Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:eqJoZps4HHA.3940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>I don't remember too much from the 1980's Dan. I think I was in the midst

> of a decade-long blackout.

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

XP has three possible settings. Hide Hidden files, show Hidden files, and

show "super-hidden" files (Protected Operating System files). I leave that

last turned of because it makes a lot of things more inconvenient. They

often can't be moved or deleted and that makes mass file operations a pain..

As for XP vs 9x, or the prospects of a new 9x... You realize that you're

beating a dead horse, right? Ain't never going to happen unless MS for some

reason gives away the patent on the 9x kernel and someone else does it.

Writing endless paragraphs about it is not going to change the facts (and

will prompt me to start ignoring your posts again). You could bury MS in

suggestion/complaint letters and it still would never happen. It's like

asking Ford to bring back the Econoline. Never going to happen. Get over it.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:095127BA-8FAF-4D3F-8095-CC4D1D45A0C9@microsoft.com...

> The question that I ask is if you reveal all files in XP Professional does

> it

> really reveal all the files or still keep some secret. I have heard with

> 98SE when you reveal all the files then it actually reveals them. I still

> see 98SE and the 9x source code as being the superior source code in terms

> of

> compatibility and working with APS has shown me how APS still needs and

> uses

> old 98SE computers for all of their older software that has cost too much

> to

> get rid of. Now if Microsoft would only listen to me and realize they

> made a

> mistake by elimating the 9x line then maybe things would be better. I am

> now

> using Millenium at work and it is not terrible. It is stupid that

> Microsoft

> removed the easy access to MS-DOS from Millenium. In addition, some of

> the

> tabing issues and style issues of ME irritate me. I may just have to

> format

> the ME machine and install 98 Second Edition on it. I already have some

> valid and legal copies of 98 Second Edition and could always buy more on

> Ebay

> if it becomes necessary. Heck, I think 98 SE still has some life in it

> left

> despite the fact that support was elimated by Microsoft on July 11, 2006.

> 98SE is still a killer operating system in my opinion and the best

> operating

> system Microsoft has to offer. XP Professional would be my second choice

> after 98SE with Microsoft operating systems.

>

> "PCR" wrote:

>

>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

>> news:e0G$qTp4HHA.5804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

>> | 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then

>> | again, sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want

>> | one that's fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo

>> | supporting large drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of

>> | incompatibility can be EXTREMELY frustrating.

>>

>> Understood. Still, Teflon may as well face those issues now-- & not wait

>> for the day an HDD crash puts his head through the ceiling!

>>

>> | 2. Outside of using BING, he has no imaging app that will likely run

>> | on the 98 machine, whether it's run from Windows or run from a

>> | bootable CD.

>>

>> BING is good enough for it, then...

>>

>> http://www.bootitng.com/ 's BootIt NG, has a variety of backup

>> capabilities & works with all OS: Copy partition(s) to HDD, or Image to

>> HDD or to CD or DVD. Create, move, shrink or expand partitions without

>> data loss. Multi-boot too. To install & use beyond 30 days, $34.95.

>>

>> | My ideal solution would be another HD (one that's large enough to hold

>> | images of C: and D:) and BING. Partition letters don't enter into the

>> | equation, since the machine never needs to be booted with the disk

>> | connected. But Teflon sounds like he has a decent plan, already.

>>

>> I guess his plan is a good one, except he'll need that 2nd HDD some day

>> anyhow. And there is the caveat you did bring up about booting XP & the

>> secret folders it may create.

>>

>> | --

>> | Gary S. Terhune

>> | MS-MVP Shell/User

>> | http://www.grystmill.com

>> |

>> | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

>> | news:%23AL0YGp4HHA.5852@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> |> "Teflon" <spambaitmeister@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> |> news:1187537643.175079.269170@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com

>> |> | On Aug 18, 9:56 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

>> |> |> Same applies to Ghost (more so -- I doubt any recent version of

>> |> |> Ghost will run on Win98, period.) Maybe OP already has a legacy

>> |> |> copy. However, OP is using a newer XP machine to do the task. If

>> |> |> the imaging app needs to run on the Win98 machine, then I'd

>> |> |> recommend BootIt NG.

>> |> |

>> |> | Being referred to as OP always makes me think I'm Ron Howard on

>> |> | Mayberry RFD with Andy Griffith (don't I wish).

>> |> |

>> |> | Anyway, thanks for your input. I'm not going to try running Ghost

>> |> | or True Image on the 98FE machine. Since the machine only has a CD

>> |> | ROM drive, and I can't connect an external HDD or DVD burner to

>> |> | that machine, plus the partitioned internal HDD's D: drive is

>> |> | full, the only option I saw to get an 'image / clone' (always got

>> |> | those two confused) of the C: drive was to remove it and use my XP

>> |> | machine's more robust facilities to create that image for backup

>> |> | (fall-back) purposes.

>> |>

>> |> Are C:\ & D:\ two partitions on a single master HDD on the Primary

>> |> IDE connector of the motherboard in the 98FE machine? And is the CD

>> |> drive connected as a master on the Secondary IDE connector of the

>> |> motherboard? That's the setup I had! So... a second option is to

>> |> connect a second HDD as a slave to the first & cut the XP-machine

>> |> out of the picture altogether! I have a master on how to do that!

>> |> Probably, when done, your D:partition will become E:partition, if

>> |> you elect to keep the second HDD permanently installed.

>> |>

>> |> | I do have both Ghost and True Image, so will try both to create an

>> |> | image on the external HDD, then burn them to DVD. Will have to

>> |> | transfer to several CD's if I do need to fall-back, since the 98

>> |> | machine only has CD ROM and floppy drives. Would multiple CD's be

>> |> | a problem?

>> |> |

>> |> | Thanks again for your comments and suggestions.

>> |> |

>> |> | One other question, could I install SE over FE and save the effort

>> |> | of reapplying all the MS fixes and reinstalling all the apps?

>> |> | Probably not, or someone probably would have suggested that.

>> |> |

>> |> | Some may consider that to be a really dumb question, but I've found

>> |> | the only really dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

>> |>

>> |> --

>> |> Thanks or Good Luck,

>> |> There may be humor in this post, and,

>> |> Naturally, you will not sue,

>> |> Should things get worse after this,

>> |> PCR

>> |> pcrrcp@netzero.net

>>

>> --

>> Thanks or Good Luck,

>> There may be humor in this post, and,

>> Naturally, you will not sue,

>> Should things get worse after this,

>> PCR

>> pcrrcp@netzero.net

>>

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

There are several other possible incompatibilities and limits besides the

one you mention, and no, I'm not going to list them. I'll let someone else

do that.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:B15668C7-1C7B-4F4D-8929-9CA2B13C4FCB@microsoft.com...

> Well, as long as the OP has a hard drive with less than 137 gigabytes for

> 98

> S.E. then Teflon should be fine. I have heard a controller card can allow

> the OP to get around this barrier but I have not tried it myself.

>

> "Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

>

>> 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then again,

>> sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want one that's

>> fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo supporting large

>> drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of incompatibility can be

>> EXTREMELY frustrating.

>>

>> 2. Outside of using BING, he has no imaging app that will likely run on

>> the

>> 98 machine, whether it's run from Windows or run from a bootable CD.

