Guest Justin Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Is it dangerous to run a laptop of AC power without the battery? i.e. won't cause a fire. I don't want to ruin the battery life since I don't need to use it much as I am always near a power socket.
Guest Pegasus \(MVP\) Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "Justin" <Justin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:29EA41E0-B253-43A9-AC6F-889C28A2C726@microsoft.com... > Is it dangerous to run a laptop of AC power without the battery? i.e. > won't > cause a fire. > > I don't want to ruin the battery life since I don't need to use it much as > I > am always near a power socket. It's perfectly OK to run it without batteries. I've been doing it for years. Unfortunately I cannot yet say conclusively that this mode extends the life of the battery. The boys in a hardware newsgroup might be able to tell you.
Guest Kenny Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? I have a fairly new Advent laptop and it won't run with the battery out! -- Kenny Cargill "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com> wrote in message news:%23B8n78w3HHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > > "Justin" <Justin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:29EA41E0-B253-43A9-AC6F-889C28A2C726@microsoft.com... >> Is it dangerous to run a laptop of AC power without the battery? i.e. >> won't >> cause a fire. >> >> I don't want to ruin the battery life since I don't need to use it much >> as I >> am always near a power socket. > > It's perfectly OK to run it without batteries. I've been doing > it for years. Unfortunately I cannot yet say conclusively that > this mode extends the life of the battery. The boys in a hardware > newsgroup might be able to tell you. >
Guest Anteaus Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 RE: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? One or two manufacturers say you shouldn't do that. In the majority of cases it's perfectly OK though. The main fire risk is from the battery itself, and arises if it suffers an internal short, or is severely overcharged (if the laptop's internal charge-regulator fails, that is.) Fires are rare but when a lithium pack does 'go up' it's very hard to extinguish, most conventional fire-extinguishers won't deal with it. There are mostly no components in a laptop itself which present any major fire risk, other than the battery. Thus removing the battery leads to greater safety. The service-life of lithium batteries depends a lot on the temperature at which they're stored. It's also said that they deteriorate less if stored at somewhat less than full charge (but not flat, in which case they deteriorate quickly.) Since many laptops run hot, and constantly trickle-charge the battery, it can be assumed that a battery stored in a cool place and occasionally charged will retain its performance longer than one left in the computer all the time.
Guest philo Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com> wrote in message news:%23B8n78w3HHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > > "Justin" <Justin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:29EA41E0-B253-43A9-AC6F-889C28A2C726@microsoft.com... > > Is it dangerous to run a laptop of AC power without the battery? i.e. > > won't > > cause a fire. > > > > I don't want to ruin the battery life since I don't need to use it much as > > I > > am always near a power socket. > > It's perfectly OK to run it without batteries. I've been doing > it for years. Unfortunately I cannot yet say conclusively that > this mode extends the life of the battery. The boys in a hardware > newsgroup might be able to tell you. > > That's correct..most laptops (but not all) can be run without a battery... but the battery should be cycled occasionally. If left unused for a long period of time...it can loose capacity. Also...even if kept fully charged ...it needs to be discharged (no more than 80%) on occasion
Guest M.I.5¾ Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:A994833D-C9FB-4D5B-A775-8CC381569C73@microsoft.com... > One or two manufacturers say you shouldn't do that. In the majority of > cases > it's perfectly OK though. > > The main fire risk is from the battery itself, and arises if it suffers an > internal short, or is severely overcharged (if the laptop's internal > charge-regulator fails, that is.) Fires are rare but when a lithium pack > does > 'go up' it's very hard to extinguish, most conventional fire-extinguishers > won't deal with it. > It's not hard to extinguish. It's completely impossible. Burning Li-ion batteries generate their own oxygen. Generally, the batteries are quite safe as long as they are properly used. > There are mostly no components in a laptop itself which present any major > fire risk, other than the battery. Thus removing the battery leads to > greater > safety. > > The service-life of lithium batteries depends a lot on the temperature at > which they're stored. It's also said that they deteriorate less if stored > at > somewhat less than full charge (but not flat, in which case they > deteriorate > quickly.) Since many laptops run hot, and constantly trickle-charge the > battery, it can be assumed that a battery stored in a cool place and > occasionally charged will retain its performance longer than one left in > the > computer all the time. > Temperature is the most serious issue. Most of the so called experts tell dire stories of life shortage if the batteries are stored at predominantly full charge. However, I have several examples of batteries that are now over 13 years old, and still exhibit a sunstantially full capacity in spite of always being maintained at full charge. I also have 2 batteries that completely died after 1 year's use, but then they were made by Sony, so what could I expect?
