Re: Dummy printer

http://www.filedudes.com/Miraplacid_Text_Driver-download-8938.html

"Jerry Bank" <bankcello@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.2135089ca5d9396d98970f@news.verizon.net...

>I would like to set up a dummy printer that will print to a file. I know

> that I can specify the port at "FILE:", which will create a file on the

> disc. However, I don't want to have to respecify the file name each

> time. Is there a way to have it go to the same file each time.

>

> Someone suggested using adding a port and specifying "local port"',

> however I don't seem to know the syntax for doing that. When I specify

> "local port" it asks for the port name, and I don't know what to put. I

> tried putting in the file name, but that get rejected.

>

> Any suggestions?

>

> Thanks.

>

> --

> Jerry Bank

> Trenton, New Jersey

> Music is the language of the gods.

August 21, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

In article <#rCwUPD5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, "Gary S. Terhune"

<none> says...

> Don't know the answer, but I'm cross-posting this to the Win98 General

> group, since this one gets very little traffic.

>

Thanks.

--

Jerry Bank

Trenton, New Jersey

Music is the language of the gods.

August 21, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

Just to reiterate, your original post was:

I would like to set up a dummy printer that will print to a file. I know

that I can specify the port at "FILE:", which will create a file on the

disc. However, I don't want to have to respecify the file name each

time. Is there a way to have it go to the same file each time.

Someone suggested using adding a port and specifying "local port"',

however I don't seem to know the syntax for doing that. When I specify

"local port" it asks for the port name, and I don't know what to put. I

tried putting in the file name, but that get rejected.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

"Jerry Bank" <bankcello@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.213536b71a42faef989710@news.verizon.net...

> In article <#rCwUPD5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, "Gary S. Terhune"

> <none> says...

>> Don't know the answer, but I'm cross-posting this to the Win98 General

>> group, since this one gets very little traffic.

>>

> Thanks.

> --

> Jerry Bank

> Trenton, New Jersey

> Music is the language of the gods.

August 22, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

""Miraplacid Text Driver 4.4 for Windows 98/Me/2000/XP/2003 extracts text

from any printable documents. After installation on your PC, Miraplacid Text

Driver appears as a new printer in your system. When document is printed,

Miraplacid Text Driver opens a dialog with Preview Window. You can save

resulting text to disk, upload to FTP or HTTP server,or print them to a real

printer or send to Clipboard.

You can save the extracted information as plain, formatted text or as XML

for future processing in all installed codepages and Unicode.

Miraplacid Text Driver 4.4 adds icon to desktop. All the documents you drag

and drop to this icon will be printed behind the scenes and processed by

Miraplacid Text Driver. Turn "Auto Save Mode" on if you want Miraplacid Text

Driver to save all the extracted text to a file without waiting for your

input. If you want every document to be saved to an individual file, add

{{DATE}}, {{TIME}}, {{IDENTITY}}, {{PAGE}} or {{JOB}} to the file name or

path. They will be replaced with current date, time, some unique number,

page number and print job id respectively.

With "Redirect" option, you can print original print job to your physical

printer at the time of extracting text.""

This might do what you want, I had the link lying around have several band

printers arent directly supported in win98

--

-- -- -- -- --

Adaware http://www.lavasoft.de

spybot http://www.safer-networking.org

AVG free antivirus http://free.grisoft.com/

Etrust/Vet/CA.online Antivirus scan

http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/virusinfo/scan.aspx

Super Antispyware http://www.superantispyware.com/

Panda online AntiVirus scan http://www.activescan.com

Panda online AntiSpyware Scan

http://www.pandasoftware.com/virus_info/spyware/test/

Catalog of removal tools (1)

http://www.pandasoftware.com/download/utilities/

Catalog of removal tools (2)

http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/newsinfo/collateral.aspx?CID=40387

Trouble Shooting guide to Windows http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/

Blocking Unwanted Parasites with a Hosts file

http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

links provided as a courtesy, read all instructions on the pages before

use

Grateful thanks to the authors/webmasters

_

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:OSaTdyE5HHA.3684@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Just to reiterate, your original post was:

>

> I would like to set up a dummy printer that will print to a file. I know

> that I can specify the port at "FILE:", which will create a file on the

> disc. However, I don't want to have to respecify the file name each

> time. Is there a way to have it go to the same file each time.

