Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

caver1 wrote:

> Unruh wrote:

>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)

>> impossible to

>> find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing needs to be set up

>> to allow installation by users. If the installer does not give adequate

>> warning that things are going to be destroyed, it is the fault of the

>> installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and

>> whether or not they are adequate.

>

> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if they

> are given or not,

> how can you even comment?

> caver1

The warnings on our local gasoline pumps are adequate but that doesn't

stop the occasional unforeseen error or some idiot setting themselves

alight.

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>Unruh wrote:

>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>

>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>

>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>

>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> 8<

>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant.

>>>>>>>> Having downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing

>>>>>>>> I notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if I

>>>>>>>> select use

>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>> SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't.

>>>>>>>> Does anyone still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions were

>>>>>>> created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your Win

>>>>>>> partition, the ball game is over.

>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to use

>>>>>>> the whole disk.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need for

>>>>>> more warnings or just a better partitioner but that

>>>>>> is an addition.

>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows data.

>>>>> (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you managed to

>>>>> repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was before, you

>>>>> could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant to almost all

>>>>> users. It is the partitioning that destroys the ability to access the

>>>>> data). Thus if there is no warning on the repartitioning then that is

>>>>> where the problem lies.

>>>>>

>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions and

>>>> then applies the changes.

>>

>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>

>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts up

>>>> the warning about destroying data.

>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I

>>>> have not checked myself).

>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users and

>>>> in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>

>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>

>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost) impossible to

>> find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing needs to be set up

>> to allow installation by users. If the installer does not give adequate

>> warning that things are going to be destroyed, it is the fault of the

>> installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and

>> whether or not they are adequate.

>>

>If you have no idea whether they are adequate or

>not, or even if they are given or not,

>how can you even comment?

I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the previous

comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the conditional (If) I

seems from various comments that it does NOT give adequate warning, and the

warning that was posted was certainly well beyond the point at which a

warning should have been given. Do you have more information about what the

warning actually is?

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

In the sacred domain of comp.os.linux.advocacy,

Unruh <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> didnst hastily scribble thusly:

>>Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users.

Is that what he said?

he didn't say any, he said THOSE. Those being the ones so STUPID they'd try

to stop a chainsaw with their genitals if it didn't say not to on the label.

People like the original poster.

> It is (almost) impossible to

> find Linux preinstalled.

Then use it as a live CD until you can find a friend who knows what a disk

partition is.

--

______________________________________________________________________________

| spike1@freenet.co.uk | |

|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |

| in | suck is probably the day they start making |

| Computer science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Unruh wrote:

> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>

>> Unruh wrote:

>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>

>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>> 8<

>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant.

>>>>>>>>> Having downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing

>>>>>>>>> I notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if I

>>>>>>>>> select use

>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.

>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.

>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't.

>>>>>>>>> Does anyone still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions were

>>>>>>>> created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your Win

>>>>>>>> partition, the ball game is over.

>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to use

>>>>>>>> the whole disk.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need for

>>>>>>> more warnings or just a better partitioner but that

>>>>>>> is an addition.

>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows data.

>>>>>> (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you managed to

>>>>>> repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was before, you

>>>>>> could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant to almost all

>>>>>> users. It is the partitioning that destroys the ability to access the

>>>>>> data). Thus if there is no warning on the repartitioning then that is

>>>>>> where the problem lies.

>>>>>>

>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions and

>>>>> then applies the changes.

>>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts up

>>>>> the warning about destroying data.

>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I

>>>>> have not checked myself).

>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users and

>>>>> in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost) impossible to

>>> find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing needs to be set up

>>> to allow installation by users. If the installer does not give adequate

>>> warning that things are going to be destroyed, it is the fault of the

>>> installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and

>>> whether or not they are adequate.

>>>

>

>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or

>> not, or even if they are given or not,

>> how can you even comment?

>

> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the previous

> comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the conditional (If) I

> seems from various comments that it does NOT give adequate warning, and the

> warning that was posted was certainly well beyond the point at which a

> warning should have been given. Do you have more information about what the

> warning actually is?

Here is a quote as I haven't figured out how to

get a screen shot in here,

"If you continue,the changes listed below

will be written to the

disks. Otherwise, you will be able to make further

changes manually.

