"People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

July 20, 2007

"People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+pains+leave+room+for+XP/2100-1016_3-6197757.html?tag=html.alert.hed

David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version of

Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars

advertising since it came out six months ago.

He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken for

balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program that

connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't communicate

with the PC properly.

"Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with

market research firm IDC.

Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every

major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped with

the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and retailers

to give the older operating system more room in their product lines.

Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their Web

sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped machines.

Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it

compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported

quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing

help from strong Vista sales.

Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that nearly

all software and hardware is compatible.

Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for

upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in

Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after it

was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with the

software.

"People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it

with XP?'" he said.

Testing users' comfort level

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen to

buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

"XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said Jon

Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon start

supporting Vista.

Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,

something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.

Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does not

carry XP machines.

The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its

employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on

Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be

uncomfortable.

"My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers running

XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to work," said WUG

vice president Joel Diamond.

Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other companies

to solve any problems.

"There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group

product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the

anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent

"unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners and

other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000 software

programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail titles, he

says.

But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional that

works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay $199 for

an upgrade.

Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista

compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for

linking to PCs is also incompatible.

Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

"We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.

"Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

And when XP was released, some came back and asked for Windows 98..

Your point is?

"carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

news:46a0c4b4$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+pains+leave+room+for+XP/2100-1016_3-6197757.html?tag=html.alert.hed

>

> David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version

> of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars

> advertising since it came out six months ago.

>

> He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken for

> balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program that

> connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't

> communicate with the PC properly.

>

> "Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with

> market research firm IDC.

>

> Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every

> major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

>

> To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped with

> the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and

> retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product

> lines.

>

> Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their Web

> sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped machines.

>

> Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it

> compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

>

> The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported

> quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing

> help from strong Vista sales.

>

> Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that nearly

> all software and hardware is compatible.

>

> Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for

> upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

>

> Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in

> Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after it

> was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with the

> software.

>

> "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it

> with XP?'" he said.

>

> Testing users' comfort level

> The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen to

> buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

>

> "XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said

> Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon

> start supporting Vista.

>

> Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,

> something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.

>

> Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does

> not carry XP machines.

>

> The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its

> employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on

> Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be

> uncomfortable.

>

> "My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers

> running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to

> work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.

>

> Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other

> companies to solve any problems.

>

> "There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group

> product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the

> anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

>

> He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent

> "unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

>

> What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners

> and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000

> software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail

> titles, he says.

>

> But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional

> that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay

> $199 for an upgrade.

>

> Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista

> compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for

> linking to PCs is also incompatible.

>

> Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

>

> "We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.

> "Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."

>

--

Mike Hall

MS MVP Windows Shell/User

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

No no no.. that is not a good analogy.

A good analogy is that windows Me users wanted win98 back because WinMe was

crap!

The same thing is happening with winXP and Vista now.

I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted 98

back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!

And if someone would ask for such a change then.. I would look them strangly

in the eye looking for signs of insanity!

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

news:upN%235styHHA.5408@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> And when XP was released, some came back and asked for Windows 98..

>

> Your point is?

>

> "carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

> news:46a0c4b4$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>> http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+pains+leave+room+for+XP/2100-1016_3-6197757.html?tag=html.alert.hed

>>

>> David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version

>> of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars

>> advertising since it came out six months ago.

>>

>> He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken

>> for balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program

>> that connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't

>> communicate with the PC properly.

>>

>> "Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with

>> market research firm IDC.

>>

>> Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every

>> major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

>>

>> To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped

>> with the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and

>> retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product

>> lines.

>>

>> Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their

>> Web sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped

>> machines.

>>

>> Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it

>> compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

>>

>> The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported

>> quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing

>> help from strong Vista sales.

>>

>> Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that

>> nearly all software and hardware is compatible.

>>

>> Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for

>> upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

>>

>> Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in

>> Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after

>> it was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with

>> the software.

>>

>> "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace

>> it with XP?'" he said.

>>

>> Testing users' comfort level

>> The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen

>> to buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

>>

>> "XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said

>> Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon

>> start supporting Vista.