>>

>> My ideal solution would be another HD (one that's large enough to hold

>> images of C: and D:) and BING. Partition letters don't enter into the

>> equation, since the machine never needs to be booted with the disk

>> connected. But Teflon sounds like he has a decent plan, already.

>>

>> --

>> Gary S. Terhune

>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>> http://www.grystmill.com

>>

>> "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

>> news:%23AL0YGp4HHA.5852@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> > "Teflon" <spambaitmeister@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> > news:1187537643.175079.269170@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com

>> > | On Aug 18, 9:56 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

>> > |> Same applies to Ghost (more so -- I doubt any recent version of

>> > |> Ghost will run on Win98, period.) Maybe OP already has a legacy

>> > |> copy. However, OP is using a newer XP machine to do the task. If the

>> > |> imaging app needs to run on the Win98 machine, then I'd recommend

>> > |> BootIt NG.

>> > |

>> > | Being referred to as OP always makes me think I'm Ron Howard on

>> > | Mayberry RFD with Andy Griffith (don't I wish).

>> > |

>> > | Anyway, thanks for your input. I'm not going to try running Ghost or

>> > | True Image on the 98FE machine. Since the machine only has a CD ROM

>> > | drive, and I can't connect an external HDD or DVD burner to that

>> > | machine, plus the partitioned internal HDD's D: drive is full, the

>> > | only option I saw to get an 'image / clone' (always got those two

>> > | confused) of the C: drive was to remove it and use my XP machine's

>> > | more robust facilities to create that image for backup (fall-back)

>> > | purposes.

>> >

>> > Are C:\ & D:\ two partitions on a single master HDD on the Primary IDE

>> > connector of the motherboard in the 98FE machine? And is the CD drive

>> > connected as a master on the Secondary IDE connector of the

>> > motherboard?

>> > That's the setup I had! So... a second option is to connect a second

>> > HDD

>> > as a slave to the first & cut the XP-machine out of the picture

>> > altogether! I have a master on how to do that! Probably, when done,

>> > your

>> > D:partition will become E:partition, if you elect to keep the second

>> > HDD

>> > permanently installed.

>> >

>> > | I do have both Ghost and True Image, so will try both to create an

>> > | image on the external HDD, then burn them to DVD. Will have to

>> > | transfer to several CD's if I do need to fall-back, since the 98

>> > | machine only has CD ROM and floppy drives. Would multiple CD's be a

>> > | problem?

>> > |

>> > | Thanks again for your comments and suggestions.

>> > |

>> > | One other question, could I install SE over FE and save the effort of

>> > | reapplying all the MS fixes and reinstalling all the apps? Probably

>> > | not, or someone probably would have suggested that.

>> > |

>> > | Some may consider that to be a really dumb question, but I've found

>> > | the only really dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

>> >

>> > --

>> > Thanks or Good Luck,

>> > There may be humor in this post, and,

>> > Naturally, you will not sue,

>> > Should things get worse after this,

>> > PCR

>> > pcrrcp@netzero.net

>> >

>>

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

Dan wrote:

> I have heard a controller card can allow the OP to get around

> this barrier but I have not tried it myself.

Win-98 works fine on a 500 gb SATA hard drive (the largest drive I've

tried so far).

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

They don't make Econolines anymore??

--

HTH,

Curt

Windows Support Center

Practically Nerded,...

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:u7tS0Bt4HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| XP has three possible settings. Hide Hidden files, show Hidden files, and

| show "super-hidden" files (Protected Operating System files). I leave that

| last turned of because it makes a lot of things more inconvenient. They

| often can't be moved or deleted and that makes mass file operations a

pain..

|

| As for XP vs 9x, or the prospects of a new 9x... You realize that you're

| beating a dead horse, right? Ain't never going to happen unless MS for

some

| reason gives away the patent on the 9x kernel and someone else does it.

| Writing endless paragraphs about it is not going to change the facts (and

| will prompt me to start ignoring your posts again). You could bury MS in

| suggestion/complaint letters and it still would never happen. It's like

| asking Ford to bring back the Econoline. Never going to happen. Get over

it.

|

| --

| Gary S. Terhune

| MS-MVP Shell/User

|

| "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

| news:095127BA-8FAF-4D3F-8095-CC4D1D45A0C9@microsoft.com...

| > The question that I ask is if you reveal all files in XP Professional

does

| > it

| > really reveal all the files or still keep some secret. I have heard

with

| > 98SE when you reveal all the files then it actually reveals them. I

still

| > see 98SE and the 9x source code as being the superior source code in

terms

| > of

| > compatibility and working with APS has shown me how APS still needs and

| > uses

| > old 98SE computers for all of their older software that has cost too

much

| > to

| > get rid of. Now if Microsoft would only listen to me and realize they

| > made a

| > mistake by elimating the 9x line then maybe things would be better. I

am

| > now

| > using Millenium at work and it is not terrible. It is stupid that

| > Microsoft

| > removed the easy access to MS-DOS from Millenium. In addition, some of

| > the

| > tabing issues and style issues of ME irritate me. I may just have to

| > format

| > the ME machine and install 98 Second Edition on it. I already have some

| > valid and legal copies of 98 Second Edition and could always buy more on

| > Ebay

| > if it becomes necessary. Heck, I think 98 SE still has some life in it

| > left

| > despite the fact that support was elimated by Microsoft on July 11,

2006.

| > 98SE is still a killer operating system in my opinion and the best

| > operating

| > system Microsoft has to offer. XP Professional would be my second

choice

| > after 98SE with Microsoft operating systems.

| >

| > "PCR" wrote:

| >

| >> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

| >> news:e0G$qTp4HHA.5804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

| >> | 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then

| >> | again, sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want

| >> | one that's fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo

| >> | supporting large drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of

| >> | incompatibility can be EXTREMELY frustrating.

| >>

| >> Understood. Still, Teflon may as well face those issues now-- & not

wait

| >> for the day an HDD crash puts his head through the ceiling!

| >>

| >> | 2. Outside of using BING, he has no imaging app that will likely run

| >> | on the 98 machine, whether it's run from Windows or run from a

| >> | bootable CD.

| >>

| >> BING is good enough for it, then...

| >>

| >> http://www.bootitng.com/ 's BootIt NG, has a variety of backup

| >> capabilities & works with all OS: Copy partition(s) to HDD, or Image to

| >> HDD or to CD or DVD. Create, move, shrink or expand partitions without

| >> data loss. Multi-boot too. To install & use beyond 30 days, $34.95.

| >>

| >> | My ideal solution would be another HD (one that's large enough to

hold

| >> | images of C: and D:) and BING. Partition letters don't enter into the

| >> | equation, since the machine never needs to be booted with the disk

| >> | connected. But Teflon sounds like he has a decent plan, already.

| >>

| >> I guess his plan is a good one, except he'll need that 2nd HDD some day

| >> anyhow. And there is the caveat you did bring up about booting XP & the

| >> secret folders it may create.

| >>

| >> | --

| >> | Gary S. Terhune

| >> | MS-MVP Shell/User

| >> | http://www.grystmill.com

| >> |

| >> | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

| >> | news:%23AL0YGp4HHA.5852@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| >> |> "Teflon" <spambaitmeister@gmail.com> wrote in message

| >> |> news:1187537643.175079.269170@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com

| >> |> | On Aug 18, 9:56 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

| >> |> |> Same applies to Ghost (more so -- I doubt any recent version of

| >> |> |> Ghost will run on Win98, period.) Maybe OP already has a legacy

| >> |> |> copy. However, OP is using a newer XP machine to do the task. If

| >> |> |> the imaging app needs to run on the Win98 machine, then I'd

| >> |> |> recommend BootIt NG.

