Guest Jack S Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 When I download a few hundred gps data points over my USB - Serial hookup, something happens that not only aborts the download, but immediately cuts power to the whole computer. I've used this gps for a few years and successfully downloaded lots of (track) data points over a serial RS232 type connection. Then I got a new computer, that doesn't have an RS232 plug in. So, I got a USB - Serial hookup with driver, and everything works fine, provided I don't download too much data. Typically, I'll be a couple minutes into a download (300 or 400 track locations), and zap, the power to the computer cuts off and I'm screwed. Can anybody tell me, or just guess, what the hell is going on? Thanks
Guest Patrick Keenan Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p "Jack S" <gh@43.com> wrote in message news:7Vwmi.7996$Od7.3867@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... > When I download a few hundred gps data points over my USB - Serial hookup, > something happens that not only aborts the download, but immediately cuts > power to the whole computer. > > I've used this gps for a few years and successfully downloaded lots of > (track) data points over a serial RS232 type connection. > > Then I got a new computer, that doesn't have an RS232 plug in. So, I got a > USB - Serial hookup with driver, and everything works fine, provided I > don't download too much data. Typically, I'll be a couple minutes into a > download (300 or 400 track locations), and zap, the power to the computer > cuts off and I'm screwed. > > Can anybody tell me, or just guess, what the hell is going on? > > Thanks Does the computer just suddenly shut off, or does it restart? It's an important distinction - it can mean different things. Restarts usually mean a crash, and Windows has helpfully just given up. You should find some cryptic mention of why in a system log. The solution can be as simple as getting a better USB-serial adapter with stabler drivers. However, sudden power-offs sometimes mean hardware failure. Unfortunately, the hardware includes the power supply, the CPU, the memory, and just about any chip on the motherboard. It's sometimes the result of overheating or static. It's difficult to identify the failing part without replacing hardware, and that can be expensive. I would suggest that you examine and possibly exercise your warranty, particularly if this system is new. If you have to return the system, take a copy of your user data first, because the vendor won't necessarily place any value on it. Often, it's laptops that don't have serial connectors these days. PCs often still have them - there's plenty of room. HTH -pk
Guest Jack S Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p "Patrick Keenan" <test@dev.null> wrote in message news:OmDL$$yxHHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > "Jack S" <gh@43.com> wrote in message > news:7Vwmi.7996$Od7.3867@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... >> When I download a few hundred gps data points over my USB - Serial >> hookup, something happens that not only aborts the download, but >> immediately cuts power to the whole computer. >> >> I've used this gps for a few years and successfully downloaded lots of >> (track) data points over a serial RS232 type connection. >> >> Then I got a new computer, that doesn't have an RS232 plug in. So, I got >> a USB - Serial hookup with driver, and everything works fine, provided I >> don't download too much data. Typically, I'll be a couple minutes into a >> download (300 or 400 track locations), and zap, the power to the computer >> cuts off and I'm screwed. >> >> Can anybody tell me, or just guess, what the hell is going on? >> >> Thanks > > Does the computer just suddenly shut off, or does it restart? It's an > important distinction - it can mean different things. Suddenly shuts off, with no restart. Requires manual restart. This is the only time the computer has any problems (during lengthy USB -Serial download). I think it's probably a bad board in the USB - Serial adapter, but I hate to buy another just to test that before asking a few questions. > Restarts usually mean a crash, and Windows has helpfully just given up. > You should find some cryptic mention of why in a system log. The > solution can be as simple as getting a better USB-serial adapter with > stabler drivers. > > However, sudden power-offs sometimes mean hardware failure. > Unfortunately, the hardware includes the power supply, the CPU, the > memory, and just about any chip on the motherboard. It's sometimes the > result of overheating or static. It's difficult to identify the failing > part without replacing hardware, and that can be expensive. > > I would suggest that you examine and possibly exercise your warranty, > particularly if this system is new. If you have to return the system, > take a copy of your user data first, because the vendor won't necessarily > place any value on it. > > Often, it's laptops that don't have serial connectors these days. PCs > often still have them - there's plenty of room. > > HTH > -pk > >
