Guest thanatoid Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Hello gang, I know this is not strictly 98-related but I know there are some real brains in here. As some of you may recall, I have a computer which will be 10 years old in September. It works fine. Really. Please don't just tell me to throw it in the trash and get a new one. When it dies for good, I will. At the moment I need nothing more. {I have a 2GHz machine for things requiring more speed than 166MHz offers (which incidentally - IMHO - does not include accessing the internet).} Anyway, the almost-10-yrs-old machine has a PC Chips M572 MB, with 6 RAM slots. 2 are DIMM, 4 are SIMM. It can take a total of 256MB of memory and the manual provides 4 SIMM/DIMM configurations by which this can be achieved. The 4 SIMM slots have a 16MB stick in each of them giving me 64MB of RAM. It has always been this way. I happen to own a 64MB DIMM (it says 64MB 100/320/640 or something, and has a nonsensical non-brand brand name which escapes me at the moment). Pathetic as you undoubtedly will find this (and hopefully pity will inspire someone to help me), I have owned this DIMM for about 5 years but BION, just could not get the damn thing into either of the DIMM slots. Really. I tried and tried and it just wouldn't go in. So I just wrapped it in some pink antistatic foam and put it in a box somewhere. Well, for reasons not worth going into, today I decided to try one more time. It went in - but not after a ***LONG*** struggle with both slots. Now here's the question: It is in slot DIMM2. The MB manual says "SIMM1 and SIMM2 and DIMM2 slots can not be used at the same time". It does NOT say "SIMM 1,2,3,4 and DIMM 2 can not be used at the same time", nor does it say they can - of course. When I put the DIMM into slot 1, the machine won't boot up. It makes a few preliminary noises but then stops. So the 64MB DIMM is in DIMM slot 2. The machine boots, the only difference being that instead of making a steady beep when "testing memory", it makes a low/slightly higher/low again triple continuous beep. It also now tells me it has 80 MB of RAM. I have, with some effort, managed to work out that means I have gained 16 MB of RAM from the 64 MB DIMM. Actually HERE's the question, sorry. /I think of the 2 options of saying not enough vs. too much, the 2nd is preferable, boring as it may be. But isn't that why we're all here?/ I can't remember whether the 64MB DIMM has 4 or 8 chips on it, but is 3/4 of it just dead? Is there something else going on? Can a memory module work AT ALL when 3/4 (or whatever) of it is NG? When dealing with a 166MHz machine with 64MB of RAM, even an extra 8MB is not unwelcome, although I have never had serious memory problems. Still, if you HAVE an extra 64 (or 16) laying around, why not use it (after 5 years)? More importantly, can any damage be done to the machine if the DIMM is 3/4 dead? Everything runs fine and I now have about 45 MB of RAM free once 95B boots up instead of about 30, so unless there is a reason I should NOT, I intent to leave the ¿16/64¿ DIMM in DIMM slot 2. So I guess the final question is: leave it in, take it out and throw it in the trash, or something else yet? Thank you for your patience and thank you for any replies which may come forward. Regards t. -- Everyone who installs Vista is insane.
