Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

[Guest Tamiami]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

Rick Chauvin wrote:

> "Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

> news:469bcc41$0$12188$4c368faf@roadrunner.com

>> Rick Chauvin wrote:

>>> Just a fyi & fwiw......

>>>

>>> Being curious about it for my setup I made time to play..

>>>

>>> ~I updated from my v77.72 drivers to your v82.16 and yes I do get

>>> shutdown problems too, and a few other issues as well; otherwise the

>>> drivers work fine.

>>>

>>> ~I then updated to MDGx driver v82.69 hoping for that to do better, but

>>> the shutdown problems were still there along with other problems;

>>> otherwise the drivers do work okay.

>>>

>>> ~I went back to my original v77.72 drivers and everything for my setup

>>> is back to normal with no problems per-sey.

>>>

>>> Rick

>> Thanks for the follow through and updates Rick. No, I haven't had time

>> for the massive driver test (hope to sometime this week), so I can't say

>> anything about the unofficial 82.69 installation yet. Although, if

>> you're not having much success, I'm guessing I won't either. May have

>> to try the 77.72 package.

>

> It can't hurt to try the 82.69 really, and just becasue I had issues with it

> does not mean you will since your setup is different.

>

>

>> FWIW, I DO think it's BFG's fault. They marketed this card to work with

>> older MB's, AGP and 98SE and their tech support didn't support at all.

>

> I understand you point and support that.

>

>> Actually claiming to have conquered the shutdown problem on 98SE with a

>> different BIOS version on a different card during their own testing and

>> then - "allegedly" planning for an exchange with me. And that's the

>> last I heard from them. After repeated emails and months of

>> frustration. Obviously they had no fix and were just humping me.

>

> Can't hurt to call them again, keep your position friendly but firm with it

> though so that they don't turn off to you, you will get more mileage doing it

> that way - you know what I mean.

>

>> If the 82.16 driver package never worked with 98SE and the 7800GS AGP,

>> then they shouldn't have promoted that it would. Let alone including

>> the disc with the retail package.

>

> I'm not taking their side and just talking outloud here, but have seen

> situations with other software's where something would work for hundreds of

> people but an isolated problem would only show up just for one and there is no

> way for them to have known that until it happened. Keep the pressure on them,

> lightly. Also, make sure you go through all the Shutdown links around here and

> try everything first before going on since there were many things that solve

> shutdown problems with W98 and some worked for others where others worked for

> some - get a handle on them all. Mine was somewhat different since it was a

> protection error and so that falls into the next subject category, but it's a

> reaction with my unique setup and the newer drivers.

>

> Rick

>

 

Hello again Rick and MEB,

 

Well, no luck with 82.69. It wouldn't even install. Declaring a

warning that read, "The driver installation package has NOT detected any

Nvidia chips in this machine!" Go figure. So, I'm back to 82.16 just

to write this and the protection errors on shutdown resume. Any other

ideas would be appreciated.

 

I'll tell you one thing - I will NEVER buy anything BFG or Nvidia again

as long as I live!

 

Thanks again.

 

 

--

STOP using Google NOW! Protect your personal privacy.

[Guest MEB]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

 

"Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

news:469ec6c5$0$16589$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

| Rick Chauvin wrote:

| > "Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

| > news:469bcc41$0$12188$4c368faf@roadrunner.com

| >> Rick Chauvin wrote:

| >>> Just a fyi & fwiw......

| >>>

| >>> Being curious about it for my setup I made time to play..

| >>>

| >>> ~I updated from my v77.72 drivers to your v82.16 and yes I do get

| >>> shutdown problems too, and a few other issues as well; otherwise the

| >>> drivers work fine.

| >>>

| >>> ~I then updated to MDGx driver v82.69 hoping for that to do better,

but

| >>> the shutdown problems were still there along with other problems;

| >>> otherwise the drivers do work okay.

| >>>

| >>> ~I went back to my original v77.72 drivers and everything for my setup

| >>> is back to normal with no problems per-sey.

| >>>

| >>> Rick

| >> Thanks for the follow through and updates Rick. No, I haven't had time

| >> for the massive driver test (hope to sometime this week), so I can't

say

| >> anything about the unofficial 82.69 installation yet. Although, if

| >> you're not having much success, I'm guessing I won't either. May have

| >> to try the 77.72 package.

| >

| > It can't hurt to try the 82.69 really, and just becasue I had issues

with it

| > does not mean you will since your setup is different.

| >

| >

| >> FWIW, I DO think it's BFG's fault. They marketed this card to work

with

| >> older MB's, AGP and 98SE and their tech support didn't support at all.

| >

| > I understand you point and support that.

| >

| >> Actually claiming to have conquered the shutdown problem on 98SE with a

| >> different BIOS version on a different card during their own testing and

| >> then - "allegedly" planning for an exchange with me. And that's the

| >> last I heard from them. After repeated emails and months of

| >> frustration. Obviously they had no fix and were just humping me.

| >

| > Can't hurt to call them again, keep your position friendly but firm with

it

| > though so that they don't turn off to you, you will get more mileage

doing it

| > that way - you know what I mean.

| >

| >> If the 82.16 driver package never worked with 98SE and the 7800GS AGP,

| >> then they shouldn't have promoted that it would. Let alone including

| >> the disc with the retail package.

| >

| > I'm not taking their side and just talking outloud here, but have seen

| > situations with other software's where something would work for hundreds

of

| > people but an isolated problem would only show up just for one and there

is no

| > way for them to have known that until it happened. Keep the pressure on

them,

| > lightly. Also, make sure you go through all the Shutdown links around

here and

| > try everything first before going on since there were many things that

solve

| > shutdown problems with W98 and some worked for others where others

worked for

| > some - get a handle on them all. Mine was somewhat different since it

was a

| > protection error and so that falls into the next subject category, but

it's a

| > reaction with my unique setup and the newer drivers.

| >

| > Rick

| >

|

| Hello again Rick and MEB,

|

| Well, no luck with 82.69. It wouldn't even install. Declaring a

| warning that read, "The driver installation package has NOT detected any

| Nvidia chips in this machine!" Go figure. So, I'm back to 82.16 just

| to write this and the protection errors on shutdown resume. Any other

| ideas would be appreciated.

|

| I'll tell you one thing - I will NEVER buy anything BFG or Nvidia again

| as long as I live!

|

| Thanks again.

|

|

| --

| STOP using Google NOW! Protect your personal privacy.

