Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

October 17, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:26:53 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> "Stephan Rose" <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> wrote in message

> news:Z6WdnZP9nbXIjovanZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com...

>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:27:23 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>

>>> <spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

>>> news:aeqfu4-0re.ln1@ridcully.ntlworld.com...

>>>> In the sacred domain of comp.os.linux.advocacy, dennis@home

>>>> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:

>>>>>

>>

3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>>>>> and a few I have forgotten.

>>>>> Which have you installed?

>>>>

>>>> Too many.

>>>>

>>>>> Do you doubt it?

>>>>> Have you never installed windows?

>>>>

>>>> As I said, Too many times.

>>>>

>>>>>> Let's see some proof that linux didn't warn him then, shall we?

>>>>

>>>> Didn't think so.

>>>

>>> If you are so sure it does you could show the warning. The fact that I

>>> can't show the warning is just evidence that it doesn't exist. You

>>> really should try and get the logic correct before demanding evidence.

>>

>> http://fosswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/

>> ubuntufeistyinstallpicture-8.png

>>

>> Same URL tiny:

>> http://tinyurl.com/2qc234

>

> Thanks for that.. I downloaded 7.04 to see what it did but it wouldn't

> run under VPC so I still haven't seen the install screens myself.

>

> I think that anyone familiar with computers would understand those

> warnings. but then they wouldn't need them anyway. Its still not

> particularly clear to a computer illiterate.

>

> Maybe something along the lines of "If you continue you will erase all

> your documents and pictures and any games and programs you have on this

> machine. This is not recoverable unless you have made copies of all you

> stuff on separate media e.g. DVD. If you are unsure please read the

> documentation or ask questions at http://.."

Dennis, it does not matter. Seriously, it does not matter. No matter how

much you spell it out, no matter how detailed one explains...some user in

this world simply will NOT get it.

It's one of the neverending problems I face writing software. No matter

how idiot proof I try to make the user interface, the world always

manages to invent a better idiot.

And honestly, I find "...this will destroy all data..." to be more than

clear enough. If someone can't understand the meaning of that I wonder if

they should be allowed to operate a toaster...nevermind actually

installing an operating system.

--

Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

君のこと思い出す日なんてないのは

君のこと忘れたときがないから

October 17, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

> news:OxbTJ1NEIHA.4956@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> dennis@home wrote:

>>>

>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>> news:uYEggtLEIHA.2004@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>>

>>>> If a a person has no idea what a disc is, let alone a partition,

>>>> then that person

>>>> has no business installing an OS. And if they do try without the

>>>> proper backups

>>>> and research, then they can't blame the OS no matter if it is

>>>> Linux,Windows or whatever.

>>>

>>> You can say that if you like but maybe you should try the real world

>>> and see who does get blamed for things like that.

>>>

>>> Note that I did not say the blame was entirely warranted but that

>>> makes no difference to the user.

>>> BTW calling them stupid and thick isn't going to help them think

>>> Linux is OK.. its just going to make them think all Linux users are

>>> like Peter and that will be more black marks.

>>>

>>> Lets face facts.. if you want Linux to be as successful as windows on

>>> the desktop you are going to have to deal with thick users. You can't

>>> get far unless you do.

>>

>> I guess I do live in a fantasy world. Never have even thought about

>> the real world.

>

> Well if you think the user isn't going to blame the OS then you may? ;-)

I agree. Most people in this world always blame someone else.

But I have taught my kids to take your own bumps.

Just because most do doesn't make it right.

caver1

October 17, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

> news:13hctdt2i2nmaa5@news.supernews.com...

>

> 8<

>

>> Linux does not tend to delete users data.

>

> This thread is about Linux deleting a users data.

>

> 8<

>

>>> I am of the opinion that software should not be able to do harm even if

>>> the user hasn't read the manuals without warning them in language they

>>> should understand i.e. not computer speak as most people don't

>>> understand it. If a user needs to read the manuals its pretty poor

>>> software and limits its potential users to a minority.

>>

Thats like buying a gun. Lets play Russian roulette. The gun can't wipe

my brain because.......

caver1

October 17, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Stephan Rose wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:26:53 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>

>> "Stephan Rose" <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> wrote in message

>> news:Z6WdnZP9nbXIjovanZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com...

>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:27:23 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>

>>>> <spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

>>>> news:aeqfu4-0re.ln1@ridcully.ntlworld.com...

