Guest Ray Posted September 14, 2008 Posted September 14, 2008 I work in an elementary school and we are attempting to use SteadyState with Disk Protection enabled to protect the computers from the kids in the computer lab and Library. We have redirected the Desktop and My Documents folders to a network drive - but we have several applications that don't play nicely and store their data on the computer's hard drive and don't offer the option of changing the data location. Does anyone have any suggestions for some method of getting around this problem? If we can't find a solution, I'm afraid we're going to have to abort the whole process. 2 applications specifically are Type 2 Learn 3 by Sunburst Technology and KidPix by Broderbund/The Learning Company Thanks In Advance... Ray
Guest Galen Posted September 14, 2008 Posted September 14, 2008 Re: SteadyState and WDP My reply is at the bottom of your sent message. In news:q3voc455o2337p183tppa12858fulbbiri@4ax.com, Ray <ray_park@bellsouth.net> typed: > I work in an elementary school and we are attempting to use > SteadyState with Disk Protection enabled to protect the computers from > the kids in the computer lab and Library. We have redirected the > Desktop and My Documents folders to a network drive - but we have > several applications that don't play nicely and store their data on > the computer's hard drive and don't offer the option of changing the > data location. > > Does anyone have any suggestions for some method of getting around > this problem? If we can't find a solution, I'm afraid we're going to > have to abort the whole process. > > 2 applications specifically are Type 2 Learn 3 by Sunburst Technology > and KidPix by Broderbund/The Learning Company > > > Thanks In Advance... > Ray I hope that this doesn't come out sounding snarky. That is not my intent. The developers of those applications have probably heard of this issue in the past and may well have a solution. Have you tried contacting them? The only rational methods I could think of changing this would be programatically or via the use of either VMs or some sort of remote application use such as roaming profiles in an AD. The above options, given the state of affairs in our current education system, are likely to be cost prohibitive though the VMs might be more worth while to look at these days with some recent changes but then you end up with licensure issues for the virtual OSes. What's the timeline you're working with? -- Galen (Not Current MS-MVP) My Geek Site: http://kgiii.info Web Hosting: http://whathostingshould.be "In solving a problem of this sort, the grand thing is to be able to reason backwards. That is a very useful accomplishment, and a very easy one, but people do not practise it much. In the every-day affairs of life it is more useful to reason forwards, and so the other comes to be neglected. There are fifty who can reason synthetically for one who can reason analytically." - Sherlock Holmes
Guest Ray Posted September 14, 2008 Posted September 14, 2008 Re: SteadyState and WDP Thanks Galen ... Actually - I have contacted them - Broderbund's response was short and sweet.... "The product that you are inquiring about is not a network version and is not supported to run in a network environment. Sincerely, Oscar Customer Service and Technical Support" The Type 2 Learn product has a network/site license version available - for another $800. Of course - we don't get any credit for what we have already purchased, since we've had it a year or so already. It's funny how so many great tools exist - but nearly all offer only a portion of the solution you need - any since they tend not to play well with others, you're left with no easy solution and a lot of frustration.... With unlimited financial resources, I'm sure this would be a snap - but for a small, private, 300 student school - these hurdles may just be a little too high to clear.... Thanks for your time Galen. Ray On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:21:58 -0400, "Galen" <galennews@gmail.com> wrote: >My reply is at the bottom of your sent message. > >In news:q3voc455o2337p183tppa12858fulbbiri@4ax.com, >Ray <ray_park@bellsouth.net> typed: > > >> I work in an elementary school and we are attempting to use >> SteadyState with Disk Protection enabled to protect the computers from >> the kids in the computer lab and Library. We have redirected the >> Desktop and My Documents folders to a network drive - but we have >> several applications that don't play nicely and store their data on >> the computer's hard drive and don't offer the option of changing the >> data location. >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions for some method of getting around >> this problem? If we can't find a solution, I'm afraid we're going to >> have to abort the whole process. >> >> 2 applications specifically are Type 2 Learn 3 by Sunburst Technology >> and KidPix by Broderbund/The Learning Company >> >> >> Thanks In Advance... >> Ray > >I hope that this doesn't come out sounding snarky. That is not my intent. > >The developers of those applications have probably heard of this issue in >the past and may well have a solution. Have you tried contacting them? > >The only rational methods I could think of changing this would be >programatically or via the use of either VMs or some sort of remote >application use such as roaming profiles in an AD. > >The above options, given the state of affairs in our current education >system, are likely to be cost prohibitive though the VMs might be more worth >while to look at these days with some recent changes but then you end up >with licensure issues for the virtual OSes. What's the timeline you're >working with?
