Guest davdun75 Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot drive to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second "backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal operation; in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system simply by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive?
Guest Andrew E. Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 RE: Backup and HD cloning With an IDE hd,set as slave on the same IDE chain as C: Format the hd in xp,once thru,go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to all in the DOS window,once its thru,C: is now cloned to D: D: being the slave hd.If asigned diffrent letter,then use that letter.As for consistantly writing to the slave hd,one could schedule xp to consistantly backup to the slave hd,but then if xp is corrupted in any manner then so are the files its backing up with.I would clone as described and leave it as is.... "davdun75" wrote: > I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not > sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot drive > to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second > "backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal operation; > in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system simply > by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive?
Guest Pegasus \(MVP\) Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning Have you ever tried the method you recommend? It won't work, for the simple reason that many files are locked while Windows is up and running. The OP could use a cloning program such as Acronis TrueImage. "Andrew E." <eckrichco@msn.com> wrote in message news:773B77A3-2F61-4136-AFFD-6E288883B217@microsoft.com... > With an IDE hd,set as slave on the same IDE chain as C: Format the hd in > xp,once thru,go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to all in > the > DOS window,once its thru,C: is now cloned to D: D: being the slave hd.If > asigned diffrent letter,then use that letter.As for consistantly writing > to > the > slave hd,one could schedule xp to consistantly backup to the slave hd,but > then > if xp is corrupted in any manner then so are the files its backing up > with.I would > clone as described and leave it as is.... > > "davdun75" wrote: > >> I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not >> sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot >> drive >> to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that >> second >> "backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal >> operation; >> in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system >> simply >> by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive?
Guest Timothy Daniels Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning "davdun75" wrote: >I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not > sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot drive > to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second > "backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal operation; > in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system simply > by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive? Whatever you do, don't take any advice from "Andrew E.". He/she/it is a disinformation troll. Just check the Google archives of this NG. *TimDaniels*
Guest M.I.5¾ Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning "Andrew E." <eckrichco@msn.com> wrote in message news:773B77A3-2F61-4136-AFFD-6E288883B217@microsoft.com... > With an IDE hd,set as slave on the same IDE chain as C: Format the hd in > xp,once thru,go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to all in > the > DOS window,once its thru,C: is now cloned to D: D: being the slave hd.If > asigned diffrent letter,then use that letter.As for consistantly writing > to > the > slave hd,one could schedule xp to consistantly backup to the slave hd,but > then > if xp is corrupted in any manner then so are the files its backing up > with.I would > clone as described and leave it as is.... > > "davdun75" wrote: > Have you any idea the number of people/organisations that religiously backup their system and then when disaster strikes discover that their backup is totally useless because they overlooked something? Anyone you follows the above advice will join that unhappy group. A Windows installation cannot be backed up by merely copying all the files while it is running. Many important system files are protected from being opened by other applications and you can't copy them either.
