Guest sandy j Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told i couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to purchase and install a new os system. can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. what's the difference? thanks -- sandy j
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro sandy j wrote: > i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told > i couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to > purchase and install a new os system. > can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. > what's the difference? If you plan on keeping the Windows XP beyond this computer - buy retail. If you plan to give the license of Windows XP with the computer - you can get OEM. Beyond the licensing, support, etc - there is no TECHNICAL difference between an OEM and retail version. Well - one... An OEM version cannot perform an upgrade installation - only clean installs. A retail version can perform clean or upgrade installations. -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest sandy j Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Thanks so much for your speedy response. I hope you don't mind me asking a related question. If I purchase and install the oem cd, will I be able to download the updates XP Pro? -- sandy j "Shenan Stanley" wrote: > sandy j wrote: > > i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told > > i couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to > > purchase and install a new os system. > > can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. > > what's the difference? > > If you plan on keeping the Windows XP beyond this computer - buy retail. > If you plan to give the license of Windows XP with the computer - you can > get OEM. > > Beyond the licensing, support, etc - there is no TECHNICAL difference > between an OEM and retail version. > > Well - one... > An OEM version cannot perform an upgrade installation - only clean installs. > A retail version can perform clean or upgrade installations. > > -- > Shenan Stanley > MS-MVP > -- > How To Ask Questions The Smart Way > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html > > >
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro sandy j wrote: > i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told > i couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to > purchase and install a new os system. > can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. > what's the difference? Shenan Stanley wrote: > If you plan on keeping the Windows XP beyond this computer - buy > retail. > If you plan to give the license of Windows XP with the computer - > you can get OEM. > > Beyond the licensing, support, etc - there is no TECHNICAL > difference between an OEM and retail version. > > Well - one... > An OEM version cannot perform an upgrade installation - only clean > installs. A retail version can perform clean or upgrade > installations. sandy j wrote: > Thanks so much for your speedy response. I hope you don't mind me > asking a related question. If I purchase and install the oem cd, > will I be able to download the updates XP Pro? As I said - there is no real technical difference. If you get a legitimate OEM copy/license of Windows XP - then you will have no issues getting updates. The support I speak of is if you need assistance with Windows XP beyond updates. The people who sold it to you and the person who installed it are your support line - Microsoft does not directly support OEM versions in the same way they support retail versions. That's one of the reasons for the lesser price - with the fact you cannot transfer it being another biggie. -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest Alias Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro sandy j wrote: > i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told i couldn't > download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to purchase and install a new > os system. > can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. what's the > difference? > > thanks XP Pro OEM can only be bought if you buy a CPU, hard drive, motherboard and RAM at the same time. This is the new price gouge from Microsoft to go along with the flawed and ineffective "anti piracy" program. -- Alias To email me, remove shoes
Guest Ken Blake, MVP Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:56:02 -0700, sandy j <sandyj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: > i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told i couldn't > download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to purchase and install a new > os system. > can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. what's the > difference? The OEM version can only legally be sold with hardware, although these days, any piece of hardware, even a power cord, qualifies. Although if you get a complete generic OEM version, it contains the same software, it has the following disadvantages as compared with the retail version: 1. Its license ties it permanently to the first computer it's installed on. It can never legally be moved to another computer, sold, or given away. 2. It can only do a clean installation, not an upgrade. 