Icon Confusion

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

Bill Blanton wrote:

> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote

>> Even though a reset probably leaves RAM alone I don't see what

>> difference it makes. As I've been telling the Rocky Mountain man.

>> He seems to be worried about malignant code left in RAM executing

>> after a reset but I can't figure a *way* for it to execute (other

>> than the ones I posted elsewhere in this thread). If there is a

>> way, I'd sure like to know how.

>

> From "Ralf Brown's interrupt list".

>

> Located in the BIOS data area stored in volatile RAM.

>

> ----------M00400067--------------------------

> MEM 0040h:0067h - RESET RESTART ADDRESS

> Size: DWORD

> Desc: this address stores the address at which to resume execution

> after a CPU reset (or jump to F000h:FFF0h) when certain magic

> values are stored at 0040h:0072h or in CMOS RAM location 0Fh

Now I know. Thank you *very* much for that and other info.

--

dadiOH

____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

I need to see if I can find that 98 Secrets book again, PCR. It is currently

most likely in storage. I will look when I have an opportunity again.

"PCR" wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:u3TLi1f5HHA.3940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

> | PCR wrote:

> |> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> |> news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

> |>> Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

> |>> There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

> |>>

> |>> 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

> |>

> |> That is a cold boot.

> |>

> |>> 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you don't

> |>> have to press any button to restart.

> |>

> |> This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston

> |> & Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut Down does, but

> |> it doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to restart Windows

> |> 98. It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

> |>

> |> Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

> |> that it is no different from a cold boot.

> |

> | But you're wrong, because it does NOT remove any resident code or

> | data left in memory that could be problematic (in some instances).

> | So it is NOT "identical", per se, by definition.

>

> I'm thinking...

>

> (a) There is the BIOS RAM check, where all of it is written to

> & read from.

> (b) Even without that, all RAM that will be used is over-written

> with fresh code.

>

> | In addition, it is also not identical because the internal hardware

> | (electronics) has not been powered off and then back on again, which

> | could have some relevance for both hardware and software (low level)

> | issues, in some instances).

>

> Somewhere during the boot, all peripheral devices get control to

> over-write their RAM too, I'm thinking. DON'T make me hit you over the

> head with a 1207 page book, Colorado! (It needs a major defrag & an

> index re-work, or, instead, I'd pore through it for the perfect answer!)

>

> | That all being said, the practical results are so similar in MOST

> | cases that it probably don't matter too much.

>

> I think it likely is identical. Anything in RAM is cleared or

> over-written. But, I'll change my tune-- IF you show me a gory reference

> that hasn't fainted Terhune OR tell me the page to look at in "Windows

> 98 Secrets" (Livingston/Straub)!

>

> | Q.E.D.

>

> --

> Thanks or Good Luck,

> There may be humor in this post, and,

> Naturally, you will not sue,

> Should things get worse after this,

> PCR

> pcrrcp@netzero.net

>

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

You mean to say to me, PCR you still have that old Compaq from way back in

the past or is this a new one. You really should just build your machine

next time, PCR. It takes more time but I so much prefer just replacing and

upgrading the parts as needed. It makes my life so much easier and then I am

unique on the Net as compared to just being Dell 590707 and I can create my

own full customized identity with this machine. BTW, lots of lightning over

here 2 nights ago and my ethernet port was fried on my ASUS motherboard but

fortunately everything else was protected my a battery back up. My Dad,

Ivan, bought me a new battery backup and I can use the old one to help

protect the area in the main ethernet room. I live in a house now in

Albuquerque with 3 other guys. Brett is a student at UNM who also works at

Los Alamos and with technology at UNM. Mark is a student. Monty is a

minister for New Covenant Christian Church here in Albuquerque, NM that tries

to reach young University of New Mexico college students for Jesus Christ.

Anyway, back on the topic of computers and how they are so great. <I was

also recently researching and studying more in detail how cell phones work so

I can become more proficient with using them>

"PCR" wrote:

> "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

> news:ucSNyoc5HHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

> | "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> | news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

> || Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

> || There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

> ||

> || 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

> |

> | That is a cold boot.

> |

> || 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you don't

> || have to press any button to restart.

> |

> | This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston &

> | Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut Down does, but it

> | doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to restart Windows 98.

> | It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

> |

> | Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

> | that it is no different from a cold boot.

> |

> || 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

> || restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95, and

> || supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that would

> || perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's possible to

> || manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

> |

> | Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

> | page)...?...

> |

> | "To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm reboot

> | process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key while

> | clicking the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

> |

> | I intend to try it later!

>

> UPDATE: Yea, that was it. Instead of going to my Compaq BIOS's jumping

> solid square cursors, it went straight to a blank screen with a single,

> blinking line of a cursor, followed by the message... "Windows is now

> restarting". And indeed it did restart!

>

> || As for the ShellIconCache issue, you have Win98 in front of you (I

> || don't). Why don't you test? Won't hurt anything.

> ||

> || Also, there's a fix for increasing the size of the ShellIconCache.

> || Also creates an item in Folder Options that allows you to choose what

> || size. Here it is:

> || http://www.aumha.org/regfiles.php#icons

> ||

> || --

> || Gary S. Terhune

> || MS-MVP Shell/User

> || http://www.grystmill.com

> ||

> || "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> || news:%23FaxT%23F5HHA.5844@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> ||> Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> ||>> Bull. A "warm" reboot is not a full Restart, if that's what you

> ||>> mean, but a full reboot (one that isn't like the Win95 "soft" or

> ||>> "warm" reboot) is the

> ||>> equivalent of shutting down and restarting. Yes, it's possible to

> ||>> do a soft restart in Windows 98, but it isn't supported and is

> ||>> advised against. You certainly aren't doing that when you click

> ||>> Start>Shutdown>Restart.

> ||>

> ||> OK, but I was trying to distinguish between simply rebooting vs

> ||> shutting down and powering up again, and there sure is a difference

> ||> there! So I don't know what the right terms are then. (Forget

> ||> "warm reboot", then - my

> ||> bad). Maybe one is just called "rebooting", and the other has to

> ||> be laboriously callled "powering up from a cold start", and that's

> ||> all you can

> ||> call it.

> ||>

> ||>> And no, a single shutdown and restart will not rebuild the

> ||>> ShellIconCache,

> ||>> not until the next time you shut down (and you won't see it until

> ||>> you start it again.)

> ||>

> ||> Well, then I musta misrembered this, as I had thought that when I

> ||> deleted the cache and turned the computer off and then on again, the

> ||> cache *was* formed and there on the HD (as seen in windows

> ||> explorer). But maybe you're right and it still takes a reboot

> ||> even after that. I can't recall

> ||> for certain.

> ||>

> ||>> From the time you delete the file, it requires two restarts to

> ||>> see it again, whether you use Shutdown>Restart or Shutdown and

> ||>> manually restart.

> ||>>

> ||>> --

> ||>> Gary S. Terhune

> ||>> MS-MVP Shell/User

> ||>> http://www.grystmill.com

> ||>> .

> ||>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> ||>> news:es6vEtF5HHA.6024@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> ||>>> It IS different, because it doesn't require TWO warm reboots.

> ||>>> Just one cold reboot.

> ||>>>

> ||>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> ||>>>> Huh? Turning off the machine then back on isn't any different

> ||>>>> than a reboot. When you delete ShellIconCache, it isn't rebuilt

> ||>>>> until the second shut down or reboot, whichever you choose, no

> ||>>>> matter how you get it to that point.