Guest glee Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. According to the manual I found online (M572V12.pdf) http://www.sprintcomputer.com/ftp/bios/M572/m572v12.exe: Four SIMM sockets on the mainboard are divided into two banks: Bank 1 and Bank 2. Each bank consists of two 72-pin SIMM modules. So you have all four SIMM slots (both banks) filled. The two DIMM sockets are Banks 0 and 1. Bank 1 can only be EITHER one DIMM OR two SIMMs So, if you have all four SIMM sockets filled, you must put your DIMM in Bank 0, which is the slot labeled DIMM1, and is furthest away from the SIMM sockets, and closest to the processor.. This is opposite of what you have now. I do not know why it won't boot the way it is supposed to be installed, but will in the unsupported config. Possibly because it is a PC Chips mobo? <eg> There is also a jumper on the mobo...JP5...which is the DIMM voltage selector, toggling between 3.3v and 5v. This jumper appears to be adjacent to DIMM1. You can, at least according to the wording of the manual, get 256MB total RAM using all SIMMs or all DIMMs or in a combo in the slots I described. My own experience with that period of transitional mobos with both kinds of slots has been: DON'T MIX THEM. Even if they say they support a mix of SIMMs and DIMMs at the same time, they may not. I have a Shuttle board here from that era, with both slot types, and it absolutely does NOT support mixing them.....you use one or the other. It also has a voltage jumper for the DIMMs, depending on whether PC66 or PC100 SDRAM is installed. Your mystery DIMM may be PC100 and not set to proper voltage, and also the voltage may not be supported when used in a mix with the SIMMs. Were it me, I'd remove the DIMM. Hope this helps rather than adding to your confusion. -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+ http://dts-l.org/ http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm "thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> wrote in message news:Xns9963E15ADB3E8thanexit@66.250.146.158... > Hello gang, > > I know this is not strictly 98-related but I know there are some > real brains in here. > > As some of you may recall, I have a computer which will be 10 > years old in September. It works fine. Really. > > Please don't just tell me to throw it in the trash and get a new > one. When it dies for good, I will. At the moment I need nothing > more. > > {I have a 2GHz machine for things requiring more speed than > 166MHz offers (which incidentally - IMHO - does not include > accessing the internet).} > > Anyway, the almost-10-yrs-old machine has a PC Chips M572 MB, > with 6 RAM slots. 2 are DIMM, 4 are SIMM. > > It can take a total of 256MB of memory and the manual provides 4 > SIMM/DIMM configurations by which this can be achieved. > > The 4 SIMM slots have a 16MB stick in each of them giving me > 64MB of RAM. It has always been this way. > > I happen to own a 64MB DIMM (it says 64MB 100/320/640 or > something, and has a nonsensical non-brand brand name which > escapes me at the moment). Pathetic as you undoubtedly will find > this (and hopefully pity will inspire someone to help me), I > have owned this DIMM for about 5 years but BION, just could not > get the damn thing into either of the DIMM slots. Really. I > tried and tried and it just wouldn't go in. So I just wrapped it > in some pink antistatic foam and put it in a box somewhere. > > Well, for reasons not worth going into, today I decided to try > one more time. > > It went in - but not after a ***LONG*** struggle with both > slots. > > Now here's the question: > > It is in slot DIMM2. The MB manual says "SIMM1 and SIMM2 and > DIMM2 slots can not be used at the same time". > > It does NOT say "SIMM 1,2,3,4 and DIMM 2 can not be used at the > same time", nor does it say they can - of course. > > When I put the DIMM into slot 1, the machine won't boot up. It > makes a few preliminary noises but then stops. > > So the 64MB DIMM is in DIMM slot 2. The machine boots, the only > difference being that instead of making a steady beep when > "testing memory", it makes a low/slightly higher/low again > triple continuous beep. > > It also now tells me it has 80 MB of RAM. I have, with some > effort, managed to work out that means I have gained 16 MB of > RAM from the 64 MB DIMM. > > Actually HERE's the question, sorry. /I think of the 2 options > of saying not enough vs. too much, the 2nd is preferable, boring > as it may be. But isn't that why we're all here?/ > > I can't remember whether the 64MB DIMM has 4 or 8 chips on it, > but is 3/4 of it just dead? Is there something else going on? > Can a memory module work AT ALL when 3/4 (or whatever) of it is > NG? > > When dealing with a 166MHz machine with 64MB of RAM, even an > extra > 8MB is not unwelcome, although I have never had serious memory > problems. Still, if you HAVE an extra 64 (or 16) laying around, > why not use it (after 5 years)? > > More importantly, can any damage be done to the machine if the > DIMM is 3/4 dead? Everything runs fine and I now have about 45 > MB of RAM free once 95B boots up instead of about 30, so unless > there is a reason I should NOT, I intent to leave the ¿16/64¿ > DIMM in DIMM slot 2. > > So I guess the final question is: leave it in, take it out and > throw it in the trash, or something else yet? > > Thank you for your patience and thank you for any replies which > may come forward. > > Regards > t. > > > -- > Everyone who installs Vista is insane.