3. Microsoft provides no support for OEM versions. You can't call them with a problem, but instead have to get any needed support from your OEM; that support may range anywhere between good and non-existent. Or you can get support elsewhere, such as in these newsgroups. It's that first restriction that makes it a bad deal. I recommend the Retail Upgrade version instead. It usually costs the same, or only slightly more than an OEM copy. And contrary to what many people think, the Upgrade version *can* do a clean installation, as long as you have a CD of a previous qualifying version to show it when prompted as proof of ownership. Most people have such a CD, but worst case, if you don't, you can buy a used copy of Windows 98 very inexpensively. -- Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Guest sandy j Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Thank you for your help. -- sandy j "Shenan Stanley" wrote: > sandy j wrote: > > i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told > > i couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to > > purchase and install a new os system. > > can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. > > what's the difference? > > Shenan Stanley wrote: > > If you plan on keeping the Windows XP beyond this computer - buy > > retail. > > If you plan to give the license of Windows XP with the computer - > > you can get OEM. > > > > Beyond the licensing, support, etc - there is no TECHNICAL > > difference between an OEM and retail version. > > > > Well - one... > > An OEM version cannot perform an upgrade installation - only clean > > installs. A retail version can perform clean or upgrade > > installations. > > sandy j wrote: > > Thanks so much for your speedy response. I hope you don't mind me > > asking a related question. If I purchase and install the oem cd, > > will I be able to download the updates XP Pro? > > As I said - there is no real technical difference. > > If you get a legitimate OEM copy/license of Windows XP - then you will have > no issues getting updates. The support I speak of is if you need assistance > with Windows XP beyond updates. The people who sold it to you and the > person who installed it are your support line - Microsoft does not directly > support OEM versions in the same way they support retail versions. That's > one of the reasons for the lesser price - with the fact you cannot transfer > it being another biggie. > > -- > Shenan Stanley > MS-MVP > -- > How To Ask Questions The Smart Way > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html > > >
Guest Alias Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Shenan Stanley wrote: > sandy j wrote: >> i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told >> i couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to >> purchase and install a new os system. >> can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. >> what's the difference? > > Shenan Stanley wrote: >> If you plan on keeping the Windows XP beyond this computer - buy >> retail. >> If you plan to give the license of Windows XP with the computer - >> you can get OEM. >> >> Beyond the licensing, support, etc - there is no TECHNICAL >> difference between an OEM and retail version. >> >> Well - one... >> An OEM version cannot perform an upgrade installation - only clean >> installs. A retail version can perform clean or upgrade >> installations. > > sandy j wrote: >> Thanks so much for your speedy response. I hope you don't mind me >> asking a related question. If I purchase and install the oem cd, >> will I be able to download the updates XP Pro? > > As I said - there is no real technical difference. > > If you get a legitimate OEM copy/license of Windows XP - then you will have > no issues getting updates. The support I speak of is if you need assistance > with Windows XP beyond updates. The people who sold it to you and the > person who installed it are your support line - Microsoft does not directly > support OEM versions in the same way they support retail versions. That's > one of the reasons for the lesser price - with the fact you cannot transfer > it being another biggie. > Having to buy a CPU, mother board, hard drive and RAM is a biggie too. From http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 "Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office 2003 that you purchased." -- Alias To email me, remove shoes
Guest Alias Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Ken Blake, MVP wrote: > On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:56:02 -0700, sandy j > <sandyj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: > >> i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told i couldn't >> download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to purchase and install a new >> os system. >> can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. what's the >> difference? > > > The OEM version can only legally be sold with hardware, although these > days, any piece of hardware, even a power cord, qualifies. No, that was a "nowadays" of last year. Now you have to buy, or have "recently" bought, a CPU, mother board, hard drive and RAM. See: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 and click on "specifications" and read the Disclaimer. -- Alias To email me, remove shoes
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Alias wrote: > Having to buy a CPU, mother board, hard drive and RAM is a biggie > too. > From http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 > > "Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the > purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The > components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one > receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office > 2003 that you purchased." That is their *disclaimer*... I don't think (or at least I have not heard of) them (newegg) requiring you to show *them* this qualifying material. -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest Alias Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Shenan Stanley wrote: > Alias wrote: >> Having to buy a CPU, mother board, hard drive and RAM is a biggie >> too. >> From http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 >> >> "Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the >> purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The >> components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one >> receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office >> 2003 that you purchased." > > That is their *disclaimer*... > I don't think (or at least I have not heard of) them (newegg) requiring you > to show *them* this qualifying material. > I doubt you can buy it from anyone without this proof. In Spain, you have to buy an entire computer to buy an OEM copy of XP or Vista. Being as you're in the States, why don't you call New Egg and ask them to clarify? Their toll free number is (800) 390-1119. MS, through this crap and the WPA/WGA program, is trying to milk the OS/Office cow for all it's worth which is why I've gone Open Source. MS has already gotten enough of my money. -- Alias To email me, remove shoes
