Guest lenny Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Hi, Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input registered. It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I should try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red herring and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log files except to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only took a few minutes though.
Guest Thee Chicago Wolf Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often >Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server 2003 >for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started to >freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input >registered. > >It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few >days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. > >I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the >RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I should >try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red herring >and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log files except to >tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. > >I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. Could >it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is difficult to >test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a system test from >the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only took a few minutes >though. RAM speed mismatches might cause this. BIOS up to date? Firmwares up to date? - Thee Chicago Wolf
Guest lenny Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often Why would it suddenly start and be intermittent and also with different RAM? "Thee Chicago Wolf" <.@.> wrote in message news:pottb41agrf5knotpma738i7a9rocskcbh@4ax.com... > >Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server > >2003 >>for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started to >>freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input >>registered. >> >>It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few >>days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. >> >>I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the >>RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I should >>try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red herring >>and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log files except >>to >>tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. >> >>I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. >>Could >>it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is difficult to >>test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a system test from >>the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only took a few minutes >>though. > > RAM speed mismatches might cause this. BIOS up to date? Firmwares up > to date? > > - Thee Chicago Wolf
Guest Thee Chicago Wolf Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often >Why would it suddenly start and be intermittent and also with different RAM? In my experience, RAM that is not matched, no matter how high quality, cannot be counted on to perform with optimal stability as would matched RAM. Here's something you can do. Go grab CPU-Z 1.47 from here (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php), fire it up, and tell me what it says for the memory on all slots on the SPD tab. This may yield some useful info about your RAM. - Thee Chicago Wolf
Guest lenny Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often Only Memory in Slot 1 and 2. Both are DDR2, 256mb, PC2-4300 (266Mhz) Samsung Same Part number for both M3 91T3253FZ3-CD5 Correction is EEC "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message news:x5SdnUUSN_jOayPVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@pipex.net... > Hi, > Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server > 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started > to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input > registered. > > It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few > days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. > > I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the > RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I should > try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red herring > and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log files except > to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. > > I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. > Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is > difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a > system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only > took a few minutes though. >
Guest Larry Struckmeyer [SBS-MVP] Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often Hi Lenny: If you can spare the time, I would suggest booting to the bios and letting it sit there for a few minutes and see if it locks up there. That might point to the power supply or the CPU overheating. I also suggest letting it cool for say a half hour, even opening the case and pointing a fan into the interior to increase air flow, restart, and trying to get a look into the event logs for hardware errors. You might be surprised at the amount of dust you find in a system that has run continuously for the length of its warranty. Take it outside and blow the dust out of it. Dell will sometimes give you the benefit of their advice for a system that is this close to the warranty date, especially if you agree to renew the agreement. -Larry "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message news:x5SdnUUSN_jOayPVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@pipex.net... > Hi, > Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server > 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started > to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input > registered. > > It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few > days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. > > I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the > RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I should > try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red herring > and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log files except > to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. > > I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. > Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is > difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a > system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only > took a few minutes though. >