Guest Patrick Keenan Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p "Jack S" <gh@43.com> wrote in message news:zqxmi.8005$Od7.6002@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > "Patrick Keenan" <test@dev.null> wrote in message > news:OmDL$$yxHHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> "Jack S" <gh@43.com> wrote in message >> news:7Vwmi.7996$Od7.3867@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>> When I download a few hundred gps data points over my USB - Serial >>> hookup, something happens that not only aborts the download, but >>> immediately cuts power to the whole computer. >>> >>> I've used this gps for a few years and successfully downloaded lots of >>> (track) data points over a serial RS232 type connection. >>> >>> Then I got a new computer, that doesn't have an RS232 plug in. So, I got >>> a USB - Serial hookup with driver, and everything works fine, provided I >>> don't download too much data. Typically, I'll be a couple minutes into a >>> download (300 or 400 track locations), and zap, the power to the >>> computer cuts off and I'm screwed. >>> >>> Can anybody tell me, or just guess, what the hell is going on? >>> >>> Thanks >> > >> Does the computer just suddenly shut off, or does it restart? It's an >> important distinction - it can mean different things. > > Suddenly shuts off, with no restart. Requires manual restart. That's a Bad Thing. I only see shutdowns like with hardware failure, related to motherboard/processor/memory. If it were a software crash, XP would be trying to restart. > This is the only time the computer has any problems (during lengthy > USB -Serial download). It's often hard to tell exactly what triggers this. That's why diagnosis is so expensive. If you keep the machine as is, the problem will likely get worse, and it will get harder and harder to restart the system. > I think it's probably a bad board in the USB - Serial adapter, but I hate > to buy another just to test that before asking a few questions. It's actually probably not the USB adapter, but rather a component mounted to the motherboard. The USB-serial adapters I use are normally in the $20 range, and don't cause system problems. I suggest you want to check your warranty. HTH -pk > >> Restarts usually mean a crash, and Windows has helpfully just given up. >> You should find some cryptic mention of why in a system log. The >> solution can be as simple as getting a better USB-serial adapter with >> stabler drivers. >> >> However, sudden power-offs sometimes mean hardware failure. >> Unfortunately, the hardware includes the power supply, the CPU, the >> memory, and just about any chip on the motherboard. It's sometimes the >> result of overheating or static. It's difficult to identify the failing >> part without replacing hardware, and that can be expensive. >> >> I would suggest that you examine and possibly exercise your warranty, >> particularly if this system is new. If you have to return the system, >> take a copy of your user data first, because the vendor won't necessarily >> place any value on it. >> >> Often, it's laptops that don't have serial connectors these days. PCs >> often still have them - there's plenty of room. >> >> HTH >> -pk >> >> > >
Guest Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p What os on the computer What make/model on the gps? (there might be an alternate solution) Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
Guest Jack S Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in message news:uHyk8kzxHHA.4592@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > What os on the computer Win xp pro, totally updated; on an Asus A8n-vm mobo. > > What make/model on the gps? (there might be an alternate solution) Magellan Meridian gold, latest firmware. No other problems with the GPS, downloads of waypoints and tracks below 300 or 400 nodes goes ok. > > Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
