/ work fine. Don't get me wrong. I

>>>>>>>>> like OE. But it needs a lot of TLC thay many people don't do

>>>>>>>>> because it isn't in Help.

>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

Windows Mail comes with Vista. Is that what you're asking?

--

Bruce Hagen

MS-MVP Outlook Express

Imperial Beach, CA

"Alan" <somewhere@nospam.not> wrote in message

news:OfVwr7sCJHA.4884@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Hi Bruce,

>

> So is there any "native default" (for want of a better term) e-mail

> program that ships with Vista?

>

> Alan

>

> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

> news:Os1fXUsCJHA.2480@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> It is usually the user, (i.e. disrupting a compact process), or a third

>> party program that causes the problem. But if it were not for the way the

>> dbx file system stores message data, there wouldn't be any loss of

>> messages and this would be a moot topic.

>>

>> Windows Mail in Vista does not use this dbx system. Instead, every

>> message is stored as a separate .eml file and loss of messages is a

>> rarity.

>>

>> Of course, as I stated previously, WinMail turned out to be a flop for

>> other reasons and production of that program stopped in 2006, while Vista

>> was still in beta.

>>

>> The recommendation from Microsoft, (not me), is for XP and Vista users to

>> use Windows Live Mail instead. That is virtually their *fix* for OE and

>> WinMail issues.

>> --

>>

>> Bruce Hagen

>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>

>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>> news:rVeuk.19567$jI5.16969@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>I agree totally. However, is it OE or some other program causing the

>>>problem? I'll bet it is not OE.

>>> Also, if YOU were the architect of OE how would you protect the .dbx

>>> files from

>>> being damaged from ANY source? That's my point.

>>>

>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>> news:e2EgzojCJHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>> My last response.

>>>>

>>>> It is a problem with how OE was developed. It has existed with all

>>>> versions of Windows and not related to XP. At least with XP/SP2, a copy

>>>> of dbx files is backed up when you compact. OE MVPs fought for that for

>>>> almost a decade. That said, any third party program is responsible to

>>>> make their product compatible with whatever MS develops. If Norton says

>>>> their AV works with XP and IE/OE, then it should work.

>>>>

>>>> I don't know if the chicken came before the egg, but Windows programs

>>>> come before third party programs that /claim/ they are compatible.

>>>>

>>>> Again. I am /not/ an advocate for MS. Spend some time in the two major

>>>> OE newsgroups. In the time I have been here, lost messages and or

>>>> entire folders is the most reported problem. Needless to say, if people

>>>> backed up OE, like they should any e-mail client, they could easily fix

>>>> any screw up.

>>>>

>>>> This is a post from today in the OE General newsgroup.

>>>>

>>>> <QP>

>>>> I opened OE this morning and all my created folders under local folders

>>>> are

>>>> gone. The only ones remaining are the defaulted folders of OE. Where

>>>> did they

>>>> go, and can I restore them? I had lots of emails saved in them that I

>>>> would

>>>> like back. Thanks..

>>>> </QP>

>>>>

>>>> It is a rare day that we don't see at least one post like this. Before

>>>> people started going to Vista and WinMail, or Windows Live Mail, it was

>>>> common to see much more than one such post every day.

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>

>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>> news:4O_tk.23261$N87.22253@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>> Any disruption can wipe out folders BUT, is that an OE program problem

>>>>> or the compacting program?

>>>>> Is all the problems caused by NORTON an XP problem?????

>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>> news:uKN9cdgCJHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> Yes. But it is because of the fragile dbx file system. AFAIK, e-mail

>>>>>> scanning does not pose such a threat in other e-mail clients. (Not

>>>>>> that you need e-mail scanning at all).

>>>>>>

>>>>>> As far as compacting, as Alias mentioned, any disruption of the

>>>>>> process can wipe out entire folders. That is why we recommend working

>>>>>> offline when compacting.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I'm not picking on the big guy, just pointing out the facts. Like I

>>>>>> said. I'm still using OE and have no plans to go elsewhere in the

>>>>>> foreseeable future.

>>>>>> --

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:giXtk.18206$LG4.2178@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>> It is not OE as the article states. It (corruption) is caused by

>>>>>>> NON_MICROSOFT virus scanning programs.

>>>>>>> Amazing how MS always gets blamed for others poor programming. Pick

>>>>>>> on the BIG GUY syndrome.