Guest MEB Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. "thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> wrote in message news:Xns9963E15ADB3E8thanexit@66.250.146.158... | Hello gang, | | I know this is not strictly 98-related but I know there are some | real brains in here. | | As some of you may recall, I have a computer which will be 10 | years old in September. It works fine. Really. | | Please don't just tell me to throw it in the trash and get a new | one. When it dies for good, I will. At the moment I need nothing | more. | | {I have a 2GHz machine for things requiring more speed than | 166MHz offers (which incidentally - IMHO - does not include | accessing the internet).} | | Anyway, the almost-10-yrs-old machine has a PC Chips M572 MB, | with 6 RAM slots. 2 are DIMM, 4 are SIMM. | | It can take a total of 256MB of memory and the manual provides 4 | SIMM/DIMM configurations by which this can be achieved. | | The 4 SIMM slots have a 16MB stick in each of them giving me | 64MB of RAM. It has always been this way. | | I happen to own a 64MB DIMM (it says 64MB 100/320/640 or | something, and has a nonsensical non-brand brand name which | escapes me at the moment). Pathetic as you undoubtedly will find | this (and hopefully pity will inspire someone to help me), I | have owned this DIMM for about 5 years but BION, just could not | get the damn thing into either of the DIMM slots. Really. I | tried and tried and it just wouldn't go in. So I just wrapped it | in some pink antistatic foam and put it in a box somewhere. | | Well, for reasons not worth going into, today I decided to try | one more time. | | It went in - but not after a ***LONG*** struggle with both | slots. | | Now here's the question: | | It is in slot DIMM2. The MB manual says "SIMM1 and SIMM2 and | DIMM2 slots can not be used at the same time". | | It does NOT say "SIMM 1,2,3,4 and DIMM 2 can not be used at the | same time", nor does it say they can - of course. | | When I put the DIMM into slot 1, the machine won't boot up. It | makes a few preliminary noises but then stops. | | So the 64MB DIMM is in DIMM slot 2. The machine boots, the only | difference being that instead of making a steady beep when | "testing memory", it makes a low/slightly higher/low again | triple continuous beep. | | It also now tells me it has 80 MB of RAM. I have, with some | effort, managed to work out that means I have gained 16 MB of | RAM from the 64 MB DIMM. | | Actually HERE's the question, sorry. /I think of the 2 options | of saying not enough vs. too much, the 2nd is preferable, boring | as it may be. But isn't that why we're all here?/ | | I can't remember whether the 64MB DIMM has 4 or 8 chips on it, | but is 3/4 of it just dead? Is there something else going on? | Can a memory module work AT ALL when 3/4 (or whatever) of it is | NG? | | When dealing with a 166MHz machine with 64MB of RAM, even an | extra | 8MB is not unwelcome, although I have never had serious memory | problems. Still, if you HAVE an extra 64 (or 16) laying around, | why not use it (after 5 years)? | | More importantly, can any damage be done to the machine if the | DIMM is 3/4 dead? Everything runs fine and I now have about 45 | MB of RAM free once 95B boots up instead of about 30, so unless | there is a reason I should NOT, I intent to leave the ¿16/64¿ | DIMM in DIMM slot 2. | | So I guess the final question is: leave it in, take it out and | throw it in the trash, or something else yet? | | Thank you for your patience and thank you for any replies which | may come forward. | | Regards | t. | | | -- | Everyone who installs Vista is insane. Okay, here goes: http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/index.html -general info/latest info http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/memory/index.html - memory - newer http://www.tomshardware.com/archive.html - older archived versions which would apply in your case. http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/ - forums for computer discussions http://bugclub.org/eric/memory/index.html - site devoted to memory - chips - virtual - expanded/extended, etc. Your mixing memory which likely does not work together. SIMMS [single