Guest Emrys Davies Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the former but would someone put me out of my misery? Thanks, Emrys Davies.
Guest philo Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Start menu "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... > I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. > > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the > former but would someone put me out of my misery? > > Thanks, > Emrys Davies. > > The start button is really nothing but a shortcut to all (or most) of your applications & Windows components
Guest Bill Blanton Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Start menu "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... >I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. > > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the > former but would someone put me out of my misery? The Window's "shell" is Explorer.exe. If you change the shell in system.ini, then you get no start menu. You also get no taskbar. It could be that it is a menu item on the taskbar, though I don't know that as a fact.
Guest Emrys Davies Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Start menu "Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message news:%23hwAdjhMJHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... > >I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. > > > > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have > > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good > > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of > > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the > > former but would someone put me out of my misery? > > The Window's "shell" is Explorer.exe. If you change the shell in system.ini, > then you get no start menu. > > You also get no taskbar. It could be that it is a menu item on the taskbar, > though I don't know that as a fact. Thanks for that Bill. Now I know. Incidentaly, my initial post did show on my compter, but that happens from time to time and I have to watch closely, as in this case, until someone reponds to it. I think that that happens quite often on Usenet. Thanks again. Emrys Davies
Guest Emrys Davies Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Start menu "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message news:%23cEoobhMJHA.3744@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message > news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... > > I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. > > > > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have > > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good > > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of > > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the > > former but would someone put me out of my misery? > > > > Thanks, > > Emrys Davies. > > > > > > > The start button is really nothing but a shortcut > to all (or most) of your applications & Windows components Thanks a lot Philo. Regards, Emrys Davies.
Guest Bill Blanton Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Start menu "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message news:48fb83f8_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... > "Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message > news:%23hwAdjhMJHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message > news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... >> >I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. >> > >> > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I > have >> > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good >> > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part > of >> > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is > the >> > former but would someone put me out of my misery? >> >> The Window's "shell" is Explorer.exe. If you change the shell in > system.ini, >> then you get no start menu. >> >> You also get no taskbar. It could be that it is a menu item on the > taskbar, >> though I don't know that as a fact. > > Thanks for that Bill. Now I know. Incidentaly, my initial post did > show on my compter, but that happens from time to time and I have to > watch closely, as in this case, until someone reponds to it. I think > that that happens quite often on Usenet. That happens, though I don't see it much here. Are you posting directly to the MS servers? > Thanks again. YW.
Guest Don Phillipson Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Start menu "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... > I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. > > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the > former but would someone put me out of my misery? On Win98 the Start menu is just a folder like other folders (i.e. not even a system folder) stored at c:\windows\start menu and containing by default subfolders \ accessories and \ programs each containing short cuts (LNK files) to EXEcutable apps., but we can cut from and paste to it however we wish. E.g. I have mine set up with c:\windows\start menu containing half a dozen apps I use most often and \ accessories and \ programs but \ programs contains only 14 subfolders, most of my own creation eg. Graphics (containing Photoshop, Broderbund Print Shop, MSPaint) Hardware (backup utilities and drivers for MB, mouse, TV card etc.) Money (Quicken accounting, income tax etc.) i.e. I have junked perhaps 20-odd start / programs items that were created when the apps were installed, and regrouped under logical headings only those l am likely to use. (My wife is a naive user but my logical arrangement means she need not remember any special names.) -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
Guest FromTheRafters Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Start menu It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe, or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and is called a "shell" for the underlying OS. I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued- and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it is not a shell. I don't have a Win9x machine anymore, but I remember using the task manager to stop execution of programs and IIRC you can stop the one responsible for the start button and you get a animated arrow travelling from right to left telling you how to click here to start - and when you do you get the button back. I suspect they are all a part of the explorer.exe program. "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... >I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. > > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the > former but would someone put me out of my misery? > > Thanks, > Emrys Davies. > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Start menu FromTheRafters wrote: > It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part > of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like > in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe, > or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and > is called a "shell" for the underlying OS. > > I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued- > and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it > is not a shell. Just because it is not a shell doesn't necessarily make it (or anything) "part of the operating system", per se. In fact, most programs are not "part of the operating system", per se. They "use" services provided by the operating system, however. > I don't have a Win9x machine anymore, but I remember using > the task manager to stop execution of programs and IIRC you > can stop the one responsible for the start button and you get > a animated arrow travelling from right to left telling you how to > click here to start - and when you do you get the button back. > > I suspect they are all a part of the explorer.exe program. > > "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message > news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... >> I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. >> >> I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have >> read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good >> articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of >> Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the >> former but would someone put me out of my misery? >> >> Thanks, >> Emrys Davies.