> ||>>>>

> ||>>>> --

> ||>>>> Gary S. Terhune

> ||>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User

> ||>>>> http://www.grystmill.com

> ||>>>>

> ||>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> ||>>>> news:u1p9cTE5HHA.5796@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> ||>>>>> lb wrote:

> ||>>>>>> On Aug 21, 3:19 pm, H...@invalid.com wrote:

> ||>>>>>>> This is Win98se

> ||>>>>>>> For some reason there is some icon confusion going on. For

> ||>>>>>>> example, I have a program called "Hosts Toggle" (to turn on

> ||>>>>>>> and off the hosts file). Right now, all files with the PDF

> ||>>>>>>> extension have the icon from "Hosts Toggle". Text files

> ||>>>>>>> (.txt) have an icon from another program instead of the

> ||>>>>>>> notepad icon.

> ||>>>>>>>

> ||>>>>>>> The next time I reboot, the icons will be different and some

> ||>>>>>>> other extension will have the wrong icon, for example last

> ||>>>>>>> night all the .jpg files had an icon from another folder on my

> ||>>>>>>> desktop.

> ||>>>>>>>

> ||>>>>>>> Everything else is working fine. Why is this happeningt and

> ||>>>>>>> how do I

> ||>>>>>>> fix it?

> ||>>>>>>>

> ||>>>>>>> Thanks

> ||>>>>>>> HN

> ||>>>>>>

> ||>>>>>> If you have TweakUI, you can go to the repair tab and repair

> ||>>>>>> the icons.

> ||>>>>>>

> ||>>>>>> Your shelliconcache file may be too small or damaged. You can

> ||>>>>>> delete it and windows will make a new one on the 2nd boot.

> ||>>>>>

> ||>>>>> Or just turn off the computer, and then turn it on a few seconds

> ||>>>>> later,

> ||>>>>> and

> ||>>>>> you won't have to reboot twice - or thrice (possibly).

> ||>>>>>

> ||>>>>>> You can increase the size with programs such as Cacheman or X

> ||>>>>>> Setup. Both of these have older free versions. Post if you do

> ||>>>>>> not have any of these.

> ||>>>>>>

> ||>>>>>> Another thing is that if you are using a desktop shortcut to

> ||>>>>>> rapidly shutdown windows, stop using it as it prevents your

> ||>>>>>> shelliconcache from being rewritten properly.

> ||>>>>>

> ||>>>>> Not for me it doesn't (and hasn't). I've had a desktop

> ||>>>>> shortcut for

> ||>>>>> shutdown for years. (as for "rapidly", who knows. LOL).

> |

> | --

> | Thanks or Good Luck,

> | There may be humor in this post, and,

> | Naturally, you will not sue,

> | Should things get worse after this,

> | PCR

> | pcrrcp@netzero.net

>

> --

> Thanks or Good Luck,

> There may be humor in this post, and,

> Naturally, you will not sue,

> Should things get worse after this,

> PCR

> pcrrcp@netzero.net

>

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

So when is your last line of code executed, Frank?

"Franc Zabkar" wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

> finger to keyboard and composed:

>

> >"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> >news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

> >| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

> >| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

> >|

> >| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

> >

> >That is a cold boot.

> >

> >| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you don't

> >| have to press any button to restart.

> >

> >This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston &

> >Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut Down does, but it

> >doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to restart Windows 98. It

> >restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

> >

> >Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you that

> >it is no different from a cold boot.

>

> A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

> and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

> appears to do the same thing. However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

> prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

>

> I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

> Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

> keyboard controller.

>

> >| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

> >| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95, and

> >| supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that would

> >| perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's possible to

> >| manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

> >

> >Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same page)...?...

> >

> >"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm reboot

> >process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key while clicking

> >the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

> >

> >I intend to try it later!

>

> It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing else

> is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is structured like

> this:

>

> <code that executes before GUI starts>

> win

> <code that executes after GUI terminates>

>

> Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

>

> BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

> Restart, either.

>

> - Franc Zabkar

> --

> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

>

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

I would always do a full boot and never a quick boot, PCR. The benefits of

the full boot are much better. In this day and age it is not worth doing

things too quickly or you are more likely to make mistakes. It seems to be

the case with the computer too in some ways. <grin>

"PCR" wrote:

> "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

> news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com

> | On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

> | finger to keyboard and composed:

> |

> |>"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> |>news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

> |>| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

> |>| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

> |>|

> |>| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

> |>

> |>That is a cold boot.

> |>

> |>| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you don't

> |>| have to press any button to restart.

> |>

> |>This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston &

> |>Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut Down does, but it

> |>doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to restart Windows 98.

> |>It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

> |>

> |>Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

> |>that it is no different from a cold boot.

> |

> | A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

> | and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

> | appears to do the same thing.

>

> There is a Shut Down button in the Ctrl-Alt-Del windows, which I suppose

> is the same as Ctrl-Alt-Del hit twice. This does a shutdown alright. I

> think it BEST for Windows's housekeeping purposes to use the START

> button, Shut Down procedure, though. The Ctrl-Alt-Del method is to be

> used in emergency situations only, I believe.

>

> HOWEVER, apart from housekeeping issues during the shutdown, yea, those

> two must be the same: the only way to start again is to turn the machine

> back on, which must always begin at the same point in BIOS.

>

> | However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

> | prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

>

> Sheesh! I would want to think this to be the same as the other two, as

> far as where BIOS will begin its reboot! I'll have to try that, myself,

> then-- as I can't precisely recall what I've seen the 6/7 times I've

> done it before. Obviously, Windows doesn't get a chance to trap it when

> done in DOS-- but that shouldn't affect what BIOS will do during the

> restart!

>

> I must also remember to change my BIOS setting from Quickboot to

> Fullboot, which will do the RAM check on this Compaq 7470.

>

> | I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

> | Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

> | keyboard controller.

>

> Hmm... I think I see what you are saying... trapping it may not only be

> for the purpose of housekeeping before the restart... but, it may

> determine where the restart actually begins in BIOS. I don't know... it

> doesn't seem right! I'll have to experiment-- I'm not sure I can believe

> your eyes, Zabcar!

>

> |>| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

> |>| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95, and

> |>| supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that would

> |>| perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's possible to

> |>| manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

> |>

> |>Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

> |>page)...?...

> |>

> |>"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm reboot

> |>process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key while

> |>clicking the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

> |>

> |>I intend to try it later!

> |

> | It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing else

> | is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is structured like

> | this:

> |

> | <code that executes before GUI starts>

> | win

> | <code that executes after GUI terminates>

> |

> | Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

>

> That is true. It goes directly to a DOS-like screen with a blinking

> cursor. Shortly, "Windows is now restarting..." is written to the

> screen. My own Config.sys & Autoexec.bat are set to print their doings

> on the screen-- & it didn't happen!

>

> | BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

> | Restart, either.

>

> I guess it is not a part of Windows's houskeeping to have Autoexec.bat

> regain control during the restart process. I can believe your eyes on

> that one!

>

> NOW... I've lost my NET connection. OK, let me do some testing...

>

> Setting BIOS to Fullboot did show a RAM test during boot, just before I

> get the chance to enter BIOS Setup. It tested 376 MB, which is what I

> have after my onboard video grabs 8 MB. (There is BIOS setting to have

> it take fewer.) That is the only additional item I noticed. It appeared

> in the upper left corner of the Compaq logo screen. Actually, it is the

> ONLY doing of BIOS that this Compaq lets me see!

>

> WELL... for me Ctrl-Alt-Del in DOS... DID show the RAM test. I don't

> know why it doesn't happen for you. Are you sure you are seeing the BIOS

> RAM test at all-- & not just a similar one that Himem.sys can do with

> its "/TESTMEM:ON" parameter?

>

> And there were two short beeps afterwards! NOW I'll have to go look that

> up for this Compaq BIOS of 7/25/00 System ROM Family 686S4! It isn't in

> my manuals! The beeps aren't there unless I do the RAM check!

