Guest Lyle Giles Posted September 15, 2007 Posted September 15, 2007 Is the Windows Firewall now good enough to run alone without the need to have another more comprehensive one (eg Zone Alarm)? -- lgiles67@hotmail.com
Guest Ken Blake, MVP Posted September 15, 2007 Posted September 15, 2007 Re: Firewall On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:42:56 +0800, "Lyle Giles" <lgiles67@hotmail.com> wrote: > Is the Windows Firewall now good enough to run alone without the need to > have another more comprehensive one (eg Zone Alarm)? You'll get various opinions on the comparative merits of different firewalls. I won't comment on that question. However I do want to comment on your word "alone" is the above sentence. Whatever you do, don't run two firewalls. You achieve no extra protection, you incur the extra overhead of running two firewalls, and you run the risk (probably small, but not zero) of conflicts between them. See http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/firewall.mspx which includes the following: "Q. Should I use both the built-in firewall and a software firewall from a different company on my Windows XP computer? "A. No. Running multiple software firewalls is unnecessary for typical home computers, home networking, and small-business networking scenarios. Using two firewalls on the same connection could cause issues with connectivity to the Internet or other unexpected behavior. One firewall, whether it is the Windows XP Internet Connection Firewall or a different software firewall, can provide substantial protection for your computer." Also note that if you update your third-party firewall to a new version, the update routine will probably turn it off first. If the Windows firewall isn't running, you will temporarily be left with no running firewall, which is very dangerous. So turn on the Windows firewall temporarily before doing maintenance on your third-party firewall. -- Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Guest Ed Metcalfe Posted September 15, 2007 Posted September 15, 2007 Re: Firewall "Lyle Giles" <lgiles67@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:e8mg6j99HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Is the Windows Firewall now good enough to run alone without the need to > have another more comprehensive one (eg Zone Alarm)? > > -- > lgiles67@hotmail.com > Lyle, The XP firewall is plenty good enough for inbound protection, however it does lack outbound protection. If you're confident of the applications you have installed on your PC then the XP firewall is, in my opinion, fine. If you have any doubt about what is installed then I would use an alternative firewall application. I've been a ZA user for several years but uninstalled it recently after a lot of problems. I'd recommend Sunbelt Kerio. Ed Metcalfe.
Guest RalfG Posted September 16, 2007 Posted September 16, 2007 Re: Firewall Just to add to that, if you intend to use Internet Connection Sharing on that computer stay away from the free versions of 3rd party firewalls as most aren't compatible with ICS. It's been a while since I used ICS but IIRC Tiny PF and Kerio were the only free ones that worked with it, though that may have changed since then. "Ed Metcalfe" <edmetcalfe@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:eXh$PY%239HHA.4752@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > > "Lyle Giles" <lgiles67@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:e8mg6j99HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Is the Windows Firewall now good enough to run alone without the need to >> have another more comprehensive one (eg Zone Alarm)? >> >> -- >> lgiles67@hotmail.com >> > > Lyle, > > The XP firewall is plenty good enough for inbound protection, however it > does lack outbound protection. > > If you're confident of the applications you have installed on your PC then > the XP firewall is, in my opinion, fine. If you have any doubt about what > is installed then I would use an alternative firewall application. > > I've been a ZA user for several years but uninstalled it recently after a > lot of problems. I'd recommend Sunbelt Kerio. > > Ed Metcalfe. >
Guest Unknown Posted September 16, 2007 Posted September 16, 2007 Re: Firewall My two cents worth. I use the Windows firewall and only the Windows firewall and have no problems whatsoever. "Lyle Giles" <lgiles67@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:e8mg6j99HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Is the Windows Firewall now good enough to run alone without the need to > have another more comprehensive one (eg Zone Alarm)? > > -- > lgiles67@hotmail.com >
