Guest teebo Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Hi I'm about to buy a new computer and like to run windows 98 on it, but are there any hardware I should avoid ? (that don't have needed drivers for windows98 etc) Do win98 work with pci-express? I think I would like to build something like this: motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4 Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this?
Guest 98 Guy Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer teebo wrote: > Do win98 work with pci-express? I tried to get several different Nvidia PCI-e boards to work under win-98se, but was never able to. > I think I would like to build something like this: > motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX > graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E I believe that was one of the video cards I tried. It has no fan - just a big heat sink. PCI-e has a "feature" called turbo-cache, which allows the video card to steal some main system memory as a substitute for having more of it's own memory. Not all boards have this (perhaps only "cheapo boards"). There was a working theory that any PCI-e boards that have this "turbo-cache" will not be compatible with win-98. To add to that, it is not straight forward to tell (by Nvidia model number) what boards have it and which don't. > processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX > memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4 > Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this? I think you're going to get stopped by the PCI-e. You *might* have some luck with ATI PCI-e cards. I've installed win-98 on an ASRock Dual-VSTA motherboard. It has AGP and PCI-e slots. Check Asus and VIA web sites for drivers. Download the chipset drivers from both locations and examine them for win-98 install files. If the machine is going to be used only for win-98, then don't waste your money on a dual-core CPU. As well, anything more than 512mb of ram probably won't be useful. Check out the win-98 forum on MSFN.org. There is also another web-forum that deals only with video cards (I forget the URL) but it is sometimes mentioned in some MSFN threads.
Guest Ron Badour Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I would not count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You could try XP or Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is what I do with my MCE of Windows). http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199-48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en -- Regards Ron Badour MS MVP 1997 - 2007 "teebo" <no@mail.no> wrote in message news:op.tvov78nwbr8ivg@300pl... > Hi I'm about to buy a new computer and like to run windows 98 on it, > but are there any hardware I should avoid ? > (that don't have needed drivers for windows98 etc) > > Do win98 work with pci-express? > > > I think I would like to build something like this: > motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX > graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E > processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX > memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4 > > Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this? >
Guest Don Phillipson Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer "Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I would not > count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You could try XP or > Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is what I do with my MCE of > Windows). > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199-48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC is not supported by Vista. The WinXP references suggest the documentation is in XPS format which perhaps Win98 cannot read. -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
Guest dadiOH Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer Don Phillipson wrote: > "Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message > news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > >> You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I >> would not count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You >> could try XP or Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is >> what I do with my MCE of Windows). >> > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199 -48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en > > The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP > but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC > is not supported by Vista. Supported Operating Systems: Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition (32-bit x86); Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition; Windows Vista Business; Windows Vista Business 64-bit edition; Windows Vista Enterprise; Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit edition; Windows Vista Ultimate; Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit edition; Windows XP Professional Edition ; Windows XP Professional x64 Edition ; Windows XP Tablet PC Edition -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest MEB Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message news:OoCGp2gyHHA.4392@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... | Don Phillipson wrote: | > "Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message | > news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... | > | >> You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I | >> would not count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You | >> could try XP or Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is | >> what I do with my MCE of Windows). | >> | > | http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199 | -48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en | > | > The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP | > but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC | > is not supported by Vista. | | Supported Operating Systems: Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition | (32-bit x86); Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition; Windows Vista | Business; Windows Vista Business 64-bit edition; Windows Vista | Enterprise; Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit edition; Windows Vista | Ultimate; Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit edition; Windows XP | Professional Edition ; Windows XP Professional x64 Edition ; Windows | XP Tablet PC Edition | | -- | | dadiOH | ____________________________ | | dadiOH's dandies v3.06... | ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from | LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. | Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico | | | I was under the impression that use of such within VISTA would violate the Support Agreement/EULA.. seems that has been presented in the VISTA forums ....