>>>>>>>> It is a known issue for over a decade now.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption.

>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx#EOAAC

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> And:

>>>>>>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:uoCtk.19437$jI5.3195@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>> Never had a problem with it. Why do you say dbx file structure is

>>>>>>>>> frail?

>>>>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>> news:eQqnKgTCJHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>> news:OtBtk.19432$jI5.5277@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>>> Worse than OE?????? What's wrong with OE?

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, the fragile dbx file structure is the most

>>>>>>>>>> important thing wrong with OE. They fixed that in WinMail, but

>>>>>>>>>> screwed up a dozen other things that /did/ work fine. Don't get

>>>>>>>>>> me wrong. I like OE. But it needs a lot of TLC thay many people

>>>>>>>>>> don't do because it isn't in Help.

>>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

I'm a bit confused, then, when you say that Windows Mail comes with Vista.

In your earlier post you said:

"Windows Mail in Vista does not use this dbx system. Instead, every

message is stored as a separate .eml file and loss of messages is a

rarity.

Of course, as I stated previously, WinMail turned out to be a flop for

other reasons and production of that program stopped in 2006, while

Vista

was still in beta."

If production of WinMail stopped in 2006, then how can WinMail still come

with Vista? I'm obviously missing something.

Of course it doesn't help to lessen confusion that Microsoft persists in

giving similar names to different applications such as Windows Explorer,

Internet Explorer, Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows Mail, Windows Live

Mail.... :->

Alan

"Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

news:OrDew%23sCJHA.3352@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Windows Mail comes with Vista. Is that what you're asking?

> --

>

> Bruce Hagen

> MS-MVP Outlook Express

> Imperial Beach, CA

>

> "Alan" <somewhere@nospam.not> wrote in message

> news:OfVwr7sCJHA.4884@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> Hi Bruce,

>>

>> So is there any "native default" (for want of a better term) e-mail

>> program that ships with Vista?

>>

>> Alan

>>

>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>> news:Os1fXUsCJHA.2480@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>> It is usually the user, (i.e. disrupting a compact process), or a third

>>> party program that causes the problem. But if it were not for the way

>>> the dbx file system stores message data, there wouldn't be any loss of

>>> messages and this would be a moot topic.

>>>

>>> Windows Mail in Vista does not use this dbx system. Instead, every

>>> message is stored as a separate .eml file and loss of messages is a

>>> rarity.

>>>

>>> Of course, as I stated previously, WinMail turned out to be a flop for

>>> other reasons and production of that program stopped in 2006, while

>>> Vista was still in beta.

>>>

>>> The recommendation from Microsoft, (not me), is for XP and Vista users

>>> to use Windows Live Mail instead. That is virtually their *fix* for OE

>>> and WinMail issues.

>>> --

>>>

>>> Bruce Hagen

>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>

>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>> news:rVeuk.19567$jI5.16969@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>I agree totally. However, is it OE or some other program causing the

>>>>problem? I'll bet it is not OE.

>>>> Also, if YOU were the architect of OE how would you protect the .dbx

>>>> files from

>>>> being damaged from ANY source? That's my point.

>>>>

>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>> news:e2EgzojCJHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>> My last response.

>>>>>

>>>>> It is a problem with how OE was developed. It has existed with all

>>>>> versions of Windows and not related to XP. At least with XP/SP2, a

>>>>> copy of dbx files is backed up when you compact. OE MVPs fought for

>>>>> that for almost a decade. That said, any third party program is

>>>>> responsible to make their product compatible with whatever MS

>>>>> develops. If Norton says their AV works with XP and IE/OE, then it

>>>>> should work.

>>>>>

>>>>> I don't know if the chicken came before the egg, but Windows programs

>>>>> come before third party programs that /claim/ they are compatible.

>>>>>

>>>>> Again. I am /not/ an advocate for MS. Spend some time in the two major

>>>>> OE newsgroups. In the time I have been here, lost messages and or

>>>>> entire folders is the most reported problem. Needless to say, if

>>>>> people backed up OE, like they should any e-mail client, they could

>>>>> easily fix any screw up.

>>>>>

>>>>> This is a post from today in the OE General newsgroup.