Guest Peter Foldes Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro All you need to buy is a mouse here in Can . That is enough to purchase a OEM of XP -- Peter Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged. "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com.> wrote in message news:e7uk6up3HHA.400@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Shenan Stanley wrote: >> Alias wrote: >>> Having to buy a CPU, mother board, hard drive and RAM is a biggie >>> too. >>> From http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 >>> >>> "Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the >>> purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The >>> components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one >>> receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office >>> 2003 that you purchased." >> >> That is their *disclaimer*... >> I don't think (or at least I have not heard of) them (newegg) requiring you >> to show *them* this qualifying material. >> > > I doubt you can buy it from anyone without this proof. In Spain, you > have to buy an entire computer to buy an OEM copy of XP or Vista. Being > as you're in the States, why don't you call New Egg and ask them to > clarify? Their toll free number is (800) 390-1119. MS, through this crap > and the WPA/WGA program, is trying to milk the OS/Office cow for all > it's worth which is why I've gone Open Source. MS has already gotten > enough of my money. > > -- > Alias > To email me, remove shoes
Guest Alias Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Peter Foldes wrote: > All you need to buy is a mouse here in Can . That is enough to purchase a OEM of XP > When was the last time you checked? This is a new policy as far as I can see. -- Alias To email me, remove shoes
Guest Dave B. Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Curious, the same requirements haven't been placed on Vista that I can see, seems there's madness in their method. MS is going to get everyone on Vista one way or another. -- ---- Crosspost, do not multipost http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm How to ask a question http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 How to Post http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com.> wrote in message news:uM0yljp3HHA.5724@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Ken Blake, MVP wrote: >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:56:02 -0700, sandy j >> <sandyj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: >> >>> i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told i >>> couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to purchase and >>> install a new os system. >>> can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. what's >>> the difference? >> >> >> The OEM version can only legally be sold with hardware, although these >> days, any piece of hardware, even a power cord, qualifies. > > No, that was a "nowadays" of last year. Now you have to buy, or have > "recently" bought, a CPU, mother board, hard drive and RAM. > > See: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 and > click on "specifications" and read the Disclaimer. > > -- > Alias > To email me, remove shoes
Guest Daave Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Alias wrote: > sandy j wrote: >> i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told i >> couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to purchase >> and install a new os system. >> can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. >> what's the difference? >> >> thanks > > XP Pro OEM can only be bought if you buy a CPU, hard drive, > motherboard and RAM at the same time. This is the new price > gouge from Microsoft to go along with the flawed and ineffective > "anti piracy" program. Other than the newegg link you provided in another post, do you have any other evidence this is so? Especially from Microsoft's Web site?
Guest Daave Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Alias wrote: > Ken Blake, MVP wrote: >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:56:02 -0700, sandy j >> <sandyj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: >> >>> i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told >>> i couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to >>> purchase and install a new os system. >>> can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. >>> what's the difference? >> >> >> The OEM version can only legally be sold with hardware, although >> these days, any piece of hardware, even a power cord, qualifies. > > No, that was a "nowadays" of last year. Now you have to buy, or have > "recently" bought, a CPU, mother board, hard drive and RAM. > > See: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 > and click on "specifications" and read the Disclaimer. <quote> Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office 2003 that you purchased. </quote> You don't *have to* do these things; you could always purchase the disc elsewhere. This doesn't seem to be a Microsoft edict. Rather, (AFAIK) this is only coming from newegg. Maybe they're just trying to get more people to purchase more hardware, preferably from them. If this is sp, I wonder if this strategy may backfire. Now, if this policy *is* coming from Microsoft, I would like to see something official from them.
