Guest langelgjm Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 I work for a small business, and I have been using Remote Desktop to work from home and school quite happily for the past 3 years. We recently purchased an upgrade to one of our manufacturing software packages (this is high-priced CAD/CAM stuff, complete with hardware security dongles), and I just discovered that the "upgrade" no longer allows the application to be run over Remote Desktop. This wasn't disclosed anywhere. I called the distributor, and was told that my options are to buy a network key and another license for the software, which will cost several thousand dollars, or to use a service like GoToMyPC or VNC. Frankly, I'm at a loss; I don't understand: 1) why they deny Remote Desktop but then suggest you use another program to accomplish the same thing; 2) why I should need a network key and two licenses when only one person can use Remote Desktop at a time; 3) why I should have to pay nearly $200 a year indefinitely and rely on a third party (GoToMyPC) to accomplish what I've been doing for free in the past. I specifically chose not to use VNC because Remote Desktop is significantly faster and better looking over slow network connections; also, Remote Desktop has lightweight and secure clients for OS X, Pocket PC, and Linux, all of which I use. After a little research, I believe what is going on is that the application in question is somehow checking if Terminal Services is running and active, with a user logged in. I know from a forum for the product that it will not run properly on a Windows Server with Terminal Services, the idea being that then more than one user could use the application at the same time. As for why they disabled this in XP Pro, where only one user can be logged in at a time, I think it's either shoddy programming, or because there are some hacks that allow XP Pro to have two or three users logged in simultaneously. Has anyone experienced anything similar with other applications? Are there any known workarounds for this, such as a way to fool the application into thinking that Terminal Services/Remote Desktop isn't running? I'm really frustrated by this whole situation.
Guest Vera Noest [MVP] Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: Bypassing Application Check for Terminal Services langelgjm <gjm@umd.edu> wrote on 14 aug 2007 in microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services: > As for > why they disabled this in XP Pro, where only one user can be > logged in at a time, I think it's either shoddy programming, or > because there are some hacks that allow XP Pro to have two or > three users logged in simultaneously. There is indeed 3rd party software around which makes it possible (but not legal) to run multiple sessions on XP Pro (up to 20, I believe!). > Has anyone experienced anything similar with other applications? > Are there any known workarounds for this, such as a way to fool > the application into thinking that Terminal Services/Remote > Desktop isn't running? I'm really frustrated by this whole > situation. I understand your frustration, but I think that there's not much you can do. Seems to me a licensing strategy of the vendor. Most likely, the application uses a call to the GetSystemMetrics() function, which returns TRUE if the application is running in a remote session and FALSE if the application is running on the console. _________________________________________________________ Vera Noest MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net ___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___
Guest ThomasT. Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Re: Bypassing Application Check for Terminal Services You can try to use injecting code technic that injects the code to capture GetSystemMetric function and returns false , or something similar, but this's not a easy technic . I have done some kind like that on the Windows 2000 Terminal Server there is no timezone redirection, then I have to inject the code that capture function GetLocalTime and make adjutment with the timezone on the client machine . It works but not easy to archive. Good luck Regards Thomas T "langelgjm" <gjm@umd.edu> wrote in message news:1187112116.516917.306680@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >I work for a small business, and I have been using Remote Desktop to > work from home and school quite happily for the past 3 years. We > recently purchased an upgrade to one of our manufacturing software > packages (this is high-priced CAD/CAM stuff, complete with hardware > security dongles), and I just discovered that the "upgrade" no longer > allows the application to be run over Remote Desktop. This wasn't > disclosed anywhere. I called the distributor, and was told that my > options are to buy a network key and another license for the software, > which will cost several thousand dollars, or to use a service like > GoToMyPC or VNC. Frankly, I'm at a loss; I don't understand: 1) why > they deny Remote Desktop but then suggest you use another program to > accomplish the same thing; 2) why I should need a network key and two > licenses when only one person can use Remote Desktop at a time; 3) why > I should have to pay nearly $200 a year indefinitely and rely on a > third party (GoToMyPC) to accomplish what I've been doing for free in > the past. I specifically chose not to use VNC because Remote Desktop > is