Guest usasma Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning A fundamental step in devising a backup strategy is to ensure that it works - without that you're leaving the entire thing up to chance. I use Acronis True Image at home and at my wife's business to backup essential systems. We use SyncBackSE to backup data on a daily basis, then we copy the data to several different places (on system, on site, off site) to ensure that it's recoverable if we need it. As these are business systems and aren't hooked to the internet, they're relatively stable - so we don't have to image the drives very often. But the backups are essential and I test them periodically to ensure that they'll restore without any issues. - John "Timothy Daniels" wrote: > "davdun75" wrote: > >I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not > > sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot drive > > to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second > > "backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal operation; > > in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system simply > > by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive? > > Whatever you do, don't take any advice from "Andrew E.". > He/she/it is a disinformation troll. Just check the Google > archives of this NG. > > *TimDaniels* > > >
Guest Ken Blake Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning "davdun75" <davdun75@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:63DF2DFF-8A9A-4456-BBD9-298AB122AB1A@microsoft.com... >I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not > sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot > drive > to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second > "backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal > operation; > in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system > simply > by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive? What you are talking about is called "mirroring" and the normal way to accomplish it is with RAID 1. Read about RAID here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID RAID 1 (mirroring) is *not* a backup solution. RAID 1 uses two or more drives, each a duplicate of the others, to provide redundancy, not backup. It's used in situations (almost always within corporations, not in homes) where any downtown can't be tolerated, because the way it works is that if one drive fails the other takes over seamlessly. Although some people thing of RAID 1 as a backup technique, that is *not* what it is, since it's subject to simultaneous loss of the original and the mirror to many of the most common dangers threatening your data--severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks, theft of the computer, etc. Most companies that use RAID 1 also have a strong external backup plan in place. Here's my standard advice on backing up: First of all, almost everyone should be backing up regularly. It is always possible that a hard drive crash, user error, nearby lightning strike, virus attack, even theft of the computer, can cause the loss of everything on your drive. As has often been said, it's not a matter of whether you will have such a problem, but when. Essentially you should back up what you can't afford to lose--what you can't readily recreate. What that is depends on how you use your computer and what you use it for. It takes time and effort to backup, but it also takes time and effort to recreate lost data. If you back up daily, you should never have to recreate more than one day's worth of last data. If weekly, there's potentially a lot more to recreate. You should assess how much pain and trouble you would have if you lost x days of data, and then choose a backup frequency that doesn't involve more pain and trouble than that you would have if you had to recreate what was lost. Some things (photographs, for instance) can never be recreated, and more frequent backup may be wanted for them. At one extreme is the professional user who would likely go out of business if his data was lost. He probably needs to back up at least daily. At the other extreme is the kid who doesn't use his computer except to play games. He probably needs no backup at all, since worst case he can easily reinstall his games. Most of us fall somewhere between those extremes, but nobody can tell you where you fall; you need to determine that for yourself. Should you back up Windows? Should you back up your applications? Most people will tell you no, since you can always reinstall these easily from the original media. But I don't think the answer is so clear-cut. Many people have substantial time and effort invested in customizing Windows and configuring their apps to work the way they want to. Putting all of that back the way it was can be a difficult, time-consuming effort. Whether you should backup up Windows and apps depends, once again, on you. How to backup? What software to use? There are many choices, including the Windows-supplied backup program. Which choice is best for you depends at least in part on the answers to some of the questions above. Finally what backup media should you choose, and how should it be stored? There are many choices, including CDs, tape, zip drives, and second hard drives. I don't recommend backup to a second non-removable hard drive because it leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original and backup to many of the most common dangers: severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer. In my view, secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in the computer. For really secure backup (needed, for example, if the life of your business depends on your data) you should have multiple generations of backup, and at least one of those generations should be stored off-site. My computer isn't used for business, but my personal backup scheme uses two identical removable hard drives,I alternate between the two, and use Acronis True Image to make a complete copy of the primary drive. I also use a pair of 1GB thumb drives for making more frequent backups of my most critical data (like financial information). For that I just drag and drop. -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup
Guest Pegasus \(MVP\) Posted September 1, 2007 Posted September 1, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning "Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message news:OkuNJs96HHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > "davdun75" <davdun75@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:63DF2DFF-8A9A-4456-BBD9-298AB122AB1A@microsoft.com... > >>I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not >> sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot >> drive >> to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that >> second >> "backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal >> operation; >> in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system >> simply >> by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive? > > > What you are talking about is called "mirroring" and the normal way to > accomplish it is with RAID 1. Read about RAID here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID > > RAID 1 (mirroring) is *not* a backup solution. RAID 1 uses two or more > drives, each a duplicate of the others, to provide redundancy, not backup. > It's used in situations (almost always within corporations, not in homes) > where any downtown can't be tolerated, > because the way it works is that if one drive fails the other takes over > seamlessly. Although some people thing of RAID 1 as a backup technique, > that is *not* what it is, since it's subject to simultaneous loss of the > original and the mirror to many of the most common