 

Well, that is a real let down... I never looked at the 82.16 perhaps I

should...

 

I have now been able to get shutdown lock ups with the 82.69... had to use

an old game {Homeworld, with everything visual turned on, highest settings,

1024x768, and *OpenGL*... something else to deal with later ...}

 

Okay, time to look around for other drivers I suppose......

[Guest Rick Chauvin]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

"Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

news:469ec6c5$0$16589$4c368faf@roadrunner.com

> Well, no luck with 82.69. It wouldn't even install. Declaring a

> warning that read, "The driver installation package has NOT detected any

> Nvidia chips in this machine!" Go figure. So, I'm back to 82.16 just

> to write this and the protection errors on shutdown resume. Any other

> ideas would be appreciated.

 

First you should pursue BFG in the ways I've metioned in previous posts and

properly exhaust all possibilities since you have no other ways.

 

Secondly, I don't want to be responsible for you having problems with any

mod's I suggest and so I will not hand lead you in doing that, sorry - even

though of course my desire is to want to help you solve your problem just

as much as you want to solve it yourself.. but I must decline.

 

Also as mentioned before, unless you have complete Partition Image

Backup/Restore capabilities you should not proceed.

 

....this next paragraph is in parentheses because it's written to and for

myself... iow disclaimer!

(However if I personally were in your shoes and driving, I would work with

BFG right from day one to solve the problem and not let that opportunity

ever lapse, to the point if they did not resolve it would have taken a

refund - however for me and speaking for and to myself only...I would

first extract the 82.16 installer and the 82.69 installer, remove the

Nvagp.inf from the 82.69 folder and replace it with the Nvaml.inf from

your 82.16 folder - and do a manual driver update using DeviceManager

choosing 'all the right screen prompts' and Browse the driver update to

that unpacked 82.69 folder, press Okay and install it, after it's

installed, say No at the prompt to automatically reboot in both places,

then do a restart from Start> Shutdown> Restart instead, which in most

cases prevents the common nVidia driver install reboot hangs.

I would do this above simple procedure for a number of reasons, but in

short to say because I know my Nvaml.inf that came with my 7800 has itself

identified within needed for that card, as well knowing since the rest of

the install files in both versions folders are the same except of course

the 82.69's are updated files - that it will install; however realizing

upfront realistically since the 6600GT and the 82.69 drivers have a

protection error on shutdown issues, then I would not be surprised that the

7800 GS would do the same thing too - but you never know and it's just a

harmless fun play test to see what's up. The same scenario I would try for

each near same version nVidia '9x' driver that I wanted to try (including

the less likely paired 7800 GS to 77.72 drivers) ..but in all cases to see

which ones would work or not - knowing I've done it before with identical

filed drivers and many times works with success, and sometimes not ..but

also knowing since I have a full current dated C:\ partition backup I would

have everything to gain and nothing to loose; again and again I would never

do video or any mod's without a partition backup! - did I mention that too

many times yet;)

...end of conversation to self...

 

Alternatively back to your reality, for you though when it comes to just

the 82.69 drivers and your card, you could just do what it says to do if

they won't install on your card by reading and following what it says to do

in it's instructions... <quote>

" * In case Setup says your video card is not recognized or supported and

then..." ...the rest of the paragraph can be found here:

http://www.mdgx.com/files/nv8269.php

...and going forward all questions about your problems should be posted

here: http://www.msfn.org/board/?showtopic=97140

> I'll tell you one thing - I will NEVER buy anything BFG or Nvidia again

> as long as I live!

 

Okay that's fine, but BFG is known out there to be one rockin video card;

sorry you had a 9x problem with it.

 

Best,

 

Rick

> Thanks again.

>

>

> --

[Guest MEB]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

 

"Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

news:469ec6c5$0$16589$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

| Rick Chauvin wrote:

| > "Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

| > news:469bcc41$0$12188$4c368faf@roadrunner.com

| >> Rick Chauvin wrote:

| >>> Just a fyi & fwiw......

| >>>

| >>> Being curious about it for my setup I made time to play..

| >>>

| >>> ~I updated from my v77.72 drivers to your v82.16 and yes I do get

| >>> shutdown problems too, and a few other issues as well; otherwise the

| >>> drivers work fine.

| >>>

| >>> ~I then updated to MDGx driver v82.69 hoping for that to do better,

but

| >>> the shutdown problems were still there along with other problems;

| >>> otherwise the drivers do work okay.

| >>>

| >>> ~I went back to my original v77.72 drivers and everything for my setup

| >>> is back to normal with no problems per-sey.

| >>>

| >>> Rick

| >> Thanks for the follow through and updates Rick. No, I haven't had time

| >> for the massive driver test (hope to sometime this week), so I can't

say

| >> anything about the unofficial 82.69 installation yet. Although, if

| >> you're not having much success, I'm guessing I won't either. May have

| >> to try the 77.72 package.

| >

| > It can't hurt to try the 82.69 really, and just becasue I had issues

with it

| > does not mean you will since your setup is different.

