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Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?


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Guest O.J. Newman
Posted

Hello:

 

The system requirements listed on the Windows ME box are noticeably less

than the system requirements listed on the Windows XP SP2 Home Edition box.

 

Also, many software packages that still support both Windows ME and Windows

XP list noticeably less systems requirements to run on Windows ME as opposed

to running on Windows XP.

 

If I were to downgrade my operating system from Windows XP SP2 Home to

Windows ME, would I notice improved performance (speed) in running my PC, as

the systems requirements are less?

 

My system main specs are:

 

AMD Athlon XP 2200 CPU

1 GB DDR RAM (the max for this MB)

100 GB HD, 7200 RPM, 2 MB cache.

 

Does anyone have any ideas about this, or is this just a very dumb idea?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

O.J.

Guest Mike M
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

> Does anyone have any ideas about this, or is this just a very dumb

> idea?

 

Yes and yes.

 

Whilst Win Me is less resource heavy than XP it, in common with all Win 9x

operating systems, has major problems, especially in the areas of

resources, that unless you have a very specific requirement for a Win 9x

system that cannot be solved by running in Compatibility Mode in XP then I

wouldn't bother dropping back to Win Me. Note that with 1GB of RAM

installed you would have to modify the file system.ini and limit Win Me's

vcache to 512MB otherwise you would run out of upper memory address space

although all of your RAM would continue to be available for caching data.

Similarly if your XP system is using the NTFS filing system you would have

to reformat your drives to use FAT32 as Win Me is unable to read or write

to NTFS volumes.

--

Mike Maltby

mike.maltby@gmail.com

 

 

O.J. Newman <ojn@zoominternet.net> wrote:

> Hello:

>

> The system requirements listed on the Windows ME box are noticeably

> less than the system requirements listed on the Windows XP SP2 Home

> Edition box.

> Also, many software packages that still support both Windows ME and

> Windows XP list noticeably less systems requirements to run on

> Windows ME as opposed to running on Windows XP.

>

> If I were to downgrade my operating system from Windows XP SP2 Home to

> Windows ME, would I notice improved performance (speed) in running my

> PC, as the systems requirements are less?

>

> My system main specs are:

>

> AMD Athlon XP 2200 CPU

> 1 GB DDR RAM (the max for this MB)

> 100 GB HD, 7200 RPM, 2 MB cache.

>

> Does anyone have any ideas about this, or is this just a very dumb

> idea?

> Thanks in advance.

>

> O.J.

Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

 

"O.J. Newman" <ojn@zoominternet.net> wrote in message

news:uVMnYPA6HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Hello:

>

> The system requirements listed on the Windows ME box are noticeably less

> than the system requirements listed on the Windows XP SP2 Home Edition

box.

>

> Also, many software packages that still support both Windows ME and

Windows

> XP list noticeably less systems requirements to run on Windows ME as

opposed

> to running on Windows XP.

>

> If I were to downgrade my operating system from Windows XP SP2 Home to

> Windows ME, would I notice improved performance (speed) in running my PC,

as

> the systems requirements are less?

>

> My system main specs are:

>

> AMD Athlon XP 2200 CPU

> 1 GB DDR RAM (the max for this MB)

> 100 GB HD, 7200 RPM, 2 MB cache.

>

> Does anyone have any ideas about this, or is this just a very dumb idea?

>

 

 

It would be a horrible mistake to use WindowsME.

 

XP is Microsoft at it's best while ME is Microsoft at it's worst.

 

Your machine has plenty good specs for running XP...

chances are you have too much running at startup (run msconfig and take out

most startup apps)

Also go into Contol Panel and adjust for best performance.

 

If you insist on downgrading your OS,,,

I suggest Windows2000. It's pretty much the same OS as XP...

but uses about the same resources as WinME

Guest astroncer@yahoo.com
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

 

O.J. Newman wrote:

> Hello:

>

> The system requirements listed on the Windows ME box are noticeably less

> than the system requirements listed on the Windows XP SP2 Home Edition box.

>

> Also, many software packages that still support both Windows ME and Windows

> XP list noticeably less systems requirements to run on Windows ME as opposed

> to running on Windows XP.

>

> If I were to downgrade my operating system from Windows XP SP2 Home to

> Windows ME, would I notice improved performance (speed) in running my PC, as

> the systems requirements are less?

>

> My system main specs are:

>

> AMD Athlon XP 2200 CPU

> 1 GB DDR RAM (the max for this MB)

> 100 GB HD, 7200 RPM, 2 MB cache.

>

> Does anyone have any ideas about this, or is this just a very dumb idea?

>

 

I wouldn't recommend it. You have plenty of horse power.

 

I find that WindowsMe always craps out at some point in time. I've had

XP going well for until

I want to change the partitioning scheme which goes about a year at a

time.

 

I have XP on a 733 MHz Pentium with 318 MB of ram and it works about

pretty fast. Tweak a few things and I will claim it is as fast and

acts much much more stable, at least on my system.

 

You could try having both systems at once and confirm for yourself

what you would like to do.

 

WindowsMe is always on the first (C:) partition.