Warning: This will destroy all data on any

partition you have removed as well as on the

partitions that are going to be formatted.

.................................

Write the changes to disk?"

caver1

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 01:03:24 +0000, Unruh wrote:

> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>

>>On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>

>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>

>>>>>"Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>"caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>8<

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>Having downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start

>>>>>>>installing I notice that I get the same warning screen (identical

>>>>>>>AFAICS) if I select use

>>>>>>>the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>(0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>For use entire disk

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>and

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>(0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>

>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>For use largest free space.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>Does anyone still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions were

>>>>>> created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your Win

>>>>>> partition, the ball game is over.

>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to use

>>>>>> the whole disk.

>>>>>>

>>>>>As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need

>>>>>for more warnings or just a better partitioner but that is an

>>>>>addition.

>>>>

>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows

>>>> data. (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you

>>>> managed to repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was

>>>> before, you could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant to

>>>> almost all users. It is the partitioning that destroys the ability to

>>>> access the data). Thus if there is no warning on the repartitioning

>>>> then that is where the problem lies.

>>>>

>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions

>>> and then applies the changes.

>

>>No, the user applies the changes.

>

>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts up

>>> the warning about destroying data.

>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I

>>> have not checked myself).

>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users

>>> and in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>

>>Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>

> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users.

IMO, it can easily be installed by most computer literate users. Those

users that shouldn't be installing LInux, also shouldn't be installing

Windows and maybe not even MacOS.

> It is (almost) impossible to find Linux preinstalled.

Well, there is Dell, if you look hard. :-)

> Thus the installation routing needs to be

> set up to allow installation by users. If the installer does not give

> adequate warning that things are going to be destroyed, it is the fault

> of the installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1

> gives and whether or not they are adequate.

There have been screen shots posted in this thread.

>

> The user does NOT apply the changes. The user at best agrees to allow

> the system to apply those changes.

OK, the user makes the decision.

> At worst he has no choice, other than the choice to install.

The user has a number of choices. Go install Ubuntu somewhere.

--

Rick

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:43:32 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:

> caver1 wrote:

>> Unruh wrote:

>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>

>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)

>>> impossible to

>>> find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing needs to be set

>>> up to allow installation by users. If the installer does not give

>>> adequate warning that things are going to be destroyed, it is the

>>> fault of the installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what warnings

>>> Ubuntu 7.1 gives and whether or not they are adequate.

>>

>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if they

>> are given or not,

>> how can you even comment?

>> caver1

>

> The warnings on our local gasoline pumps are adequate but that doesn't

> stop the occasional unforeseen error or some idiot setting themselves

> alight.

.... then the warnings are adequate and the idiot shouldn't be pumping gas.

--

Rick

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 05:45:54 +0000, Unruh wrote:

> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>

>>Unruh wrote:

>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>

>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>

>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> 8<

>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant. Having

>>>>>>>>> downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing I

>>>>>>>>> notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if

>>>>>>>>> I select use

>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1

>>>>>>>>> of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as

>>>>>>>>> swap <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1

>>>>>>>>> of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>> as swap <<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't. Does anyone

>>>>>>>>> still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions

>>>>>>>> were created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your

>>>>>>>> Win partition, the ball game is over.

>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to

>>>>>>>> use the whole disk.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need

>>>>>>> for more warnings or just a better partitioner but that is an

>>>>>>> addition.

>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows

>>>>>> data. (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you

>>>>>> managed to repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was

>>>>>> before, you could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant

>>>>>> to almost all users. It is the partitioning that destroys the

>>>>>> ability to access the data). Thus if there is no warning on the

>>>>>> repartitioning then that is where the problem lies.

>>>>>>

>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions

>>>>> and then applies the changes.

>>>

>>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>>

>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts

>>>>> up the warning about destroying data.

>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I

>>>>> have not checked myself).

>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users

>>>>> and in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>>

>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>>

>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)

>>> impossible to find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing

>>> needs to be set up to allow installation by users. If the installer

>>> does not give adequate warning that things are going to be destroyed,

>>> it is the fault of the installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what

>>> warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and whether or not they are adequate.

>>>

>

>>If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if they

>>are given or not, how can you even comment?