inline 72 pin] and DIMMS [dual/double inline] are usually mutually exclusive. Mixing DRAM/SIMM/DIMM/SDRAM is difficult at best. ALSO, you specifically note difficulty installing the module into the slot. NOTE: the module may have been a 172, or other *pin/finger* rather than 168, OR your slot may have a slightly different slot configuration {pinwise}. Sometimes the *break* is off by a few *fingers*, indicating proprietary modules, or it may be JEDEC or otherwise special. For example, I have 2 - 8 meg JEDEC DIMM modules which work ONLY in certain Gateways [bought it back when memory was REALLY expensive for a customer who then balked at the buy]. Interestingly, the Internet web information mixes the various Module's specifications, so its difficult to find good information. YOUR MANUAL CLAIMS: - Supports 64M-bit (16Mx4, 8Mx8, 4Mx16) DRAM/SDRAM technology - Provides 4 x 72-pin SIMM modules auto banking in multiple configuration up to 256MB and also, 2 x 168-pin DIMM to support SDRAM/EDO DRAM/Page Mode DRAM up to 256MB THE CONFIG AVAILABLE IS SUPPOSEDLY: Bank 1 SIMM1 & SIMM2 (72-pin SIMM) DIMM2 (168-pin DIMM) 2 x 4MB/8MB/16MB/32MB/64MB or 4MB, 8MB, 16MB, 32MB, 64MB, 128MB YET THE NOTES SAY: Notes: 1. SIMM1 & 2 and DIMM2, these two types of DRAM module can not be used at the same time. 2. The speed of all SIMMs and DIMM modules have to be faster than 70ns. 3. Use 2 DRAM types: Fast Page Mode or Extend DATA Out (EDO) for SIMM socket. 4. Use 3 DRAM types: Fast Page Mode, Extend Data Out (EDO), or synchronous DRAM (SDRAM) for DIMM socket. ---- Which generally mean you would have to remove the first bank [1 & 2] of 72 pin chips to free the memory area for DIMM 1 [which is usually the shared memory configuration {DIMM1 and SIMM 1&2} both can NOT be used together], OR it may mean DIMM 1 and SIMM 3 & 4 can be used together [the generally acceptable]. HOWEVER: Their claim [per the notes, pictures, and manual] is that slot 1&2 SIMM and slot1 DIMM work together which is usually a conflict, though the maker of the manual may have listed/pictured the slots differently verses the Notes verses many other boards. This board's shared memory, is slots 1&2 [72 pin] and slot 2 [168] I find this typical of older foreign boards; they may have conflicting or poorly explained information, as this apparently is. Removing either bank (2 slots/one bank {72 pin}), limits the memory by 32 megs, so the max potentially with your chips is 96 megs. NOTE SPECIFICALLY: most board manufacturers [of that era boards] included statements to NOT mix the two types of memory due to addressing issues. Moreover, should it work, you are limited to the generally slower speed and addressing of the SIMM/DRAM. Generally 60 or 70 NS for the SIMMs, verses 8 or 10 NS for the DIMM. My FIC will support a mix, but there are times when it would error out in memory intensive progs like PhotoShop, when configged that way. TWO other variables: the module may be of another chip configuration than the 3 supported types; the voltage may need set and/or the Front Side Bus speed [FSB]. Glen supplied relevant information. -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com ________
Guest Franc Zabkar Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:52:23 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> put finger to keyboard and composed: >According to the manual I found online (M572V12.pdf) >http://www.sprintcomputer.com/ftp/bios/M572/m572v12.exe: That looks like a BIOS update. Here is the manual: http://www.pcchipsusa.com/Manual/M572/m572v12.pdf >Four SIMM sockets on the mainboard are divided into two banks: Bank 1 and Bank 2. >Each bank consists of two 72-pin SIMM modules. So you have all four SIMM slots >(both banks) filled. > >The two DIMM sockets are Banks 0 and 1. > >Bank 1 can only be EITHER one DIMM OR two SIMMs > >So, if you have all four SIMM sockets filled, you must put your DIMM in Bank 0, >which is the slot labeled DIMM1, and is furthest away from the SIMM sockets, and >closest to the processor.. > >This is opposite of what you have now. I do not know why it won't boot the way it >is supposed to be installed, but will in the unsupported config. Possibly because >it is a PC Chips