| >

| >

| >> FWIW, I DO think it's BFG's fault. They marketed this card to work

with

| >> older MB's, AGP and 98SE and their tech support didn't support at all.

| >

| > I understand you point and support that.

| >

| >> Actually claiming to have conquered the shutdown problem on 98SE with a

| >> different BIOS version on a different card during their own testing and

| >> then - "allegedly" planning for an exchange with me. And that's the

| >> last I heard from them. After repeated emails and months of

| >> frustration. Obviously they had no fix and were just humping me.

| >

| > Can't hurt to call them again, keep your position friendly but firm with

it

| > though so that they don't turn off to you, you will get more mileage

doing it

| > that way - you know what I mean.

| >

| >> If the 82.16 driver package never worked with 98SE and the 7800GS AGP,

| >> then they shouldn't have promoted that it would. Let alone including

| >> the disc with the retail package.

| >

| > I'm not taking their side and just talking outloud here, but have seen

| > situations with other software's where something would work for hundreds

of

| > people but an isolated problem would only show up just for one and there

is no

| > way for them to have known that until it happened. Keep the pressure on

them,

| > lightly. Also, make sure you go through all the Shutdown links around

here and

| > try everything first before going on since there were many things that

solve

| > shutdown problems with W98 and some worked for others where others

worked for

| > some - get a handle on them all. Mine was somewhat different since it

was a

| > protection error and so that falls into the next subject category, but

it's a

| > reaction with my unique setup and the newer drivers.

| >

| > Rick

| >

|

| Hello again Rick and MEB,

|

| Well, no luck with 82.69. It wouldn't even install. Declaring a

| warning that read, "The driver installation package has NOT detected any

| Nvidia chips in this machine!" Go figure. So, I'm back to 82.16 just

| to write this and the protection errors on shutdown resume. Any other

| ideas would be appreciated.

|

| I'll tell you one thing - I will NEVER buy anything BFG or Nvidia again

| as long as I live!

|

| Thanks again.

|

|

| --

| STOP using Google NOW! Protect your personal privacy.

 

To be fair, most manufacturers are in the same boat as we [the users] are,

no Microsoft support, and per this discussion, no nVidia support. Same holds

true for all the now *niche* manufacturers that continue attempting support

for 9X/ME. So all that's accomplished has to potentially come from the

users... and geeks. Unless they are old established manufacturers, they have

to rely on their likely inexperienced driver/hardware people.

 

Okay, comparing the two files; 82.69 - nvagp.inf *verses* the 82.16 -

nvaml.inf:

They are basically the same [per UEdit32 side by side compare] except for

the shortened *headers*, the registry tweaks, some added modes to each

card/chip, and more supported card/chips in the 69; and several empty

settings in the 16.

NVAML does appear to indicate that your card was a manual addition, as the

cards between 6800 and the 7800 GS [your card] are not included [hence it is

not an official nVidia universal driver, but another hack/attempt to support

98].

 

If you're still into testing a potential driver and still have both files:

replace the nvagp.inf in the 82.69 with the nvaml.inf from 82.16, make sure

you remove all traces of the old 16 nVidia driver [which means going to the

pci 640x480 VGA first], and try the installation with the newly modified

82.69 version. Note also, that gives an older International version due to

the inclusion of those International *Help* files included with the 82.69

file verses the 82.16. If you wish to spend the time, you could swap the all

the newer files from one to the other...

 

This will also likely *require* that you use the INF file to install rather

than the setup or self-extractor/self installation , [unless the setup files

are also swapped]... I did NOT test this though. All of the newer "important

files" are the 82.69 version. [in fact, I still question why you got that

installer error,, but ... heck if your really into it, a cut and paste of

the reg tweaks from 69 into the nvaml, would just about make the two infs

equal in that regard]

 

Here is the standard install, though you will be required to un-install the

old driver, then you should restart once more [after] to fully installing

the default VGA driver [i usually recommend a start into Safe Mode also,

seems to clear and reset some extra stuff. Also kill the 386 swap file from

DOS mode, so it can be recreated WITHOUT any potential residuals]. THEN

proceed to the nVidia install section using the INF install method.

 

Installation instructions

-------------------------

Windows 98

----------

 

To prepare for installation of the drivers

 

1 Start Microsoft Windows 98.

 

2 Click the Start button, point to Settings, and click Control Panel.

 

3 Double-click Display, and click the Settings tab.

 

4 Click Advanced, click the Adapter tab, then click Change.

 

5 Click Next, click Display a list of all the drivers in a specific

location, so

you can select the driver you want, then click Next.

 

6 Select Show all Hardware button, then select the Standard display types

from

the Manufacturers list.

 

7 Select Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) from the list, then select

Next.

 

8 Click Next to install the driver, then click Finish.

 

9 Click Apply, then click Close.

 

10 Click Yes when Windows asks if you wish to restart the computer.

 

 

 

To install the drivers

 

1 Click the Start button, point to Settings, and click Control Panel.

 

2 Double-click Display, and click the Settings tab.

 

3 Click Advanced, click the Adapter tab, then click Change.

 

4 Click Next, click Display a list of all the drivers in a specific

location, so

you can select the driver you want, then click Next.

 

5 Click Have Disk, select or type the path to the folder containing the

driver

files, then click OK.

 

Windows should find files for your NVIDIA graphics chip. If Windows

cannot

find the files, check that the path name for the driver files is correct.

 

6 If Windows found the files, click OK, then click Next.

 

Windows copies the files to the hard disk.

 

7 Click Finish, click Apply, then click Close.

 

8 Click Yes when Windows asks if you wish to restart the computer.

 

----------

 

Meanwhile, I think I'm going to look for other potential drivers...

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

[Guest MEB]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

opps sorry Rick, I see we had the same idea... just a different way to get

there..

