Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour .... > I never automatically update anything. But when I do a manual > update I carefully read what it applies to and then do it. > Never had a problem. NVIDIA video driver is a classic example. > I will say, there are some I refuse to download and install. Me, too, Unknown. I am just ready to restart after installing the 2nd half of the August 14 updates. I lurk and wait, saw a couple of problems reported but no one else moaned, so I decided it was safe. And, yes, I DID set my own RP. > "Bogey Man" <spam@kwic.com> wrote in message > news:O3PF$qA4HHA.5740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message >> news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net... >>> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only >>> provides you with security updates. Never gives you an >>> update for a driver for example. I do my updates manually >>> and on at least two occasions stopped a download that should >>> NOT have been presented. >> >> I would never let MS update automatically update any driver >> for hardware. Get the updates from the manufacturer of the >> equipment. > > > -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest student Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? On 2007-08-16, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote: > student added these comments in the current discussion du jour > ... > >> Can't resist the comment about "getting a good grade" & >> trolling. >> >> I am a student, a "professional student", taking advantage of >> the programs for people over 60 that is available in the state >> university system & have read a few years back that such >> programs are available at about 40 states. Going back to >> school is wonderful & helps lessen some of the >> narrow-mindedness of ourselves in different areas, at least it >> is for me. > > There's no such thing as a "professional student" unless you just > enjoy the pain of studying for the helluva it. But, yes, you did > troll us by pleading for help in a naive way without telling the > truth about what you were trying to accomplish, which is why I > whacked you. If you're going to be a pro student, then you'd best > learn how to do independent study of both printed and web/Usenet- > based literature and not try to con more experienced people into > doing your homework for you. That is ineffective in learning as > well as rude. The "professional student" is my own comment on what I'm doing; just like others "coined" their own descriptions of whatever including the interpretation of meanings. I didn't "troll" nor did I ask for help; it was a comment. "Independent study" appears to be "googling" for answers which has another set of problems as the results depend on how the the search is worded & in what sequence. Telling people to google for answers imply that the commentator believe the end-all & final answers are found via google, even if the last comment found was a year or more old. > >> My computer experience is admittedly old & dealing with >> mainframes; & then the xfer of data between the pc, tandem, >> dec & the mainframe. The pc's being used were as a substitute >> for dumb terminals & documentation until at the end where it >> was used for data collection. >> >> However, it does seem no one admits to being on either >> compuserve or genie isp's when microsoft had official support >> forums prior to selling the forum names to the windows user >> group in compuserve. I think that the absence of official ms >> support in the newsgroups evolved because ms would hear about >> too many bugs in the software where it would be difficult to >> sweep under the rug & not get paid for the "free support". > > I go back the the Comuserve days and I DID research the various > manufacturer's libraries, whatever they were called. Today, I go > directly to a manufacturer's web site or at least Google for an > answer. I only come to a support NG, this one or anyone, when > I've completely failed to find mention of my problem and I've > exhausted all attempts even after Googling my brains out. > The manufacturer's libraies only and not their forum mail or whatever its called; I haven't found a manufacturer's libraries contain any of the msgs on their forums. > Besides what I learned about learning in engineering school, > which I described to you in detail, I learned how to learn on my > diverse job assignments from rookie engineer to Senior Manager, > by taking classes, seminars, reading, and later, Internet > research. And, I GENTLY worked with those more knowledgeble than > me to learn, but NEVER just blindly hit them up for a solution > because /I/ wanted to figure it out on my own. When other people > do your work for you, and my daughter used to try to con me into > that through her entire 16 years of formal education, you really > do fail to grasp what is happening. Eistein said it best: > > "Insanity is doing the same things and expecting a different > outcome." Get on the stick, learn the best methods for you to > learn whatever a pro student wants to, and go for it. I have had > a philsophy since my youth that I believe can be summed up this > way: learning is a lifetime endeavor. Today, besides Googling, > for non-technical things, I haunt cable news and the more factual > cable channels, but THEN /I/ verify the new information on my own > to decide if it is truth or fiction. Works well, give it a try. It does appear you believe most/many questions for solutions in the newsgroups are done by people who don't do any research for answers & ask because of limited resources or believe that they hit a "stone wall". The news media are commentators. Why do you think I'm visiting various newsgroups? It is a source of info whether accurate or not; have an open mind regarding to people posting on the newsgroups even if there are exceptions. The quote doesn't allow for external changes; guess whats been happening regarding what has been done the "same way" for a very long time. I even remember that, once the "noble elements" cannot be combined with another element & believed for decades; until a high school chem teacher accidently did it. There is no guarrantee that everything can be done with 100% certainty "forever", the insanity is to expect 100% certainty in everything. Remember about the book 1984? Supposedly a high dictorship by the "conservatives" but I find that it is the "liberals" & "consumer groups"/environmentalists who are doing the dictating currently on what we do or eat or live or play in lockstep. BTW, I'm not taking any courses in the computer area nor am I taking classes for grades. And on considering where is the problem, the user doesn't usually know if it is the os or app or driver. And considering the interactions between all 3 areas, each is often pointing fingers at the other for the fault and how is one to get "real" proof other than asking questions & getting different answers from people who are the knowledgeable experts? The subject of SP3 caught my eye & naturally I become interested on when it will be avaliable as well as what potholes one may encounter. I finally updated to SP2 only because of new hardware & re-install of winxp. Once, I asked a question about why a couple of software vendors were "pushing" SP2 when what I've read prior was that it was "all" firewall & security & not needed; I was brushed off as a troll even if the question is legitimate as it appeared to me that ms wanted vendors to push SP2 as a dialogue would popup saying there will be many problems if SP2 was not used. Also read in this newsgroup that said framework 2.0 has everything that 1.0/1.1 has & yet the Steet Atlas USA 2008 won't install without 1.1 installed........appears some people got info too late.... > >> On 2007-08-15, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote: >>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du >>> jour ... >>> >>>> You need to get some facts straightened out. Windows is an >>>> Operating System, not a printer driver. You appear to be >>>> emotional rather than objective. Could very well have been a >>>> virus? What was the solution? >>> >>> Agreed. In ANY technical issue, or even