>>>>>

>>>>> <QP>

>>>>> I opened OE this morning and all my created folders under local

>>>>> folders are

>>>>> gone. The only ones remaining are the defaulted folders of OE. Where

>>>>> did they

>>>>> go, and can I restore them? I had lots of emails saved in them that I

>>>>> would

>>>>> like back. Thanks..

>>>>> </QP>

>>>>>

>>>>> It is a rare day that we don't see at least one post like this. Before

>>>>> people started going to Vista and WinMail, or Windows Live Mail, it

>>>>> was common to see much more than one such post every day.

>>>>> --

>>>>>

>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>

>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>> news:4O_tk.23261$N87.22253@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>> Any disruption can wipe out folders BUT, is that an OE program

>>>>>> problem or the compacting program?

>>>>>> Is all the problems caused by NORTON an XP problem?????

>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:uKN9cdgCJHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>> Yes. But it is because of the fragile dbx file system. AFAIK, e-mail

>>>>>>> scanning does not pose such a threat in other e-mail clients. (Not

>>>>>>> that you need e-mail scanning at all).

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> As far as compacting, as Alias mentioned, any disruption of the

>>>>>>> process can wipe out entire folders. That is why we recommend

>>>>>>> working offline when compacting.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I'm not picking on the big guy, just pointing out the facts. Like I

>>>>>>> said. I'm still using OE and have no plans to go elsewhere in the

>>>>>>> foreseeable future.

>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:giXtk.18206$LG4.2178@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>> It is not OE as the article states. It (corruption) is caused by

>>>>>>>> NON_MICROSOFT virus scanning programs.

>>>>>>>> Amazing how MS always gets blamed for others poor programming. Pick

>>>>>>>> on the BIG GUY syndrome.

>>>>>>>>> It is a known issue for over a decade now.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption.

>>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx#EOAAC

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> And:

>>>>>>>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>> news:uoCtk.19437$jI5.3195@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>> Never had a problem with it. Why do you say dbx file structure is

>>>>>>>>>> frail?

>>>>>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>> news:eQqnKgTCJHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>> news:OtBtk.19432$jI5.5277@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>>>> Worse than OE?????? What's wrong with OE?

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, the fragile dbx file structure is the most

>>>>>>>>>>> important thing wrong with OE. They fixed that in WinMail, but

>>>>>>>>>>> screwed up a dozen other things that /did/ work fine. Don't get

>>>>>>>>>>> me wrong. I like OE. But it needs a lot of TLC thay many people

>>>>>>>>>>> don't do because it isn't in Help.

>>>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

They stopped production of Windows Mail, but the program was complete. (At

least in the minds of MS). They just took Windows Mail as it was and bundled

it with Vista.

OE has been out of production since 2002 IIRC, but it was still available in

XP after that.

--

Bruce Hagen

MS-MVP Outlook Express

Imperial Beach, CA

"Alan" <somewhere@nospam.not> wrote in message

news:OFdIrOtCJHA.700@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> I'm a bit confused, then, when you say that Windows Mail comes with Vista.

>

> In your earlier post you said:

>

> "Windows Mail in Vista does not use this dbx system. Instead, every

> message is stored as a separate .eml file and loss of messages is a

> rarity.

>

> Of course, as I stated previously, WinMail turned out to be a flop for

> other reasons and production of that program stopped in 2006, while

> Vista

> was still in beta."

>

> If production of WinMail stopped in 2006, then how can WinMail still come

> with Vista? I'm obviously missing something.

>

> Of course it doesn't help to lessen confusion that Microsoft persists in

> giving similar names to different applications such as Windows Explorer,

> Internet Explorer, Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows Mail, Windows Live

> Mail.... :->

>

> Alan

>

> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

> news:OrDew%23sCJHA.3352@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Windows Mail comes with Vista. Is that what you're asking?

>> --

>>

>> Bruce Hagen

>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>

>> "Alan" <somewhere@nospam.not> wrote in message

>> news:OfVwr7sCJHA.4884@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>> Hi Bruce,

>>>

>>> So is there any "native default" (for want of a better term) e-mail

>>> program that ships with Vista?

>>>

>>> Alan

>>>

>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>> news:Os1fXUsCJHA.2480@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>>> It is usually the user, (i.e. disrupting a compact process), or a third

>>>> party program that causes the problem. But if it were not for the way

>>>> the dbx file system stores message data, there wouldn't be any loss of

>>>> messages and this would be a moot topic.

