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Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP


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Posted

I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers. I have no interest in

purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

 

so,

 

What is the magic for backing up without a Floppy Drive in Windows?

 

How do I make a Floppy Image so I can finish my Backup in Windows?

 

Thank you

Guest peter
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

What do you have?? CD ?? DVD?? 2nd HD ???

The "magic" is to back up to a specific folder of your choosing on the HD

and then use a 3rd party burning program that will burn spanned volumes ..CD

or DVD.This of course depends upon the size of the backup...a few items will

be able to be burned to a CD with XP's native burning program. so long you

do not exceed the capacity of the CD.DVD's you will need a seperate program

as XP does not natively burn to DVD's.If the backup is bigger than the

CD/DVD then you will need a burning program that is capable of continuing

the burn on a 2nd/3rd/4th CD/DVD.

Nero does this as do some others and chances are if you have a CD/DVD you

have a program for that task.

peter

 

"Mars" <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:819FDB57-E09B-4C76-B1F4-BE767354F4BF@microsoft.com...

>I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers. I have no interest

>in

> purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

>

> so,

>

> What is the magic for backing up without a Floppy Drive in Windows?

>

> How do I make a Floppy Image so I can finish my Backup in Windows?

>

> Thank you

Guest Patrick Keenan
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

"Mars" <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:819FDB57-E09B-4C76-B1F4-BE767354F4BF@microsoft.com...

>I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers.

 

A common enough scenario. Laptops haven't come with floppies for some time

now.

> I have no interest in

> purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

 

It's perhaps $20-$30 for a USB floppy that you can attach to any system.

They work very well, as long as the floppies work.

 

I see internal floppy drives for maybe $12, but then you have to open the PC

case.

> so,

>

> What is the magic for backing up without a Floppy Drive in Windows?

 

IIRC, you don't need a floppy to backup your data, only the system state if

you are using ASR.

> How do I make a Floppy Image so I can finish my Backup in Windows?

>

> Thank you

 

Well, a starting point mught well be choosing a backup program or method

that does not require a floppy drive.

 

For example, Acronis TrueImage and Norton Ghost don't require floppies at

any point in the process, and you will get a complete, quickly restorable

system image. And from what I observe here, these images are *much* more

reliable than the results of ntbackup.

 

And it's very easy to mount the image file and verify the files. After

all, backups are less than worthless if they failed. Verification is

essential.

 

However, this may require that you purchase multiple copies of software,

which, as it happens, will be somewhat more than the price of the single USB

floppy you can move from system to system as needed.

 

Ultimately, it's up to you, and what you consider the value of your time and

data to be. I personally use Acronis True Image, and there's a free

trial, so you can check it out for two weeks.

 

HTH

-pk

Guest Uncle Grumpy
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

Mars <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers. I have no interest in

>purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

 

You'd not be able to efficiently backup anything if you used floppies

anyway.

 

CD works, but it's clunky and requires a lot of those as well. Best

solution is an external hard drive.

Guest Xenomorph
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

??????????????????

 

what would a FLOPPY DRIVE have to do with backing up Windows??

 

this isn't Windows 3.1

 

 

 

 

 

"Mars" <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:819FDB57-E09B-4C76-B1F4-BE767354F4BF@microsoft.com...

>I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers. I have no interest

>in

> purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

>

> so,

>

> What is the magic for backing up without a Floppy Drive in Windows?

>

> How do I make a Floppy Image so I can finish my Backup in Windows?

>

> Thank you

Posted

RE: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

To everyone who wrote....

 

Wow, this is my first time asking a question in a Microsoft Windows Forum.

Not exactly the same experience as when asking in other forums.

 

Okay, should I start off by saying, " I love Microsoft, I think they are the

greatest company in the world and make the best darn software I ever did

use,.... please help." ?

 

hehehehe,

 

So, essentially I'm not a hard core windows geek, and my only experience

with command line tasks have been with Bash. I do remember using DOS back in

the good ole days when purchasing an old X86 with a monochrome monitor was

somehow a step up from my Commodore 64.

 

So, why am I saying this?

 

Because I do not know what all these acronyms are in Windows. Think of me as

a neophyte and someone who would like to embrace Windows, and does not have

much patience for silly remarks, unless of course they come from my nephew.

 

So back to my original Question I was asking:

 

I have used the BackUp application which comes with Windows XP Pro. It's

free and makes sense to use whatever utilities come with the operating system.

 

I do not wish to purchase a floppy disk driver, I don't care if it costs

less than bowl of cherries, I'd rather buy the cherries thank you.

 

Every operating system I have used has a nice quick utility for creating "

disk images " I am looking how to create a "floppy disk image" for windows

xp.

 

Why?

 

Because after backing up "All information on my Computer" using "Backup" it

asks me to insert a floppy disk so that restore information can be saved.