| >> |> |

| >> |> | Being referred to as OP always makes me think I'm Ron Howard on

| >> |> | Mayberry RFD with Andy Griffith (don't I wish).

| >> |> |

| >> |> | Anyway, thanks for your input. I'm not going to try running Ghost

| >> |> | or True Image on the 98FE machine. Since the machine only has a CD

| >> |> | ROM drive, and I can't connect an external HDD or DVD burner to

| >> |> | that machine, plus the partitioned internal HDD's D: drive is

| >> |> | full, the only option I saw to get an 'image / clone' (always got

| >> |> | those two confused) of the C: drive was to remove it and use my XP

| >> |> | machine's more robust facilities to create that image for backup

| >> |> | (fall-back) purposes.

| >> |>

| >> |> Are C:\ & D:\ two partitions on a single master HDD on the Primary

| >> |> IDE connector of the motherboard in the 98FE machine? And is the CD

| >> |> drive connected as a master on the Secondary IDE connector of the

| >> |> motherboard? That's the setup I had! So... a second option is to

| >> |> connect a second HDD as a slave to the first & cut the XP-machine

| >> |> out of the picture altogether! I have a master on how to do that!

| >> |> Probably, when done, your D:partition will become E:partition, if

| >> |> you elect to keep the second HDD permanently installed.

| >> |>

| >> |> | I do have both Ghost and True Image, so will try both to create an

| >> |> | image on the external HDD, then burn them to DVD. Will have to

| >> |> | transfer to several CD's if I do need to fall-back, since the 98

| >> |> | machine only has CD ROM and floppy drives. Would multiple CD's be

| >> |> | a problem?

| >> |> |

| >> |> | Thanks again for your comments and suggestions.

| >> |> |

| >> |> | One other question, could I install SE over FE and save the effort

| >> |> | of reapplying all the MS fixes and reinstalling all the apps?

| >> |> | Probably not, or someone probably would have suggested that.

| >> |> |

| >> |> | Some may consider that to be a really dumb question, but I've

found

| >> |> | the only really dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

| >> |>

| >> |> --

| >> |> Thanks or Good Luck,

| >> |> There may be humor in this post, and,

| >> |> Naturally, you will not sue,

| >> |> Should things get worse after this,

| >> |> PCR

| >> |> pcrrcp@netzero.net

| >>

| >> --

| >> Thanks or Good Luck,

| >> There may be humor in this post, and,

| >> Naturally, you will not sue,

| >> Should things get worse after this,

| >> PCR

| >> pcrrcp@netzero.net

| >>

|

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

Oh yeah...BTDT. I'm actually surprised I managed to live through it.

--

HTH,

Curt

Windows Support Center

Practically Nerded,...

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:eAsN88s4HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| You two, eh? I started them with a broken first marriage and no prospects

of

| seeing my daughter again soon, and ended them with my third wife and two

| more kids

|

| --

| Gary S. Terhune

| MS-MVP Shell/User

|

| "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

| news:eqJoZps4HHA.3940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

| >I don't remember too much from the 1980's Dan. I think I was in the

midst

| > of a decade-long blackout.

|

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

Curt Christianson wrote:

> They don't make Econolines anymore??

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

> | It's like asking Ford to bring back the Econoline. Never going

> | to happen. Get over it.

When a 1970 Hemi Cuda goes for over $300k at a Barrett Jackson

auction, I bet Chrysler would love to churn out a few more of those...

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

I'm downright astounded I made it through (of course, the 70s and 90s

weren't much different.) I'm paying for it now, though, in spades!

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

> http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:eCbvpJt4HHA.464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Oh yeah...BTDT. I'm actually surprised I managed to live through it.

>

> --

> HTH,

> Curt

>

> Windows Support Center

> http://www.aumha.org

> Practically Nerded,...

>

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> news:eAsN88s4HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> | You two, eh? I started them with a broken first marriage and no

> prospects

> of

> | seeing my daughter again soon, and ended them with my third wife and two

> | more kids

> |

> | --

> | Gary S. Terhune

> | MS-MVP Shell/User

> |

> | "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

> | news:eqJoZps4HHA.3940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> | >I don't remember too much from the 1980's Dan. I think I was in the

> midst

> | > of a decade-long blackout.

> |

>

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

Yeah, they just changed the name. They are now the E-Series. Bad example.

How about the Ranch Wagon, <g>? We called mine "The Tank".

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

> http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:u4X1IIt4HHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> They don't make Econolines anymore??

>

> --

> HTH,

> Curt

>

> Windows Support Center

> http://www.aumha.org

> Practically Nerded,...

>

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> news:u7tS0Bt4HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> | XP has three possible settings. Hide Hidden files, show Hidden files,

> and

> | show "super-hidden" files (Protected Operating System files). I leave

> that

> | last turned of because it makes a lot of things more inconvenient. They

> | often can't be moved or deleted and that makes mass file operations a

> pain..

> |

> | As for XP vs 9x, or the prospects of a new 9x... You realize that you're

> | beating a dead horse, right? Ain't never going to happen unless MS for

> some

> | reason gives away the patent on the 9x kernel and someone else does it.

> | Writing endless paragraphs about it is not going to change the facts

> (and

> | will prompt me to start ignoring your posts again). You could bury MS in

> | suggestion/complaint letters and it still would never happen. It's like

> | asking Ford to bring back the Econoline. Never going to happen. Get over

> it.

> |

> | --

> | Gary S. Terhune

> | MS-MVP Shell/User

> http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

> |

> | "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> | news:095127BA-8FAF-4D3F-8095-CC4D1D45A0C9@microsoft.com...

> | > The question that I ask is if you reveal all files in XP Professional

> does

> | > it

> | > really reveal all the files or still keep some secret. I have heard

> with

> | > 98SE when you reveal all the files then it actually reveals them. I

> still

> | > see 98SE and the 9x source code as being the superior source code in

> terms

> | > of

> | > compatibility and working with APS has shown me how APS still needs

> and

> | > uses

> | > old 98SE computers for all of their older software that has cost too

> much

> | > to

> | > get rid of. Now if Microsoft would only listen to me and realize they

> | > made a

> | > mistake by elimating the 9x line then maybe things would be better. I

> am

> | > now

> | > using Millenium at work and it is not terrible. It is stupid that

> | > Microsoft

> | > removed the easy access to MS-DOS from Millenium. In addition, some

> of

> | > the

> | > tabing issues and style issues of ME irritate me. I may just have to

> | > format

> | > the ME machine and install 98 Second Edition on it. I already have

> some

> | > valid and legal copies of 98 Second Edition and could always buy more

> on

> | > Ebay

> | > if it becomes necessary. Heck, I think 98 SE still has some life in

> it

> | > left

> | > despite the fact that support was elimated by Microsoft on July 11,

> 2006.

> | > 98SE is still a killer operating system in my opinion and the best

> | > operating

> | > system Microsoft has to offer. XP Professional would be my second

> choice

> | > after 98SE with Microsoft operating systems.