>

> Someone suggested using adding a port and specifying "local port"',

> however I don't seem to know the syntax for doing that. When I specify

> "local port" it asks for the port name, and I don't know what to put. I

> tried putting in the file name, but that get rejected.

>

> Any suggestions?

>

> Thanks.

>

> "Jerry Bank" <bankcello@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:MPG.213536b71a42faef989710@news.verizon.net...

> > In article <#rCwUPD5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, "Gary S. Terhune"

> > <none> says...

> >> Don't know the answer, but I'm cross-posting this to the Win98 General

> >> group, since this one gets very little traffic.

> >>

> > Thanks.

> > --

> > Jerry Bank

> > Trenton, New Jersey

> > Music is the language of the gods.

>

August 22, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to

be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached,

and copy to that printer in order to print it.

Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

--

Jeff Richards

MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:OSaTdyE5HHA.3684@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Just to reiterate, your original post was:

>

> I would like to set up a dummy printer that will print to a file. I know

> that I can specify the port at "FILE:", which will create a file on the

> disc. However, I don't want to have to respecify the file name each

> time. Is there a way to have it go to the same file each time.

>

> Someone suggested using adding a port and specifying "local port"',

> however I don't seem to know the syntax for doing that. When I specify

> "local port" it asks for the port name, and I don't know what to put. I

> tried putting in the file name, but that get rejected.

>

> Any suggestions?

>

> Thanks.

>

> "Jerry Bank" <bankcello@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:MPG.213536b71a42faef989710@news.verizon.net...

>> In article <#rCwUPD5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, "Gary S. Terhune"

>> <none> says...

>>> Don't know the answer, but I'm cross-posting this to the Win98 General

>>> group, since this one gets very little traffic.

>>>

>> Thanks.

>> --

>> Jerry Bank

>> Trenton, New Jersey

>> Music is the language of the gods.

>

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

says...

> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to

> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached,

> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>

> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>

Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

laser printer.

The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

works.

I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

problem.

Thanks.

--

Jerry Bank

Trenton, New Jersey

Music is the language of the gods.

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

Jerry Bank wrote:

> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

> says...

>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to

>> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

>> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached,

>> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>

>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>

> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

> like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

> reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

> laser printer.

>

> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

> program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

> and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

> works.

>

> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>

> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

> problem.

>

> Thanks.

Have your tried installing the Generic Text to file "printer"

You would only need to click a file name and press the "Enter" key when

the file name dialog appears.

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

The man needs to print to file (a PRN file, I think, not text file) from a

DOS app, something that he can then send to the printer from Windows.

Generic Text to File won't help. Unfortunately, Jerry knows more about it

than I or most others here do.

Hey, Jerry... I have a couple of old dot matrix printers... or maybe my Dad

has them now. Might be the simplest solution to find a used one, not that

it's that simple, <g>. You still have an LPT port?

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"RobertVA" <robert_c72athotmail@invalid.com> wrote in message

news:%231dG0lT5HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Jerry Bank wrote:

>> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

>> says...

>>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have

>>> to be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file

>>> that you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer

>>> attached, and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>>

>>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>>

>> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

>> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

>> like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

>> reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

>> laser printer.

>>

>> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

>> program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

>> and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

>> works.

>>

>> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

>> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>>

>> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

>> problem.

>>

>> Thanks.

> Have your tried installing the Generic Text to file "printer"

>

> You would only need to click a file name and press the "Enter" key when

> the file name dialog appears.

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

What, exactly, do you mean when you say you "upgraded" your computer.

Upgraded it from what to what?

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"Jerry Bank" <bankcello@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.2136b6c0916df579989712@news.verizon.net...

> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

> says...

>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have

>> to

>> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

>> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer

>> attached,

>> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>

>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>

> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

> like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

> reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

> laser printer.

>

> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

> program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

> and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

> works.

>

> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>

> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

> problem.

>

> Thanks.

> --

> Jerry Bank

> Trenton, New Jersey

> Music is the language of the gods.

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

I don't know about the OP's laser printer, but all of my printers here have the

option "Print to file" which does save it as a .prn file.

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

Conflicts start where information lacks.

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:OnKgwxT5HHA.5360@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> The man needs to print to file (a PRN file, I think, not text file) from a DOS app,

> something that he can then send to the printer from Windows. Generic Text to File

> won't help. Unfortunately, Jerry knows more about it than I or most others here do.