>

> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the

> previous comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the

> conditional (If) I seems from various comments that it does NOT give

> adequate warning, and the warning that was posted was certainly well

> beyond the point at which a warning should have been given. Do you have

> more information about what the warning actually is?

There have been at least 2 screenshots posted.

The original poster's:

<http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg>

And another:

<http://www.saunalahti.fi/pirisisi/test/kubuntuinstallation.png>

The second is a kubuntu install.

--

Rick

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:18:14 -0400, caver1 wrote:

> Unruh wrote:

>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>>

>>> Unruh wrote:

>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>>

>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... 8<

>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant. Having

>>>>>>>>>> downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing I

>>>>>>>>>> notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if

>>>>>>>>>> I select use

>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space. The

>>>>>>>>>> partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed:

>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.

>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't. Does anyone

>>>>>>>>>> still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions

>>>>>>>>> were created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your

>>>>>>>>> Win partition, the ball game is over.

>>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to

>>>>>>>>> use the whole disk.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a

>>>>>>>> need for more warnings or just a better partitioner but that is

>>>>>>>> an addition.

>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows

>>>>>>> data. (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you

>>>>>>> managed to repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it

>>>>>>> was before, you could recover the data, but that is largely

>>>>>>> irrelevant to almost all users. It is the partitioning that

>>>>>>> destroys the ability to access the data). Thus if there is no

>>>>>>> warning on the repartitioning then that is where the problem lies.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions

>>>>>> and then applies the changes.

>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts

>>>>>> up the warning about destroying data.

>>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made,

>>>>>> I have not checked myself).

>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users

>>>>>> and in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)

>>>> impossible to find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing

>>>> needs to be set up to allow installation by users. If the installer

>>>> does not give adequate warning that things are going to be destroyed,

>>>> it is the fault of the installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what

>>>> warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and whether or not they are adequate.

>>>>

>>

>>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if they

>>> are given or not, how can you even comment?

>>

>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the

>> previous comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the

>> conditional (If) I seems from various comments that it does NOT give

>> adequate warning, and the warning that was posted was certainly well

>> beyond the point at which a warning should have been given. Do you have

>> more information about what the warning actually is?

>

> Here is a quote as I haven't figured out how to get a screen shot in

> here,

> "If you continue,the changes listed below

> will be written to the

> disks. Otherwise, you will be able to make further changes manually.

>

> Warning: This will destroy all data on any partition you have removed

> as well as on the partitions that are going to be formatted.

> ................................

> Write the changes to disk?"

>

> caver1

There are several web sites that allow you to post pictures. You could

get an account, post screen shots there, and post a url.

--

Rick

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Rick wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:18:14 -0400, caver1 wrote:

>

>> Unruh wrote:

>>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>>>

>>>> Unruh wrote:

>>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>>>

>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... 8<

>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant. Having

>>>>>>>>>>> downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing I

>>>>>>>>>>> notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if

>>>>>>>>>>> I select use

>>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space. The

>>>>>>>>>>> partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed:

>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.

>>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't. Does anyone

>>>>>>>>>>> still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions

>>>>>>>>>> were created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your

>>>>>>>>>> Win partition, the ball game is over.

>>>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to

>>>>>>>>>> use the whole disk.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a

>>>>>>>>> need for more warnings or just a better partitioner but that is

>>>>>>>>> an addition.

>>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows

>>>>>>>> data. (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you

>>>>>>>> managed to repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it

>>>>>>>> was before, you could recover the data, but that is largely

>>>>>>>> irrelevant to almost all users. It is the partitioning that

>>>>>>>> destroys the ability to access the data). Thus if there is no

>>>>>>>> warning on the repartitioning then that is where the problem lies.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions

>>>>>>> and then applies the changes.

>>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts

>>>>>>> up the warning about destroying data.

>>>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made,

>>>>>>> I have not checked myself).

>>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users

>>>>>>> and in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)

>>>>> impossible to find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing

>>>>> needs to be set up to allow installation by users. If the installer

>>>>> does not give adequate warning that things are going to be destroyed,

>>>>> it is the fault of the installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what

>>>>> warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and whether or not they are adequate.

>>>>>

>>>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if they

>>>> are given or not, how can you even comment?

