Browser Wars

October 3, 2007

As Microsoft continues to lose market share to Mozilla Firefox many must be

wondering how come Microsoft tries to integrate I.E. and Windows Media Player

into their operating system. I would like a bare bones XP and Vista that

came without these extras. Mozilla Firefox supports 256 bit cipher strength

all the way back to Windows 98/98SE. Mozilla Firefox does not have Active X

to be compromised. According to secunia.com --- Internet Explorer still has

many issues.

http://secunia.com/product/14068/?task=advisories

http://secunia.com/product/13/?task=advisories

http://secunia.com/product/22/?task=advisories

http://secunia.com/product/11/?task=advisories

feel free to check out vulnerabilites are greater in XP Professional than in

98 Second Edition and the same is true of Vista still needs a lot of work.

October 3, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

Well turn them off and don't use them.

Go into add/remove and Set program Access to "non microsoft".

Regards

Mark Dormer

"Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:76A467EA-E778-4472-8893-5E44C5522468@microsoft.com...

> As Microsoft continues to lose market share to Mozilla Firefox many must

> be

> wondering how come Microsoft tries to integrate I.E. and Windows Media

> Player

> into their operating system. I would like a bare bones XP and Vista that

> came without these extras. Mozilla Firefox supports 256 bit cipher

> strength

> all the way back to Windows 98/98SE. Mozilla Firefox does not have Active

> X

> to be compromised. According to secunia.com --- Internet Explorer still

> has

> many issues.

>

> http://secunia.com/product/14068/?task=advisories

>

> http://secunia.com/product/13/?task=advisories

>

> http://secunia.com/product/22/?task=advisories

>

> http://secunia.com/product/11/?task=advisories

>

> feel free to check out vulnerabilites are greater in XP Professional than

> in

> 98 Second Edition and the same is true of Vista still needs a lot of work.

October 3, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

I will just enjoy using my programs and not connect to the internet. I was

just making a point that Microsoft was wrong about Microsoft Windows 98

Second Edition and it is safe. Chris Quirke, MVP (Most Valuable

Professional) goes into this debate well. I just remember the whole debates

and lies about the NT (New Technology) source code being so secure and it is

not.

http://cquirke.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/hello-world/#comments

http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/securing_browser/

http://www.cert.org/work/secure_systems.html

https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/profile=8ee44ddb-6550-4400-966d-9827b1a109b8

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11573761&postID=3065010928190918746

http://cquirke.spaces.live.com/

http://cquirke.wordpress.com/

http://cquirke.wordpress.com/2007/09/22/my-10-first-linux-toe-stubbers/#comments

or how about the long discussion I had here:

http://www.spywarepoint.com/forums/t26963-p7-microsoft-zero-day-security-holes-being-exploited.html

http://cquirke.blogspot.com/

Do we have more smart alecks with silly comments or are more of you going to

help me in my quest to force Microsoft to do something with the 9x consumer

source code that will benefit all of mankind or are we just going to let

Microsoft sit on this and let their IP (Intellectual Property) rot until it

is worthless and that would let me down and be a great shame for everyone.

On a positive note, I feel very passionate about this issue because the 9x

consumer source code was built very well, has not been leaked out over the

internet like parts of the NT (New Technology) business source code. I have

contacts already that would be willing to pay Microsoft big bucks and I do

mean big bucks and no lying anymore of course to acquire the right to all the

9x source code and we are not just talking about rival businesses but about

DOD and NSA itself. Anyway, I am sure you all do not believe me and that is

fine but I will say whatever and leave it at that. Thank you and have a nice

day.

"Mark Dormer" wrote:

> Well turn them off and don't use them.

>

> Go into add/remove and Set program Access to "non microsoft".

>

> Regards

> Mark Dormer

>

> "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:76A467EA-E778-4472-8893-5E44C5522468@microsoft.com...

> > As Microsoft continues to lose market share to Mozilla Firefox many must

> > be

> > wondering how come Microsoft tries to integrate I.E. and Windows Media

> > Player

> > into their operating system. I would like a bare bones XP and Vista that

> > came without these extras. Mozilla Firefox supports 256 bit cipher

> > strength

> > all the way back to Windows 98/98SE. Mozilla Firefox does not have Active

> > X

> > to be compromised. According to secunia.com --- Internet Explorer still

> > has

> > many issues.

