Why is there such a mindset against paying for software?

[wellies]

I really don't mean to be confrontational but would like to put a point of view.

 

Why is there such a mindset against paying for software? Security program companies have to make money to keep going. If they don't get enough people willing to pay, then that could ultimately make the software suffer.

 

People who never pay are relying on those who do pay to keep them in security software. A fair policy? I think if anyone uses free software for a while and finds it good, then it should be paid for. I can't see why not paying would be promoted.

 

Perhaps that's why we're getting all the PUPs that we do these days. Nobody wants to pay for anything, so software developers have to resort to bundling PUPs in order to make a bit of money for their troubles. Are PUPS a direct result of people's quest for free software? I think they could be.

[KenB]

People who never pay are relying on those who do pay to keep them in security software

I suggested MS Essentials.

As you know - this is a totally free A-V from Microsoft.

If M$ are offering to supply me with a perfectly good - free - AntiVirus I, for one, am not going to turn it down.

They make enough out of me anyway - I don't feel guilty in any way taking something for free from them :)

[wellies]

Yes that is different Ken because Microsoft make their money elsewhere. This isn't the case with other security software though and the free versions of these are often mentioned too.

 

I never have thought MSE very good although with Windows 8.1, Windows Defender is said to be much improved. I use paid Bitdefender and Sandboxie myself.

[Starbuck]

Hi Wellies

 

People who never pay are relying on those who do pay to keep them in security software

On the face of it.... a fair statement.

But it's not really the case.

Let's take BitDefender as you are using the paid version and i am using the free version.

All i want is the AV protection which i get from the free version.

With the paid version you also get:

Safebox

Facebook Protection

Anti Theft

Parental Control

Tech Assist

None of which i want.

So why would i pay for something i neither need or want?

 

Most AV vendors work like this.

The free version will only contain the bare essentials.

It's the paid versions that include all the extras.

If you want all the extras, then by all means pay for them.

 

AV companies probably don't make a lot of money from the ordinary user anyway, it's business users that they target for the revenue.

Try finding a free business version of an AV.

 

Also it's an unwritten rule that any program we recommend would be a free program.

No one wants to come to a site like this for help and go away having paid out a fortune in recommended programs.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Starbuck

[wellies]

Also it's an unwritten rule that any program we recommend would be a free program. No one wants to come to a site like this for help and go away having paid out a fortune in recommended programs.

I had written quite a long post before I read this but If that's the forum policy, then I'll refrain from further comment.

 

Sigh ..I think this is why I don't seem to fit anywhere.

[cockpheasant]

Y'know what? I feel just like a little old man who threw a colleagues burger into a piranha pond!!

[wellies]

Don't worry cockpheasant. One thing just lead to another there as can happen. Not your fault. Take the advice of those who give advice and help on a day to day basis here and have proven to be good.

 

I'm just a feller who popped in and threw a spanner in the works. I can't help it sometimes. :)

[KenB]

I feel just like a little old man who threw a colleagues burger into a piranha pond!!

The difference here is - we don't bite :)

 

We value opinions and are mature enough to realise that in a community like this not everybody is going to agree.

[wellies]

We value opinions and are mature enough to realise that in a community like this not everybody is going to agree.

 

I know not everyone will agree with everyone else but I can never find anyone who would agree that the 'free' tradition could damage the software market and that it might have done so to an extent already. I think my points have been maturely put but just assuring that I haven't stopped in an immature huff. It's only because of the unwritten rule mentioned.

 

I think I ought to just run my computer, full of paid-for smooth-running software. I'm good at doing that. I mean, using the computer was why I got one in the first place. Never thought I'd feel the need to be endlessly discussing computers, software, the Internet etc. I should have bought that wood-turning lathe instead. It was a close-run thing. :)

 

The difference here is - we don't bite

 

Biting would definitely be against the rules. :D

Edited December 3, 2013 by wellies

[KenB]

Biting would definitely be against the rules.