>>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the

>>> previous comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the

>>> conditional (If) I seems from various comments that it does NOT give

>>> adequate warning, and the warning that was posted was certainly well

>>> beyond the point at which a warning should have been given. Do you have

>>> more information about what the warning actually is?

>>

>> Here is a quote as I haven't figured out how to get a screen shot in

>> here,

>> "If you continue,the changes listed below

>> will be written to the

>> disks. Otherwise, you will be able to make further changes manually.

>>

>> Warning: This will destroy all data on any partition you have removed

>> as well as on the partitions that are going to be formatted.

>> ................................

>> Write the changes to disk?"

>>

>> caver1

>

> There are several web sites that allow you to post pictures. You could

> get an account, post screen shots there, and post a url.

>

Its not really worth getting another account

somewhere just to refute someones

constant "what if".

What if the world was flat. Just because you say

it isn't why should I believe you?

After all I'm blind and can't see it for myself.

caver1

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:36:58 -0400, caver1 wrote:

> Rick wrote:

>> On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:18:14 -0400, caver1 wrote:

>>

>>> Unruh wrote:

>>>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>>>>

>>>>> Unruh wrote:

>>>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... 8< Anyway we

>>>>>>>>>>>> will forget licenses as that is irrelevant. Having downloaded

>>>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing I notice

>>>>>>>>>>>> that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if I

>>>>>>>>>>>> select use

>>>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space. The

>>>>>>>>>>>> partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed:

>>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<<< For use largest free

>>>>>>>>>>>> space.

>>>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't. Does anyone

>>>>>>>>>>>> still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions

>>>>>>>>>>> were created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your

>>>>>>>>>>> Win partition, the ball game is over. The place that the

>>>>>>>>>>> warning should occur is when you tell it to use the whole

>>>>>>>>>>> disk.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a

>>>>>>>>>> need for more warnings or just a better partitioner but that is

>>>>>>>>>> an addition.

>>>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows

>>>>>>>>> data. (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you

>>>>>>>>> managed to repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it

>>>>>>>>> was before, you could recover the data, but that is largely

>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to almost all users. It is the partitioning that

>>>>>>>>> destroys the ability to access the data). Thus if there is no

>>>>>>>>> warning on the repartitioning then that is where the problem

>>>>>>>>> lies.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more

>>>>>>>> questions and then applies the changes.

>>>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it

>>>>>>>> puts up the warning about destroying data. If you abort no

>>>>>>>> changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I have not

>>>>>>>> checked myself).

>>>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of

>>>>>>>> users and in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)

>>>>>> impossible to find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation

>>>>>> routing needs to be set up to allow installation by users. If the

>>>>>> installer does not give adequate warning that things are going to

>>>>>> be destroyed, it is the fault of the installer. It is a bug. I have

>>>>>> no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and whether or not they are

>>>>>> adequate.

>>>>>>

>>>>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if

>>>>> they are given or not, how can you even comment?

>>>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the

>>>> previous comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the

>>>> conditional (If) I seems from various comments that it does NOT give

>>>> adequate warning, and the warning that was posted was certainly well

>>>> beyond the point at which a warning should have been given. Do you

>>>> have more information about what the warning actually is?

>>>

>>> Here is a quote as I haven't figured out how to get a screen shot in

>>> here,

>>> "If you continue,the changes listed below

>>> will be written to the

>>> disks. Otherwise, you will be able to make further changes manually.

>>>

>>> Warning: This will destroy all data on any partition you have removed

>>> as well as on the partitions that are going to be formatted.

>>> ................................

>>> Write the changes to disk?"

>>>

>>> caver1

>>

>> There are several web sites that allow you to post pictures. You could

>> get an account, post screen shots there, and post a url.

>>

>

> Its not really worth getting another account somewhere just to refute

> someones

> constant "what if".

> What if the world was flat. Just because you say it isn't why should I

> believe you?

> After all I'm blind and can't see it for myself. caver1

I was just making a suggestion ...

--

Rick

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>Unruh wrote:

>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>>

>>> Unruh wrote:

>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>>

>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>>> 8<

>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant.

>>>>>>>>>> Having downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing

>>>>>>>>>> I notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if I

>>>>>>>>>> select use

>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.