 

I am backing up everything because I am hoping that if Windows XPpro gibbles

on me again, ( This largely do to some sort of issue with ArcGIS Info and a

developer tool set I installed improperly.. I assume) I can simply restore my

system to my latest Backup and not go through the full 12hr + reinstallation

of Windows XP, it's many updates, then ArcGIS, it's many updates, then all

the dependancies updates.

 

So now that you know I am not an operating system wizard, not an acronym

juggler, not interested in purchasing a floppy drive, that I do wish to

embrace XP and what it can offer, and am interested in finding a nice simple

solution, any takers?

 

oh Yes, I back up to a hard drive. That hard drive gets mirrored to another

hard drive and all my hard drives get once again backed up to an offsite

location. So yes, my time and data are very important to me.

 

Please forgive me for not being very clear in the first post, this operating

system is kinda new to me.

 

Thank you.

 

Mars

Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

I am back up to multiple Hard drives.

 

Why do you have to use a third party app and create a CD or DVD hardcopy for

a system restore backup?

 

 

"peter" wrote:

> What do you have?? CD ?? DVD?? 2nd HD ???

> The "magic" is to back up to a specific folder of your choosing on the HD

> and then use a 3rd party burning program that will burn spanned volumes ..CD

> or DVD.This of course depends upon the size of the backup...a few items will

> be able to be burned to a CD with XP's native burning program. so long you

> do not exceed the capacity of the CD.DVD's you will need a seperate program

> as XP does not natively burn to DVD's.If the backup is bigger than the

> CD/DVD then you will need a burning program that is capable of continuing

> the burn on a 2nd/3rd/4th CD/DVD.

> Nero does this as do some others and chances are if you have a CD/DVD you

> have a program for that task.

> peter

>

> "Mars" <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:819FDB57-E09B-4C76-B1F4-BE767354F4BF@microsoft.com...

> >I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers. I have no interest

> >in

> > purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

> >

> > so,

> >

> > What is the magic for backing up without a Floppy Drive in Windows?

> >

> > How do I make a Floppy Image so I can finish my Backup in Windows?

> >

> > Thank you

>

>

>

Guest M.I.5¾
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

 

"peter" <peter@nowhere.net> wrote in message

news:hWgli.107571$xq1.104712@pd7urf1no...

> What do you have?? CD ?? DVD?? 2nd HD ???

> The "magic" is to back up to a specific folder of your choosing on the HD

> and then use a 3rd party burning program that will burn spanned volumes

> ..CD or DVD.This of course depends upon the size of the backup...a few

> items will be able to be burned to a CD with XP's native burning program.

> so long you do not exceed the capacity of the CD.DVD's you will need a

> seperate program as XP does not natively burn to DVD's.If the backup is

> bigger than the CD/DVD then you will need a burning program that is

> capable of continuing the burn on a 2nd/3rd/4th CD/DVD.

> Nero does this as do some others and chances are if you have a CD/DVD you

> have a program for that task.

> peter

>

 

If he really is creating a backup, he needs to consider how he is going to

restore it. Spanned volumes are useless in this regard, because the

application required to read the spanned disk must be assumed to be absent

from the system he is trying to restore to.

 

Have you any idea how many people (and organisations come to that) discover

that their religiously made back up is quite useless when they need to

restore it in anger?

 

> "Mars" <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:819FDB57-E09B-4C76-B1F4-BE767354F4BF@microsoft.com...

>>I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers. I have no interest

>>in

>> purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

>>

>> so,

>>

>> What is the magic for backing up without a Floppy Drive in Windows?

>>

>> How do I make a Floppy Image so I can finish my Backup in Windows?

>>

>> Thank you

>

>

Guest M.I.5¾
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

 

"Xenomorph" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message

news:%236EOJmDxHHA.4592@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> ??????????????????

>

> what would a FLOPPY DRIVE have to do with backing up Windows??

>

> this isn't Windows 3.1

>

 

It is quite possible to back a Windows XP installation onto floppies. I

does, take a humungous amount of floppy disks though.

>

>

>

>

> "Mars" <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:819FDB57-E09B-4C76-B1F4-BE767354F4BF@microsoft.com...

>>I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers. I have no interest

>>in

>> purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

>>

>> so,

>>

>> What is the magic for backing up without a Floppy Drive in Windows?

>>

>> How do I make a Floppy Image so I can finish my Backup in Windows?

>>

>> Thank you

>

>

Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

Yes, floppy drives are cheep, but I am not interested in more junk floating

around in my workspace.

> IIRC, you don't need a floppy to backup your data, only the system state if

> you are using ASR.

 

What is IIRC and ASR? And are you saying that you do need to use a floppy

for the system state?

> For example, Acronis TrueImage and Norton Ghost don't require floppies at

> any point in the process, and you will get a complete, quickly restorable

> system image. And from what I observe here, these images are *much* more

> reliable than the results of ntbackup.

 

The microsoft representative I spoke to before purchasing Windows XP pro

stated that the backup program contained within the operating system is the

best way to create a complete system backup that can be used to quickly

restore the system to it's state at time of backup.

