Computer keeps rebooting!

[Dolbette]

Hi there, I'm not sure if I'm in the right place, so if not, can you let me know where to post my issue?

 

A little history: Our desktop PC (Windows Vista, HP Pavillion) was kept inside a (backless) cupboard in a desk for a while (due to having a toddler who wanted to play with it!), where it became caked in dust. When we got a new desk, we took the side off intending to clean it with a compressed air spray. However, on sliding the side off, a wire came with it, which seemed to be linked to the power button (the computer wouldn’t power up after the wire came out), after much fiddling and a lot of time, we managed to somehow get the wire to sit back under the power button and the PC booted up again, so we didn’t dare risk taking the side off to clean it! The fan makes a horrible sound intermittently (especially when it’s very busy), which I attribute to dust clogging up the fan and sometimes the computer runs incredibly slowly to the point where it’s unusable, the only thing which seems to help is running a virus scan (even though no major viruses are found!).

I tried to open a programme last week (Filezilla) and the computer froze, the screen darkened, as it does when an update pop-up appears, the mouse pointer still moved, but couldn’t use it to open anything. I had no choice but to turn off manually. Left it a while and turned back on, it restarted by itself before it’d finished booting up, it does it over and over again, even in safe mode. Oddly, I can open some programmes as soon as the computer turns on (which is unusual as it’s normally rather slow!) – I wanted to see if I could change any settings in the control panel…

 

I’ve pretty much resigned myself to the fact that the PC is beyond help and have been told by friends that I can save the stuff on my hard drive, by turning it into an external drive – I’ve not yet done that, as I know that once I take the side off, I risk yanking that stupid little wire out to the power button! I understand that reinstalling Windows may help, but due to the above issue, I’ve not tried this yet (plus I don’t have any boot up discs!).

 

Many thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

Naomi

[KenB]

Hi Naomi

 

You seem to have two issues which may [ or may not ] be related.

 

You know that your machine is loaded with dust - so this MUST be sorted.

Switch off at the wall - but leave the plug in to maintain the earth [ground] connection to the motherboard.

 

Take the side panel off carefully - try not to disturb the wire.

If the wire does come off - a photo would help us identify what this wire is.

 

If you are using compressed air from a can do this in small bursts as long bursts can expel the propellant as a liquid.

 

I also suggest that you do this outside - it can be VERY messy.

Pay particular attention to the vents / fans / heatsink and don't forget to check under the motherboard if it is accessible.

 

If you like - for the moment - you can try booting up with the side panel off.

[Dolbette]

Hi Ken and thank you for your reply,

 

I'll take the panel off and try to sort the dust problem - do you have any recommendations as to how to get the dust off? I thought the can of air was probably the best way, but I'm open to suggestion if there's another way which might work as well as, or better. I've never cleaned the inside of a computer before, so it's all a bit daunting! I'll take photos as I go, in case of issues with the wire.

 

Do you think that the dust inside the machine could be causing the problem with rebooting?

[KenB]

Hi

 

Do you think that the dust inside the machine could be causing the problem with rebooting?

In a word - Yes :)

We come across so many desktops that are overheating due to a buildup of dust.

There is a cut-off temperature that will cause the machine to shut down to protect the hardware.

 

A can of compressed air is probably best.

Short bursts.

It will be messy - do this outside.

 

A soft brush can be used too. Do not be tempted to use a vacuum cleaner. It can produce static which can damage some components.

[Dolbette]

Thanks for that... I'll take the plunge and remove the side panel, although the weather's rather awful at the moment, so it might have to wait. I'll still take the panel off to have a look what we're dealing with. I found this site http://www.directron.com/cleaning.html which has a step-by-step guide on how to clean the inside of the computer - would you agree with the advice given on the page? Do I need everything it says I need? I want to make sure I have the right stuff and do a proper job :-)

 

Thanks again for the help!

[KenB]

would you agree with the advice given on the page?

Whilst a lot of it is good advice not all is appropriate to you.

 

All you will need is a can of compressed air and a soft brush.

 

The link mentioned a vacuum cleaner - which is confusing.

I have already said that vacuum cleaners can create static. Best not to take them too close to the inside of the case.

 

The anti-static wrist band is only necessary if you are working a lot inside the case.

You are not.

 

Rubbing Alcohol is used to clean off greasy surfaces - not necessary for you.

 

Give the compressed air / soft brush a go.

If your case looks just about dust free when you have finished - this will be fine.

All cases have some dust in because the fans draw it in.

[Dolbette]

I took the plunge and tried it, no sign of the little wire, we must not have unscrewed enough screws last time, so tried to slide the side off, rather than it just lift off, as it did this time. Anyway, cleaned it to the best of my ability (it was disgustingly filthy!) with the compressed air, I only used the vacuum to clear up the mess I'd made all over the dining room table (I was too eager to wait to do it outside, lol). Alas, the problem is still ocurring :-( The compuer keeps rebooting, UNLESS I manage to hit "shut down" before it restarts itself. I let it reboot a few times, then shut it down - I don't know if it's relevant or not, but when shutting down it said "configuring updates" (it's said this every time I've shut it down, after this problem started).