>>>>> In the sacred domain of comp.os.linux.advocacy, dennis@home

>>>>> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:

> 3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>>>>>> and a few I have forgotten.

>>>>>> Which have you installed?

>>>>> Too many.

>>>>>

>>>>>> Do you doubt it?

>>>>>> Have you never installed windows?

>>>>> As I said, Too many times.

>>>>>

>>>>>>> Let's see some proof that linux didn't warn him then, shall we?

>>>>>

>>>>> Didn't think so.

>>>> If you are so sure it does you could show the warning. The fact that I

>>>> can't show the warning is just evidence that it doesn't exist. You

>>>> really should try and get the logic correct before demanding evidence.

>>> http://fosswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/

>>> ubuntufeistyinstallpicture-8.png

>>>

>>> Same URL tiny:

>>> http://tinyurl.com/2qc234

>> Thanks for that.. I downloaded 7.04 to see what it did but it wouldn't

>> run under VPC so I still haven't seen the install screens myself.

>>

>> I think that anyone familiar with computers would understand those

>> warnings. but then they wouldn't need them anyway. Its still not

>> particularly clear to a computer illiterate.

>>

>> Maybe something along the lines of "If you continue you will erase all

>> your documents and pictures and any games and programs you have on this

>> machine. This is not recoverable unless you have made copies of all you

>> stuff on separate media e.g. DVD. If you are unsure please read the

>> documentation or ask questions at http://.."

>

> Dennis, it does not matter. Seriously, it does not matter. No matter how

> much you spell it out, no matter how detailed one explains...some user in

> this world simply will NOT get it.

>

> It's one of the neverending problems I face writing software. No matter

> how idiot proof I try to make the user interface, the world always

> manages to invent a better idiot.

>

> And honestly, I find "...this will destroy all data..." to be more than

> clear enough. If someone can't understand the meaning of that I wonder if

> they should be allowed to operate a toaster...nevermind actually

> installing an operating system.

>

Any recommendations re toasters? I am getting one for my birthday to

burn CDs..

(Someone had to say it)

October 17, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:03:48 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:

> Stephan Rose wrote:

>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:26:53 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>

>>> "Stephan Rose" <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> wrote in message

>>> news:Z6WdnZP9nbXIjovanZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com...

>>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:27:23 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> <spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

>>>>> news:aeqfu4-0re.ln1@ridcully.ntlworld.com...

>>>>>> In the sacred domain of comp.os.linux.advocacy, dennis@home

>>>>>> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:

>>

3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>>>>>>> and a few I have forgotten.

>>>>>>> Which have you installed?

>>>>>> Too many.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Do you doubt it?

>>>>>>> Have you never installed windows?

>>>>>> As I said, Too many times.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Let's see some proof that linux didn't warn him then, shall we?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Didn't think so.

>>>>> If you are so sure it does you could show the warning. The fact that

>>>>> I can't show the warning is just evidence that it doesn't exist. You

>>>>> really should try and get the logic correct before demanding

>>>>> evidence.

>>>> http://fosswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/

>>>> ubuntufeistyinstallpicture-8.png

>>>>

>>>> Same URL tiny:

>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2qc234

>>> Thanks for that.. I downloaded 7.04 to see what it did but it wouldn't

>>> run under VPC so I still haven't seen the install screens myself.

>>>

>>> I think that anyone familiar with computers would understand those

>>> warnings. but then they wouldn't need them anyway. Its still not

>>> particularly clear to a computer illiterate.

>>>

>>> Maybe something along the lines of "If you continue you will erase

>>> all your documents and pictures and any games and programs you have on

>>> this machine. This is not recoverable unless you have made copies of

>>> all you stuff on separate media e.g. DVD. If you are unsure please

>>> read the documentation or ask questions at http://.."

>>

>> Dennis, it does not matter. Seriously, it does not matter. No matter

>> how much you spell it out, no matter how detailed one explains...some

>> user in this world simply will NOT get it.

>>

>> It's one of the neverending problems I face writing software. No matter

>> how idiot proof I try to make the user interface, the world always

>> manages to invent a better idiot.

>>

>> And honestly, I find "...this will destroy all data..." to be more than

>> clear enough. If someone can't understand the meaning of that I wonder

>> if they should be allowed to operate a toaster...nevermind actually

>> installing an operating system.