seemingly benign >>> things like politics, I find it best to be the most factual >>> and the least emotional I can be. I have strong opinions, >>> demonstrably, but they are based on experience and not >>> getting bent outta shape for a truly minor problem, yet >>> blaming the entire thing on MS. >>> >>> Seems to me that I accused "student" of trolling all of us so >>> he/she can get a good grade in some freshman computer science >>> class instead of doing controlled testing and diagnostics, >>> starting always with a comprehensive malware scan. >>> >>> "student" <guest@csus_.edu> >>>> wrote in message >>>> news:slrnfc4o5s.403.guest@crane.li-po.edu... >>>>> It would depend on the "few" bugs wouldn't it? like a >>>>> report that doesn't get printed because garbage was coming >>>>> out of the printer for that person on the lan printer? >>>>> especially the report was for the supervisor..... >>>>> >>>>> ms support say reload the driver which was already done; ms >>>>> support say that there is a virus; user say text only files >>>>> can get printed just word docs produce garbage. ms suport >>>>> say call you back later & is never here from again. >>>>> >>>>> A few bugs? I do hope windows isn't ever used on planes or >>>>> control equipment in hospitals. The os isn't ready to do >>>>> the things that ms claims if bugs & unreliability are >>>>> acceptable. >>>>> >>>>> I now shudder that I heard in the news that it is intended >>>>> to have windows running some stuff in cars.......the >>>>> "accidents" happened, be reasonable, there are million >>>>> lines of code in windows, whats a few bugs... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 2007-08-14, Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote: >>>>>> If indeed you were a programmer particularly a >>>>>> micro-programmer then you should have enough experience to >>>>>> recognize the complexity of an operating system plus all >>>>>> the micro-code that operates the hardware. If you were in >>>>>> development you would know that regardless of the amount >>>>>> of testing some bugs will show up after release. How can >>>>>> you possibly be so critical of a few bugs? Compare today's >>>>>> PC's with those of just a few years ago. Be objective not >>>>>> emotional. "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message >>>>>> news:Xns998CAD067DE20ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... >>>>>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du >>>>>>> jour ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wed at the hips----------???? Supposing you wrote the >>>>>>>> OS. How would you control it and/or keep your customers >>>>>>>> happy. Many companies write programs to run with XP (the >>>>>>>> OS) and when a problem occurs, MS is immediately >>>>>>>> blamed. Be objective. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let's just say that I've been around MS more than long >>>>>>> enough, all the way back to the original PC that didn't >>>>>>> even have DOS, that came in with the XT, to understand >>>>>>> them pretty well. I don't mean to be vindictively >>>>>>> critical, but surely you will admit they have less than a >>>>>>> stellar record of their own releases, they have a rep for >>>>>>> hiding key parts of their various APIs even from those >>>>>>> who buy their development packages all the way back to >>>>>>> the SDK, reverse engineering of several versions of the >>>>>>> major components of MS Office have been found to contain >>>>>>> fairly large percentages of commands and API calls that >>>>>>> seem not to be documented, and MS like all commercial >>>>>>> companies reserves the rights to control its copyrighted >>>>>>> software and give "guidance" to developers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't say, BTW, that all problems are MS, I am not at >>>>>>> all that naive and not at all an anti-MS bigot to believe >>>>>>> that. Rogue and misbehaving applications, especially >>>>>>> systems utilities of all kinds, are rampant throughout >>>>>>> the 25 years since the first PC, they suffer from their >>>>>>> own bugs, side-effects bugs, and the rush to bring new >>>>>>> versions to market no matter what. This super >>>>>>> competitiveness all the way around makes for not only >>>>>>> strange bedfellows but interlocking dependencies that can >>>>>>> make full diagnosis of major or even minor systems issue >>>>>>> deceptively difficult. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hung up my programmer clothes circa 1995 or so, thus I >>>>>>> am more than a little out-of-date for direct knowledge of >>>>>>> whence I speak, but in monitoring this and many other >>>>>>> NGs, I see no real signs of improvement, if anything, I >>>>>>> think the situation is deteriorating. I'm sorry if you >>>>>>> feel I am not being objective, let's just say that I am a >>>>>>> pragmatist and always suspicious of extravagent claims >>>>>>> from ANY developer on either side of problems. Thanks for >>>>>>> listening. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:Xns998C98FC72C16ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... >>>>>>>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion >>>>>>>>> du jour ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Look closely at all the postings in this group. You'll >>>>>>>>>> be amazed that most problems are not caused by MS but >>>>>>>>>> by Non MS programs, reg cleaners, and virus >>>>>>>>>> detect/scan protection? programs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That may well be true, but the major developers are wed >>>>>>>>> at the hips body and soul to the God of Microsoft >>>>>>>>> because they must play ball or risk losing their >>>>>>>>> certification. But, it is certainly true that reg >>>>>>>>> cleaners in the hands of the novices will wreck an >>>>>>>>> otherwise good system and are more harm than good most >>>>>>>>> of the time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> HP, aka Jerry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> HP, aka Jerry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > >
Guest Ken Blake, MVP Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:53:00 -0000, "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote: > To put it in a nutshell, if ALL of us, and that sure as hell > includes me!, would stay factual and avoid emotional or > hysterican responses or stereotypical notions, we'll all do much > better. Agree with that? Of course. -- Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? student added these comments in the current discussion du jour .... > On 2007-08-16, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote: >> student added these comments in the current discussion du >> jour ... Are you or are you not the person who asked how to flash a BIOS. If not, then I owe you an apology. But, if you are, then you really need to get a life. Whoever DID ask for that later admitted to taking a college class and didn't understand the term. Well, "person who said it", that is what college and learning is all about! One FIRST goes to available sources of printed or digital literature with as exhausting a search as it takes, then you do more, and then you do even more. Then, and only then, do you/"person who asked this" come to a support NG and ask for help, and even include the nonsensical comment that they couldn't download anything because they had no O/S. Everything has an O/S except perhaps a very trivial computer that you built and are running exclusively from the BIOS. Even if the latter, it is trivially easy to go to a college or public library and use THEIR Internet connection. I think the phrase "Google is your best friend" clearly applies here. Now, having read/re-read what you said here, it DOES appear that I mistook you for the troll because of your handle. So, I WILL apologize for chastizing you inappropriately. Now, whether you're taking classes for grades, grins, or just for general knowledge, my advice still stands. Specifically to SP3, I assume that YOU - i.e., the correct "you" - have the MS KB on your IE toolbar, so THAT would be the FIRST place I would go and simply search for XP SP3" and you or anyone in this debate could've figured all