>

> | - Franc Zabkar

> | --

> | Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

>

> --

> Thanks or Good Luck,

> There may be humor in this post, and,

> Naturally, you will not sue,

> Should things get worse after this,

> PCR

> pcrrcp@netzero.net

>

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

Perhaps, someone will now start a topic on file associations. It would be of

interest to me.

"Don/Gen" wrote:

> HN,

>

> This happens to me from time to time and I go to Windows

> Explorer/View/Folder Options, click on File Types tab, double click on any

> of the files listed; Ex: Adobe Acrobat Document, in the Action window will

> be Open with Acrobat 6.0(your version may be different), click on OK and

> again OK to close out of both windows and your icons should return to

> normal. You have changed nothing but reminded the computer of an OK

> file/icon association. It is quick and easy without any shutdowns or

> restarts.

>

> Don

>

> <HN@invalid.com> wrote in message

> news:nnhmc3pr0rv0vpfsvbkaijsr5kibr7v2pc@4ax.com...

> > This is Win98se

> > For some reason there is some icon confusion going on. For example, I

> > have a program called "Hosts Toggle" (to turn on and off the hosts

> > file). Right now, all files with the PDF extension have the icon from

> > "Hosts Toggle". Text files (.txt) have an icon from another program

> > instead of the notepad icon.

> >

> > The next time I reboot, the icons will be different and some other

> > extension will have the wrong icon, for example last night all the

> > .jpg files had an icon from another folder on my desktop.

> >

> > Everything else is working fine. Why is this happeningt and how do I

> > fix it?

> >

> > Thanks

> > HN

>

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

Dan wrote:

> Perhaps, someone will now start a topic on file associations. It

> would be of interest to me.

Why don't you start it by asking a question?

--

dadiOH

____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

If I am understanding Franc correctly, I agree with him.

A cold boot either from powering the machine off and then on again, *OR* the

old "Reset" button on older PC's forces a hardware reset. The POST is

complete, including a full RAM count.

A warm boot (Ctrl-Alt-Del) does *not* force a complete hardware reset, and

one also notices that the system RAM is not re-counted.

--

HTH,

Curt

Windows Support Center

http://www.aumha.org

Practically Nerded,...

http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com...

| On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

| finger to keyboard and composed:

|

| >"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

| >news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

| >| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

| >| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

| >|

| >| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

| >

| >That is a cold boot.

| >

| >| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you don't

| >| have to press any button to restart.

| >

| >This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston &

| >Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut Down does, but it

| >doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to restart Windows 98. It

| >restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

| >

| >Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you that

| >it is no different from a cold boot.

|

| A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

| and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

| appears to do the same thing. However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

| prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

|

| I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

| Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

| keyboard controller.

|

| >| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

| >| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95, and

| >| supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that would

| >| perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's possible to

| >| manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

| >

| >Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same page)...?...

| >

| >"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm reboot

| >process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key while clicking

| >the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

| >

| >I intend to try it later!

|

| It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing else

| is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is structured like

| this:

|

| <code that executes before GUI starts>

| win

| <code that executes after GUI terminates>

|

| Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

|

| BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

| Restart, either.

|

| - Franc Zabkar

| --

| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

And one more item to consider for this review: during the warm

reboot/ctl-alt-del/Shut Down>Restart, the capacitors are NOT completely

discharged, which in conjunction with ATX *always on* power, leaves

residuals available, and BIOS/CMOS aspects active - As Blanton and others

have posted.

WHEREAS, A complete Shut Down, or holding the reset button for a few seconds

[with an ATX] does provide the necessary clearing.. though there are times

when one must even shut off the Master Power switch [or unplug] to

completely reset [such as a keyboard error - error held in chip controller].

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:e78OGBA6HHA.5984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

| If I am understanding Franc correctly, I agree with him.

|

| A cold boot either from powering the machine off and then on again, *OR*

the

| old "Reset" button on older PC's forces a hardware reset. The POST is

| complete, including a full RAM count.

|

| A warm boot (Ctrl-Alt-Del) does *not* force a complete hardware reset, and

| one also notices that the system RAM is not re-counted.

|

| --

| HTH,

| Curt

|

| Windows Support Center

| http://www.aumha.org

| Practically Nerded,...

| http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

|

| "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

| news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com...

| | On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

| | finger to keyboard and composed:

| |

| | >"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

| | >news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

| | >| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

| | >| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

| | >|

| | >| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

| | >

| | >That is a cold boot.

| | >

| | >| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you don't

| | >| have to press any button to restart.

| | >

| | >This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston &

| | >Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut Down does, but it

| | >doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to restart Windows 98.

It

| | >restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

| | >

| | >Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

that

| | >it is no different from a cold boot.

| |

| | A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

| | and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

| | appears to do the same thing. However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

| | prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

| |

| | I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

| | Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

| | keyboard controller.

| |

| | >| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

| | >| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95, and

| | >| supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that would

| | >| perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's possible to

| | >| manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

| | >

| | >Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

page)...?...

| | >

| | >"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm reboot

| | >process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key while clicking

| | >the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

| | >

| | >I intend to try it later!

| |

| | It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing else

| | is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is structured like

| | this:

| |

| | <code that executes before GUI starts>

| | win

| | <code that executes after GUI terminates>

| |

| | Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

| |

| | BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

| | Restart, either.

| |

| | - Franc Zabkar

| | --

| | Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

|

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

dadiOH wrote:

> Dan wrote:

>> Perhaps, someone will now start a topic on file associations. It

>> would be of interest to me.

>

> Why don't you start it by asking a question?

Preferably in a *brand new* thread. :-)

Also, since Microsoft's news server is wacky, have a look at:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/c1f28ea81a7518c7

Also:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?&query=%22problem+with+ATI+Radeon+9800+Pro+-+please+help%22&lang=en&cr=&guid=&sloc=en-us&dg=microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion&p=1&tid=6329a39e-366d-4bfe-bb9b-075e6c2e6415

(this explains the empty post by unknown!)

P.S. To the OP, I also heartily endorse the IconCache reg fix at

http://www.aumha.org/regfiles.php#icons .

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

Agreed. A rather significant difference in some instances.

--

HTH,

Curt

Windows Support Center

http://www.aumha.org

Practically Nerded,...

http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:u4f7MRA6HHA.5184@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

| And one more item to consider for this review: during the warm

| reboot/ctl-alt-del/Shut Down>Restart, the capacitors are NOT completely

| discharged, which in conjunction with ATX *always on* power, leaves

| residuals available, and BIOS/CMOS aspects active - As Blanton and others

| have posted.

|

| WHEREAS, A complete Shut Down, or holding the reset button for a few

seconds

| [with an ATX] does provide the necessary clearing.. though there are times

| when one must even shut off the Master Power switch [or unplug] to

| completely reset [such as a keyboard error - error held in chip

controller].

|

| --

| MEB

| http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

| ________

|

| "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

| news:e78OGBA6HHA.5984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

|| If I am understanding Franc correctly, I agree with him.

||

|| A cold boot either from powering the machine off and then on again, *OR*

| the

|| old "Reset" button on older PC's forces a hardware reset. The POST is

|| complete, including a full RAM count.

||

|| A warm boot (Ctrl-Alt-Del) does *not* force a complete hardware reset,

and

|| one also notices that the system RAM is not re-counted.

||

|| --

|| HTH,

|| Curt

||

|| Windows Support Center

|| http://www.aumha.org

|| Practically Nerded,...

|| http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

||

|| "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

|| news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com...