>>

>

> Any recommendations re toasters? I am getting one for my birthday to

> burn CDs..

>

> (Someone had to say it)

Hahahaha!!! Now that was a good one, thanks for that. =)

--

Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

君のこと思い出す日なんてないのは

君のこと忘れたときがないから

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "Stephan Rose" <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> wrote in message

> news:Z6WdnZP9nbXIjovanZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com...

>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:27:23 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>

>>> <spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

>>> news:aeqfu4-0re.ln1@ridcully.ntlworld.com...

>>>> In the sacred domain of comp.os.linux.advocacy, dennis@home

>>>> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:

>>>>>

>> 3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>>

>>>>> and a few I have forgotten.

>>>>> Which have you installed?

>>>>

>>>> Too many.

>>>>

>>>>> Do you doubt it?

>>>>> Have you never installed windows?

>>>>

>>>> As I said, Too many times.

>>>>

>>>>>> Let's see some proof that linux didn't warn him then, shall we?

>>>>

>>>> Didn't think so.

>>>

>>> If you are so sure it does you could show the warning. The fact that I

>>> can't show the warning is just evidence that it doesn't exist.

>>> You really should try and get the logic correct before demanding

>>> evidence.

>>

>> http://fosswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/

>> ubuntufeistyinstallpicture-8.png

>>

>> Same URL tiny:

>> http://tinyurl.com/2qc234

>

> Thanks for that.. I downloaded 7.04 to see what it did but it wouldn't

> run under VPC so I still haven't seen the install screens myself.

>

That's good. I have no knowledge about this subject but I can tell you

what's wrong.

caver1

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Stephan Rose wrote:

[snip]

>

> Dennis, it does not matter. Seriously, it does not matter. No matter how

> much you spell it out, no matter how detailed one explains...some user in

> this world simply will NOT get it.

>

You know, all this brouhaha about erasing a hard drive?

Let us put the shoe on the other foot. Say you have a Linux system and you

want to install a Windows system on it -- dual boot. Is that easier and

clearer than the way the OP complains of?

I know it is much simpler to install Windows first, but say I do not want

to. (This is a rhetorical question, although I did install Windows XP once

on a machine already running Red Hat Linux 7.3. I made three full-backup

tapes of the system first (cannot be too careful), installed Win XP which

clobbered the first of three hard drives, then restored the Linux stuff (and

boot block) of the first hard drive from backup tape. Worked fine with no

surprises.)

--

.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.

/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.

/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org

^^-^^ 22:35:01 up 11 days, 6:11, 1 user, load average: 4.25, 4.25, 4.19

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

> news:13hctdt2i2nmaa5@news.supernews.com...

>

> 8<

>

>> Linux does not tend to delete users data.

>

> This thread is about Linux deleting a users data.

>

> 8<

>

>>> I am of the opinion that software should not be able to do harm even if

>>> the user hasn't read the manuals without warning them in language they

>>> should understand i.e. not computer speak as most people don't

>>> understand it. If a user needs to read the manuals its pretty poor

>>> software and limits its potential users to a minority.

>>

>> Name any operating system that conforms to your opinion.

>

> How about the one that runs a telephone exchange?

>

Did you ever try to install the software in a #5 ESS?

--

.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.

/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.

/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org

^^-^^ 22:45:01 up 11 days, 6:21, 1 user, load average: 4.26, 4.29, 4.24

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

"Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

news:13hd1p0q7uk3u6d@news.supernews.com...

> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:12:58 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>

>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

>> news:13hctdt2i2nmaa5@news.supernews.com...

>>

>> 8<

>>

>>> Linux does not tend to delete users data.

>>

>> This thread is about Linux deleting a users data.

>>

>> 8<

>

> Linux didn't delete the user's data.. by itself. The user explicitly told

> the installer to wipe out the data.

Yes we all know that.

What is being disscussed is if the warning messages are suitable for the

intended target users as he didn't understand.

If Linux is intended for people that are computer literate then they are OK

and most such users will only make the odd mistake and will have backupos

anyway.

If Linux is going to be installable by the majority of users then I don't

think the messages or install routine are much good.

>

>>

>>>> I am of the opinion that software should not be able to do harm even

>>>> if the user hasn't read the manuals without warning them in language

>>>> they should understand i.e. not computer speak as most people don't

>>>> understand it. If a user needs to read the manuals its pretty poor

>>>> software and limits its potential users to a minority.