Guest Anteaus Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "M.I.5¾" wrote: > I also have 2 batteries that completely died after 1 year's use, but then > they were made by Sony, so what could I expect? > Probably DRM. The battery intentionally self-destructs if it's used to play CDs released by rival companies. <g>
Guest Mike Lowery Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message news:46c2d1e8$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net... > > "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:A994833D-C9FB-4D5B-A775-8CC381569C73@microsoft.com... >> One or two manufacturers say you shouldn't do that. In the majority of cases >> it's perfectly OK though. >> >> The main fire risk is from the battery itself, and arises if it suffers an >> internal short, or is severely overcharged (if the laptop's internal >> charge-regulator fails, that is.) Fires are rare but when a lithium pack does >> 'go up' it's very hard to extinguish, most conventional fire-extinguishers >> won't deal with it. >> > > It's not hard to extinguish. It's completely impossible. Burning Li-ion > batteries generate their own oxygen. Generally, the batteries are quite safe > as long as they are properly used. > >> There are mostly no components in a laptop itself which present any major >> fire risk, other than the battery. Thus removing the battery leads to greater >> safety. >> >> The service-life of lithium batteries depends a lot on the temperature at >> which they're stored. It's also said that they deteriorate less if stored at >> somewhat less than full charge (but not flat, in which case they deteriorate >> quickly.) Since many laptops run hot, and constantly trickle-charge the >> battery, it can be assumed that a battery stored in a cool place and >> occasionally charged will retain its performance longer than one left in the >> computer all the time. >> > > Temperature is the most serious issue. Most of the so called experts tell > dire stories of life shortage if the batteries are stored at predominantly > full charge. However, I have several examples of batteries that are now over > 13 years old, and still exhibit a sunstantially full capacity in spite of > always being maintained at full charge. > > I also have 2 batteries that completely died after 1 year's use, but then they > were made by Sony, so what could I expect? Assuming Lithium-ion battery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-on#Guidelines_for_prolonging_Li-ion_battery_life
Guest Poprivet Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? Justin wrote: > Is it dangerous to run a laptop of AC power without the battery? i.e. > won't cause a fire. > > I don't want to ruin the battery life since I don't need to use it > much as I am always near a power socket. No. Battery life may well be better by leaving it in the computer. If you stick if on the shelf and it discharges too far, then it won't be very useful anyway. When ac power is on, the battery isn't being used unless it asks for a bit of charging. Soon's it's done being charged, it's not being used anymore. I can't guarantee it of course, but you're very unlikely to see any lifetime changes with the battery left in. In some cases it could even be longer because then the battery gets exercised occasionally. Pop`
Guest Shenan Stanley Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? Poprivet wrote: Justin wrote: > Is it dangerous to run a laptop of AC power without the battery? > i.e. won't cause a fire. > > I don't want to ruin the battery life since I don't need to use it > much as I am always near a power socket. > No. > > Battery life may well be better by leaving it in the computer. If > you stick if on the shelf and it discharges too far, then it won't > be very useful anyway. > When ac power is on, the battery isn't being used unless it asks > for a bit of charging. Soon's it's done being charged, it's not > being used anymore. > > I can't guarantee it of course, but you're very unlikely to see any > lifetime changes with the battery left in. In some cases it could > even be longer because then the battery gets exercised occasionally. Modern battery life is shortened by 'leaving it in' after it has achieved maximum charge - because of the heat. Over a lifetime of a laptop - the maximum time a computer will run off the battery will decrease no matter what (as the battery ages) - but the speed of this decline increases as more heat is applied to the battery - and one way more heat gets applied is leaving the battery in at all times - even when connected to power and the battery is already fully charged. -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Guest Patrick Keenan Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "Justin" <Justin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:29EA41E0-B253-43A9-AC6F-889C28A2C726@microsoft.com... > Is it dangerous to run a laptop of AC power without the battery? i.e. > won't > cause a fire. > > I don't want to ruin the battery life since I don't need to use it much as > I > am always near a power socket. No, it's not dangerous in terms of fire or physical damage. However, in case of any power interrruption, the system will instantly lose power and this has been known to damage Windows, or corrupt data. Neither of these are fun. So, if you aren't going to use the battery, try to use a UPS so that if power does go down, other than accidentally pulling the power cord, the system will stay on for a few minutes. Alternately, many laptops come with power management software that can be set so the battery isn't constantly being charged and degraded. HTH -pk
Guest PA Bear Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? Start here: http://batteryuniversity.com/ -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Justin wrote: > Is it dangerous to run a laptop of AC power without the battery? i.e. > won't > cause a fire. > > I don't want to ruin the battery life since I don't need to use it much as > I > am always near a power socket.
Guest M.I.5¾ Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:DE554A9F-DBDF-4009-BBAD-6DDAD6D279D5@microsoft.com... > > "M.I.5¾" wrote: > >> I also have 2 batteries that completely died after 1 year's use, but then >> they were made by Sony, so what could I expect? >> > > Probably DRM. The battery intentionally self-destructs if it's used to > play > CDs released by rival companies. <g> > LOL! Though it would be tad tricky on a camcorder.