Is there anything else I can try before I take out the hard drive to salvage my files?

[Starbuck]

sometimes the computer runs incredibly slowly to the point where it’s unusable, the only thing which seems to help is running a virus scan (even though no major viruses are found!).

What do you mean by 'No major viruses are found'?

What is found?

[Dolbette]

Nothing whatsoever :-S

[KenB]

Can you boot up in Safe Mode.

 

Switch on and constantly tap F8 about once per second.

From the list select "Safe Mode"

Graphics will look a little odd - if you manage to boot up.

 

If you cannot boot up in Safe Mode without it re-booting or freezing try the following:

Use the F8 procedure again.

This time select Safe Mode with Command Prompt.

At the prompt type ....rstrui.exe

 

This will run System Restore.

Select a date that is before the start of your trouble.

[Dolbette]

Safe mode has the same issue, except reboots even faster... I'll definitely try the system restore, will it work even I haven't set a restore date in the computer? Do you think I should still try to save everything from my hard drive before I try the System Restore or will the hard drive not be affected? I haven't recently put anything on there that I can't live without, but I do have stuff on there I'd like to retrieve.

Thanks again for the help :-)

[KenB]

will it work even I haven't set a restore date

Restore points are set automatically - as long as System Restore is activated ( it is by default )

 

The System Restore process does not affect the data / files / photos on the drive.

It will - if you can run it - revert the system settings to what they were on the chosen date.

[Dolbette]

Many thanks, I'll let you know if it works (or if it doesn't!) :-)

[Dolbette]

I selected the option "safe mode with Command Prompt", but the command prompt didn't show up, the computer loaded as if going into safe mode, then restarted itself. Gone into F8 again and one of the options is "last known good configuration (advanced)", do I want to try this (I'm guessing not, since it says "advanced")? Or another one of the options in the list maybe?

[Plastic Nev]

Hi Naomi, the "Last known good configuration" is actually now the last resort to try. Similar to an ordinary restore and should not affect data, but is a little more powerful if you like.

If that fails, and considering you have no disks, it may be the next step is the hard drive out, into an adapter or enclosure (Caddy) and connect to a working computer. Files and data should be retrievable providing the drive is actually working and OK. The working computer can also be used to run a check of the disk using chckdisk.

[KenB]

Naomi,

 

Take a look at the Power Button.

When you press it - does it actually spring out again?

If this button is sticking in - this will cause the system to shut down after 7 - 10 seconds.

 

Are you sure that the wire you mentioned going to the switch is properly attached?

 

Any chance of a photo of the offending wire and its connection ?

 

=====================

 

I am going to suggest removing some of the cards from the motherboard.

This is actually easier than it sounds.

If you are prepared to have a go at this let me know.

(I can provide pictures :) )

 

=====================

 

When you switch on - do you get and beeps from the system ?

If so - how many ?

[Dolbette]

Thanks for that Ken, I'll take the side panel off again and have a look at that button, it'll probably be this evening... I'll look for that wire again, when I took the panel off the other day, I couldn't even pinpoint it, although I was mainly concentrating on getting the dust out of the machine - I think my hubby unscrewed the wrong part of the casing when we previously tried to take the side panel off (as the panel slid, it wouldn't just lift off), therefore catching a wire that normally wouldn't have gotten caught. I'm not lettin him near it again though, as he knows even less than me about computers :) I'll take pictures of the wire (if I can find it) and the inside of the machine, so you can see what I'm dealing with. I don't have a problem with having a go at removing cards from the motherboard, since the only thing I'm really concerned about is losing the files on my hard drive - if I manage to break any of the other components while trying to fix them, then so be it, it can't get much more broken than it is, lol.

 

I don't get any beeps, no. The machine stays on a couple of minutes after turning on, before shutting down... I had wondered about the power button being to blame, but wouldn't the machine just turn straight back off (rather than after a couple of minutes) after turning on, if the power button was partially depressed?

[KenB]

I don't get any beeps,

Most systems have an internal speaker - if yours used to beep then this is a bit more than dust.

Normal boot up should give one beep - any more would indicate the source of the problem.

 

but wouldn't the machine just turn straight back off

Yes - quite correct.

 

The machine stays on a couple of minutes after turning on, before shutting down.

This does sound like over-heating.

The usual culprit that causes this is the Video Card. This is what you monitor cable is attached to.

With the side panel off you should be able to see this.

 

Some systems do not have a card but the Video section is part of the main board itself.

You will know when you see inside - a card look a bit like this:

http://di1-3.shoppingshadow.com/images/pi/91/af/6a/34767786-260x260-0-0_Matrox+Graphics+card+MGA+G450+AGP+4x+32+MB+DDR+SGR.jpg

 

[You will need to remove the monitor cable from the back of the machine. There are 2 thumb-screws.]