>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.

>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't.

>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions were

>>>>>>>>> created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your Win

>>>>>>>>> partition, the ball game is over.

>>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to use

>>>>>>>>> the whole disk.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need for

>>>>>>>> more warnings or just a better partitioner but that

>>>>>>>> is an addition.

>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows data.

>>>>>>> (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you managed to

>>>>>>> repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was before, you

>>>>>>> could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant to almost all

>>>>>>> users. It is the partitioning that destroys the ability to access the

>>>>>>> data). Thus if there is no warning on the repartitioning then that is

>>>>>>> where the problem lies.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions and

>>>>>> then applies the changes.

>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts up

>>>>>> the warning about destroying data.

>>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I

>>>>>> have not checked myself).

>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users and

>>>>>> in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost) impossible to

>>>> find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing needs to be set up

>>>> to allow installation by users. If the installer does not give adequate

>>>> warning that things are going to be destroyed, it is the fault of the

>>>> installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and

>>>> whether or not they are adequate.

>>>>

>>

>>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or

>>> not, or even if they are given or not,

>>> how can you even comment?

>>

>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the previous

>> comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the conditional (If) I

>> seems from various comments that it does NOT give adequate warning, and the

>> warning that was posted was certainly well beyond the point at which a

>> warning should have been given. Do you have more information about what the

>> warning actually is?

>Here is a quote as I haven't figured out how to

>get a screen shot in here,

> "If you continue,the changes listed below

>will be written to the

>disks. Otherwise, you will be able to make further

>changes manually.

>Warning: This will destroy all data on any

>partition you have removed as well as on the

>partitions that are going to be formatted.

>................................

>Write the changes to disk?"

>caver1

I believe that occurs during the formatting, not the selection of

partitions. And the warning is generic. It comes up if you placed

partitions onto a completely empty disk, as well as one that was previously

partitioned. The system KNOWS if the disk had previous partitions on it. It

is at that point that the system should warn you, not after it has

repartitioned the disk. It especially KNOWS if there were NTFS partitions

on the disk previously. That is when it should give the warning. IF the

user selects manaul repartitioning, the system may well assume that he

knows what he is doing. If the system automatically repartitions the disk

for the user, the system should assume that the person's grasp of

partitioning is weak and be extra careful to give warnings, and not generic

idiotic warnings like the above, which you get if you partition a brand new

completely blank disk.

I believe that the OP stated that the Ubuntu people have admitted that the

lack of warning is a bug. If there is a lack of warning at the

repartitioning stage, then that IS a bug.

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Rick wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:36:58 -0400, caver1 wrote:

>

>> Rick wrote:

>>> On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:18:14 -0400, caver1 wrote:

>>>

>>>> Unruh wrote:

>>>>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Unruh wrote:

>>>>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... 8< Anyway we

>>>>>>>>>>>>> will forget licenses as that is irrelevant. Having downloaded

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing I notice

>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if I

>>>>>>>>>>>>> select use

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space. The

>>>>>>>>>>>>> partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed:

>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<<< For use largest free

>>>>>>>>>>>>> space.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't. Does anyone

>>>>>>>>>>>>> still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions

>>>>>>>>>>>> were created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your

>>>>>>>>>>>> Win partition, the ball game is over. The place that the

>>>>>>>>>>>> warning should occur is when you tell it to use the whole

>>>>>>>>>>>> disk.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a

>>>>>>>>>>> need for more warnings or just a better partitioner but that is

>>>>>>>>>>> an addition.

>>>>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows

>>>>>>>>>> data. (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you

>>>>>>>>>> managed to repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it

>>>>>>>>>> was before, you could recover the data, but that is largely

>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant to almost all users. It is the partitioning that

>>>>>>>>>> destroys the ability to access the data). Thus if there is no

>>>>>>>>>> warning on the repartitioning then that is where the problem

>>>>>>>>>> lies.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more

>>>>>>>>> questions and then applies the changes.

>>>>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>>>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it

>>>>>>>>> puts up the warning about destroying data. If you abort no

>>>>>>>>> changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I have not

>>>>>>>>> checked myself).