 

When you say, MUCH more reliable, what do you mean!? Backups may not work

if I use the inhouse backup program!?

 

The reality is, I just want to create a Floppy Image to write the important

restore stuff windows wants and needs to save to a floppy. This can not be

hard to do. I just can not figure out how to do this.

 

Good lord I can not even remember the last time I've seen a floppy! ha!

 

thanks for the software tips, though I would rather minimize the software I

have loaded into windows XP, until I become more familiar and comfortable

with it, just in case there are conflict issues with ArcGIS.

 

 

 

"Patrick Keenan" wrote:

> "Mars" <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:819FDB57-E09B-4C76-B1F4-BE767354F4BF@microsoft.com...

> >I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers.

>

> A common enough scenario. Laptops haven't come with floppies for some time

> now.

>

> > I have no interest in

> > purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

>

> It's perhaps $20-$30 for a USB floppy that you can attach to any system.

> They work very well, as long as the floppies work.

>

> I see internal floppy drives for maybe $12, but then you have to open the PC

> case.

>

> > so,

> >

> > What is the magic for backing up without a Floppy Drive in Windows?

>

> IIRC, you don't need a floppy to backup your data, only the system state if

> you are using ASR.

>

> > How do I make a Floppy Image so I can finish my Backup in Windows?

> >

> > Thank you

>

> Well, a starting point mught well be choosing a backup program or method

> that does not require a floppy drive.

>

> For example, Acronis TrueImage and Norton Ghost don't require floppies at

> any point in the process, and you will get a complete, quickly restorable

> system image. And from what I observe here, these images are *much* more

> reliable than the results of ntbackup.

>

> And it's very easy to mount the image file and verify the files. After

> all, backups are less than worthless if they failed. Verification is

> essential.

>

> However, this may require that you purchase multiple copies of software,

> which, as it happens, will be somewhat more than the price of the single USB

> floppy you can move from system to system as needed.

>

> Ultimately, it's up to you, and what you consider the value of your time and

> data to be. I personally use Acronis True Image, and there's a free

> trial, so you can check it out for two weeks.

>

> HTH

> -pk

>

>

>

>

>

Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

he he, he,

 

I am backing up to a hard drive.

The floppy image is needed for .. . something windows wants.

 

"Uncle Grumpy" wrote:

> Mars <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>

> >I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers. I have no interest in

> >purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

>

> You'd not be able to efficiently backup anything if you used floppies

> anyway.

>

> CD works, but it's clunky and requires a lot of those as well. Best

> solution is an external hard drive.

>

Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

..... so teach me how to do a complete system backup so that I can restore it

if the unthinkable happens.

 

Yes what in the world does a floppy drive have to do with backing up windows

anyways!!!!!!!

 

Look above as to the reason I wish to create a floopy drive image.

 

"Xenomorph" wrote:

> ??????????????????

>

> what would a FLOPPY DRIVE have to do with backing up Windows??

>

> this isn't Windows 3.1

>

>

>

>

>

> "Mars" <Mars @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:819FDB57-E09B-4C76-B1F4-BE767354F4BF@microsoft.com...

> >I do not have a floppy drive for any of my computers. I have no interest

> >in

> > purchasing one just to backup Windows XP.

> >

> > so,

> >

> > What is the magic for backing up without a Floppy Drive in Windows?

> >

> > How do I make a Floppy Image so I can finish my Backup in Windows?

> >

> > Thank you

>

>

>

Guest Uncle Grumpy
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:

>It is quite possible to back a Windows XP installation onto floppies. I

>does, take a humungous amount of floppy disks though.

 

The OP apparently has no concept of what "humongous" means.

 

By most standards, I have a small installation to backup: about 35

gigs. My backup image is about 28 gigs and takes about 20 minutes to

do when it's created on a second internal drive, and it takes no

effort on my part: it's done at 3am automatically.

 

If there could be an exact transfer of that to floppies with no

loss...

 

ONE gigabyte = 1,024 megabytes, or about 700 floppies

28 gigabytes = 28,672 megabytes = or about 19,600 floppies.

 

THAT is "humongous".

Guest FrankChin
Posted

RE: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

Mars:

> Why?

>

> Because after backing up "All information on my Computer" using "Backup" it

> asks me to insert a floppy disk so that restore information can be saved.

 

I've been doing backups since the mid 80's, and I recall doing a backup of a

"20 meg" drive to floppies took 30 minutes. Floppies are slow to begin with.

These days, I have 20Gigs or more to backup on each PC, 1000 times the

volume, so it'll take 500 hours to sit there and back it up onto thousands of

floppies.

 

How much would 20,000 floppies cost, and think of the room you'll need to

store it, and what happens if some of them fell on the floor. LOL.

 

There are these additional problems with the NTBACKUP

 

- I've tried using it to backup to an external HD just for the fun of it,

but failed as maxes out at a certain point, and there's been prior

discussions as to why on this board.