significantly faster and better looking over slow network > connections; also, Remote Desktop has lightweight and secure clients > for OS X, Pocket PC, and Linux, all of which I use. > > After a little research, I believe what is going on is that the > application in question is somehow checking if Terminal Services is > running and active, with a user logged in. I know from a forum for the > product that it will not run properly on a Windows Server with > Terminal Services, the idea being that then more than one user could > use the application at the same time. As for why they disabled this in > XP Pro, where only one user can be logged in at a time, I think it's > either shoddy programming, or because there are some hacks that allow > XP Pro to have two or three users logged in simultaneously. > > Has anyone experienced anything similar with other applications? Are > there any known workarounds for this, such as a way to fool the > application into thinking that Terminal Services/Remote Desktop isn't > running? I'm really frustrated by this whole situation. >
Guest Sam Hobbs Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 Re: Bypassing Application Check for Terminal Services There is software available that can make it relatively easy for a Windows programmer such as you to inject a DLL that hooks system calls such as GetSystemMetric. An example of that is the Microsoft Research product Detours, but it is expensive for commercial use I am told (I am not sure). My guess though is that the solution is not that simple. Expensive software such as that that wants to inhibit it's use can easily make things more difficult. There is anti-injection software. So as they say, even if you win the battle, you will likely lose the war. It is likely not worthwhile dealing with this on a technical level; it is likely worthwhile dealing with it on a legal level. If anyone wants to get really technical, there is (was) a recent discussion in the MSDN VC General forum discussing the possibility of preventing DLL injection. We can probably assume that the vendor of the other software is aware of at least the issues mentioned in that thread, or (their developers) will become familiar with those issues if they discover they need to. There are many other articles on the subject in other web sites. "ThomasT." <ThomasT@nospam.nospam> wrote in message news:u79maZr3HHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > You can try to use injecting code technic that injects the code to capture > GetSystemMetric function > and returns false , or something similar, but this's not a easy technic . > I have done some kind like that > on the Windows 2000 Terminal Server there is no timezone redirection, then > I have to inject > the code that capture function GetLocalTime and make adjutment with the > timezone on the client > machine . It works but not easy to archive. > > Good luck > > Regards > > Thomas T > > "langelgjm" <gjm@umd.edu> wrote in message > news:1187112116.516917.306680@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>I work for a small business, and I have been using Remote Desktop to >> work from home and school quite happily for the past 3 years. We >> recently purchased an upgrade to one of our manufacturing software >> packages (this is high-priced CAD/CAM stuff, complete with hardware >> security dongles), and I just discovered that the "upgrade" no longer >> allows the application to be run over Remote Desktop. This wasn't >> disclosed anywhere. I called the distributor, and was told that my >> options are to buy a network key and another license for the software, >> which will cost several thousand dollars, or to use a service like >> GoToMyPC or VNC. Frankly, I'm at a loss; I don't understand: 1) why >> they deny Remote Desktop but then suggest you use another program to >> accomplish the same thing; 2) why I should need a network key and two >> licenses when only one person can use Remote Desktop at a time; 3) why >> I should have to pay nearly $200 a year indefinitely and rely on a >> third party (GoToMyPC) to accomplish what I've been doing for free in >> the past. I specifically chose not to use VNC because Remote Desktop >> is significantly faster and better looking over slow network >> connections; also, Remote Desktop has lightweight and secure clients >> for OS X, Pocket PC, and Linux, all of which I use. >> >> After a little research, I believe what is going on is that the >> application in question is somehow checking if Terminal Services is >> running and active, with a user logged in. I know from a forum for the >> product that it will not run properly on a Windows Server with >> Terminal Services, the idea being that then more than one user could >> use the application at the same time. As for why they disabled this in >> XP Pro, where only one user can be logged in at a time, I think it's >> either shoddy programming, or because there are some hacks that allow >> XP Pro to have two or three users logged in simultaneously. >> >> Has anyone experienced anything similar with other applications? Are >> there any known workarounds for this, such as a way to fool the >> application into thinking that Terminal Services/Remote Desktop isn't >> running? I'm really frustrated by this whole situation. >> > >