Guest Paul Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p Jack S wrote: > "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in > message news:uHyk8kzxHHA.4592@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > >> What os on the computer > > Win xp pro, totally updated; on an Asus A8n-vm mobo. > >> What make/model on the gps? (there might be an alternate solution) > > Magellan Meridian gold, latest firmware. No other problems with the GPS, > downloads of waypoints and tracks below 300 or 400 nodes goes ok. > >> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices] > One question I'd have, is whether you've ever passed a stability test on the computer. This will have nothing to do with your USB-serial-GPS problem, but will test whether the core of the computer works properly or not. Prime95 is one such tool, and it can be downloaded from mersenne.org . The official purpose of the program, is to search for prime numbers, but the program also happens to have a "Torture Test" option. That test carries out a calculation with a known answer, so the test can tell whether the CPU computes properly or not. The test uses a good sized chunk of system memory, and tests the CPU, Northbridge of the chipset, and the system memory. It should run for hours without reporting an error. A newly purchased prebuilt computer should be able to pass this, or I'd send it back to the manufacturer. A side effect of the test, is the fact that the CPU runs at 100% load, and warms up. Thus, the test checks the adequacy of the cooling on the computer. If the CPU is not cooled properly, or there is a problem with the Vcore regulator not being able to deliver full current to the processor, that could be reflected by the computer shutting off (CPU overheat detected), or crashing (bad Vcore voltage level). Passing this test, will allow you to return to analysing driver problems for USB or virtual serial port. IF you fail the test, you have other problems to fix first. HTH, Paul
Guest Jack S Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:f7eg8b$4aa$1@aioe.org... > Jack S wrote: >> "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in >> message news:uHyk8kzxHHA.4592@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> >>> What os on the computer >> >> Win xp pro, totally updated; on an Asus A8n-vm mobo. >> >>> What make/model on the gps? (there might be an alternate solution) >> >> Magellan Meridian gold, latest firmware. No other problems with the GPS, >> downloads of waypoints and tracks below 300 or 400 nodes goes ok. >> >>> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices] >> > > One question I'd have, is whether you've ever passed a stability > test on the computer. This will have nothing to do with your > USB-serial-GPS > problem, but will test whether the core of the computer works properly > or not. > > Prime95 is one such tool, and it can be downloaded from mersenne.org . The > official purpose of the program, is to search for prime numbers, but the > program also happens to have a "Torture Test" option. That test carries > out a calculation with a known answer, so the test can tell whether the > CPU computes properly or not. The test uses a good sized chunk of system > memory, and tests the CPU, Northbridge of the chipset, and the system > memory. It should run for hours without reporting an error. A newly > purchased prebuilt computer should be able to pass this, or I'd send it > back to the manufacturer. > > A side effect of the test, is the fact that the CPU runs at 100% load, > and warms up. Thus, the test checks the adequacy of the cooling on > the computer. If the CPU is not cooled properly, or there is a problem > with the Vcore regulator not being able to deliver full current to the > processor, that could be reflected by the computer shutting off (CPU > overheat detected), or crashing (bad Vcore voltage level). > > Passing this test, will allow you to return to analysing driver problems > for USB or virtual serial port. IF you fail the test, you have other > problems to fix first. I tried the Prime95 test, and you nailed it - it failed (twice) the same way it has when doing a large USB -Serial dwonload. The CPU usage goes to 100 pct in both cases for 50 or 60 seconds, then the power cuts off. Any suggestions about what to do about this? > > HTH, > Paul
Guest Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p >> Magellan Meridian gold << based on my experiences, switch from serial and do all of your transfers via the SD card and a pc card reader... much more reliable, faster, easier and the sd file formats are in ascii. You will need to convert the sd files to mapsend format in order to open them in mapsend and vise versa, but I gave up on serial transfers a long time ago. I recommend GPSUtility http://www.gpsu.co.uk as a conversion tool for waypoints/routes/tracks... maps don't need a conversion after they are generated. among other things, Mapsend 3.x had a serious problem with the comm port under XP which would shutdown complete access to that port after it's first use until you rebooted... couldn't even do two comm port actions within a single mapsend session, so, assume that this might be related. More info on meridian SD file transfers at http://bevhoward.com/Meridian.htm You might also be interested in http://bevhoward.com/G2WPT.htm which shows how to generate turn by turn routing using waypoint routes which will work on any gps which will accept uploaded route files. Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