- As someone who's done backup and actual needed and done "restore" of many

years, often, you need to restore ONE or sevral files, as files may corrupt,

or you may mess up that spreadsheet from yesterday. Norton Ghost allows me to

restore just that one file whereas NT backup does not.

- Often, when HD fails, it's gotten old and bloated, and it'll be better if

you restore the software and data searately. If you restore the system the

way it was, it'll be the same virus ridden bloated system that you got.

 

Let's put it in simple terms (for a neophyte).

 

While it's free, NTBACKUP is useless. Backing up to thousands of floppies is

ludicrous in this day and age HD's with a minimum of 20 Gigs of data.

 

Spend less than $200 and get yourself an external USB drive and a useful

backup package like Norton Ghost or Acronis.

 

And here's an old "war story"

 

Years back, I worked somehere (a cheap company) we actually used the old

DOS "backup" and "restore" utilities to backup data onto floppies. As I

mentioned, 20 megs took over 30 minutes.

 

One time, we had a brilliant idea. Let's try restoring data to a new PC we

got to see if restore works or not. In the days of 5-1/4" low desnsity

floppies, 20 megs backs up to over 50 to 100 floppies.

 

And we couldn't restore. Why??

 

One of the floppies was bad, corrputed. We were stuck on floppy "#15" as I

recall, and we couldn't get onto #16, so the rest of the set was useless,

though. somwone taught us a trick much later on to get through this, losing

some data in the process.

 

And we couldn't restore just one file either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Mars" wrote:

> To everyone who wrote....

>

> Wow, this is my first time asking a question in a Microsoft Windows Forum.

> Not exactly the same experience as when asking in other forums.

>

> Okay, should I start off by saying, " I love Microsoft, I think they are the

> greatest company in the world and make the best darn software I ever did

> use,.... please help." ?

>

> hehehehe,

>

> So, essentially I'm not a hard core windows geek, and my only experience

> with command line tasks have been with Bash. I do remember using DOS back in

> the good ole days when purchasing an old X86 with a monochrome monitor was

> somehow a step up from my Commodore 64.

>

> So, why am I saying this?

>

> Because I do not know what all these acronyms are in Windows. Think of me as

> a neophyte and someone who would like to embrace Windows, and does not have

> much patience for silly remarks, unless of course they come from my nephew.

>

> So back to my original Question I was asking:

>

> I have used the BackUp application which comes with Windows XP Pro. It's

> free and makes sense to use whatever utilities come with the operating system.

>

> I do not wish to purchase a floppy disk driver, I don't care if it costs

> less than bowl of cherries, I'd rather buy the cherries thank you.

>

> Every operating system I have used has a nice quick utility for creating "

> disk images " I am looking how to create a "floppy disk image" for windows

> xp.

>

> Why?

>

> Because after backing up "All information on my Computer" using "Backup" it

> asks me to insert a floppy disk so that restore information can be saved.

>

> I am backing up everything because I am hoping that if Windows XPpro gibbles

> on me again, ( This largely do to some sort of issue with ArcGIS Info and a

> developer tool set I installed improperly.. I assume) I can simply restore my

> system to my latest Backup and not go through the full 12hr + reinstallation

> of Windows XP, it's many updates, then ArcGIS, it's many updates, then all

> the dependancies updates.

>

> So now that you know I am not an operating system wizard, not an acronym

> juggler, not interested in purchasing a floppy drive, that I do wish to

> embrace XP and what it can offer, and am interested in finding a nice simple

> solution, any takers?

>

> oh Yes, I back up to a hard drive. That hard drive gets mirrored to another

> hard drive and all my hard drives get once again backed up to an offsite

> location. So yes, my time and data are very important to me.

>

> Please forgive me for not being very clear in the first post, this operating

> system is kinda new to me.

>

> Thank you.

>

> Mars

Guest M.I.5¾
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

 

"Mars" <Mars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:E7C5A551-9490-4257-AFF2-B9F07DAC0257@microsoft.com...

> To everyone who wrote....

>

> Wow, this is my first time asking a question in a Microsoft Windows Forum.

> Not exactly the same experience as when asking in other forums.

>

> Okay, should I start off by saying, " I love Microsoft, I think they are

> the

> greatest company in the world and make the best darn software I ever did

> use,.... please help." ?

>

> hehehehe,

>

 

You might feel a need to creep to William Gates, but it is frowned upon

otherwise ;-/

> So, essentially I'm not a hard core windows geek, and my only experience

> with command line tasks have been with Bash. I do remember using DOS back

> in

> the good ole days when purchasing an old X86 with a monochrome monitor was

> somehow a step up from my Commodore 64.

>

 

Crikey!

> So, why am I saying this?

>

> Because I do not know what all these acronyms are in Windows. Think of me

> as

> a neophyte and someone who would like to embrace Windows, and does not

> have

> much patience for silly remarks, unless of course they come from my

> nephew.

>

> So back to my original Question I was asking:

>

> I have used the BackUp application which comes with Windows XP Pro. It's

> free and makes sense to use whatever utilities come with the operating

> system.