this out. Finally, I'll repeat my opinion for them who're silently following this thread: people tell me I'm a bright guy, but it completely flummoxes me that so many good citizens have some sort of OCD that compels them to be the first kid on their block with a new anything, no matter what. By analogy, it is like not diving into a pool of water until you know how deep it is, which is PRECISELY what the early SP3 adopters will be doing, and, BTW, precisely like the growing installed base of Vista users are doing. WRT Vista, if you're buying a new commercial PC, you're stuck, but even then, many manufacturers will load XP. I just do NOT beta test with my Visa card, but I'm more than happy to see others do that for me. So, again, I'm sorry I jumped down the wrong throat. >>> Can't resist the comment about "getting a good grade" & >>> trolling. >>> >>> I am a student, a "professional student", taking advantage >>> of the programs for people over 60 that is available in the >>> state university system & have read a few years back that >>> such programs are available at about 40 states. Going back >>> to school is wonderful & helps lessen some of the >>> narrow-mindedness of ourselves in different areas, at least >>> it is for me. >> >> There's no such thing as a "professional student" unless you >> just enjoy the pain of studying for the helluva it. But, yes, >> you did troll us by pleading for help in a naive way without >> telling the truth about what you were trying to accomplish, >> which is why I whacked you. If you're going to be a pro >> student, then you'd best learn how to do independent study of >> both printed and web/Usenet- based literature and not try to >> con more experienced people into doing your homework for you. >> That is ineffective in learning as well as rude. > > The "professional student" is my own comment on what I'm > doing; just like others "coined" their own descriptions of > whatever including the interpretation of meanings. I didn't > "troll" nor did I ask for help; it was a comment. > "Independent study" appears to be "googling" for answers which > has another set of problems as the results depend on how the > the search is worded & in what sequence. Telling people to > google for answers imply that the commentator believe the > end-all & final answers are found via google, even if the last > comment found was a year or more old. > > >> >>> My computer experience is admittedly old & dealing with >>> mainframes; & then the xfer of data between the pc, tandem, >>> dec & the mainframe. The pc's being used were as a >>> substitute for dumb terminals & documentation until at the >>> end where it was used for data collection. >>> >>> However, it does seem no one admits to being on either >>> compuserve or genie isp's when microsoft had official >>> support forums prior to selling the forum names to the >>> windows user group in compuserve. I think that the absence >>> of official ms support in the newsgroups evolved because ms >>> would hear about too many bugs in the software where it >>> would be difficult to sweep under the rug & not get paid for >>> the "free support". >> >> I go back the the Comuserve days and I DID research the >> various manufacturer's libraries, whatever they were called. >> Today, I go directly to a manufacturer's web site or at least >> Google for an answer. I only come to a support NG, this one >> or anyone, when I've completely failed to find mention of my >> problem and I've exhausted all attempts even after Googling >> my brains out. >> > The manufacturer's libraies only and not their forum mail or > whatever its called; I haven't found a manufacturer's > libraries contain any of the msgs on their forums. > >> Besides what I learned about learning in engineering school, >> which I described to you in detail, I learned how to learn on >> my diverse job assignments from rookie engineer to Senior >> Manager, by taking classes, seminars, reading, and later, >> Internet research. And, I GENTLY worked with those more >> knowledgeble than me to learn, but NEVER just blindly hit >> them up for a solution because /I/ wanted to figure it out on >> my own. When other people do your work for you, and my >> daughter used to try to con me into that through her entire >> 16 years of formal education, you really do fail to grasp >> what is happening. Eistein said it best: >> >> "Insanity is doing the same things and expecting a different >> outcome." Get on the stick, learn the best methods for you to >> learn whatever a pro student wants to, and go for it. I have >> had a philsophy since my youth that I believe can be summed >> up this way: learning is a lifetime endeavor. Today, besides >> Googling, for non-technical things, I haunt cable news and >> the more factual cable channels, but THEN /I/ verify the new >> information on my own to decide if it is truth or fiction. >> Works well, give it a try. > > It does appear you believe most/many questions for solutions > in the newsgroups are done by people who don't do any research > for answers & ask because of limited resources or believe that > they hit a "stone wall". The news media are commentators. > Why do you think I'm visiting various newsgroups? It is a > source of info whether accurate or not; have an open mind > regarding to people posting on the newsgroups even if there > are exceptions. > > The quote doesn't allow for external changes; guess whats been > happening regarding what has been done the "same way" for a > very long time. I even remember that, once the "noble > elements" cannot be combined with another element & believed > for decades; until a high school chem teacher accidently did > it. There is no guarrantee that everything can be done with > 100% certainty "forever", the insanity is to expect 100% > certainty in everything. > > Remember about the book 1984? Supposedly a high dictorship > by the "conservatives" but I find that it is the "liberals" > & "consumer groups"/environmentalists who are doing the > dictating currently on what we do or eat or live or play > in lockstep. > > BTW, I'm not taking any courses in the computer area > nor am I taking classes for grades. > > And on considering where is the problem, the user doesn't > usually know if it is the os or app or driver. And > considering the interactions between all 3 areas, each is > often pointing fingers at the other for the fault and how is > one to get "real" proof other than asking questions & getting > different answers from people who are the knowledgeable > experts? > > The subject of SP3 caught my eye & naturally I become > interested on when it will be avaliable as well as what > potholes one may encounter. I finally updated to SP2 only > because of new hardware & re-install of winxp. > > Once, I asked a question about why a couple of software > vendors were "pushing" SP2 when what I've read prior was that > it was "all" firewall & security & not needed; I was brushed > off as a troll even if the question is legitimate as it > appeared to me that ms wanted vendors to push SP2 as a > dialogue would popup saying there will be many problems if SP2 > was not used. > > Also read in this newsgroup that said framework 2.0 has > everything that 1.0/1.1 has & yet the Steet Atlas USA 2008 > won't install without 1.1 installed........appears some people > got info too late.... > > >> >>> On 2007-08-15, HEMI-Powered <none@none.sn> wrote: >>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du >>>> jour ... >>>> >>>>> You need to get some facts straightened out. Windows is an >>>>> Operating System, not a printer driver. You appear to be >>>>> emotional rather than objective. Could very well have been >>>>> a virus? What was the solution? >>>> >>>> Agreed. In ANY technical issue, or even seemingly benign >>>> things like politics, I find it best to be the most factual >>>> and the least emotional I can be. I have strong opinions, >>>> demonstrably, but they are based on experience and not >>>> getting bent outta shape for a truly minor problem, yet >>>> blaming the entire thing on MS. >>>> >>>> Seems to me that I accused "student" of trolling all of us >>>> so he/she can get a good grade in some freshman computer >>>> science class