Guest astroncer@yahoo.com
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

 

O.J. Newman wrote:

> Hello:

>

> The system requirements listed on the Windows ME box are noticeably less

> than the system requirements listed on the Windows XP SP2 Home Edition box.

>

> Also, many software packages that still support both Windows ME and Windows

> XP list noticeably less systems requirements to run on Windows ME as opposed

> to running on Windows XP.

>

> If I were to downgrade my operating system from Windows XP SP2 Home to

> Windows ME, would I notice improved performance (speed) in running my PC, as

> the systems requirements are less?

>

> My system main specs are:

>

> AMD Athlon XP 2200 CPU

> 1 GB DDR RAM (the max for this MB)

> 100 GB HD, 7200 RPM, 2 MB cache.

>

> Does anyone have any ideas about this, or is this just a very dumb idea?

>

 

You can change settings to get an overall faster XP. Works well with

my 733 pentium and 318 MB of RAM

Guest Greegor
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

On Aug 26, 10:12 pm, astron...@yahoo.com wrote:

> O.J. Newman wrote:

> > Hello:

>

> > The system requirements listed on the Windows ME box are noticeably less

> > than the system requirements listed on the Windows XP SP2 Home Edition box.

>

> > Also, many software packages that still support both Windows ME and Windows

> > XP list noticeably less systems requirements to run on Windows ME as opposed

> > to running on Windows XP.

>

> > If I were to downgrade my operating system from Windows XP SP2 Home to

> > Windows ME, would I notice improved performance (speed) in running my PC, as

> > the systems requirements are less?

>

> > My system main specs are:

>

> > AMD Athlon XP 2200 CPU

> > 1 GB DDR RAM (the max for this MB)

> > 100 GB HD, 7200 RPM, 2 MB cache.

>

> > Does anyone have any ideas about this, or is this just a very dumb idea?

>

> You can change settings to get an overall faster XP. Works well with

> my 733 pentium and 318 MB of RAM

 

With WinME I don't have to "register" with Microsoft

over the net each time I install the system. I'm legal

but it still irks me off. Is it true that with XP you have

to register with MS when you install 3rd party application

programs also? XP Pro doesn't make you re-register as much?

 

My Dad got a new name brand system with OEM

Vista, booted it up once and let it sit for weeks.

 

When he got back to it the machine wouldn't even boot.

 

Vista had apparently decided that it was not legitimate

and had locked itself down.

 

It took some bizarre validation crap, HOURS on the phone

just to get it back in operation, all this designed to

protect the financial interests of Microsoft.

On an OEM version that came with a new brand name computer?

Rediculous!

 

Most people don't even know the difference

between notepad and Wordpad which is included.

Do you know what most people actually USE their computer for?

Browser, notepad, YouTube FLV's, Myspace (yech)

and an occasional MP3. Some actually use their DVD player.

Guest Mike M
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

> Is it true that with XP you have

> to register with MS when you install 3rd party application

> programs also?

 

No, where did you get that idea from?

> XP Pro doesn't make you re-register as much?

 

You don't need to register any Microsoft product, this is voluntary, what

you do need to do is "activate" within a given number of days of

installing, the purpose of which is to try and prevent the same key being

used at the same time on more than one PC. Making hardware changes may or

may not trigger the need to reactivate. XP Pro and XP Home are identical

in this respect as is Office 2002 and 2003. Vista and Office 2007 use a

different model many details of which are not yet known.

 

In addition, and more contentious, is WGA which is alleged to mean

"Windows Genuine Advantage", apparently for the end user but in truth to

the advantage of no-one other than Microsoft. This a periodic check that

unless passed prevents a user from downloading certain files from the

Microsoft Download Centre and also optional (but not security and critical

patches) from the Windows Update site. Vista has a more aggressive

version of WGA which if a machine fails the test, even though activated,

causes not only dire messages, warranted or not, to appear on the desktop

about the risk of using pirated software but also puts the system in a

restricted mode, disabling for example Vista's Aero interface.

--

Mike Maltby

mike.maltby@gmail.com

 

 

Greegor <Greegor47@gmail.com> wrote:

> With WinME I don't have to "register" with Microsoft

> over the net each time I install the system. I'm legal

> but it still irks me off. Is it true that with XP you have

> to register with MS when you install 3rd party application

> programs also? XP Pro doesn't make you re-register as much?

>

> My Dad got a new name brand system with OEM

> Vista, booted it up once and let it sit for weeks.

>

> When he got back to it the machine wouldn't even boot.

>

> Vista had apparently decided that it was not legitimate

> and had locked itself down.

>

> It took some bizarre validation crap, HOURS on the phone

> just to get it back in operation, all this designed to

> protect the financial interests of Microsoft.

> On an OEM version that came with a new brand name computer?

> Rediculous!

>

> Most people don't even know the difference

> between notepad and Wordpad which is included.

> Do you know what most people actually USE their computer for?

> Browser, notepad, YouTube FLV's, Myspace (yech)

> and an occasional MP3. Some actually use their DVD player.

Guest Greegor
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

So far, the only disadvantages I can see for somebody

going from XP to an ME is that they would have to

turn off their computer once a day, (Oh no!) and if they

have a dual or quad processor ME can't make use of that.