Guest ThomasT. Posted August 22, 2007 Posted August 22, 2007 Re: Bypassing Application Check for Terminal Services What is your point here ? Are you trying to help the person who asks the original question ? I have tried many tools including Detours (Detours is suck, not easy to use at all). Surely there are many technics for preventing injecting code. But in general, the injecting code is the way to bypass the problem asked here . There are a lot articles and samples on Code Project website and other site on the Internet . There is nothing illegal here, you don't modify the program, and if the license agreement does not specify that you don't have right to use under a Remote Session (and ha has specified only 1 user who uses at a time) so what is the illegal point ? "Sam Hobbs" <samuel@social.rr.com_change_social_to_socal> wrote in message news:%23IbdF8E5HHA.2108@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > There is software available that can make it relatively easy for a Windows > programmer such as you to inject a DLL that hooks system calls such as > GetSystemMetric. An example of that is the Microsoft Research product > Detours, but it is expensive for commercial use I am told (I am not sure). > > My guess though is that the solution is not that simple. Expensive > software such as that that wants to inhibit it's use can easily make > things more difficult. There is anti-injection software. So as they say, > even if you win the battle, you will likely lose the war. It is likely not > worthwhile dealing with this on a technical level; it is likely worthwhile > dealing with it on a legal level. > > If anyone wants to get really technical, there is (was) a recent > discussion in the MSDN VC General forum discussing the possibility of > preventing DLL injection. We can probably assume that the vendor of the > other software is aware of at least the issues mentioned in that thread, > or (their developers) will become familiar with those issues if they > discover they need to. There are many other articles on the subject in > other web sites. > > > "ThomasT." <ThomasT@nospam.nospam> wrote in message > news:u79maZr3HHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> You can try to use injecting code technic that injects the code to >> capture GetSystemMetric function >> and returns false , or something similar, but this's not a easy technic . >> I have done some kind like that >> on the Windows 2000 Terminal Server there is no timezone redirection, >> then I have to inject >> the code that capture function GetLocalTime and make adjutment with the >> timezone on the client >> machine . It works but not easy to archive. >> >> Good luck >> >> Regards >> >> Thomas T >> >> "langelgjm" <gjm@umd.edu> wrote in message >> news:1187112116.516917.306680@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>I work for a small business, and I have been using Remote Desktop to >>> work from home and school quite happily for the past 3 years. We >>> recently purchased an upgrade to one of our manufacturing software >>> packages (this is high-priced CAD/CAM stuff, complete with hardware >>> security dongles), and I just discovered that the "upgrade" no longer >>> allows the application to be run over Remote Desktop. This wasn't >>> disclosed anywhere. I called the distributor, and was told that my >>> options are to buy a network key and another license for the software, >>> which will cost several thousand dollars, or to use a service like >>> GoToMyPC or VNC. Frankly, I'm at a loss; I don't understand: 1) why >>> they deny Remote Desktop but then suggest you use another program to >>> accomplish the same thing; 2) why I should need a network key and two >>> licenses when only one person can use Remote Desktop at a time; 3) why >>> I should have to pay nearly $200 a year indefinitely and rely on a >>> third party (GoToMyPC) to accomplish what I've been doing for free in >>> the past. I specifically chose not to use VNC because Remote Desktop >>> is significantly faster and better looking over slow network >>> connections; also, Remote Desktop has lightweight and secure clients >>> for OS X, Pocket PC, and Linux, all of which I use. >>> >>> After a little research, I believe what is going on is that the >>> application in question is somehow checking if Terminal Services is >>> running and active, with a user logged in. I know from a forum for the >>> product that it will not run properly on a Windows Server with >>> Terminal Services, the idea being that then more than one user could >>> use the application at the same time. As for why they disabled this in >>> XP Pro, where only one user can be logged in at a time, I think it's >>> either shoddy programming, or because there are some hacks that allow >>> XP Pro to have two or three users logged in simultaneously. >>> >>> Has anyone experienced anything similar with other applications? Are >>> there any known workarounds for this, such as a way to fool the >>> application into thinking that Terminal Services/Remote Desktop isn't >>> running? I'm really frustrated by this whole situation. >>> >> >> > >