mobo? <eg> > >There is also a jumper on the mobo...JP5...which is the DIMM voltage selector, >toggling between 3.3v and 5v. This jumper appears to be adjacent to DIMM1. > >You can, at least according to the wording of the manual, get 256MB total RAM using >all SIMMs or all DIMMs or in a combo in the slots I described. > >My own experience with that period of transitional mobos with both kinds of slots >has been: DON'T MIX THEM. > >Even if they say they support a mix of SIMMs and DIMMs at the same time, they may >not. > >I have a Shuttle board here from that era, with both slot types, and it absolutely >does NOT support mixing them.....you use one or the other. It also has a voltage >jumper for the DIMMs, depending on whether PC66 or PC100 SDRAM is installed. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that all SDRAMs required 3.3V. I believe there were early DIMMs that used FPM (fast page mode) or EDO RAM chips - these would probably need 5V. >Your mystery DIMM may be PC100 and not set to proper voltage, and also the voltage >may not be supported when used in a mix with the SIMMs. Intel's documentation appears to confirm this. >Were it me, I'd remove the DIMM. >Hope this helps rather than adding to your confusion. If the OP needs to remove anything, then I'd remove the SIMMs. A single 64MB SDRAM (?) DIMM would probably be much faster than his present setup (10ns versus 70nS), assuming it works in slot 1 or slot 2 on its own. In any case, Intel's documentation for the chipset states that the slots can be populated in any order, ie bank 0 need not be populated first. BTW, I understand the frustration with the tight sockets. Right now I'm using a PCChips M571 (SiS 5597/5598 chipset) with the same problem. It's been a very reliable board, though. It also has a similar RAM configuration, although I haven't tried to mix the modules. Here are excerpts from Intel's 430TX chipset datasheet. INTEL 430TX PCISET: 82439TX SYSTEM CONTROLLER (MTXC): http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/29055901.pdf ===================================================================== It is not recommended to mix SDRAM (which are 3V devices) with 5V EDO/FPM SIMMs, unless the SDRAM and EDO/FPM are properly isolated (e.g., isolate the memory data lines with Qswitches). Mixing 5V and 3V memory is not recommend for reliability reasons. Not all SDRAMs are 5V tolerant. ===================================================================== Rules for Populating SIMM Modules (or x32 SO-DIMM modules) · SIMM sockets can be populated in any order ... · SIMM socket pairs (i.e., two, 32-bit wide SIMMs) need to be populated with the same densities. · EDOs and standard page mode can both be used; however, only one type should be used per SIMM socket pair. For example, in the table shown below SIMM sockets for RAS[2:1]# can be populated with EDOs while SIMM sockets for RAS[4:3]# can be populated with standard page mode. If different memory is used for different rows, each row will be optimized for that type of memory. · The DRAM Timing Register which provides the DRAM speed grade control for the entire memory array must be programmed to use the timings of the slowest DRAMs installed. Rules for Populating DIMM or SO-DIMM modules · DIMM or SO-DIMM sockets can be populated in any order ... ===================================================================== - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Guest MEB Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. As did Franc [such happens when working offline and posting before a read]... -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com _______