instead of doing controlled testing and >>>> diagnostics, starting always with a comprehensive malware >>>> scan. -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest Unknown Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? !6 updates! I haven't had a single problem as yet. "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message news:Xns998E839C78A9BReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... > Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour > ... > >> I never automatically update anything. But when I do a manual >> update I carefully read what it applies to and then do it. >> Never had a problem. NVIDIA video driver is a classic example. >> I will say, there are some I refuse to download and install. > > Me, too, Unknown. I am just ready to restart after installing the > 2nd half of the August 14 updates. I lurk and wait, saw a couple of > problems reported but no one else moaned, so I decided it was safe. > And, yes, I DID set my own RP. > >> "Bogey Man" <spam@kwic.com> wrote in message >> news:O3PF$qA4HHA.5740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message >>> news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net... >>>> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only >>>> provides you with security updates. Never gives you an >>>> update for a driver for example. I do my updates manually >>>> and on at least two occasions stopped a download that should >>>> NOT have been presented. >>> >>> I would never let MS update automatically update any driver >>> for hardware. Get the updates from the manufacturer of the >>> equipment. >> >> >> > > > > -- > HP, aka Jerry
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour .... > !6 updates! I haven't had a single problem as yet. 6 updates of what, Unknown? Windows versions, SPs, what? I don't know my number but it doesn't really matter as I am conservative enough that I make damn well sure whatever it is has been thoroughly tested by end-users, where NGs like this one are so valuable in lurk mode. That said, the basic Murphy's Law says that just because you've had 6 or 600 successes doesn't mean that the next one isn't some heinous disaster. Therefore, I do not give Murphy an even break ever and I don't trust to the probabilities, either. Incidently, math gurus will tell you that you cannot prove either a possitive or negative hypothsis by citing examples because all it takes is ONE except to either prove or disprove the thesis. For people who're running flush with the belief that they are invulnerable are the ones most often the most P.O.'d when the thing dies. It is said that the time most people decide to backup their data is the day AFTER their HD crashes. A little late. So, we both do what we think is best for us, right? Have a great evening! > "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message > news:Xns998E839C78A9BReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... >> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du >> jour ... >> >>> I never automatically update anything. But when I do a >>> manual update I carefully read what it applies to and then >>> do it. Never had a problem. NVIDIA video driver is a classic >>> example. I will say, there are some I refuse to download and >>> install. >> >> Me, too, Unknown. I am just ready to restart after installing >> the 2nd half of the August 14 updates. I lurk and wait, saw a >> couple of problems reported but no one else moaned, so I >> decided it was safe. And, yes, I DID set my own RP. >> >>> "Bogey Man" <spam@kwic.com> wrote in message >>> news:O3PF$qA4HHA.5740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message >>>> news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net... >>>>> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only >>>>> provides you with security updates. Never gives you an >>>>> update for a driver for example. I do my updates manually >>>>> and on at least two occasions stopped a download that >>>>> should NOT have been presented. >>>> >>>> I would never let MS update automatically update any driver >>>> for hardware. Get the updates from the manufacturer of the >>>> equipment. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> HP, aka Jerry > > > -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest Unknown Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? As I said, I do manual updates. After I clicked on Windows Update and selected 'custom' there were 16 security updates available to download and install. "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message news:Xns998EAD547FBC5ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... > Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour > ... > >> !6 updates! I haven't had a single problem as yet. > > 6 updates of what, Unknown? Windows versions, SPs, what? I don't > know my number but it doesn't really matter as I am conservative > enough that I make damn well sure whatever it is has been > thoroughly tested by end-users, where NGs like this one are so > valuable in lurk mode. > > That said, the basic Murphy's Law says that just because you've > had 6 or 600 successes doesn't mean that the next one isn't some > heinous disaster. Therefore, I do not give Murphy an even break > ever and I don't trust to the probabilities, either. Incidently, > math gurus will tell you that you cannot prove either a possitive > or negative hypothsis by citing examples because all it takes is > ONE except to either prove or disprove the thesis. > > For people who're running flush with the belief that they are > invulnerable are the ones most often the most P.O.'d when the > thing dies. It is said that the time most people decide to backup > their data is the day AFTER their HD crashes. A little late. > > So, we both do what we think is best for us, right? Have a great > evening! > >> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message >> news:Xns998E839C78A9BReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... >>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du >>> jour ... >>> >>>> I never automatically update anything. But when I do a >>>> manual update I carefully read what it applies to and then >>>> do it. Never had a problem. NVIDIA video driver is a classic >>>> example. I will say, there are some I refuse to download and >>>> install. >>> >>> Me, too, Unknown. I am just ready to restart after installing >>> the 2nd half of the August 14 updates. I lurk and wait, saw a >>> couple of problems reported but no one else moaned, so I >>> decided it was safe. And, yes, I DID set my own RP. >>> >>>> "Bogey Man" <spam@kwic.com> wrote in message >>>> news:O3PF$qA4HHA.5740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message >>>>> news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net... >>>>>> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only >>>>>> provides you with security updates. Never gives you an >>>>>> update for a driver for example. I do my updates manually >>>>>> and on at least two occasions stopped a download that >>>>>> should NOT have been presented. >>>>> >>>>> I would never let MS update automatically update any driver >>>>> for hardware. Get the updates from the manufacturer of the >>>>> equipment. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> HP, aka Jerry >> >> >> > > > > -- > HP, aka Jerry
