Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

[Guest thanatoid]

Hello gang,

 

I know this is not strictly 98-related but I know there are some

real brains in here.

 

As some of you may recall, I have a computer which will be 10

years old in September. It works fine. Really.

 

Please don't just tell me to throw it in the trash and get a new

one. When it dies for good, I will. At the moment I need nothing

more.

 

{I have a 2GHz machine for things requiring more speed than

166MHz offers (which incidentally - IMHO - does not include

accessing the internet).}

 

Anyway, the almost-10-yrs-old machine has a PC Chips M572 MB,

with 6 RAM slots. 2 are DIMM, 4 are SIMM.

 

It can take a total of 256MB of memory and the manual provides 4

SIMM/DIMM configurations by which this can be achieved.

 

The 4 SIMM slots have a 16MB stick in each of them giving me

64MB of RAM. It has always been this way.

 

I happen to own a 64MB DIMM (it says 64MB 100/320/640 or

something, and has a nonsensical non-brand brand name which

escapes me at the moment). Pathetic as you undoubtedly will find

this (and hopefully pity will inspire someone to help me), I

have owned this DIMM for about 5 years but BION, just could not

get the damn thing into either of the DIMM slots. Really. I

tried and tried and it just wouldn't go in. So I just wrapped it

in some pink antistatic foam and put it in a box somewhere.

 

Well, for reasons not worth going into, today I decided to try

one more time.

 

It went in - but not after a ***LONG*** struggle with both

slots.

 

Now here's the question:

 

It is in slot DIMM2. The MB manual says "SIMM1 and SIMM2 and

DIMM2 slots can not be used at the same time".

 

It does NOT say "SIMM 1,2,3,4 and DIMM 2 can not be used at the

same time", nor does it say they can - of course.

 

When I put the DIMM into slot 1, the machine won't boot up. It

makes a few preliminary noises but then stops.

 

So the 64MB DIMM is in DIMM slot 2. The machine boots, the only

difference being that instead of making a steady beep when

"testing memory", it makes a low/slightly higher/low again

triple continuous beep.

 

It also now tells me it has 80 MB of RAM. I have, with some

effort, managed to work out that means I have gained 16 MB of

RAM from the 64 MB DIMM.

 

Actually HERE's the question, sorry. /I think of the 2 options

of saying not enough vs. too much, the 2nd is preferable, boring

as it may be. But isn't that why we're all here?/

 

I can't remember whether the 64MB DIMM has 4 or 8 chips on it,

but is 3/4 of it just dead? Is there something else going on?

Can a memory module work AT ALL when 3/4 (or whatever) of it is

NG?

 

When dealing with a 166MHz machine with 64MB of RAM, even an

extra

8MB is not unwelcome, although I have never had serious memory

problems. Still, if you HAVE an extra 64 (or 16) laying around,

why not use it (after 5 years)?

 

More importantly, can any damage be done to the machine if the

DIMM is 3/4 dead? Everything runs fine and I now have about 45

MB of RAM free once 95B boots up instead of about 30, so unless

there is a reason I should NOT, I intent to leave the ¿16/64¿

DIMM in DIMM slot 2.

 

So I guess the final question is: leave it in, take it out and

throw it in the trash, or something else yet?

 

Thank you for your patience and thank you for any replies which

may come forward.

 

Regards

t.

 

 

--

Everyone who installs Vista is insane.

[Guest glee]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

According to the manual I found online (M572V12.pdf)

http://www.sprintcomputer.com/ftp/bios/M572/m572v12.exe:

 

Four SIMM sockets on the mainboard are divided into two banks: Bank 1 and Bank 2.

Each bank consists of two 72-pin SIMM modules. So you have all four SIMM slots

(both banks) filled.

 

The two DIMM sockets are Banks 0 and 1.

 

Bank 1 can only be EITHER one DIMM OR two SIMMs

 

So, if you have all four SIMM sockets filled, you must put your DIMM in Bank 0,

which is the slot labeled DIMM1, and is furthest away from the SIMM sockets, and

closest to the processor..