Guest glee Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. **replies inline.... "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message news:0onq83p2ssaoq6ror7qufm3pgauh95n5ud@4ax.com... > On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:52:23 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> > put finger to keyboard and composed: > >>According to the manual I found online (M572V12.pdf) >>http://www.sprintcomputer.com/ftp/bios/M572/m572v12.exe: > > That looks like a BIOS update. **No, it's the manual, for some reason put into a self-extracting .exe which when downloaded and run, extracts the M572V12.pdf to the same folder. > Here is the manual: > http://www.pcchipsusa.com/Manual/M572/m572v12.pdf **Same thing, without the exe wrapper. >>Four SIMM sockets on the mainboard are divided into two banks: Bank 1 and Bank 2. >>Each bank consists of two 72-pin SIMM modules. So you have all four SIMM slots >>(both banks) filled. >> >>The two DIMM sockets are Banks 0 and 1. >> >>Bank 1 can only be EITHER one DIMM OR two SIMMs >> >>So, if you have all four SIMM sockets filled, you must put your DIMM in Bank 0, >>which is the slot labeled DIMM1, and is furthest away from the SIMM sockets, and >>closest to the processor.. >> >>This is opposite of what you have now. I do not know why it won't boot the way it >>is supposed to be installed, but will in the unsupported config. Possibly because >>it is a PC Chips mobo? <eg> >> >>There is also a jumper on the mobo...JP5...which is the DIMM voltage selector, >>toggling between 3.3v and 5v. This jumper appears to be adjacent to DIMM1. >> >>You can, at least according to the wording of the manual, get 256MB total RAM >>using >>all SIMMs or all DIMMs or in a combo in the slots I described. >> >>My own experience with that period of transitional mobos with both kinds of slots >>has been: DON'T MIX THEM. >> >>Even if they say they support a mix of SIMMs and DIMMs at the same time, they may >>not. >> >>I have a Shuttle board here from that era, with both slot types, and it absolutely >>does NOT support mixing them.....you use one or the other. It also has a voltage >>jumper for the DIMMs, depending on whether PC66 or PC100 SDRAM is installed. > > I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that all SDRAMs > required 3.3V. I believe there were early DIMMs that used FPM (fast > page mode) or EDO RAM chips - these would probably need 5V. **Sorry, I misremembered about my Shuttle board....it has a jumper to set the SDRAM frequency synchronous with the System clock, or synchronous with the AGP clock, so that you can use either 66MHz SDRAM or 100MHz PC100 SDRAM. The M572 manual does show a jumper...JP5...which it calls the DIMM voltage selector, for toggling between 3.3v and 5v. What do you suppose that is about? >>Your mystery DIMM may be PC100 and not set to proper voltage, and also the voltage >>may not be supported when used in a mix with the SIMMs. > > Intel's documentation appears to confirm this. > >>Were it me, I'd remove the DIMM. >>Hope this helps rather than adding to your confusion. > > If the OP needs to remove anything, then I'd remove the SIMMs. A > single 64MB SDRAM (?) DIMM would probably be much faster than his > present setup (10ns versus 70nS), assuming it works in slot 1 or slot > 2 on its own. In any case, Intel's documentation for the chipset > states that the slots can be populated in any order, ie bank 0 need > not be populated first. **Right, SDRAM would be preferable. I suggested otherwise only because I am not sure the DIMM he has is compatible with the mobo. > BTW, I understand the frustration with the tight sockets. Right now > I'm using a PCChips M571 (SiS 5597/5598 chipset) with the same > problem. It's been a very reliable board, though. It also has a > similar RAM configuration, although I haven't tried to mix the > modules. **I have seen very tight sockets even on recent boards....so tight it causes worry that the mobo might crack installing the RAM. > Here are excerpts from Intel's 430TX chipset datasheet. > > INTEL 430TX PCISET: 82439TX SYSTEM CONTROLLER (MTXC): > http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/29055901.pdf > > ===================================================================== > > It is not recommended to mix SDRAM (which are 3V devices) with 5V > EDO/FPM SIMMs, unless the SDRAM and EDO/FPM are properly isolated > (e.g., isolate the memory data lines with Qswitches). Mixing 5V and 3V > memory is not recommend for reliability reasons. Not all SDRAMs are 5V > tolerant. > > ===================================================================== > > Rules for Populating SIMM Modules (or x32 SO-DIMM modules) > > · SIMM sockets can be populated in any order ... > > · SIMM socket pairs (i.e., two, 32-bit wide