dangers threatening > your data--severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks, > theft of the computer, etc. Most companies that use RAID 1 also have a > strong external backup plan in place. > > Here's my standard advice on backing up: > > > First of all, almost everyone should be backing up regularly. It is always > possible that a hard drive crash, user error, nearby lightning strike, > virus attack, even theft of the computer, can cause the loss of everything > on your drive. As has often been said, it's not a matter > of whether you will have such a problem, but when. > > Essentially you should back up what you can't afford to lose--what you > can't readily recreate. What that is depends on how you use your computer > and what you use it for. > > > It takes time and effort to backup, but it also takes time and effort to > recreate lost data. If you back up daily, you should never have to > recreate more than one day's worth of last data. If weekly, there's > potentially a lot more to recreate. You should assess how much pain > and trouble you would have if you lost x days of data, and then choose a > backup frequency that doesn't involve more pain and trouble than that you > would have if you had to recreate what was lost. > > > Some things (photographs, for instance) can never be recreated, and more > frequent backup may be wanted for them. > > > At one extreme is the professional user who would likely go out of > business if his data was lost. He probably needs to back up at least > daily. At the other extreme is the kid who doesn't use his computer except > to play games. He probably needs no backup at all, since worst case he can > easily reinstall his games. > > > Most of us fall somewhere between those extremes, but nobody can tell you > where you fall; you need to determine that for yourself. > > Should you back up Windows? Should you back up your applications? Most > people will tell you no, since you can always reinstall these easily from > the original media. But I don't think the answer is so clear-cut. Many > people have substantial time and effort invested in customizing Windows > and configuring their apps to work the way they want to. > Putting all of that back the way it was can be a difficult, time-consuming > effort. Whether you should backup up Windows and apps depends, once again, > on you. > > > How to backup? What software to use? There are many choices, including the > Windows-supplied backup program. Which choice is best for you depends at > least in part on the answers to some of the questions above. > > > Finally what backup media should you choose, and how should it be stored? > There are many choices, including CDs, tape, zip drives, and second hard > drives. > > > I don't recommend backup to a second non-removable hard drive because it > leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original and backup to > many of the most common dangers: severe power glitches, nearby lightning > strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer. > > > In my view, secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in > the computer. For really secure backup (needed, for example, if the life > of your business depends on your data) you should have multiple > generations of backup, and at least one of those generations should be > stored off-site. > > > My computer isn't used for business, but my personal backup scheme uses > two identical removable hard drives,I alternate between the two, and use > Acronis True Image to make a complete copy of the primary drive. > > > I also use a pair of 1GB thumb drives for making more frequent backups of > my most critical data (like financial information). For that I just drag > and drop. > > > -- > Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User > Please reply to the newsgroup The answer depends on the OP's requirements. If he is concerned about a hard disk failure then mirroring is the answer, as you suggested at the beginning of your detailed response. IMHO, hard disk failures are quite rare. However, mirroring does NOT protect against malfunctions within Windows. If he is concerned about some corruption of Windows then imaging would be the answer, as you suggested towards the end of your reply. Going by the number of posts in this NG, this is a far more likely scenario. If the OP choses this method then he must maintain at least the two most recent images.
Guest Lil' Dave Posted September 2, 2007 Posted September 2, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning "davdun75" <davdun75@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:63DF2DFF-8A9A-4456-BBD9-298AB122AB1A@microsoft.com... >I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not > sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot > drive > to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second > "backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal > operation; > in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system > simply > by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive? As Ken indicated, writing to the second hard drive automatically is a function of RAID 1. This means you need the hardware to support that if you desire such. All my clone backups are manual. Clone to second hard drive every month, followed by hiding all the second hard drive partitions. All with 3rd party boot time software. I can cause the system to boot from the second hard drive by a simple bios setting alteration, if needed. The same 3rd party software is also on the second hard drive. Weekly, and before doing application removal or additions, I image the XP and other partitions to an external firewire hard drive. My XP partition data is small, so I also backup that partition to DVD on a monthly basis. For further safety, I also incorporate writing my Outlook data to 2 forms of removable media. Personal financial data, 3 forms of removable media. Intermittently, I also do similar with IE favorites as this changes for me. I learned the hard way not to rely entirely on one form of backup, and not to rely on hardware that may not work on another PC if I move my system. And, to remove the media entirely from the system when the backup is done, if removable. Image restoration should always be tested before continuing to use for backup purposes. Dave
Guest GMAN Posted September 3, 2007 Posted September 3, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning In article <46d7ba23$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>, "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote: > >"Andrew E." <eckrichco@msn.com> wrote in message >news:773B77A3-2F61-4136-AFFD-6E288883B217@microsoft.com... >> With an IDE hd,set as slave on the same IDE chain as C: Format the hd in >> xp,once thru,go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to all in >> the >> DOS window,once its thru,C: is now cloned to D: D: being the slave hd.If >> asigned diffrent letter,then use that letter.As for consistantly writing >> to >> the >> slave hd,one could schedule xp to consistantly backup to the slave hd,but >> then >> if xp is corrupted in any manner then so are the files its backing up >> with.I would >> clone as described and leave it as is.... >> >> "davdun75" wrote: >> > >Have you any idea the number of people/organisations that religiously backup >their system and then when disaster strikes discover that their backup is >totally useless because they overlooked something? > >Anyone you follows the above advice will join that unhappy group. A Windows >installation cannot be backed up by merely copying all the files while it is >running. Many important system files are protected from being opened by >other applications and you can't copy them either. > > RAID !!!!!
