[Solved] Copy an old disk to a new one

[mij]

I have downloaded crystal info (I think that is what it's called) which tells me this HDD is in 'caution' status. It should be replaced ASAP. Thinking about it my son passed it across to me about 4/5 years ago - and he must have had it four years or more. It has totaled some 21000 hours.

Should I get a new HDD a solid state hard drive or perhaps a new computer is warranted? I have replaced the power supply (about three years ago) and the cd unit. I did take it to bits dusted it and put it all back together gradually, listening for POST coding after each module was added.

I am lost without this thing.

Why would I want to copy the old disk? Because I cannot find my recent purchase of windows 7 premium.

jim

[Plastic Nev]

Hi Jim, you will first need an external hard drive, or a caddy/enclosure or USB adapter for the new drive you intend to use to replace the old one.

Depending on which you have the methods are slightly different. If you have neither, a caddy/enclosure or adapter is perhaps the best and quickest, and also cheapest.

Next is to download and install an imaging program, there are a few about that are free or at least free versions of pro paid for.

 

I use one called Macrium Reflect plus an external hard drive for major backup purposes.

 

What these programs do is to make a complete and exact copy of whatever is stored on your internal hard drive, which is then transferred to an external hard drive. That copy can then be used to re-install everything on to the internal hard drive should there be any major problem, being the normal uses.

 

You already have the major problem looming up in the near future of course so a complete image of the existing hard drive is getting to be a bit of an urgent thing.

 

Using Macrium, you can do quite a bit but in your case we need to look at two alternatives.

If you already have a fairly large external hard drive that has enough space to accommodate the contents of the internal drive, then a full image is the way to go. You then fit the replacement drive and copy the image back on to the new drive.

 

The second option is to obtain your new replacement drive and a caddy/enclosure or adapter, then use Macrium to clone the existing hard drive on to the new drive while it is in the enclosure. Simply take it out of the enclosure and fit into the computer.

 

For information regarding Macrium Reflect, KenB wrote a very good tutorial along with a little help from myself and you can find it here=

 

click here

 

Don't hesitate to ask if something isn't clear Jim.

 

Nev.

[mij]

Thanks Nev for your reply. That has given me a lot to think about but puts what I've tried to learn from reading into perspective.

The HDD I have in the computer is a Seagate with 428GB free out of 468GB. Meaning that I am using only about 37GB. I do have a SATA HDD here somewhere. It has never been used but is an earlier version and is 60GB IIRC. Actually restore points apart that might do at a pinch although they are cheap enough to get anyway. I do no gaming at all and have no biggy programs other than windows itself.

Ok I'll ring around tomorrow but I will need to visit a shop and rely on their help/guidance as I know little enough about all this.

I have been to Ken's site and registered so will follow the tutorial and see if it goes to plan :D

jim

PS As an afterthought, could I do this with a 64GB memory stick

Edited April 18, 2013 by mij

[Plastic Nev]

Hum, one of the problems that just might jump out is the original size and therefore partitions that are on that 500GB, (468GB) existing drive, so to transfer an image of it to a much smaller drive may not actually work. Don't quote me on that though as I don't honestly know having never tried it.

 

It may work if a partitioning tool is used to reduce the existing partition to a size that will fit, thus leaving a large "Unallocated" space on the original drive first.

Therefore the 64GB memory stick should be OK. (Where the heck did you find one that big???)

 

Nev.

[mij]

Thanks for coming back on this again Nev.

 

Hum, one of the problems that just might jump out is the original size and therefore partitions that are on that 500GB, (468GB) existing drive, so to transfer an image of it to a much smaller drive may not actually work. Don't quote me on that though as I don't honestly know having never tried it.

 

Hmmm what if the info was saved in a file? Mightn't that when copied back do the job? I haven't a clue as you can tell. I do note that you quote the 465GB as a 500GB. I assume this is to do with GB being based on 8 and not ten? A BTW is that this disk doesn't seem to be partitioned at all.

 

(Where the heck did you find one that big???)

 

Nev.

 

I found it online and has the name Dane-Elec written on the side and in bigger numerals 64GB :cool: I got it and backed up all the data I had to rewrite after I upgraded this pooter with windows 7.

 

It will not be a problem if I have to get a same size disk and a caddy. If the shop don't have them then I'll get them online.

I hope this thing doesn't give up the volts in de vires before I get it copied across.

jim

[mij]

ok, thanks for that.

