[Solved] PC Crashing

[BorderCollieSam]

Hi Guys,

 

I have an issue with my PC, its quite long winded but will try to cut to the chase.

 

I have a Dell XPS420 loaded with Vista, its been working fine for the last 4 years i've had it, however my 2 daughters play on a web game called Fresh Hotel, and i have my reservations about this site, and a few months ago checked my AVG Antivirus and it had detected a Trojan Horse on one of its scans and moved it to the Virus Vault.

 

No problems were evident at the time, everything was still working well.

 

Until last week, when booting up, presented with the Vista LogOn Screen displaying the 4 x Account Usernames, however when you left clicked on the username, it allowed you to type a few characters of the password in and then froze and had to be rebooted.

 

Rebooted, same thing again.

 

Several attempted later, it wouldn't even allow you to left click the item, you could move the arrow around the screen, but not left click the account name.

 

I then rebooted again, left it on the logon screen, and after a few minutes ALL of the account names and pictures/icons dissapeared completely, i was just left with a blank Windows Login Screen.

 

I thought it might be a virus from the Hotel Fresh game that my kids play on line, so i booted into SafeMode to transfer all my important files i.e., family photos etc., over to my external hard drive (the last back up in did was June), it allowed me to click the account name, input the password (in SafeMode), i entered explorer and started shifting the files accross, however after about 8.5 minutes the screen went completely black, the light started to flash on the monitor power button like it does when not receiving a video input, and a fan started spinning really quickly inside the PC. I opened up the PC and found the fan on top of the NVidea Graphics card (Geforce 8600 GTS) spinning quite fast, however when i rebooted the PC it was fine, until it crashed again and the fan started spinning quickly again.

 

I then loged back on in SafeMode and started shifting sections of my family photos over at a time, as much as i could get done in 8 minutes at a time, however the more times it crashed, the less time it would allow me back in, for example the first few attempts i had around 8 minutes a couple of times, then it went eventually down to 30 seconds each time.

 

I then thought i would run diagnostics in the Boot Menu, however it got as far as checking the CPU's and crashed then as well, and this was without even running Windows? Therefore thought i might not be a virus in Windows afterall?

 

I then thought it was something to do with the Graphics Card, which may explain why i couldn't click on the icons on he logon screen,why they dissapeared completely from the screen, and why the screen went black/blank but there was still power to the PC, and of course why the graphics card fan was spinning.

 

However, yesterday i started up the PC from fresh/cold for the first time that day, and i had the conservatory doors wide open and it was only around 11degrees here in the UK, and i had the side panel off of the PC, and i had it on for over half an hour with no problems (in SafeMode whilst transferring files over to the External Hard Drive).

 

I'm now beginning to things it might be the Power Supply? The Fan doesn't seem to be spinning in the Power Supply anymore, throughout the last few summers (the PC lives in the Conservatory and gets VERY hot) we've come home from work and the fan is absolutely screaming, but the only noise from the PC now is the graphics card fan......

 

Do you think it sounds like the Fan on the Power Supply has failed due to the constant/severe spinning due to it being in the Conservatory and this is causing the PC to overhead and trip out?

 

Is there a way i can test the power supply to see if the fan does work but just isn't at the moment due to it not being hot?

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention since the above i have run 'RootKill' which didn't find anything, and i then managed to have the PC running long enough with the Conservatory door open and the side of the machine off to reformat the Hard Drive, however several minutes after login on it crashed, it had been on for about 1.5 hours at this time with the conservatory doors open and the side panel of the unit off.

 

Therefore can't be a virus if i've reformatted the hard drive can it?

Edited October 14, 2012 by BorderCollieSam

[Armageddon]

Hi Sam and welcome to ExTS it certainly does sound as it may be the PSU I'd like you to supply us with tempratures of your pc you can do this using speccy could you post two lots of temps please one just after boot and one whilst watching a youtube video this will tell us how hot the pc is getting under load , we can then investigate further.

 

Hope this helps

 

Dave

[BeeCeeBee]

Frankly despite the long and thorough explanation to me it looks like something is overheating perhaps the CPU. Download and run the free version of Speccy from piriform found here: http://www.piriform.com/speccy/download

 

Run the program on startup and run it again as you are using the machine and let us know what it is telling you about temps. Have you given it a cleanout lately and have you ever removed the CPU and/or its heatsink?