Guest Alias Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Daave wrote: > Alias wrote: >> sandy j wrote: >>> i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told i >>> couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to purchase >>> and install a new os system. >>> can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. >>> what's the difference? >>> >>> thanks >> XP Pro OEM can only be bought if you buy a CPU, hard drive, >> motherboard and RAM at the same time. This is the new price >> gouge from Microsoft to go along with the flawed and ineffective >> "anti piracy" program. > > Other than the newegg link you provided in another post, do you have any > other evidence this is so? Especially from Microsoft's Web site? > > > How about having personally visited three different computer chains and having the franchise owner tell me they was told by MS that these are the new rules? If you can read Spanish, I can give you the URLS. -- Alias To email me, remove shoes
Guest Ghostrider Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Daave wrote: > Alias wrote: > >>Ken Blake, MVP wrote: >> >>>On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:56:02 -0700, sandy j >>><sandyj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told >>>>i couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to >>>>purchase and install a new os system. >>>>can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. >>>>what's the difference? >>> >>> >>>The OEM version can only legally be sold with hardware, although >>>these days, any piece of hardware, even a power cord, qualifies. >> >>No, that was a "nowadays" of last year. Now you have to buy, or have >>"recently" bought, a CPU, mother board, hard drive and RAM. >> >>See: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 >>and click on "specifications" and read the Disclaimer. > > > > <quote> > Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the > purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The components > can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one receipt nor on > the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office 2003 that you > purchased. > </quote> > > You don't *have to* do these things; you could always purchase the disc > elsewhere. > > This doesn't seem to be a Microsoft edict. Rather, (AFAIK) this is only > coming from newegg. Maybe they're just trying to get more people to > purchase more hardware, preferably from them. If this is sp, I wonder if > this strategy may backfire. > > Now, if this policy *is* coming from Microsoft, I would like to see > something official from them. > > I believe the language has changed, although subtly, due to the Microsoft System Builder Pack packaging, or the only way a distributor can release OEM versions of Microsoft applications. For the current FY07, Item No. 1 is pretty straight-forward in specifying a CPU, motherboard, hard drive, power supply and case, in the example below: http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2007_SB_Licenses/FY07_SB_License_English.pdf The differentiation between assembled and unassembled units also seems to be gone.
Guest Daave Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Ghostrider wrote: > Daave wrote: >> Alias wrote: >> >>> Ken Blake, MVP wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:56:02 -0700, sandy j >>>> <sandyj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> i received a pc build by a friend. after i received it i was told >>>>> i couldn't download any updates, so i'm pretty sure i need to >>>>> purchase and install a new os system. >>>>> can i purchase an oem cd or do i have to purchase the full os. >>>>> what's the difference? >>>> >>>> >>>> The OEM version can only legally be sold with hardware, although >>>> these days, any piece of hardware, even a power cord, qualifies. >>> >>> No, that was a "nowadays" of last year. Now you have to buy, or have >>> "recently" bought, a CPU, mother board, hard drive and RAM. >>> >>> See: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 >>> and click on "specifications" and read the Disclaimer. >> >> >> >> <quote> >> Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the >> purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The >> components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one >> receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office >> 2003 that you purchased. >> </quote> >> >> You don't *have to* do these things; you could always purchase the >> disc elsewhere. >> >> This doesn't seem to be a Microsoft edict. Rather, (AFAIK) this is >> only coming from newegg. Maybe they're just trying to get more >> people to purchase more hardware, preferably from them. If this is so, >> I wonder if this strategy may backfire. >> >> Now, if this policy *is* coming from Microsoft, I would like to see >> something official from them. >> >> > > I believe the language has changed, although subtly, due to the > Microsoft System Builder Pack packaging, or the only way a > distributor can release OEM versions of Microsoft applications. > For the current FY07, Item No. 1 is pretty straight-forward in > specifying a CPU, motherboard, hard drive, power supply and > case, in the example below: > > http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2007_SB_Licenses/FY07_SB_License_English.pdf > > The differentiation between assembled and unassembled units also > seems to be gone. Thanks for posting that. I guess that explains the language on the newegg.com site and Alias's experiences. But I find it curious that this language is only for the Microsoft OEM system builder license. I don't believe it covers whether or not an ordinary individual can purchase an OEM disc/license without accompanying hardware (specifically, a CPU, motherboard, hard drive, power supply and case!). If Microsoft were to directly address *this* issue (and I don't believe they have), it would certainly clear up the confusion. Or does Microsoft consider the "ordinary person" in this situation a system builder? If this is so, is there any language on the disc/license that spells this out? Again, if Microsoft wants to tie the sale (resale, I suppose) of an OEM disc/license to the purchase of the specific hardware mentioned above, it really should spell it out in *that particular* license (and also on the packaging) -- and not just the license for the Microsoft System Builder Pack.