> | >

> | > "PCR" wrote:

> | >

> | >> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> | >> news:e0G$qTp4HHA.5804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

> | >> | 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then

> | >> | again, sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want

> | >> | one that's fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo

> | >> | supporting large drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of

> | >> | incompatibility can be EXTREMELY frustrating.

> | >>

> | >> Understood. Still, Teflon may as well face those issues now-- & not

> wait

> | >> for the day an HDD crash puts his head through the ceiling!

> | >>

> | >> | 2. Outside of using BING, he has no imaging app that will likely

> run

> | >> | on the 98 machine, whether it's run from Windows or run from a

> | >> | bootable CD.

> | >>

> | >> BING is good enough for it, then...

> | >>

> | >> http://www.bootitng.com/ 's BootIt NG, has a variety of backup

> | >> capabilities & works with all OS: Copy partition(s) to HDD, or Image

> to

> | >> HDD or to CD or DVD. Create, move, shrink or expand partitions

> without

> | >> data loss. Multi-boot too. To install & use beyond 30 days, $34.95.

> | >>

> | >> | My ideal solution would be another HD (one that's large enough to

> hold

> | >> | images of C: and D:) and BING. Partition letters don't enter into

> the

> | >> | equation, since the machine never needs to be booted with the disk

> | >> | connected. But Teflon sounds like he has a decent plan, already.

> | >>

> | >> I guess his plan is a good one, except he'll need that 2nd HDD some

> day

> | >> anyhow. And there is the caveat you did bring up about booting XP &

> the

> | >> secret folders it may create.

> | >>

> | >> | --

> | >> | Gary S. Terhune

> | >> | MS-MVP Shell/User

> | >> | http://www.grystmill.com

> | >> |

> | >> | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

> | >> | news:%23AL0YGp4HHA.5852@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> | >> |> "Teflon" <spambaitmeister@gmail.com> wrote in message

> | >> |> news:1187537643.175079.269170@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com

> | >> |> | On Aug 18, 9:56 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

> | >> |> |> Same applies to Ghost (more so -- I doubt any recent version of

> | >> |> |> Ghost will run on Win98, period.) Maybe OP already has a legacy

> | >> |> |> copy. However, OP is using a newer XP machine to do the task.

> If

> | >> |> |> the imaging app needs to run on the Win98 machine, then I'd

> | >> |> |> recommend BootIt NG.

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | Being referred to as OP always makes me think I'm Ron Howard on

> | >> |> | Mayberry RFD with Andy Griffith (don't I wish).

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | Anyway, thanks for your input. I'm not going to try running

> Ghost

> | >> |> | or True Image on the 98FE machine. Since the machine only has a

> CD

> | >> |> | ROM drive, and I can't connect an external HDD or DVD burner to

> | >> |> | that machine, plus the partitioned internal HDD's D: drive is

> | >> |> | full, the only option I saw to get an 'image / clone' (always

> got

> | >> |> | those two confused) of the C: drive was to remove it and use my

> XP

> | >> |> | machine's more robust facilities to create that image for backup

> | >> |> | (fall-back) purposes.

> | >> |>

> | >> |> Are C:\ & D:\ two partitions on a single master HDD on the Primary

> | >> |> IDE connector of the motherboard in the 98FE machine? And is the

> CD

> | >> |> drive connected as a master on the Secondary IDE connector of the

> | >> |> motherboard? That's the setup I had! So... a second option is to

> | >> |> connect a second HDD as a slave to the first & cut the XP-machine

> | >> |> out of the picture altogether! I have a master on how to do that!

> | >> |> Probably, when done, your D:partition will become E:partition, if

> | >> |> you elect to keep the second HDD permanently installed.

> | >> |>

> | >> |> | I do have both Ghost and True Image, so will try both to create

> an

> | >> |> | image on the external HDD, then burn them to DVD. Will have to

> | >> |> | transfer to several CD's if I do need to fall-back, since the 98

> | >> |> | machine only has CD ROM and floppy drives. Would multiple CD's

> be

> | >> |> | a problem?

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | Thanks again for your comments and suggestions.

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | One other question, could I install SE over FE and save the

> effort

> | >> |> | of reapplying all the MS fixes and reinstalling all the apps?

> | >> |> | Probably not, or someone probably would have suggested that.

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | Some may consider that to be a really dumb question, but I've

> found

> | >> |> | the only really dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

> | >> |>

> | >> |> --

> | >> |> Thanks or Good Luck,

> | >> |> There may be humor in this post, and,

> | >> |> Naturally, you will not sue,

> | >> |> Should things get worse after this,

> | >> |> PCR

> | >> |> pcrrcp@netzero.net

> | >>

> | >> --

> | >> Thanks or Good Luck,

> | >> There may be humor in this post, and,

> | >> Naturally, you will not sue,

> | >> Should things get worse after this,

> | >> PCR

> | >> pcrrcp@netzero.net

> | >>

> |

>

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

"Teflon" <spambaitmeister@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1187459724.767084.121890@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> While I would like the USB and other upgraded support options of SE, I

> have been putting off upgrading to SE on an older laptop, because, 1.)

> the FE config is running great & 2.) if anything goes wrong with the

> upgrade, I don't look forward to reinstalling FE with all the fixes.

>

> I don't have an external HDD or a CD burner on the system, so I came

> up with this plan to clone the C: drive:

>

> Remove the HDD from the laptop and install it in a USB external

> enclosure.

>

> Connect the enclosure to my XP system.

>

> Run Ghost to clone the C: drive to an external HDD attached to the XP

> system.

>

> Reinstall HDD in laptop.

>

> Clean install of SE.

>

> I would appreciate knowing if this is doable, if there are any

> 'gotchas' waiting for me along this path, and if there are any other

> helpful hints and advice from the experts that will help me make sure

> I have a clone that can be reloaded by reversing the process and

> restore FE.

>

> Thanks in advance for your time.

>

> Pointing me to relevent info would also be appreciated.

>

If I were in your shoes, I would be using 2 different 3rd party tools.

Partition Magic 5.0 or greater on floppy, and DriveImage 6.0/2002 on floppy.

Am assuming you have a floppy drive. PM to shrink the 98 partition for some

free space to create another partition. DI to create an image of 98

partition to the new partition as an image file. Wish I could send both to

you... your plans would be so much easier.

Dave

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

No, but I did a topless/ragtop model 2008 T-bird the other day. Even had

the opera windows in the rear sides. Awesome.

Dave

"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:u4X1IIt4HHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> They don't make Econolines anymore??

>

> --

> HTH,

> Curt

>

> Windows Support Center

> http://www.aumha.org

> Practically Nerded,...

>

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> news:u7tS0Bt4HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> | XP has three possible settings. Hide Hidden files, show Hidden files,

> and

> | show "super-hidden" files (Protected Operating System files). I leave

> that

> | last turned of because it makes a lot of things more inconvenient. They

> | often can't be moved or deleted and that makes mass file operations a

> pain..

> |

> | As for XP vs 9x, or the prospects of a new 9x... You realize that you're

> | beating a dead horse, right? Ain't never going to happen unless MS for

> some

> | reason gives away the patent on the 9x kernel and someone else does it.