>

 

There are two stages in a useable backup regime.

 

1. The need to copy the entire disk file system to some external medium.

 

2. The need to copy that stored file system back to a PC that has absolutely

no operating system on it all (like if your hard disk has failed and you

replace it with a new one).

 

Some people rely on backing up only the non system files and then copying

them back to a newly installed Windows. It just depends on the amount of

hastle that want to get a working system up and running.

 

Many people use one of the hard disk imaging utilities such as Acronis

TrueImage or Norton Ghost. These produce a compressed backup in a

proprietary format, but the image is literally that - an image of the disk.

They come with the ability to create a bootable CD, that loads a minimalist

operating system and a version of the application that allows you to copy

the image back to the blank hard disk. The big advantage with TrueImage

(can't speak for ghost) is that it will perform incremental images where it

just appends the changes to the backup file (saves a lot of time).

 

Whatever backup system that you go for, it is essential that you actually

try steps 1 and 2 above (using a gash disk if necessary to try step 2). If

your restore ain't going to work, it is best to find out before you *have*

to do it.

 

And remember, there are two types of PC user: those that have had to restore

their backup, and those that are going to have to restore their backup.

Guest Daave
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

Mars wrote:

> I am backing up to a hard drive.

> The floppy image is needed for .. . something windows wants.

 

A "floppy image" is not needed for you to back up your files to another

hard drive. A floppy isn't even needed to create an entire image of your

hard drive (Acronis True Image is recommended for that).

 

I'm not sure by what you a referring to when you say "something windows

wants." Are you perhaps thinking of the set of six Windows XP Setup boot

floppy disks? If so, see:

 

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310994

Guest Zilbandy
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:40:01 -0700, Mars

<Mars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Why do you have to use a third party app and create a CD or DVD hardcopy for

>a system restore backup?

 

Because Windows backup program does not do well for system files and

files that are in use when the backup is run. If all you want is a

backup of your data, then it will be fine. If you want a backup that

can be restored without having Windows installed and running, then you

need a program with a proven track record for creating disk images

that WORK when you need them. I use and have been very satisfied with

Acronis True Image Home Version 10.

 

I backup my system to a couple of USB2 hard drives to maintain

multiple backups. I have created the Acronis "recovery CD" that will

boot my computer and run the Acronis software so that my computer can

be restored from a totally blank hard drive. The Acronis recovery CD

includes support for USB devices so your USB keyboard and mouse, if

you have them, will work as well as provide support for my USB hard

drive.

 

My C drive has about 17gb of data, including the operating system. The

backup image created is roughly 12gb in size and takes me about 14

minutes to create. To restore my system requires that I boot from the

Acronis recovery CD (takes a couple minutes or so) and then walk

through a few steps telling the software which backup image to restore

which takes another minute or so, then sit back and wait for the image

to be restored. Total recovery time in my case is about 45 minutes,

with no further user interaction with the computer. When done, close

the software, take out the CD, and after a reboot, you are back to

where you were. I've had no problems with the process to date, and

I've been using Acronis from version 7 to present (several years).

 

You can also use the images to restore single files or a mix of

folders and files. The investment in software, and a USB hard drive

for backups in small compared to the headache and time to restore by

reinstalling and configuring ALL you software. This is just my

opinion, but if you want to experiment with other programs and backup

media, good luck. :)

 

--

Zilbandy

Guest Zilbandy
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:54:00 -0700, Mars

<Mars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>What is IIRC and ASR? And are you saying that you do need to use a floppy

>for the system state?

 

Even backing up the registry using ERUNT takes over 40mb on my laptop.

In today's XP world, floppies are almost useless. :(

 

--

Zilbandy

Guest Zilbandy
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:54:00 -0700, Mars

<Mars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>When you say, MUCH more reliable, what do you mean!? Backups may not work

>if I use the inhouse backup program!?

 

Yes. The native backup software may not do what you want should you

need to completely restore you system and all programs / data. Many of

us have learned the hard way what works and what doesn't work. I put

my trust in 3rd party software, Acronis True Image... and no, I don't

work for them or get any "kickbacks" for plugging it. I'm simply happy

with it. :) The only way to find out if your idea will work is to try

it.

 

--

Zilbandy

Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

thanks for the info.

 

I'm getting pretty frustrated with XP. I can honestly say it is the most

complicated OS I have used.

It looks like I will have to purchase a proper backup application to

safeguard my system.

 

I did finally figure out how to produce a floppy disk image,

I had to use a different operating system though, and Windows seems to

recognize it fine.

 

I just have to get used to the idea that everything is more time consuming

and complicated in windows from what I am used to. I do hope that Vista is

an improvement on this, but I will not be able to find out until all my

scientific software and GIS applications support Vista.

 

The Acronis recovery CD method seems like a pretty reasonable compromise,

and sounds like you have experience in recovery. I'll certainly put this in

my box of "Things to do:" with regards to Windows.

 

Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it.