Guest Bruce Chambers Posted September 16, 2007 Posted September 16, 2007 Re: Firewall Lyle Giles wrote: > Is the Windows Firewall now good enough to run alone without the need to > have another more comprehensive one (eg Zone Alarm)? > I don't think so, no. WinXP's built-in firewall is usually adequate at stopping incoming attacks, and hiding your ports from probes. What WinXP SP2's firewall does not do, is protect you from any Trojans or spyware that you (or someone else using your computer) might download and install inadvertently. It doesn't monitor out-going traffic at all, other than to check for IP-spoofing, much less block (or at even ask you about) the bad or the questionable out-going signals. It assumes that any application you have on your hard drive is there because you want it there, and therefore has your "permission" to access the Internet. Further, because the Windows Firewall is a "stateful" firewall, it will also assume that any incoming traffic that's a direct response to a Trojan's or spyware's out-going signal is also authorized. ZoneAlarm, Kerio, or Sygate are all much better than WinXP's built-in firewall, and are much more easily configured, and there are free versions of each readily available. Even the commercially available Symantec's Norton Personal Firewall is superior by far, although it does take a heavier toll of system performance then do ZoneAlarm or Sygate. Having said that, it's important to remember that firewalls and anti-virus applications, which should always be used and should always be running, while important components of "safe hex," cannot, and should not be expected to, protect the computer user from him/herself. Ultimately, it is incumbent upon each and every computer user to learn how to secure his/her own computer. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
Guest smlunatick Posted September 16, 2007 Posted September 16, 2007 Re: Firewall On Sep 15, 4:48 pm, "Ken Blake, MVP" <kbl...@this.is.am.invalid.domain> wrote: > On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:42:56 +0800, "Lyle Giles" > > <lgile...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Is the Windows Firewall now good enough to run alone without the need to > > have another more comprehensive one (eg Zone Alarm)? > > You'll get various opinions on the comparative merits of different > firewalls. I won't comment on that question. > > However I do want to comment on your word "alone" is the above > sentence. Whatever you do, don't run two firewalls. You achieve no > extra protection, you incur the extra overhead of running two > firewalls, and you run the risk (probably small, but not zero) of > conflicts between them. > > Seehttp://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/firewall.mspx > which includes the following: > > "Q. Should I use both the built-in firewall and a software firewall > from a different company on my Windows XP computer? > > "A. No. Running multiple software firewalls is unnecessary for typical > home computers, home networking, and small-business networking > scenarios. Using two firewalls on the same connection could cause > issues with connectivity to the Internet or other unexpected behavior. > One firewall, whether it is the Windows XP Internet Connection > Firewall or a different software firewall, can provide substantial > protection for your computer." > > Also note that if you update your third-party firewall to a new > version, the update routine will probably turn it off first. If the > Windows firewall isn't running, you will temporarily be left with no > running firewall, which is very dangerous. So turn on the Windows > firewall temporarily before doing maintenance on your third-party > firewall. > > -- > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User > Please Reply to the Newsgroup I would like to clarify your responce. You can not run "two" software firewalls at the same time. However, you can run one "hardware" firewall, usually one some type of router device / PC, and one software firewall. With this type of set up, you can also protect yourself from any other PCs on tou local network also. It is also to be noted that several anti-virus systems also include a "hidden" firewall, which is known under a different name/label. Norton Antivirus, since 2005, has an 'Internet WOrm" feature. In looking at the "advanced" setting of this module, I was able to see that this "behaves" like most software firewall. It is also "posted" widely on the web.