Guest lenny Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often Hi Larry, The problem with that is that is sometimes goes for 3 days normally so turning it on with the Bios on for a bit is a good idea but it might be ages even when running normally before anything happens. I have made sure that it is clear inside and the side has been off for some time. All the fans are working as they should and it is cool inside the case at least. There are no Event Logs at all showing any hardware problems as all and nothing at the time of the freeze ever. It is often left for over half an hour before the reboot but it is only luck whether it lasts another 5 minutes or 5 days after that. It has been on now for a good 45 minutes without any problems. It is doing a memory test and hasn't found any errors. "Larry Struckmeyer [sBS-MVP]" <lstruckmeyer@mis-wizards.com> wrote in message news:%23nc7gugDJHA.4588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Hi Lenny: > > If you can spare the time, I would suggest booting to the bios and letting > it sit there for a few minutes and see if it locks up there. That might > point to the power supply or the CPU overheating. > > I also suggest letting it cool for say a half hour, even opening the case > and pointing a fan into the interior to increase air flow, restart, and > trying to get a look into the event logs for hardware errors. > > You might be surprised at the amount of dust you find in a system that has > run continuously for the length of its warranty. Take it outside and blow > the dust out of it. > > Dell will sometimes give you the benefit of their advice for a system that > is this close to the warranty date, especially if you agree to renew the > agreement. > > -Larry > > "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message > news:x5SdnUUSN_jOayPVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@pipex.net... >> Hi, >> Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server >> 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started >> to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input >> registered. >> >> It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few >> days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. >> >> I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the >> RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I >> should try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red >> herring and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log >> files except to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. >> >> I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. >> Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is >> difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a >> system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only >> took a few minutes though. >> >
Guest SuperGumby [SBS MVP] Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often it probably doesn't explain your freezes but in a way I hope you are talking about the product not-so-lovingly referred to as 'Fresno', Windows Server 2003 for Small Business Server, rather than SBS2003 (which also identifies itself in similar manner). An easy way of differentiating the products is that SBS includes Exchange, and has a maximum CAL count of 75 rather than 10(or is Fresno 15?). Though the MS datasheet suggests the minimum RAM for SBS is 512MB anyone who believes that has rocks in their head. I've run SBS in 1GB but a more realistic minimum is 2. Heck, asking just Windows Server 2003 to run in 512MB is 'pushing it'. For any significant number of users the minimum (and maximum allowed) for a fully functioning SBS 2003 R2 is thought to be 4GB by many. If it does turn out to be the HDD, don't be disappointed. That drive has been thrashed to death, 24*7 for 18mths. And I hope that in reality 'that drive' is a RAID array. _NO_ server should operate on a single drive, and certainly NO SBS. "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message news:L96dnY3FXsJPYiPVnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@pipex.net... > Only Memory in Slot 1 and 2. Both are DDR2, 256mb, PC2-4300 (266Mhz) > Samsung > Same Part number for both M3 91T3253FZ3-CD5 > Correction is EEC > > "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message > news:x5SdnUUSN_jOayPVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@pipex.net... >> Hi, >> Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server >> 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started >> to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input >> registered. >> >> It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few >> days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. >> >> I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the >> RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I >> should try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red >> herring and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log >> files except to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. >> >> I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. >> Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is >> difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a >> system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only >> took a few minutes though. >> > >
Guest lenny Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often Yes it is Fresno. The only reason that there is such a small amount of RAM is because I have replaced the original after an error appeared and this is just there until the main replacement is delivered. It hasn't made any difference to the problem though. The machine has been running on 1GB Ram since new so it isn't that causing the problem. There are only 2 users and 2 laptop users connecting so it isn't getting much of a hammering. There isn't a Raid system installed. It is a single HD (All setup before I came along and there are many other 'issues' with the whole office setup but that is for another day) Even if it has run for 18 months it still shouldn't really fail. I have other servers operating elsewhere and they have been going for years without problems. Thanks for the advice though Cheers "SuperGumby [sBS MVP]" <not@your.nellie> wrote in message news:%23$q5kNhDJHA.4588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > it probably doesn't explain your freezes but in a way I hope you are > talking about the product not-so-lovingly referred to as 'Fresno', Windows > Server 2003 for Small Business Server, rather than SBS2003 (which also > identifies itself in