> | Writing endless paragraphs about it is not going to change the facts

> (and

> | will prompt me to start ignoring your posts again). You could bury MS in

> | suggestion/complaint letters and it still would never happen. It's like

> | asking Ford to bring back the Econoline. Never going to happen. Get over

> it.

> |

> | --

> | Gary S. Terhune

> | MS-MVP Shell/User

> |

> | "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> | news:095127BA-8FAF-4D3F-8095-CC4D1D45A0C9@microsoft.com...

> | > The question that I ask is if you reveal all files in XP Professional

> does

> | > it

> | > really reveal all the files or still keep some secret. I have heard

> with

> | > 98SE when you reveal all the files then it actually reveals them. I

> still

> | > see 98SE and the 9x source code as being the superior source code in

> terms

> | > of

> | > compatibility and working with APS has shown me how APS still needs

> and

> | > uses

> | > old 98SE computers for all of their older software that has cost too

> much

> | > to

> | > get rid of. Now if Microsoft would only listen to me and realize they

> | > made a

> | > mistake by elimating the 9x line then maybe things would be better. I

> am

> | > now

> | > using Millenium at work and it is not terrible. It is stupid that

> | > Microsoft

> | > removed the easy access to MS-DOS from Millenium. In addition, some

> of

> | > the

> | > tabing issues and style issues of ME irritate me. I may just have to

> | > format

> | > the ME machine and install 98 Second Edition on it. I already have

> some

> | > valid and legal copies of 98 Second Edition and could always buy more

> on

> | > Ebay

> | > if it becomes necessary. Heck, I think 98 SE still has some life in

> it

> | > left

> | > despite the fact that support was elimated by Microsoft on July 11,

> 2006.

> | > 98SE is still a killer operating system in my opinion and the best

> | > operating

> | > system Microsoft has to offer. XP Professional would be my second

> choice

> | > after 98SE with Microsoft operating systems.

> | >

> | > "PCR" wrote:

> | >

> | >> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> | >> news:e0G$qTp4HHA.5804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

> | >> | 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then

> | >> | again, sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want

> | >> | one that's fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo

> | >> | supporting large drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of

> | >> | incompatibility can be EXTREMELY frustrating.

> | >>

> | >> Understood. Still, Teflon may as well face those issues now-- & not

> wait

> | >> for the day an HDD crash puts his head through the ceiling!

> | >>

> | >> | 2. Outside of using BING, he has no imaging app that will likely

> run

> | >> | on the 98 machine, whether it's run from Windows or run from a

> | >> | bootable CD.

> | >>

> | >> BING is good enough for it, then...

> | >>

> | >> http://www.bootitng.com/ 's BootIt NG, has a variety of backup

> | >> capabilities & works with all OS: Copy partition(s) to HDD, or Image

> to

> | >> HDD or to CD or DVD. Create, move, shrink or expand partitions

> without

> | >> data loss. Multi-boot too. To install & use beyond 30 days, $34.95.

> | >>

> | >> | My ideal solution would be another HD (one that's large enough to

> hold

> | >> | images of C: and D:) and BING. Partition letters don't enter into

> the

> | >> | equation, since the machine never needs to be booted with the disk

> | >> | connected. But Teflon sounds like he has a decent plan, already.

> | >>

> | >> I guess his plan is a good one, except he'll need that 2nd HDD some

> day

> | >> anyhow. And there is the caveat you did bring up about booting XP &

> the

> | >> secret folders it may create.

> | >>

> | >> | --

> | >> | Gary S. Terhune

> | >> | MS-MVP Shell/User

> | >> | http://www.grystmill.com

> | >> |

> | >> | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

> | >> | news:%23AL0YGp4HHA.5852@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> | >> |> "Teflon" <spambaitmeister@gmail.com> wrote in message

> | >> |> news:1187537643.175079.269170@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com

> | >> |> | On Aug 18, 9:56 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

> | >> |> |> Same applies to Ghost (more so -- I doubt any recent version of

> | >> |> |> Ghost will run on Win98, period.) Maybe OP already has a legacy

> | >> |> |> copy. However, OP is using a newer XP machine to do the task.

> If

> | >> |> |> the imaging app needs to run on the Win98 machine, then I'd

> | >> |> |> recommend BootIt NG.

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | Being referred to as OP always makes me think I'm Ron Howard on

> | >> |> | Mayberry RFD with Andy Griffith (don't I wish).

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | Anyway, thanks for your input. I'm not going to try running

> Ghost

> | >> |> | or True Image on the 98FE machine. Since the machine only has a

> CD

> | >> |> | ROM drive, and I can't connect an external HDD or DVD burner to

> | >> |> | that machine, plus the partitioned internal HDD's D: drive is

> | >> |> | full, the only option I saw to get an 'image / clone' (always

> got

> | >> |> | those two confused) of the C: drive was to remove it and use my

> XP

> | >> |> | machine's more robust facilities to create that image for backup

> | >> |> | (fall-back) purposes.

> | >> |>

> | >> |> Are C:\ & D:\ two partitions on a single master HDD on the Primary

> | >> |> IDE connector of the motherboard in the 98FE machine? And is the

> CD

> | >> |> drive connected as a master on the Secondary IDE connector of the

> | >> |> motherboard? That's the setup I had! So... a second option is to

> | >> |> connect a second HDD as a slave to the first & cut the XP-machine

> | >> |> out of the picture altogether! I have a master on how to do that!

> | >> |> Probably, when done, your D:partition will become E:partition, if

> | >> |> you elect to keep the second HDD permanently installed.

> | >> |>

> | >> |> | I do have both Ghost and True Image, so will try both to create

> an

> | >> |> | image on the external HDD, then burn them to DVD. Will have to

> | >> |> | transfer to several CD's if I do need to fall-back, since the 98

> | >> |> | machine only has CD ROM and floppy drives. Would multiple CD's

> be

> | >> |> | a problem?

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | Thanks again for your comments and suggestions.

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | One other question, could I install SE over FE and save the

> effort

> | >> |> | of reapplying all the MS fixes and reinstalling all the apps?

> | >> |> | Probably not, or someone probably would have suggested that.

> | >> |> |

> | >> |> | Some may consider that to be a really dumb question, but I've

> found

> | >> |> | the only really dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

> | >> |>

> | >> |> --

> | >> |> Thanks or Good Luck,

> | >> |> There may be humor in this post, and,

> | >> |> Naturally, you will not sue,

> | >> |> Should things get worse after this,

> | >> |> PCR

> | >> |> pcrrcp@netzero.net

> | >>

> | >> --

> | >> Thanks or Good Luck,

> | >> There may be humor in this post, and,

> | >> Naturally, you will not sue,

> | >> Should things get worse after this,

> | >> PCR

> | >> pcrrcp@netzero.net

> | >>

> |

>

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:46C8FBAE.71CC068E@Guy.com...

> Dan wrote:

>

>> I have heard a controller card can allow the OP to get around

>> this barrier but I have not tried it myself.

>

> Win-98 works fine on a 500 gb SATA hard drive (the largest drive I've

> tried so far).

Got Millenium and 98SE on a 250GB SATA hard drive. The tricky part was

getting a pre-XP era boot manager version of system commander to work on it.

Dave

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

I hear ya Gary. I was just thinking I'll bet my ex-wife was glad she bailed

when she did!!