|| | On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

|| | finger to keyboard and composed:

|| |

|| | >"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

|| | >news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

|| | >| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

|| | >| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

|| | >|

|| | >| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

|| | >

|| | >That is a cold boot.

|| | >

|| | >| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you don't

|| | >| have to press any button to restart.

|| | >

|| | >This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston &

|| | >Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut Down does, but it

|| | >doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to restart Windows 98.

| It

|| | >restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

|| | >

|| | >Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

| that

|| | >it is no different from a cold boot.

|| |

|| | A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

|| | and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

|| | appears to do the same thing. However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

|| | prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

|| |

|| | I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

|| | Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

|| | keyboard controller.

|| |

|| | >| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

|| | >| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95, and

|| | >| supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that would

|| | >| perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's possible to

|| | >| manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

|| | >

|| | >Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

| page)...?...

|| | >

|| | >"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm reboot

|| | >process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key while

clicking

|| | >the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

|| | >

|| | >I intend to try it later!

|| |

|| | It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing else

|| | is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is structured like

|| | this:

|| |

|| | <code that executes before GUI starts>

|| | win

|| | <code that executes after GUI terminates>

|| |

|| | Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

|| |

|| | BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

|| | Restart, either.

|| |

|| | - Franc Zabkar

|| | --

|| | Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

||

|

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

"Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:0EB1CDE7-CA09-419C-9A27-7D3D546CD2AF@microsoft.com

| You mean to say to me, PCR you still have that old Compaq from way

| back in the past or is this a new one.

It's the same one. RAM & an HDD were added. An HDD, the monitor (twice),

& the mouse were replaced. One keyboard key is recently cigarette burnt.

But it's all still going just fine otherwise!

| You really should just build

| your machine next time, PCR. It takes more time but I so much prefer

| just replacing and upgrading the parts as needed. It makes my life

| so much easier and then I am unique on the Net as compared to just

| being Dell 590707 and I can create my own full customized identity

| with this machine. BTW, lots of lightning over here 2 nights ago and

| my ethernet port was fried on my ASUS motherboard but fortunately

| everything else was protected my a battery back up.

Very good! My own APC Back-UPS (uninterruptible power supply) has saved

me a few times now!

| My Dad, Ivan,

| bought me a new battery backup and I can use the old one to help

| protect the area in the main ethernet room. I live in a house now in

| Albuquerque with 3 other guys. Brett is a student at UNM who also

| works at Los Alamos and with technology at UNM. Mark is a student.

| Monty is a minister for New Covenant Christian Church here in

| Albuquerque, NM that tries to reach young University of New Mexico

| college students for Jesus Christ. Anyway, back on the topic of

| computers and how they are so great. <I was also recently

| researching and studying more in detail how cell phones work so I can

| become more proficient with using them>

Uhuh. Very good.

| "PCR" wrote:

|

|> "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

|> news:ucSNyoc5HHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

|> | "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

|> | news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

|> || Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

|> || There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

|> ||

|> || 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

|> |

|> | That is a cold boot.

|> |

|> || 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you

|> || don't have to press any button to restart.

|> |

|> | This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets"

|> | (Livingston & Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut

|> | Down does, but it doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete

|> | to restart Windows 98. It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

|> |

|> | Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

|> | that it is no different from a cold boot.

|> |

|> || 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

|> || restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95, and

|> || supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that would

|> || perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's possible to

|> || manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

|> |

|> | Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

|> | page)...?...

|> |

|> | "To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm

|> | reboot process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key

|> | while clicking the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

|> |

|> | I intend to try it later!

|>

|> UPDATE: Yea, that was it. Instead of going to my Compaq BIOS's

|> jumping solid square cursors, it went straight to a blank screen

|> with a single, blinking line of a cursor, followed by the message...

|> "Windows is now restarting". And indeed it did restart!

|>

|> || As for the ShellIconCache issue, you have Win98 in front of you (I

|> || don't). Why don't you test? Won't hurt anything.

|> ||

|> || Also, there's a fix for increasing the size of the ShellIconCache.

|> || Also creates an item in Folder Options that allows you to choose

|> || what size. Here it is:

|> || http://www.aumha.org/regfiles.php#icons

|> ||

|> || --

|> || Gary S. Terhune

|> || MS-MVP Shell/User

|> || http://www.grystmill.com

|> ||

|> || "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

|> || news:%23FaxT%23F5HHA.5844@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

|> ||> Gary S. Terhune wrote:

|> ||>> Bull. A "warm" reboot is not a full Restart, if that's what you

|> ||>> mean, but a full reboot (one that isn't like the Win95 "soft" or

|> ||>> "warm" reboot) is the

|> ||>> equivalent of shutting down and restarting. Yes, it's possible

|> ||>> to do a soft restart in Windows 98, but it isn't supported and

|> ||>> is advised against. You certainly aren't doing that when you

|> ||>> click Start>Shutdown>Restart.

|> ||>

|> ||> OK, but I was trying to distinguish between simply rebooting vs

|> ||> shutting down and powering up again, and there sure is a

|> ||> difference there! So I don't know what the right terms are

|> ||> then. (Forget "warm reboot", then - my

|> ||> bad). Maybe one is just called "rebooting", and the other has

|> ||> to be laboriously callled "powering up from a cold start", and

|> ||> that's all you can

|> ||> call it.

|> ||>

|> ||>> And no, a single shutdown and restart will not rebuild the

|> ||>> ShellIconCache,

|> ||>> not until the next time you shut down (and you won't see it

|> ||>> until you start it again.)

|> ||>

|> ||> Well, then I musta misrembered this, as I had thought that when I

|> ||> deleted the cache and turned the computer off and then on again,

|> ||> the cache *was* formed and there on the HD (as seen in windows

|> ||> explorer). But maybe you're right and it still takes a reboot

|> ||> even after that. I can't recall

|> ||> for certain.

|> ||>

|> ||>> From the time you delete the file, it requires two restarts to

|> ||>> see it again, whether you use Shutdown>Restart or Shutdown and

|> ||>> manually restart.

|> ||>>

|> ||>> --

|> ||>> Gary S. Terhune

|> ||>> MS-MVP Shell/User

|> ||>> http://www.grystmill.com

|> ||>> .

|> ||>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

|> ||>> news:es6vEtF5HHA.6024@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

|> ||>>> It IS different, because it doesn't require TWO warm reboots.

|> ||>>> Just one cold reboot.

|> ||>>>

|> ||>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote:

|> ||>>>> Huh? Turning off the machine then back on isn't any different

|> ||>>>> than a reboot. When you delete ShellIconCache, it isn't

|> ||>>>> rebuilt until the second shut down or reboot, whichever you

|> ||>>>> choose, no matter how you get it to that point.

|> ||>>>>

|> ||>>>> --

|> ||>>>> Gary S. Terhune

|> ||>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User

|> ||>>>> http://www.grystmill.com

|> ||>>>>

|> ||>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

|> ||>>>> news:u1p9cTE5HHA.5796@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

|> ||>>>>> lb wrote:

|> ||>>>>>> On Aug 21, 3:19 pm, H...@invalid.com wrote:

|> ||>>>>>>> This is Win98se

|> ||>>>>>>> For some reason there is some icon confusion going on. For

|> ||>>>>>>> example, I have a program called "Hosts Toggle" (to turn on

|> ||>>>>>>> and off the hosts file). Right now, all files with the PDF

|> ||>>>>>>> extension have the icon from "Hosts Toggle". Text files

|> ||>>>>>>> (.txt) have an icon from another program instead of the

|> ||>>>>>>> notepad icon.

|> ||>>>>>>>

|> ||>>>>>>> The next time I reboot, the icons will be different and

|> ||>>>>>>> some other extension will have the wrong icon, for example

|> ||>>>>>>> last night all the .jpg files had an icon from another

|> ||>>>>>>> folder on my desktop.