 

Mars

 

"Zilbandy" wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:40:01 -0700, Mars

> <Mars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>

> >Why do you have to use a third party app and create a CD or DVD hardcopy for

> >a system restore backup?

>

> Because Windows backup program does not do well for system files and

> files that are in use when the backup is run. If all you want is a

> backup of your data, then it will be fine. If you want a backup that

> can be restored without having Windows installed and running, then you

> need a program with a proven track record for creating disk images

> that WORK when you need them. I use and have been very satisfied with

> Acronis True Image Home Version 10.

>

> I backup my system to a couple of USB2 hard drives to maintain

> multiple backups. I have created the Acronis "recovery CD" that will

> boot my computer and run the Acronis software so that my computer can

> be restored from a totally blank hard drive. The Acronis recovery CD

> includes support for USB devices so your USB keyboard and mouse, if

> you have them, will work as well as provide support for my USB hard

> drive.

>

> My C drive has about 17gb of data, including the operating system. The

> backup image created is roughly 12gb in size and takes me about 14

> minutes to create. To restore my system requires that I boot from the

> Acronis recovery CD (takes a couple minutes or so) and then walk

> through a few steps telling the software which backup image to restore

> which takes another minute or so, then sit back and wait for the image

> to be restored. Total recovery time in my case is about 45 minutes,

> with no further user interaction with the computer. When done, close

> the software, take out the CD, and after a reboot, you are back to

> where you were. I've had no problems with the process to date, and

> I've been using Acronis from version 7 to present (several years).

>

> You can also use the images to restore single files or a mix of

> folders and files. The investment in software, and a USB hard drive

> for backups in small compared to the headache and time to restore by

> reinstalling and configuring ALL you software. This is just my

> opinion, but if you want to experiment with other programs and backup

> media, good luck. :)

>

> --

> Zilbandy

>

Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

Okay a second nod to Acronis.

 

"Zilbandy" wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:54:00 -0700, Mars

> <Mars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>

> >When you say, MUCH more reliable, what do you mean!? Backups may not work

> >if I use the inhouse backup program!?

>

> Yes. The native backup software may not do what you want should you

> need to completely restore you system and all programs / data. Many of

> us have learned the hard way what works and what doesn't work. I put

> my trust in 3rd party software, Acronis True Image... and no, I don't

> work for them or get any "kickbacks" for plugging it. I'm simply happy

> with it. :) The only way to find out if your idea will work is to try

> it.

>

> --

> Zilbandy

>

Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

No.

 

So obviously you have never used the Windows XP "Backup" application, to

create a complete system restore backup. Once the app has finished 'backing

up' the entire system, it asks to insert a floppy disk to record "important

restore information".

 

It does sound like you use Acronis, and It seems in Acronis you do not need

a stupid floppy for backing up a complete system image for restore.

 

It is easy enough to backup all important files and documents. It is

however incredibly time consuming re-installing windows, and all the

applications I have installed. I want to avoid this by making a complete

"recovery" backup (as it is called in the windows world) so that I can simply

wipe out the corrupted Windows XP partition, and copy over the complete

system "backup" and boot from that, and move on.

 

It sounds like the Backup tool in Windows is buggy and useless though for

this very necessary task. I can not understand why it would not be easy

enough to simply implement a similar command to that of "ditto".

 

I am now thinking that perhaps I will simply use another operating system to

"Clone" my Windows XP partition. It is just a little baffling that I would

need a third party application for doing a system backup.

 

Thanks for the pointer on Acronis though. It may be the only option for

Labs that exclusively run Windows platforms.

 

 

"Daave" wrote:

> Mars wrote:

>

> > I am backing up to a hard drive.

> > The floppy image is needed for .. . something windows wants.

>

> A "floppy image" is not needed for you to back up your files to another

> hard drive. A floppy isn't even needed to create an entire image of your

> hard drive (Acronis True Image is recommended for that).

>

> I'm not sure by what you a referring to when you say "something windows

> wants." Are you perhaps thinking of the set of six Windows XP Setup boot

> floppy disks? If so, see:

>

> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310994

>

>

>

Guest Daave
Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

Mars wrote:

> So obviously you have never used the Windows XP "Backup" application,

> to create a complete system restore backup. Once the app has

> finished 'backing up' the entire system, it asks to insert a floppy

> disk to record "important restore information".

 

I've used Ntbackup to back up data, and floppies aren't necessary. True,

that particular app is very limited in that you cannot back up to CD or

DVD. However, you may certainly backup data to an external hard drive,

and I really don't see why a System Restore backup would be any

different.

 

For more information, see:

 

"Windows XP Backup Made Easy"

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx

 

<quote>

 

Decide Where to Store Your Backup Files

 

On the Backup Type, Destination, and Name page, Windows asks you to

specify a backup location. If you're one of those exceedingly rare

individuals with access to a backup tape, the Backup utility gives you a

choice of options in the Select a backup type box. No tape drive? No

problem. Backup assumes you're going to save everything in a single

file; you just have to choose a location for that file and give it a

name.