Guest FromTheRafters Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Start menu "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:eNtdBjjMJHA.5648@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > FromTheRafters wrote: >> It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part >> of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like >> in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe, >> or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and >> is called a "shell" for the underlying OS. >> >> I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued- >> and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it >> is not a shell. > > Just because it is not a shell doesn't necessarily make it (or anything) > "part of the operating system", per se. In fact, most programs are not > "part of the operating system", per se. They "use" services provided by > the operating system, however. Let me rephrase I can eliminate OE from the mix because it is not a shell. ....although it could be argued it is part of the OS I eliminate it from the mix because it does not provide the things that a shell does provide to the user, such as file system browsing and access to the command line or a 'run' box etc. Whether or not something is or is not a part of the OS was not a call I was willing to make. The OP listed the OS as one of the programs that might be responsible for the start button - of course it is - especially since the OS is responsible for all the other programs running on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system
Guest Emrys Davies Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Start menu "Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message news:%23OZUj%23hMJHA.4456@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message news:48fb83f8_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... > > "Bill Blanton" <bblanton@REMOVEmagicnet.net> wrote in message > > news:%23hwAdjhMJHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > >> "Emrys Davies" <emrysdavies@lineone.net> wrote in message > > news:48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com... > >> >I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. > >> > > >> > I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I > > have > >> > read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good > >> > articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part > > of > >> > Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is > > the > >> > former but would someone put me out of my misery? > >> > >> The Window's "shell" is Explorer.exe. If you change the shell in > > system.ini, > >> then you get no start menu. > >> > >> You also get no taskbar. It could be that it is a menu item on the > > taskbar, > >> though I don't know that as a fact. > > > > Thanks for that Bill. Now I know. Incidentaly, my initial post did > > show on my compter, but that happens from time to time and I have to > > watch closely, as in this case, until someone reponds to it. I think > > that that happens quite often on Usenet. > > That happens, though I don't see it much here. Are you posting directly > to the MS servers? > > > Thanks again. Don't know to whom I am posting except that it is to Usenet. Regards, Emrys Davies.
Guest Bill in Co. Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Start menu FromTheRafters wrote: > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:eNtdBjjMJHA.5648@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> FromTheRafters wrote: >>> It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part >>> of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like >>> in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe, >>> or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and >>> is called a "shell" for the underlying OS. >>> >>> I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued- >>> and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it >>> is not a shell. >> >> Just because it is not a shell doesn't necessarily make it (or anything) >> "part of the operating system", per se. In fact, most programs are not >> "part of the operating system", per se. They "use" services provided by >> the operating system, however. > > Let me rephrase > > I can eliminate OE from the mix because it is not a shell. > > ...although it could be argued it is part of the OS > > I eliminate it from the mix because it does not provide the things > that a shell does provide to the user, such as file system browsing > and access to the command line or a 'run' box etc. Whether or > not something is or is not a part of the OS was not a call I was > willing to make. I'll make that call (that OE is not "part of the operating system, per se), for the reason I mentioned. No problemo. :-) Now, for something like Windows Explorer, that might be a different story. Might, as in that might be a bit debateable. But something like the booting up routines, and the basic core *fundamental* system services of an operating system, wouldn't be. > The OP listed the OS as one of the programs > that might be responsible for the start button - of course it is - > especially since the OS is responsible for all the other programs > running on it. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system