>>>

>>> Name any operating system that conforms to your opinion.

>>

>> How about the one that runs a telephone exchange?

>

> ... install it on a personal computer... and without any instruction.

Personal computers lack the uptime needed for the job whatever OS they run.

In fact they probably fail too often while they are in the box waiting to be

sold.

Telephone exchanges need to be up and running 365x24 with no downtime for

upgrades, etc.

I suppose that might change if people get used to the cr@p service they get

from mobiles. ;-)

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

"Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

news:13hd1t017df1377@news.supernews.com...

> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:24:41 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>

>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

>> news:13hcthh1srtj7bf@news.supernews.com...

>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:43:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>

>>> )snip)

>>>>

>>>> It has to but it does warn the user in plain English that they will

>>>> lose data if thats what they do.

>>>> Linux does not warn the user in plain English in any distro I have

>>>> installed.

>>>> It may be fine for someone like me that would probably have clicked on

>>>> expert mode and done it manually anyway but its not much use for

>>>> newbies.

>>> (snip)

>>>

>>> What were the last 3 distros you installed?

>>

>> Fedora core 3,

> 3??? 3 ???? .... real current.

>

>> gentoo (real pain that one as it didn't compile my disk

>> controller in so it wouldn't boot first time), and ubuntu (but that

>> hasn't finished yet and doesn't work on vpc),

>

> ... it works on VMWare. I installed using VMWare just to see what the

> buzz is about.

>

>>

>>>What distro do you use?

>>

>> None here (unless you count my nas drives, router and mail server) as my

>> linux notebook got dropped and the new one is vista (insurance company

>> doesn't do linux) and I haven't got around to repartitioning it yet.

>

> Wow... from your statements, you sound like you haven't used a Linux

> distro in your life.

You sound like a part of the reason Linux still isn't very popular.

You give the standard answers.. its the users fault.. he should have read

the manuals.. Linux is for real nerds.

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

"Stephan Rose" <nospam@spammer.com> wrote in message

news:uOSdnfizv4RUE4vanZ2dnUVZ8rOdnZ2d@giganews.com...

>

> And honestly, I find "...this will destroy all data..." to be more than

> clear enough. If someone can't understand the meaning of that I wonder if

> they should be allowed to operate a toaster...nevermind actually

> installing an operating system.

Well yes its perfectly clear as long as you know what "data" is.

So even a simple statement like that is assuming the user is computer

literate.

I can easily see people thinking "well I didn't buy any data so I don't have

any to destroy".

Its easy to make assumptions when you know about a subject.

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> writes:

> Let us put the shoe on the other foot. Say you have a Linux system and you

> want to install a Windows system on it -- dual boot. Is that easier and

> clearer than the way the OP complains of?

>

> I know it is much simpler to install Windows first, but say I do not want

> to. (This is a rhetorical question, although I did install Windows XP once

> on a machine already running Red Hat Linux 7.3. I made three full-backup

> tapes of the system first (cannot be too careful), installed Win XP which

> clobbered the first of three hard drives, then restored the Linux stuff (and

> boot block) of the first hard drive from backup tape. Worked fine with no

> surprises.)

I know someone who had Windows on a laptop and wanted to add a Linux

partition. He used Partition Magic and had no problems. Ditto when he

wanted to uninstall Linux and make the whole thing Windows again. One

thing I don't know is whether you can start with a PC running Linux

and use Partition Magic to add a Windows partition without trashing the

Linux partition. Partition Magic can reapportion an existing Windows partition

intelligently but it seems unlikely it can do the same for a Linux partition.

--

Ignorantly,

Allan Adler <ara@zurich.csail.mit.edu>

* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and

* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

"caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

news:OFfUC9QEIHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> dennis@home wrote:

>>

>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

>> news:13hctdt2i2nmaa5@news.supernews.com...

>>

>> 8<

>>

>>> Linux does not tend to delete users data.

>>

>> This thread is about Linux deleting a users data.

>>

>> 8<

>>

>>>> I am of the opinion that software should not be able to do harm even if

>>>> the user hasn't read the manuals without warning them in language they

>>>> should understand i.e. not computer speak as most people don't

>>>> understand it. If a user needs to read the manuals its pretty poor

>>>> software and limits its potential users to a minority.