I have looked ............. I can't find anything at all to say ......specifically ..... that we can't :)

[cockpheasant]

I have a wood turning lathe......and argue the qualities of timber with the woodyard staff. Its what comes of being a war baby and wanting things for nothing.

[KenB]

I have a wood turning lathe..

You will appreciate what I made for my grandson :)

[cockpheasant]

Nice one Ken. I'm afraid that rolling pins and fish stunning clubs are about my level. Oh, and my goose egg cups are in demand!

[KenB]

Nice one Ken....

Thanks :)

[Starbuck]

You will appreciate what I made for my grandson

What?? you have time to spare?

We're not working you hard enough. :)

[KenB]

We're not working you hard enough.

I like to think of it as efficiency :)

[Plastic Nev]

Nice one Ken, didn't know you had a wood spinning tool (lathe)

I am more a metal worker and not that good with wood, you can't weld it.

 

Nev.

[Woodworker]

 

Why is there such a mindset against paying for software? Security program companies have to make money to keep going. If they don't get enough people willing to pay, then that could ultimately make the software suffer.

 

People who never pay are relying on those who do pay to keep them in security software. A fair policy? I think if anyone uses free software for a while and finds it good, then it should be paid for. I can't see why not paying would be promoted.

 

 

While I respect your opinion Wellies, I suggest that the companies who offer free versions of software such as Avast and Superantispyware etc. are run by hard-headed business people who wouldn't do so simply out of philanthropy. They must be happy to offer it, perhaps in the hope that some users will upgrade to the paid for and more powerful versions. This particularly applies to imaging software where users may want more advanced features as their expertise grows.

 

Having said that Wellies, you have prompted me to make a contribution to this site, as you have done, which is run on a non-commercial basis and has already been of enormous help to me. It's very reassuring to know that speedy help is available when needed and I would urge others who haven't yet done so to think about donating a few pounds.

 

All the best, David :)

[wellies]

I think companies do offer free versions of their software in the hope that people will upgrade to the paid versions but maybe not enough people do so. Those who offer 'free forever' software rely on a certain number of people donating to the software's upkeep. Also, I guess the developers need to make money somehow in order to feed their families etc. Whether they all have other ways of making money or not, I notice nearly all the 'free forever' programs have their 'Donate' buttons.

 

Everywhere I look, people who want a job doing on the computer will request a recommendation for a free bit of software to do it. Many never want to pay for any software used.

 

It is my opinion that it's because software developers aren't able to make enough money via the paid versions or donations, they resort to bundling the PUPs/adware that people install. Then comes the need to turn to a forum for help in removing them where further free software is recommended without encouragement to pay or donate. Would it hurt to link to a few 'Donate' pages where software has been helpful? It looks like even a traditionally free site is having trouble supporting 'free'. Sends a message I think:

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/08/gimp_dumps_sourceforge_over_dodgy_ads_and_installer/

 

I'd say to consider paying for software that is regularly used, software that has been useful or software that has helped with a problem. It might help stop the decline.

 

It does seem to be going further. There are cases of PUPs being installed even where people have carefully unticked the options to install them. I have experienced this personally with some software I wanted to try before buying. I know I turned down the options but the PUPs installed anyway. It looks like whoever bundles PUPs are wising up to the fact that more people know to uncheck the options when installing free software.

 

I believe that paying for software helps support the quality of what's on offer on the Internet. The trouble is that, with not many people agreeing, I'm probably only making a token gesture.

 

David, I did once make a donation to the forum because that's what I do. It was only once and a long time ago though, so I'm not really an example. I would donate regularly if I was here more though. The trouble is that I've fallen out of love with computers and the Internet to a great degree, so am not so avidly interested as I once was. Don't post too much anywhere now ..except when I get a bee in my bonnet about a subject or two. That's probably just as well. :)

[Woodworker]

You make interesting points Wellies but consider something I'm nowthinking about. Adobe market good software and a program I have beenusing for some years, Adobe Elements, is a very good imaging packagewhich I've become used to and can't really fault. I first gotElements 2.0 free with either a camera or printer – this must bethe best part of ten years' ago and since then I've used Elements 4.0and Elements 8.0 which came pre-installed on a lappy which has nowdied. I've no licence and therefore loaded Elements 4.0 from a discon to my new lappy, only to discover that it won't work with Windows8 – not the fault of Adobe but Microsoft who come out with a newWindows every couple of years and, in my opinion, have rushed throughWindows 8 which is a mess! In fact, I hate it and have beenfortunate in finding a free program called Classic Shell which makesit appear similar to Windows 7.