 

This is opposite of what you have now. I do not know why it won't boot the way it

is supposed to be installed, but will in the unsupported config. Possibly because

it is a PC Chips mobo? <eg>

 

There is also a jumper on the mobo...JP5...which is the DIMM voltage selector,

toggling between 3.3v and 5v. This jumper appears to be adjacent to DIMM1.

 

You can, at least according to the wording of the manual, get 256MB total RAM using

all SIMMs or all DIMMs or in a combo in the slots I described.

 

My own experience with that period of transitional mobos with both kinds of slots

has been: DON'T MIX THEM.

 

Even if they say they support a mix of SIMMs and DIMMs at the same time, they may

not.

 

I have a Shuttle board here from that era, with both slot types, and it absolutely

does NOT support mixing them.....you use one or the other. It also has a voltage

jumper for the DIMMs, depending on whether PC66 or PC100 SDRAM is installed.

 

Your mystery DIMM may be PC100 and not set to proper voltage, and also the voltage

may not be supported when used in a mix with the SIMMs.

 

Were it me, I'd remove the DIMM.

Hope this helps rather than adding to your confusion.

--

Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+

http://dts-l.org/

http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

 

"thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> wrote in message

news:Xns9963E15ADB3E8thanexit@66.250.146.158...

> Hello gang,

>

> I know this is not strictly 98-related but I know there are some

> real brains in here.

>

> As some of you may recall, I have a computer which will be 10

> years old in September. It works fine. Really.

>

> Please don't just tell me to throw it in the trash and get a new

> one. When it dies for good, I will. At the moment I need nothing

> more.

>

> {I have a 2GHz machine for things requiring more speed than

> 166MHz offers (which incidentally - IMHO - does not include

> accessing the internet).}

>

> Anyway, the almost-10-yrs-old machine has a PC Chips M572 MB,

> with 6 RAM slots. 2 are DIMM, 4 are SIMM.

>

> It can take a total of 256MB of memory and the manual provides 4

> SIMM/DIMM configurations by which this can be achieved.

>

> The 4 SIMM slots have a 16MB stick in each of them giving me

> 64MB of RAM. It has always been this way.

>

> I happen to own a 64MB DIMM (it says 64MB 100/320/640 or

> something, and has a nonsensical non-brand brand name which

> escapes me at the moment). Pathetic as you undoubtedly will find

> this (and hopefully pity will inspire someone to help me), I

> have owned this DIMM for about 5 years but BION, just could not

> get the damn thing into either of the DIMM slots. Really. I

> tried and tried and it just wouldn't go in. So I just wrapped it

> in some pink antistatic foam and put it in a box somewhere.

>

> Well, for reasons not worth going into, today I decided to try

> one more time.

>

> It went in - but not after a ***LONG*** struggle with both

> slots.

>

> Now here's the question:

>

> It is in slot DIMM2. The MB manual says "SIMM1 and SIMM2 and

> DIMM2 slots can not be used at the same time".

>

> It does NOT say "SIMM 1,2,3,4 and DIMM 2 can not be used at the

> same time", nor does it say they can - of course.

>

> When I put the DIMM into slot 1, the machine won't boot up. It

> makes a few preliminary noises but then stops.

>

> So the 64MB DIMM is in DIMM slot 2. The machine boots, the only

> difference being that instead of making a steady beep when

> "testing memory", it makes a low/slightly higher/low again

> triple continuous beep.

>

> It also now tells me it has 80 MB of RAM. I have, with some

> effort, managed to work out that means I have gained 16 MB of

> RAM from the 64 MB DIMM.

>

> Actually HERE's the question, sorry. /I think of the 2 options

> of saying not enough vs. too much, the 2nd is preferable, boring

> as it may be. But isn't that why we're all here?/

>

> I can't remember whether the 64MB DIMM has 4 or 8 chips on it,

> but is 3/4 of it just dead? Is there something else going on?

> Can a memory module work AT ALL when 3/4 (or whatever) of it is

> NG?

>

> When dealing with a 166MHz machine with 64MB of RAM, even an

> extra

> 8MB is not unwelcome, although I have never had serious memory

> problems. Still, if you HAVE an extra 64 (or 16) laying around,

> why not use it (after 5 years)?