similar manner). > > An easy way of differentiating the products is that SBS includes Exchange, > and has a maximum CAL count of 75 rather than 10(or is Fresno 15?). > > Though the MS datasheet suggests the minimum RAM for SBS is 512MB anyone > who believes that has rocks in their head. I've run SBS in 1GB but a more > realistic minimum is 2. Heck, asking just Windows Server 2003 to run in > 512MB is 'pushing it'. For any significant number of users the minimum > (and maximum allowed) for a fully functioning SBS 2003 R2 is thought to be > 4GB by many. > > If it does turn out to be the HDD, don't be disappointed. That drive has > been thrashed to death, 24*7 for 18mths. > > And I hope that in reality 'that drive' is a RAID array. _NO_ server > should operate on a single drive, and certainly NO SBS. > > "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message > news:L96dnY3FXsJPYiPVnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@pipex.net... >> Only Memory in Slot 1 and 2. Both are DDR2, 256mb, PC2-4300 (266Mhz) >> Samsung >> Same Part number for both M3 91T3253FZ3-CD5 >> Correction is EEC >> >> "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message >> news:x5SdnUUSN_jOayPVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@pipex.net... >>> Hi, >>> Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server >>> 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has >>> started to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard >>> input registered. >>> >>> It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few >>> days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. >>> >>> I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with >>> the RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I >>> should try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a >>> red herring and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log >>> files except to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. >>> >>> I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. >>> Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is >>> difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a >>> system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only >>> took a few minutes though. >>> >> >> > >
Guest lenny Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often I am doing a defrag using Paragon at the moment just in case (50 minutes and it is still working OK) "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message news:x5SdnUUSN_jOayPVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@pipex.net... > Hi, > Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server > 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started > to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input > registered. > > It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few > days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. > > I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the > RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I should > try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red herring > and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log files except > to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. > > I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. > Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is > difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a > system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only > took a few minutes though. >
Guest SuperGumby [SBS MVP] Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Re: system freeze very often OK, very _few_ members of microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs have any experience of Fresno. Those that do probably purchased it by mistake, thinking it was SBS2003. I'm on record as saying naming the product so similarly is one of those 'big goofs' MS just too frequently do. I still reckon you need RAID, and a relatively inexpensive RAID1 card and two SATA HDD's would conclusively prove if the problem was HDD related. I'm pretty sure the baby Dells (like the 440) come with a similar CD to the more midrange systems which has further diagnostics (they take longer to run than a few minutes) or if it's an OEM install the Dell utility partition may have such. I'd run the longer (RAM and HDD) tests and possibly the CPU tests as well. Another idea is to identify the drive manufacturer (Dell do change) and grab the drive diag from them. "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message news:6pWdnQvVDJ5EkiLVnZ2dnUVZ8szinZ2d@pipex.net... > Yes it is Fresno. The only reason that there is such a small amount of RAM > is because I have replaced the original after an error appeared and this > is just there until the main replacement is delivered. It hasn't made any > difference to the problem though. The machine has been running on 1GB Ram > since new so it isn't that causing the problem. There are only 2 users and > 2 laptop users connecting so it isn't getting much of a hammering. > > There isn't a Raid system installed. It is a single HD (All setup before I > came along and there are many other 'issues' with the whole office setup > but that is for another day) > > Even if it has run for 18 months it still shouldn't really fail. I have > other servers operating elsewhere and they have been going for years > without problems. > > Thanks for the advice though > Cheers > "SuperGumby [sBS MVP]" <not@your.nellie> wrote in message > news:%23$q5kNhDJHA.4588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> it probably doesn't explain your freezes but in a way I hope you are >> talking about the product not-so-lovingly referred to as 'Fresno', >> Windows Server 2003 for Small Business Server, rather than SBS2003 (which >> also identifies itself in similar manner). >> >> An easy way of differentiating the products is that SBS includes >> Exchange, and has a maximum CAL count of 75 rather than 10(or is Fresno >> 15?). >> >> Though the MS datasheet suggests the minimum RAM for SBS is 512MB anyone >> who believes that has rocks in their head. I've run SBS in 1GB but a more >> realistic minimum is 2. Heck, asking just Windows Server 2003 to run in >> 512MB is 'pushing it'. For any significant number of users the minimum >> (and maximum allowed) for a fully functioning SBS 2003 R2 is thought to >> be 4GB by many. >> >> If it does turn out to be the HDD, don't be disappointed. That drive has >> been thrashed to death, 24*7 for 18mths. >> >> And I hope that in reality 'that drive' is a RAID array. _NO_ server >> should operate on a single drive, and certainly NO