>

> Hey, Jerry... I have a couple of old dot matrix printers... or maybe my Dad has

> them now. Might be the simplest solution to find a used one, not that it's that

> simple, <g>. You still have an LPT port?

>

> --

> Gary S. Terhune

> MS-MVP Shell/User

>

> "RobertVA" <robert_c72athotmail@invalid.com> wrote in message

> news:%231dG0lT5HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> Jerry Bank wrote:

>>> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au says...

>>>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to be a

>>>> print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that you then

>>>> transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached, and copy to

>>>> that printer in order to print it.

>>>>

>>>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document type,

>>>> such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>>>

>>> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos program

>>> that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would like to continue

>>> using it. However, while it was able to print its reports to my old dot-matrix

>>> printer, it really can't handle my current laser printer.

>>>

>>> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple program

>>> prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited and printed out

>>> in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer works.

>>>

>>> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program called

>>> dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>>>

>>> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this problem.

>>>

>>> Thanks.

>> Have your tried installing the Generic Text to file "printer"

>>

>> You would only need to click a file name and press the "Enter" key when the file

>> name dialog appears.

>

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 02:11:06 GMT, Jerry Bank <bankcello@verizon.net>

put finger to keyboard and composed:

>In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

>says...

>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to

>> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

>> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached,

>> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>

>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>

>Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

>program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

>like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

>reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

>laser printer.

>

>The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

>program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

>and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

>works.

>

>I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

>called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>

>I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

>problem.

>

>Thanks.

Try making your laser a network printer and then remap your LPT1 port

to it:

net use lpt1: \\printer_server\print_share

Having said that, I wonder whether your laser and DMX printers speak

the same language?

For example, HP lasers use PCL whereas Epson DMX printers use ESC/P

control language.

- Franc Zabkar

--

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

I would stick with getting prn2dos to work - it is an extremely simple

little utility that uses no special features of DOS and should work in just

about any type of DOS environment. Can you describe the changes you have

made that might have caused prn2dos to stop working?

Do you still have a LPT1 in the DOS where you are running the accounting

application?

What was the symptom of prn2dos ceasing to work?

--

Jeff Richards

MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)

"Jerry Bank" <bankcello@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.2136b6c0916df579989712@news.verizon.net...

> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

> says...

>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have

>> to

>> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

>> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer

>> attached,

>> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>

>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>

> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

> like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

> reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

> laser printer.

>

> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

> program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

> and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

> works.

>

> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>

> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

> problem.

>

> Thanks.

> --

> Jerry Bank

> Trenton, New Jersey

> Music is the language of the gods.

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

.....except that it should be prn2file, if it's the one I'm familiar with.

--

Jeff Richards

MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)

"Jeff Richards" <JRichards@msn.com.au> wrote in message

news:%23mvyEfW5HHA.5984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>I would stick with getting prn2dos to work - it is an extremely simple

>little utility that uses no special features of DOS and should work in just

>about any type of DOS environment. Can you describe the changes you have

>made that might have caused prn2dos to stop working?

>

> Do you still have a LPT1 in the DOS where you are running the accounting

> application?

>

> What was the symptom of prn2dos ceasing to work?

> --

> Jeff Richards

> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)

> "Jerry Bank" <bankcello@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:MPG.2136b6c0916df579989712@news.verizon.net...

>> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

>> says...

>>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have

>>> to

>>> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file

>>> that

>>> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer

>>> attached,

>>> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>>

>>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>>

>> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

>> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

>> like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

>> reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

>> laser printer.

>>

>> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

>> program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

>> and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

>> works.

>>

>> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

>> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>>

>> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

>> problem.

>>

>> Thanks.

>> --

>> Jerry Bank

>> Trenton, New Jersey

>> Music is the language of the gods.

>

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

But do they have DOS drivers? Honest, I don't know much about this aspect,

and my laser printers are at the other house.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

news:eypa7rU5HHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> I don't know about the OP's laser printer, but all of my printers here

> have the option "Print to file" which does save it as a .prn file.

>

> --

>

> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

> Conflicts start where information lacks.