 

Say, I couldn't duplicate the lock-up without OpenGL involved... wasn't

there some tweaks for that.. course the two of you have errors which appear

different...

 

Or was that related to one of Microsoft's updates,,, I know I had

difficulties with a driver because of one,, but which one... hmmm now I have

to go back through all that saved material,, shoot...

[Guest Rick Chauvin]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:eclemkmyHHA.5408@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl

> opps sorry Rick, I see we had the same idea... just a different way to

> get there..

>

> Say, I couldn't duplicate the lock-up without OpenGL involved... wasn't

> there some tweaks for that.. course the two of you have errors which

> appear different...

>

> Or was that related to one of Microsoft's updates,,, I know I had

> difficulties with a driver because of one,, but which one... hmmm now I

> have to go back through all that saved material,, shoot...

 

It's hard to compare your PCI FX 5500 with the video chips they use with my

AGP 6600GT and his AGP 7800GS when testing with these new drivers for you

to get actuality. The new drivers pick up the older card chips okay, but

especially when it comes to Win9x & OpenGL/DirectX with the 6600 and up

cards as far as Win9x is concerned, because of Win9x life cycle ending so

developers refocused, some things were never refined and so we find that

the 6600 and up series video cards where some video applications won't work

with OpenGL and have to use DirectX 9 to run it, or vice-versa, and so it's

been a trade off depending. I've run into quite a few instances of this in

my own setups... which reminds some recent issues I've had with other video

projects I was working with OpenGL vrs DirectX.. ..I may even drop back to

drivers v71.84 on 9x for my particular 6600 GT card because iirc in my

cards applications, the v71.84 were even more stable than v77.72 when it

comes to using it on 9x.

 

As a matter of fact in-between typing this I decided to do just that and

installed v71.84 which is btw just a few months in build time earlier. I

see it is true, for me anyway, it solved some W98SE DirectX vrs OpenGL

problems I've had with a few video applications where I could not run one

or the other on either program, but with this driver version I can.

As well now I'm hoping for some other stability's issues not discussed to

have resolve themselves too.

 

This reminds me that we have to keep in mind, let's say like for your card

MEB and even mine, where even earlier drivers version supports our cards

just fine, and we do know from experience that when they are developing

these drivers using current video cards they develop it to a high standard

as they go along, but then! ..as new video card models come out they start

evolving the driver versions to accommodate not only those cards but also

newer multi OS issues as well - my point is - you know as well as I

invariably those changes, although unintentionally, actually start

bug'ing/breaking/making unstable some of the previous accomplishments for

previously refined setups. ...iow, in the majority of instances it could

be better to use the drivers that were prime developed for your hardware's

era; latest version drivers do not always mean better when it comes to

these subjects of Win9x compatibility.

 

Rick

[Guest Tamiami]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

MEB wrote:

> "Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

> news:469ec6c5$0$16589$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> | Rick Chauvin wrote:

> | > "Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

> | > news:469bcc41$0$12188$4c368faf@roadrunner.com

> | >> Rick Chauvin wrote:

> | >>> Just a fyi & fwiw......

> | >>>

> | >>> Being curious about it for my setup I made time to play..

> | >>>

> | >>> ~I updated from my v77.72 drivers to your v82.16 and yes I do get

> | >>> shutdown problems too, and a few other issues as well; otherwise the

> | >>> drivers work fine.

> | >>>

> | >>> ~I then updated to MDGx driver v82.69 hoping for that to do better,

> but

> | >>> the shutdown problems were still there along with other problems;

> | >>> otherwise the drivers do work okay.

> | >>>

> | >>> ~I went back to my original v77.72 drivers and everything for my setup

> | >>> is back to normal with no problems per-sey.

> | >>>

> | >>> Rick

> | >> Thanks for the follow through and updates Rick. No, I haven't had time

> | >> for the massive driver test (hope to sometime this week), so I can't

> say

> | >> anything about the unofficial 82.69 installation yet. Although, if

> | >> you're not having much success, I'm guessing I won't either. May have

> | >> to try the 77.72 package.

> | >

> | > It can't hurt to try the 82.69 really, and just becasue I had issues

> with it

> | > does not mean you will since your setup is different.

> | >

> | >

> | >> FWIW, I DO think it's BFG's fault. They marketed this card to work

> with

> | >> older MB's, AGP and 98SE and their tech support didn't support at all.

> | >

> | > I understand you point and support that.

> | >

> | >> Actually claiming to have conquered the shutdown problem on 98SE with a

> | >> different BIOS version on a different card during their own testing and

> | >> then - "allegedly" planning for an exchange with me. And that's the

> | >> last I heard from them. After repeated emails and months of

> | >> frustration. Obviously they had no fix and were just humping me.

> | >

> | > Can't hurt to call them again, keep your position friendly but firm with

> it

> | > though so that they don't turn off to you, you will get more mileage

> doing it

> | > that way - you know what I mean.

> | >

> | >> If the 82.16 driver package never worked with 98SE and the 7800GS AGP,

> | >> then they shouldn't have promoted that it would. Let alone including

> | >> the disc with the retail package.

> | >

> | > I'm not taking their side and just talking outloud here, but have seen

> | > situations with other software's where something would work for hundreds

> of

> | > people but an isolated problem would only show up just for one and there

> is no

> | > way for them to have known that until it happened. Keep the pressure on

> them,

> | > lightly. Also, make sure you go through all the Shutdown links around

> here and

> | > try everything first before going on since there were many things that

> solve

> | > shutdown problems with W98 and some worked for others where others

> worked for

> | > some - get a handle on them all. Mine was somewhat different since it

> was a

> | > protection error and so that falls into the next subject category, but

> it's a

> | > reaction with my unique setup and the newer drivers.