>From a consumer standpoint what does hyperthreading

really do? Is it like multiple processors, just a speed thing?

 

To an ordinary shmuck running a Browser, Wordpad,

YouTube and Myspace (yech) the most demanding

applications are Virus/Spyware scanning and Scandisk/Defrag.

 

How would THOSE applications run differently from

Windows XP to Windows ME on the very same 700 MHz computer?

> > Is it true that with XP you have

> > to register with MS when you install 3rd party application

> > programs also?

 

Mike Maltby > No, where did you get that idea from?

 

A consumer. I listen to them. Was it false information?

> > XP Pro doesn't make you re-register as much?

>

> You don't need to register any Microsoft product, this is voluntary,

 

Why does it not feel voluntary? Part of obtaining update PATCH files?

> what you do need to do is "activate" within a

> given number of days of installing,

 

What exactly is the difference between registering and "activating"?

> the purpose of which is to try and prevent the same key being

> used at the same time on more than one PC.

 

Isn't this more of a problem in other countries?

The Chinese crackers will have it bypassed within months anyway.

WHY put legit customers through this hassle?

> Making hardware changes may or

> may not trigger the need to reactivate. XP Pro and XP Home are identical

> in this respect as is Office 2002 and 2003. Vista and Office 2007 use a

> different model many details of which are not yet known.

>

> In addition, and more contentious, is WGA which is alleged to mean

> "Windows Genuine Advantage", apparently for the end user but in truth to

> the advantage of no-one other than Microsoft. This a periodic check that

> unless passed prevents a user from downloading certain files from the

> Microsoft Download Centre and also optional (but not security and critical

> patches) from the Windows Update site.

 

Is this WGA in Windows XP?

How long did it take the Chinese and Russians to bypass this crap?

But if a US Citizen consumer bypasses this crap are they

computer criminals?

 

> Vista has a more aggressive

> version of WGA which if a machine fails the test, even though activated,

> causes not only dire messages, warranted or not, to appear on the desktop

> about the risk of using pirated software but also puts the system in a

> restricted mode, disabling for example Vista's Aero interface.

 

And if a person replaces the main board they have to deal with this?

If a person has a main board die, does the Windows die with it?

If the main board is replaced with a faster board, in the same

machine, is Microsoft entitled to sell another Windows license?

This junk gets set off merely by changing add-in boards?

Rediculous!

> > Most people don't even know the difference

> > between notepad and Wordpad which is included.

> > Do you know what most people actually USE their computer for?

> > Browser, notepad, YouTube FLV's, Myspace (yech)

> > and an occasional MP3. Some actually use their DVD player.

 

And most people just use the Windows that came with

their computer when they bought it.

 

This is the main reason that I find the Microsoft

security to be overbearing.

 

The Chinese and the Russians will probably have this

""High Security"" bypassed within months anyway!

> Greegor <Greego...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > With WinME I don't have to "register" with Microsoft

> > over the net each time I install the system. I'm legal

> > but it still irks me off. Is it true that with XP you have

> > to register with MS when you install 3rd party application

> > programs also? XP Pro doesn't make you re-register as much?

>

> > My Dad got a new name brand system with OEM

> > Vista, booted it up once and let it sit for weeks.

>

> > When he got back to it the machine wouldn't even boot.

>

> > Vista had apparently decided that it was not legitimate

> > and had locked itself down.

>

> > It took some bizarre validation crap, HOURS on the phone

> > just to get it back in operation, all this designed to

> > protect the financial interests of Microsoft.

> > On an OEM version that came with a new brand name computer?

> > Rediculous!

>

> > Most people don't even know the difference

> > between notepad and Wordpad which is included.

> > Do you know what most people actually USE their computer for?

> > Browser, notepad, YouTube FLV's, Myspace (yech)

> > and an occasional MP3. Some actually use their DVD player.

Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

 

"Greegor" <Greegor47@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1188307418.747001.238750@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...

> So far, the only disadvantages I can see for somebody

> going from XP to an ME is that they would have to

> turn off their computer once a day, (Oh no!) and if they

> have a dual or quad processor ME can't make use of that.

 

and no software being produce for it (e.g. itunes)

 

>

>>From a consumer standpoint what does hyperthreading

> really do? Is it like multiple processors, just a speed thing?

>

> To an ordinary shmuck running a Browser, Wordpad,

> YouTube and Myspace (yech) the most demanding

> applications are Virus/Spyware scanning and Scandisk/Defrag.

>

> How would THOSE applications run differently from

> Windows XP to Windows ME on the very same 700 MHz computer?

\

 

Those applications will eventually not load on a ME machine. Gaming mauliplayer games is

coming to a screeching end as punkbuster is killing the '98' support.

>

>> > Is it true that with XP you have

>> > to register with MS when you install 3rd party application

>> > programs also?

 

NO, !

>

> Mike Maltby > No, where did you get that idea from?

>

> A consumer. I listen to them. Was it false information?

>

>> > XP Pro doesn't make you re-register as much?