>

> More importantly, can any damage be done to the machine if the

> DIMM is 3/4 dead? Everything runs fine and I now have about 45

> MB of RAM free once 95B boots up instead of about 30, so unless

> there is a reason I should NOT, I intent to leave the ¿16/64¿

> DIMM in DIMM slot 2.

>

> So I guess the final question is: leave it in, take it out and

> throw it in the trash, or something else yet?

>

> Thank you for your patience and thank you for any replies which

> may come forward.

>

> Regards

> t.

>

>

> --

> Everyone who installs Vista is insane.

[Guest MEB]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

 

"thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> wrote in message

news:Xns9963E15ADB3E8thanexit@66.250.146.158...

| Hello gang,

|

| I know this is not strictly 98-related but I know there are some

| real brains in here.

|

| As some of you may recall, I have a computer which will be 10

| years old in September. It works fine. Really.

|

| Please don't just tell me to throw it in the trash and get a new

| one. When it dies for good, I will. At the moment I need nothing

| more.

|

| {I have a 2GHz machine for things requiring more speed than

| 166MHz offers (which incidentally - IMHO - does not include

| accessing the internet).}

|

| Anyway, the almost-10-yrs-old machine has a PC Chips M572 MB,

| with 6 RAM slots. 2 are DIMM, 4 are SIMM.

|

| It can take a total of 256MB of memory and the manual provides 4

| SIMM/DIMM configurations by which this can be achieved.

|

| The 4 SIMM slots have a 16MB stick in each of them giving me

| 64MB of RAM. It has always been this way.

|

| I happen to own a 64MB DIMM (it says 64MB 100/320/640 or

| something, and has a nonsensical non-brand brand name which

| escapes me at the moment). Pathetic as you undoubtedly will find

| this (and hopefully pity will inspire someone to help me), I

| have owned this DIMM for about 5 years but BION, just could not

| get the damn thing into either of the DIMM slots. Really. I

| tried and tried and it just wouldn't go in. So I just wrapped it

| in some pink antistatic foam and put it in a box somewhere.

|

| Well, for reasons not worth going into, today I decided to try

| one more time.

|

| It went in - but not after a ***LONG*** struggle with both

| slots.

|

| Now here's the question:

|

| It is in slot DIMM2. The MB manual says "SIMM1 and SIMM2 and

| DIMM2 slots can not be used at the same time".

|

| It does NOT say "SIMM 1,2,3,4 and DIMM 2 can not be used at the

| same time", nor does it say they can - of course.

|

| When I put the DIMM into slot 1, the machine won't boot up. It

| makes a few preliminary noises but then stops.

|

| So the 64MB DIMM is in DIMM slot 2. The machine boots, the only

| difference being that instead of making a steady beep when

| "testing memory", it makes a low/slightly higher/low again

| triple continuous beep.

|

| It also now tells me it has 80 MB of RAM. I have, with some

| effort, managed to work out that means I have gained 16 MB of

| RAM from the 64 MB DIMM.

|

| Actually HERE's the question, sorry. /I think of the 2 options

| of saying not enough vs. too much, the 2nd is preferable, boring

| as it may be. But isn't that why we're all here?/

|

| I can't remember whether the 64MB DIMM has 4 or 8 chips on it,

| but is 3/4 of it just dead? Is there something else going on?

| Can a memory module work AT ALL when 3/4 (or whatever) of it is

| NG?

|

| When dealing with a 166MHz machine with 64MB of RAM, even an

| extra

| 8MB is not unwelcome, although I have never had serious memory

| problems. Still, if you HAVE an extra 64 (or 16) laying around,

| why not use it (after 5 years)?

|

| More importantly, can any damage be done to the machine if the

| DIMM is 3/4 dead? Everything runs fine and I now have about 45

| MB of RAM free once 95B boots up instead of about 30, so unless

| there is a reason I should NOT, I intent to leave the ¿16/64¿

| DIMM in DIMM slot 2.

|

| So I guess the final question is: leave it in, take it out and

| throw it in the trash, or something else yet?

|

| Thank you for your patience and thank you for any replies which

| may come forward.

|

| Regards

| t.

|

|

| --

| Everyone who installs Vista is insane.