Guest Galen Posted September 14, 2008 Posted September 14, 2008 Re: SteadyState and WDP My reply is at the bottom of your sent message. In news:5b4pc45rlgpqaeptopnj3382om057b1b1c@4ax.com, Ray <ray_park@bellsouth.net> typed: > Thanks Galen ... > Actually - I have contacted them - Broderbund's response was short and > sweet.... > > "The product that you are inquiring about is not a network version and > is not supported to run in a network environment. > Sincerely, > Oscar > Customer Service and Technical Support" > > > The Type 2 Learn product has a network/site license version available > - for another $800. Of course - we don't get any credit for what we > have already purchased, since we've had it a year or so already. > > It's funny how so many great tools exist - but nearly all offer only a > portion of the solution you need - any since they tend not to play > well with others, you're left with no easy solution and a lot of > frustration.... With unlimited financial resources, I'm sure this > would be a snap - but for a small, private, 300 student school - these > hurdles may just be a little too high to clear.... > > Thanks for your time Galen. > Ray I guess the next step is to revert to my original question at the end of it all and find out what time frame you're looking at. An AD, roaming profiles, and an incremental backup may be your alternative that is easier and less expensive. A VM with a common store and image files to do roll outs might do the job but be heavier iron than you're wanting to pay for. So, really, I think the best choice is to find out what you're time frame is and let's see what can be brainstormed. (By the way, I have a soft spot for schools which is why I answered.) -- Galen (Not Current MS-MVP) My Geek Site: http://kgiii.info Web Hosting: http://whathostingshould.be "In solving a problem of this sort, the grand thing is to be able to reason backwards. That is a very useful accomplishment, and a very easy one, but people do not practise it much. In the every-day affairs of life it is more useful to reason forwards, and so the other comes to be neglected. There are fifty who can reason synthetically for one who can reason analytically." - Sherlock Holmes
Guest Anteaus Posted September 14, 2008 Posted September 14, 2008 RE: SteadyState and WDP A lot depends where these apps store their data and settings. A tool like InstallRite (http://epsilonsquared.com) might help establish this if the supplier won't tell you. Given this knowledge, it might be possible to script a copying of the data to and from the network. Roaming profiles- the main issue here is the need to restrict users to tiny amounts of data. Though I intensely dislike doing maintenance on roaming-profile systems, as when you adjust a system-setting you are never exactly sure WHAT you are changing. It may affect only the Admin profile in which case you've achieved nothing. It may affect the local computer, regardless of user. It may affect only this user on this computer. Or, it may screw-up the settings for this user no matter which computer they use. (oops!) Unless you know exactly where the program stores its settings, you cannot predict the scope of any change you make, and this makes maintenance a nightmare. "Ray" wrote: > I work in an elementary school and we are attempting to use > SteadyState with Disk Protection enabled to protect the computers from > the kids in the computer lab and Library. We have redirected the > Desktop and My Documents folders to a network drive - but we have > several applications that don't play nicely and store their data on > the computer's hard drive and don't offer the option of changing the > data location. > > Does anyone have any suggestions for some method of getting around > this problem? If we can't find a solution, I'm afraid we're going to > have to abort the whole process. > > 2 applications specifically are Type 2 Learn 3 by Sunburst Technology > and KidPix by Broderbund/The Learning Company > > > Thanks In Advance... > Ray >
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted September 14, 2008 Posted September 14, 2008 Re: SteadyState and WDP Windows SteadyState Support Forum http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsToolsandUtilities/ShowForum.aspx?ForumID=1660&SiteID=69 SteadyState Handbook http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=d64af114-336c-4418-beb7-e074e813b498 SteadyState FAQ: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3d91c4b1-0978-44c2-9014-07e0932384e5 (Published 10 Sept-07) Tip: Download, read & fully understand the Handbook & FAQ before installing SteadyState! -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002 AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net DTS-L http://dts-l.net/ Ray wrote: > I work in an elementary school and we are attempting to use > SteadyState with Disk Protection enabled to protect the computers from > the kids in the computer lab and Library. We have redirected the > Desktop and My Documents folders to a network drive - but we have > several applications that don't play nicely and store their data on > the computer's hard drive and don't offer the option of changing the > data location. > > Does anyone have any suggestions for some method of getting around > this problem? If we can't find a solution, I'm afraid we're going to > have to abort the whole process. > > 2 applications specifically are Type 2 Learn 3 by Sunburst Technology > and KidPix by Broderbund/The Learning Company > > > Thanks In Advance... > Ray