I have now read the two tutorials on creating an image and a restore CD. It is not clear to me when the restore CD which initiates the re-boot hands over to the image file.....is this when the tutorial says 'locate the image where the original was copied'? If that is on the new disk how and why is it transferred to itself. Or perhaps this is on another disk? that I hadn't realized was in play. That would make sense but without it I'm lost.

Confused of East Sussex

jim ;)

Edited April 18, 2013 by mij

[RandyL]

I just thought I would mention mention another option that should work since the option exists in all versions of Windows 7. Sorry to say though it won't work on a USB stick.

 

If you go to Control Panel and click on Backup and Restore you can make a system image and a system repair disk. For the image you can make a one time manual image. That image combined with the repair disk should work as long as the computer is set to boot from the optical drive first in the BIOS.

 

You will need an external Hard drive. DVD is an option but I don't recommend it.

Make sure you select all the drives when making the image if you have more then one.

The How-To Geek has a pretty good article on this.

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/4241/how-to-create-a-system-image-in-windows-7/

 

A lot of people use Macrium and Ken and Nev can guide you with it. I just thought I would throw out another option.

[mij]

Thanks for that Randyl, I printed out a hard copy of Ken and Nev's tutorial and had a further read last night. It's a bit clearer now. Ok, it seems best to have an external Hard drive and make an image on that. Also to use Macrium Reflect. I will get all instructions off pat before continuing. I have to make a trip in the car today which will take some time but will go from there.

I'll be back soon.

jim

[mij]

Just checking before spending.

I have been to Amazon and seen an external hard drive (WD 500GB for £39,00) and a Seagate replacement (ST3500418AS) hard drive (£41'sh). Will these do what I need?

jim

[KenB]

Hi Jim

 

If you are going to use them just for storing the image ( and other stuff ) then either would do as your original HDD is 500GB and the WD = 500GB and presumably the Seagate is at least that big.

 

 

If you are going to burn a direct copy for a straight swap then you would need to check that the HDD you are buying has the same connections as the existing one.

It is probably SATA .......... but there are still some IDE drives about that use molex power connections and a broad grey data cable.

( SATA uses much smaller data cables and the power connection is much slimmer )

 

Ask if unsure :)

[mij]

Ok, I'll lift off a side lid......

There is no wide flat cabling like there used to be....... whats more there seems to be a slot for an extra drive or something in the front of the computer. It has a vertical door which opens left to right. It has three cables into one plug at the back of it of it. A thicker white cable (about 5/6mm) and a black single cable and a yellow one. Another plug ......... got that far and realized a phone call to my son might be more revealing.....

 

It appears that the slot was for a back up disk....which he gave me so I must have it here somewhere...hope it didn't go out with the clutter when SWMBO had a mad fit a few months ago about tidying up....

jim (off to look through the boxes)

[mij]

Oh dear, it must have gone out with the clutter. The other disk I have here (hasn't been used at all) appears to be a Seagate Barracuda with 80GB on the label. I am only using 37GB and wondered if this would do?

I have taken a couple of photo's rather than describe these things so I'll try to upload them.

Is the hole for the back up disk called a caddy? If so where might I get a disk to fit that?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1914[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1915[/ATTACH]

The first shows the hole for the back up disk.

The second is an attempt to display the cabling and plugs at the rear of the back up slot. The HDD is in behind there somewhere. Mind the dust as you go!

jim (off to Eastbourne to chase up grandchild's birthday present)

[KenB]

Hi Jim

 

This is a "caddy"

http://www.gameseek.co.uk/images/products/35_ic-2936035-2147.jpg

The hard drive connects up inside ( just pushes onto the connections ) > pop the lid back and connect up to USB port.

Some have their own mains power adapter - some use the 5v available from the USB port.

 

You could use the space in the desktop for the second hard drive if you wish.

Do you have a spare SATA port on the motherboard to connect the data cable to ?

( assuming you have a spare data cable ? )

You would also need a spare power connection from the PSU too if you decided to go for this method.

 

 

The main thing is to save the image to a different drive from the original.

Obviously if the original dies you would not be able to get at the image if you saved it to a partition on the original HDD.

 

I don't see any IDE cable in your photos - so assume that you have SATA.

 

One more thing ..... Desktop HDDs are 3.5 inch ( laptops are 2.5 inch )

If you wanted to use the new drive as a replacement at some point you would need a 3.5 inch SATA.

If you wanted to utilise the space in the desktop for the drive - again .....3.5 inch.

 

If you just wanted to use the external drive as an external drive then it wouldn't matter which one.

You could just buy an external hard drive - it would come cased and no need to bother with caddies.