>>

>> You don't need to register any Microsoft product, this is voluntary,

>

> Why does it not feel voluntary? Part of obtaining update PATCH files?

 

registration total voluntary....ACTIVATION is required

>

Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

 

"Greegor" <Greegor47@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1188307418.747001.238750@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...

> So far, the only disadvantages I can see for somebody

> going from XP to an ME is that they would have to

> turn off their computer once a day, (Oh no!) and if they

> have a dual or quad processor ME can't make use of that.

>

WinME also can't make use of RAM over 512MB, and can't run certain apps. If

you don't run those newer, or memory hog programs then it doesn't matter

much.

The other advantage of XP is it is supposed to be a lot more secure. If you

install certain hardware and software designed to help prevent hacking (most

users don't), it shouldn't matter much.

>>From a consumer standpoint what does hyperthreading

> really do? Is it like multiple processors, just a speed thing?

>

> To an ordinary shmuck running a Browser, Wordpad,

> YouTube and Myspace (yech) the most demanding

> applications are Virus/Spyware scanning and Scandisk/Defrag.

>

> How would THOSE applications run differently from

> Windows XP to Windows ME on the very same 700 MHz computer?

>

There likely wouldn't be any noticeable speed difference running the same

apps on the same PC with a different OS. Of course there are the OS

requirement issues (IE7 will not install on WinME), and depending on

configuration one OS could be faster on startup/shutdown.

>> > Is it true that with XP you have

>> > to register with MS when you install 3rd party application

>> > programs also?

>

> Mike Maltby > No, where did you get that idea from?

>

> A consumer. I listen to them. Was it false information?

 

You never have to register XP. You do have to activate it once. You have

to reactivate it if you reinstall it or make significant hardware changes.

You should never have to activate or register the OS when installing

applications.

>> > XP Pro doesn't make you re-register as much?

>>

>> You don't need to register any Microsoft product, this is voluntary,

>

> Why does it not feel voluntary? Part of obtaining update PATCH files?

>

Again, registering is optional, activation is mandatory. You must activate

before installing patches. You only need to register if you want Microsoft

to know who you are, such as if you want them to provide you with any

official support.

>> what you do need to do is "activate" within a

>> given number of days of installing,

>

> What exactly is the difference between registering and "activating"?

>

Activating is a simple mouse click if you have an internet connection

active, or a phone call to get an activation ID to type in if you don't.

Registration (optional) is regular registery stuff, giving them your

name/number/etc so they know who you are if you want them to help you with

any issues you have with the OS.

>> the purpose of which is to try and prevent the same key being

>> used at the same time on more than one PC.

>

> Isn't this more of a problem in other countries?

> The Chinese crackers will have it bypassed within months anyway.

> WHY put legit customers through this hassle?

>

Nearly every application has a registration process for their records for

support purposes.

Activation should be a minimal hassle attempt to verify that each copy sold

is only in use on one PC at a time. It is not intended to be foolproof. It

has certainly been hacked by now. XP has been out for years. Vista came

out about 7 months ago. It is a little annoyance designed to get Microsoft

more money for their trouble, expecting the average schmuck will buy one

copy for each PC they want to use it on. Anyone who does not want to give

them their money can go to the extra hassle of getting a hack, or stick with

the free OS. For free, you can either stick with the disk copying/pirating

of the older OS that did not have activation (Win95/98/ME) or get a copy of

Linux.

>> Making hardware changes may or

>> may not trigger the need to reactivate. XP Pro and XP Home are identical

>> in this respect as is Office 2002 and 2003. Vista and Office 2007 use a

>> different model many details of which are not yet known.

>>

>> In addition, and more contentious, is WGA which is alleged to mean

>> "Windows Genuine Advantage", apparently for the end user but in truth to

>> the advantage of no-one other than Microsoft. This a periodic check that

>> unless passed prevents a user from downloading certain files from the

>> Microsoft Download Centre and also optional (but not security and

>> critical

>> patches) from the Windows Update site.

>

> Is this WGA in Windows XP?

> How long did it take the Chinese and Russians to bypass this crap?

> But if a US Citizen consumer bypasses this crap are they

> computer criminals?

 

Anyone who hacks software is a computer criminal, though such crimes can be

much harder to prosecute in other countries.

The Chinese have been working for years now just to shut down DVD pirating

operations.

One way or the other, the consumer always pays for the pirates. Either you

pay a little more for the software because they'll sell fewer copies, you

spend a little more time on the software jumping through hoops designed to

minimize hacking, and/or you pay some more taxes for the government to hunt

the hackers.

>> Vista has a more aggressive

>> version of WGA which if a machine fails the test, even though activated,

>> causes not only dire messages, warranted or not, to appear on the desktop

>> about the risk of using pirated software but also puts the system in a

>> restricted mode, disabling for example Vista's Aero interface.

>

> And if a person replaces the main board they have to deal with this?

> If a person has a main board die, does the Windows die with it?

> If the main board is replaced with a faster board, in the same

> machine, is Microsoft entitled to sell another Windows license?

> This junk gets set off merely by changing add-in boards?

> Rediculous!