>>>>

>>>> Windows Mail in Vista does not use this dbx system. Instead, every

>>>> message is stored as a separate .eml file and loss of messages is a

>>>> rarity.

>>>>

>>>> Of course, as I stated previously, WinMail turned out to be a flop for

>>>> other reasons and production of that program stopped in 2006, while

>>>> Vista was still in beta.

>>>>

>>>> The recommendation from Microsoft, (not me), is for XP and Vista users

>>>> to use Windows Live Mail instead. That is virtually their *fix* for OE

>>>> and WinMail issues.

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>

>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>> news:rVeuk.19567$jI5.16969@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>I agree totally. However, is it OE or some other program causing the

>>>>>problem? I'll bet it is not OE.

>>>>> Also, if YOU were the architect of OE how would you protect the .dbx

>>>>> files from

>>>>> being damaged from ANY source? That's my point.

>>>>>

>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>> news:e2EgzojCJHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> My last response.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> It is a problem with how OE was developed. It has existed with all

>>>>>> versions of Windows and not related to XP. At least with XP/SP2, a

>>>>>> copy of dbx files is backed up when you compact. OE MVPs fought for

>>>>>> that for almost a decade. That said, any third party program is

>>>>>> responsible to make their product compatible with whatever MS

>>>>>> develops. If Norton says their AV works with XP and IE/OE, then it

>>>>>> should work.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I don't know if the chicken came before the egg, but Windows programs

>>>>>> come before third party programs that /claim/ they are compatible.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Again. I am /not/ an advocate for MS. Spend some time in the two

>>>>>> major OE newsgroups. In the time I have been here, lost messages and

>>>>>> or entire folders is the most reported problem. Needless to say, if

>>>>>> people backed up OE, like they should any e-mail client, they could

>>>>>> easily fix any screw up.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> This is a post from today in the OE General newsgroup.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> <QP>

>>>>>> I opened OE this morning and all my created folders under local

>>>>>> folders are

>>>>>> gone. The only ones remaining are the defaulted folders of OE. Where

>>>>>> did they

>>>>>> go, and can I restore them? I had lots of emails saved in them that I

>>>>>> would

>>>>>> like back. Thanks..

>>>>>> </QP>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> It is a rare day that we don't see at least one post like this.

>>>>>> Before people started going to Vista and WinMail, or Windows Live

>>>>>> Mail, it was common to see much more than one such post every day.

>>>>>> --

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:4O_tk.23261$N87.22253@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>> Any disruption can wipe out folders BUT, is that an OE program

>>>>>>> problem or the compacting program?

>>>>>>> Is all the problems caused by NORTON an XP problem?????

>>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:uKN9cdgCJHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>> Yes. But it is because of the fragile dbx file system. AFAIK,

>>>>>>>> e-mail scanning does not pose such a threat in other e-mail

>>>>>>>> clients. (Not that you need e-mail scanning at all).

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> As far as compacting, as Alias mentioned, any disruption of the

>>>>>>>> process can wipe out entire folders. That is why we recommend

>>>>>>>> working offline when compacting.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I'm not picking on the big guy, just pointing out the facts. Like I

>>>>>>>> said. I'm still using OE and have no plans to go elsewhere in the

>>>>>>>> foreseeable future.

>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:giXtk.18206$LG4.2178@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>> It is not OE as the article states. It (corruption) is caused by

>>>>>>>>> NON_MICROSOFT virus scanning programs.

>>>>>>>>> Amazing how MS always gets blamed for others poor programming.

>>>>>>>>> Pick on the BIG GUY syndrome.

>>>>>>>>>> It is a known issue for over a decade now.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption.

>>>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx#EOAAC

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> And:

>>>>>>>>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

>>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>> news:uoCtk.19437$jI5.3195@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>>> Never had a problem with it. Why do you say dbx file structure

>>>>>>>>>>> is frail?

>>>>>>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>> news:eQqnKgTCJHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>>> news:OtBtk.19432$jI5.5277@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Worse than OE?????? What's wrong with OE?

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, the fragile dbx file structure is the most

>>>>>>>>>>>> important thing wrong with OE. They fixed that in WinMail, but

>>>>>>>>>>>> screwed up a dozen other things that /did/ work fine. Don't get

>>>>>>>>>>>> me wrong. I like OE. But it needs a lot of TLC thay many people

>>>>>>>>>>>> don't do because it isn't in Help.