> >

> > http://secunia.com/product/14068/?task=advisories

> >

> > http://secunia.com/product/13/?task=advisories

> >

> > http://secunia.com/product/22/?task=advisories

> >

> > http://secunia.com/product/11/?task=advisories

> >

> > feel free to check out vulnerabilites are greater in XP Professional than

> > in

> > 98 Second Edition and the same is true of Vista still needs a lot of work.

>

October 3, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

Yeah we all know that MS doesn't write secure code.

As an MVP for 8 years myself, I know all to well the holes in IE.

9X is inherently unsafe, it may not have certain vulnerabilites due to lack

of features but I would never use it if security was a concern. you can't

even stop people accessing a file

As for NT, well that security was not internet security. It was written to

comply with DOD specifications so they could sell it to the government. They

weren't even considering the internet at the time.

Most DOD computers don't ever have internet access except the insecure ones.

Anything connected to a secret or higher network never connects to external

networks.

As the 9x codebase is deprecated I would not expect MS to do anything with

it at all.

If you or your friend can buy it and do something then good luck to you.

Regards

Mark Dormer

"Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:FB23FF61-B18B-47F6-B342-9C8B5079D690@microsoft.com...

>I will just enjoy using my programs and not connect to the internet. I was

> just making a point that Microsoft was wrong about Microsoft Windows 98

> Second Edition and it is safe. Chris Quirke, MVP (Most Valuable

> Professional) goes into this debate well. I just remember the whole

> debates

> and lies about the NT (New Technology) source code being so secure and it

> is

> not.

>

> http://cquirke.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/hello-world/#comments

>

> http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/securing_browser/

>

> http://www.cert.org/work/secure_systems.html

>

> https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/profile=8ee44ddb-6550-4400-966d-9827b1a109b8

>

> https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11573761&postID=3065010928190918746

>

> http://cquirke.spaces.live.com/

>

> http://cquirke.wordpress.com/

>

> http://cquirke.wordpress.com/2007/09/22/my-10-first-linux-toe-stubbers/#comments

>

> or how about the long discussion I had here:

>

> http://www.spywarepoint.com/forums/t26963-p7-microsoft-zero-day-security-holes-being-exploited.html

>

> http://cquirke.blogspot.com/

>

> Do we have more smart alecks with silly comments or are more of you going

> to

> help me in my quest to force Microsoft to do something with the 9x

> consumer

> source code that will benefit all of mankind or are we just going to let

> Microsoft sit on this and let their IP (Intellectual Property) rot until

> it

> is worthless and that would let me down and be a great shame for everyone.

>

> On a positive note, I feel very passionate about this issue because the 9x

> consumer source code was built very well, has not been leaked out over the

> internet like parts of the NT (New Technology) business source code. I

> have

> contacts already that would be willing to pay Microsoft big bucks and I do

> mean big bucks and no lying anymore of course to acquire the right to all

> the

> 9x source code and we are not just talking about rival businesses but

> about

> DOD and NSA itself. Anyway, I am sure you all do not believe me and that

> is

> fine but I will say whatever and leave it at that. Thank you and have a

> nice

> day.

>

> "Mark Dormer" wrote:

>

>> Well turn them off and don't use them.

>>

>> Go into add/remove and Set program Access to "non microsoft".

>>

>> Regards

>> Mark Dormer

>>

>> "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:76A467EA-E778-4472-8893-5E44C5522468@microsoft.com...

>> > As Microsoft continues to lose market share to Mozilla Firefox many

>> > must

>> > be

>> > wondering how come Microsoft tries to integrate I.E. and Windows Media

>> > Player

>> > into their operating system. I would like a bare bones XP and Vista

>> > that

>> > came without these extras. Mozilla Firefox supports 256 bit cipher

>> > strength

>> > all the way back to Windows 98/98SE. Mozilla Firefox does not have

>> > Active

>> > X

>> > to be compromised. According to secunia.com --- Internet Explorer

>> > still

>> > has

>> > many issues.