>>

>> Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,

>> something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.

>>

>> Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does

>> not carry XP machines.

>>

>> The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its

>> employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on

>> Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be

>> uncomfortable.

>>

>> "My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers

>> running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to

>> work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.

>>

>> Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other

>> companies to solve any problems.

>>

>> "There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group

>> product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the

>> anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

>>

>> He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent

>> "unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

>>

>> What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners

>> and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000

>> software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail

>> titles, he says.

>>

>> But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional

>> that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay

>> $199 for an upgrade.

>>

>> Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista

>> compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for

>> linking to PCs is also incompatible.

>>

>> Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

>>

>> "We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.

>> "Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."

>>

>

> --

>

> Mike Hall

> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come

loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real

market penetration.

Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and

have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.

Vista remains slow, incompatible with a wide variety of software and

hardware configurations, lousy for multimedia and games, impossible to use

for high end graphics, difficult to network with existing XP infrastructure

and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.

No other Microsoft OS has been so unusable at the time of its release,

including ME.

The absolute slowness of Vista across the board in all file activities

negates the premium an individual buyer is paying for with top end

components. This is beta level performance.

Vista should be released only for Mac hardware: Macs only use middle and low

end gear anyway and sell at premium prices comparable to the insane price

of Vista.

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

The problem for you is that the analogy does not support what you want it to

support.. like it or not, there were more than a few who wanted 98 in place

of XP.. for the same reasons too.. don't like the look, can't find anything,

nothing works..

"carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

news:46a0c9de@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> No no no.. that is not a good analogy.

>

> A good analogy is that windows Me users wanted win98 back because WinMe

> was crap!

> The same thing is happening with winXP and Vista now.

>

> I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted

> 98 back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!

> And if someone would ask for such a change then.. I would look them

> strangly in the eye looking for signs of insanity!

>

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

> news:upN%235styHHA.5408@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> And when XP was released, some came back and asked for Windows 98..

>>

>> Your point is?

>>

>> "carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:46a0c4b4$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>>> http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+pains+leave+room+for+XP/2100-1016_3-6197757.html?tag=html.alert.hed

>>>

>>> David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new

>>> version of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of

>>> dollars advertising since it came out six months ago.

>>>

>>> He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken

>>> for balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program

>>> that connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't

>>> communicate with the PC properly.

>>>

>>> "Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst

>>> with market research firm IDC.

>>>

>>> Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every

>>> major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

>>>

>>> To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped

>>> with the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and

>>> retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product

>>> lines.

>>>

>>> Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their

>>> Web sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped

>>> machines.

>>>

>>> Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making

>>> it compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

>>>

>>> The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported

>>> quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing

>>> help from strong Vista sales.

>>>

>>> Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that

>>> nearly all software and hardware is compatible.

>>>

>>> Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for

>>> upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

>>>

>>> Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in

>>> Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after

>>> it was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with

>>> the software.

>>>

>>> "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace

>>> it with XP?'" he said.

>>>

>>> Testing users' comfort level

>>> The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen

>>> to buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

>>>

>>> "XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said

>>> Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon

>>> start supporting Vista.

>>>

>>> Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP

>>> machines, something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school

>>> sales season.

>>>

>>> Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does

>>> not carry XP machines.

>>>

>>> The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its

>>> employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on

>>> Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be

>>> uncomfortable.

>>>

>>> "My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers

>>> running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to

>>> work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.

>>>

>>> Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other

>>> companies to solve any problems.

>>>

>>> "There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group

>>> product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the

>>> anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

>>>

>>> He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent

>>> "unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

>>>

>>> What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners

>>> and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000

>>> software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail

>>> titles, he says.

>>>

>>> But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional

>>> that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay

>>> $199 for an upgrade.

>>>

>>> Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista

>>> compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for

>>> linking to PCs is also incompatible.

>>>

>>> Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

>>>

>>> "We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.

>>> "Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."

>>>

>>

>> --

>>

>> Mike Hall

>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>>

>

--

Mike Hall

MS MVP Windows Shell/User

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

>Vista should be released only for Mac hardware

Haha now thats a first.. but what you say is logical..

also another thing you could say that you should use it only with microsoft

*updated* software.