[Plastic Nev]

In agreement with both Armageddon and Beeceebee here as it does sound like an overheating issue. However considering the power supply fan isn't running, that needs to be rectified first, then any other issues sorted afterwards. Also are you sure it is the power supply fan and not the fan on the main CPU or even a case fan?

 

Though the power supply fan may be replaceable, it is a job for a technician due to the high voltage mains power and not to be attempted unless qualified.

Because of the cost to do that, it is simpler and possibly even cheaper to replace the power supply with a new one of similar or higher rating.

 

Being a Dell machine, we could do with the information that should be on the power supply label before recommending which type or where to get one from, as Dell quite often fitted none standard parts.

It may just be a standard ATX type, but unless we know what is on that label we can't be sure.

 

Also, until that has been sorted please try not to use it any more as damage from the overheating could occur.

 

Nev.

[BorderCollieSam]

Thank you all for your replies.

 

I have booted the PC up this evening, however only run it for 10 minutes exactly.

 

Within that 10 minutes, here are screenshots of the data as requested.

 

Screen Shot 1 - Speccy Run Immediately as soon as it booted up (first time today its been switched on).

 

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd355/soni007_photo/ConservatoryPC.jpg

 

Screen Shot 2 - Taken a few seconds after running a You Tube Video.

 

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd355/soni007_photo/ConservatoryPC2.jpg

 

Screen Shot 3 - Taken a few minutes after running You Tube Video

 

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd355/soni007_photo/ConservatoryPC3.jpg

 

Screen Shot 4 - Taken a few more minutes after running You Tube Video

 

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd355/soni007_photo/ConservatoryPC4.jpg

 

Screen Shot 5 - Taken a few minutes after running '2 x You Tube Videos at the same time'.

 

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd355/soni007_photo/ConservatoryPC5.jpg

 

Just a reference point, i ran it on my spare 10 year old Packard Bell (replaced the power supply in this one a few years ago and the fan is always running) (which i'm using to type this thread) and its showed the following.

 

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd355/soni007_photo/DiningRoomPC.jpg

[BorderCollieSam]

EDIT - It doesn't show above, however one of the Speecies reported 54 degrees when it was running 2 x You Tube Videos! Is this ok?

 

Also, the data from the label on the Power Supply states the following:-

 

Dell P/No KH624

Model No. L375P-00

Output. 375W

Input. 100-120V/9A 50-60Hz

Output. +5V/22A Max

12V/1AMax

Edited October 14, 2012 by BorderCollieSam

[KenB]

Hi,

 

Those temperatures are OK.

 

If it is 4 years old - how much dust is there in the case ?

Pay particular attention to the vents and the fans.

 

By the way - were those temps with the side panel on or off ?

If off we need temps with the panel on.

 

Also - it would be good if you could run the machine for longer so that the temperatures have time to build to their maximum.

 

EDIT:

Just read this again:

The Fan doesn't seem to be spinning in the Power Supply anymore,

This is the most likely cause of your problem.

 

Do you have another PSU that you could try ? ( it is easier to swap them than test them :) )

[BorderCollieSam]

Hi Ken and All,

 

I was intending on booting up the PC for 30 minutes to an hour this morning to test the temperature over a longer period as suggested.

 

I booted up, put You Tube on, and it was on for about 20 minutes and then i heard the 'click' noise, all of the screen went black again, the Graphics Card fan started spinning again, however one thing was evident 'this time' that wasn't before.

 

Because i had You Tube running i had music playing, therefore this time when the screen went black and it crashed like the PC went off (although there was lighting on the front of the PC still and the Graphics Card fan was spinning) this time because i had a You Tube Vid running i was still able to hear the music playing therefore the PC isn't crashing is it? Its just the picture? Therefore is it the Graphics Card? Once i realised it had crashed, the music was still playing, and the Graphics Card fan was left spinning and the power light on the front of the PC was still on, i held the power button in to switch it off and could hear the Windows 'ping' noise that it does when shutting down....

 

Do you therefore reckon its the Graphics Card?

[BorderCollieSam]

Also forgot to mention a few minutes before it crashed it was showing the temperature as mid 50's as I had Speccy open to keep an eye on the temperature.....

[Armageddon]

Hi Sam do you have on board graphics as well as a card , if so you could try removing the card and using the onboard see if your system shuts itself down then

[KenB]

If the 50 degrees is related to the Video Card then this is reading OK.

However, as Armageddon has suggested - run on the on-board video ( if you have one )

 

I still have doubts re. the PSU if the fan isn't spinning.