>> >

>> > http://secunia.com/product/14068/?task=advisories

>> >

>> > http://secunia.com/product/13/?task=advisories

>> >

>> > http://secunia.com/product/22/?task=advisories

>> >

>> > http://secunia.com/product/11/?task=advisories

>> >

>> > feel free to check out vulnerabilites are greater in XP Professional

>> > than

>> > in

>> > 98 Second Edition and the same is true of Vista still needs a lot of

>> > work.

>>

October 3, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

"Mark Dormer" <markd@mvpsx.org> wrote in message

news:OisR$gaBIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

| Yeah we all know that MS doesn't write secure code.

| As an MVP for 8 years myself, I know all to well the holes in IE.

|

| 9X is inherently unsafe, it may not have certain vulnerabilites due to

lack

| of features but I would never use it if security was a concern. you can't

| even stop people accessing a file

Um, actually you can with third party programs using techniques like

encrypting, to a certain extent with Microsoft tools like policy editor, or

other means.

Perhaps you're referring more to the in-built aspects of NT based systems.

The methods used therein, also rely upon the *trust based* method and

therefore also provide the inherent ability to be hacked.

|

| As for NT, well that security was not internet security. It was written to

| comply with DOD specifications so they could sell it to the government.

They

| weren't even considering the internet at the time.

The military has its own *grade* of NT. Commercial available NT was

designed more for the business world [non-critical], and early versions were

not very secure, contrary to certain claims. Personally I question whether

even VISTA is actually very secure.

|

| Most DOD computers don't ever have internet access except the insecure

ones.

| Anything connected to a secret or higher network never connects to

external

| networks.

That is true, at least in theory, though if you've paid attention to the

news, in practice there have been times when that security has been

breached, though generally by some party using a laptop outside the

secured/disconnected network. Of course that means [or supposed to mean]

immediate removal of that party's security clearance and other aspects.

|

| As the 9x codebase is deprecated I would not expect MS to do anything with

| it at all.

| If you or your friend can buy it and do something then good luck to you.

|

| Regards

| Mark Dormer

|

Many are still working within the 9X environment. Improvements will

continue, though likely not by many of the supposed *leaders* of the

software world, and certainly not with the massive availability of a

supported OS. Uniquely, 9X is now a *stable OS* meaning no longer being

changed by Microsoft, therefore the potential could be a quite secure OS

using third party progs/enhancements.

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

October 3, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

<yawn>

October 3, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

As an informed user of Win98>SE and IE/OE for some 9 years, I am always

amused by those who continually trash MS products as "unsafe, poorly

written, bloatware, etc, etc," especially when it comes from an MS- MVP.

While I am certainly not of the technical caliber of an MVP, I am a retired

engineer who has a reasonable working knowledge of computer technology. I

am not afraid to muck around in the registry when appropriate and have been

able to trouble shoot most of the few problems I have encountered over this

period. I use Comcast cable and leave it on continuously. I am an

inveterate web surfer so my exposure to "baddies" is significant. I can

count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have gotten a

virus -- always identified and eliminated immediately. I have used 2 AVs

over this period, CA my e-Trust, and more recently, Avast!. Per advice from

many knowledgeable people, I avoid Norton or McAfee products. I have always

kept Windows and IE/OE updated with the latest MS patches. Here in summary

is my experience:

Windows 98FE/SE and MSIE/OE can be safe and highly stable under the

following conditions:

Keep them updated! It's recognized that support for 98 has ended but some

IE6 updates are still coming.

ALWAYS have a good, updated AV active

Use a good two-way firewall, active at all times

Take advantage of the many free spyware apps out there, Ad-Aware,

SpywareBlaster, Host files, CW Shredder are a few that come to mind

DON'T surf in polluted waters! While it is true that there are many sites

that appear to be legit but aren't, most really bad sites are usually

identifiable if one just uses common sense.

I believe there are millions of us W98SE users out here who can safely use

our systems for the foreseeable future by following the above path, if we

don't need all the bells and whistles that come with newer OSs.

Now, there is another side to the problem of computer safety and it is not

limited to which OS one uses. There are a lot of uncle Hermans and aunt Mau

des out there who are computer users but are computer challenged. They buy

a computer at Wal-Mart e.g., bring it home, have the neighbor kid hook it

up and get it on line, then use it for a year or so with little protection

other than the intrinsic safety of the OS. People like them are at great

risk if the OS has massive security holes like unprotected, un-updated MS

operating systems. Such systems/people like that are red meat for the

hacker/crackers and a natively safe OS would be a great boon to them. So

when will we see a user-friendly, intrinsically safe operating system? And

no, it's not Linux (so far, pretty user nasty for the Hermans/Maudes) or Mac

OSs. We're all waiting!