>

You don't buy another license. You have to reactivate if you change

significant hardware, because activation gives Microsoft the basic specs of

your hardware to help verify which machine the software is installed on in

an attempt to minimize the odds of installing the same OS on multiple

machines, because operating systems are sold for individual machines. Some

games, particularly internet games, have similar methods to help prevent

running on multiple machines simultaneously. They're just trying to get you

the average schmuck to give them more money for their development efforts,

even though Microsoft donates much of it's earnings to charity.

>> > Most people don't even know the difference

>> > between notepad and Wordpad which is included.

>> > Do you know what most people actually USE their computer for?

>> > Browser, notepad, YouTube FLV's, Myspace (yech)

>> > and an occasional MP3. Some actually use their DVD player.

>

> And most people just use the Windows that came with

> their computer when they bought it.

>

> This is the main reason that I find the Microsoft

> security to be overbearing.

>

> The Chinese and the Russians will probably have this

> ""High Security"" bypassed within months anyway!

>

Many people find Vista overbearing, with it's attempt to prevent hacking by

prompting you every single time you want to do something. The piracy

prevention in XP should be a minimal hassle, but if you find it too much

trouble you can always try using an older OS or a free one. If you really

want to understand, try writing your own OS and see how long it takes. That

should certainly make the extra click or two seem much more reasonable.

Guest Greegor
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

Eric at Microsoft wrote

> If you really want to understand, try writing your own

> OS and see how long it takes. That should certainly

> make the extra click or two seem much more reasonable.

 

Or I could just buy it from a guy named Patterson! (tongue in cheek)

Gates bought DOS the way whites ""bought"" Manhattan with beads.

Now you want to pretend Microsoft respects programmers?

 

Eric, you SERIOUSLY underestimated my background.

 

I used MITS Altair BASIC (legally) and I have half forgotten more

programming languages than most programmers will ever know.

 

You said "Anyone who hacks software is a computer criminal".

 

Was that an oversimplification or a semantics problem?

The DVD producers tried to say people could not make

digital backups of DVD's they owned. They lost.

Would you be so brave as to say that all copying of DVDs is criminal?

 

I suspect your definition of hack is different from mine.

 

I haven't called myself a hacker since Time Magazine

changed the meaning to be malicious and criminal.

 

I ran several computer stores and I know very well

the difference between people's technolust reasons

for buying fast computers and the PRACTICAL reality.

 

You think YouTube and Myspace will eventually

cease to work for people with Windows ME?

 

So far, the main thing on the web that I've seen

that doesn't work well on old machines/ME is

MICROSOFT video stuff. How convenient!

 

Microsoft chokes on its own excess.

 

If I were to recode a LEGAL Windows ME so that it

actually runs more than 24 hours without crashing,

are you honestly going to call me a hacker criminal?

 

If I was some programmer IN INDIA and had to deal

with excessive registration/activation time waste

I would be very MOTIVATED to bypass it.

 

Have no fear though, I have no intentions of

ripping off Microsoft.

 

Let me know when you produce some bug free code.

Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

 

"Greegor" <Greegor47@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1188321761.199992.53680@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

> Eric at Microsoft wrote

>> If you really want to understand, try writing your own

>> OS and see how long it takes. That should certainly

>> make the extra click or two seem much more reasonable.

>

> Or I could just buy it from a guy named Patterson! (tongue in cheek)

> Gates bought DOS the way whites ""bought"" Manhattan with beads.

> Now you want to pretend Microsoft respects programmers?

>

> Eric, you SERIOUSLY underestimated my background.

>

> I used MITS Altair BASIC (legally) and I have half forgotten more

> programming languages than most programmers will ever know.

>

I'm not underestimating anyone. If you think writing your own OS is simpler

than clicking the button (or making the phone call and typing in a key) to

activate XP, go for it.

 

Of course Vista is an entirely different animal with supposedly a lot more

positives, and a lot more annoying "features". I certainly don't want to

click ok to confirm every program I want to run. If you can't turn off

things like that, it would certainly discourage most of us from using it,

and encourage some to actually write their own OS's. No one said you

couldn't write your own OS (think you can do better than Linux?) but if you

haven't already, you may (like most people) find it simpler to give MS the

money they demand.

 

Many people got their start from a shady acquisition. If you don't want to

support MS because you don't like how they built their business, add one

moral reason to justify not paying them. It's all a question of values.

How much do your money, your time, your moral high grounds matter to you?

> You said "Anyone who hacks software is a computer criminal".

>

> Was that an oversimplification or a semantics problem?

> The DVD producers tried to say people could not make

> digital backups of DVD's they owned. They lost.

> Would you be so brave as to say that all copying of DVDs is criminal?

>

> I suspect your definition of hack is different from mine.

>

> I haven't called myself a hacker since Time Magazine

> changed the meaning to be malicious and criminal.

>

Hacker, at least by today's standards, typically does mean criminal. In

China they make copies of DVDs and make them look like the original and sell

them on the street for a fraction of the price. I wouldn't consider it a

crime if you manage to make a copy of a DVD for your own backup purposes,

though it is still a crime if you bought a license agreement with it that

says under no circumstances are you to make a copy (I suspect they'll only

prosecute if you attempt to sell the copies or distribute on the web). They

released an iPhone with an agreement with AT&T that it would only work on

their network. Some kid hacked it already so it works with any provider.