[Plastic Nev]

Hi Jim, you asked a couple of questions I will try to answer.

 

(Edit to add:- Just spotted Ken posted some helpful stuff while I was writing, however here is some more for you.)

 

First is regarding the restore or rescue disk needed for the Macrium reflect. As you will have seen you have to create this disk yourself using the Macrium software. You have a choice of either creating a simple Linux disk, or the more complex Windows PE disk. I will say now that creating the Windows PE disk is much the better disk, as it is more flexible for use with any Macrium backup you create where the disk will be required. The only drawback is the size of the file which has to be downloaded, and depending on internet connection speed, can take a a long time. However I recommend doing so as I found the simpler Linux disk can sometimes not recognise the external hard drive, depending on the make of hard drive.

 

So what exactly is this rescue disk? The answer is that it is a small but complete operating system, plus a copy of Macrium reflect, which is needed to be used, in order to handle the transfer of the image from your external hard drive, onto the blank and new internal hard drive. Is the simplest way of describing what the rescue disk does.

 

You may have read about running any of the Linux operating systems directly off the DVD disk rather than installing the Linux system. The rescue disk is just using the same principal to run an operating system, plus the Macrium software, as until the transfer or copy of your image is complete, the new hard drive and therefore the rest of the computer, doesn't have an operating system, but there has to be one somewhere. The rescue disk is it.

 

All the above is for using an external hard drive to first copy an image onto from the entire internal hard drive, this image is compressed though complete, and includes the complete operating system as well as all files and folders of photo, video, music, and document data. You do not need the original Windows XP/Vista/7 operating system disks. It is all there in the full image, providing of course you selected the option to create a full system image.

A system image, being compressed takes up slightly less room on the external hard drive and is why an image is preferred as a means of backup protection.

 

Within Macrium Reflect there is also the option to create a full system clone, now a clone is a different type of system copy and is a totally complete copy that is not compressed, unlike an image which is compressed. I tried to explain earlier that this clone could be used directly, and here is how.

First you obtain the replacement new hard drive which will replace the risky old hard drive, and first put the new drive into either a complete enclosure, (sometimes called a caddy) or cheaper still, obtain a SATA to USB adapter, and use it to connect the new hard drive to the computer. Using Macrium Reflect you create a clone copy of the old dodgy drive which is put on to the new drive in its adapter or enclosure.

Being a clone and fully complete on the new drive, you just remove the new hard drive from the adapter or enclosure, throw out the dodgy old drive and fit the new hard drive in its place. If all went well, the computer is back up and running off the new hard drive.

 

 

Next question you asked.

The hole or slot on the left in your first photo, looks like a possible docking slot for an extra internal hard drive, it may possibly be used for either a floppy drive, or if big enough, (hard to tell from photo) it may also take an ordinary CD/DVD drive. One of those things where one needs to be there to fully examine the case to be exactly sure, unless of course you have seen one elsewhere before.

 

No doubt Ken can offer more help next time he is on line as I have to go now, but hope I have helped you in understanding a little more of what we are doing.

 

Nev.

[mij]

Thanks Ken and Nev for your patience and skill. I've never done this sort of stuff before.

Let me run through this before I start ordering stuff. Don't expire if I go ott with this as I can also double up and clone SWMBO's sytem for her protection as well.

 

I get an external hard drive with a USB to SATA cable upon which I download a copy of Macrium Reflect.

I connect the new HDD to the computer via another SATA to USB cable?

Clone the old HDD onto the new HDD using Macrium Reflect via the external HDD.

Fit the new HDD.

Start up as usual on the new and cloned hdd.

Is that correct?

jim

Edited April 19, 2013 by mij

[KenB]

Hi Jim

You have me a little confused :)

 

Download Macrium to your present hard drive and install it.

This assumes that your present hard drive is working OK at the moment. If it isn't you can't go any further.

 

 

 

 

 

You need an external hard drive ( new ? )

You would be best advised to buy something like this:

click here

 

They come enclosed with the relevant connections.

 

You don't need to be concerned about 2.5 or 3.5 inch other than 2.5 inch will be smaller physically.

( you are just going to use this as an external hard drive for storage )

 

If you are going to clone the old hard drive then you will need another hard drive that you are going to install into your PC as a replacement for your present one.

This MUST be SATA and 3.5 inches.

You must also have some method of connecting this to the old PC.

This can be done as described earlier - direct to the motherboard using a SATA cable / Caddy to USB / USB to SATA adapter.

 

You need a CD and a working CDROM drive to burn the software needed to run the recovery when you need it.

This is done from the installed software.