Guest dadiOH Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer MEB wrote: > "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message > news:OoCGp2gyHHA.4392@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Don Phillipson wrote: >>> "Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message >>> news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> >>>> You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I >>>> would not count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You >>>> could try XP or Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is >>>> what I do with my MCE of Windows). >>>> >>> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199 >> -48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en >>> >>> The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP >>> but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC >>> is not supported by Vista. >> >> Supported Operating Systems: Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition >> (32-bit x86); Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition; Windows >> Vista Business; Windows Vista Business 64-bit edition; Windows >> Vista Enterprise; Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit edition; Windows >> Vista Ultimate; Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit edition; Windows XP >> Professional Edition ; Windows XP Professional x64 Edition ; >> Windows XP Tablet PC Edition > I was under the impression that use of such within VISTA would > violate the Support Agreement/EULA.. seems that has been presented > in the VISTA forums ... No idea, it was a copy & paste from the MS site that Ron Badour linked. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest MEB Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message news:OEY95jiyHHA.3772@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... | MEB wrote: | > "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message | > news:OoCGp2gyHHA.4392@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... | >> Don Phillipson wrote: | >>> "Ron Badour" <Sorry@NoAddress.com> wrote in message | >>> news:OeVq0rbyHHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... | >>> | >>>> You are unlikely to find W98 drivers for your new hardware so I | >>>> would not count on being able to run W98 as the sole system. You | >>>> could try XP or Vista and then run W98 in VirtualPC 2007 (that is | >>>> what I do with my MCE of Windows). | >>>> | >>> | >> | http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=04d26402-3199 | >> -48a3-afa2-2dc0b40a73b6&DisplayLang=en | >>> | >>> The MS KB has (3) references to VirtualPC for WinXP | >>> but (today) none for Vista, which implies VirtualPC | >>> is not supported by Vista. | >> | >> Supported Operating Systems: Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition | >> (32-bit x86); Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition; Windows | >> Vista Business; Windows Vista Business 64-bit edition; Windows | >> Vista Enterprise; Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit edition; Windows | >> Vista Ultimate; Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit edition; Windows XP | >> Professional Edition ; Windows XP Professional x64 Edition ; | >> Windows XP Tablet PC Edition | | > I was under the impression that use of such within VISTA would | > violate the Support Agreement/EULA.. seems that has been presented | > in the VISTA forums ... | | No idea, it was a copy & paste from the MS site that Ron Badour | linked. | | -- | | dadiOH | ____________________________ | | dadiOH's dandies v3.06... | ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from | LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. | Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico | Oh, okay,, it just struck me as strange to see one thing posted here, and the opposite in those forums...
Guest teebo Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer > I tried to get several different Nvidia PCI-e boards to work under > win-98se, but was never able to. Hmmm :-( did you used the driver at http://www.mdgx.com/files/nv8269.php or the other one (http://www.nvworld.ru/drivers/old/WideWin9x.rar) ? >> I think I would like to build something like this: >> graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E > I believe that was one of the video cards I tried. It has no fan - > just a big heat sink. yes. And I think there is a 512Mb overclocked version of it with heatsinks (and heatpipes) on the backside too. (btw, will windows98 have any problems with too much memory on a graphics card? like it consumes normal memory space or so?) > PCI-e has a "feature" called turbo-cache, which allows the video card > to steal some main system memory as a substitute for having more of > it's own memory. Not all boards have this (perhaps only "cheapo mmm.. there seems to be a bunch of 64Mb geforce6xxx-cards that do that now. > boards"). There was a working theory that any PCI-e boards that have > this "turbo-cache" will not be compatible with win-98. To add to > that, it is not straight forward to tell (by Nvidia model number) what > boards have it and which don't. I have looked at ASUS pages and searched on the net and thankfully there is no mention of that the card I want have turbo-cache. > I've installed win-98 on an ASRock Dual-VSTA motherboard. It has AGP > and PCI-e slots. both graphics slots on the same motherboard? cooool.... > Check Asus and VIA web sites for drivers. Download the chipset > drivers from both locations and examine them for win-98 install files. ok I will > If the machine is going to be used only for win-98, then don't waste > your money on a dual-core CPU. As well, anything more than 512mb of > ram probably won't be useful. I think I shuold go non dual-core (but the 2 gigs are for other operating systems) The big problem that hit me now is that the processor I liked, AMD64 3800+ 65nm/45W (less heat=more silent) have something called 'Stepping G1' but the motherboard is listed as having 'Stepping F2' on amd's webpage. ....so I guess I have to find another mother board? :'-( > web-forum that deals only with video cards (I forget the URL) but it > is sometimes mentioned in some MSFN threads. Hmm.. I see if I find it
Guest Stanislaw Flatto Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer MEB wrote: > > I was under the impression that use of such within VISTA would violate the > Support Agreement/EULA.. seems that has been presented in the VISTA forums > ... > Using a computer is in conflict with EULA! Have fun Stanislaw Linux and Win98SE user from Ulladulla.