|> ||>>>>>>>

|> ||>>>>>>> Everything else is working fine. Why is this happeningt

|> ||>>>>>>> and how do I

|> ||>>>>>>> fix it?

|> ||>>>>>>>

|> ||>>>>>>> Thanks

|> ||>>>>>>> HN

|> ||>>>>>>

|> ||>>>>>> If you have TweakUI, you can go to the repair tab and repair

|> ||>>>>>> the icons.

|> ||>>>>>>

|> ||>>>>>> Your shelliconcache file may be too small or damaged. You

|> ||>>>>>> can delete it and windows will make a new one on the 2nd

|> ||>>>>>> boot.

|> ||>>>>>

|> ||>>>>> Or just turn off the computer, and then turn it on a few

|> ||>>>>> seconds later,

|> ||>>>>> and

|> ||>>>>> you won't have to reboot twice - or thrice (possibly).

|> ||>>>>>

|> ||>>>>>> You can increase the size with programs such as Cacheman or

|> ||>>>>>> X Setup. Both of these have older free versions. Post if

|> ||>>>>>> you do not have any of these.

|> ||>>>>>>

|> ||>>>>>> Another thing is that if you are using a desktop shortcut to

|> ||>>>>>> rapidly shutdown windows, stop using it as it prevents your

|> ||>>>>>> shelliconcache from being rewritten properly.

|> ||>>>>>

|> ||>>>>> Not for me it doesn't (and hasn't). I've had a desktop

|> ||>>>>> shortcut for

|> ||>>>>> shutdown for years. (as for "rapidly", who knows. LOL).

|> |

|> | --

|> | Thanks or Good Luck,

|> | There may be humor in this post, and,

|> | Naturally, you will not sue,

|> | Should things get worse after this,

|> | PCR

|> | pcrrcp@netzero.net

|>

|> --

|> Thanks or Good Luck,

|> There may be humor in this post, and,

|> Naturally, you will not sue,

|> Should things get worse after this,

|> PCR

|> pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

"Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:D1FE39DB-F4FB-49FB-8353-F18FF8D78872@microsoft.com

| I would always do a full boot and never a quick boot, PCR. The

| benefits of the full boot are much better. In this day and age it is

| not worth doing things too quickly or you are more likely to make

| mistakes. It seems to be the case with the computer too in some

| ways. <grin>

I used to always do it, myself, yea. OK, thanks.

| "PCR" wrote:

|

|> "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

|> news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com

|> | On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

|> | finger to keyboard and composed:

|> |

|> |>"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

|> |>news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

|> |>| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

|> |>| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

|> |>|

|> |>| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

|> |>

|> |>That is a cold boot.

|> |>

|> |>| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you

|> |>| don't have to press any button to restart.

|> |>

|> |>This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets"

|> |>(Livingston & Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut

|> |>Down does, but it doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete

|> |>to restart Windows 98. It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

|> |>

|> |>Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

|> |>that it is no different from a cold boot.

|> |

|> | A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

|> | and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

|> | appears to do the same thing.

|>

|> There is a Shut Down button in the Ctrl-Alt-Del windows, which I

|> suppose is the same as Ctrl-Alt-Del hit twice. This does a shutdown

|> alright. I think it BEST for Windows's housekeeping purposes to use

|> the START button, Shut Down procedure, though. The Ctrl-Alt-Del

|> method is to be used in emergency situations only, I believe.

|>

|> HOWEVER, apart from housekeeping issues during the shutdown, yea,

|> those two must be the same: the only way to start again is to turn

|> the machine back on, which must always begin at the same point in

|> BIOS.

|>

|> | However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

|> | prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

|>

|> Sheesh! I would want to think this to be the same as the other two,

|> as far as where BIOS will begin its reboot! I'll have to try that,

|> myself, then-- as I can't precisely recall what I've seen the 6/7

|> times I've done it before. Obviously, Windows doesn't get a chance

|> to trap it when done in DOS-- but that shouldn't affect what BIOS

|> will do during the restart!

|>

|> I must also remember to change my BIOS setting from Quickboot to

|> Fullboot, which will do the RAM check on this Compaq 7470.

|>

|> | I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

|> | Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

|> | keyboard controller.

|>

|> Hmm... I think I see what you are saying... trapping it may not only

|> be for the purpose of housekeeping before the restart... but, it may

|> determine where the restart actually begins in BIOS. I don't know...

|> it doesn't seem right! I'll have to experiment-- I'm not sure I can

|> believe your eyes, Zabcar!

|>

|> |>| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

|> |>| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95,

|> |>| and supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that

|> |>| would perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's

|> |>| possible to manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

|> |>

|> |>Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

|> |>page)...?...

|> |>

|> |>"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm

|> |>reboot process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key

|> |>while clicking the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

|> |>

|> |>I intend to try it later!

|> |

|> | It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing

|> | else is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is

|> | structured like this:

|> |

|> | <code that executes before GUI starts>

|> | win

|> | <code that executes after GUI terminates>

|> |

|> | Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

|>

|> That is true. It goes directly to a DOS-like screen with a blinking

|> cursor. Shortly, "Windows is now restarting..." is written to the

|> screen. My own Config.sys & Autoexec.bat are set to print their

|> doings on the screen-- & it didn't happen!

|>

|> | BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

|> | Restart, either.

|>

|> I guess it is not a part of Windows's houskeeping to have

|> Autoexec.bat regain control during the restart process. I can

|> believe your eyes on that one!

|>

|> NOW... I've lost my NET connection. OK, let me do some testing...

|>

|> Setting BIOS to Fullboot did show a RAM test during boot, just

|> before I get the chance to enter BIOS Setup. It tested 376 MB, which

|> is what I have after my onboard video grabs 8 MB. (There is BIOS

|> setting to have it take fewer.) That is the only additional item I

|> noticed. It appeared in the upper left corner of the Compaq logo

|> screen. Actually, it is the ONLY doing of BIOS that this Compaq lets

|> me see!

|>

|> WELL... for me Ctrl-Alt-Del in DOS... DID show the RAM test. I don't

|> know why it doesn't happen for you. Are you sure you are seeing the

|> BIOS RAM test at all-- & not just a similar one that Himem.sys can

|> do with its "/TESTMEM:ON" parameter?

|>

|> And there were two short beeps afterwards! NOW I'll have to go look

|> that up for this Compaq BIOS of 7/25/00 System ROM Family 686S4! It

|> isn't in my manuals! The beeps aren't there unless I do the RAM

|> check!

|>

|> | - Franc Zabkar

|> | --

|> | Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

|>

|> --

|> Thanks or Good Luck,

|> There may be humor in this post, and,

|> Naturally, you will not sue,

|> Should things get worse after this,

|> PCR

|> pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

"Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:8452C532-D246-418A-9BAD-DC95E1206983@microsoft.com

| I need to see if I can find that 98 Secrets book again, PCR. It is

| currently most likely in storage. I will look when I have an

| opportunity again.