"babaloo" <fac187@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:y34oi.12061$rL1.10592@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...

> Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come

> loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real

> market penetration.

> Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and

> have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.

> Vista remains slow, incompatible with a wide variety of software and

> hardware configurations, lousy for multimedia and games, impossible to use

> for high end graphics, difficult to network with existing XP

> infrastructure and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.

> No other Microsoft OS has been so unusable at the time of its release,

> including ME.

> The absolute slowness of Vista across the board in all file activities

> negates the premium an individual buyer is paying for with top end

> components. This is beta level performance.

> Vista should be released only for Mac hardware: Macs only use middle and

> low end gear anyway and sell at premium prices comparable to the insane

> price of Vista.

>

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Points that you made equally applied to the W2K-XP transition.. mission

critical operations require absolute stability and compatibility.. nothing

has changed over the years.. there is no argument here.. never has been..

"babaloo" <fac187@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:y34oi.12061$rL1.10592@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...

> Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come

> loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real

> market penetration.

> Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and

> have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.

> Vista remains slow, incompatible with a wide variety of software and

> hardware configurations, lousy for multimedia and games, impossible to use

> for high end graphics, difficult to network with existing XP

> infrastructure and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.

> No other Microsoft OS has been so unusable at the time of its release,

> including ME.

> The absolute slowness of Vista across the board in all file activities

> negates the premium an individual buyer is paying for with top end

> components. This is beta level performance.

> Vista should be released only for Mac hardware: Macs only use middle and

> low end gear anyway and sell at premium prices comparable to the insane

> price of Vista.

>

--

Mike Hall

MS MVP Windows Shell/User

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Just because vista has a flashy theme doesnt make it better technology. It

doesnt really have much more to offer. Sorry.

I like new software... there is only one acception from all the software I

have ever used in my life. Vista.

Vista is new but it is so bad that even though my habbits are to always have

the latest and greatest,

vistas poor quality made me change that. I mean I can put up with a lot of

crap.. but I also have to get things done!

"Mike" <no@where.man> wrote in message

news:13435D14-461A-4E18-B8B3-621B29FB8165@microsoft.com...

> "carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

> news:46a0c9de@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>> I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted

>> 98 back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!

>

> Then you don't know many people.

>

> Most people are naturally resistant to change. They don't like "new"

> when they are comfortable with "old and familiar". In a few years time

> people will look back at XP and think "I used to actually *use* this?" I

> thought that about Windows 2000 a few years ago, and am quickly starting

> to feel that way about XP.

>

> Mike

>

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off andreplace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off andreplace it with XP?'"

babaloo wrote:

> Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come

> loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real

> market penetration.

On, so you're in the market survey business?

> Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and

> have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.

Rollouts in large companies won't happen until most of the employees are

using Vista at home. This in effect, save the company from disarray and

saves the IT's ass. Vista is not XP + eye candy. It is a new learning

experience.

> Vista remains slow,

Not if you have the proper hardware...

incompatible with a wide variety of software and

> hardware configurations,

Hummmm...name the "wide variety" of software/hardware it's

incompatibility with, ok...

lousy for multimedia and games,

Games I don't know but we have no problem with multimedia...

impossible to use for high end graphics,

Ut oh...bullsh*t...just lost your credibility...not true and you have no

idea what you're talking about...

difficult to network with existing XP infrastructure

> and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.

Now you've shoved your ignorant head way up your arse....

Nah...you're not even close to being right.

Obviously, you've never used Vista Ultimate on a correctly configured

machine.

Get lost fool.

Frank

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

news:%23QFSi$tyHHA.4820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Points that you made equally applied to the W2K-XP transition..

I get the impression that some of these people here whining about Vista are

too young to remember that. They apparently grew up with XP and it's all

they know.

At least they certainly give that impression with their "It's too big, too

bloated, too much eye candy, too incompatible with existing apps/hardware,

no drivers" and on and on and on.