 

I'mno longer interested in photography and haven't even got a camera butI like to have imaging software to edit pictures for others or imagesI get from the internet. I've tried some of the free ones and havenot been at all impressed and have deleted them. Therefore,yesterday evening I downloaded the thirty day trial of Elements 12.0to discover that it isn't – for me at least – a significantimprovement on previous versions. The chances are that I'll purchaseit but I won't feel I'm getting a better product than what's gonebefore it. I'm not saying I'm being ripped off and, in any case,it's my choice but I do wish companies such as Microsoft and Adobeweren't so quick in producing new and not necessarily better versionsof their products. I'll leave it to others to draw conclusions aboutwhy they do it.

 

Ido agree with you about PUPs being a pain! Windows no longer provideGadgets and I've been searching for a desktop clock but have givenup, as I have in trying to find a decent version of Solitaire –there's one available in the Microsoft apps store but it's not nearlyas good as the original which I became addicted to. I wish it werepossible to find sites offering these things at a price with a shorttrial period and no PUPs, so I can see where you're coming from butwith reservations.

 

I'msorry I've rambled on but I wonder if the site owners might considera forum in which we can have a good grumble – something I sometimeslike doing – Haha!

 

Best wishes, David :)

[Plastic Nev]

Hi Dave, for a general discussion and even a grumble we do have a space, here :-

 

http://extremetechsupport.com/forums/74-OFF-TOPIC-CIVILISED-DISCUSSION-WORLD-NEWS-ETC

 

See you there if you want to discuss elements, or other image and graphics manipulation programs.

 

If you want to post some of your work, we also have a photo section within the fun stuff forum as well.

 

http://extremetechsupport.com/forums/72-FUN-STUFF

 

Nev.

[Starbuck]

I wonder if the site owners might considera forum in which we can have a good grumble

The 'Mods' do have one of these threads..... we call it 'Rant for today'

[wellies]

I've tried most image programs free and paid apart from Photoshop, which I know I'd never be able to afford or justify buying. I have tried the latest version of Elements too. Very good but my favourite program for photo editing is Corel Photo-Paint (part of the CorelDraw Suite). Not free but there is a Home & Student version that is much more affordable than the full version that costs a fortune. I had version X5 at the time of upgrading to Windows 8 and this was judged as being incompatible. I went ahead and used Photo-Paint X5 anyway. It turned out that it was only the 'import from scanner' function that had stopped working. I have a Brother all-in-one (DCP-385C) and luckily, the scanner software that comes with this sends scans straight to a program of choice. This works with Photo-Paint OK, so that overcame the problem.

 

Out of all the free photo editing programs I tried, I thought PhotoScape was best. I Don't know if you have tried this program. It's not so fully featured as Gimp but it is fairly easy to learn and has some good points. I have tried it with Windows 8.1 and it was initially slow. A reboot seemed to sort that out OK.

 

There's a link below in case you want to try it. I'll give the Softpedia one (WOT approved) because I know the download isn't wrapped up in a third-party installer. It does come with the offer of the Google Toolbar though. This offer comes just after the 'I agree - install' stage. When this button is clicked, you have the option of deselecting the installation of the toolbar.

 

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multime...otoScape.shtml

 

Photoscape has a 'Donate' button if you feel inclined to click it having used the program for a few months.

[wellies]

Sorry the thread has gone off at a tangent.

[Starbuck]

Sorry the thread has gone off at a tangent.

Yes it has from the original post.

But because the issues raised are quite relevant, i have moved the offending posts to this new thread.

You are now free to continue comments on fors or against paying for software?.