>>>>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

BTY. Here is the newsgroup for Windows Mail if you want to take a look.

Windows Vista Mail Newsgroup.

In your newsreader:

http://news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.vista.mail

On the Web:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.vista.mail

--

Bruce Hagen

MS-MVP Outlook Express

Imperial Beach, CA

"Alan" <somewhere@nospam.not> wrote in message

news:OFdIrOtCJHA.700@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> I'm a bit confused, then, when you say that Windows Mail comes with Vista.

>

> In your earlier post you said:

>

> "Windows Mail in Vista does not use this dbx system. Instead, every

> message is stored as a separate .eml file and loss of messages is a

> rarity.

>

> Of course, as I stated previously, WinMail turned out to be a flop for

> other reasons and production of that program stopped in 2006, while

> Vista

> was still in beta."

>

> If production of WinMail stopped in 2006, then how can WinMail still come

> with Vista? I'm obviously missing something.

>

> Of course it doesn't help to lessen confusion that Microsoft persists in

> giving similar names to different applications such as Windows Explorer,

> Internet Explorer, Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows Mail, Windows Live

> Mail.... :->

>

> Alan

>

> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

> news:OrDew%23sCJHA.3352@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Windows Mail comes with Vista. Is that what you're asking?

>> --

>>

>> Bruce Hagen

>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>

>> "Alan" <somewhere@nospam.not> wrote in message

>> news:OfVwr7sCJHA.4884@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>> Hi Bruce,

>>>

>>> So is there any "native default" (for want of a better term) e-mail

>>> program that ships with Vista?

>>>

>>> Alan

>>>

>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>> news:Os1fXUsCJHA.2480@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>>> It is usually the user, (i.e. disrupting a compact process), or a third

>>>> party program that causes the problem. But if it were not for the way

>>>> the dbx file system stores message data, there wouldn't be any loss of

>>>> messages and this would be a moot topic.

>>>>

>>>> Windows Mail in Vista does not use this dbx system. Instead, every

>>>> message is stored as a separate .eml file and loss of messages is a

>>>> rarity.

>>>>

>>>> Of course, as I stated previously, WinMail turned out to be a flop for

>>>> other reasons and production of that program stopped in 2006, while

>>>> Vista was still in beta.

>>>>

>>>> The recommendation from Microsoft, (not me), is for XP and Vista users

>>>> to use Windows Live Mail instead. That is virtually their *fix* for OE

>>>> and WinMail issues.

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>

>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>> news:rVeuk.19567$jI5.16969@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>I agree totally. However, is it OE or some other program causing the

>>>>>problem? I'll bet it is not OE.

>>>>> Also, if YOU were the architect of OE how would you protect the .dbx

>>>>> files from

>>>>> being damaged from ANY source? That's my point.

>>>>>

>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>> news:e2EgzojCJHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> My last response.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> It is a problem with how OE was developed. It has existed with all

>>>>>> versions of Windows and not related to XP. At least with XP/SP2, a

>>>>>> copy of dbx files is backed up when you compact. OE MVPs fought for

>>>>>> that for almost a decade. That said, any third party program is

>>>>>> responsible to make their product compatible with whatever MS

>>>>>> develops. If Norton says their AV works with XP and IE/OE, then it

>>>>>> should work.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I don't know if the chicken came before the egg, but Windows programs

>>>>>> come before third party programs that /claim/ they are compatible.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Again. I am /not/ an advocate for MS. Spend some time in the two

>>>>>> major OE newsgroups. In the time I have been here, lost messages and

>>>>>> or entire folders is the most reported problem. Needless to say, if

>>>>>> people backed up OE, like they should any e-mail client, they could

>>>>>> easily fix any screw up.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> This is a post from today in the OE General newsgroup.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> <QP>

>>>>>> I opened OE this morning and all my created folders under local

>>>>>> folders are

>>>>>> gone. The only ones remaining are the defaulted folders of OE. Where

>>>>>> did they

>>>>>> go, and can I restore them? I had lots of emails saved in them that I

>>>>>> would

>>>>>> like back. Thanks..

>>>>>> </QP>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> It is a rare day that we don't see at least one post like this.