--

HTH,

Curt

Windows Support Center

Practically Nerded,...

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:%23H$xfUt4HHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

| I'm downright astounded I made it through (of course, the 70s and 90s

| weren't much different.) I'm paying for it now, though, in spades!

|

| --

| Gary S. Terhune

| MS-MVP Shell/User

|

| "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

| news:eCbvpJt4HHA.464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| > Oh yeah...BTDT. I'm actually surprised I managed to live through it.

| >

| > --

| > HTH,

| > Curt

| >

| > Windows Support Center

| > http://www.aumha.org

| > Practically Nerded,...

| > http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

| >

| > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

| > news:eAsN88s4HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| > | You two, eh? I started them with a broken first marriage and no

| > prospects

| > of

| > | seeing my daughter again soon, and ended them with my third wife and

two

| > | more kids

| > |

| > | --

| > | Gary S. Terhune

| > | MS-MVP Shell/User

| > | http://www.grystmill.com

| > |

| > | "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

| > | news:eqJoZps4HHA.3940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

| > | >I don't remember too much from the 1980's Dan. I think I was in the

| > midst

| > | > of a decade-long blackout.

| > |

| >

|

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

LOL. Good hearing from you Dave--long time since I've talked to you.

--

HTH,

Curt

Windows Support Center

Practically Nerded,...

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message

news:OUySjft4HHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

| No, but I did a topless/ragtop model 2008 T-bird the other day. Even had

| the opera windows in the rear sides. Awesome.

| Dave

|

| "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

| news:u4X1IIt4HHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

| > They don't make Econolines anymore??

| >

| > --

| > HTH,

| > Curt

| >

| > Windows Support Center

| > http://www.aumha.org

| > Practically Nerded,...

| > http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

| >

| > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

| > news:u7tS0Bt4HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| > | XP has three possible settings. Hide Hidden files, show Hidden files,

| > and

| > | show "super-hidden" files (Protected Operating System files). I leave

| > that

| > | last turned of because it makes a lot of things more inconvenient.

They

| > | often can't be moved or deleted and that makes mass file operations a

| > pain..

| > |

| > | As for XP vs 9x, or the prospects of a new 9x... You realize that

you're

| > | beating a dead horse, right? Ain't never going to happen unless MS for

| > some

| > | reason gives away the patent on the 9x kernel and someone else does

it.

| > | Writing endless paragraphs about it is not going to change the facts

| > (and

| > | will prompt me to start ignoring your posts again). You could bury MS

in

| > | suggestion/complaint letters and it still would never happen. It's

like

| > | asking Ford to bring back the Econoline. Never going to happen. Get

over

| > it.

| > |

| > | --

| > | Gary S. Terhune

| > | MS-MVP Shell/User

| > | http://www.grystmill.com

| > |

| > | "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

| > | news:095127BA-8FAF-4D3F-8095-CC4D1D45A0C9@microsoft.com...

| > | > The question that I ask is if you reveal all files in XP

Professional

| > does

| > | > it

| > | > really reveal all the files or still keep some secret. I have heard

| > with

| > | > 98SE when you reveal all the files then it actually reveals them. I

| > still

| > | > see 98SE and the 9x source code as being the superior source code in

| > terms

| > | > of

| > | > compatibility and working with APS has shown me how APS still needs

| > and

| > | > uses

| > | > old 98SE computers for all of their older software that has cost too

| > much

| > | > to

| > | > get rid of. Now if Microsoft would only listen to me and realize

they

| > | > made a

| > | > mistake by elimating the 9x line then maybe things would be better.

I

| > am

| > | > now

| > | > using Millenium at work and it is not terrible. It is stupid that

| > | > Microsoft

| > | > removed the easy access to MS-DOS from Millenium. In addition, some

| > of

| > | > the

| > | > tabing issues and style issues of ME irritate me. I may just have

to

| > | > format

| > | > the ME machine and install 98 Second Edition on it. I already have

| > some

| > | > valid and legal copies of 98 Second Edition and could always buy

more

| > on

| > | > Ebay

| > | > if it becomes necessary. Heck, I think 98 SE still has some life in

| > it

| > | > left

| > | > despite the fact that support was elimated by Microsoft on July 11,

| > 2006.

| > | > 98SE is still a killer operating system in my opinion and the best

| > | > operating

| > | > system Microsoft has to offer. XP Professional would be my second

| > choice

| > | > after 98SE with Microsoft operating systems.

| > | >

| > | > "PCR" wrote:

| > | >

| > | >> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

| > | >> news:e0G$qTp4HHA.5804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

| > | >> | 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD.

Then

| > | >> | again, sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd

want

| > | >> | one that's fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo

| > | >> | supporting large drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of

| > | >> | incompatibility can be EXTREMELY frustrating.

| > | >>

| > | >> Understood. Still, Teflon may as well face those issues now-- & not

| > wait

| > | >> for the day an HDD crash puts his head through the ceiling!

| > | >>

| > | >> | 2. Outside of using BING, he has no imaging app that will likely

| > run

| > | >> | on the 98 machine, whether it's run from Windows or run from a

| > | >> | bootable CD.

| > | >>

| > | >> BING is good enough for it, then...

| > | >>

| > | >> http://www.bootitng.com/ 's BootIt NG, has a variety of backup

| > | >> capabilities & works with all OS: Copy partition(s) to HDD, or

Image

| > to

| > | >> HDD or to CD or DVD. Create, move, shrink or expand partitions

| > without

| > | >> data loss. Multi-boot too. To install & use beyond 30 days, $34.95.

| > | >>

| > | >> | My ideal solution would be another HD (one that's large enough to

| > hold

| > | >> | images of C: and D:) and BING. Partition letters don't enter into

| > the

| > | >> | equation, since the machine never needs to be booted with the

disk

| > | >> | connected. But Teflon sounds like he has a decent plan, already.

| > | >>

| > | >> I guess his plan is a good one, except he'll need that 2nd HDD some

| > day

| > | >> anyhow. And there is the caveat you did bring up about booting XP &

| > the

| > | >> secret folders it may create.

| > | >>

| > | >> | --

| > | >> | Gary S. Terhune

| > | >> | MS-MVP Shell/User

| > | >> | http://www.grystmill.com

| > | >> |

| > | >> | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

| > | >> | news:%23AL0YGp4HHA.5852@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| > | >> |> "Teflon" <spambaitmeister@gmail.com> wrote in message

| > | >> |> news:1187537643.175079.269170@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com

| > | >> |> | On Aug 18, 9:56 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

| > | >> |> |> Same applies to Ghost (more so -- I doubt any recent version

of

| > | >> |> |> Ghost will run on Win98, period.) Maybe OP already has a

legacy

| > | >> |> |> copy. However, OP is using a newer XP machine to do the task.

| > If

| > | >> |> |> the imaging app needs to run on the Win98 machine, then I'd

| > | >> |> |> recommend BootIt NG.

| > | >> |> |

| > | >> |> | Being referred to as OP always makes me think I'm Ron Howard

on

| > | >> |> | Mayberry RFD with Andy Griffith (don't I wish).