 

Okay, here goes:

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/index.html -general info/latest info

http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/memory/index.html - memory - newer

http://www.tomshardware.com/archive.html - older archived versions which

would apply in your case.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/ - forums for computer discussions

 

http://bugclub.org/eric/memory/index.html - site devoted to memory - chips -

virtual - expanded/extended, etc.

 

Your mixing memory which likely does not work together. SIMMS [single

inline 72 pin] and DIMMS [dual/double inline] are usually mutually

exclusive. Mixing DRAM/SIMM/DIMM/SDRAM is difficult at best. ALSO, you

specifically note difficulty installing the module into the slot.

NOTE: the module may have been a 172, or other *pin/finger* rather than

168, OR your slot may have a slightly different slot configuration

{pinwise}. Sometimes the *break* is off by a few *fingers*, indicating

proprietary modules, or it may be JEDEC or otherwise special. For example, I

have 2 - 8 meg JEDEC DIMM modules which work ONLY in certain Gateways

[bought it back when memory was REALLY expensive for a customer who then

balked at the buy].

 

Interestingly, the Internet web information mixes the various Module's

specifications, so its difficult to find good information.

 

YOUR MANUAL CLAIMS:

 

- Supports 64M-bit (16Mx4, 8Mx8, 4Mx16)

DRAM/SDRAM technology

- Provides 4 x 72-pin SIMM modules auto banking in

multiple configuration up to 256MB and also, 2 x

168-pin DIMM to support SDRAM/EDO

DRAM/Page Mode DRAM up to 256MB

 

THE CONFIG AVAILABLE IS SUPPOSEDLY:

Bank 1

SIMM1 & SIMM2

(72-pin SIMM)

 

DIMM2

(168-pin DIMM)

2 x 4MB/8MB/16MB/32MB/64MB

or

4MB, 8MB, 16MB, 32MB, 64MB, 128MB

 

YET THE NOTES SAY:

 

Notes: 1. SIMM1 & 2 and DIMM2, these two types of DRAM module

can not be used at the same time.

2. The speed of all SIMMs and DIMM modules have to be

faster than 70ns.

3. Use 2 DRAM types: Fast Page Mode or Extend DATA Out

(EDO) for SIMM socket.

4. Use 3 DRAM types: Fast Page Mode, Extend Data Out

(EDO), or synchronous DRAM (SDRAM) for DIMM

socket.

----

 

Which generally mean you would have to remove the first bank [1 & 2] of 72

pin chips to free the memory area for DIMM 1 [which is usually the shared

memory configuration {DIMM1 and SIMM 1&2} both can NOT be used together], OR

it may mean DIMM 1 and SIMM 3 & 4 can be used together [the generally

acceptable].

 

HOWEVER:

Their claim [per the notes, pictures, and manual] is that slot 1&2 SIMM

and slot1 DIMM work together which is usually a conflict, though the maker

of the manual may have listed/pictured the slots differently verses the

Notes verses many other boards. This board's shared memory, is slots 1&2 [72

pin] and slot 2 [168]

I find this typical of older foreign boards; they may have conflicting or

poorly explained information, as this apparently is.

Removing either bank (2 slots/one bank {72 pin}), limits the memory by 32

megs, so the max potentially with your chips is 96 megs.

 

NOTE SPECIFICALLY: most board manufacturers [of that era boards] included

statements to NOT mix the two types of memory due to addressing issues.

Moreover, should it work, you are limited to the generally slower speed and

addressing of the SIMM/DRAM. Generally 60 or 70 NS for the SIMMs, verses 8

or 10 NS for the DIMM.

My FIC will support a mix, but there are times when it would error out in

memory intensive progs like PhotoShop, when configged that way.

 

TWO other variables: the module may be of another chip configuration than

the 3 supported types; the voltage may need set and/or the Front Side Bus

speed [FSB].

 

Glen supplied relevant information.

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

 

________

[Guest Franc Zabkar]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:52:23 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>

put finger to keyboard and composed:

>According to the manual I found online (M572V12.pdf)

>http://www.sprintcomputer.com/ftp/bios/M572/m572v12.exe:

 

That looks like a BIOS update.

 

Here is the manual:

http://www.pcchipsusa.com/Manual/M572/m572v12.pdf

>Four SIMM sockets on the mainboard are divided into two banks: Bank 1 and Bank 2.