> | >

> | > Rick

> | >

> |

> | Hello again Rick and MEB,

> |

> | Well, no luck with 82.69. It wouldn't even install. Declaring a

> | warning that read, "The driver installation package has NOT detected any

> | Nvidia chips in this machine!" Go figure. So, I'm back to 82.16 just

> | to write this and the protection errors on shutdown resume. Any other

> | ideas would be appreciated.

> |

> | I'll tell you one thing - I will NEVER buy anything BFG or Nvidia again

> | as long as I live!

> |

> | Thanks again.

> |

> |

> | --

> | STOP using Google NOW! Protect your personal privacy.

>

> To be fair, most manufacturers are in the same boat as we [the users] are,

> no Microsoft support, and per this discussion, no nVidia support. Same holds

> true for all the now *niche* manufacturers that continue attempting support

> for 9X/ME. So all that's accomplished has to potentially come from the

> users... and geeks. Unless they are old established manufacturers, they have

> to rely on their likely inexperienced driver/hardware people.

>

> Okay, comparing the two files; 82.69 - nvagp.inf *verses* the 82.16 -

> nvaml.inf:

> They are basically the same [per UEdit32 side by side compare] except for

> the shortened *headers*, the registry tweaks, some added modes to each

> card/chip, and more supported card/chips in the 69; and several empty

> settings in the 16.

> NVAML does appear to indicate that your card was a manual addition, as the

> cards between 6800 and the 7800 GS [your card] are not included [hence it is

> not an official nVidia universal driver, but another hack/attempt to support

> 98].

>

> If you're still into testing a potential driver and still have both files:

> replace the nvagp.inf in the 82.69 with the nvaml.inf from 82.16, make sure

> you remove all traces of the old 16 nVidia driver [which means going to the

> pci 640x480 VGA first], and try the installation with the newly modified

> 82.69 version. Note also, that gives an older International version due to

> the inclusion of those International *Help* files included with the 82.69

> file verses the 82.16. If you wish to spend the time, you could swap the all

> the newer files from one to the other...

>

> This will also likely *require* that you use the INF file to install rather

> than the setup or self-extractor/self installation , [unless the setup files

> are also swapped]... I did NOT test this though. All of the newer "important

> files" are the 82.69 version. [in fact, I still question why you got that

> installer error,, but ... heck if your really into it, a cut and paste of

> the reg tweaks from 69 into the nvaml, would just about make the two infs

> equal in that regard]

>

> Here is the standard install, though you will be required to un-install the

> old driver, then you should restart once more [after] to fully installing

> the default VGA driver [i usually recommend a start into Safe Mode also,

> seems to clear and reset some extra stuff. Also kill the 386 swap file from

> DOS mode, so it can be recreated WITHOUT any potential residuals]. THEN

> proceed to the nVidia install section using the INF install method.

>

> Installation instructions

> -------------------------

> Windows 98

> ----------

>

> To prepare for installation of the drivers

>

> 1 Start Microsoft Windows 98.

>

> 2 Click the Start button, point to Settings, and click Control Panel.

>

> 3 Double-click Display, and click the Settings tab.

>

> 4 Click Advanced, click the Adapter tab, then click Change.

>

> 5 Click Next, click Display a list of all the drivers in a specific

> location, so

> you can select the driver you want, then click Next.

>

> 6 Select Show all Hardware button, then select the Standard display types

> from

> the Manufacturers list.

>

> 7 Select Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) from the list, then select

> Next.

>

> 8 Click Next to install the driver, then click Finish.

>

> 9 Click Apply, then click Close.

>

> 10 Click Yes when Windows asks if you wish to restart the computer.

>

>

>

> To install the drivers

>

> 1 Click the Start button, point to Settings, and click Control Panel.

>

> 2 Double-click Display, and click the Settings tab.

>

> 3 Click Advanced, click the Adapter tab, then click Change.

>

> 4 Click Next, click Display a list of all the drivers in a specific

> location, so

> you can select the driver you want, then click Next.

>

> 5 Click Have Disk, select or type the path to the folder containing the

> driver

> files, then click OK.

>

> Windows should find files for your NVIDIA graphics chip. If Windows

> cannot

> find the files, check that the path name for the driver files is correct.

>

> 6 If Windows found the files, click OK, then click Next.

>

> Windows copies the files to the hard disk.

>

> 7 Click Finish, click Apply, then click Close.

>

> 8 Click Yes when Windows asks if you wish to restart the computer.

>

> ----------

>

> Meanwhile, I think I'm going to look for other potential drivers...

>

 

Thank you for the detailed instructions MEB. Unfortunately do to sudden

family related travel plans it may be a while before I can try it. Just

wanted to let you know that I truly appreciate your efforts and even if

it takes several months for me to apply your ideas, I will definitely

post back and let you know how it goes.

 

Thanks again.

 

--

STOP using Google NOW! Protect your personal privacy.

[Guest MEB]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

 

 

"Rick Chauvin" <justask@nospamz.com> wrote in message

news:uMiLTt6yHHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

| news:eclemkmyHHA.5408@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl

| > opps sorry Rick, I see we had the same idea... just a different way to

| > get there..

| >

| > Say, I couldn't duplicate the lock-up without OpenGL involved... wasn't

| > there some tweaks for that.. course the two of you have errors which

| > appear different...

| >

| > Or was that related to one of Microsoft's updates,,, I know I had

| > difficulties with a driver because of one,, but which one... hmmm now I

| > have to go back through all that saved material,, shoot...

|

| It's hard to compare your PCI FX 5500 with the video chips they use with

my

| AGP 6600GT and his AGP 7800GS when testing with these new drivers for you

| to get actuality. The new drivers pick up the older card chips okay, but

| especially when it comes to Win9x & OpenGL/DirectX with the 6600 and up

| cards as far as Win9x is concerned, because of Win9x life cycle ending so

| developers refocused, some things were never refined and so we find that

| the 6600 and up series video cards where some video applications won't

work

| with OpenGL and have to use DirectX 9 to run it, or vice-versa, and so

it's

| been a trade off depending. I've run into quite a few instances of this

in

| my own setups... which reminds some recent issues I've had with other

video

| projects I was working with OpenGL vrs DirectX.. ..I may even drop back to

| drivers v71.84 on 9x for my particular 6600 GT card because iirc in my

| cards applications, the v71.84 were even more stable than v77.72 when it

| comes to using it on 9x.