Guest Jeff Richards Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Start menu It's not 'nothing but a shortcut'. It's a graphical element with its own functionality, which includes the ability to display a hierarchy of menu choices, to consider the current user settings when displaying choices, to be repositioned, to directly access routines that switch users or shut the machine down, etc. It is part of Explorer. -- Jeff Richards MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User) "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message news:%23cEoobhMJHA.3744@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > snip < > > > The start button is really nothing but a shortcut > to all (or most) of your applications & Windows components
Guest FromTheRafters Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Start menu "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:uWuLYVlMJHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > FromTheRafters wrote: >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:eNtdBjjMJHA.5648@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> FromTheRafters wrote: >>>> It's not too clear a line between what is and what is not a part >>>> of an OS. The UI (user interface) can be a command line like >>>> in DOS or graphical (GUI) like explorer.exe, or progman.exe, >>>> or winfile.exe (I suppose dosshell.exe is kinda graphical) and >>>> is called a "shell" for the underlying OS. >>>> >>>> I can eliminate OE from the mix (although it could be argued- >>>> and has been argued- that *it* is a part of the OS) because it >>>> is not a shell. >>> >>> Just because it is not a shell doesn't necessarily make it (or anything) >>> "part of the operating system", per se. In fact, most programs are >>> not >>> "part of the operating system", per se. They "use" services provided by >>> the operating system, however. >> >> Let me rephrase >> >> I can eliminate OE from the mix because it is not a shell. >> >> ...although it could be argued it is part of the OS >> >> I eliminate it from the mix because it does not provide the things >> that a shell does provide to the user, such as file system browsing >> and access to the command line or a 'run' box etc. Whether or >> not something is or is not a part of the OS was not a call I was >> willing to make. > > I'll make that call (that OE is not "part of the operating system, per > se), for the reason I mentioned. No problemo. :-) > > Now, for something like Windows Explorer, that might be a different story. > Might, as in that might be a bit debateable. But something like the > booting up routines, and the basic core *fundamental* system services of > an operating system, wouldn't be. I agree. I didn't want to make that call because I didn't want to argue the point. Some people consider notepad to be part of the OS. The URL I posted shows how even the UI may or may not be considered a part of the OS depending on how it is implemented. A main purpose of an OS for a general purpose computer is that is helps facilitate the running of programs of the users choice. So an editor like edit.com may be considered a part of the OS while notepad.exe may not.
Guest Emrys Davies Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Start menu "Jeff Richards" <JRichards@msn.com.au> wrote in message news:%23%23gzQVmMJHA.728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > It's not 'nothing but a shortcut'. It's a graphical element with its own > functionality, which includes the ability to display a hierarchy of menu > choices, to consider the current user settings when displaying choices, to > be repositioned, to directly access routines that switch users or shut the > machine down, etc. It is part of Explorer. > -- > Jeff Richards > MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User) > "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:%23cEoobhMJHA.3744@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > > > snip < > > > > > > The start button is really nothing but a shortcut > > to all (or most) of your applications & Windows components Thanks everyone. Very enlightening. Regards,Emrys Davies.
Guest J. P. Gilliver (John) Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 Re: Start menu In message <48fb4b1c$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, Emrys Davies <emrysdavies@lineone.net> writes >I have Win98 SE, OE6 and IE6. > >I am curious to know of which system the 'Start' menu is a part. I have >read lots about it on Google and although there are lots of good >articles about it and its components no one says whether it is part of >Windows, Windows Explorer or Outlook Express. I suspect that it is the >former but would someone put me out of my misery? [] It's not part of Internet Explorer (the web browser), as it remains if you (completely) remove IE. It's not part of Outlook Express (the email client), for a similar reason. Windows Explorer (the file manager), as opposed to Internet Explorer, is arguably more part of the operating system than IE and OE. Many people confuse Internet Explorer and Windows Explorer, due to the similar names. Just to add to the confusion, the main executable that is running whenever Windows is running is called explorer.exe. The start menu - by which I assume you mean that which pops up when you click the Start button, or press the Windows key on the keyboard - will pop up without IE or OE being present. As another has said, what actually is within the Start menu as it pops up is just a folder within the Windows folder (actually a folder tree). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. ** "Bother,"saidPoohwhenhisspacebarrefusedtowork.
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