>Each bank consists of two 72-pin SIMM modules. So you have all four SIMM slots

>(both banks) filled.

>

>The two DIMM sockets are Banks 0 and 1.

>

>Bank 1 can only be EITHER one DIMM OR two SIMMs

>

>So, if you have all four SIMM sockets filled, you must put your DIMM in Bank 0,

>which is the slot labeled DIMM1, and is furthest away from the SIMM sockets, and

>closest to the processor..

>

>This is opposite of what you have now. I do not know why it won't boot the way it

>is supposed to be installed, but will in the unsupported config. Possibly because

>it is a PC Chips mobo? <eg>

>

>There is also a jumper on the mobo...JP5...which is the DIMM voltage selector,

>toggling between 3.3v and 5v. This jumper appears to be adjacent to DIMM1.

>

>You can, at least according to the wording of the manual, get 256MB total RAM using

>all SIMMs or all DIMMs or in a combo in the slots I described.

>

>My own experience with that period of transitional mobos with both kinds of slots

>has been: DON'T MIX THEM.

>

>Even if they say they support a mix of SIMMs and DIMMs at the same time, they may

>not.

>

>I have a Shuttle board here from that era, with both slot types, and it absolutely

>does NOT support mixing them.....you use one or the other. It also has a voltage

>jumper for the DIMMs, depending on whether PC66 or PC100 SDRAM is installed.

 

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that all SDRAMs

required 3.3V. I believe there were early DIMMs that used FPM (fast

page mode) or EDO RAM chips - these would probably need 5V.

>Your mystery DIMM may be PC100 and not set to proper voltage, and also the voltage

>may not be supported when used in a mix with the SIMMs.

 

Intel's documentation appears to confirm this.

>Were it me, I'd remove the DIMM.

>Hope this helps rather than adding to your confusion.

 

If the OP needs to remove anything, then I'd remove the SIMMs. A

single 64MB SDRAM (?) DIMM would probably be much faster than his

present setup (10ns versus 70nS), assuming it works in slot 1 or slot

2 on its own. In any case, Intel's documentation for the chipset

states that the slots can be populated in any order, ie bank 0 need

not be populated first.

 

BTW, I understand the frustration with the tight sockets. Right now

I'm using a PCChips M571 (SiS 5597/5598 chipset) with the same

problem. It's been a very reliable board, though. It also has a

similar RAM configuration, although I haven't tried to mix the

modules.

 

Here are excerpts from Intel's 430TX chipset datasheet.

 

INTEL 430TX PCISET: 82439TX SYSTEM CONTROLLER (MTXC):

http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/29055901.pdf

 

=====================================================================

 

It is not recommended to mix SDRAM (which are 3V devices) with 5V

EDO/FPM SIMMs, unless the SDRAM and EDO/FPM are properly isolated

(e.g., isolate the memory data lines with Qswitches). Mixing 5V and 3V

memory is not recommend for reliability reasons. Not all SDRAMs are 5V

tolerant.

 

=====================================================================

 

Rules for Populating SIMM Modules (or x32 SO-DIMM modules)

 

· SIMM sockets can be populated in any order ...

 

· SIMM socket pairs (i.e., two, 32-bit wide SIMMs) need to be

populated with the same densities.

 

· EDOs and standard page mode can both be used; however, only one type

should be used per SIMM socket pair. For example, in the table shown

below SIMM sockets for RAS[2:1]# can be populated with EDOs while SIMM

sockets for RAS[4:3]# can be populated with standard page mode. If

different memory is used for different rows, each row will be

optimized for that type of memory.

 

· The DRAM Timing Register which provides the DRAM speed grade control

for the entire memory array must be programmed to use the timings of

the slowest DRAMs installed.

 

Rules for Populating DIMM or SO-DIMM modules

 

· DIMM or SO-DIMM sockets can be populated in any order ...

 

=====================================================================

 

- Franc Zabkar

--

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

[Guest MEB]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

As did Franc [such happens when working offline and posting before a

read]...