>>>

>

> Thats like buying a gun. Lets play Russian roulette. The gun can't wipe my

> brain because.......

That's why gun controls exist..are you suggesting licenses for Linux?

BTW I'm in the UK so I don't know if you need a license in the USA just that

it appears not.

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

"caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

news:eYFL5DSEIHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> dennis@home wrote:

>>

>> "Stephan Rose" <nospam.noway@screwspammers.com> wrote in message

>> news:Z6WdnZP9nbXIjovanZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@giganews.com...

>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:27:23 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>

>>>> <spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message

>>>> news:aeqfu4-0re.ln1@ridcully.ntlworld.com...

>>>>> In the sacred domain of comp.os.linux.advocacy, dennis@home

>>>>> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:

>>>>>>

>>> 3.0,3.1,3.11,95,98,98se,nt,2000,xp,vista,soaris,fedora,unixware,ubuntu,rmx

>>>>>> and a few I have forgotten.

>>>>>> Which have you installed?

>>>>>

>>>>> Too many.

>>>>>

>>>>>> Do you doubt it?

>>>>>> Have you never installed windows?

>>>>>

>>>>> As I said, Too many times.

>>>>>

>>>>>>> Let's see some proof that linux didn't warn him then, shall we?

>>>>>

>>>>> Didn't think so.

>>>>

>>>> If you are so sure it does you could show the warning. The fact that I

>>>> can't show the warning is just evidence that it doesn't exist.

>>>> You really should try and get the logic correct before demanding

>>>> evidence.

>>>

>>> http://fosswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/

>>> ubuntufeistyinstallpicture-8.png

>>>

>>> Same URL tiny:

>>> http://tinyurl.com/2qc234

>>

>> Thanks for that.. I downloaded 7.04 to see what it did but it wouldn't

>> run under VPC so I still haven't seen the install screens myself.

>>

>

> That's good. I have no knowledge about this subject but I can tell you

> what's wrong.

That's not actually true.

I am like many users who have done it before and can't remember what it says

and we have the screen shoots posted assuming they are genuine.

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

"Jean-David Beyer" <jeandavid8@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:hOzRi.8627$0k2.3828@trnddc05...

> dennis@home wrote:

>>

>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

>> news:13hctdt2i2nmaa5@news.supernews.com...

>>

>> 8<

>>

>>> Linux does not tend to delete users data.

>>

>> This thread is about Linux deleting a users data.

>>

>> 8<

>>

>>>> I am of the opinion that software should not be able to do harm even if

>>>> the user hasn't read the manuals without warning them in language they

>>>> should understand i.e. not computer speak as most people don't

>>>> understand it. If a user needs to read the manuals its pretty poor

>>>> software and limits its potential users to a minority.

>>>

>>> Name any operating system that conforms to your opinion.

>>

>> How about the one that runs a telephone exchange?

>>

> Did you ever try to install the software in a #5 ESS?

No I worked on System X in the UK as part of the design team for the fault

resilient processor.

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "Stephan Rose" <nospam@spammer.com> wrote in message

> news:uOSdnfizv4RUE4vanZ2dnUVZ8rOdnZ2d@giganews.com...

>

>>

>> And honestly, I find "...this will destroy all data..." to be more than

>> clear enough. If someone can't understand the meaning of that I wonder if

>> they should be allowed to operate a toaster...nevermind actually

>> installing an operating system.

>

> Well yes its perfectly clear as long as you know what "data" is.

> So even a simple statement like that is assuming the user is computer

> literate.

> I can easily see people thinking "well I didn't buy any data so I don't

> have any to destroy".

> Its easy to make assumptions when you know about a subject.

And cretinous statements like these here make it perfectly clear that you

are indeed a vista user.

You are actually telling us that someone who has no idea what "data" is has

any business installing an OS?

Gods, are you stupid. You and Vista are a perfect match

--

Warning: You have moved the mouse.

Windows will reboot now to make the change permanent

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:13:20 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

> news:13hd1p0q7uk3u6d@news.supernews.com...

>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:12:58 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>

>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:13hctdt2i2nmaa5@news.supernews.com...

>>>

>>> 8<

>>>

>>>> Linux does not tend to delete users data.

>>>

>>> This thread is about Linux deleting a users data.