>>>>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of

>>>>>>>>> users and in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>>>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>>>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)

>>>>>>> impossible to find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation

>>>>>>> routing needs to be set up to allow installation by users. If the

>>>>>>> installer does not give adequate warning that things are going to

>>>>>>> be destroyed, it is the fault of the installer. It is a bug. I have

>>>>>>> no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and whether or not they are

>>>>>>> adequate.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if

>>>>>> they are given or not, how can you even comment?

>>>>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the

>>>>> previous comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the

>>>>> conditional (If) I seems from various comments that it does NOT give

>>>>> adequate warning, and the warning that was posted was certainly well

>>>>> beyond the point at which a warning should have been given. Do you

>>>>> have more information about what the warning actually is?

>>>> Here is a quote as I haven't figured out how to get a screen shot in

>>>> here,

>>>> "If you continue,the changes listed below

>>>> will be written to the

>>>> disks. Otherwise, you will be able to make further changes manually.

>>>>

>>>> Warning: This will destroy all data on any partition you have removed

>>>> as well as on the partitions that are going to be formatted.

>>>> ................................

>>>> Write the changes to disk?"

>>>>

>>>> caver1

>>> There are several web sites that allow you to post pictures. You could

>>> get an account, post screen shots there, and post a url.

>>>

>> Its not really worth getting another account somewhere just to refute

>> someones

>> constant "what if".

>> What if the world was flat. Just because you say it isn't why should I

>> believe you?

>> After all I'm blind and can't see it for myself. caver1

>

> I was just making a suggestion ...

>

Appreciated. :)

caver1

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Unruh wrote:

> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>

>> Unruh wrote:

>>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>>>

>>>> Unruh wrote:

>>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>>>

>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>>>> 8<

>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant.

>>>>>>>>>>> Having downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing

>>>>>>>>>>> I notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if I

>>>>>>>>>>> select use

>>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.

>>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1 of

>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap

>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.

>>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't.

>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions were

>>>>>>>>>> created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your Win

>>>>>>>>>> partition, the ball game is over.

>>>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to use

>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need for

>>>>>>>>> more warnings or just a better partitioner but that

>>>>>>>>> is an addition.

>>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows data.

>>>>>>>> (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you managed to

>>>>>>>> repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was before, you

>>>>>>>> could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant to almost all

>>>>>>>> users. It is the partitioning that destroys the ability to access the

>>>>>>>> data). Thus if there is no warning on the repartitioning then that is

>>>>>>>> where the problem lies.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions and

>>>>>>> then applies the changes.

>>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts up

>>>>>>> the warning about destroying data.

>>>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I

>>>>>>> have not checked myself).

>>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users and

>>>>>>> in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost) impossible to

>>>>> find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing needs to be set up

>>>>> to allow installation by users. If the installer does not give adequate

>>>>> warning that things are going to be destroyed, it is the fault of the

>>>>> installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and

>>>>> whether or not they are adequate.

>>>>>

>>>

>>>> If you have no idea whether they are adequate or

>>>> not, or even if they are given or not,

>>>> how can you even comment?

>>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the previous

>>> comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the conditional (If) I

>>> seems from various comments that it does NOT give adequate warning, and the

>>> warning that was posted was certainly well beyond the point at which a

>>> warning should have been given. Do you have more information about what the

>>> warning actually is?

>

>> Here is a quote as I haven't figured out how to

>> get a screen shot in here,

>> "If you continue,the changes listed below

>> will be written to the

>> disks. Otherwise, you will be able to make further

>> changes manually.

>

>> Warning: This will destroy all data on any

>> partition you have removed as well as on the

>> partitions that are going to be formatted.

>> ................................

>> Write the changes to disk?"

>

>> caver1

>

> I believe that occurs during the formatting, not the selection of

> partitions. And the warning is generic. It comes up if you placed

> partitions onto a completely empty disk, as well as one that was previously

> partitioned. The system KNOWS if the disk had previous partitions on it. It

> is at that point that the system should warn you, not after it has

> repartitioned the disk. It especially KNOWS if there were NTFS partitions

> on the disk previously. That is when it should give the warning. IF the

> user selects manaul repartitioning, the system may well assume that he

> knows what he is doing. If the system automatically repartitions the disk

> for the user, the system should assume that the person's grasp of

> partitioning is weak and be extra careful to give warnings, and not generic

> idiotic warnings like the above, which you get if you partition a brand new

> completely blank disk.