That's a tough book to lose, Dan! It comes up to my kneecaps!

| "PCR" wrote:

|

|> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

|> news:u3TLi1f5HHA.3940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

|> | PCR wrote:

|> |> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

|> |> news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

|> |>> Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

|> |>> There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

|> |>>

|> |>> 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

|> |>

|> |> That is a cold boot.

|> |>

|> |>> 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you

|> |>> don't have to press any button to restart.

|> |>

|> |> This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets"

|> |> (Livingston & Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut

|> |> Down does, but it doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete

|> |> to restart Windows

|> |> 98. It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

|> |>

|> |> Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with

|> |> you that it is no different from a cold boot.

|> |

|> | But you're wrong, because it does NOT remove any resident code or

|> | data left in memory that could be problematic (in some instances).

|> | So it is NOT "identical", per se, by definition.

|>

|> I'm thinking...

|>

|> (a) There is the BIOS RAM check, where all of it is written to

|> & read from.

|> (b) Even without that, all RAM that will be used is over-written

|> with fresh code.

|>

|> | In addition, it is also not identical because the internal hardware

|> | (electronics) has not been powered off and then back on again,

|> | which could have some relevance for both hardware and software

|> | (low level) issues, in some instances).

|>

|> Somewhere during the boot, all peripheral devices get control to

|> over-write their RAM too, I'm thinking. DON'T make me hit you over

|> the head with a 1207 page book, Colorado! (It needs a major defrag &

|> an index re-work, or, instead, I'd pore through it for the perfect

|> answer!)

|>

|> | That all being said, the practical results are so similar in MOST

|> | cases that it probably don't matter too much.

|>

|> I think it likely is identical. Anything in RAM is cleared or

|> over-written. But, I'll change my tune-- IF you show me a gory

|> reference that hasn't fainted Terhune OR tell me the page to look at

|> in "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston/Straub)!

|>

|> | Q.E.D.

|>

|> --

|> Thanks or Good Luck,

|> There may be humor in this post, and,

|> Naturally, you will not sue,

|> Should things get worse after this,

|> PCR

|> pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:e78OGBA6HHA.5984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl

| If I am understanding Franc correctly, I agree with him.

|

| A cold boot either from powering the machine off and then on again,

| *OR* the old "Reset" button on older PC's forces a hardware reset.

| The POST is complete, including a full RAM count.

I never had a reset button, but can confirm a cold boot will have BIOS

do its RAM test-- IF it is set to do so. For me, that means having it do

a "Full boot" instead of a "Quick boot".

| A warm boot (Ctrl-Alt-Del) does *not* force a complete hardware

| reset, and one also notices that the system RAM is not re-counted.

Ctrl-Alt-Del in Windows can do a shut down (not a restart)-- but I

advise against it! Use the START menu, instead!

Right... in DOS, Ctrl-Alt-Del does a restart, yea. BUT, in my machine,

BIOS WILL do the RAM test-- JUST as it does from a Windows START menu

restart!

I can't say why you & Zabcar don't get one. Can it be something special

Compaq has put into this 7470?

| --

| HTH,

| Curt

|

| Windows Support Center

| http://www.aumha.org

| Practically Nerded,...

| http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

|

| "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

| news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com...

|| On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

|| finger to keyboard and composed:

||

|| >"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

|| >news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

|| >| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

|| >| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

|| >|

|| >| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

|| >

|| >That is a cold boot.

|| >

|| >| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you

|| >| don't have to press any button to restart.

|| >

|| >This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets"

|| >(Livingston & Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut

|| >Down does, but it doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to

|| >restart Windows 98. It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

|| >

|| >Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

|| >that it is no different from a cold boot.

||

|| A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

|| and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

|| appears to do the same thing. However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

|| prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

||

|| I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

|| Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

|| keyboard controller.

||

|| >| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

|| >| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95, and

|| >| supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that would

|| >| perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's possible to

|| >| manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

|| >

|| >Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

|| >page)...?...

|| >

|| >"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm reboot

|| >process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key while

|| >clicking the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

|| >

|| >I intend to try it later!

||

|| It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing else

|| is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is structured

|| like this:

||

|| <code that executes before GUI starts>

|| win

|| <code that executes after GUI terminates>

||

|| Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

||

|| BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

|| Restart, either.

||

|| - Franc Zabkar

|| --

|| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

August 26, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

"PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

news:eTRI5MC6HHA.5316@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl

| "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

| news:e78OGBA6HHA.5984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl

|| If I am understanding Franc correctly, I agree with him.

||

|| A cold boot either from powering the machine off and then on again,

|| *OR* the old "Reset" button on older PC's forces a hardware reset.

|| The POST is complete, including a full RAM count.

|

| I never had a reset button, but can confirm a cold boot will have BIOS

| do its RAM test-- IF it is set to do so. For me, that means having it

| do a "Full boot" instead of a "Quick boot".

|

|| A warm boot (Ctrl-Alt-Del) does *not* force a complete hardware

|| reset, and one also notices that the system RAM is not re-counted.

|

| Ctrl-Alt-Del in Windows can do a shut down (not a restart)-- but I

| advise against it! Use the START menu, instead!

UPDATE: Oh, gosh, that's right-- Ctrl-Alt-Del hit twice DOES do a

restart. It even says so right on the requestor... "WARNING: Pressing

CTRL-ALT-DEL again will restart your computer. You will lose all unsaved

information in all programs that are running." Sheeeesh!

STILL... it DOES do the BIOS RAM test during the restart for me!

| Right... in DOS, Ctrl-Alt-Del does a restart, yea. BUT, in my machine,

| BIOS WILL do the RAM test-- JUST as it does from a Windows START menu

| restart!

|

| I can't say why you & Zabcar don't get one. Can it be something

| special Compaq has put into this 7470?

|

|| --

|| HTH,

|| Curt

||

|| Windows Support Center

|| http://www.aumha.org

|| Practically Nerded,...

|| http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

||

|| "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

|| news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com...

||| On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

||| finger to keyboard and composed:

|||

||| >"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

||| >news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

||| >| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

||| >| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

||| >|

||| >| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

||| >

||| >That is a cold boot.

||| >

||| >| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you

||| >| don't have to press any button to restart.

||| >

||| >This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets"

||| >(Livingston & Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut

||| >Down does, but it doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to

||| >restart Windows 98. It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

||| >

||| >Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

||| >that it is no different from a cold boot.

|||

||| A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

||| and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

||| appears to do the same thing. However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

||| prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

|||

||| I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

||| Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

||| keyboard controller.

|||

||| >| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

||| >| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95,

||| >| and supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that

||| >| would perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's

||| >| possible to manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

||| >

||| >Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

||| >page)...?...

||| >

||| >"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm

||| >reboot process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key

||| >while clicking the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

||| >

||| >I intend to try it later!

|||

||| It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing else

||| is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is structured

||| like this:

|||

||| <code that executes before GUI starts>

||| win

||| <code that executes after GUI terminates>

|||

||| Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

|||

||| BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

||| Restart, either.

|||

||| - Franc Zabkar

||| --

||| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

|

| --

| Thanks or Good Luck,

| There may be humor in this post, and,

| Naturally, you will not sue,

| Should things get worse after this,

| PCR

| pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

August 27, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

Now if you were running XP, Ctrl-Alt-Del would bring up Task Mgr., and not a

restart.