Guest M.I.5¾ Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "Mike Lowery" <selfspam@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message news:uIaR7203HHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > > "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message > news:46c2d1e8$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net... >> >> "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message >> news:A994833D-C9FB-4D5B-A775-8CC381569C73@microsoft.com... >>> One or two manufacturers say you shouldn't do that. In the majority of >>> cases >>> it's perfectly OK though. >>> >>> The main fire risk is from the battery itself, and arises if it suffers >>> an >>> internal short, or is severely overcharged (if the laptop's internal >>> charge-regulator fails, that is.) Fires are rare but when a lithium pack >>> does >>> 'go up' it's very hard to extinguish, most conventional >>> fire-extinguishers >>> won't deal with it. >>> >> >> It's not hard to extinguish. It's completely impossible. Burning Li-ion >> batteries generate their own oxygen. Generally, the batteries are quite >> safe as long as they are properly used. >> >>> There are mostly no components in a laptop itself which present any >>> major >>> fire risk, other than the battery. Thus removing the battery leads to >>> greater >>> safety. >>> >>> The service-life of lithium batteries depends a lot on the temperature >>> at >>> which they're stored. It's also said that they deteriorate less if >>> stored at >>> somewhat less than full charge (but not flat, in which case they >>> deteriorate >>> quickly.) Since many laptops run hot, and constantly trickle-charge the >>> battery, it can be assumed that a battery stored in a cool place and >>> occasionally charged will retain its performance longer than one left in >>> the >>> computer all the time. >>> >> >> Temperature is the most serious issue. Most of the so called experts >> tell dire stories of life shortage if the batteries are stored at >> predominantly full charge. However, I have several examples of batteries >> that are now over 13 years old, and still exhibit a sunstantially full >> capacity in spite of always being maintained at full charge. >> >> I also have 2 batteries that completely died after 1 year's use, but then >> they were made by Sony, so what could I expect? > > Assuming Lithium-ion battery: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-on#Guidelines_for_prolonging_Li-ion_battery_life > Although most of that advice is valid, not all of it is. This is normal for Wikipedia which should not be regarded as an authority on anything.
Guest M.I.5¾ Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "Patrick Keenan" <test@dev.null> wrote in message news:%23CEj5n53HHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > "Justin" <Justin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:29EA41E0-B253-43A9-AC6F-889C28A2C726@microsoft.com... >> Is it dangerous to run a laptop of AC power without the battery? i.e. >> won't >> cause a fire. >> >> I don't want to ruin the battery life since I don't need to use it much >> as I >> am always near a power socket. > > No, it's not dangerous in terms of fire or physical damage. > > However, in case of any power interrruption, the system will instantly > lose power and this has been known to damage Windows, or corrupt data. > Neither of these are fun. > > So, if you aren't going to use the battery, try to use a UPS so that if > power does go down, other than accidentally pulling the power cord, the > system will stay on for a few minutes. > > Alternately, many laptops come with power management software that can be > set so the battery isn't constantly being charged and degraded. > It isn't constant charging that degrades the batteries. It is the heat generated inside the laptop being transfered to the battery. If the battery was being constantly charged, it it would betray this by errupting in a huge fireball. If you really want a UPS then use a $30 UPS rather than a $200 battery.
Guest M.I.5¾ Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:%233x2%23q53HHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Start here: http://batteryuniversity.com/ > But beware that that site is run by a manufacturer of chargers and 'battery conditioners'. Although much of what they say is apposite, by no means all of it is.
Guest Paul Randall Posted August 16, 2007 Posted August 16, 2007 Re: Is it Dangerous to run a laptop without the battery? "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message news:46c3f1cb$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net... > > "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:%233x2%23q53HHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> Start here: http://batteryuniversity.com/ >> > > But beware that that site is run by a manufacturer of chargers and > 'battery conditioners'. Although much of what they say is apposite, by no > means all of it is. I agree. I've reread http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm, all sections on extending battery life. I have not found anything that might be fudged to be beneficial manufacturers of chargers and 'battery conditioners'. Have you, and if so, what parts. Seems to me, this article tells me that laptop manufacturers could greatly extend the life of the batteries (and lower their profit margin) by redisgning the power management to give the user the option of specifying the start and end charging points. If you mostly run your laptop from 110VAc, then you might set these to 45% and 35%. When you know you will be using the laptop for frequent or long periods without 110VAC, then change the settings to 100% and 95%. The manual might even say to set aside a shelf in the refrigerator to store the laptop when not in use overnight, although there may be other reasons for not doing this. On these hot August days, a cold laptop might be nice. I think a better method of battery installation and removal would be needed if the battery were frequently removed. -Paul Ranall Drivers of
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