>>>

>>> 8<

>>

>> Linux didn't delete the user's data.. by itself. The user explicitly

>> told the installer to wipe out the data.

>

> Yes we all know that.

> What is being disscussed is if the warning messages are suitable for the

> intended target users as he didn't understand.

If he doesn't understand partitioning hard drives, he shouldn't be

partitioning them, or he should accept the responsibility and

consequences.

> If Linux is intended for

> people that are computer literate then they are OK and most such users

> will only make the odd mistake and will have backupos anyway.

> If Linux is going to be installable by the majority of users then I

> don't think the messages or install routine are much good.

Linux is at least as installable as Windows. IMO it installs easier.

>>>>> I am of the opinion that software should not be able to do harm even

>>>>> if the user hasn't read the manuals without warning them in language

>>>>> they should understand i.e. not computer speak as most people don't

>>>>> understand it. If a user needs to read the manuals its pretty poor

>>>>> software and limits its potential users to a minority.

>>>>

>>>> Name any operating system that conforms to your opinion.

>>>

>>> How about the one that runs a telephone exchange?

>>

>> ... install it on a personal computer... and without any instruction.

>

> Personal computers lack the uptime needed for the job whatever OS they

> run.

What? They do fine as small web servers, wp, ss, smallish databases,

graphic editing, web surfing, and a large amount of other tasks.

> In fact they probably fail too often while they are in the box

> waiting to be sold.

> Telephone exchanges need to be up and running 365x24 with no downtime

> for upgrades, etc.

That has nothing to do with Joe Sixpack installing an operating system.

> I suppose that might change if people get used to the cr@p service they

> get from mobiles. ;-)

Buy a clue.

--

Rick

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:54:00 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

> news:OFfUC9QEIHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> dennis@home wrote:

>>>

>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:13hctdt2i2nmaa5@news.supernews.com...

>>>

>>> 8<

>>>

>>>> Linux does not tend to delete users data.

>>>

>>> This thread is about Linux deleting a users data.

>>>

>>> 8<

>>>

>>>>> I am of the opinion that software should not be able to do harm even

>>>>> if the user hasn't read the manuals without warning them in language

>>>>> they should understand i.e. not computer speak as most people don't

>>>>> understand it. If a user needs to read the manuals its pretty poor

>>>>> software and limits its potential users to a minority.

>>>>

>>

>> Thats like buying a gun. Lets play Russian roulette. The gun can't wipe

>> my brain because.......

>

> That's why gun controls exist..

No, it isn't.

> are you suggesting licenses for Linux?

As a matter of fact, yes. It is called the GPL.

> BTW I'm in the UK so I don't know if you need a license in the USA just

> that it appears not.

You need a license for Linux in the UK, too.

--

Rick

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:15:56 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

> news:13hd1t017df1377@news.supernews.com...

>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:24:41 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>

>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:13hcthh1srtj7bf@news.supernews.com...

>>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:43:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>

>>>> )snip)

>>>>>

>>>>> It has to but it does warn the user in plain English that they will

>>>>> lose data if thats what they do.

>>>>> Linux does not warn the user in plain English in any distro I have

>>>>> installed.

>>>>> It may be fine for someone like me that would probably have clicked

>>>>> on expert mode and done it manually anyway but its not much use for

>>>>> newbies.

>>>> (snip)

>>>>

>>>> What were the last 3 distros you installed?

>>>

>>> Fedora core 3,

>> 3??? 3 ???? .... real current.

>>

>>> gentoo (real pain that one as it didn't compile my disk controller in

>>> so it wouldn't boot first time), and ubuntu (but that hasn't finished

>>> yet and doesn't work on vpc),

>>

>> ... it works on VMWare. I installed using VMWare just to see what the

>> buzz is about.

>>

>>>>What distro do you use?

>>>

>>> None here (unless you count my nas drives, router and mail server) as

>>> my linux notebook got dropped and the new one is vista (insurance

>>> company doesn't do linux) and I haven't got around to repartitioning

>>> it yet.

>>

>> Wow... from your statements, you sound like you haven't used a Linux

>> distro in your life.

>

> You sound like a part of the reason Linux still isn't very popular. You

> give the standard answers.. its the users fault..

It was the users fault. He wiped his hard drive. It would have been the

same if he had tried to install Windows.

> he should have read the manuals..

He should have read about partitioning hard drives. It seems the prase

"use the whole disk" was too complicated.