>>>>>> Before people started going to Vista and WinMail, or Windows Live

>>>>>> Mail, it was common to see much more than one such post every day.

>>>>>> --

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:4O_tk.23261$N87.22253@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>> Any disruption can wipe out folders BUT, is that an OE program

>>>>>>> problem or the compacting program?

>>>>>>> Is all the problems caused by NORTON an XP problem?????

>>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:uKN9cdgCJHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>> Yes. But it is because of the fragile dbx file system. AFAIK,

>>>>>>>> e-mail scanning does not pose such a threat in other e-mail

>>>>>>>> clients. (Not that you need e-mail scanning at all).

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> As far as compacting, as Alias mentioned, any disruption of the

>>>>>>>> process can wipe out entire folders. That is why we recommend

>>>>>>>> working offline when compacting.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I'm not picking on the big guy, just pointing out the facts. Like I

>>>>>>>> said. I'm still using OE and have no plans to go elsewhere in the

>>>>>>>> foreseeable future.

>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:giXtk.18206$LG4.2178@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>> It is not OE as the article states. It (corruption) is caused by

>>>>>>>>> NON_MICROSOFT virus scanning programs.

>>>>>>>>> Amazing how MS always gets blamed for others poor programming.

>>>>>>>>> Pick on the BIG GUY syndrome.

>>>>>>>>>> It is a known issue for over a decade now.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption.

>>>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx#EOAAC

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> And:

>>>>>>>>>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

>>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>> news:uoCtk.19437$jI5.3195@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>>> Never had a problem with it. Why do you say dbx file structure

>>>>>>>>>>> is frail?

>>>>>>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@mymail.invalid> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>> news:eQqnKgTCJHA.528@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>>> news:OtBtk.19432$jI5.5277@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Worse than OE?????? What's wrong with OE?

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, the fragile dbx file structure is the most

>>>>>>>>>>>> important thing wrong with OE. They fixed that in WinMail, but

>>>>>>>>>>>> screwed up a dozen other things that /did/ work fine. Don't get

>>>>>>>>>>>> me wrong. I like OE. But it needs a lot of TLC thay many people

>>>>>>>>>>>> don't do because it isn't in Help.

>>>>>>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen

>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Outlook Express

>>>>>>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 30, 2008

Re: Can Mail be used with Winxp?

....due to asking the question. OE MVP's eyes glaze over for lotsa other

reasons, too!

Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> Heh, heh... watching an OE MVP's eyes glaze over... heh, heh...

>

> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:ezX1LDlCJHA.3396@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> Don't bother asking "why" or "how" (which will cause an OE MVP's eyes to

>> glaze over), just do some searching of Google Groups. You'll find (tens

>> of) thousands of archived posts that contain variations on "Don't touch

>> your computer until the compacting process has ended!" or "Do not cancel

>> Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt to close OE via

>> Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting is taking

>> place."

>>

>> <QP>

>> [The compacting] process can take several minutes and you should not

>> attempt to use your computer until it is finished.

>> </QP>

>> Source: http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact

>>

>> [http://www.insideoe.com is he OE user's Bible]

>>

>> OE's been an odd, bug-ridden app ever since it was released over a decade

>> ago, and all further development was stopped in June 2006. We suspect

>> that

>> the guy who wrote OE has been permanently confined in a lunatic asylum

>> and

>> wearing a straightjacket for years.

>> --

>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002

>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net

>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

>>

>> Gary S. Terhune wrote:

>>> I thought about it a long time ago, watched several colleagues spend

>>> months,

>>> IIRC, doing painstaking tests, I may even have participated in them

>>> myself,

>>> can't recall. And yes, I can say that pulling the cord from the wall

>>> while

>>> an OE folder is being compacted is a valid test of DBX fragility versus

>>> other mail storage systems. Versus just about any other file type, for

>>> that

>>> matter. Those same fellas still hang out in the groups, so if you want

>>> to

>>> know *why* this is so, or *what* makes DBX files much more fragile under

>>> the

>>> stated conditions, the OE groups are the place for you to ask. I

>>> recommend

>>> you ask nicely. Or you can even claim that what we're telling you is BS

>>> and

>>> somebody "here" (in the OE groups, remember) oughta go over "there"

>>> (here)

>>> and tell them what's what!

>> <snip>

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