Guest Ray Posted September 14, 2008 Posted September 14, 2008 Re: SteadyState and WDP We did have a basic understanding of SteadyState when we started - or at least we thought we did. The problem arose when we discovered after the fact that we had 2 applications that would not run from or allow us to save their data anywhere except on the C drive. My hope is that someone far more creative and intelligent than I, would have some clever method of getting around this problem. I have a printed copy of the SteadyState handbook on the desk next to me, and I haven't seen anything in it that tells me how to handle this issue. If I am missing it - please point it out to me... Thank you Ray On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:24:27 -0400, "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote: >Windows SteadyState Support Forum >http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsToolsandUtilities/ShowForum.aspx?ForumID=1660&SiteID=69 > >SteadyState Handbook >http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=d64af114-336c-4418-beb7-e074e813b498 > >SteadyState FAQ: >http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3d91c4b1-0978-44c2-9014-07e0932384e5 >(Published 10 Sept-07) > >Tip: Download, read & fully understand the Handbook & FAQ before installing >SteadyState!
Guest Ray Posted September 14, 2008 Posted September 14, 2008 Re: SteadyState and WDP On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:22:21 -0400, "Galen" <galennews@gmail.com> wrote: >My reply is at the bottom of your sent message. > >In news:5b4pc45rlgpqaeptopnj3382om057b1b1c@4ax.com, >Ray <ray_park@bellsouth.net> typed: > > >> Thanks Galen ... >> Actually - I have contacted them - Broderbund's response was short and >> sweet.... >> >> "The product that you are inquiring about is not a network version and >> is not supported to run in a network environment. >> Sincerely, >> Oscar >> Customer Service and Technical Support" >> >> >> The Type 2 Learn product has a network/site license version available >> - for another $800. Of course - we don't get any credit for what we >> have already purchased, since we've had it a year or so already. >> >> It's funny how so many great tools exist - but nearly all offer only a >> portion of the solution you need - any since they tend not to play >> well with others, you're left with no easy solution and a lot of >> frustration.... With unlimited financial resources, I'm sure this >> would be a snap - but for a small, private, 300 student school - these >> hurdles may just be a little too high to clear.... >> >> Thanks for your time Galen. >> Ray > >I guess the next step is to revert to my original question at the end of it >all and find out what time frame you're looking at. An AD, roaming profiles, >and an incremental backup may be your alternative that is easier and less >expensive. A VM with a common store and image files to do roll outs might do >the job but be heavier iron than you're wanting to pay for. So, really, I >think the best choice is to find out what you're time frame is and let's see >what can be brainstormed. > >(By the way, I have a soft spot for schools which is why I answered.) Hmmm... the time frame - Well - actually we discovered the problem by accident when we rebooted and realized we cleared the data the kids had entered that day. This was truly an oversight...so really - there is no time to brainstorm and figure it out. I was just hoping that someone else had let something fall through the cracks and had a ready-made solution. The KidPix program has it's data buried under the "Application Data" folder for "All Users". I consider that a fairly strange place for it. Tomorrow, I'm planning on digging through the Registry and seeing if there is any reference to that location.... Even true roaming profiles wouldn't solve this part of the problem. I've been considering a SynToy solution - but I'm not very comfortable with that.. I really appreciate your interest Galen. Thanks Again. Ray