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

_______

[Guest glee]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

**replies inline....

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

news:0onq83p2ssaoq6ror7qufm3pgauh95n5ud@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:52:23 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>

> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>

>>According to the manual I found online (M572V12.pdf)

>>http://www.sprintcomputer.com/ftp/bios/M572/m572v12.exe:

>

> That looks like a BIOS update.

 

**No, it's the manual, for some reason put into a self-extracting .exe which when

downloaded and run, extracts the M572V12.pdf to the same folder.

 

> Here is the manual:

> http://www.pcchipsusa.com/Manual/M572/m572v12.pdf

 

**Same thing, without the exe wrapper.

 

>>Four SIMM sockets on the mainboard are divided into two banks: Bank 1 and Bank 2.

>>Each bank consists of two 72-pin SIMM modules. So you have all four SIMM slots

>>(both banks) filled.

>>

>>The two DIMM sockets are Banks 0 and 1.

>>

>>Bank 1 can only be EITHER one DIMM OR two SIMMs

>>

>>So, if you have all four SIMM sockets filled, you must put your DIMM in Bank 0,

>>which is the slot labeled DIMM1, and is furthest away from the SIMM sockets, and

>>closest to the processor..

>>

>>This is opposite of what you have now. I do not know why it won't boot the way it

>>is supposed to be installed, but will in the unsupported config. Possibly because

>>it is a PC Chips mobo? <eg>

>>

>>There is also a jumper on the mobo...JP5...which is the DIMM voltage selector,

>>toggling between 3.3v and 5v. This jumper appears to be adjacent to DIMM1.

>>

>>You can, at least according to the wording of the manual, get 256MB total RAM

>>using

>>all SIMMs or all DIMMs or in a combo in the slots I described.

>>

>>My own experience with that period of transitional mobos with both kinds of slots

>>has been: DON'T MIX THEM.

>>

>>Even if they say they support a mix of SIMMs and DIMMs at the same time, they may

>>not.

>>

>>I have a Shuttle board here from that era, with both slot types, and it absolutely

>>does NOT support mixing them.....you use one or the other. It also has a voltage

>>jumper for the DIMMs, depending on whether PC66 or PC100 SDRAM is installed.

>

> I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that all SDRAMs

> required 3.3V. I believe there were early DIMMs that used FPM (fast

> page mode) or EDO RAM chips - these would probably need 5V.

 

**Sorry, I misremembered about my Shuttle board....it has a jumper to set the SDRAM

frequency synchronous with the System clock, or synchronous with the AGP clock, so

that you can use either 66MHz SDRAM or 100MHz PC100 SDRAM.

 

The M572 manual does show a jumper...JP5...which it calls the DIMM voltage selector,

for toggling between 3.3v and 5v. What do you suppose that is about?

 

>>Your mystery DIMM may be PC100 and not set to proper voltage, and also the voltage

>>may not be supported when used in a mix with the SIMMs.

>

> Intel's documentation appears to confirm this.

>

>>Were it me, I'd remove the DIMM.

>>Hope this helps rather than adding to your confusion.

>

> If the OP needs to remove anything, then I'd remove the SIMMs. A

> single 64MB SDRAM (?) DIMM would probably be much faster than his

> present setup (10ns versus 70nS), assuming it works in slot 1 or slot

> 2 on its own. In any case, Intel's documentation for the chipset

> states that the slots can be populated in any order, ie bank 0 need

> not be populated first.

 

**Right, SDRAM would be preferable. I suggested otherwise only because I am not

sure the DIMM he has is compatible with the mobo.

 

> BTW, I understand the frustration with the tight sockets. Right now

> I'm using a PCChips M571 (SiS 5597/5598 chipset) with the same

> problem. It's been a very reliable board, though. It also has a

> similar RAM configuration, although I haven't tried to mix the

> modules.

 

**I have seen very tight sockets even on recent boards....so tight it causes worry

that the mobo might crack installing the RAM.

 

> Here are excerpts from Intel's 430TX chipset datasheet.

>

> INTEL 430TX PCISET: 82439TX SYSTEM CONTROLLER (MTXC):

> http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/29055901.pdf

>

> =====================================================================

>

> It is not recommended to mix SDRAM (which are 3V devices) with 5V

> EDO/FPM SIMMs, unless the SDRAM and EDO/FPM are properly isolated

> (e.g., isolate the memory data lines with Qswitches). Mixing 5V and 3V

> memory is not recommend for reliability reasons. Not all SDRAMs are 5V

> tolerant.