> Linux is for real nerds.

I have never said that. Linux/OSS is not just for nerds.

--

Rick

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:24:13 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> "Stephan Rose" <nospam@spammer.com> wrote in message

> news:uOSdnfizv4RUE4vanZ2dnUVZ8rOdnZ2d@giganews.com...

>

>> And honestly, I find "...this will destroy all data..." to be more than

>> clear enough. If someone can't understand the meaning of that I wonder

>> if they should be allowed to operate a toaster...nevermind actually

>> installing an operating system.

>

> Well yes its perfectly clear as long as you know what "data" is. So even

> a simple statement like that is assuming the user is computer literate.

> I can easily see people thinking "well I didn't buy any data so I don't

> have any to destroy".

> Its easy to make assumptions when you know about a subject.

If a person is that illiterate, that person should not install an

operating system. Period. Not Windows. Not OS X. Not Linux. That person

should take his box to a store or a technician or someone that know what

they are doing.

--

Rick

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

dennis@home wrote:

>

> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

> news:OFfUC9QEIHA.5228@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> dennis@home wrote:

>>>

>>> "Rick" <none@nomail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:13hctdt2i2nmaa5@news.supernews.com...

>>>

>>> 8<

>>>

>>>> Linux does not tend to delete users data.

>>>

>>> This thread is about Linux deleting a users data.

>>>

>>> 8<

>>>

>>>>> I am of the opinion that software should not be able to do harm

>>>>> even if

>>>>> the user hasn't read the manuals without warning them in language they

>>>>> should understand i.e. not computer speak as most people don't

>>>>> understand it. If a user needs to read the manuals its pretty poor

>>>>> software and limits its potential users to a minority.

>>>>

>>

>> Thats like buying a gun. Lets play Russian roulette. The gun can't

>> wipe my brain because.......

>

> That's why gun controls exist..are you suggesting licenses for Linux?

> BTW I'm in the UK so I don't know if you need a license in the USA just

> that it appears not.

Then by you're argument you should be licensed before you can load an OS.

But then again gun controls are only good for those who want to follow them

or even know what they are.

You can take the "but what if the user doesn't know" to extremes that no

one can answer.

If you are going to use something you must learn at least the basics.

Even with gun control a person needs to know what end the bullet comes out.

Can't blame the manufacturer if you blow your own head off.

Yes the US has some gun control. Not as strong as a lot of other countries.

caver1

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:24:13 +0100, "dennis@home"

<dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:

>Its easy to make assumptions when you know about a subject.

Too funny! You mean you THINK you know the subject and since when is

it acceptable to make sweeping assumptions?

You prove you don't have a clue every day... that's the fanboy way. A

few months ago the same gang of idiots were screaming no, no, using a

Registry Cleaner is bad, bad, don't do it. Now they're starting to

beat the drum about overclocking, bad, bad, don't do that either. Just

more ignorance, that this newsgroup has in surplus. I will admit you

clowns are funny. A must read like the newspaper comics. I look

forward to seeing what the fanboys will get wrong next.

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

"caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

8<

Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant.

Having downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing I

notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if I select use

the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.

>>>>>>>>

The partition tables of the following devices are changed:

SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)

The following partitions are going to be formatted:

partition #1 of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3

partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

<<<<<<<<<

For use entire disk

and

>>>>>>>>>>

The partition tables of the following devices are changed:

SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)

The following partitions are going to be formatted:

partition #1 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3

partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

<<<<<<<<<<<

For use largest free space.

One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't.

Does anyone still think the warnings are OK?

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Summercool wrote:

> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/4e798345b0867259/a47e92401f123e53#a47e92401f123e53

>> Installing Ubuntu erased the whole hard drive without warning

>

> Partition merely means dividing the data.

No it doesn't - it's got NOTHING to do with "dividing the data"

(whatever THAT means....)

I suggest you do some serious reading on what a partition is, before you

spout that twaddle again...

October 18, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Summercool wrote:

> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/4e798345b0867259/a47e92401f123e53#a47e92401f123e53

>> Installing Ubuntu erased the whole hard drive without warning

>

> Partition merely means dividing the data.

No it doesn't - it's got NOTHING to do with "dividing the data"

(whatever THAT means....)

I suggest you do some serious reading on what a partition is, before you

spout that twaddle again...

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