If they released the phone with a written statement that it must only be

used with AT&T, then that hack is illegal. Apparently they didn't write

that in the sale agreement, since the kid got a car for his efforts.

 

If you want a computer, and your friend wants a computer, you each have to

buy one. If you want an OS on it, and your friend wants an OS on it, you

can share a copy. This always made the software company feel like they were

losing money. Since each family or group of friends still bought at least

one copy, they were still selling millions so it wasn't a big concern. XP

came out after the internet, when a growing number of people were getting

high speed connections, so pirating was a much bigger concern. Thus they

invented the activation thing. It is still possible to hack the software so

you don't have to activate, but it is illegal, and it is too much trouble

for the average user.

> I ran several computer stores and I know very well

> the difference between people's technolust reasons

> for buying fast computers and the PRACTICAL reality.

>

> You think YouTube and Myspace will eventually

> cease to work for people with Windows ME?

>

> So far, the main thing on the web that I've seen

> that doesn't work well on old machines/ME is

> MICROSOFT video stuff. How convenient!

>

> Microsoft chokes on its own excess.

>

> If I were to recode a LEGAL Windows ME so that it

> actually runs more than 24 hours without crashing,

> are you honestly going to call me a hacker criminal?

>

> If I was some programmer IN INDIA and had to deal

> with excessive registration/activation time waste

> I would be very MOTIVATED to bypass it.

>

> Have no fear though, I have no intentions of

> ripping off Microsoft.

>

> Let me know when you produce some bug free code.

>

If you recode WinME and their license agreement says not to, then yes you

would be a hacker criminal. If there is no written statement sold with it

which specifically prohibits your action, you may still be "hacking code"

but it is most likely not a criminal action.

 

The only reasons WinME normally crashes is hardware failure or user error.

WinXP crashes less because they made it more stable. WinME is based on

Win95. WinXP is based on WinNT. WinXP makes it harder for the average user

to screw things up. WinME can be stable if you know what you're doing.

 

Web sites should always work on WinME unless they require software which

does not work on ME, such as a new version of IE or Flash... or unless they

recode the web so it doesn't work with the older OSs which won't happen

anytime soon. They have a committee set up to figure out a way to fix the

web, so they can track the hackers and prevent spam and identity theft, but

they've been working on it for years and it will be a few more...

Guest Greegor
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

Eric at Microsoft wrote

> >> If you really want to understand, try writing your own

> >> OS and see how long it takes. That should certainly

> >> make the extra click or two seem much more reasonable.

 

G > Or I could just buy it from a guy named Patterson! (tongue in

cheek)

G > Gates bought DOS the way whites ""bought"" Manhattan with beads.

G > Now you want to pretend Microsoft respects programmers?

 

G > Eric, you SERIOUSLY underestimated my background.

 

G > I used MITS Altair BASIC (legally) and I have half forgotten more

G > programming languages than most programmers will ever know.

 

Greg wrote

> I'm not underestimating anyone. If you think writing your own OS is simpler

> than clicking the button (or making the phone call and typing in a key) to

> activate XP, go for it.

>

> Of course Vista is an entirely different animal with supposedly a lot more

> positives, and a lot more annoying "features". I certainly don't want to

> click ok to confirm every program I want to run. If you can't turn off

> things like that, it would certainly discourage most of us from using it,

> and encourage some to actually write their own OS's. No one said you

> couldn't write your own OS

 

That's called a canard isn't it?

> (think you can do better than Linux?) but if you

> haven't already, you may (like most people) find it simpler to give MS the

> money they demand.

>

> Many people got their start from a shady acquisition. If you don't want to

> support MS because you don't like how they built their business, add one

> moral reason to justify not paying them. It's all a question of values.

> How much do your money, your time, your moral high grounds matter to you?

 

You were the one who made snarky comments as if

only a programmer could appreciate how hard the programmers

(IN INDIA) worked to create the latest Microsoft product.

 

I don't need any moral high ground, I was just puncturing your

rarified gases.

 

Eric said "Anyone who hacks software is a computer criminal".

 

G > Was that an oversimplification or a semantics problem?

G > The DVD producers tried to say people could not make

G > digital backups of DVD's they owned. They lost.

G > Would you be so brave as to say that all copying of DVDs is

criminal?

 

G > I suspect your definition of hack is different from mine.

 

G > I haven't called myself a hacker since Time Magazine

G > changed the meaning to be malicious and criminal.

 

Eric wrote

> Hacker, at least by today's standards, typically does mean criminal. In

> China they make copies of DVDs and make them look like the original and sell

> them on the street for a fraction of the price. I wouldn't consider it a

> crime

 

What difference does it make what YOU consider to be a crime?

What's criminal and what's not is for the most part NOT up for your

interpretation.

> if you manage to make a copy of a DVD for your own backup purposes,

> though it is still a crime if

 

Shrink wrap pronouncements again?