Guest Peter Foldes Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Last week when I went and got a OEM Win XP Pro for a replacement for a client. Mouse cost was $7.99 (cheapo) -- Peter Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged. "Alias" <iamalias@shoesgmail.com.> wrote in message news:%23Mt23Eq3HHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Peter Foldes wrote: >> All you need to buy is a mouse here in Can . That is enough to purchase a OEM of XP >> > > When was the last time you checked? This is a new policy as far as I can > see. > > -- > Alias > To email me, remove shoes
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro <snip> We all know the rules - and it is not actually a recent change in the EULA... http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2005/09/07/461950.aspx and linked from there and as descriptive (and more recent): http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2007/02/18/oem-microsoft-software-clarifications-plus-if-it-s-labeled-oem-you-should-stay-away-from-that-neil-macbride-of-the-bsa-business-software-alliance-about-buying-software-online.aspx In the last one - read the comment under: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:35 AM by TechSoEasy -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest Daave Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Daave wrote: > Ghostrider wrote: >> I believe the language has changed, although subtly, due to the >> Microsoft System Builder Pack packaging, or the only way a >> distributor can release OEM versions of Microsoft applications. >> For the current FY07, Item No. 1 is pretty straight-forward in >> specifying a CPU, motherboard, hard drive, power supply and >> case, in the example below: >> >> > http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2007_SB_Licenses/FY07_SB_License_English.pdf >> >> The differentiation between assembled and unassembled units also >> seems to be gone. > > Thanks for posting that. > > I guess that explains the language on the newegg.com site and Alias's > experiences. > > But I find it curious that this language is only for the Microsoft OEM > system builder license. I don't believe it covers whether or not an > ordinary individual can purchase an OEM disc/license without > accompanying hardware (specifically, a CPU, motherboard, hard drive, > power supply and case!). > > If Microsoft were to directly address *this* issue (and I don't > believe they have), it would certainly clear up the confusion. > > Or does Microsoft consider the "ordinary person" in this situation a > system builder? If this is so, is there any language on the > disc/license that spells this out? > > Again, if Microsoft wants to tie the sale (resale, I suppose) of an > OEM disc/license to the purchase of the specific hardware mentioned > above, it really should spell it out in *that particular* license (and also > on the packaging) -- and not just the license for the Microsoft System > Builder Pack. Upon conducting further research, I am now more confused than ever! I can see how this whole silly non-peripheral thing came about. First, from http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000763.html : As part of its System Builder program, Microsoft produced this official Product Guide for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 (http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/mosb_productguide/osystem/SB_WinXPMC E.htm ) : > System Builders must distribute each desktop operating > system unit with either a fully assembled computer system > or a nonperipheral computer hardware component. Non-peripheral hardware? What's that? Conveniently, Microsoft has put together a Web page that defines the term (http://oem.microsoft.com/script/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=552858 ) : > What is Non-peripheral Hardware? > A non-peripheral hardware component is one essential to > running a PC > > Examples of non-peripheral hardware: > Memory > Internal drives > Mice > Keyboards > Power supplies/cords > > Examples of components not considered essential are: > Scanners > Printers > Cameras > External modems > Networking device In other words, you can legally buy a copy of Windows XP Media Center Edition (or any OEM edition of Windows XP for that matter) from any authorized reseller as long as you buy it with a power cord. Or a mouse. Or a keyboard. OK? That's the legal, official answer. (Note that this is not true of OEM copies of application software, like Office, or server software, like Microsoft Exchange. Those can only be sold with a fully assembled computer system.) ---------------------------------------------------------- So, to make it an officially sanctioned purchase, buy a power cord (but not a mouse) along with the OEM disc. Then apparently, things changed in 2005: From http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=975 : For the past few years, OEM copies of Windows and Office have been sold under licensing terms that are just plain silly. Yes, you could buy an OEM copy of either product, at a substantial savings over the retail versions, but you had to purchase a "qualifying non-peripheral computer hardware component" with it. This resulted in the absurdity of people buying a 99-cent cable for a power supply to make the purchase legal. It also created lots of confusion in the marketplace That's now changed. The new licensing rules ( http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=555857 ) (link restricted to registered members of System Builder program) allow resellers to distribute unopened packs of Windows and Office to any "system builder" without requiring a trivial hardware purchase: > If you don't open the