 

You are going to clone the old drive to the 3.5 SATA one directly.

 

You are then going to create an image of the old drive to the external hard drive.

 

Don't forget to burn the required software so that you can recover the image if you ever need to.

( I would copy this CD so that you have 2 copies :) )

 

If you are going to image your wife's drive you will need to install Macrium on her PC too.

 

Now refer to the tutorial on my site ( KenspcHelp ).

[mij]

ok, I think I have it now. Thanks for putting me right.

 

You seem to have been on the same page as me in Amazon :D

I'll get my order in and should be ready by Monday or Tuesday to do this. I hope this HDD lasts ok until then ;).

Jim

[KenB]

I hope this HDD lasts ok until then

If you think that it may be a problem - use it as little as possible until you get it cloned.

 

Remember cloning / creating an image will copy exactly what is on the drive ...... errors too.

( not physical errors :) )

[mij]

Hi Ken, it was ignorance was bliss until I downloaded the hdd testing software. It confirmed my thinking though, that it was nearing the end.

Talking to my lad today he reckoned he may have renewed the hard drive in this one. He has now gone over to Macs as he works with graphics. This hdd has to be about at least 6 years old though.

 

I have had another look at the M/board and there seems to be another 4 sockets for the red slim flat wires that emanate from the CD and the HDD. They are set two across by two deep and are green red on top and pink and blue at the bottom. They are immediately next to the sockets for the hdd and the cd.

 

There are also another four USB sockets available, two at the rear (making four at the back) and another two at the front.

 

There seems to be only one power lead though left swinging.

I looked here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-500GB-Slimline-Portable-Drive/dp/B008PSEWRG/ref=sr_1_5?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1366404111&sr=1-5

and here http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/cart/view.html/ref=gno_cart

 

as I see it, this should need a cable with usb to sata connectors for each drive? I assume that use of the USB sockets will simplify this process. is this correct? Sorry to be so ignorant but don't want to be kept waiting or make a wrong choice at this juncture. When I googled this I was faced with a confusing array of connectors cables and adapters, I didn't know which was needed. Amazon was no better.

jim

PS I do not know the difference between usb2 and usb3 - if there is one?

Edited April 19, 2013 by mij

[KenB]

Hi Jim

 

Your second link takes me to a Kodak Printer ???

 

I do not know the difference between usb2 and usb3 - if there is one?

There is no difference in the connection - but there is in the data transfer speed

USB 3 is up to 10 times faster than USB2.

 

There seems to be only one power lead though left swinging.

It is possible to get an extension or a splitter.

 

You can use a hard disk to USB adapter if you wish.

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00HBjQKDrMLskS/SATA-to-USB-3-0-Cable-WLX891U3-.jpg

[mij]

Thanks Ken. It looks like that is the lead that I need for the new hard drive. I assume that the new external hard drive will have a lead of its own? If not what lead will it require? I'd like to order these with next day delivery but some wooden arrows that I had on similar order got delivered two days late - and not by parcel post either. By a photographer's framing shop.:D

jim

[mij]

Hi Jim

 

Your second link takes me to a Kodak Printer ???

[/Quote]

Sorry, that actually takes me to my basket :D try this one

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-500GB-Slimline-Portable-Drive/dp/B008PSEWRG/ref=sr_1_5?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1366443272&sr=1-5#productDetails

That should take you to a Samsung external hard drive with 48cm USB cable

There is no difference in the connection - but there is in the data transfer speed

USB 3 is up to 10 times faster than USB2.

Thank you very much for that info. I needed that. :D

 

Ok that is all the info gathered.

One Seagate 465GB (500GB) internal HDD

One SATA to USB cable for the above

One Samsung 500GB external HDD with its own 48cm USB cable (the cable info was in a review, not the original specification)

I'll order this from Amazon today with next day delivery, may be it will get here Monday?

Thanks for everything.

jim

[mij]

Further to my last post which I was unable to edit (out of time) When I went to order a SATA to USB cable it warned in red that it was for data transfer only and that a separate power supply is needed. It did mention large drives but how large do they mean? Will I need one? If this is this so, where do I find one of those?

jim

[KenB]

Hi Jim

 

Can you post a link to the SATA to USB cable please ?

[mij]

Hi Jim

 

Can you post a link to the SATA to USB cable please ?

 

I hope this works

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008LW7AKM/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003OCRWCU&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0W57BDYETD9B3E42AA7P

The warning can be found under the heading of product information. About halfway or so down the page. Perhaps this was too cheap? There are many others far more expensive - one was £136.00!

jim