SBS. >> >> "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message >> news:L96dnY3FXsJPYiPVnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@pipex.net... >>> Only Memory in Slot 1 and 2. Both are DDR2, 256mb, PC2-4300 (266Mhz) >>> Samsung >>> Same Part number for both M3 91T3253FZ3-CD5 >>> Correction is EEC >>> >>> "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message >>> news:x5SdnUUSN_jOayPVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@pipex.net... >>>> Hi, >>>> Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server >>>> 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has >>>> started to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or >>>> keyboard input registered. >>>> >>>> It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every >>>> few days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. >>>> >>>> I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with >>>> the RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I >>>> should try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a >>>> red herring and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the >>>> log files except to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. >>>> >>>> I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. >>>> Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is >>>> difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a >>>> system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only >>>> took a few minutes though. >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
Guest lenny Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Re: system freeze very often defrag worked all the way. I have also done a number of seagate HD tests. No problems reported. I have also used memtest and that found no problems. AVG has been taken off - just in case. "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message news:_-ydncTwTM-0jSLVnZ2dnUVZ8svinZ2d@pipex.net... >I am doing a defrag using Paragon at the moment just in case (50 minutes >and it is still working OK) > > "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message > news:x5SdnUUSN_jOayPVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@pipex.net... >> Hi, >> Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server >> 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started >> to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input >> registered. >> >> It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few >> days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. >> >> I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the >> RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I >> should try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red >> herring and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log >> files except to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. >> >> I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. >> Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is >> difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a >> system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only >> took a few minutes though. >> > >
Guest Andrew Morton Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Re: system freeze very often lenny wrote: > I am doing a defrag using Paragon at the moment just in case (50 > minutes and it is still working OK) That is a Very Bad Idea on a flaky system unless you already have a complete backup. What was wrong with the previous RAM? It is possible that the motherboard is failing, or in particular the Northbridge (which controls the RAM) might be overheating if its heatsink has come loose. Contacting Dell support would be a good idea. Andrew
Guest lenny Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Re: system freeze very often I have an update about this problem. Over the last couple of days I have had the server in my office to check it. All 3rd party memory and HD checking software has come back OK. I have also been running the 'Health Monitor' and it has come up with some errors on a regular basis. Memory and System Processor Use. The System Processor Use every few minutes has a warning which seems to be Processor Queue Length. Current 2, Minimum 1, Maximum 6. Average 2.33333. The warning is set to show if the queue length is greater than 2 for 5 times or more. The Memory also has a warning. this is checked every 6 minutes and 7 times out of 10 seems to be giving a warning. But I guess with this it is only because there isn't enough memory installed. I am in the process of getting a couple of GB more. Could the Processor errors be occurring because of the memory issue? Also, maybe the Processor Queue Length is set to low? Needless to say the server hasn't actually frozen once since I have been testing it for 2 days. I am taking it back to the office now and I can guess that I will get the phone call within 2 hours telling me that it is frozen. "lenny" <lenny@thetakeout.com> wrote in message news:x5SdnUUSN_jOayPVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@pipex.net... > Hi, > Over the last few weeks the system (Dell PowerEdge SC440 Windows Server > 2003 for small business server- out of warranty by 3 months!) has started > to freeze. The screen freezes with no mouse movement or keyboard input > registered. > > It started just every few days then sometimes twice a day then every few > days then once a day and today every 10 minutes or so. > > I have changed the RAM (After the Health Monitor showed an error with the > RAM) and also the LAN card (there wasn't any errors but I thought I should > try it) but although they seemed to make a difference it was a red herring > and now it is as bad as ever. There are no errors in the log files except > to tell me that the system was rebooted unexpectedly. > > I am thinking that it is the Hard Drive but it is only 18 months old. > Could it be anything else? What should I try first and how? It is > difficult to test the HD as it freezes too quickly now. I have done a > system test from the F11 button and both the ram and HD passed. It only > took a few minutes though. >
Guest Andrew Morton Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 Re: system freeze very often lenny wrote: > Needless to say the server hasn't actually frozen once since I have > been testing it for 2 days. I am taking it back to the office now and > I can guess that I will get the phone call within 2 hours telling me > that it is frozen. You could use the stress-test feature of Prime95 to try and localise the problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime95 Andrew
Recommended Posts