Guest teebo Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer > Using a computer is in conflict with EULA! > :-D thankfully this sort of 'broken seal' licenses have no legal value in the country I live. And I do not want to run win98 in an emulator anyway, instead I have to find hardware that have drivers that works with win98se. There is unofficial drivers for new Nvidia graphics cards (with pci-express support too), http://www.mdgx.com/files/nv8269.php but not for all cards, 98Guy say I should avoid cards with turbo-cache (but turbo-cache is a bad idea anyway), I must avoid 'bad' cards. Since I don't buy in a shop I can't just go back with the hardware if it don't work. A bigger problem is the motherboard, not all of them play well with win98 I heard. I think I should avoid nvidia mother boards. Are there anyone here that knows about the others? VIA have good support for win98, but the one motherboard I found (with ok price and features like 2 ata-slots, and no internal graphics) that my normal webshop have... ....don't work (I think?) with the processor I want :-( I want the have the 65nm (45W) one, that will generate less heat and still have good speed. (AMD calls it ADH3800DEBOX) but that processors is "Stepping: G1" On amd:s pages there is a 'Recomended Motherboards' page http://www2.amd.com/gb-uk/Processors/TechnicalResources/1,,30_182_869_9460%5e9461,00.html?1175095829 that don't list the motherboard 'ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX' as stepping G1, only F2 is it just they have not tested it with G1, or is the chipset not compatible with G1 or something else on the motherboard not capable of handling G1 ?
Guest Lil' Dave Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer "teebo" <no@mail.no> wrote in message news:op.tvov78nwbr8ivg@300pl... > Hi I'm about to buy a new computer and like to run windows 98 on it, > but are there any hardware I should avoid ? > (that don't have needed drivers for windows98 etc) Below indicates a build of a PC, not buying a new computer. > > Do win98 work with pci-express? No. > > > I think I would like to build something like this: > motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX > graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E > processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX > memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4 > > Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this? > Bottom line. Pci-E is out. System needs tweaking to map out RAM above 512MB. Not sure about 64bit hardware. Need to research availablility of 98/98SE drivers for any recently made core and peripheral hardware before buying. By "core", I mean the motherboard and video card. The core hardware may run in a crippled fashion unless drivers are available and installed. Some recent internal and external peripheral hardware may not run at all as drivers are not available for 98/98SE. Dave
Guest Bob Harris Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer You seem to be describing year-2007 hardware, something way beyond the minimums for XP, maybe good enough to run Vista. It is hard to believe that 98 will run on this, or if does that it could possibly make full use of all that hardware. For example, 98 is more limited than XP in how much RAM it can use. Under 512 Meg, no problem. 512 Meg to 1 Gig 98 needs some "adjustments" to funciton. Beyond 1 Gig may not work or extra RAM may just be ignored. PCI express? That is way too new for 98, unless the video card maker explicitly says that it will work and that they provide drivers. To be honest it is hard to imagine any video card maker investing the time to write PCI-X drivers for 98. Processor? I have heard that there may be some upper limit of CPUs for 98. Also, why get a 64-bit capable processor, when 98 is a 32-bit operating system? Have you tried checking the support websites of the specified hardware for what operating systems they support? Or, download the associated manuals, which may contain that information, or search their websites for 98-compatible dirvers. Hint: if no drivers, likely the hardware is not 98-compatible. Overall, I suggest that you either think about using XP (or a modern LINUX) for this hardware, or get much older (thus cheaper) hardware, if you absolutely must use 98. I had a friend build a nice 98 machine using Intel's D865GBF motherboard, which is of the vintage (2002-2003). It still work fine. "teebo" <no@mail.no> wrote in message news:op.tvov78nwbr8ivg@300pl... > Hi I'm about to buy a new computer and like to run windows 98 on it, > but are there any hardware I should avoid ? > (that don't have needed drivers for windows98 etc) > > Do win98 work with pci-express? > > > I think I would like to build something like this: > motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX > graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E > processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX > memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4 > > Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this? >