"Mark Dormer" <markd@mvpsx.org> wrote in message

news:OisR$gaBIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

Yeah we all know that MS doesn't write secure code.

As an MVP for 8 years myself, I know all to well the holes in IE.

9X is inherently unsafe, it may not have certain vulnerabilites due to lack

of features but I would never use it if security was a concern. you can't

even stop people accessing a file

As for NT, well that security was not internet security. It was written to

comply with DOD specifications so they could sell it to the government. They

weren't even considering the internet at the time.

Most DOD computers don't ever have internet access except the insecure ones.

Anything connected to a secret or higher network never connects to external

networks.

As the 9x codebase is deprecated I would not expect MS to do anything with

it at all.

If you or your friend can buy it and do something then good luck to you.

Regards

Mark Dormer

"Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:FB23FF61-B18B-47F6-B342-9C8B5079D690@microsoft.com...

>I will just enjoy using my programs and not connect to the internet. I was

> just making a point that Microsoft was wrong about Microsoft Windows 98

> Second Edition and it is safe. Chris Quirke, MVP (Most Valuable

> Professional) goes into this debate well. I just remember the whole

> debates

> and lies about the NT (New Technology) source code being so secure and it

> is

> not.

>

> http://cquirke.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/hello-world/#comments

>

> http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/securing_browser/

>

> http://www.cert.org/work/secure_systems.html

>

https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/profile=8ee44ddb-6550-4400-966d-9827b1a109b8

>

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11573761&postID=3065010928190918746

>

> http://cquirke.spaces.live.com/

>

> http://cquirke.wordpress.com/

>

http://cquirke.wordpress.com/2007/09/22/my-10-first-linux-toe-stubbers/#comments

>

> or how about the long discussion I had here:

>

http://www.spywarepoint.com/forums/t26963-p7-microsoft-zero-day-security-holes-being-exploited.html

>

> http://cquirke.blogspot.com/

>

> Do we have more smart alecks with silly comments or are more of you going

> to

> help me in my quest to force Microsoft to do something with the 9x

> consumer

> source code that will benefit all of mankind or are we just going to let

> Microsoft sit on this and let their IP (Intellectual Property) rot until

> it

> is worthless and that would let me down and be a great shame for everyone.

>

> On a positive note, I feel very passionate about this issue because the 9x

> consumer source code was built very well, has not been leaked out over the

> internet like parts of the NT (New Technology) business source code. I

> have

> contacts already that would be willing to pay Microsoft big bucks and I do

> mean big bucks and no lying anymore of course to acquire the right to all

> the

> 9x source code and we are not just talking about rival businesses but

> about

> DOD and NSA itself. Anyway, I am sure you all do not believe me and that

> is

> fine but I will say whatever and leave it at that. Thank you and have a

> nice

> day.

>

> "Mark Dormer" wrote:

>

>> Well turn them off and don't use them.

>>

>> Go into add/remove and Set program Access to "non microsoft".

>>

>> Regards

>> Mark Dormer

>>

>> "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:76A467EA-E778-4472-8893-5E44C5522468@microsoft.com...

>> > As Microsoft continues to lose market share to Mozilla Firefox many

>> > must

>> > be

>> > wondering how come Microsoft tries to integrate I.E. and Windows Media

>> > Player

>> > into their operating system. I would like a bare bones XP and Vista

>> > that

>> > came without these extras. Mozilla Firefox supports 256 bit cipher

>> > strength

>> > all the way back to Windows 98/98SE. Mozilla Firefox does not have

>> > Active

>> > X

>> > to be compromised. According to secunia.com --- Internet Explorer

>> > still

>> > has

>> > many issues.

>> >

>> > http://secunia.com/product/14068/?task=advisories

>> >

>> > http://secunia.com/product/13/?task=advisories

>> >

>> > http://secunia.com/product/22/?task=advisories

>> >

>> > http://secunia.com/product/11/?task=advisories

>> >

>> > feel free to check out vulnerabilites are greater in XP Professional

>> > than

>> > in

>> > 98 Second Edition and the same is true of Vista still needs a lot of

>> > work.