 

By default, Backup proposes saving everything to your floppy drive

(drive A). Although that might have made sense 10 years ago, it's hardly

a rational choice today. You'd need dozens, perhaps hundreds of floppy

disks to store even a modest collection of data files, especially if you

collect digital music or photos.

 

Instead, your best bet is to click Browse and choose any of the

following locations:

 

.. Your computer's hard disk. The ideal backup location is a separate

partition from the one you're backing up. If your hard disk is

partitioned into drive C and drive D and your data is on drive C, you

can safely back up to drive D.

 

.. A Zip drive or other removable media. At 100-250MB per disk, this is

an option if you don't have multiple gigabytes to back up.

Unfortunately, the Windows Backup utility can't save files directly to a

CD-RW drive.

 

.. A shared network drive. You're limited only by the amount of free

space on the network share.

 

.. An external hard disk drive. USB and IEEE 1394 or FireWire drives have

dropped in price lately. Consider getting a 40 GB or larger drive and

dedicating it for use as a backup device.

 

</quote>

 

External hard drives are quite affordable. You should consider

purchasing one. Again, I see no reason you can't back up the system

state to an external hard drive using Ntbackup.

 

Or you may have noticed quite a few of us have mentioned Acronis. ;-)

One advantage of Acronis is that you *can* backup to CD or DVD. You may

backup data, you may create an image of your *entire* hard drive (much

easier than what you have been trying to do with ntbackup), and you may

even *clone* your hard drive!

Posted

Re: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

Okay, I understand Acronis seems to be the answer here, for doing a complete

system backup.

 

I can't imagine backing up everything to a CD/DVD. Seems very unreasonable

considering the amount of redundancy I have with available hard drive space.

 

I really suggest you try using "Backup" ( What is this NTBackup you are

speaking of? I can not find it on Windows XP Pro SP2) to create a complete

system restore backup. You will find that at the end of the backup session,

IT WILL ask for a floppy to record some sort of 'restore' data. I have not

found a way to circumvent this in the "Backup" program that is provided in

Windows XP Pro SP2.

 

It sounds like Acronis is the answer if the only OS you have attached is

Windows.

 

I may try a different route since I do have Mac OSX and Linux attached to my

network, and use the free tools provided there to create a complete "clone"

backup.

 

as it stands, it does not seem as though anyone knows how to create a Floppy

Image in Windows.

 

"Daave" wrote:

> Mars wrote:

>

> > So obviously you have never used the Windows XP "Backup" application,

> > to create a complete system restore backup. Once the app has

> > finished 'backing up' the entire system, it asks to insert a floppy

> > disk to record "important restore information".

>

> I've used Ntbackup to back up data, and floppies aren't necessary. True,

> that particular app is very limited in that you cannot back up to CD or

> DVD. However, you may certainly backup data to an external hard drive,

> and I really don't see why a System Restore backup would be any

> different.

>

> For more information, see:

>

> "Windows XP Backup Made Easy"

> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx

>

> <quote>

>

> Decide Where to Store Your Backup Files

>

> On the Backup Type, Destination, and Name page, Windows asks you to

> specify a backup location. If you're one of those exceedingly rare

> individuals with access to a backup tape, the Backup utility gives you a

> choice of options in the Select a backup type box. No tape drive? No

> problem. Backup assumes you're going to save everything in a single

> file; you just have to choose a location for that file and give it a

> name.

>

> By default, Backup proposes saving everything to your floppy drive

> (drive A). Although that might have made sense 10 years ago, it's hardly

> a rational choice today. You'd need dozens, perhaps hundreds of floppy

> disks to store even a modest collection of data files, especially if you

> collect digital music or photos.

>

> Instead, your best bet is to click Browse and choose any of the

> following locations:

>

> .. Your computer's hard disk. The ideal backup location is a separate

> partition from the one you're backing up. If your hard disk is

> partitioned into drive C and drive D and your data is on drive C, you

> can safely back up to drive D.

>

> .. A Zip drive or other removable media. At 100-250MB per disk, this is

> an option if you don't have multiple gigabytes to back up.

> Unfortunately, the Windows Backup utility can't save files directly to a

> CD-RW drive.

>

> .. A shared network drive. You're limited only by the amount of free

> space on the network share.

>

> .. An external hard disk drive. USB and IEEE 1394 or FireWire drives have

> dropped in price lately. Consider getting a 40 GB or larger drive and

> dedicating it for use as a backup device.

>

> </quote>

>

> External hard drives are quite affordable. You should consider

> purchasing one. Again, I see no reason you can't back up the system

> state to an external hard drive using Ntbackup.

>

> Or you may have noticed quite a few of us have mentioned Acronis. ;-)

> One advantage of Acronis is that you *can* backup to CD or DVD. You may

> backup data, you may create an image of your *entire* hard drive (much

> easier than what you have been trying to do with ntbackup), and you may

> even *clone* your hard drive!

>

>

>

Posted

RE: Backup with out a Floppy Drive in XP

 

for the life of Me I can not understand why people somehow think I am trying

to back up to floppies.