Guest Paul Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p Jack S wrote: > "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:f7eg8b$4aa$1@aioe.org... >> Jack S wrote: >>> "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in >>> message news:uHyk8kzxHHA.4592@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> >>>> What os on the computer >>> Win xp pro, totally updated; on an Asus A8n-vm mobo. >>> >>>> What make/model on the gps? (there might be an alternate solution) >>> Magellan Meridian gold, latest firmware. No other problems with the GPS, >>> downloads of waypoints and tracks below 300 or 400 nodes goes ok. >>> >>>> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices] >> One question I'd have, is whether you've ever passed a stability >> test on the computer. This will have nothing to do with your >> USB-serial-GPS >> problem, but will test whether the core of the computer works properly >> or not. >> >> Prime95 is one such tool, and it can be downloaded from mersenne.org . The >> official purpose of the program, is to search for prime numbers, but the >> program also happens to have a "Torture Test" option. That test carries >> out a calculation with a known answer, so the test can tell whether the >> CPU computes properly or not. The test uses a good sized chunk of system >> memory, and tests the CPU, Northbridge of the chipset, and the system >> memory. It should run for hours without reporting an error. A newly >> purchased prebuilt computer should be able to pass this, or I'd send it >> back to the manufacturer. >> >> A side effect of the test, is the fact that the CPU runs at 100% load, >> and warms up. Thus, the test checks the adequacy of the cooling on >> the computer. If the CPU is not cooled properly, or there is a problem >> with the Vcore regulator not being able to deliver full current to the >> processor, that could be reflected by the computer shutting off (CPU >> overheat detected), or crashing (bad Vcore voltage level). >> >> Passing this test, will allow you to return to analysing driver problems >> for USB or virtual serial port. IF you fail the test, you have other >> problems to fix first. > > > I tried the Prime95 test, and you nailed it - it failed (twice) the same way > it has when doing a large USB -Serial dwonload. > > The CPU usage goes to 100 pct in both cases for 50 or 60 seconds, then the > power cuts off. > > Any suggestions about what to do about this? > Check the CPU cooling. That means, make sure the CPU heatsink is making good contact with the CPU. Usually there is a pad or thermal paste, to take the place of any air between the CPU and the heatsink. Sometimes the clip breaks away from the socket, leaving the heatsink dangling. Check that the fins of the heatsink are not plugged with dust. Check for good airflow through the computer case, as stagnant air around the CPU, cannot cool the CPU. Fresh air must be pulled past the area of the CPU, so the CPU heatsink can do its work. My guess would be, that your heatsink is not in good contact. To give an example, if the room temperature is 25C, a well cooled computer case will be 32C to about 35C. If the air in the computer case is getting hotter than that, make sure the inlet vents are sufficient, and the exhaust fan is doing its job. (There should be at least one exhaust fan, in addition to the fan on the PSU - the fan on the PSU doesn't count.) If you have PCI slot covers, make sure they are closed. The idea is, you don't want any "short air paths" preventing the air that is pulled through the case, from doing its job. On my computer, I have vent space available on the front of the computer case, near the bottom (I removed the plastic bezel, so I could get better airflow). My exhaust fan is on the back. That means the cool air flows through the whole computer case, before being exhausted. If all the PCI slot covers were removed, the cool air flowing through the PCI slot covers, would immediately whip around and leave via the exhaust fan, doing no useful work. My computer case also is equipped with a dust filter, and that was one of the first things I removed. If you case has a dust filter, either plan on cleaning it every three months, or remove it. The CPU temperature should stay below about 65C. The reason for picking that number, is some Intel CPUs throttle when they hit 65C to 70C. Throttling reduces performance, and defeats the purpose of spending a couple hundred on a good CPU. There are some processors that will become unstable around that temperature, and that can be another incentive to improve CPU cooling. The temperature deltas, tell you what you should be improving. For example, if my CPU was 65C, computer case air temp was 32C, room temp was 25C, the deltas are 33C and 7C. Since the CPU has such a large delta, the CPU cooling would be where you'd spend the money. If, on the other hand, the CPU was 65C, computer case was 45C, room