>

> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

>

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> news:OnKgwxT5HHA.5360@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> The man needs to print to file (a PRN file, I think, not text file) from

>> a DOS app, something that he can then send to the printer from Windows.

>> Generic Text to File won't help. Unfortunately, Jerry knows more about it

>> than I or most others here do.

>>

>> Hey, Jerry... I have a couple of old dot matrix printers... or maybe my

>> Dad has them now. Might be the simplest solution to find a used one, not

>> that it's that simple, <g>. You still have an LPT port?

>>

>> --

>> Gary S. Terhune

>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>> http://www.grystmill.com

>>

>> "RobertVA" <robert_c72athotmail@invalid.com> wrote in message

>> news:%231dG0lT5HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>> Jerry Bank wrote:

>>>> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>,

>>>> JRichards@msn.com.au says...

>>>>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating

>>>>> have to be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would

>>>>> a file that you then transfer to another machine that has that type of

>>>>> printer attached, and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>>>>

>>>>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain

>>>>> document type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>>>>

>>>> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

>>>> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

>>>> like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

>>>> reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

>>>> laser printer.

>>>>

>>>> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

>>>> program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

>>>> and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

>>>> works.

>>>>

>>>> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

>>>> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>>>>

>>>> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

>>>> problem.

>>>>

>>>> Thanks.

>>> Have your tried installing the Generic Text to file "printer"

>>>

>>> You would only need to click a file name and press the "Enter" key when

>>> the file name dialog appears.

>>

>

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

I don't think DOS drivers are the problem, the problem is printing from DOS to a

USB printer and USB is supported in DOS. Frank has posted what the OP needs to do,

set the printer as shared and direct the LPT1 port, which is supported in DOS, to the

printer via the net use command.

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

Conflicts start where information lacks.

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:eizgGnY5HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> But do they have DOS drivers? Honest, I don't know much about this aspect, and my

> laser printers are at the other house.

>

> --

> Gary S. Terhune

> MS-MVP Shell/User

>

> "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

> news:eypa7rU5HHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> I don't know about the OP's laser printer, but all of my printers here have the

>> option "Print to file" which does save it as a .prn file.

>>

>> --

>>

>> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

>> Conflicts start where information lacks.

>> http://basconotw.mvps.org/

>>

>> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

>>

>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

>> news:OnKgwxT5HHA.5360@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>> The man needs to print to file (a PRN file, I think, not text file) from a DOS

>>> app, something that he can then send to the printer from Windows. Generic Text to

>>> File won't help. Unfortunately, Jerry knows more about it than I or most others

>>> here do.

>>>

>>> Hey, Jerry... I have a couple of old dot matrix printers... or maybe my Dad has

>>> them now. Might be the simplest solution to find a used one, not that it's that

>>> simple, <g>. You still have an LPT port?

>>>

>>> --

>>> Gary S. Terhune

>>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>>> http://www.grystmill.com

>>>

>>> "RobertVA" <robert_c72athotmail@invalid.com> wrote in message

>>> news:%231dG0lT5HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>>> Jerry Bank wrote:

>>>>> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

>>>>> says...

>>>>>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to be

>>>>>> a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that you

>>>>>> then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached, and

>>>>>> copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document type,

>>>>>> such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>>>>>

>>>>> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos program

>>>>> that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would like to

>>>>> continue using it. However, while it was able to print its reports to my old

>>>>> dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current laser printer.

>>>>>

>>>>> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple program

>>>>> prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited and printed out

>>>>> in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer works.

>>>>>

>>>>> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program called

>>>>> dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>>>>>

>>>>> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

>>>>> problem.

>>>>>

>>>>> Thanks.

>>>> Have your tried installing the Generic Text to file "printer"

>>>>

>>>> You would only need to click a file name and press the "Enter" key when the file

>>>> name dialog appears.

>>>

>>

>

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

My fuzziness... I figure if you want to print from DOS, you need DOS print

drivers. I wouldn't expect modern printers to be able to do that, though I

don't understand DOS printing all that well, not at all, in fact. Does an

app just send the data to the LPT port? What converts it to PRN?

My color laser printers (HP4550 and Konika-Minolta 3300) both take PS and

PCL. Do they first convert it to PCL? My understanding is that they could

handle both PS and PCL directly, without converting.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

"Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

news:emA3JtZ5HHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> I don't think DOS drivers are the problem, the problem is printing from

> DOS to a USB printer and USB is supported in DOS. Frank has posted what

> the OP needs to do, set the printer as shared and direct the LPT1 port,

> which is supported in DOS, to the printer via the net use command.