SIMMs) need to be > populated with the same densities. > > · EDOs and standard page mode can both be used; however, only one type > should be used per SIMM socket pair. For example, in the table shown > below SIMM sockets for RAS[2:1]# can be populated with EDOs while SIMM > sockets for RAS[4:3]# can be populated with standard page mode. If > different memory is used for different rows, each row will be > optimized for that type of memory. > > · The DRAM Timing Register which provides the DRAM speed grade control > for the entire memory array must be programmed to use the timings of > the slowest DRAMs installed. > > Rules for Populating DIMM or SO-DIMM modules > > · DIMM or SO-DIMM sockets can be populated in any order ... > > ===================================================================== **Thanks for the corrections and additions, Franc....my memory ain't what it used to be (arrgh, what a pun). -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+ http://dts-l.org/ http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
Guest thanatoid Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in news:OFG6LBsvHHA.4464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl: Thanks for your reply. An update for all respondents will be posted in a few moments. > So, if you have all four SIMM sockets filled, you must put > your DIMM in Bank 0, which is the slot labeled DIMM1, and > is furthest away from the SIMM sockets, and closest to the > processor.. > > This is opposite of what you have now. I do not know why > it won't boot the way it is supposed to be installed, but > will in the unsupported config. Possibly because it is a > PC Chips mobo? <eg> I have heard a LOT of bad things about PC Chips, and were I to build a new computer now I would probably get an Intel or some other expensive MB, but while this M572 was the THIRD (the first two - actually they were 571's and there were no more in stock but the 572's just came in - died within a few days), it has been running great for almost ten years. There even used to be a web site for owners of the M572 which, while obviously having it faults, appears to have had some quite advanced features for its time. > There is also a jumper on the mobo...JP5...which is the > DIMM voltage selector, toggling between 3.3v and 5v. This > jumper appears to be adjacent to DIMM1. This is something I had no clue about... And it proved part of the problem. (See global update.) > Were it me, I'd remove the DIMM. > Hope this helps rather than adding to your confusion. I appreciate your time and suggestion. You may well be correct - time will tell. It's only been about 2 hours and so far everything is great. But who knows whether the damn thing will boot up tomorrow... And I've lived with 64MB of RAM for 9.5 years just fine... Regards t. -- Everyone who installs Vista is insane.
Guest thanatoid Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in news:0onq83p2ssaoq6ror7qufm3pgauh95n5ud@4ax.com: <SNIP> Thanks for your reply, Franc. Thanks for going to the trouble of providing all the detailed and valuable information. An update for all respondents will be posted in a few moments. Regards t. -- Everyone who installs Vista is insane.
Guest thanatoid Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in news:#Nq3qQ2vHHA.3560@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl: Thanks for your reply. An update for all respondents will be posted in a few moments. > The M572 manual does show a jumper...JP5...which it calls > the DIMM voltage selector, for toggling between 3.3v and > 5v. What do you suppose that is about? That was one of the keys to the puzzle, although BOTH voltages worked, more or less (see the global update). > **Right, SDRAM would be preferable. I suggested otherwise > only because I am not sure the DIMM he has is compatible > with the mobo. Well, it DID take 5 years to get it in the slot, but it seems to have worked OK for the last 3 hrs... > **I have seen very tight sockets even on recent > boards....so tight it causes worry that the mobo might > crack installing the RAM. I was terrified that would happen. That's why it took me 5 years to try again. Regards t. -- Everyone who installs Vista is insane.