temp was 25C, you could profitably work on either of them. In that case, I might want to work on reducing the computer case temp first, because the hot air is not doing the disk drive any good. That is one reason to keep the case air temp down. I have three sensors on my computer. I have a room temp sensor sticking out the front grill. It is 25C. Computer case air temp is 28C. And the CPU is 29C (because I'm using a separate program to issue the HALT instruction when the CPU is idle - for some reason the HALT that should be there in the OS, is broken). When gaming, my CPU goes to 43C. My CPU is a 3.2GHz Northwood P4. Many motherboard BIOS screens, have a hardware monitor page. And sometimes you can see the motherboard temperature and CPU temperature listed in there. Right now, we know your CPU is messed up, so you'd only need to check the BIOS hardware monitor page, to see how hot the motherboard / computer case air temp is. HTH, Paul
Guest M.I.5¾ Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p "Jack S" <gh@43.com> wrote in message news:7Vwmi.7996$Od7.3867@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... > When I download a few hundred gps data points over my USB - Serial hookup, > something happens that not only aborts the download, but immediately cuts > power to the whole computer. > > I've used this gps for a few years and successfully downloaded lots of > (track) data points over a serial RS232 type connection. > > Then I got a new computer, that doesn't have an RS232 plug in. So, I got a > USB - Serial hookup with driver, and everything works fine, provided I > don't download too much data. Typically, I'll be a couple minutes into a > download (300 or 400 track locations), and zap, the power to the computer > cuts off and I'm screwed. > > Can anybody tell me, or just guess, what the hell is going on? > USB to RS-232 adaptors are notoriously fickle. Some will work fine with just about anything you can throw at them and some of them will work with everything except one application. When you say your power "cuts off", what exactly do you mean. Do you have to physically turn the PC back on, or does it start up again automatically? If the latter, then I would suggest that the USB-serial driver has a bug that crashes Windows. Solution: Try another brand of USB-Serial adaptor.
Guest Thomas Lutz Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: USB - Serial port download problem h e l p It sounds like the driver for the USB add-on serial has a bug that is crashing your system. I would recommend that you either look on the manufacturer's web site to see if they have an updated driver or uninstall the driver completely and purchase a different USB serial adapter. The ones from Belkin are normally very good. On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:32:06 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" <test@dev.null> wrote: >"Jack S" <gh@43.com> wrote in message >news:7Vwmi.7996$Od7.3867@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... >> When I download a few hundred gps data points over my USB - Serial hookup, >> something happens that not only aborts the download, but immediately cuts >> power to the whole computer. >> >> I've used this gps for a few years and successfully downloaded lots of >> (track) data points over a serial RS232 type connection. >> >> Then I got a new computer, that doesn't have an RS232 plug in. So, I got a >> USB - Serial hookup with driver, and everything works fine, provided I >> don't download too much data. Typically, I'll be a couple minutes into a >> download (300 or 400 track locations), and zap, the power to the computer >> cuts off and I'm screwed. >> >> Can anybody tell me, or just guess, what the hell is going on? >> >> Thanks > >Does the computer just suddenly shut off, or does it restart? It's an >important distinction - it can mean different things. > >Restarts usually mean a crash, and Windows has helpfully just given up. >You should find some cryptic mention of why in a system log. The solution >can be as simple as getting a better USB-serial adapter with stabler >drivers. > >However, sudden power-offs sometimes mean hardware failure. Unfortunately, >the hardware includes the power supply, the CPU, the memory, and just about >any chip on the motherboard. It's sometimes the result of overheating or >static. It's difficult to identify the failing part without replacing >hardware, and that can be expensive. > >I would suggest that you examine and possibly exercise your warranty, >particularly if this system is new. If you have to return the system, >take a copy of your user data first, because the vendor won't necessarily >place any value on it. > >Often, it's laptops that don't have serial connectors these days. PCs often >still have them - there's plenty of room. > >HTH >-pk >
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