pack, you can redistribute to other > system builders without any hardware. The new rules also specifically recognize hobbyists and PC enthusiasts as system builders: > OEM system builder software packs are intended for PC > and server manufacturers or assemblers ONLY. They are > not intended for distribution to end users. Unless the > end user is actually assembling his/her own PC, in which > case, that end user is considered a system builder as well. So, go build yourself a PC! ---------------------------------------------------------- Now, the link posted by Ghostwriter: http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2007_SB_Licenses/FY07_SB_License_English.pdf contains this text: > By accepting this license, you agree that you are a system > builder. If you do not open this package, you may deliver > it to another system builder. "System builder" means an > original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, refurbisher, > or pre-installer of software on computer systems. The definition has been altered, but the term "assembler" arguably covers a hobbyist. From the same license: > "Distribution" and "distribute" means the point in time when > a fully assembled computer system leaves the control of > system builder. And then: > A "fully assembled computer system" means a computer system > consisting of at least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a > hard drive (internally mounted (Solid State) NAND and/or > internally mounted revolving magnetic-based hard drive), a > power supply, and a case. So, here's my question: If I build my own system, install Linux on it, then five years later (this time frame would probably not be considered "recent" by newegg.com standards) decide I'd like to install Windows XP on it, I should be able to purchase an OEM installation disk *without* purchasing hardware as long as I maintain control of the system! I never understood what the big deal was (that is, needing to buy hardware). The OEM license is tied to the PC I install it on. That is why it's cheaper than a retail version. But why all the confusion? Why can't Microsoft just state what its policy is on this matter?! Until that happens, there's just speculation and interpretation.
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro We all know the rules - and it is not actually a recent change in the EULA... http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2005/09/07/461950.aspx and linked from there and as descriptive (and more recent): http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2007/02/18/oem-microsoft-software-clarifications-plus-if-it-s-labeled-oem-you-should-stay-away-from-that-neil-macbride-of-the-bsa-business-software-alliance-about-buying-software-online.aspx In the last one - read the comment under: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:35 AM by TechSoEasy -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest dobey Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message news:OgaYKbv3HHA.5796@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > We all know the rules - and it is not actually a recent change in the > EULA... > http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2005/09/07/461950.aspx > and linked from there and as descriptive (and more recent): > http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2007/02/18/oem-microsoft-software-clarifications-plus-if-it-s-labeled-oem-you-should-stay-away-from-that-neil-macbride-of-the-bsa-business-software-alliance-about-buying-software-online.aspx > > > In the last one - read the comment under: > Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:35 AM by TechSoEasy > > ROFL, that's hilarious - so you can't buy XP OEM with a mouse anymore. You just buy the unopened "OEM system builder software pack" with no hardware at all. I'm sure we all know pirated software doesn't come in real boxes with real DVDs.
Guest GHalleck Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro Daave wrote: > Daave wrote: > >>Ghostrider wrote: > > >>>I believe the language has changed, although subtly, due to the >>>Microsoft System Builder Pack packaging, or the only way a >>>distributor can release OEM versions of Microsoft applications. >>>For the current FY07, Item No. 1 is pretty straight-forward in >>>specifying a CPU, motherboard, hard drive, power supply and >>>case, in the example below: >>> >>> >> > http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2007_SB_Licenses/FY07_SB_License_English.pdf > >>>The differentiation between assembled and unassembled units also >>>seems to be gone. >> >>Thanks for posting that. >> >>I guess that explains the language on the newegg.com site and Alias's >>experiences. >> >>But I find it curious that this language is only for the Microsoft OEM >>system builder license. I don't believe it covers whether or not an >>ordinary individual can purchase an OEM disc/license without >>accompanying hardware (specifically, a CPU, motherboard, hard drive, >>power supply and case!). >> >>If Microsoft were to directly address *this* issue (and I don't >>believe they have), it would certainly clear up the confusion. >> >>Or does Microsoft consider the "ordinary person" in this situation a >>system builder? If this is so, is there any language on the >>disc/license that spells this out? >> >>Again, if Microsoft wants to tie the sale (resale, I suppose) of an >>OEM disc/license to the purchase of the specific hardware mentioned >>above, it really should spell it out in *that particular* license (and > > also > >>on the packaging) -- and not just the license for the Microsoft System >>Builder Pack. > > > Upon conducting further research, I am now more confused than