 

There will be a small screw holding the Video Card in.

This is located on the bent part of the bracket - top of the picture above.

This is screwed to the back of the case.

Once you take this out ( don't drop it ) the Video Card will be able to be removed by rocking it gently from one end of the slot to the other.

 

If you have a second VGA connection

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/SVGA_port.jpg/300px-SVGA_port.jpg

Connect your monitor to this.

 

If not - it doesn't matter.

With the Video Card out ( no monitor connected ) Switch on.

Your machine will still boot up - fans will run - keyboard will light up - hard drive will spin

 

Is the machine stable - or does it re-boot / shut down after a couple of minutes ?

[Dolbette]

Okay, I've had a good look and the board where the monitor plugs into, doesn't look anything like your photo - I'll try to post a picture of it (it says Asus on it and has a fan saying Asus on it also), I took some, but my camera didn't want to focus inside the PC, plus there's loads of wires in the way, making it awkward to angle the camera at. If it's an integrated card, how will I know?

[KenB]

If it's an integrated card, how will I know?

Basically the monitor cable will be connected to a part of the motherboard that obviously cannot be removed.

 

http://murfsgarage.cybertechhelp.com/images/onboard.jpg

The picture shows on-board video - no card - just a VGA socket.

 

A Video Card sits in a slot and looks something like the photo provided. It is at right angles ( sitting vertical ) to the main board.

 

Which do you have?

[Dolbette]

It looks more like this than the previous picture... I'm gathering that nothing else can be done if the video card is integrated? I now have another problem, I'm trying to figure out how to get the hard drive out in order to fix it into an external casing. There's some stuff in the way, mainly an empty metal casing (sorry, I don't know the technical names for any of this stuff!), which seems to be held in by some invisible force! I've unscrewed the only two screws which seemed to be holding it in, but it's not budging. I thought I could perhaps take the opposite side of the casing off (as the hard drive is on the far side), but it's held on by bolts which seem to be unmoveable. While I'm at it, I might as well ask, how do I know if it's a SATA drive?

[Dolbette]

Thought I should just add to this... I've just figured out how to take the front panel of the PC off (to see if it would help me get the hard drive out - it didn't) and found the wire that got yanked with the top of the machine (the top panel slides off, which apparently, after asking him, the hubby thought he had to remove to get to the insides of the machine, doh!) and found the offending wire, which on close inspection, seems to have been yanked to the point of breaking, away from a wire coming out of the machine, if I can figure how to strip the wire without breaking any of it's threads, will taping them back together with electrical tape work? Could this be the source of my issue?!

[Dolbette]

I stripped the wire (traced it back to the back of the machine, but not sure where it's connected to), taped it together, but it still restarted itself :-(

[KenB]

Hi,

 

I've unscrewed the only two screws which seemed to be holding it in, but it's not budging.

There will be 2 more screws on the other side of the drive.

 

how do I know if it's a SATA drive?

An IDE drive has a broad grey cable attached to it ( 80 wires ) if yours has only a few coloured wires it is SATA.

 

Could this be the source of my issue?!

Unlikely - but without knowing what this wire is attached to it is hard to say what it is for.

 

It seems from your reply that you have on-board video.

 

The next thing to try is to take the RAM out.

 

http://www.data.sg/pics/ram_slot_1.jpg

 

The white levers fold backwards to release the RAM

 

Switch off at the wall - but leave the plug in to maintain the earth ( ground ) connection to the motherboard.

Touch the metal case to discharge any static in you.

Take both RAM out. (I am assuming there are 2 modules )

 

Switch on and try to boot up.

Your machine should make beeping noises ( if there is a speaker )

It should be stable ( fans spinning - LEDs lit )

It should not re-boot. ( It will not boot up - but it should be stable ........hopefully )

 

If it is - switch off again and replace just one RAM module.

 

Switch on and try booting again.

 

If no luck - swap the RAM over and try the other module.

 

If it boots up on one ( and is stable ) but not the other - you have found your problem.

 

Let me know the results - beeps ? Did it boot up ? Stable ?

[Dolbette]

Thanks for that, will try it today... Just been searching online for tutorials on how to get the hard drive out (found one, it's a two minute job now I know how!), but at the same time, found this, which gives you a list of parts inside the machine, looks like the video card is removeable after all, as it's the one pictured in this link, I just can't see how I can get it out, as the only screw I can see is situated in an awkward place, can't get to it unless I buy a screwdriver with a really short handle (have tried the little mini-screwdriver set we use for reading glasses, with no luck): http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c01420094&lang=en&cc=us&taskId=125&contentType=SupportFAQ&prodSeriesId=3688699&prodTypeId=12454

 

Anyway, do you think I should first have a go at getting this video card out, or try the RAM? In the meantime, I'll search online for a way to get the video card out!

 

Just for further information, I can't actually remember the last time the machine beeped when you first turn it on, what does the beep mean/do?

 

Thanks again :-)