Guest Ken Blake, MVP Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 Re: Firewall On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:31:03 -0700, smlunatick <yveslec@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sep 15, 4:48 pm, "Ken Blake, MVP" > <kbl...@this.is.am.invalid.domain> wrote: > > However I do want to comment on your word "alone" is the above > > sentence. Whatever you do, don't run two firewalls. You achieve no > > extra protection, you incur the extra overhead of running two > > firewalls, and you run the risk (probably small, but not zero) of > > conflicts between them. > I would like to clarify your responce. You can not run "two" software > firewalls at the same time. A further clarification: You *can* run two software firewalls at the same time, but you *should* not. That was the point of my response. > However, you can run one "hardware" > firewall, usually one some type of router device / PC, and one > software firewall. With this type of set up, you can also protect > yourself from any other PCs on tou local network also. Yes, I agree with that. Thanks for the clarification. -- Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Guest Kayman Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 Re: Firewall On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:42:56 +0800, Lyle Giles wrote: > Is the Windows Firewall now good enough to run alone without the need to have > another more comprehensive one... The Windows Firewall was always an adequate protection for the average homeuser (stand-alone machine). MS never subscribed to the advertising hype as created by the makers of PFW's. Is the XP SP2 firewall getting a raw deal? http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=81 How to Configure Windows Firewall on a Single Computer. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/smallbusiness/prodtech/windowsxp/cfgfwall.mspx Exploring the Windows Firewall. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/06/VistaFirewall/default.aspx "Outbound protection is security theater¡Xit¡¦s a gimmick that only gives the impression of improving your security without doing anything that actually does improve your security." But even the WinXP Firewall is not really needed when appropriate services are disabled (I know this will raise some eyebrows and wish I hadn't mentioned it); You can leave it enabled if it makes you 'feel' better :) Don't expose services to public networks!!!!). http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm# http://www.ss64.com/ntsyntax/services.html http://www.beemerworld.com/tips/servicesxp.htm This can be a trying exercise; You've got to patient :) Add this most useful application: Seconfig XP is able configure Windows not to use TCP/IP as transport protocol for NetBIOS, SMB and RPC, thus leaving TCP/UDP ports 135, 137-139 and 445 (the most exploited Windows networking weak point) closed. http://seconfig.sytes.net/ http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/Seconfig-XP-Download-39707.html) > ...(eg Zone Alarm)? PFW (ZA) is Phoney-Baloney Ware; A One-Click BS solution! Personal Firewalls are mostly snake-oil. http://www.samspade.org/d/firewalls.html Why your firewall sucks. http://tooleaky.zensoft.com/ "But I quickly realized the truth: The added protection provided by outbound filtering is entirely illusory." Constructive Criticisms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_firewall#Criticisms At Least This Snake Oil Is Free. http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx De-constructing Common Security Myths. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2006/05/SecurityMyths/default.aspx Scroll down to: Myth: 'Host-Based Firewalls Must Filter Outbound Traffic to be Safe.' If you are a homeuser, operating from a stand-alone machine and serious about computer security, Hardening OS and LUA are superior alternatives to any PFW Phoney-Baloney Ware! http://www.5starsupport.com/tutorial/hardening-windows.htm Additional assistance concerning hardening of OS be obtained in newsgroups such as comp.security.firewalls; Inspirational reading can be found here: http://home20.inet.tele.dk/b_nice/index.htm Valuable tips/info in relation to LUA: http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis/archive/2005/04/18/TableOfContents.aspx http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2006/03/02/running-as-limited-user-the-easy-way.aspx http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1848 Ensure that you OS is current/updated/patched. http://www.update.microsoft.com/windowsupdate/v6/default.aspx?ln=en-us Ensure that all software on your pc is current/updated. Practice Safe-Hex http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html Good luck :)
Guest Leythos Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 Re: Firewall In article <1kevkyrbqulno.1rv5wm02i368d.dlg@40tude.net>, enjoylife@cocosisl.oz says... > The Windows Firewall was always an adequate protection for the average > homeuser (stand-alone machine). MS never subscribed to the advertising hype > as created by the makers of PFW's. No, it wasn't a good deal. If you have a NAT Router then it's enough for most home users, but if you don't have a NAT router then it's filled with to many holes, put there by vendors, users, applications, that it's almost useless. Many vendors ship machines configured with holes (exceptions), not to mention the apps that put holes (exceptions) in the windows firewall without the user knowing about them.... If you've got a PC connected to the internet and you're using the Windows firewall without any hardware appliance, well, you had better be checking the firewall exceptions and also make sure that you remove File/Printer sharing from network settings. -- Leythos - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist" spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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