Guest davdun75 Posted September 4, 2007 Posted September 4, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning Wow... thanks to all for your responses and clarification. Have a good plan in mind now. Am somewhat familiar with softwares cited... now to choose. "Lil' Dave" wrote: > "davdun75" <davdun75@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:63DF2DFF-8A9A-4456-BBD9-298AB122AB1A@microsoft.com... > >I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not > > sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot > > drive > > to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second > > "backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal > > operation; > > in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system > > simply > > by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive? > > As Ken indicated, writing to the second hard drive automatically is a > function of RAID 1. This means you need the hardware to support that if you > desire such. > > All my clone backups are manual. Clone to second hard drive every month, > followed by hiding all the second hard drive partitions. All with 3rd party > boot time software. I can cause the system to boot from the second hard > drive by a simple bios setting alteration, if needed. The same 3rd party > software is also on the second hard drive. > > Weekly, and before doing application removal or additions, I image the XP > and other partitions to an external firewire hard drive. My XP partition > data is small, so I also backup that partition to DVD on a monthly basis. > > For further safety, I also incorporate writing my Outlook data to 2 forms of > removable media. Personal financial data, 3 forms of removable media. > Intermittently, I also do similar with IE favorites as this changes for me. > > I learned the hard way not to rely entirely on one form of backup, and not > to rely on hardware that may not work on another PC if I move my system. > And, to remove the media entirely from the system when the backup is done, > if removable. Image restoration should always be tested before continuing > to use for backup purposes. > Dave > > >
Guest M.I.5¾ Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 Re: Backup and HD cloning "GMAN" <glenzabr@xmission.nospam.com> wrote in message news:fbgahm$f6l$1@news.xmission.com... > In article <46d7ba23$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>, "M.I.5¾" > <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote: >> >>"Andrew E." <eckrichco@msn.com> wrote in message >>news:773B77A3-2F61-4136-AFFD-6E288883B217@microsoft.com... >>> With an IDE hd,set as slave on the same IDE chain as C: Format the hd >>> in >>> xp,once thru,go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to all in >>> the >>> DOS window,once its thru,C: is now cloned to D: D: being the slave >>> hd.If >>> asigned diffrent letter,then use that letter.As for consistantly writing >>> to >>> the >>> slave hd,one could schedule xp to consistantly backup to the slave >>> hd,but >>> then >>> if xp is corrupted in any manner then so are the files its backing up >>> with.I would >>> clone as described and leave it as is.... >>> >>> "davdun75" wrote: >>> >> >>Have you any idea the number of people/organisations that religiously >>backup >>their system and then when disaster strikes discover that their backup is >>totally useless because they overlooked something? >> >>Anyone you follows the above advice will join that unhappy group. A >>Windows >>installation cannot be backed up by merely copying all the files while it >>is >>running. Many important system files are protected from being opened by >>other applications and you can't copy them either. >> >> > > RAID !!!!! Where?????
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