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour .... > As I said, I do manual updates. After I clicked on Windows > Update and selected 'custom' there were 16 security updates OK, !16 meant 16, ! was a shifted 1. But, I still don't understand your comments. I successfully have installed all but a handful of MS critical updates. Those did not fail, I chose not to install them EVER because whilst lurking in these several NGs, I discovered other people complaining about problems I thought might affect me. So, I have been fortunate not to have had a catastrophic failure of any sort, but I feel it is more because of my dilligence in verifying what I am doing than in blind luck. Have a great day! > available to download and install. > "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message > news:Xns998EAD547FBC5ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... >> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du >> jour ... >> >>> !6 updates! I haven't had a single problem as yet. >> >> 6 updates of what, Unknown? Windows versions, SPs, what? I >> don't know my number but it doesn't really matter as I am >> conservative enough that I make damn well sure whatever it is >> has been thoroughly tested by end-users, where NGs like this >> one are so valuable in lurk mode. >> >> That said, the basic Murphy's Law says that just because >> you've had 6 or 600 successes doesn't mean that the next one >> isn't some heinous disaster. Therefore, I do not give Murphy >> an even break ever and I don't trust to the probabilities, >> either. Incidently, math gurus will tell you that you cannot >> prove either a possitive or negative hypothsis by citing >> examples because all it takes is ONE except to either prove >> or disprove the thesis. >> >> For people who're running flush with the belief that they are >> invulnerable are the ones most often the most P.O.'d when the >> thing dies. It is said that the time most people decide to >> backup their data is the day AFTER their HD crashes. A little >> late. >> >> So, we both do what we think is best for us, right? Have a >> great evening! >> >>> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message >>> news:Xns998E839C78A9BReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... >>>> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du >>>> jour ... >>>> >>>>> I never automatically update anything. But when I do a >>>>> manual update I carefully read what it applies to and then >>>>> do it. Never had a problem. NVIDIA video driver is a >>>>> classic example. I will say, there are some I refuse to >>>>> download and install. >>>> >>>> Me, too, Unknown. I am just ready to restart after >>>> installing the 2nd half of the August 14 updates. I lurk >>>> and wait, saw a couple of problems reported but no one else >>>> moaned, so I decided it was safe. And, yes, I DID set my >>>> own RP. >>>> >>>>> "Bogey Man" <spam@kwic.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:O3PF$qA4HHA.5740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>>> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message >>>>>> news:VKEwi.789$Oo.710@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net... >>>>>>> One of the bad features of autoupdate is that it only >>>>>>> provides you with security updates. Never gives you an >>>>>>> update for a driver for example. I do my updates >>>>>>> manually and on at least two occasions stopped a >>>>>>> download that should NOT have been presented. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would never let MS update automatically update any >>>>>> driver for hardware. Get the updates from the >>>>>> manufacturer of the equipment. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> HP, aka Jerry >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> HP, aka Jerry > > > -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest Gerry Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? If you need to continues these off topic dialogues for ever and a day how about snipping! Also do these posts need to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support. Surely one group is sufficient. -- Hope this helps. Gerry ~~~~ FCA Stourport, England Enquire, plan and execute ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HEMI-Powered wrote: > Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour > ... > >> As I said, I do manual updates. After I clicked on Windows >> Update and selected 'custom' there were 16 security updates > > OK, !16 meant 16, ! was a shifted 1. But, I still don't > understand your comments. I successfully have installed all but a > handful of MS critical updates. Those did not fail, I chose not > to install them EVER because whilst lurking in these several NGs, > I discovered other people complaining about problems I thought > might affect me. So, I have been fortunate not to have had a > catastrophic failure of any sort, but I feel it is more because > of my dilligence in verifying what I am doing than in blind luck. > > Have a great day! >
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Gerry added these comments in the current discussion du jour ... > If you need to continues these off topic dialogues for ever > and a day how about snipping! Also do these posts need to > microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.ge > neral,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support. Surely one > group is sufficient. > Gerry, if you have been following my comments, then you know that I DO snip the useless prior quotes as well as interleave post so that people can connect what I'm replying to. I'm sorry if you think I'm doing it wrong, but I seldom top post (I did do a couple recently) and I seldom repeat all the previous testimony. Now, what specifically are you alleging I am posting that is OT? NOt all of what I've said, or what anyone says, is exactly on- topic for the actual subject of the OP's thread, but that is the way that threads evolve. There is no general MS NG for OT-style posts but if we roll with the punches a little when people drift, it makes life more pleasant, and any OT-ness can be quickly ascertained and you just stop reading. One more comment. It has been said before that sometimes people are so ignorant of a problem they can't even ask an intelligent question. So, if I chime into a thread with a personal observations and somebody gives me a heads up that I'm missing the boat, I take heed. I suspect your issue in this thread is that there has been a LOT of discussion from many people about the nature of the software biz, that may the source of your angst. Don't you ever recant stories from your youth in support of why you're experienced enough to do what you do today? And, please feel free to exercise your rights to ignore or plonk me if you think I am single-handed monopolizing so many of your fav NGs. -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest Gerry Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? What does this dialogue have to do with SP3? Why does it require posting to three newsgroups? -- Hope this helps. Gerry ~~~~ FCA Stourport, England Enquire, plan and execute ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HEMI-Powered wrote: > Gerry added these comments in the current discussion du jour ... > >> If you need to continues these off topic dialogues for ever >> and a day how about snipping! Also do these posts need to >> microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.ge >> neral,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support. Surely one >> group is sufficient. >> > Gerry, if you have been following my comments, then you know that > I DO snip the useless prior quotes as well as interleave post so > that people can connect what I'm replying to. I'm sorry if you > think I'm doing it wrong, but I seldom top post (I did do a > couple recently) and I seldom repeat all the previous testimony. > > Now, what specifically are you alleging I am posting that is OT? > NOt all of what I've said, or what anyone says, is exactly on- > topic for the actual subject of the OP's thread, but that is the > way that threads evolve. There is no general MS NG for OT-style > posts but if we roll with the punches a little when people drift, > it makes life more pleasant, and any OT-ness can be quickly > ascertained and you just stop reading. > > One more comment. It has been said before that sometimes people > are so ignorant of a problem they can't even ask an intelligent > question. So, if I chime into a thread with a personal > observations and somebody gives me a heads up that I'm missing > the boat, I take heed. > > I suspect your issue in this thread is that there has been a LOT > of discussion from many people about the nature of the software > biz, that may the source of your angst. Don't you ever recant > stories from your youth in support of why you're experienced > enough to do what you do today? And, please feel free to exercise > your rights to ignore or plonk me if you think I am single-handed > monopolizing so many of your fav NGs.