>

> --

>

> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

> Conflicts start where information lacks.

http://www.dosprn.com/order.htm

>

> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

>

> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

> news:eizgGnY5HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> But do they have DOS drivers? Honest, I don't know much about this

>> aspect, and my laser printers are at the other house.

>>

>> --

>> Gary S. Terhune

>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>> http://www.grystmill.com

>>

>> "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

>> news:eypa7rU5HHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>> I don't know about the OP's laser printer, but all of my printers here

>>> have the option "Print to file" which does save it as a .prn file.

>>>

>>> --

>>>

>>> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

>>> Conflicts start where information lacks.

>>> http://basconotw.mvps.org/

>>>

>>> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>>> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

>>>

>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

>>> news:OnKgwxT5HHA.5360@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>> The man needs to print to file (a PRN file, I think, not text file)

>>>> from a DOS app, something that he can then send to the printer from

>>>> Windows. Generic Text to File won't help. Unfortunately, Jerry knows

>>>> more about it than I or most others here do.

>>>>

>>>> Hey, Jerry... I have a couple of old dot matrix printers... or maybe my

>>>> Dad has them now. Might be the simplest solution to find a used one,

>>>> not that it's that simple, <g>. You still have an LPT port?

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Gary S. Terhune

>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>>>> http://www.grystmill.com

>>>>

>>>> "RobertVA" <robert_c72athotmail@invalid.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:%231dG0lT5HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>>>> Jerry Bank wrote:

>>>>>> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>,

>>>>>> JRichards@msn.com.au says...

>>>>>>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating

>>>>>>> have to be a print file for a particular type of printer? This

>>>>>>> would a file that you then transfer to another machine that has that

>>>>>>> type of printer attached, and copy to that printer in order to print

>>>>>>> it.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain

>>>>>>> document type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient

>>>>>> dos program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I

>>>>>> would like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print

>>>>>> its reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my

>>>>>> current laser printer.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

>>>>>> program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then

>>>>>> edited and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no

>>>>>> longer works.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a

>>>>>> program called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve

>>>>>> this problem.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Thanks.

>>>>> Have your tried installing the Generic Text to file "printer"

>>>>>

>>>>> You would only need to click a file name and press the "Enter" key

>>>>> when the file name dialog appears.

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

Aside from Franks great suggestion, if you don't mind doling out about $20.00 check

out DOSPrn 1.76. It's a program designed to enable the continued use of older DOS

printing programs and today's newer LaserJet printers. It works with all OS's up to

XP and does have a trial period so you can check it out before purchasing if it's

what you need.

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

Conflicts start where information lacks.

http://www1.itrc.hp.com/service/james/search.do?todo=search&searchtext=print+in+dos&from=bsdforums&origin=0&wpa=forums1.itrc.hp.com%3A80&searchcategory=ALL&hpl=1&searchcriteria=allwords&rn=25&source=7000&presort=rank&chkServStor=on&esc=support.itrc.hp.com&admit=-682735245+1187885973664+28353475

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

"Jerry Bank" <bankcello@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.2136b6c0916df579989712@news.verizon.net...

> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

> says...

>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to

>> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

>> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached,

>> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>

>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>

> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

> like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

> reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

> laser printer.

>

> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

> program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

> and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

> works.

>

> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>

> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

> problem.

>

> Thanks.

> --

> Jerry Bank

> Trenton, New Jersey

> Music is the language of the gods.

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

Instead of my mumble jumble, have a look-see here:

or: http://tinyurl.com/235suz

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

Conflicts start where information lacks.

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:eMTXv3Z5HHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> My fuzziness... I figure if you want to print from DOS, you need DOS print drivers.

> I wouldn't expect modern printers to be able to do that, though I don't understand

> DOS printing all that well, not at all, in fact. Does an app just send the data to

> the LPT port? What converts it to PRN?

>

> My color laser printers (HP4550 and Konika-Minolta 3300) both take PS and PCL. Do

> they first convert it to PCL? My understanding is that they could handle both PS

> and PCL directly, without converting.