Do you HONESTLY believe they determine whether or not

the actions are against US CRIMINAL law?

> you bought a license agreement with it that

> says under no circumstances are you to make a copy

 

In light of case law this would be an unenforceable contract term.

It IS legal to load DVD's onto one of those nice new big hard

disks, play them over and over on the computer and

keep your originals in pristine condition nearby.

> (I suspect they'll only

> prosecute if you attempt to sell the copies or distribute on the web). They

> released an iPhone with an agreement with AT&T that it would only work on

> their network. Some kid hacked it already so it works with any provider.

> If they released the phone with a written statement that it must only be

> used with AT&T, then that hack is illegal.

 

NO! It's an illegal restraint of trade, an ILLEGAL contract

stipulation.

And don't get me started about how a "written statement"

is not a considered contract. (Shades of shrink wrap licenses!)

 

Apple wouldn't stand a chance of enforcing their monopolistic

practice.

 

And they KNOW it.

> Apparently they didn't write that in the sale agreement,

> since the kid got a car for his efforts.

 

He cited a law that says unlocking cell phones is legal.

It's open season on such dirty rotten restraint of trade practices!

> If you want a computer, and your friend wants a computer, you each have to

> buy one. If you want an OS on it, and your friend wants an OS on it, you

> can share a copy. This always made the software company feel like they were

> losing money.

 

Of the THOUSANDS of computers I have sold as a dealer,

every one had a legal Microsoft OS with it.

> Since each family or group of friends still bought at least

> one copy, they were still selling millions so it wasn't a big concern. XP

> came out after the internet, when a growing number of people were getting

> high speed connections, so pirating was a much bigger concern. Thus they

> invented the activation thing. It is still possible to hack the software so

> you don't have to activate, but it is illegal, and it is too much trouble

> for the average user.

 

Why would it be illegal if it was done without the theft?

As I said I am not interested in stealing anything.

If I made such a modification to eliminate the hassle

you're saying that I would be a criminal?

Even without STEALING a copy of it?

 

I understand that to do so for the purpose of STEALING

would be evidence of intent, but the crime would not

be that, but the actual theft.

> > I ran several computer stores and I know very well

> > the difference between people's technolust reasons

> > for buying fast computers and the PRACTICAL reality.

>

> > You think YouTube and Myspace will eventually

> > cease to work for people with Windows ME?

>

> > So far, the main thing on the web that I've seen

> > that doesn't work well on old machines/ME is

> > MICROSOFT video stuff. How convenient!

>

> > Microsoft chokes on its own excess.

>

> > If I were to recode a LEGAL Windows ME so that it

> > actually runs more than 24 hours without crashing,

> > are you honestly going to call me a hacker criminal?

>

> > If I was some programmer IN INDIA and had to deal

> > with excessive registration/activation time waste

> > I would be very MOTIVATED to bypass it.

>

> > Have no fear though, I have no intentions of

> > ripping off Microsoft.

>

> > Let me know when you produce some bug free code.

 

Eric wrote

> If you recode WinME and their license agreement

> says not to, then yes you would be a hacker criminal.

 

Contract violation is very different from CRIME.

Lots of contract terms are legally unenforceable.

This would be one of those.

> If there is no written statement sold with it which specifically

> prohibits your action, you may still be "hacking code"

> but it is most likely not a criminal action.

 

So you honestly think that a shrink wrap pronouncement is law?

It's not even binding contract.

> The only reasons WinME normally crashes is hardware failure or user error.

> WinXP crashes less because they made it more stable. WinME is based on

> Win95. WinXP is based on WinNT. WinXP makes it harder for the average user

> to screw things up. WinME can be stable if you know what you're doing.

 

Was the memory leak ever fixed?

> Web sites should always work on WinME unless they require software which

> does not work on ME, such as a new version of IE or Flash... or unless they

> recode the web so it doesn't work with the older OSs which won't happen

> anytime soon.

 

What I was pointing out before is that for a typical

consumer, running browser, Myspace, YouTube, Wordpad

antivirus/spyware killer, and scandisk/defrag, what

would be the real FUNCTIONAL difference between ME and XP?

 

This IS a discussion about WinME but I keep seeing

people making comments as if we are all GAMERS

and urgently need our own Cray supercomputer.

>From what I've found looking into the limits of WinME,

it looks like it's good for processors up to 7th generation.

A few will get up to 3.4 GHz.

WinME drops out when you get into hyperthreading

and dual/quad processors.

 

I was taught young that the ideal way to buy an

auto is when it's two years old because you

get 90% of the functional VALUE and about 90%

of the depreciation is already over.

 

When I ran computer stores I learned there's a huge

difference between the BUZZ/hype and what people

would actually buy.

 

I basically DO NOT want to buy the very latest

slightly overpriced technology.

 

I'm almost happier with technology that is

just slightly out of date.

 

The old 550 MHz computer I use to post this

actually has a faulty I/O chip, one of MILLIONS

of name brand computers produced for several

years under many brand names with that faulty I/O chip.

Bad capacitors too.

 

If I buy a 3.4 GHz Main Board that actually has

certified drivers for WinME, to upgrade it,

am I violating Microsoft's contractual license?