We heard ALL of this at XP's launch, and at 2000's launch, and at NT 4's

launch, and at NT 3.1's launch.

Mike

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

"carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

news:46a0d095@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> Just because vista has a flashy theme doesnt make it better technology. It

> doesnt really have much more to offer. Sorry.

The theme is the least of Vista's improvements. One of the machines I'm

running it on is a ThinkPad T41 laptop. I can't even GET Aero because of

the video card (32 meg Mobility Radeon 9000), but I'd still rather use Vista

than XP on this machine. Better all-around performance due to MUCH better

memory management (I have 1 GB) and MUCH better included apps. Windows Mail

is certainly a better newsreader than Outlook Express!

Mike

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

ROFL!! You've obviously never spent much time in the Win98 groups. there are

*still* folks dropping in there who want to revert from XP to 98. When XP

was new, the issue was quite prevalent.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://www.grystmill.com

"carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

news:46a0c9de@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> No no no.. that is not a good analogy.

>

> A good analogy is that windows Me users wanted win98 back because WinMe

> was crap!

> The same thing is happening with winXP and Vista now.

>

> I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted

> 98 back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!

> And if someone would ask for such a change then.. I would look them

> strangly in the eye looking for signs of insanity!

>

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

> news:upN%235styHHA.5408@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> And when XP was released, some came back and asked for Windows 98..

>>

>> Your point is?

>>

>> "carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:46a0c4b4$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>>> http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+pains+leave+room+for+XP/2100-1016_3-6197757.html?tag=html.alert.hed

>>>

>>> David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new

>>> version of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of

>>> dollars advertising since it came out six months ago.

>>>

>>> He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken

>>> for balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program

>>> that connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't

>>> communicate with the PC properly.

>>>

>>> "Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst

>>> with market research firm IDC.

>>>

>>> Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every

>>> major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

>>>

>>> To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped

>>> with the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and

>>> retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product

>>> lines.

>>>

>>> Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their

>>> Web sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped

>>> machines.

>>>

>>> Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making

>>> it compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

>>>

>>> The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported

>>> quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing

>>> help from strong Vista sales.

>>>

>>> Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that

>>> nearly all software and hardware is compatible.

>>>

>>> Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for

>>> upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

>>>

>>> Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in

>>> Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after

>>> it was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with

>>> the software.

>>>

>>> "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace

>>> it with XP?'" he said.

>>>

>>> Testing users' comfort level

>>> The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen

>>> to buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

>>>

>>> "XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said

>>> Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon

>>> start supporting Vista.

>>>

>>> Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP

>>> machines, something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school

>>> sales season.

>>>

>>> Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does

>>> not carry XP machines.

>>>

>>> The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its

>>> employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on

>>> Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be

>>> uncomfortable.

>>>

>>> "My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers

>>> running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to

>>> work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.

>>>

>>> Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other

>>> companies to solve any problems.

>>>

>>> "There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group

>>> product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the

>>> anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

>>>

>>> He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent

>>> "unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

>>>

>>> What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners

>>> and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000

>>> software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail

>>> titles, he says.

>>>

>>> But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional

>>> that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay

>>> $199 for an upgrade.

>>>

>>> Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista

>>> compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for

>>> linking to PCs is also incompatible.

>>>

>>> Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

>>>

>>> "We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.

>>> "Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."

>>>

>>

>> --

>>

>> Mike Hall

>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User

>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>>

>

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:58:32 -0400, "Mike" <no@where.man> wrote:

>"carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

>news:46a0c9de@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>> I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted

>> 98 back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!

>

>Then you don't know many people.

>

>Most people are naturally resistant to change. They don't like "new" when

>they are comfortable with "old and familiar". In a few years time people

>will look back at XP and think "I used to actually *use* this?" I thought

>that about Windows 2000 a few years ago, and am quickly starting to feel

>that way about XP.

>

>Mike

You're missing the point. XP was a major leap compared to prior

versions of Windows. Vista is mostly added eye candy and clunky,

poorly implemented "features" like UAC and slower file transfers for

many users. A safe bet Vista will get better over time, nobody is

arguing that it won't, but as it is now, it needs work.