>

> =====================================================================

>

> Rules for Populating SIMM Modules (or x32 SO-DIMM modules)

>

> · SIMM sockets can be populated in any order ...

>

> · SIMM socket pairs (i.e., two, 32-bit wide SIMMs) need to be

> populated with the same densities.

>

> · EDOs and standard page mode can both be used; however, only one type

> should be used per SIMM socket pair. For example, in the table shown

> below SIMM sockets for RAS[2:1]# can be populated with EDOs while SIMM

> sockets for RAS[4:3]# can be populated with standard page mode. If

> different memory is used for different rows, each row will be

> optimized for that type of memory.

>

> · The DRAM Timing Register which provides the DRAM speed grade control

> for the entire memory array must be programmed to use the timings of

> the slowest DRAMs installed.

>

> Rules for Populating DIMM or SO-DIMM modules

>

> · DIMM or SO-DIMM sockets can be populated in any order ...

>

> =====================================================================

 

**Thanks for the corrections and additions, Franc....my memory ain't what it used to

be (arrgh, what a pun).

--

Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+

http://dts-l.org/

http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

[Guest thanatoid]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in

news:OFG6LBsvHHA.4464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

 

Thanks for your reply. An update for all respondents will be

posted in a few moments.

> So, if you have all four SIMM sockets filled, you must put

> your DIMM in Bank 0, which is the slot labeled DIMM1, and

> is furthest away from the SIMM sockets, and closest to the

> processor..

>

> This is opposite of what you have now. I do not know why

> it won't boot the way it is supposed to be installed, but

> will in the unsupported config. Possibly because it is a

> PC Chips mobo? <eg>

 

I have heard a LOT of bad things about PC Chips, and were I to

build a new computer now I would probably get an Intel or some

other expensive MB, but while this M572 was the THIRD (the first

two - actually they were 571's and there were no more in stock

but the 572's just came in - died within a few days), it has

been running great for almost ten years. There even used to be a

web site for owners of the M572 which, while obviously having it

faults, appears to have had some quite advanced features for its

time.

> There is also a jumper on the mobo...JP5...which is the

> DIMM voltage selector, toggling between 3.3v and 5v. This

> jumper appears to be adjacent to DIMM1.

 

This is something I had no clue about... And it proved part of

the problem. (See global update.)

> Were it me, I'd remove the DIMM.

> Hope this helps rather than adding to your confusion.

 

I appreciate your time and suggestion. You may well be correct -

time will tell. It's only been about 2 hours and so far

everything is great. But who knows whether the damn thing will

boot up tomorrow... And I've lived with 64MB of RAM for 9.5

years just fine...

 

Regards

t.

 

 

--

Everyone who installs Vista is insane.

[Guest thanatoid]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in

news:0onq83p2ssaoq6ror7qufm3pgauh95n5ud@4ax.com:

 

<SNIP>

 

Thanks for your reply, Franc.

 

Thanks for going to the trouble of providing all the detailed

and valuable information.

 

An update for all respondents will be posted in a few moments.

 

Regards

t.

 

 

--

Everyone who installs Vista is insane.

[Guest thanatoid]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in

news:#Nq3qQ2vHHA.3560@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

 

Thanks for your reply. An update for all respondents will be

posted in a few moments.

> The M572 manual does show a jumper...JP5...which it calls

> the DIMM voltage selector, for toggling between 3.3v and

> 5v. What do you suppose that is about?

 

That was one of the keys to the puzzle, although BOTH voltages

worked, more or less (see the global update).

> **Right, SDRAM would be preferable. I suggested otherwise

> only because I am not sure the DIMM he has is compatible

> with the mobo.

 

Well, it DID take 5 years to get it in the slot, but it seems to

have worked OK for the last 3 hrs...

> **I have seen very tight sockets even on recent

> boards....so tight it causes worry that the mobo might

> crack installing the RAM.

 

I was terrified that would happen. That's why it took me 5 years

to try again.

 

Regards

t.

 

--

Everyone who installs Vista is insane.

