Guest Anwar Mahmood Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Hi All, Hope someone can help with a basic question. It's probably been covered many times, but I can't find anything substantial or definitive... Looking at Terminal Services on Windows Server 2003/Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 for the first time. I'm uncertain of the correct sequence of actions to build a farm. There will be multiple servers, but only running Office and one or two other (low intensity) applications. The most logical sequence to *me* is - establish "infrastructure" (licensing, data store, etc) - install Windows Server 2003 SP2 - install and customise the applications - test the applications (eg with a standard user account using Remote Administration) Once all the glitches and refinements have been identified, - clone the server using WDS and SYSPREP - on the imaged servers, - join the domain - install Terminal Services/Citrix Presentation Server - publish the applications/desktop Our organisation tends to refresh the desktop image annually (bunching together all the software updates into a new image revision). My sequence above would allow us to do this for our Terminal Services/ Citrix environment in a similar way (at the moment, it's extremely difficult to make ANY change to the servers!) Other guidance on the Internet suggests - install Windows Server 2003 SP2 - patch - install Terminal Services/(Citrix Presentation Server?) - install applications (after switching to install mode) - test the applications - clone (if you dare!) - either package up the applications and distribute across the farm, or install manually My approach seems far, far simpler; install once, clone, replicate with 100% fidelity. Some of you will no doubt be bewildered by the breathtaking level of ignorance I'm showing... I'd love some URLs on what I SHOULD be doing, and WHY (preferably according to Microsoft and Citrix) Kind regards, Anwar
Guest Anwar Mahmood Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Re: Terminal Services Basics Hi All, Found this Microsoft KB article; Terminal Server Commands CHANGE http://support.microsoft.com/kb/186504/EN-US/ This indicates the change install command copies user registry settings to a branch of HKLM and INI settings from user to the system, so when a new user runs an application (who didn't install it) that depends on registry and INI settings, Windows looks for them it will look in the user's profile, then in the system. This sounds quite valid, but I'm not entirely convinced it's absolutely necessary; these can be identified in the install/testing phase, and added to the default user profile. After all, something like this is surely necessary *ANYWAY* because not all INI files and registry values will be created at install time. Kind regards, Anwar
Guest Vera Noest [MVP] Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Re: Terminal Services Basics Anwar, your approach would be much simpler, if it would work. But unfortunately, it won't. You *must* install TS / Citrix first and then the applications, because you have to put the server into "install mode" before installing applications, and install mode is only available after you have installed TS. You will in fgact get a warning when you install TS, that all previously installed applications will stop functioning and that you will have to re-install them after installing TS. No this is not 100% true for all applications (for example, if you have a backupclient installed on the server it will probably continue to work), but no application which is installed before you install TS will have multi-user functionality. _________________________________________________________ Vera Noest MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net *----------- Please reply in newsgroup -------------* Anwar Mahmood <amahmood5@uclan.ac.uk> wrote on 31 okt 2008: > Hi All, > > Hope someone can help with a basic question. It's probably been > covered many times, but I can't find anything substantial or > definitive... > > Looking at Terminal Services on Windows Server 2003/Citrix > Presentation Server 4.5 for the first time. I'm uncertain of > the correct sequence of actions to build a farm. > > There will be multiple servers, but only running Office and one > or two other (low intensity) applications. > > The most logical sequence to *me* is > > - establish "infrastructure" (licensing, data store, etc) > - install Windows Server 2003 SP2 > - install and customise the applications > - test the applications (eg with a standard user account using > Remote > Administration) > > Once all the glitches and refinements have been identified, > - clone the server using WDS and SYSPREP > - on the imaged servers, > - join the domain > - install Terminal Services/Citrix Presentation Server > - publish the applications/desktop > > Our organisation tends to refresh the desktop image annually > (bunching together all the software updates into a new image > revision). My sequence above would allow us to do this for our > Terminal Services/ Citrix environment in a similar way (at the > moment, it's extremely difficult to make ANY change to the > servers!) > > Other guidance on the Internet suggests > - install Windows Server 2003 SP2 > - patch > - install Terminal Services/(Citrix Presentation Server?) > - install applications (after switching to install mode) > - test the applications > - clone (if you dare!) > - either package up the applications and distribute across the > farm, > or install manually > > My approach seems far, far simpler; install once, clone, > replicate with 100% fidelity. > > Some of you will no doubt be bewildered by the breathtaking > level of ignorance I'm showing... I'd love some URLs on what I > SHOULD be doing, and WHY (preferably according to Microsoft and > Citrix) > > Kind regards, > > Anwar