>

> I believe that the OP stated that the Ubuntu people have admitted that the

> lack of warning is a bug. If there is a lack of warning at the

> repartitioning stage, then that IS a bug.

>

This is after you choose what partitions you want

but before you choose to actually do

it. If you don't want to then you say no and

either use the free space or exit the install.

There are no changes to the disk until you approve

them.

caver1

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 05:45:54 +0000, Unruh wrote:

>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>>

>>>Unruh wrote:

>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>>

>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>

>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> 8<

>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant. Having

>>>>>>>>>> downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing I

>>>>>>>>>> notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if

>>>>>>>>>> I select use

>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1

>>>>>>>>>> of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as

>>>>>>>>>> swap <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1

>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1

>>>>>>>>>> of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>> as swap <<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't. Does anyone

>>>>>>>>>> still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions

>>>>>>>>> were created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your

>>>>>>>>> Win partition, the ball game is over.

>>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to

>>>>>>>>> use the whole disk.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need

>>>>>>>> for more warnings or just a better partitioner but that is an

>>>>>>>> addition.

>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win

>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is

>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows

>>>>>>> data. (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you

>>>>>>> managed to repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was

>>>>>>> before, you could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant

>>>>>>> to almost all users. It is the partitioning that destroys the

>>>>>>> ability to access the data). Thus if there is no warning on the

>>>>>>> repartitioning then that is where the problem lies.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions

>>>>>> and then applies the changes.

>>>>

>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.

>>>>

>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts

>>>>>> up the warning about destroying data.

>>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I

>>>>>> have not checked myself).

>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users

>>>>>> and in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.

>>>>

>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.

>>>>

>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)

>>>> impossible to find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing

>>>> needs to be set up to allow installation by users. If the installer

>>>> does not give adequate warning that things are going to be destroyed,

>>>> it is the fault of the installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what

>>>> warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and whether or not they are adequate.

>>>>

>>

>>>If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if they

>>>are given or not, how can you even comment?

>>

>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the

>> previous comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the

>> conditional (If) I seems from various comments that it does NOT give

>> adequate warning, and the warning that was posted was certainly well

>> beyond the point at which a warning should have been given. Do you have

>> more information about what the warning actually is?

>There have been at least 2 screenshots posted.

>The original poster's:

><http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg>

And the first gives only two choices, guided and use the whole disk, or

manual. I am sorry, that is a bug, if that disk contained a previously

installed system. Note that the kubuntu one below specifically asks if you

want to resize the prior windows partition and use the freed space. Note

also that if it detects Vista, it should tell you to go and use the Vista

resizer instead, since then it is MS fault, and because MS at least knows

what the specs are for their NTFS, which they have refused to release to

anyone else.

And note that under Ubuntu, if you choose the whole disk it does NOT say

that this will destroy all data on that disk. This is an inadequate

warning. This is a bug, and the OP had every right to be upset.

(Note that I always use manual, and accept that anything that happens is my

fault.)

>And another:

><http://www.saunalahti.fi/pirisisi/test/kubuntuinstallation.png>

And knowing this, you do not realise that the kubuntu one is different than

the ubuntu one, and gives two choices for guided partitioning, letting the

user know that is a choice and one is liable to be more destructive than

the other?

>The second is a kubuntu install.

>--

>Rick

October 21, 2007

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

Re: Ubuntu erased my whole hard drive

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:24:58 +0000, Unruh wrote:

> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>

>>On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 05:45:54 +0000, Unruh wrote:

>

>>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:

>>>

>>>>Unruh wrote:

>>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>>>>>

>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...

>>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> 8<

>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant. Having

>>>>>>>>>>> downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing

>>>>>>>>>>> I notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS)

>>>>>>>>>>> if I select use

>>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed:

>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk

>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed:

>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)

>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition

>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of

>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't. Does anyone

>>>>>>>>>>> still think the warnings are OK?

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions

>>>>>>>>>> were created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your

>>>>>>>>>> Win partition, the ball game is over. The place that the

>>>>>>>>>> warning should occur is when you tell it to use the whole disk.