--

HTH,

Curt

Windows Support Center

http://www.aumha.org

Practically Nerded,...

http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

news:OHq9OhD6HHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

| news:eTRI5MC6HHA.5316@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl

|| "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

|| news:e78OGBA6HHA.5984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl

||| If I am understanding Franc correctly, I agree with him.

|||

||| A cold boot either from powering the machine off and then on again,

||| *OR* the old "Reset" button on older PC's forces a hardware reset.

||| The POST is complete, including a full RAM count.

||

|| I never had a reset button, but can confirm a cold boot will have BIOS

|| do its RAM test-- IF it is set to do so. For me, that means having it

|| do a "Full boot" instead of a "Quick boot".

||

||| A warm boot (Ctrl-Alt-Del) does *not* force a complete hardware

||| reset, and one also notices that the system RAM is not re-counted.

||

|| Ctrl-Alt-Del in Windows can do a shut down (not a restart)-- but I

|| advise against it! Use the START menu, instead!

|

| UPDATE: Oh, gosh, that's right-- Ctrl-Alt-Del hit twice DOES do a

| restart. It even says so right on the requestor... "WARNING: Pressing

| CTRL-ALT-DEL again will restart your computer. You will lose all unsaved

| information in all programs that are running." Sheeeesh!

|

| STILL... it DOES do the BIOS RAM test during the restart for me!

|

|| Right... in DOS, Ctrl-Alt-Del does a restart, yea. BUT, in my machine,

|| BIOS WILL do the RAM test-- JUST as it does from a Windows START menu

|| restart!

||

|| I can't say why you & Zabcar don't get one. Can it be something

|| special Compaq has put into this 7470?

||

||| --

||| HTH,

||| Curt

|||

||| Windows Support Center

||| http://www.aumha.org

||| Practically Nerded,...

||| http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

|||

||| "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

||| news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com...

|||| On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

|||| finger to keyboard and composed:

||||

|||| >"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

|||| >news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

|||| >| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

|||| >| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

|||| >|

|||| >| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

|||| >

|||| >That is a cold boot.

|||| >

|||| >| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you

|||| >| don't have to press any button to restart.

|||| >

|||| >This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets"

|||| >(Livingston & Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut

|||| >Down does, but it doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to

|||| >restart Windows 98. It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

|||| >

|||| >Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

|||| >that it is no different from a cold boot.

||||

|||| A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

|||| and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

|||| appears to do the same thing. However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

|||| prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

||||

|||| I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

|||| Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

|||| keyboard controller.

||||

|||| >| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

|||| >| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95,

|||| >| and supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that

|||| >| would perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's

|||| >| possible to manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

|||| >

|||| >Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

|||| >page)...?...

|||| >

|||| >"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm

|||| >reboot process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key

|||| >while clicking the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

|||| >

|||| >I intend to try it later!

||||

|||| It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing else

|||| is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is structured

|||| like this:

||||

|||| <code that executes before GUI starts>

|||| win

|||| <code that executes after GUI terminates>

||||

|||| Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

||||

|||| BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

|||| Restart, either.

||||

|||| - Franc Zabkar

|||| --

|||| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

||

|| --

|| Thanks or Good Luck,

|| There may be humor in this post, and,

|| Naturally, you will not sue,

|| Should things get worse after this,

|| PCR

|| pcrrcp@netzero.net

|

| --

| Thanks or Good Luck,

| There may be humor in this post, and,

| Naturally, you will not sue,

| Should things get worse after this,

| PCR

| pcrrcp@netzero.net

|

August 27, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

Thanks for cleaing up the confusion guys.

"Daave" wrote:

> dadiOH wrote:

> > Dan wrote:

> >> Perhaps, someone will now start a topic on file associations. It

> >> would be of interest to me.

> >

> > Why don't you start it by asking a question?

>

> Preferably in a *brand new* thread. :-)

>

> Also, since Microsoft's news server is wacky, have a look at:

>

> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/c1f28ea81a7518c7

>

> Also:

>

> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?&query=%22problem+with+ATI+Radeon+9800+Pro+-+please+help%22&lang=en&cr=&guid=&sloc=en-us&dg=microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion&p=1&tid=6329a39e-366d-4bfe-bb9b-075e6c2e6415

>

> (this explains the empty post by unknown!)

>

> P.S. To the OP, I also heartily endorse the IconCache reg fix at

> http://www.aumha.org/regfiles.php#icons .

>

August 27, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:uBMdGzE6HHA.4880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

| Now if you were running XP, Ctrl-Alt-Del would bring up Task Mgr.,

| and not a restart.

DON'T rub XP-irradiation into my wound, Christianson!

| --

| HTH,

| Curt

|

| Windows Support Center

| http://www.aumha.org

| Practically Nerded,...

| http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

|

| "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

| news:OHq9OhD6HHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

|| "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

|| news:eTRI5MC6HHA.5316@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl

||| "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in

||| message news:e78OGBA6HHA.5984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl

|||| If I am understanding Franc correctly, I agree with him.

||||

|||| A cold boot either from powering the machine off and then on again,

|||| *OR* the old "Reset" button on older PC's forces a hardware reset.

|||| The POST is complete, including a full RAM count.

|||

||| I never had a reset button, but can confirm a cold boot will have

||| BIOS do its RAM test-- IF it is set to do so. For me, that means

||| having it do a "Full boot" instead of a "Quick boot".

|||

|||| A warm boot (Ctrl-Alt-Del) does *not* force a complete hardware

|||| reset, and one also notices that the system RAM is not re-counted.

|||

||| Ctrl-Alt-Del in Windows can do a shut down (not a restart)-- but I

||| advise against it! Use the START menu, instead!

||

|| UPDATE: Oh, gosh, that's right-- Ctrl-Alt-Del hit twice DOES do a

|| restart. It even says so right on the requestor... "WARNING: Pressing

|| CTRL-ALT-DEL again will restart your computer. You will lose all

|| unsaved information in all programs that are running." Sheeeesh!

||

|| STILL... it DOES do the BIOS RAM test during the restart for me!

||

||| Right... in DOS, Ctrl-Alt-Del does a restart, yea. BUT, in my

||| machine, BIOS WILL do the RAM test-- JUST as it does from a Windows

||| START menu restart!

|||

||| I can't say why you & Zabcar don't get one. Can it be something

||| special Compaq has put into this 7470?

|||

|||| --

|||| HTH,

|||| Curt

||||

|||| Windows Support Center

|||| http://www.aumha.org

|||| Practically Nerded,...

|||| http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

||||

|||| "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

|||| news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com...

||||| On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

||||| finger to keyboard and composed:

|||||

||||| >"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

||||| >news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

||||| >| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in

||||| >| terminology): There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or

||||| >| 95 computer.

||||| >|

||||| >| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

||||| >

||||| >That is a cold boot.

||||| >

||||| >| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you

||||| >| don't have to press any button to restart.

||||| >

||||| >This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets"

||||| >(Livingston & Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut

||||| >Down does, but it doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete

||||| >to restart Windows 98. It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

||||| >

||||| >Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with

||||| >you that it is no different from a cold boot.

|||||

||||| A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to

||||| POST and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within

||||| Windows appears to do the same thing. However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del

||||| from a DOS prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a

||||| RAM check.

|||||

||||| I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

||||| Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

||||| keyboard controller.

|||||

||||| >| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

||||| >| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95,

||||| >| and supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that

||||| >| would perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's

||||| >| possible to manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

||||| >

||||| >Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

||||| >page)...?...

||||| >

||||| >"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm

||||| >reboot process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key

||||| >while clicking the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog

||||| >box."

||||| >

||||| >I intend to try it later!

|||||

||||| It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing

||||| else is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is

||||| structured like this:

|||||

||||| <code that executes before GUI starts>

||||| win

||||| <code that executes after GUI terminates>

|||||

||||| Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

|||||

||||| BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

||||| Restart, either.

|||||

||||| - Franc Zabkar

||||| --

||||| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

|||

||| --

||| Thanks or Good Luck,

||| There may be humor in this post, and,

||| Naturally, you will not sue,

||| Should things get worse after this,

||| PCR

||| pcrrcp@netzero.net

||

|| --

|| Thanks or Good Luck,

|| There may be humor in this post, and,

|| Naturally, you will not sue,

|| Should things get worse after this,

|| PCR

|| pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

August 28, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Well, I've worked with electronics (and am an EE) all these years, as you

>probably know, so at least that part just seems so evident to me (probably

>from doing this kinda stuff in the lab for sooo many years, lol).

>

>I used the term pseudorandom, as I'm pretty sure it (the data contents of

>the RAM) is not completely statistically random, that's all.