Guest Doug W. Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Why don't you post to ten more NGs? - <PLONK> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message news:Xns998F814047BD8ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... > Gerry added these comments in the current discussion du jour > ... > >> If you need to continues these off topic dialogues for ever >> and a day how about snipping! Also do these posts need to >> microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.ge >> neral,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support. Surely one >> group is sufficient. >> > Gerry, if you have been following my comments, then you know > that > I DO snip the useless prior quotes as well as interleave post > so > that people can connect what I'm replying to. I'm sorry if you > think I'm doing it wrong, but I seldom top post (I did do a > couple recently) and I seldom repeat all the previous > testimony. > > Now, what specifically are you alleging I am posting that is > OT? > NOt all of what I've said, or what anyone says, is exactly on- > topic for the actual subject of the OP's thread, but that is > the > way that threads evolve. There is no general MS NG for > OT-style > posts but if we roll with the punches a little when people > drift, > it makes life more pleasant, and any OT-ness can be quickly > ascertained and you just stop reading. > > One more comment. It has been said before that sometimes > people > are so ignorant of a problem they can't even ask an > intelligent > question. So, if I chime into a thread with a personal > observations and somebody gives me a heads up that I'm missing > the boat, I take heed. > > I suspect your issue in this thread is that there has been a > LOT > of discussion from many people about the nature of the > software > biz, that may the source of your angst. Don't you ever recant > stories from your youth in support of why you're experienced > enough to do what you do today? And, please feel free to > exercise > your rights to ignore or plonk me if you think I am > single-handed > monopolizing so many of your fav NGs. > > -- > HP, aka Jerry
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Gerry added these comments in the current discussion du jour ... > What does this dialogue have to do with SP3? > > Why does it require posting to three newsgroups? > I still do not understand where you're coming from, I don't understand why you don't just let it ride, and I don't understand what you are accusing me of? Being experienced, being foolish, defending MS, bashing MS, or what? And as for multiple NGs, people post similar things to all three, so what is so God Damn wrong with replying. Nobody has an Uzi to your head do they? Do everybody a favor, if you hate me that much, just PLONK! and you're relieved. Or, is the real reason you don't like what I've said about YOUR views? Either way, I am comfortable, I've not seen the usual flaming I get for being a contrarian, but what I HAVE seen is constructive comments, even praise - and that coming from people who don't even agree with me! Rant on, MacDuff. -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Doug W. added these comments in the current discussion du jour .... > Why don't you post to ten more NGs? > - > <PLONK> > > "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message > news:Xns998F814047BD8ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... >> Gerry added these comments in the current discussion du jour >> ... >> >>> If you need to continues these off topic dialogues for ever >>> and a day how about snipping! Also do these posts need to >>> microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp. >>> ge neral,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support. Surely >>> one group is sufficient. >>> >> Gerry, if you have been following my comments, then you know >> that I DO snip the useless prior quotes as well as interleave >> post so that people can connect what I'm replying to. I'm >> sorry if you think I'm doing it wrong, but I seldom top post >> (I did do a couple recently) and I seldom repeat all the >> previous testimony. I'll assume you plonked me and not my namesake, but either way, who cares? BTW, anybody take notice on the very positive exchanges with Ken Blake hereabouts? No, probably not. I have seen threads in this and ALL the MS NGs as well as 24hoursupport go on for hundreds of posts and weeks at a time, yet nobody seems to care. What makes this one so different? And what, pray tell, is the "problem" with making rational judgments about MS and subject of this thread, SP3? -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest Unknown Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? You've got more understanding than that to make that type of comment. Cool it. "Doug W." <stand@attention> wrote in message news:uKL1$MP4HHA.5852@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Why don't you post to ten more NGs? > - > <PLONK> > > "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message > news:Xns998F814047BD8ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... >> Gerry added these comments in the current discussion du jour ... >> >>> If you need to continues these off topic dialogues for ever >>> and a day how about snipping! Also do these posts need to >>> microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.ge >>> neral,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support. Surely one >>> group is sufficient. >>> >> Gerry, if you have been following my comments, then you know that >> I DO snip the useless prior quotes as well as interleave post so >> that people can connect what I'm replying to. I'm sorry if you >> think I'm doing it wrong, but I seldom top post (I did do a >> couple recently) and I seldom repeat all the previous testimony. >> >> Now, what specifically are you alleging I am posting that is OT? >> NOt all of what I've said, or what anyone says, is exactly on- >> topic for the actual subject of the OP's thread, but that is the >> way that threads evolve. There is no general MS NG for OT-style >> posts but if we roll with the punches a little when people drift, >> it makes life more pleasant, and any OT-ness can be quickly >> ascertained and you just stop reading. >> >> One more comment. It has been said before that sometimes people >> are so ignorant of a problem they can't even ask an intelligent >> question. So, if I chime into a thread with a personal >> observations and somebody gives me a heads up that I'm missing >> the boat, I take heed. >> >> I suspect your issue in this thread is that there has been a LOT >> of discussion from many people about the nature of the software >> biz, that may the source of your angst. Don't you ever recant >> stories from your youth in support of why you're experienced >> enough to do what you do today? And, please feel free to exercise >> your rights to ignore or plonk me if you think I am single-handed >> monopolizing so many of your fav NGs. >> >> -- >> HP, aka Jerry >
Guest Unknown Posted August 17, 2007 Posted August 17, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Are you such a perfectionist that you have to complain about friendly posts???? "Gerry" <gerry@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Onk1pJP4HHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > What does this dialogue have to do with SP3? > > Why does it require posting to three newsgroups? > > > -- > > > > Hope this helps. > > Gerry > ~~~~ > FCA > Stourport, England > Enquire, plan and execute > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > HEMI-Powered wrote: >> Gerry added these comments in the current discussion du jour ... >> >>> If you need to continues these off topic dialogues for ever >>> and a day how about snipping! Also do these posts need to >>> microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.ge >>> neral,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support. Surely one >>> group is sufficient. >>> >> Gerry, if you have been following my comments, then you know that >> I DO snip the useless prior quotes as well as interleave post so >> that people can connect what I'm replying to. I'm sorry if you >> think I'm doing it wrong, but I seldom top post (I did do a >> couple recently) and I seldom repeat all the previous testimony. >> >> Now, what specifically are you alleging I am posting that is OT? >> NOt all of what I've said, or what anyone says, is exactly on- >> topic for the actual subject of the OP's thread, but that is the >> way that threads evolve. There is no general MS NG for OT-style >> posts but if we roll with the punches a little when people drift, >> it makes life more pleasant, and any OT-ness can be quickly >> ascertained and you just stop reading. >> >> One more comment. It has been said before that sometimes people >> are so ignorant of a problem they can't even ask an intelligent >> question. So, if I chime into a thread with a personal >> observations and somebody gives me a heads up that I'm missing >> the boat, I take heed. >> >> I suspect your issue in this thread is that there has been a LOT >> of discussion from many people about the nature of the software >> biz, that may the source of your angst. Don't you ever recant >> stories from your youth in support of why you're experienced >> enough to do what you do today? And, please feel free to exercise >> your rights to ignore or plonk me if you think I am single-handed >> monopolizing so many of your fav NGs. > >