>

> --

> Gary S. Terhune

> MS-MVP Shell/User

>

> "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

> news:emA3JtZ5HHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> I don't think DOS drivers are the problem, the problem is printing from DOS to a

>> USB printer and USB is supported in DOS. Frank has posted what the OP needs to

>> do, set the printer as shared and direct the LPT1 port, which is supported in DOS,

>> to the printer via the net use command.

>>

>> --

>>

>> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

>> Conflicts start where information lacks.

>> http://basconotw.mvps.org/

>>

>> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

>>

>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

>> news:eizgGnY5HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>> But do they have DOS drivers? Honest, I don't know much about this aspect, and my

>>> laser printers are at the other house.

>>>

>>> --

>>> Gary S. Terhune

>>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>>> http://www.grystmill.com

>>>

>>> "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

>>> news:eypa7rU5HHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>> I don't know about the OP's laser printer, but all of my printers here have the

>>>> option "Print to file" which does save it as a .prn file.

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

>>>> Conflicts start where information lacks.

>>>> http://basconotw.mvps.org/

>>>>

>>>> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>>>> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

>>>>

>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

>>>> news:OnKgwxT5HHA.5360@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>> The man needs to print to file (a PRN file, I think, not text file) from a DOS

>>>>> app, something that he can then send to the printer from Windows. Generic Text

>>>>> to File won't help. Unfortunately, Jerry knows more about it than I or most

>>>>> others here do.

>>>>>

>>>>> Hey, Jerry... I have a couple of old dot matrix printers... or maybe my Dad has

>>>>> them now. Might be the simplest solution to find a used one, not that it's that

>>>>> simple, <g>. You still have an LPT port?

>>>>>

>>>>> --

>>>>> Gary S. Terhune

>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>>>>> http://www.grystmill.com

>>>>>

>>>>> "RobertVA" <robert_c72athotmail@invalid.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:%231dG0lT5HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> Jerry Bank wrote:

>>>>>>> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

>>>>>>> says...

>>>>>>>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to

>>>>>>>> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

>>>>>>>> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached,

>>>>>>>> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>>>>>>>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

>>>>>>> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would like

>>>>>>> to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its reports to my

>>>>>>> old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current laser printer.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple program

>>>>>>> prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited and printed

>>>>>>> out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer works.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

>>>>>>> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

>>>>>>> problem.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Thanks.

>>>>>> Have your tried installing the Generic Text to file "printer"

>>>>>>

>>>>>> You would only need to click a file name and press the "Enter" key when the

>>>>>> file name dialog appears.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

BTW, click on the Manual link on the page for info with graphics.

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

Conflicts start where information lacks.

> http://www.dosprn.com/order.htm

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

"Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

news:ewJCP$Z5HHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Aside from Franks great suggestion, if you don't mind doling out about $20.00

> check out DOSPrn 1.76. It's a program designed to enable the continued use of

> older DOS printing programs and today's newer LaserJet printers. It works with all

> OS's up to XP and does have a trial period so you can check it out before

> purchasing if it's what you need.

>

> --

>

> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

> Conflicts start where information lacks.

http://www.dosprn.com/readme.htm

>

> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

>

> "Jerry Bank" <bankcello@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:MPG.2136b6c0916df579989712@news.verizon.net...

>> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

>> says...

>>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to

>>> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

>>> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached,

>>> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>>

>>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>>

>> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

>> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would

>> like to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its

>> reports to my old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current

>> laser printer.

>>

>> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple

>> program prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited

>> and printed out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer

>> works.

>>

>> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

>> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>>

>> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

>> problem.

>>

>> Thanks.

>> --

>> Jerry Bank

>> Trenton, New Jersey

>> Music is the language of the gods.

>

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

Mumble-Jumble aside, this app would be of much greater use to Jerry:

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

Conflicts start where information lacks.

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

news:eMTXv3Z5HHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> My fuzziness... I figure if you want to print from DOS, you need DOS print drivers.

> I wouldn't expect modern printers to be able to do that, though I don't understand

> DOS printing all that well, not at all, in fact. Does an app just send the data to

> the LPT port? What converts it to PRN?

>

> My color laser printers (HP4550 and Konika-Minolta 3300) both take PS and PCL. Do

> they first convert it to PCL? My understanding is that they could handle both PS

> and PCL directly, without converting.