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

"Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message

news:OkMmUJuyHHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> ROFL!! You've obviously never spent much time in the Win98 groups. there

> are *still* folks dropping in there who want to revert from XP to 98. When

> XP was new, the issue was quite prevalent.

"Quite Prevalent" is the understatement of the year! People were claiming

that XP was "the chink in the MS armor that (Linux and/or OS X) needed to

get real market share gains".

Sound familiar? Same old, same old.

Mike

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

>Windows Mail

is certainly a better newsreader than Outlook Express!

win mail IS outlook express with small changes and a new name!

the most significant change is that it doesn't use DBX anymore.. but even

THAT creates problems....

>Better all-around performance due to MUCH better

> memory management (I have 1 GB) and MUCH

Vista performance improvement? You are delusional man.... sheeshhhh

Vista is slower than XP. Its all around the internet.. but it seems you dont

surf that much.

What are you doing? Sitting in front of vista playing with flip 3d and

sidebar all day?

The real world shows that vista is FAR behind in performance compared to XP.

When cornered the vista users throw this excuse:

"No new version of windows was ever faster than its predecessor"

>and MUCH better included apps

Dont make me laugh! What better apps? The games? Or the snippet tool? lol

La-dee-daaa!

The only thing that you could say is a plus is media center for home

users... since it is vista home premium is the equivilent of

XP home....

But I personally dont like media center...

"Mike" <no@where.man> wrote in message

news:F791367D-702E-435E-8817-49AC098EB29D@microsoft.com...

> "carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

> news:46a0d095@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>> Just because vista has a flashy theme doesnt make it better technology.

>> It doesnt really have much more to offer. Sorry.

>

> The theme is the least of Vista's improvements. One of the machines I'm

> running it on is a ThinkPad T41 laptop. I can't even GET Aero because of

> the video card (32 meg Mobility Radeon 9000), but I'd still rather use

> Vista than XP on this machine. Better all-around performance due to MUCH

> better memory management (I have 1 GB) and MUCH better included apps.

> Windows Mail is certainly a better newsreader than Outlook Express!

>

> Mike

>

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Too young maybe, convenient memories maybe.. a desire to bash MS most

definitely..

"Mike" <no@where.man> wrote in message

news:usPrSEuyHHA.1072@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

> news:%23QFSi$tyHHA.4820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Points that you made equally applied to the W2K-XP transition..

>

> I get the impression that some of these people here whining about Vista

> are too young to remember that. They apparently grew up with XP and it's

> all they know.

>

> At least they certainly give that impression with their "It's too big, too

> bloated, too much eye candy, too incompatible with existing apps/hardware,

> no drivers" and on and on and on.

>

> We heard ALL of this at XP's launch, and at 2000's launch, and at NT 4's

> launch, and at NT 3.1's launch.

>

> Mike

>

--

Mike Hall

MS MVP Windows Shell/User

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message

news:3ok1a3l3c5kgbars0md9dr1hbv24qn7ujl@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:58:32 -0400, "Mike" <no@where.man> wrote:

> You're missing the point. XP was a major leap compared to prior

> versions of Windows.

No, *you* are missing the point. No one called XP "a major leap" in 2001.

It was called "2000 with eye candy".

You seem to have no memory of this. Amazing.

Mike

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off andreplace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off andreplace it with XP?'"

* Mike:

> "carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

> news:46a0d095@newsgate.x-privat.org...

>> Just because vista has a flashy theme doesnt make it better technology. It

>> doesnt really have much more to offer. Sorry.

>

> The theme is the least of Vista's improvements. One of the machines I'm

> running it on is a ThinkPad T41 laptop. I can't even GET Aero because of

> the video card (32 meg Mobility Radeon 9000), but I'd still rather use Vista

> than XP on this machine. Better all-around performance due to MUCH better

> memory management (I have 1 GB) and MUCH better included apps.

> Windows Mail

> is certainly a better newsreader than Outlook Express!

With that statement, you have lost all credibility.

FYI, Windows Mail will be phased out and replaced

by Windows Live Mail. Windows Mail is not being

developed anymore, except for security updates.