 

As you noted, it is extremely difficult, unless one has the actual

cards/chipsets one is resting against [testing against - think legal

weighing], to advise of any potential tweaks and modifications which might

allow and/or correct any errors, particularly related to the variables which

come to play, such as applications, tweaks, etc. of other's configurations.

I have noted when the two of us discuss issues alone those lines, we, at

least, make note of the potentials involved. Which, to be honest, is why I

like these types of discussions with you. Regardless of potential

disagreements, those are noted within the discussions.

 

Along the line of dropping back to older drivers, I'm sure you've

considered, that the newer drivers generally apply aspects related, not only

to enhancements within the chips/cards, but also within the DirectX and

OpenGL releases. Drop back too far and one shuts off aspects such as

enhancements and bug fixes.

Such as, my card/chipset supports DirectX 9.0 as well as aspects of OpenGL,

WITHIN the video BIOS. To obtain full support, requires I would at least

stay with the supported aspects, e.g. dropping back to Detonator series

drivers shows no support for my card/chipset and the needed aspects. Such

was found when looking at potentials for Tamiami's card and the local files

I have.

 

I [again] tested this with this last install: failing to install any

version of DirectX 9.0 [staying with, was it 5? first, then 8] with the

expected associated issues while using the 77.72 driver, prior to testing

the 82.69.

 

It was noticed, such as during the previous lack of support for the TNT by

nVidia, that one must find the *sweet spot* drivers, pending any further

support [which of course is non-issue for 9X and nVidia, unless there is a

resurgence of overwhelming 9X demand {as if}].

 

|

| As a matter of fact in-between typing this I decided to do just that and

| installed v71.84 which is btw just a few months in build time earlier. I

| see it is true, for me anyway, it solved some W98SE DirectX vrs OpenGL

| problems I've had with a few video applications where I could not run one

| or the other on either program, but with this driver version I can.

| As well now I'm hoping for some other stability's issues not discussed to

| have resolve themselves too.

 

That's encouraging. Would this driver [i don't have it locally] perhaps

supply support for Tamiami's card, e.g. was that card available during that

card/chipset release period?

 

|

| This reminds me that we have to keep in mind, let's say like for your card

| MEB and even mine, where even earlier drivers version supports our cards

| just fine, and we do know from experience that when they are developing

| these drivers using current video cards they develop it to a high standard

| as they go along, but then! ..as new video card models come out they start

| evolving the driver versions to accommodate not only those cards but also

| newer multi OS issues as well - my point is - you know as well as I

| invariably those changes, although unintentionally, actually start

| bug'ing/breaking/making unstable some of the previous accomplishments for

| previously refined setups. ...iow, in the majority of instances it could

| be better to use the drivers that were prime developed for your hardware's

| era; latest version drivers do not always mean better when it comes to

| these subjects of Win9x compatibility.

|

| Rick

|

 

Sadly, that is the harsh truth associated with modified drivers. It would

appear that the second release [bug fix] or some subset, produced for the

respective card/chipset, MAY be the best choice or candidate for

modification, as long as such modification supports the necessary

requirements of the intended 9X environment and DirectX and OpenGL

[thankfully VESA has become an essential non-issue unless dealing with DOS

or DOS box activities, or old games or applications] supported within the

specific target video BIOS.

 

Or the second consideration: acceptance of potential decreased performance

and errors and lack of full chip/card support PENDING the creation of a

compatible driver [should that occur].

 

Moreover, REALIZATION that cards/chipsets produced after end of 9X support

may never have those produced unless some interested party makes effort

[generally due to personal need, as such modification DOES require the

actual chip/card]. Here the *user* aspect and *users supporting other users*

IS the defining characteristic.

 

Regretfully, nVidia's ftp server [and site] apparently does not supply all

of the sub-set releases or modifications which may [potentially] have been

supplied to individuals or groups to correct specific issues.. and again,

here is the *users supporting users*. Without the ability to review these

"private" fixes, others are left blind. {Same holds true for

private/personal fixes from Microsoft related to the OS (or any other

application/program).}

 

As we both noted, this is all *trial and error*, PARTICULARLY as you note,

supposed new OS enhancements ARE making their way into the drivers and MUST

be taken into consideration during present and future driver modifications

[and not just for video]. Those who fail to take this under consideration

during the modification process, are likely to fail in their modification

attempts.