[Guest thanatoid]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in

news:O3Mwky0vHHA.736@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

 

Thanks for your reply. An update for all respondents will be

posted in a few moments.

 

<SNIP>

> Okay, here goes:

>

> http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/index.html -general

> info/latest info

> http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/memory/index.html -

> memory - newer http://www.tomshardware.com/archive.html -

> older archived versions which would apply in your case.

> http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/ - forums for

> computer discussions

>

> http://bugclub.org/eric/memory/index.html - site devoted to

> memory - chips - virtual - expanded/extended, etc.

 

Thank you VERY much for all the great links.

> Your mixing memory which likely does not work together.

> SIMMS [single

> inline 72 pin] and DIMMS [dual/double inline] are usually

> mutually exclusive. Mixing DRAM/SIMM/DIMM/SDRAM is

> difficult at best.

 

See the global update.

> ALSO, you specifically note difficulty

> installing the module into the slot.

 

I was just afraid of cracking the motherboard. That's why it

took me 5 years to dare try again.

 

<SNIP>

> Interestingly, the Internet web information mixes the

> various Module's

> specifications, so its difficult to find good information.

 

No kidding. Maddening. Actually it is surprising what good

English the MB manual is written in, factual accuracy aside. Now

if only the memory chips had some info (like 3.3 or 5V) on

them...

> Removing either bank (2 slots/one bank {72 pin}), limits

> the memory by 32

> megs, so the max potentially with your chips is 96 megs.

 

You hit the nail on the head here. That is exactly what I ended

up with, the only combination that works (so far) flawlessly. In

spite of what the manual and all the sites I managed to visit -

in between all the crashes and BSOD's - said (ie up to 256MB).

 

See the global update.

 

Regards

t.

 

 

--

Everyone who installs Vista is insane.

[Guest Franc Zabkar]

Re: Question about SIMM and DIMM combination in an old computer.

 

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:25:37 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>

put finger to keyboard and composed:

>**replies inline....

>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

>news:0onq83p2ssaoq6ror7qufm3pgauh95n5ud@4ax.com...

>> On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:52:23 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>

>> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>>

>>>According to the manual I found online (M572V12.pdf)

>>>http://www.sprintcomputer.com/ftp/bios/M572/m572v12.exe:

>>

>> That looks like a BIOS update.

>

>**No, it's the manual, for some reason put into a self-extracting .exe which when

>downloaded and run, extracts the M572V12.pdf to the same folder.

>

>

>> Here is the manual:

>> http://www.pcchipsusa.com/Manual/M572/m572v12.pdf

>

>**Same thing, without the exe wrapper.

 

Sorry, I should have checked.

>The M572 manual does show a jumper...JP5...which it calls the DIMM voltage selector,

>for toggling between 3.3v and 5v. What do you suppose that is about?

 

My M571 motherboard also has a pair of DIMM Voltage Select jumpers. I

presume that the SIMM slots are hardwired for a 5V supply and that the

DIMMs can have either 5V or 3.3V depending on whether they are FPM/EDO

(5V or 3.3V) or SDRAM (3.3V) types. Having said that, I notice that

the DIMM sockets are notched and labelled as 3.3V/UDRAM (unbuffered?).

 

This page talks about the notches and what they mean:

http://www.quepublishing.com/content/downloads/upgrading/fourteenth_edition/book_spreads/0789727455_3.pdf

 

Here is a table of old EDO/FPM DIMMs, although they all appear to be

3.3V types:

http://www.micron.com/support/eolpartlist.aspx?n=MODULES_EDO_FPM_STEP%20SEARCH%20OBSOLETE

>> BTW, I understand the frustration with the tight sockets. Right now

>> I'm using a PCChips M571 (SiS 5597/5598 chipset) with the same

>> problem. It's been a very reliable board, though. It also has a

>> similar RAM configuration, although I haven't tried to mix the

>> modules.

>

>**I have seen very tight sockets even on recent boards....so tight it causes worry

>that the mobo might crack installing the RAM.

 

I have an insulated support underneath the DIMM slots on my M571

motherboard to prevent this. I use either an adhesive rubber foot, or

a plastic standoff with the top cut off.

 

- Franc Zabkar

--

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.