| > | >> |> |

| > | >> |> | Anyway, thanks for your input. I'm not going to try running

| > Ghost

| > | >> |> | or True Image on the 98FE machine. Since the machine only has

a

| > CD

| > | >> |> | ROM drive, and I can't connect an external HDD or DVD burner

to

| > | >> |> | that machine, plus the partitioned internal HDD's D: drive is

| > | >> |> | full, the only option I saw to get an 'image / clone' (always

| > got

| > | >> |> | those two confused) of the C: drive was to remove it and use

my

| > XP

| > | >> |> | machine's more robust facilities to create that image for

backup

| > | >> |> | (fall-back) purposes.

| > | >> |>

| > | >> |> Are C:\ & D:\ two partitions on a single master HDD on the

Primary

| > | >> |> IDE connector of the motherboard in the 98FE machine? And is the

| > CD

| > | >> |> drive connected as a master on the Secondary IDE connector of

the

| > | >> |> motherboard? That's the setup I had! So... a second option is to

| > | >> |> connect a second HDD as a slave to the first & cut the

XP-machine

| > | >> |> out of the picture altogether! I have a master on how to do

that!

| > | >> |> Probably, when done, your D:partition will become E:partition,

if

| > | >> |> you elect to keep the second HDD permanently installed.

| > | >> |>

| > | >> |> | I do have both Ghost and True Image, so will try both to

create

| > an

| > | >> |> | image on the external HDD, then burn them to DVD. Will have

to

| > | >> |> | transfer to several CD's if I do need to fall-back, since the

98

| > | >> |> | machine only has CD ROM and floppy drives. Would multiple

CD's

| > be

| > | >> |> | a problem?

| > | >> |> |

| > | >> |> | Thanks again for your comments and suggestions.

| > | >> |> |

| > | >> |> | One other question, could I install SE over FE and save the

| > effort

| > | >> |> | of reapplying all the MS fixes and reinstalling all the apps?

| > | >> |> | Probably not, or someone probably would have suggested that.

| > | >> |> |

| > | >> |> | Some may consider that to be a really dumb question, but I've

| > found

| > | >> |> | the only really dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

| > | >> |>

| > | >> |> --

| > | >> |> Thanks or Good Luck,

| > | >> |> There may be humor in this post, and,

| > | >> |> Naturally, you will not sue,

| > | >> |> Should things get worse after this,

| > | >> |> PCR

| > | >> |> pcrrcp@netzero.net

| > | >>

| > | >> --

| > | >> Thanks or Good Luck,

| > | >> There may be humor in this post, and,

| > | >> Naturally, you will not sue,

| > | >> Should things get worse after this,

| > | >> PCR

| > | >> pcrrcp@netzero.net

| > | >>

| > |

| >

|

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:e0G$qTp4HHA.5804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

| 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then again,

| sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want one that's

| fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo supporting large

| drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of incompatibility can be

| EXTREMELY frustrating.

|

| 2. Outside of using BING, he has no imaging app that will likely run on

the

| 98 machine, whether it's run from Windows or run from a bootable CD.

|

| My ideal solution would be another HD (one that's large enough to hold

| images of C: and D:) and BING. Partition letters don't enter into the

| equation, since the machine never needs to be booted with the disk

| connected. But Teflon sounds like he has a decent plan, already.

|

| --

| Gary S. Terhune

| MS-MVP Shell/User

http://www.partition-saving.com

|

Excuse the interruption, and not following down through the extremely long

thread:

One could also use a free program called partition saving, which also

happens to be its web link

Simple DOS based, saves only the used portions OR whatever portions/elements

you want, Can cut the partition into CDROM sized segments..

The one issue might be the external hard drive used for saving the

partition. Saves the potential issues with XP connection.

Though, with careful usage, one could save parts of the partition, burn to

CDROM, delete those parts freeing space for the main program areas and

system. Then burning those to disk, before doing whatever needs done.

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message news:OuLEMwp4HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> I wouldn't call the GUIs the same, or even similar.

Who even knows what's what, and/or where from?

For instance, the Product Name on Windows 98's EXPLORER.EXE file,

[and on a number of other files also], is

Microsoft® Windows NT® Operating System.

NT itself is an amalgam of code from MANY sources,

including FreeBSD and Digital's VMS.

Most of NT's lead developers, including its chief architect, came from Digital.

So, you could argue that 98 was based on technology developed in the 70's,

and not be too far off the mark, if at all.......

--

"You can fool some of the people all of the time,

and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

For a boot manager, have you tried BootIt NG?

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message

news:%23MFSfht4HHA.464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> "98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:46C8FBAE.71CC068E@Guy.com...

>> Dan wrote:

>>

>>> I have heard a controller card can allow the OP to get around

>>> this barrier but I have not tried it myself.

>>

>> Win-98 works fine on a 500 gb SATA hard drive (the largest drive I've

>> tried so far).

>

> Got Millenium and 98SE on a 250GB SATA hard drive. The tricky part was

> getting a pre-XP era boot manager version of system commander to work on

> it.

> Dave

>

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

Sounds really complicated, MEB, <s>.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:ujDHfYu4HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> news:e0G$qTp4HHA.5804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> | 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then

> again,

> | sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want one that's

> | fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo supporting large

> | drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of incompatibility can be

> | EXTREMELY frustrating.

> |

> | 2. Outside of using BING, he has no imaging app that will likely run on

> the

> | 98 machine, whether it's run from Windows or run from a bootable CD.

> |

> | My ideal solution would be another HD (one that's large enough to hold

> | images of C: and D:) and BING. Partition letters don't enter into the

> | equation, since the machine never needs to be booted with the disk

> | connected. But Teflon sounds like he has a decent plan, already.

> |

> | --

> | Gary S. Terhune

> | MS-MVP Shell/User

> http://www.partition-saving.com

> |

>

> Excuse the interruption, and not following down through the extremely long

> thread:

>

> One could also use a free program called partition saving, which also

> happens to be its web link

> Simple DOS based, saves only the used portions OR whatever

> portions/elements

> you want, Can cut the partition into CDROM sized segments..

>

>

> The one issue might be the external hard drive used for saving the

> partition. Saves the potential issues with XP connection.

>

> Though, with careful usage, one could save parts of the partition, burn to

> CDROM, delete those parts freeing space for the main program areas and

> system. Then burning those to disk, before doing whatever needs done.

>

> --

> MEB

> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

> ________

>

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

ROFL! Sounds like a great philosophy for a politician. Sure works in

America, <g>.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://www.automotivestylings.com/mopar/200x_cuda_front_tb_shaker.htm

"Hugh Candlin" <sure@dream.on> wrote in message

news:%23xTCFku4HHA.3684@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> --

> "You can fool some of the people all of the time,

> and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

--

"You can fool some of the people all of the time,

and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."

"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:46C8FE65.F51458E8@Guy.com...

> Curt Christianson wrote:

>

> > They don't make Econolines anymore??

>

> > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

>

> > | It's like asking Ford to bring back the Econoline. Never going

> > | to happen. Get over it.

>

> When a 1970 Hemi Cuda goes for over $300k at a Barrett Jackson

> auction, I bet Chrysler would love to churn out a few more of those...

Something like this ???

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

I always had a hard time deciding which I liked more... A friend's '67

Challenger or another friend's '63.5 Mustang. Note that we spent most of our

time driving twisty mountain roads with lots of very big cliffs above and

below, pedal to the metal and rear tires almost never sticking except on

straight always longer than ~100 yards.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

> http://www.automotivestylings.com/mopar/200x_cuda_front_tb_shaker.htm

"Hugh Candlin" <sure@dream.on> wrote in message

news:eAT6Pqu4HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>

> --

> "You can fool some of the people all of the time,

> and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."