Guest Sam Hobbs Posted August 23, 2007 Posted August 23, 2007 Re: Bypassing Application Check for Terminal Services I have many points, but one important point is that it is unlikely that the solution would be as easy as intercepting GetSystemMetric. I would be surprised if it was that easy. Also I am saying that it might be relatively easy to do but if so then when someone does something to get around other software then a vendor of other sofware with staff as sufficient as this one would likely respond with something more difficult. "ThomasT." <ThomasT@nospam.nospam> wrote in message news:uf965aM5HHA.5804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > What is your point here ? Are you trying to help the person who asks the > original question ? > > I have tried many tools including Detours (Detours is suck, not easy to > use at all). > Surely there are many technics for preventing injecting code. But in > general, the injecting > code is the way to bypass the problem asked here . There are a lot > articles and samples > on Code Project website and other site on the Internet . There is nothing > illegal here, > you don't modify the program, and if the license agreement does not > specify that you > don't have right to use under a Remote Session (and ha has specified only > 1 user who uses at a time) > so what is the illegal point ? > > "Sam Hobbs" <samuel@social.rr.com_change_social_to_socal> wrote in message > news:%23IbdF8E5HHA.2108@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> There is software available that can make it relatively easy for a >> Windows programmer such as you to inject a DLL that hooks system calls >> such as GetSystemMetric. An example of that is the Microsoft Research >> product Detours, but it is expensive for commercial use I am told (I am >> not sure). >> >> My guess though is that the solution is not that simple. Expensive >> software such as that that wants to inhibit it's use can easily make >> things more difficult. There is anti-injection software. So as they say, >> even if you win the battle, you will likely lose the war. It is likely >> not worthwhile dealing with this on a technical level; it is likely >> worthwhile dealing with it on a legal level. >> >> If anyone wants to get really technical, there is (was) a recent >> discussion in the MSDN VC General forum discussing the possibility of >> preventing DLL injection. We can probably assume that the vendor of the >> other software is aware of at least the issues mentioned in that thread, >> or (their developers) will become familiar with those issues if they >> discover they need to. There are many other articles on the subject in >> other web sites. >> >> >> "ThomasT." <ThomasT@nospam.nospam> wrote in message >> news:u79maZr3HHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> You can try to use injecting code technic that injects the code to >>> capture GetSystemMetric function >>> and returns false , or something similar, but this's not a easy technic >>> . I have done some kind like that >>> on the Windows 2000 Terminal Server there is no timezone redirection, >>> then I have to inject >>> the code that capture function GetLocalTime and make adjutment with the >>> timezone on the client >>> machine . It works but not easy to archive. >>> >>> Good luck >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Thomas T >>> >>> "langelgjm" <gjm@umd.edu> wrote in message >>> news:1187112116.516917.306680@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>I work for a small business, and I have been using Remote Desktop to >>>> work from home and school quite happily for the past 3 years. We >>>> recently purchased an upgrade to one of our manufacturing software >>>> packages (this is high-priced CAD/CAM stuff, complete with hardware >>>> security dongles), and I just discovered that the "upgrade" no longer >>>> allows the application to be run over Remote Desktop. This wasn't >>>> disclosed anywhere. I called the distributor, and was told that my >>>> options are to buy a network key and another license for the software, >>>> which will cost several thousand dollars, or to use a service like >>>> GoToMyPC or VNC. Frankly, I'm at a loss; I don't understand: 1) why >>>> they deny Remote Desktop but then suggest you use another program to >>>> accomplish the same thing; 2) why I should need a network key and two >>>> licenses when only one person can use Remote Desktop at a time; 3) why >>>> I should have to pay nearly $200 a year indefinitely and rely on a >>>> third party (GoToMyPC) to accomplish what I've been doing for free in >>>> the past. I specifically chose not to use VNC because Remote Desktop >>>> is significantly faster and better looking over slow network >>>> connections; also, Remote Desktop has lightweight and secure clients >>>> for OS X, Pocket PC, and Linux, all of which I use. >>>> >>>> After a little research, I believe what is going on is that the >>>> application in question is somehow checking if Terminal Services is >>>> running and active, with a user logged in. I know from a forum for the >>>> product that it will not run properly on a Windows Server with >>>> Terminal Services, the idea being that then more than one user could >>>> use the application at the same time. As for why they disabled this in >>>> XP Pro, where only one user can be logged in at a time, I think it's >>>> either shoddy programming, or because there are some hacks that allow >>>> XP Pro to have two or three users logged in simultaneously. >>>> >>>> Has anyone experienced anything similar with other applications? Are >>>> there any known workarounds for this, such as a way to fool the >>>> application into thinking that Terminal Services/Remote Desktop isn't >>>> running? I'm really frustrated by this whole situation. >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
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