Guest thanatoid Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in news:O3Mwky0vHHA.736@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl: Thanks for your reply. An update for all respondents will be posted in a few moments. <SNIP> > Okay, here goes: > > http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/index.html -general > info/latest info > http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/memory/index.html - > memory - newer http://www.tomshardware.com/archive.html - > older archived versions which would apply in your case. > http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/ - forums for > computer discussions > > http://bugclub.org/eric/memory/index.html - site devoted to > memory - chips - virtual - expanded/extended, etc. Thank you VERY much for all the great links. > Your mixing memory which likely does not work together. > SIMMS [single > inline 72 pin] and DIMMS [dual/double inline] are usually > mutually exclusive. Mixing DRAM/SIMM/DIMM/SDRAM is > difficult at best. See the global update. > ALSO, you specifically note difficulty > installing the module into the slot. I was just afraid of cracking the motherboard. That's why it took me 5 years to dare try again. <SNIP> > Interestingly, the Internet web information mixes the > various Module's > specifications, so its difficult to find good information. No kidding. Maddening. Actually it is surprising what good English the MB manual is written in, factual accuracy aside. Now if only the memory chips had some info (like 3.3 or 5V) on them... > Removing either bank (2 slots/one bank {72 pin}), limits > the memory by 32 > megs, so the max potentially with your chips is 96 megs. You hit the nail on the head here. That is exactly what I ended up with, the only combination that works (so far) flawlessly. In spite of what the manual and all the sites I managed to visit - in between all the crashes and BSOD's - said (ie up to 256MB). See the global update. Regards t. -- Everyone who installs Vista is insane.
Guest Franc Zabkar Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer. On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:25:37 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> put finger to keyboard and composed: >**replies inline.... >"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message >news:0onq83p2ssaoq6ror7qufm3pgauh95n5ud@4ax.com... >> On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:52:23 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> >> put finger to keyboard and composed: >> >>>According to the manual I found online (M572V12.pdf) >>>http://www.sprintcomputer.com/ftp/bios/M572/m572v12.exe: >> >> That looks like a BIOS update. > >**No, it's the manual, for some reason put into a self-extracting .exe which when >downloaded and run, extracts the M572V12.pdf to the same folder. > > >> Here is the manual: >> http://www.pcchipsusa.com/Manual/M572/m572v12.pdf > >**Same thing, without the exe wrapper. Sorry, I should have checked. >The M572 manual does show a jumper...JP5...which it calls the DIMM voltage selector, >for toggling between 3.3v and 5v. What do you suppose that is about? My M571 motherboard also has a pair of DIMM Voltage Select jumpers. I presume that the SIMM slots are hardwired for a 5V supply and that the DIMMs can have either 5V or 3.3V depending on whether they are FPM/EDO (5V or 3.3V) or SDRAM (3.3V) types. Having said that, I notice that the DIMM sockets are notched and labelled as 3.3V/UDRAM (unbuffered?). This page talks about the notches and what they mean: http://www.quepublishing.com/content/downloads/upgrading/fourteenth_edition/book_spreads/0789727455_3.pdf Here is a table of old EDO/FPM DIMMs, although they all appear to be 3.3V types: http://www.micron.com/support/eolpartlist.aspx?n=MODULES_EDO_FPM_STEP%20SEARCH%20OBSOLETE >> BTW, I understand the frustration with the tight sockets. Right now >> I'm using a PCChips M571 (SiS 5597/5598 chipset) with the same >> problem. It's been a very reliable board, though. It also has a >> similar RAM configuration, although I haven't tried to mix the >> modules. > >**I have seen very tight sockets even on recent boards....so tight it causes worry >that the mobo might crack installing the RAM. I have an insulated support underneath the DIMM slots on my M571 motherboard to prevent this. I use either an adhesive rubber foot, or a plastic standoff with the top cut off. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
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