>

> --

> Gary S. Terhune

> MS-MVP Shell/User

>

> "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

> news:emA3JtZ5HHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> I don't think DOS drivers are the problem, the problem is printing from DOS to a

>> USB printer and USB is supported in DOS. Frank has posted what the OP needs to

>> do, set the printer as shared and direct the LPT1 port, which is supported in DOS,

>> to the printer via the net use command.

>>

>> --

>>

>> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

>> Conflicts start where information lacks.

>> http://basconotw.mvps.org/

>>

>> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

>>

>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

>> news:eizgGnY5HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>> But do they have DOS drivers? Honest, I don't know much about this aspect, and my

>>> laser printers are at the other house.

>>>

>>> --

>>> Gary S. Terhune

>>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>>> http://www.grystmill.com

>>>

>>> "Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

>>> news:eypa7rU5HHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>> I don't know about the OP's laser printer, but all of my printers here have the

>>>> option "Print to file" which does save it as a .prn file.

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

>>>> Conflicts start where information lacks.

>>>> http://basconotw.mvps.org/

>>>>

>>>> Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

>>>> How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

>>>>

>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message

>>>> news:OnKgwxT5HHA.5360@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>> The man needs to print to file (a PRN file, I think, not text file) from a DOS

>>>>> app, something that he can then send to the printer from Windows. Generic Text

>>>>> to File won't help. Unfortunately, Jerry knows more about it than I or most

>>>>> others here do.

>>>>>

>>>>> Hey, Jerry... I have a couple of old dot matrix printers... or maybe my Dad has

>>>>> them now. Might be the simplest solution to find a used one, not that it's that

>>>>> simple, <g>. You still have an LPT port?

>>>>>

>>>>> --

>>>>> Gary S. Terhune

>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User

>>>>> http://www.grystmill.com

>>>>>

>>>>> "RobertVA" <robert_c72athotmail@invalid.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:%231dG0lT5HHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> Jerry Bank wrote:

>>>>>>> In article <uGTPy5J5HHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, JRichards@msn.com.au

>>>>>>> says...

>>>>>>>> You requirement is not quite clear. Does the file you are creating have to

>>>>>>>> be a print file for a particular type of printer? This would a file that

>>>>>>>> you then transfer to another machine that has that type of printer attached,

>>>>>>>> and copy to that printer in order to print it.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Or are you trying to use a print procedure to create a certain document

>>>>>>>> type, such as plain text or postscript or PDF?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Let me explain precisely what I am trying to do. I have an ancient dos

>>>>>>> program that I use to do accounting for a very small business. I would like

>>>>>>> to continue using it. However, while it was able to print its reports to my

>>>>>>> old dot-matrix printer, it really can't handle my current laser printer.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The program itself only prints to lpt1. Previously I used the simple program

>>>>>>> prn2dos, which sent the printing to a file, which I then edited and printed

>>>>>>> out in Windows. Since upgrading my computer it no longer works.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I have been trying to find a way to do this task. I did find a program

>>>>>>> called dos2usb, but it only works erratically.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to how I can solve this

>>>>>>> problem.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Thanks.

>>>>>> Have your tried installing the Generic Text to file "printer"

>>>>>>

>>>>>> You would only need to click a file name and press the "Enter" key when the

>>>>>> file name dialog appears.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

August 23, 2007

Re: Dummy printer

Re: Dummy printer

Reading the thread on problems printing from DOS under XP, I found the

following:

http://www.dosprn.com/

Looks like it should do what Jerry wants. Oh, I see you already got to that

one. OK, I'll just go ahead and go to my doctor's appointment. Everything

seems under control here, <s>.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

> http://www1.itrc.hp.com/service/james/search.do?todo=search&searchtext=print+in+dos&from=bsdforums&origin=0&wpa=forums1.itrc.hp.com%3A80&searchcategory=ALL&hpl=1&searchcriteria=allwords&rn=25&source=7000&presort=rank&chkServStor=on&esc=support.itrc.hp.com&admit=-682735245+1187885973664+28353475

"Brian A." <gonefish'n@afarawaylake> wrote in message

news:OsZLgGa5HHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Instead of my mumble jumble, have a look-see here:

>

> or: http://tinyurl.com/235suz

>

> --

>

> Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }

> Conflicts start where information lacks.