Guest 98 Guy Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer Bob Harris wrote: > It is hard to believe that 98 will run on this, or if does that > it could possibly make full use of all that hardware. It all depends on the chipset. Intel stopped supporting win-98 at ICH5 (or was it ICH6?). As I've discovered a few months ago, there are some current motherboards with VIA chipsets that seem to work fine and have great win-98 support - even for SATA and RAID drives. > PCI express? That is way too new for 98, The wierd thing is that on my Asrock motherboard, I do have a PCI-PCIe bridge driver installed, but have never gotten a PCI-e card to work. What I've read about PCI-e is that at a driver level, it's practically identical to AGP (was designed that way to make it easier for vendors to make the transition to PCI-e). Aside from PCI-e (which I believe some have claimed that some pci-e ATI boards do work), the only other show-stopper for win-98 is the newer high-definition audio component that has replaced the traditional on-board audio. > To be honest it is hard to imagine any video card maker > investing the time to write PCI-X drivers for 98. Like I said, from what I've read, PCI-e and AGP are very similar at the driver level - perhaps identical. > Processor? I have heard that there may be some upper limit of > CPUs for 98. Um, no. Don't get me started on that again. It's been hashed here before.
Guest teebo Posted July 22, 2007 Posted July 22, 2007 Re: Win98 on new computer > Below indicates a build of a PC, not buying a new computer. oups, when I say 'buy' I mean 'buy the parts and put them together' :-} I guess there must be people that buy prebuilt computers too... hmm... I never do, and besides I allready have a nice box and harddisks etc, I want my parts to be standard, the prebuilt computers don't allways do. (although I think they were worse at this some years ago) >> Do win98 work with pci-express? > > No. I guess the answer is some pci-express cards, not all :-/ and the nvidia ones use the tweaked unofficial NV8269 driver (so I assume I must verify that the card below is one of the working ones before I buy, somehow) >> I think I would like to build something like this: >> motherboard: ASUS M2V VIA K8T890 S-AM2 GBLAN ATX >> graphics card: ASUS EXTREME GEFORCE 7600GS SILENT 256MB PCI-E >> processor: AMD ATHLON 64 3800+ SOCKET AM2 512KB BOX >> memory: CORSAIR 2GB DDR2 PC6400 XMS2 XTREME (2X1GB) CAS4 >> >> Would there be any problems getting win98 work with this? >> > > Bottom line. Pci-E is out. System needs tweaking to map out RAM above ohh.. I'm not afraid of some tweaking. I allways change lots of things in windows anyway. (why must all windowsversions have their default setting just opposite what I like? why must microsoft allways try to make things be like the previous version of mac?) And yes I know (now) that memory over 1 GB can't be used with win98se even with all the paches/service packs and tweaks (but it would be nice if it would be possible to have the swapfile in a ramdisk there or *something* but ok...) > 512MB. Not sure about 64bit hardware. Need to research availablility of yes win98 don't use the 64bit, but amd64 is fully fullspeed 32bit too so it's ok. Besides that they don't sell 32bit-only anymore, my hardware choices is just partly based on win98's need. Sure it must be able to run win98 and dos, but it should support the future too! I'm do not intend to buy a new motherboard or processor the nearest ten years. Sure I will buy new harddisk and perhaps a new graphics card somewhere in the future but not motherboard. I willl probably get more memory too (for linux), this motherboard supports 8Gb and I think that "ought to be enough for anybody" :-D > 98/98SE drivers for any recently made core and peripheral hardware before > buying. By "core", I mean the motherboard and video card. The core via seems to be a nice company (to win98) and I'm very grateful to the persons that have fixed the nvidia drivers > hardware may run in a crippled fashion unless drivers are available and > installed. Some recent internal and external peripheral hardware may not > run at all as drivers are not available for 98/98SE. Yep, it is a lot harder to buy hardware this days. both to avoid drm-crippled hardware and to verify they work ok in win9x. But it is a lot easier with all yours help, so I hope you don't think I abuse you or wear out your brains with (too) long newsposts :-)
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