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted September 15, 2008 Posted September 15, 2008 Re: SteadyState and WDP Galen's replies notwithstanding, you might be better of posting in the SteadyState forum. Ray wrote: > We did have a basic understanding of SteadyState when we started - or > at least we thought we did. The problem arose when we discovered after > the fact that we had 2 applications that would not run from or allow > us to save their data anywhere except on the C drive. My hope is that > someone far more creative and intelligent than I, would have some > clever method of getting around this problem. > > I have a printed copy of the SteadyState handbook on the desk next to > me, and I haven't seen anything in it that tells me how to handle this > issue. If I am missing it - please point it out to me... > > Thank you > Ray > > > > On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:24:27 -0400, "PA Bear [MS MVP]" > <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Windows SteadyState Support Forum >> http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsToolsandUtilities/ShowForum.aspx?ForumID=1660&SiteID=69 >> >> SteadyState Handbook >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=d64af114-336c-4418-beb7-e074e813b498 >> >> SteadyState FAQ: >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3d91c4b1-0978-44c2-9014-07e0932384e5 >> (Published 10 Sept-07) >> >> Tip: Download, read & fully understand the Handbook & FAQ before >> installing >> SteadyState!
Guest Galen Posted September 15, 2008 Posted September 15, 2008 Re: SteadyState and WDP My reply is at the bottom of your sent message. In news:OZ0R1isFJHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl, PA Bear [MS MVP] <PABearMVP@gmail.com> typed: > Galen's replies notwithstanding, you might be better of posting in the > SteadyState forum. I'd definately recommend that as well. My *impression* (from a bit of reading) is that you're looking at some potential for expensive coding OR an alternative layout system in your network. Roaming profiles are, in my opinion, the MOST likely opportunity to get what you want. Your goal is to use the software effectively. To use the software with a "Holy Crap" button should a student cause a malfunction or should an application fail. You are a private school. Err... I just gave some money to my old school about three months ago - they'll get to calling again when they have the first few hockey games won. In all honesty? I'd suggest you keep going here, doing what PA Bear suggested as well as setting up a time frame for the repair (it can NOT be immediate - as such you may have to opt to "work as is" if the work as is is effective 99% of the time) and contact your local community college or high school. As you *may* actively compete against the local high school you might not want to contact them. *random swear* sports trump *random swear* educational programs constantly. If you continue with the details when you've looked, continue with the information here and at their forums, you might get some activism and you may get some good responses. Just never forget the reason you do what you do. I am a parent and quasi professional. (I have yet to bother actually earning any sort of degree as I've yet to see a reason for it. Certifications and awards have served me just fine, thanks.) It irks me to no end that the people who TEACH people to be doctors and lawyers or to do math or to learn engineering or scientific methods are continually paid less than the people who work in the fields. In short, post there, post here, post everywhere. If you have a blog, regardless of the typical content, post there. If you have a local community television show, ask there... I guess it is my soft spot for education speaking but, really, keep asking. Unfortunately with roaming profiles with 300 kids you're looking at expenses you can't likely afford. Heck, the way things were you couldn't afford. The way things can be with custom coding you can't really afford. I'd personally recommend an Active Directory, roaming profiles of course, and a centralized server to manage it all with an immediate (nearly) base metal restore, incremental options for restoration, and a storage array that was speedy enough to keep up. When the kids are gone you can run all the scripts required to clean out the silliness. -- Galen (Not Current MS-MVP) My Geek Site: http://kgiii.info Web Hosting: http://whathostingshould.be "In solving a problem of this sort, the grand thing is to be able to reason backwards. That is a very useful accomplishment, and a very easy one, but people do not practise it much. In the every-day affairs of life it is more useful to reason forwards, and so the other comes to be neglected. There are fifty who can reason synthetically for one who can reason analytically." - Sherlock Holmes
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