That's not what "random" means in this context. It means that you can

access any part of the memory at any time, just as easily as any other

part. Pick any random byte in memory, you can read from it or write to

it at any time. This is different from "sequential" storage like a

tape, where you can't access a part of the tape until you do something

about all the data ahead of it on the tape.

Note that this also makes disks "random access memory", although the

term "RAM" always refers to what we used to call "core memory":

high-speed memory that the CPU accesses constantly, with nearly every

instruction.

--

Tim Slattery

MS MVP(DTS)

Slattery_T@bls.gov

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

August 28, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

Tim Slattery wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>> Well, I've worked with electronics (and am an EE) all these years, as you

>> probably know, so at least that part just seems so evident to me

(probably

>> from doing this kinda stuff in the lab for sooo many years, lol).

>>

>> I used the term pseudorandom, as I'm pretty sure it (the data contents of

>> the RAM) is not completely statistically random, that's all.

>

> That's not what "random" means in this context. It means that you can

> access any part of the memory at any time, just as easily as any other

> part. Pick any random byte in memory, you can read from it or write to

> it at any time. This is different from "sequential" storage like a

> tape, where you can't access a part of the tape until you do something

> about all the data ahead of it on the tape.

>

> Note that this also makes disks "random access memory", although the

> term "RAM" always refers to what we used to call "core memory":

> high-speed memory that the CPU accesses constantly, with nearly every

> instruction.

But that was NOT the point was I was addresssing (no pun intended).

But what I *was* talking about was the data contents of the RAM cells, and

NOT the random access addressing part. Completely different. The

addressing and data contents (of cells at any particular address) are

completely different things.

August 28, 2007

Re: Icon Confusion

"PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message

news:uisd1p55HHA.5740@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl

| "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

| news:srouc3pp8sjlhcj05bbbtodgqi3k0vucd7@4ax.com

|| On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:12:55 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> put

|| finger to keyboard and composed:

||

||>"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

||>news:ee6leLG5HHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

||>| Just to clarify (and to correct my own mistakes in terminology):

||>| There are three ways to restart a Windows 98 or 95 computer.

||>|

||>| 1. Shutdown, and then restart the machine manually.

||>

||>That is a cold boot.

||>

||>| 2. Restart or Reboot, which does the same as above except you don't

||>| have to press any button to restart.

||>

||>This one is called a "warm boot" by "Windows 98 Secrets" (Livingston

||>& Straub), p.297... "This option works just like Shut Down does, but

||>it doesn't require that you press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to restart Windows

||>98. It restarts Windows 98 with a warm boot."

||>

||>Since this does reach back to BIOS & post, I tend to agree with you

||>that it is no different from a cold boot.

||

|| A Shutdown -> Restart on my socket 7 box causes the machine to POST

|| and test the RAM. Hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del twice from within Windows

|| appears to do the same thing.

|

| There is a Shut Down button in the Ctrl-Alt-Del windows, which I

| suppose is the same as Ctrl-Alt-Del hit twice.

UPDATE...

No! Two Ctlr-Alt-Del in a row in Windows IS a restart-- just as is

stated in the requestor itself! (Sheesh. But it shouldn't be done that

way, unless in an emergency situation-- use the START, Shut Down,

method, instead!)

HOWEVER, in this machine, BIOS will run its RAM test during this

restart!

| This does a shutdown

| alright. I think it BEST for Windows's housekeeping purposes to use

| the START button, Shut Down procedure, though. The Ctrl-Alt-Del

| method is to be used in emergency situations only, I believe.

|

| HOWEVER, apart from housekeeping issues during the shutdown, yea,

| those two must be the same: the only way to start again is to turn

| the machine back on, which must always begin at the same point in

| BIOS.

|

|| However, a Ctrl-Alt-Del from a DOS

|| prompt (in real DOS mode) results in POSTing without a RAM check.

|

| Sheesh! I would want to think this to be the same as the other two, as

| far as where BIOS will begin its reboot! I'll have to try that,

| myself, then-- as I can't precisely recall what I've seen the 6/7

| times I've done it before. Obviously, Windows doesn't get a chance to

| trap it when done in DOS-- but that shouldn't affect what BIOS will

| do during the restart!

|

| I must also remember to change my BIOS setting from Quickboot to

| Fullboot, which will do the RAM check on this Compaq 7470.

|

|| I suspect that in GUI mode the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo is trapped by

|| Windows whereas in DOS mode it is trapped by the BIOS or the 8042

|| keyboard controller.

|

| Hmm... I think I see what you are saying... trapping it may not only

| be for the purpose of housekeeping before the restart... but, it may

| determine where the restart actually begins in BIOS. I don't know...

| it doesn't seem right! I'll have to experiment-- I'm not sure I can

| believe your eyes, Zabcar!

|

||>| 3. So-called "Warm" or "Soft" restart (not reboot), which only

||>| restarts Windows, while DOS remains resident. Common in Win95, and

||>| supported in Win98, mostly for those apps from 95 days that would

||>| perform such a restart as part of Setup. Yes, it's possible to

||>| manually do it in Win98, but I forget how.

||>

||>Could it be this "undocumented" feature from the book (same

||>page)...?...

||>

||>"To restart Windows 98 quickly without going through the warm reboot

||>process, mark Restart, and then hold down your Shift key while

||>clicking the OK button in the Shut Down Windows dialog box."

||>

||>I intend to try it later!

||

|| It works on my machine. AFAICT the GUI is restarted but nothing else

|| is touched. I say this because my autoexec.bat file is structured

|| like this:

||

|| <code that executes before GUI starts>

|| win

|| <code that executes after GUI terminates>

||

|| Neither block of code is executed during the warm restart.

|

| That is true. It goes directly to a DOS-like screen with a blinking

| cursor. Shortly, "Windows is now restarting..." is written to the

| screen. My own Config.sys & Autoexec.bat are set to print their doings

| on the screen-- & it didn't happen!

|

|| BTW, the last block of code is not executed after a Shutdown ->

|| Restart, either.

|

| I guess it is not a part of Windows's houskeeping to have Autoexec.bat

| regain control during the restart process. I can believe your eyes on

| that one!

|

| NOW... I've lost my NET connection. OK, let me do some testing...

|

| Setting BIOS to Fullboot did show a RAM test during boot, just before

| I get the chance to enter BIOS Setup. It tested 376 MB, which is what

| I have after my onboard video grabs 8 MB. (There is BIOS setting to

| have it take fewer.) That is the only additional item I noticed. It

| appeared in the upper left corner of the Compaq logo screen.

| Actually, it is the ONLY doing of BIOS that this Compaq lets me see!

|

| WELL... for me Ctrl-Alt-Del in DOS... DID show the RAM test. I don't

| know why it doesn't happen for you. Are you sure you are seeing the

| BIOS RAM test at all-- & not just a similar one that Himem.sys can do

| with its "/TESTMEM:ON" parameter?

|

| And there were two short beeps afterwards! NOW I'll have to go look

| that up for this Compaq BIOS of 7/25/00 System ROM Family 686S4! It

| isn't in my manuals! The beeps aren't there unless I do the RAM check!

UPDATE: I ran both the HIMEM.sys RAM test & Compaq's extensive

diagnostics-- & neither would confirm a RAM error or any kind of error!

So, I'm happy enough, despite...

http://bioscentral.com/beepcodes/compaqbeep.htm

Compaq BIOS Beep Codes

.......Quote...........

Beeps Error Message Description

....snip...

2 short General error Unknown

.......EOQ.............

|| - Franc Zabkar

|| --

|| Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

|

| --

| Thanks or Good Luck,

| There may be humor in this post, and,

| Naturally, you will not sue,

| Should things get worse after this,

| PCR

| pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

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