To Microsoft's credit they realized how bad Windows Mail

was and have moved forward with Windows Live Mail.

Do keep up, please.

-Michael

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off andreplace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off andreplace it with XP?'"

Adam Albright wrote:

> You're missing the point. XP was a major leap compared to prior

> versions of Windows...

BullHonk!!! It was Windows 2000 with a face full of makeup and fishnet

stockings!

John

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

"carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

news:46a0c4b4$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+pains+leave+room+for+XP/2100-1016_3-6197757.html?tag=html.alert.hed

>

> David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version

> of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars

> advertising since it came out six months ago.

>

> He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken for

> balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program that

> connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't

> communicate with the PC properly.

>

> "Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with

> market research firm IDC.

>

> Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every

> major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

>

> To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped with

> the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and

> retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product

> lines.

>

> Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their Web

> sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped machines.

>

> Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it

> compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

>

> The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported

> quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing

> help from strong Vista sales.

>

> Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that nearly

> all software and hardware is compatible.

>

> Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for

> upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

>

> Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in

> Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after it

> was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with the

> software.

>

> "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it

> with XP?'" he said.

>

> Testing users' comfort level

> The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen to

> buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

>

> "XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said

> Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon

> start supporting Vista.

>

> Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,

> something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.

>

> Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does

> not carry XP machines.

>

> The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its

> employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on

> Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be

> uncomfortable.

>

> "My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers

> running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to

> work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.

>

> Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other

> companies to solve any problems.

>

> "There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group

> product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the

> anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

>

> He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent

> "unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

>

> What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners

> and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000

> software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail

> titles, he says.

>

> But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional

> that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay

> $199 for an upgrade.

>

> Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista

> compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for

> linking to PCs is also incompatible.

>

> Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

>

> "We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.

> "Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."

>

If such problems exist, and MS is aware of it, why not a disclaimer on the

box or sheet inside the box indicating those 3rd party apps versions, and

hardware? Is the list that long? Or is MS in pseudo-denial again?

Dave

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

"MICHAEL" <u158627_emr2@dslr.net> wrote in message

news:OvRwTRuyHHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>* Mike:

>> Windows Mail

>> is certainly a better newsreader than Outlook Express!

>

> With that statement, you have lost all credibility.

> by Windows Live Mail. Windows Mail is not being

> developed anymore, except for security updates.

> To Microsoft's credit they realized how bad Windows Mail

> was and have moved forward with Windows Live Mail.

None of which changes the fact that it's still better than OE.

Mike

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:17:21 -0400, "Mike" <no@where.man> wrote:

>"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message

>news:%23QFSi$tyHHA.4820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Points that you made equally applied to the W2K-XP transition..

>

>I get the impression that some of these people here whining about Vista are

>too young to remember that. They apparently grew up with XP and it's all

>they know.

>

>At least they certainly give that impression with their "It's too big, too

>bloated, too much eye candy, too incompatible with existing apps/hardware,

>no drivers" and on and on and on.

>

>We heard ALL of this at XP's launch, and at 2000's launch, and at NT 4's

>launch, and at NT 3.1's launch.

>

>Mike

What we also hear is the typical full of hot air Microsoft fanboy

badly faking trying to pass himself off as expert and using this

newsgroup to pontificate.

That shoe seems to fit not only you Mike, but way too many others that

infest this newsgroup and make it next to useless since they refuse to

be objective and only know how to sing the praises of Microsoft rather

than honestly trying to see BOTH sides of each issue and accepting

many people really do have serious issues with Vista and it has

nothing to do with drivers or hardware but failings of Vista itself

which fanboys refuse to admit exist.

July 20, 2007

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

Re: "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

"carl feredeck" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message

news:46a0d601@newsgate.x-privat.org...

> >Windows Mail

> is certainly a better newsreader than Outlook Express!

>

> win mail IS outlook express with small changes and a new name!

> the most significant change is that it doesn't use DBX anymore.. but even

> THAT creates problems....

Yes, I know that. The biggest improvement is that it doesn't force you to

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