 

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

[Guest MEB]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

 

 

"Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

news:46a21502$0$4735$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

| MEB wrote:

| > "Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

| > news:469ec6c5$0$16589$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

| > | Rick Chauvin wrote:

| > | > "Tamiami" <nospam@noway.moc> wrote in message

| > | > news:469bcc41$0$12188$4c368faf@roadrunner.com

| > | >> Rick Chauvin wrote:

| > | >>> Just a fyi & fwiw......

| > | >>>

| > | >>> Being curious about it for my setup I made time to play..

| > | >>>

| > | >>> ~I updated from my v77.72 drivers to your v82.16 and yes I do get

| > | >>> shutdown problems too, and a few other issues as well; otherwise

the

| > | >>> drivers work fine.

| > | >>>

| > | >>> ~I then updated to MDGx driver v82.69 hoping for that to do

better,

| > but

| > | >>> the shutdown problems were still there along with other problems;

| > | >>> otherwise the drivers do work okay.

| > | >>>

| > | >>> ~I went back to my original v77.72 drivers and everything for my

setup

| > | >>> is back to normal with no problems per-sey.

| > | >>>

| > | >>> Rick

| > | >> Thanks for the follow through and updates Rick. No, I haven't had

time

| > | >> for the massive driver test (hope to sometime this week), so I

can't

| > say

| > | >> anything about the unofficial 82.69 installation yet. Although, if

| > | >> you're not having much success, I'm guessing I won't either. May

have

| > | >> to try the 77.72 package.

| > | >

| > | > It can't hurt to try the 82.69 really, and just becasue I had issues

| > with it

| > | > does not mean you will since your setup is different.

| > | >

| > | >

| > | >> FWIW, I DO think it's BFG's fault. They marketed this card to work

| > with

| > | >> older MB's, AGP and 98SE and their tech support didn't support at

all.

| > | >

| > | > I understand you point and support that.

| > | >

| > | >> Actually claiming to have conquered the shutdown problem on 98SE

with a

| > | >> different BIOS version on a different card during their own testing

and

| > | >> then - "allegedly" planning for an exchange with me. And that's

the

| > | >> last I heard from them. After repeated emails and months of

| > | >> frustration. Obviously they had no fix and were just humping me.

| > | >

| > | > Can't hurt to call them again, keep your position friendly but firm

with

| > it

| > | > though so that they don't turn off to you, you will get more mileage

| > doing it

| > | > that way - you know what I mean.

| > | >

| > | >> If the 82.16 driver package never worked with 98SE and the 7800GS

AGP,

| > | >> then they shouldn't have promoted that it would. Let alone

including

| > | >> the disc with the retail package.

| > | >

| > | > I'm not taking their side and just talking outloud here, but have

seen

| > | > situations with other software's where something would work for

hundreds

| > of

| > | > people but an isolated problem would only show up just for one and

there

| > is no

| > | > way for them to have known that until it happened. Keep the

pressure on

| > them,

| > | > lightly. Also, make sure you go through all the Shutdown links

around

| > here and

| > | > try everything first before going on since there were many things

that

| > solve

| > | > shutdown problems with W98 and some worked for others where others

| > worked for

| > | > some - get a handle on them all. Mine was somewhat different since

it

| > was a

| > | > protection error and so that falls into the next subject category,

but

| > it's a

| > | > reaction with my unique setup and the newer drivers.

| > | >

| > | > Rick

| > | >

| > |

| > | Hello again Rick and MEB,

| > |

| > | Well, no luck with 82.69. It wouldn't even install. Declaring a

| > | warning that read, "The driver installation package has NOT detected

any

| > | Nvidia chips in this machine!" Go figure. So, I'm back to 82.16 just

| > | to write this and the protection errors on shutdown resume. Any other

| > | ideas would be appreciated.

| > |

| > | I'll tell you one thing - I will NEVER buy anything BFG or Nvidia

again

| > | as long as I live!

| > |

| > | Thanks again.

| > |

| > |

| > | --

| > | STOP using Google NOW! Protect your personal privacy.

| >

| > To be fair, most manufacturers are in the same boat as we [the users]

are,

| > no Microsoft support, and per this discussion, no nVidia support. Same

holds

| > true for all the now *niche* manufacturers that continue attempting

support

| > for 9X/ME. So all that's accomplished has to potentially come from the

| > users... and geeks. Unless they are old established manufacturers, they

have

| > to rely on their likely inexperienced driver/hardware people.

| >

| > Okay, comparing the two files; 82.69 - nvagp.inf *verses* the 82.16 -

| > nvaml.inf:

| > They are basically the same [per UEdit32 side by side compare] except

for

| > the shortened *headers*, the registry tweaks, some added modes to each

| > card/chip, and more supported card/chips in the 69; and several empty

| > settings in the 16.

| > NVAML does appear to indicate that your card was a manual addition, as

the

| > cards between 6800 and the 7800 GS [your card] are not included [hence

it is

| > not an official nVidia universal driver, but another hack/attempt to

support

| > 98].

| >

| > If you're still into testing a potential driver and still have both

files:

| > replace the nvagp.inf in the 82.69 with the nvaml.inf from 82.16, make

sure

| > you remove all traces of the old 16 nVidia driver [which means going to

the

| > pci 640x480 VGA first], and try the installation with the newly modified

| > 82.69 version. Note also, that gives an older International version due

to

| > the inclusion of those International *Help* files included with the

82.69

| > file verses the 82.16. If you wish to spend the time, you could swap the

all

| > the newer files from one to the other...

| >

| > This will also likely *require* that you use the INF file to install

rather

| > than the setup or self-extractor/self installation , [unless the setup

files

| > are also swapped]... I did NOT test this though. All of the newer

"important

| > files" are the 82.69 version. [in fact, I still question why you got

that

| > installer error,, but ... heck if your really into it, a cut and paste

of

| > the reg tweaks from 69 into the nvaml, would just about make the two

infs

| > equal in that regard]

| >

| > Here is the standard install, though you will be required to un-install

the

| > old driver, then you should restart once more [after] to fully

installing

| > the default VGA driver [i usually recommend a start into Safe Mode also,

| > seems to clear and reset some extra stuff. Also kill the 386 swap file

from

| > DOS mode, so it can be recreated WITHOUT any potential residuals]. THEN

| > proceed to the nVidia install section using the INF install method.

| >

| > Installation instructions

| > -------------------------

| > Windows 98

| > ----------

| >

| > To prepare for installation of the drivers

| >

| > 1 Start Microsoft Windows 98.