[BorderCollieSam]

Hi Guys thank you for your interest in helping me, much appreciated :)

 

How can I find out if I have on board graphics card as well as the NVidea, in the system bios?

[KenB]

Take a look at the back of the machine.

You will have two VGA connections if you have on-board.

The spare one looks like this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]646.vB5-legacyid=1664[/ATTACH]

[BorderCollieSam]

Hi Ken,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I've had a look and it doesn't look like i had one?

 

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd355/soni007_photo/pcrear2.jpg

[KenB]

Sorry - no on-board connection.

You have 2 DVI connections from the one card ( bottom pic )

 

If you can borrow a video card this would help.

Alternatively you could buy an inexpensive one to try.

 

NOTE:

I have removed the bottom pic.

I could read the product code off the Microsoft label quite clearly - if I could ....others could.

You could find that your product code would have ended up all over the net :)

[BorderCollieSam]

Cheers Ken,

 

From the information provided, what do you personally think is the problem?

 

Could it still be a virus if I've reformatted the hard drive?

 

Is there a way to try and force the power supply fan to come on? We used to hear it race away in the summer bit it doesn't sound like it comes on anymore, only the graphics card fan spins.

 

Is it now just a process of elimination by buying a new PSU, then if that doesn't work a new graphics card?

[KenB]

You could give a local tech ( small firm NOT PC World or similar ) a ring and ask if they can test your PSU / Video Card.

Ask how much they charge.

This will identify which ( if any ) of the two is at fault.

It shouldn't cost too much.

 

I don't think it is a virus.

[BorderCollieSam]

Update:

 

I sorted it in the end, i realised the Power Supply fan is in fact working because i could feel it gently blowing out, but it isn’t noisy like my old 10 year old PC so sounds like its not spinning.

 

I cleaned the inside out with compressed air, it was in a terrible state, all the vents on the rear and front were covered in a carpet of fluff. I thought this might be what was causing it to crash.

However, following the clean, i booted it up, and it still crashed, the picture went off, and the graphics card fan span like mad again.

 

I then removed the graphics card, found a load of fluff between the graphics card fan and the actual card, i therefore blew this through as well, put it all back together, but it still crashed....

 

I then realised that when i removed the card, it was boiling hot and i mean hot!

So, when it still crashed again, i felt it, and it almost burned my fingers it was so hot.

 

I then checked Speccy, but it didn’t have a temperature for the card, only the CPU....

 

So i went on to the NVIDIA website, used the automatic identification tool (even though i already knew it was the 8600GTS and it confirmed that, and identified the driver that had only been updated this month, i downloaded that, restarted the computer, and as soon as it restarted the fan ran quicker that it did prior to the update on boot up, and this time Speccy was actually showing the temperature for it, and something else struck my eye, i couldn’t remember Speccy showing the graphics card before as a GTS 8600GTS, so checked Speccy report that i printed, and it actually had the Graphics Card listed as 14MB Standard VGA Graphics Adaptor (Nvidia), but was now showing as a 8600GTS!!

 

So far knock on wood its been about 3-4 days on constant and no crashed J

 

How could the Graphics Card driver have changed, could it have been a virus that caused this?

[Plastic Nev]

Hi, glad you got there in the end, the probable cause for the old driver being there may be because you did do a complete reformat, Windows will have put its own drivers in, which may well have been well out of date for that card.

 

Also, now we know you did find a lot of fluff and dirt or dust, that may have been the original cause of the problem in the first place.

 

At least between us we got there in the end and hopefully all will be OK.

 

Nev.

[BorderCollieSam]

Cheers Nev,

 

On a seperate note, and i suppose i should post in the relevant section, but i need to implement a decent back up facility.

 

I've got 150GB on my hard drive to back up, and have been in the past using an external hard drive and just copying everything over each time, and deleting the previous, but this takes ages and some of the files haven't actually changed from the previous backup.

 

So, for example, i may have a folder entitled Backup010112, then the next time i'll create another entitled Backup010212 etc., etc., and delete the previous one once the new one has completed.

 

Is there any other quicker ways?

 

I understand proper back up software can tell which files haven't changed and only copy accross the new files thus saving time?

 

Is there any freeware ones you are aware of?

[KenB]

Hi

 

Good to hear that you are up-and-running again.

A real community effort on this one :)

 

Could you post the new question in the appropriate thread please?

It will help others who are looking for advice on similar issues :)