>>

October 4, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

Is it time for winter hibernation already? <grin>

"PA Bear" wrote:

> <yawn>

>

October 5, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

Dan wrote:

| Is it time for winter hibernation already? <grin>

Ah, ha, ha! Ha, ha-- ah, ha, ha!

| "PA Bear" wrote:

|

|> <yawn>

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

October 6, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

In Northern New Mexico, we still are getting warm weather mixed with cold

weather. What about your neck of the woods, PCR.

October 6, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

2nd attempt --- server error. Is it cold already in your neck of the woods,

PCR and what about Robear and how is his weather in his neck of the woods?

It is warm and cold here and cannot yet make up its mind.

"PCR" wrote:

> Dan wrote:

> | Is it time for winter hibernation already? <grin>

>

> Ah, ha, ha! Ha, ha-- ah, ha, ha!

>

> | "PA Bear" wrote:

> |

> |> <yawn>

>

> --

> Thanks or Good Luck,

> There may be humor in this post, and,

> Naturally, you will not sue,

> Should things get worse after this,

> PCR

> pcrrcp@netzero.net

>

October 6, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

Dan wrote:

| 2nd attempt --- server error. Is it cold already in your neck of the

| woods, PCR and what about Robear and how is his weather in his neck

| of the woods? It is warm and cold here and cannot yet make up its

| mind.

The first one came through. I have no comment on Bear's weather or mine!

But Bear rarely will go into an Afghanistan cave these days-- & his

tracks last were spotted in Antarctica!

| "PCR" wrote:

|

|> Dan wrote:

|> | Is it time for winter hibernation already? <grin>

|>

|> Ah, ha, ha! Ha, ha-- ah, ha, ha!

|>

|> | "PA Bear" wrote:

|> |

|> |> <yawn>

|>

|> --

|> Thanks or Good Luck,

|> There may be humor in this post, and,

|> Naturally, you will not sue,

|> Should things get worse after this,

|> PCR

|> pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

October 7, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

> The first one came through. I have no comment on Bear's weather or mine!

> But Bear rarely will go into an Afghanistan cave these days-- & his

> tracks last were spotted in Antarctica!

>

Antartctica,WoW, what Robear must really like the cold weather!

October 7, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

Dan wrote:

|> The first one came through. I have no comment on Bear's weather or

|> mine! But Bear rarely will go into an Afghanistan cave these days--

|> & his tracks last were spotted in Antarctica!

|>

| Antartctica,WoW, what Robear must really like the cold weather!

Bin Laden stunk him out of his first cave!

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

October 8, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

Peace, PCR. I do not want to upset Robear. He has lots of good and useful

advice and I am pleased he still visits this newsgroup.

"PCR" wrote:

> Dan wrote:

> |> The first one came through. I have no comment on Bear's weather or

> |> mine! But Bear rarely will go into an Afghanistan cave these days--

> |> & his tracks last were spotted in Antarctica!

> |>

> | Antartctica,WoW, what Robear must really like the cold weather!

>

> Bin Laden stunk him out of his first cave!

>

> --

> Thanks or Good Luck,

> There may be humor in this post, and,

> Naturally, you will not sue,

> Should things get worse after this,

> PCR

> pcrrcp@netzero.net

>

October 8, 2007

Re: Browser Wars

Dan wrote:

| Peace, PCR. I do not want to upset Robear. He has lots of good and

| useful advice and I am pleased he still visits this newsgroup.

OK, then. OK, bye. But it had nothing to do with the weather!

| "PCR" wrote:

|

|> Dan wrote:

|> |> The first one came through. I have no comment on Bear's weather or

|> |> mine! But Bear rarely will go into an Afghanistan cave these

|> |> days-- & his tracks last were spotted in Antarctica!

|> |>

|> | Antartctica,WoW, what Robear must really like the cold weather!

|>

|> Bin Laden stunk him out of his first cave!

|>

|> --

|> Thanks or Good Luck,

|> There may be humor in this post, and,

|> Naturally, you will not sue,

|> Should things get worse after this,

|> PCR

|> pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

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