>

> "98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:46C8FE65.F51458E8@Guy.com...

>> Curt Christianson wrote:

>>

>> > They don't make Econolines anymore??

>>

>> > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

>>

>> > | It's like asking Ford to bring back the Econoline. Never going

>> > | to happen. Get over it.

>>

>> When a 1970 Hemi Cuda goes for over $300k at a Barrett Jackson

>> auction, I bet Chrysler would love to churn out a few more of those...

>

> Something like this ???

>

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

On Aug 19, 12:12 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

> 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then again,

> sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want one that's

> fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo supporting large

> drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of incompatibility can be

> EXTREMELY frustrating.

>

> > Are C:\ & D:\ two partitions on a single master HDD on the Primary IDE

> > connector of the motherboard in the 98FE machine? And is the CD drive

> > connected as a master on the Secondary IDE connector of the motherboard?

> > That's the setup I had! So... a second option is to connect a second HDD

> > as a slave to the first & cut the XP-machine out of the picture

> > altogether! I have a master on how to do that! Probably, when done, your

> > D:partition will become E:partition, if you elect to keep the second HDD

> > permanently installed.

>

Those are both good suggestions, provided this was a desktop machine.

However, it's a lqptop. A very limited laptop. Thought I said that

early on. Sorry if I didn't, or it got buried. Yes, C: & D: are 2 GB

partitions on the one 4 GB HDD.

Being an older laptop, the HDD is buried under the keyboard, so

removing it to make an image isn't the simple loosen one screw and

slide it out, like my XP machine (also a lqptop), but that's the only

solution I could come up with, UNLESS, I could somehow use one of

those Internet-based storage sites as the recipient for the Ghost /

True Image output. Anyone know if that would work?

Interesting MS discussion.

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

I wouldn't trust an internet backup solution. If you had the disk space, you

could make an image and then store that on the internet, but any scheme that

has the backup writing directly to the remote server is almost bound to

fail, and would take a long, long time. It's the slowest and least reliable

of all the solutions thus far, and I don't think either True Image or Ghost

will do the job. Internet backup is a special program that I consider OK for

backing up a few files, but not for an image.

Your laptop has no LAN or USB port? Does it have a serial port? Does your

desktop machine have a serial port? What about LPT ports?

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"Teflon" <spambaitmeister@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1187618687.961616.264920@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> On Aug 19, 12:12 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote:

>> 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then again,

>> sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want one that's

>> fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo supporting large

>> drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of incompatibility can be

>> EXTREMELY frustrating.

>>

>> > Are C:\ & D:\ two partitions on a single master HDD on the Primary IDE

>> > connector of the motherboard in the 98FE machine? And is the CD drive

>> > connected as a master on the Secondary IDE connector of the

>> > motherboard?

>> > That's the setup I had! So... a second option is to connect a second

>> > HDD

>> > as a slave to the first & cut the XP-machine out of the picture

>> > altogether! I have a master on how to do that! Probably, when done,

>> > your

>> > D:partition will become E:partition, if you elect to keep the second

>> > HDD

>> > permanently installed.

>>

>

> Those are both good suggestions, provided this was a desktop machine.

> However, it's a lqptop. A very limited laptop. Thought I said that

> early on. Sorry if I didn't, or it got buried. Yes, C: & D: are 2 GB

> partitions on the one 4 GB HDD.

>

> Being an older laptop, the HDD is buried under the keyboard, so

> removing it to make an image isn't the simple loosen one screw and

> slide it out, like my XP machine (also a lqptop), but that's the only

> solution I could come up with, UNLESS, I could somehow use one of

> those Internet-based storage sites as the recipient for the Ghost /

> True Image output. Anyone know if that would work?

>

> Interesting MS discussion.

>

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:uakuhnu4HHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

| Sounds really complicated, MEB, <s>.

|

| --

| Gary S. Terhune

| MS-MVP Shell/User

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

Ah, not really, its actually rather simple, and easily accomplished. But

then I have done this before with small hard drives on laptops and desktops.

The prog basicly sets up the method for you, assigning consecutive CD

images. Burn them to disk, use the DOS disk [with CDROM support] to boot

after you've done what you need, and put the images back on the disk. When

done run scandisk to reset the disk, boot to Safe Mode just to check the

disk and files, boot normally and its done.

If the second partition contains nothing more than storage, its even

easier. Though even then, one need only save the storage area first, burn it

and then remove it to free space for the actual system files/images.

Remember we have to always consider that others may not have extra disks

just laying around to use, or a networked computer to transfer the files to.

This happens to be a relatively easy way for the normal user to accomplish

the task without extra hardware or the need to purchase some program.

Of course some of the other imaging progs provide the same basic abilities,

but for a free DOS disk ONLY program, partition saving [partsav] seems to

work quite well.

|

| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

| news:ujDHfYu4HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

| >

| > "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

| > news:e0G$qTp4HHA.5804@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

| > | 1. He probably doesn't want the added expense of another HDD. Then

| > again,

| > | sounds like he could use one. Drives are cheap, but I'd want one

that's

| > | fairly small to avoid possible problems with the mobo supporting large

| > | drives. Might be hard to find, and the issues of incompatibility can

be

| > | EXTREMELY frustrating.

| > |

| > | 2. Outside of using BING, he has no imaging app that will likely run

on

| > the

| > | 98 machine, whether it's run from Windows or run from a bootable CD.

| > |

| > | My ideal solution would be another HD (one that's large enough to hold

| > | images of C: and D:) and BING. Partition letters don't enter into the

| > | equation, since the machine never needs to be booted with the disk

| > | connected. But Teflon sounds like he has a decent plan, already.

| > |

| > | --

| > | Gary S. Terhune

| > | MS-MVP Shell/User

| > | http://www.grystmill.com

| > |

| >

| > Excuse the interruption, and not following down through the extremely

long

| > thread:

| >

| > One could also use a free program called partition saving, which also

| > happens to be its web link

| > Simple DOS based, saves only the used portions OR whatever

| > portions/elements

| > you want, Can cut the partition into CDROM sized segments..

| >

| > http://www.partition-saving.com

| >

| > The one issue might be the external hard drive used for saving the

| > partition. Saves the potential issues with XP connection.

| >

| > Though, with careful usage, one could save parts of the partition, burn

to

| > CDROM, delete those parts freeing space for the main program areas and

| > system. Then burning those to disk, before doing whatever needs done.

| >

| > --

| > MEB

| > http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

| > ________

| >

--

MEB

________

August 20, 2007

Re: Cloning Win98FE prior to SE upgrade

OK... Sounds to me like the same thing True Image, Ghost, or even BING are

capable of. They do not include empty clusters in their images unless you

tell them to. (Well, I don't know about Ghost, but that's the case for the

other two.) They can span several CDs or DVDs, as well. You just have to

have a CD (or DVD) burner attached.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:uxnl2e04HHA.5316@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> news:uakuhnu4HHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> | Sounds really complicated, MEB, <s>.

> |

> | --

> | Gary S. Terhune

> | MS-MVP Shell/User