 

Of course I am also planning on buying XP Pro.

(Along with a memory chip)

Guest raconstine@yahoo.com
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

 

Greegor wrote:

> On Aug 26, 10:12 pm, astron...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > O.J. Newman wrote:

> > > Hello:

> >

> > > The system requirements listed on the Windows ME box are noticeably less

> > > than the system requirements listed on the Windows XP SP2 Home Edition box.

> >

> > > Also, many software packages that still support both Windows ME and Windows

> > > XP list noticeably less systems requirements to run on Windows ME as opposed

> > > to running on Windows XP.

> >

> > > If I were to downgrade my operating system from Windows XP SP2 Home to

> > > Windows ME, would I notice improved performance (speed) in running my PC, as

> > > the systems requirements are less?

> >

> > > My system main specs are:

> >

> > > AMD Athlon XP 2200 CPU

> > > 1 GB DDR RAM (the max for this MB)

> > > 100 GB HD, 7200 RPM, 2 MB cache.

> >

> > > Does anyone have any ideas about this, or is this just a very dumb idea?

> >

> > You can change settings to get an overall faster XP. Works well with

> > my 733 pentium and 318 MB of RAM

>

> With WinME I don't have to "register" with Microsoft

> over the net each time I install the system. I'm legal

> but it still irks me off.

 

I saw a winme in a thrift store, surely if it didn't have a key, you

could find a key to install though.

 

I under the impression that if you miskey the winme install, it will

let you get by, if it's 'close,'

> Is it true that with XP you have to register with MS when you install 3rd party application

> programs also?

 

I would see hardware maybe, software not so maybe.

>XP Pro doesn't make you re-register as much?

 

Proally not. How much do you have to register?

> My Dad got a new name brand system with OEM

> Vista, booted it up once and let it sit for weeks.

>

> When he got back to it the machine wouldn't even boot.

>

> Vista had apparently decided that it was not legitimate

> and had locked itself down.

 

I don't see that. Reinstall if confused

> It took some bizarre validation crap, HOURS on the phone

> just to get it back in operation, all this designed to

> protect the financial interests of Microsoft.

> On an OEM version that came with a new brand name computer?

> Rediculous!

 

Ditch MS. The closest thin I've found to ME and XP, is PcLinux. It's a

free OS, it's free, and it don't cost nothin.

> Most people don't even know the difference

> between notepad and Wordpad which is included.

 

I don't either, much, I've edited files with both, I guess.

> Do you know what most people actually USE their computer for?

 

This and that. I guess.

> Browser, notepad, YouTube FLV's, Myspace (yech)

> and an occasional MP3. Some actually use their DVD player.

 

I have no DVD, love music though. Grrr with flash,, my spaaace, is

thers'?

Guest Greegor
Posted

Re: Downgrading from Win XP to Win ME?

 

> I saw a winme in a thrift store, surely if it didn't have a key, you

> could find a key to install though.

>

> I under the impression that if you miskey the winme install, it will

> let you get by, if it's 'close,'

 

Doubtful. Probably have to be letter perfect.

> > Is it true that with XP you have to register with MS when you install 3rd party application programs also?

>

> I would see hardware maybe, software not so maybe.

>

> >XP Pro doesn't make you re-register as much?

>

> Proally not. How much do you have to register?

>

> > My Dad got a new name brand system with OEM

> > Vista, booted it up once and let it sit for weeks.

>

> > When he got back to it the machine wouldn't even boot.

>

> > Vista had apparently decided that it was not legitimate

> > and had locked itself down.

>

> I don't see that. Reinstall if confused

>

> > It took some bizarre validation crap, HOURS on the phone

> > just to get it back in operation, all this designed to

> > protect the financial interests of Microsoft.

> > On an OEM version that came with a new brand name computer?

> > Rediculous!

>

> Ditch MS. The closest thin I've found to ME and XP, is PcLinux. It's a

> free OS, it's free, and it don't cost nothin.

 

Is that what Lindows got renamed to when MS lost the law suit?

> > Most people don't even know the difference

> > between notepad and Wordpad which is included.

>

> I don't either, much, I've edited files with both, I guess.

 

Wordpad is one notch up from notepad and it's

included with 98SE and WinME. It has a few more

Word like features, and more format options for saving.

These save format options can help if trying to move

documents to another machine. I use them when I

want I save a legal document to a floppy to take to

our public library where I pretty it up on their

full blown Word 2000 and send it to their LASER printer.

 

C:\Program Files\Accessories\WORDPAD.EXE

> > Do you know what most people actually USE their computer for?

>

> This and that. I guess.

>

> > Browser, notepad, YouTube FLV's, Myspace (yech)

> > and an occasional MP3. Some actually use their DVD player.

>

> I have no DVD, love music though. Grrr with flash,, my spaaace, is

> thers'?

 

No, Myspace is not a Microsoft property (yet).

I just listed Google and Myspace as typical of consumer needs.

Flash works fine on WinMe, and third party .FLV players are out there

for people who use savetube.com

 

Is there some trouble obtaining a Flash player for

PcLinux?

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