Guest db ´¯`·.. > Posted August 18, 2007 Posted August 18, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? there is no rule against cross posting, Hemi. http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales/help/help_en-us.htm: cross-post Adding a single post to more than one discussion group at the same time. Cross-posting is an advanced feature and should only be used if you really believe that more than one discussion group will be interested in your thread. btw: Ditto on your observations. Gerimandering the sub threads is the problem. -- db ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><)))x>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>¸. ><)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º> .. "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message news:Xns998F913E7B7F4ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... > Doug W. added these comments in the current discussion du jour > ... > >> Why don't you post to ten more NGs? >> - >> <PLONK> >> >> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message >> news:Xns998F814047BD8ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... >>> Gerry added these comments in the current discussion du jour >>> ... >>> >>>> If you need to continues these off topic dialogues for ever >>>> and a day how about snipping! Also do these posts need to >>>> microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp. >>>> ge neral,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support. Surely >>>> one group is sufficient. >>>> >>> Gerry, if you have been following my comments, then you know >>> that I DO snip the useless prior quotes as well as interleave >>> post so that people can connect what I'm replying to. I'm >>> sorry if you think I'm doing it wrong, but I seldom top post >>> (I did do a couple recently) and I seldom repeat all the >>> previous testimony. > > I'll assume you plonked me and not my namesake, but either way, who > cares? BTW, anybody take notice on the very positive exchanges with > Ken Blake hereabouts? No, probably not. I have seen threads in this > and ALL the MS NGs as well as 24hoursupport go on for hundreds of > posts and weeks at a time, yet nobody seems to care. What makes > this one so different? And what, pray tell, is the "problem" with > making rational judgments about MS and subject of this thread, SP3? > > -- > HP, aka Jerry
Guest h1247 Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? HEMI I enjoyed your post here but, there is one comment that I'd like to ask you about --- "the original PC that didn't even have DOS, that came in with the XT"--did you possibly mean to say CP/M, from the wonderful company that was called DIGITAL RESEARCH? The reason I ask is because, I still have that 1st edition XT, that you speak of, downstairs in my garage. And if I cleaned it up, plugged it in and "fired" it up, DOS would "magically" appear, and be available for me to give that PC instructions. My first "PC" was a VIC-20 and the next was that 4.77MHz IBM PC. And like you, I hung up my programmer hat around 1992, because it wasn't fun anymore to me. "HEMI-Powered" wrote: > Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour > .... > > > Wed at the hips----------???? Supposing you wrote the OS. How > > would you control it and/or keep your customers happy. Many > > companies write programs to run with XP (the OS) and when a > > problem occurs, MS is immediately blamed. Be objective. > > Let's just say that I've been around MS more than long enough, > all the way back to the original PC that didn't even have DOS, > that came in with the XT, to understand them pretty well. I don't > mean to be vindictively critical, but surely you will admit they > have less than a stellar record of their own releases, they have > a rep for hiding key parts of their various APIs even from those > who buy their development packages all the way back to the SDK, > reverse engineering of several versions of the major components > of MS Office have been found to contain fairly large percentages > of commands and API calls that seem not to be documented, and MS > like all commercial companies reserves the rights to control its > copyrighted software and give "guidance" to developers. > > I didn't say, BTW, that all problems are MS, I am not at all that > naive and not at all an anti-MS bigot to believe that. Rogue and > misbehaving applications, especially systems utilities of all > kinds, are rampant throughout the 25 years since the first PC, > they suffer from their own bugs, side-effects bugs, and the rush > to bring new versions to market no matter what. This super > competitiveness all the way around makes for not only strange > bedfellows but interlocking dependencies that can make full > diagnosis of major or even minor systems issue deceptively > difficult. > > I hung up my programmer clothes circa 1995 or so, thus I am more > than a little out-of-date for direct knowledge of whence I speak, > but in monitoring this and many other NGs, I see no real signs of > improvement, if anything, I think the situation is deteriorating. > I'm sorry if you feel I am not being objective, let's just say > that I am a pragmatist and always suspicious of extravagent > claims from ANY developer on either side of problems. Thanks for > listening. > > > "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.sn> wrote in message > > news:Xns998C98FC72C16ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30... > >> Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du > >> jour ... > >> > >>> Look closely at all the postings in this group. You'll be > >>> amazed that most problems are not caused by MS but by Non MS > >>> programs, reg cleaners, and virus detect/scan protection? > >>> programs. > >> > >> That may well be true, but the major developers are wed at > >> the hips body and soul to the God of Microsoft because they > >> must play ball or risk losing their certification. But, it is > >> certainly true that reg cleaners in the hands of the novices > >> will wreck an otherwise good system and are more harm than > >> good most of the time. > >> > >> -- > >> HP, aka Jerry > > > > > > > > > > -- > HP, aka Jerry >
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? =?Utf-8?B?aDEyNDc=?= added these comments in the current discussion du jour ... > HEMI I enjoyed your post here but, there is one comment that > I'd like to ask you about --- "the original PC that didn't > even have DOS, that came in with the XT"--did you possibly > mean to say CP/M, from the wonderful company that was called > DIGITAL RESEARCH? The reason I ask is because, I still have > that 1st edition XT, that you speak of, downstairs in my > garage. And if I cleaned it up, plugged it in and "fired" it > up, DOS would "magically" appear, and be available for me to > give that PC instructions. My first "PC" was a VIC-20 and the > next was that 4.77MHz IBM PC. And like you, I hung up my > programmer hat around 1992, because it wasn't fun anymore to > me. The very, very first IBM PC came with just two floppy drives and pretty much nothing else. DOS hadn't been invented yet. The only software that was available had been written in assembly language using only the BIOS for I/O. CP/M WAS an option, but in my company, we actually waited a bit until IBM announced the XT with DOS 1.0 and a 10 MB (!) HD. I ran through 3 different Apple computers, the original ][, a later //e, and a //c compact for my daughter. My first real PC was what was then called a clone and had DOS 4.0 on it. Later, I tried Windows 3.0 that say on top of DOS but to say it was unstable was an understatement. Win 3.1 wasn't bad, then I went to 95, passed up ME and 2000, and built new ones with XP. First, just XP, then SP1. And, my current PC used an SP1 installed CD with SP2 on a CD I'd ordered from MS. BTW, I'll tell you how primative Apple's were in late 1978: they didn't even have a floppy, as that takes some sort of O/S. So, for almost a year, I saved my BASIC programs to audio cassette tapes! We've come a long way, baby! -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. . added these comments in the current discussion du jour ... > there is no rule against > cross posting, Hemi. > > http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales/help/help_en-us.htm: > cross-post Adding a single post to more than one discussion > group at the same time. Cross-posting is an advanced feature > and should only be used if you really believe that more than > one discussion group will be interested in your thread. > > > btw: > > Ditto on your observations. > > Gerimandering the sub threads > is the problem. I do NOT crosspost myself, EVER. But, if I was replying to someone who had, that would explain why MY replies appeared multiple places. -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest Bob I Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? HEMI-Powered wrote: > =?Utf-8?B?aDEyNDc=?