 

Maybe I am speaking a different language.

 

"FrankChin" wrote:

> Mars:

>

> > Why?

> >

> > Because after backing up "All information on my Computer" using "Backup" it

> > asks me to insert a floppy disk so that restore information can be saved.

>

> I've been doing backups since the mid 80's, and I recall doing a backup of a

> "20 meg" drive to floppies took 30 minutes. Floppies are slow to begin with.

> These days, I have 20Gigs or more to backup on each PC, 1000 times the

> volume, so it'll take 500 hours to sit there and back it up onto thousands of

> floppies.

>

> How much would 20,000 floppies cost, and think of the room you'll need to

> store it, and what happens if some of them fell on the floor. LOL.

>

> There are these additional problems with the NTBACKUP

>

> - I've tried using it to backup to an external HD just for the fun of it,

> but failed as maxes out at a certain point, and there's been prior

> discussions as to why on this board.

> - As someone who's done backup and actual needed and done "restore" of many

> years, often, you need to restore ONE or sevral files, as files may corrupt,

> or you may mess up that spreadsheet from yesterday. Norton Ghost allows me to

> restore just that one file whereas NT backup does not.

> - Often, when HD fails, it's gotten old and bloated, and it'll be better if

> you restore the software and data searately. If you restore the system the

> way it was, it'll be the same virus ridden bloated system that you got.

>

> Let's put it in simple terms (for a neophyte).

>

> While it's free, NTBACKUP is useless. Backing up to thousands of floppies is

> ludicrous in this day and age HD's with a minimum of 20 Gigs of data.

>

> Spend less than $200 and get yourself an external USB drive and a useful

> backup package like Norton Ghost or Acronis.

>

> And here's an old "war story"

>

> Years back, I worked somehere (a cheap company) we actually used the old

> DOS "backup" and "restore" utilities to backup data onto floppies. As I

> mentioned, 20 megs took over 30 minutes.

>

> One time, we had a brilliant idea. Let's try restoring data to a new PC we

> got to see if restore works or not. In the days of 5-1/4" low desnsity

> floppies, 20 megs backs up to over 50 to 100 floppies.

>

> And we couldn't restore. Why??

>

> One of the floppies was bad, corrputed. We were stuck on floppy "#15" as I

> recall, and we couldn't get onto #16, so the rest of the set was useless,

> though. somwone taught us a trick much later on to get through this, losing

> some data in the process.

>

> And we couldn't restore just one file either.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> "Mars" wrote:

>

> > To everyone who wrote....

> >

> > Wow, this is my first time asking a question in a Microsoft Windows Forum.

> > Not exactly the same experience as when asking in other forums.

> >

> > Okay, should I start off by saying, " I love Microsoft, I think they are the

> > greatest company in the world and make the best darn software I ever did

> > use,.... please help." ?

> >

> > hehehehe,

> >

> > So, essentially I'm not a hard core windows geek, and my only experience

> > with command line tasks have been with Bash. I do remember using DOS back in

> > the good ole days when purchasing an old X86 with a monochrome monitor was

> > somehow a step up from my Commodore 64.

> >

> > So, why am I saying this?

> >

> > Because I do not know what all these acronyms are in Windows. Think of me as

> > a neophyte and someone who would like to embrace Windows, and does not have

> > much patience for silly remarks, unless of course they come from my nephew.

> >

> > So back to my original Question I was asking:

> >

> > I have used the BackUp application which comes with Windows XP Pro. It's

> > free and makes sense to use whatever utilities come with the operating system.

> >

> > I do not wish to purchase a floppy disk driver, I don't care if it costs

> > less than bowl of cherries, I'd rather buy the cherries thank you.

> >

> > Every operating system I have used has a nice quick utility for creating "

> > disk images " I am looking how to create a "floppy disk image" for windows

> > xp.

> >

> > Why?

> >

> > Because after backing up "All information on my Computer" using "Backup" it

> > asks me to insert a floppy disk so that restore information can be saved.

> >

> > I am backing up everything because I am hoping that if Windows XPpro gibbles

> > on me again, ( This largely do to some sort of issue with ArcGIS Info and a

> > developer tool set I installed improperly.. I assume) I can simply restore my

> > system to my latest Backup and not go through the full 12hr + reinstallation

> > of Windows XP, it's many updates, then ArcGIS, it's many updates, then all

> > the dependancies updates.

> >

> > So now that you know I am not an operating system wizard, not an acronym

> > juggler, not interested in purchasing a floppy drive, that I do wish to

> > embrace XP and what it can offer, and am interested in finding a nice simple

> > solution, any takers?

> >

> > oh Yes, I back up to a hard drive. That hard drive gets mirrored to another

> > hard drive and all my hard drives get once again backed up to an offsite

> > location. So yes, my time and data are very important to me.

> >

> > Please forgive me for not being very clear in the first post, this operating

> > system is kinda new to me.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

> > Mars

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