| >

| > 2 Click the Start button, point to Settings, and click Control Panel.

| >

| > 3 Double-click Display, and click the Settings tab.

| >

| > 4 Click Advanced, click the Adapter tab, then click Change.

| >

| > 5 Click Next, click Display a list of all the drivers in a specific

| > location, so

| > you can select the driver you want, then click Next.

| >

| > 6 Select Show all Hardware button, then select the Standard display

types

| > from

| > the Manufacturers list.

| >

| > 7 Select Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) from the list, then select

| > Next.

| >

| > 8 Click Next to install the driver, then click Finish.

| >

| > 9 Click Apply, then click Close.

| >

| > 10 Click Yes when Windows asks if you wish to restart the computer.

| >

| >

| >

| > To install the drivers

| >

| > 1 Click the Start button, point to Settings, and click Control Panel.

| >

| > 2 Double-click Display, and click the Settings tab.

| >

| > 3 Click Advanced, click the Adapter tab, then click Change.

| >

| > 4 Click Next, click Display a list of all the drivers in a specific

| > location, so

| > you can select the driver you want, then click Next.

| >

| > 5 Click Have Disk, select or type the path to the folder containing the

| > driver

| > files, then click OK.

| >

| > Windows should find files for your NVIDIA graphics chip. If Windows

| > cannot

| > find the files, check that the path name for the driver files is

correct.

| >

| > 6 If Windows found the files, click OK, then click Next.

| >

| > Windows copies the files to the hard disk.

| >

| > 7 Click Finish, click Apply, then click Close.

| >

| > 8 Click Yes when Windows asks if you wish to restart the computer.

| >

| > ----------

| >

| > Meanwhile, I think I'm going to look for other potential drivers...

| >

|

| Thank you for the detailed instructions MEB. Unfortunately do to sudden

| family related travel plans it may be a while before I can try it. Just

| wanted to let you know that I truly appreciate your efforts and even if

| it takes several months for me to apply your ideas, I will definitely

| post back and let you know how it goes.

|

| Thanks again.

|

| --

| STOP using Google NOW! Protect your personal privacy.

 

PLEASE do. WHENEVER it should occur.

 

Without YOUR information, the issue remains unresolved. Moreover, we or

others who might help resolve any issues can not work for such resolution.

 

Have a good trip; stay safe; observe and remember ALL you find and see; do

try to find the indications which show EVERYONE on this small planet

basically wishes the same things; and above all, have FUN ... catch you when

you return ;-) [barring extenuating circumstances]

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

[Guest MEB]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

Well you inspired me, I uninstalled the 82.69 and reverted to the earliest

driver I have for my card, 61.76 {07/12/04} [though I really didn't go

through ALL the CDs so I may have older].

Strangely, though I see support up to 6800GT, I see no support for your

6600GT in the INF. Surely the 6600 came out before the 6800. Yet the 77

does... its just another *NV30* card

 

Heck it even has:

NVIDIA&DEV_00FD.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA Quadro PCI-E Series", another NV30 {a

candidate for PCI-e mod}, which is missing in the 77.72

 

AND is listed as this string:

UninstDisplayName="NVIDIA Windows 95/98/ME Display Drivers".

 

Anyway; letting the config/driver settle in for a day or two, before I run

some tests... though I'm sure I ran the tests before, and probably even had

{long ago deleted} 3Dmark and Winstone results as well

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

[Guest Rick Chauvin]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:e$ecCwCzHHA.2224@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl

 

[...]

> Strangely, though I see support up to 6800GT, I see no support for your

> 6600GT in the INF. Surely the 6600 came out before the 6800. Yet the 77

> does... its just another *NV30* card

 

My card starts with the v66.42 drivers and up.. .if I wanted to test/use

something before which I don't, I would adapt it like I mentioned before.

I have all the versions of drivers saved locally anyway.

 

There use to be the whitebunny site where you could get all the in-between

beta/leaked drviers for everthing, but I see within the last 6 months or so

there are no offline, but there is still

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?cat=10&sort=&page=3 to get lots of

them anyway

> Along the line of dropping back to older drivers, I'm sure you've

> considered, that the newer drivers generally apply aspects related, not

> only to enhancements within the chips/cards, but also within the DirectX

> and OpenGL releases. Drop back too far and one shuts off aspects such as

> enhancements and bug fixes.

 

Sure I understand, but my point was not to go back that far, but when you

get a year out from your cards development, then all the changes are mostly

bug fixes for this game or that, or fixes for other OS's, and compatibility

upgrades for newer cards - all of which many times break things backwards..

but I understand your point. Take for instance the 7x.x & 8x.x drivers -

they cause me more issues than do good, and I've read every release notes

that comes with all the drivers (and btw I have all the versions saved

locally) and I can see all the listings for bug fixes in my 6600 series

cards and none of it is important, afaics.

> That's encouraging. Would this driver [i don't have it locally] perhaps

> supply support for Tamiami's card, e.g. was that card available during

> that card/chipset release period?

 

I never go by the nVidia release notes for card compatibility since they

are always always lacking on that, but always unzip the exe and look at the

install inf itself.. and that's where you know the real answer to what

cards it supports; but No the 7800 is not in there, but if it was my card

as I outlined before is the way how I would make it compatible, just to try

of course.

 

Anyway, points all taken in your two recent posts, so that's all for this

thread.

 

have a good day,

 

Rick

>

> --

> MEB

> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

> ________

[Guest MEB]

Re: Nvidia Driver Shutdown Problem

 

Nuff said, perhaps we've sparked some thought process..

 

Oh, thanks for the link, and it appears you will be the "go to guy" for info

since you have all the drivers locally.

 

Thanks again for the disco...

 

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________