= added these comments in the current > discussion du jour ... > > >>HEMI I enjoyed your post here but, there is one comment that >>I'd like to ask you about --- "the original PC that didn't >>even have DOS, that came in with the XT"--did you possibly >>mean to say CP/M, from the wonderful company that was called >>DIGITAL RESEARCH? The reason I ask is because, I still have >>that 1st edition XT, that you speak of, downstairs in my >>garage. And if I cleaned it up, plugged it in and "fired" it >>up, DOS would "magically" appear, and be available for me to >>give that PC instructions. My first "PC" was a VIC-20 and the >>next was that 4.77MHz IBM PC. And like you, I hung up my >>programmer hat around 1992, because it wasn't fun anymore to >>me. > > > The very, very first IBM PC came with just two floppy drives and > pretty much nothing else. DOS hadn't been invented yet. The only > software that was available had been written in assembly language > using only the BIOS for I/O. CP/M WAS an option, but in my > company, we actually waited a bit until IBM announced the XT with > DOS 1.0 and a 10 MB (!) HD. > > I ran through 3 different Apple computers, the original ][, a > later //e, and a //c compact for my daughter. My first real PC > was what was then called a clone and had DOS 4.0 on it. Later, I > tried Windows 3.0 that say on top of DOS but to say it was > unstable was an understatement. Win 3.1 wasn't bad, then I went > to 95, passed up ME and 2000, and built new ones with XP. First, > just XP, then SP1. And, my current PC used an SP1 installed CD > with SP2 on a CD I'd ordered from MS. > > BTW, I'll tell you how primative Apple's were in late 1978: they > didn't even have a floppy, as that takes some sort of O/S. So, > for almost a year, I saved my BASIC programs to audio cassette > tapes! We've come a long way, baby! > I thinks XT came with PC-DOS 2.0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-DOS
Guest Unknown Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Didn't it come with MS-DOS??? "Bob I" <birelan@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:eZOw3n14HHA.556@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > > > HEMI-Powered wrote: > >> =?Utf-8?B?aDEyNDc=?= added these comments in the current >> discussion du jour ... >>>HEMI I enjoyed your post here but, there is one comment that >>>I'd like to ask you about --- "the original PC that didn't >>>even have DOS, that came in with the XT"--did you possibly >>>mean to say CP/M, from the wonderful company that was called >>>DIGITAL RESEARCH? The reason I ask is because, I still have >>>that 1st edition XT, that you speak of, downstairs in my >>>garage. And if I cleaned it up, plugged it in and "fired" it >>>up, DOS would "magically" appear, and be available for me to >>>give that PC instructions. My first "PC" was a VIC-20 and the >>>next was that 4.77MHz IBM PC. And like you, I hung up my >>>programmer hat around 1992, because it wasn't fun anymore to >>>me. >> >> >> The very, very first IBM PC came with just two floppy drives and pretty >> much nothing else. DOS hadn't been invented yet. The only software that >> was available had been written in assembly language using only the BIOS >> for I/O. CP/M WAS an option, but in my company, we actually waited a bit >> until IBM announced the XT with DOS 1.0 and a 10 MB (!) HD. >> >> I ran through 3 different Apple computers, the original ][, a later //e, >> and a //c compact for my daughter. My first real PC was what was then >> called a clone and had DOS 4.0 on it. Later, I tried Windows 3.0 that say >> on top of DOS but to say it was unstable was an understatement. Win 3.1 >> wasn't bad, then I went to 95, passed up ME and 2000, and built new ones >> with XP. First, just XP, then SP1. And, my current PC used an SP1 >> installed CD with SP2 on a CD I'd ordered from MS. >> >> BTW, I'll tell you how primative Apple's were in late 1978: they didn't >> even have a floppy, as that takes some sort of O/S. So, for almost a >> year, I saved my BASIC programs to audio cassette tapes! We've come a >> long way, baby! >> > > I thinks XT came with PC-DOS 2.0 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-DOS >
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Bob I added these comments in the current discussion du jour ... > I thinks XT came with PC-DOS 2.0 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-DOS That was circa 1982, a long time ago for my feeble brain, so maybe you're right. I would comment, gently, that I don't believe most of what wikipedia says in general because of their very loose rules for editorial review of the correctness of submitted articles. You could very well be right, that DOS 1.0 may have even come with the floppy-only version. However, that wasn't my point. The gist of the way this thread has gone OT is into nostalgic rememberences of times gone by in an ON-topic way to explain why even when the O/S was extremely simple and small by today's standards, there were bugs, and there's been bugs ever since. And, anyone who thinks that ANY software will EVER be "bug free" (whatever that even means) is a naive fool or simply has no previous experience. -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest HEMI-Powered Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? Unknown added these comments in the current discussion du jour .... > Didn't it come with MS-DOS??? NO! Bill Gates showed himself even as a very young man to be a very astute businessman. He wrote a license agreement some 150 pages long for the IBM guys in Florida secretly developing the PC to study and sign. Buried in it was that he maintained the rights to sell it himself as MS-DOS. What IBM brand PCs had was a minor variation that was called PC-DOS. And then, of course, is the story of how Gates managed to con the kernel of what because his DOS from a developer of an earlier O/S that was competing with CP/M. He bought the exclusive rights for just $50,000. Without that, he'd have not been able to meet IBM's deadline that he'd already signed up for to provide an O/S to them. -- HP, aka Jerry
Guest Bob I Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Re: XP SP3 Details? HEMI-Powered wrote: > Bob I added these comments in the current discussion du jour ... > > >>I thinks XT came with PC-DOS 2.0 >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-DOS > > > That was circa 1982, a long time ago for my feeble brain, so maybe > you're right. I would comment, gently, that I don't believe most of > what wikipedia says in general because of their very loose rules > for editorial review of the correctness of submitted articles. You > could very well be right, that DOS 1.0 may have even come with the > floppy-only version. However, that wasn't my point. > > The gist of the way this thread has gone OT is into nostalgic > rememberences of times gone by in an ON-topic way to explain why > even when the O/S was extremely simple and small by today's > standards, there were bugs, and there's been bugs ever since. And, > anyone who thinks that ANY software will EVER be "bug free" > (whatever that even means) is a naive fool or simply has no > previous experience. > Not a problem in my book. We are all getting old ;-), but it beats the alternative! As for OT, the original question was OT two of the 3 groups, and even for general it was a stretch! So we have a nice dicsussion about operating systems and reality. No biggie.
Recommended Posts