ever! > > I can see how this whole silly non-peripheral thing came about. First, > from > http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000763.html : > > > > As part of its System Builder program, Microsoft produced this official > Product Guide for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 > (http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/mosb_productguide/osystem/SB_WinXPMC > E.htm ) : > > >>System Builders must distribute each desktop operating >>system unit with either a fully assembled computer system >>or a nonperipheral computer hardware component. > > > Non-peripheral hardware? What's that? Conveniently, Microsoft has put > together a Web page that defines the term > (http://oem.microsoft.com/script/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=552858 ) : > > >>What is Non-peripheral Hardware? >>A non-peripheral hardware component is one essential to >>running a PC >> >>Examples of non-peripheral hardware: >>Memory >>Internal drives >>Mice >>Keyboards >>Power supplies/cords >> >>Examples of components not considered essential are: >>Scanners >>Printers >>Cameras >>External modems >>Networking device > > > In other words, you can legally buy a copy of Windows XP Media Center > Edition (or any OEM edition of Windows XP for that matter) from any > authorized reseller as long as you buy it with a power cord. Or a mouse. > Or a keyboard. OK? That's the legal, official answer. (Note that this is > not true of OEM copies of application software, like Office, or server > software, like Microsoft Exchange. Those can only be sold with a fully > assembled computer system.) > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > So, to make it an officially sanctioned purchase, buy a power cord (but > not a mouse) along with the OEM disc. > > Then apparently, things changed in 2005: > > From http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=975 : > > > > For the past few years, OEM copies of Windows and Office have been sold > under licensing terms that are just plain silly. Yes, you could buy an > OEM copy of either product, at a substantial savings over the retail > versions, but you had to purchase a "qualifying non-peripheral computer > hardware component" with it. This resulted in the absurdity of people > buying a 99-cent cable for a power supply to make the purchase legal. It > also created lots of confusion in the marketplace > > That's now changed. The new licensing rules ( > http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=555857 ) (link > restricted to registered members of System Builder program) allow > resellers to distribute unopened packs of Windows and Office to any > "system builder" without requiring a trivial hardware purchase: > > >>If you don't open the pack, you can redistribute to other >>system builders without any hardware. > > > The new rules also specifically recognize hobbyists and PC enthusiasts > as system builders: > > >>OEM system builder software packs are intended for PC >>and server manufacturers or assemblers ONLY. They are >>not intended for distribution to end users. Unless the >>end user is actually assembling his/her own PC, in which >>case, that end user is considered a system builder as well. > > > So, go build yourself a PC! > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Now, the link posted by Ghostwriter: > http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2007_SB_Licenses/FY07_SB_License_English.pdf > > contains this text: > > >>By accepting this license, you agree that you are a system >>builder. If you do not open this package, you may deliver >>it to another system builder. "System builder" means an >>original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, refurbisher, >>or pre-installer of software on computer systems. > > > The definition has been altered, but the term "assembler" arguably > covers a hobbyist. > > From the same license: > > >>"Distribution" and "distribute" means the point in time when >>a fully assembled computer system leaves the control of >>system builder. > > > And then: > > >>A "fully assembled computer system" means a computer system >>consisting of at least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a >>hard drive (internally mounted (Solid State) NAND and/or >>internally mounted revolving magnetic-based hard drive), a >>power supply, and a case. > > > So, here's my question: > > If I build my own system, install Linux on it, then five years later > (this time frame would probably not be considered "recent" by newegg.com > standards) decide I'd like to install Windows XP on it, I should be able > to purchase an OEM installation disk *without* purchasing hardware as > long as I maintain control of the system! > > I never understood what the big deal was (that is, needing to buy > hardware). The OEM license is tied to the PC I install it on. That is > why it's cheaper than a retail version. > > But why all the confusion? Why can't Microsoft just state what its > policy is on this matter?! Until that happens, there's just speculation > and interpretation. > > The catch to all of this is who is entitled to buy the original System Builder Pack, break it open and sell the OEM copy. The loophole that the DIY'er or hobbyist is a "builder" has been, more or less, eliminated by the System Builder Pack packaging. And this is the bind that Newegg and other distributors found themslves. It's akin to the story of who can buy (or, actually, be sold) a Volume License Kit. If one had a business (or corporate tax ID) license, the reputable dealers would sell the Kit. Regrettably, Microsoft is, indeed, stating its policies more clearer.
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