Guest Vera Noest [MVP] Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Re: Terminal Services Basics I think that you are creating a lot of unnecessary problems for yourself by trying to do things opposite as they are designed to work. Yes, you can monitor all changes to the file system and registry during installation, but simply adding them to the default user profile will only fix it for new users. You'll have to import them into existing user profiles as well. And doing so in a logon script has it's problems to, because you also need to record the timestamp (you don't want to import the same setting twice and override user-made changes with your second import). The mechanism which takes care of all these details by design is "install mode", and I wouldn't want to re-invent it with my own methods. But I'm also sure that it is possible to do it your way, given enough time and perseverance. _________________________________________________________ Vera Noest MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net *----------- Please reply in newsgroup -------------* Anwar Mahmood <amahmood5@uclan.ac.uk> wrote on 31 okt 2008: > Hi All, > > Found this Microsoft KB article; > > Terminal Server Commands CHANGE > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/186504/EN-US/ > > This indicates the change install command copies user registry > settings to a branch of HKLM and INI settings from user to the > system, so when a new user runs an application (who didn't > install it) that depends on registry and INI settings, Windows > looks for them it will look in the user's profile, then in the > system. > > This sounds quite valid, but I'm not entirely convinced it's > absolutely necessary; these can be identified in the > install/testing phase, and added to the default user profile. > After all, something like this is surely necessary *ANYWAY* > because not all INI files and registry values will be created at > install time. > > Kind regards, > > Anwar
Guest Jeff Pitsch Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Re: Terminal Services Basics I'm failing to see how installing apps before TS is better and easier than after? How exactly how you going to test the applications to make sure they work properly in a multiuser environment before hand? It simply won't work. And I have to agree with Vera, why completely recreate the wheel? yes you could do it your way but how are you going to adjust the registry properly for ini files and then you have to manually copy them to the windows directory in the users home directory...... Seems a lot of work for absolutely no reason whatsoever. maybe you could post why you think putting applications on before TS is better than after, maybe that would give us something to work with. Jeff Pitsch Microsoft MVP - Terminal Services Vera Noest [MVP] wrote: > I think that you are creating a lot of unnecessary problems for > yourself by trying to do things opposite as they are designed to > work. > Yes, you can monitor all changes to the file system and registry > during installation, but simply adding them to the default user > profile will only fix it for new users. You'll have to import them > into existing user profiles as well. > And doing so in a logon script has it's problems to, because you > also need to record the timestamp (you don't want to import the > same setting twice and override user-made changes with your second > import). > The mechanism which takes care of all these details by design is > "install mode", and I wouldn't want to re-invent it with my own > methods. But I'm also sure that it is possible to do it your way, > given enough time and perseverance. > _________________________________________________________ > Vera Noest > MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server > TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net > *----------- Please reply in newsgroup -------------* > > Anwar Mahmood <amahmood5@uclan.ac.uk> wrote on 31 okt 2008: > >> Hi All, >> >> Found this Microsoft KB article; >> >> Terminal Server Commands CHANGE >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/186504/EN-US/ >> >> This indicates the change install command copies user registry >> settings to a branch of HKLM and INI settings from user to the >> system, so when a new user runs an application (who didn't >> install it) that depends on registry and INI settings, Windows >> looks for them it will look in the user's profile, then in the >> system. >> >> This sounds quite valid, but I'm not entirely convinced it's >> absolutely necessary; these can be identified in the >> install/testing phase, and added to the default user profile. >> After all, something like this is surely necessary *ANYWAY* >> because not all INI files and registry values will be created at >> install time. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Anwar
Guest Anwar Mahmood Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Re: Terminal Services Basics Thanks to Jeff and Vera for taking the time to reply. I'll certainly take this feedback on board. The approach I mentioned was, if you like, an "outsider's" perspective. It is also to give us some greater flexibililty; a new server could be built from the "ground up" in a non-TS focussed way, then added to the farm. (Historically, we've had immense difficulty even *patching* stuff, so my approach would be a huge step forward) Have a great weekend! Anwar
Guest Jeff Pitsch Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Re: Terminal Services Basics I don't understand what you mean. Why would you build any other server with desktop applications? How are you gaining flexibility? Jeff Pitsch Microsoft MVP - Terminal Services Anwar Mahmood wrote: > Thanks to Jeff and Vera for taking the time to reply. > > I'll certainly take this feedback on board. The approach I mentioned > was, if you like, an "outsider's" perspective. It is also to give us > some greater flexibililty; a new server could be built from the > "ground up" in a non-TS focussed way, then added to the farm. > (Historically, we've had immense difficulty even *patching* stuff, so > my approach would be a huge step forward) > > Have a great weekend! > > Anwar
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