Windows Keeps Freezing

[mr_banana_pants]

My computer has just started freezing as of lastnight. When i switch it on. It works for about 10mins then freezes again. No error message. I'm just forced to switch it off.

 

I've tried turning off different programmes that run on the start up. And I think i've narrowed down the problem to my external 500GB hard drive. When i've used the laptop with it switched off I haven't had the issue. The HD is nearly full.

 

Why would this be causing the problem? The HD works fine.

 

My laptop itself is pretty old so I'm presuming that wont help. Heres some stats:

 

IBM ThinkPad

Intel Pentium III 1.13GHz

512MB RAM

Windows XP Pro

Service Pack 3

Edited February 25, 2009 by mr_banana_pants

[BeeCeeBee]

It sounds like it may be an overheating problem or at least something to eliminate, This is way outside my expertise but it is possible that with the external drive attached the CPU may be working to write to it or source it for some reason and that may be causing it to work harder and get hotter.

 

Try getting a can of compressed air and blowing it into the vents on the laptop. Be careful to use only short bursts to avoid any buildup of condensation in that closed environment.

[mr_banana_pants]

It sounds like it may be an overheating problem or at least something to eliminate, This is way outside my expertise but it is possible that with the external drive attached the CPU may be working to write to it or source it for some reason and that may be causing it to work harder and get hotter.

 

Try getting a can of compressed air and blowing it into the vents on the laptop. Be careful to use only short bursts to avoid any buildup of condensation in that closed environment.

 

 

Sorry. I actually missed that off my original post. I have JUST replaced the fan in the laptop. So I could still have heating issues?

 

To be fair I think the laptop is on its last legs. I do ask a lot of it sometimes

Edited February 25, 2009 by mr_banana_pants

[Dalo Harkin]

Accessing an external HDD should not strain your system to the point of it shutting down -

enter the BIOS and see what the onboard temp sensors report back - and we can tell you if they are higher than normal -

Laptops always need to be in a ventilated position - some of the laptops have cooling fans underneath - so dont rest it on a cussion on your lap for exaample :eek:

[mr_banana_pants]

Accessing an external HDD should not strain your system to the point of it shutting down -

enter the BIOS and see what the onboard temp sensors report back - and we can tell you if they are higher than normal -

Laptops always need to be in a ventilated position - some of the laptops have cooling fans underneath - so dont rest it on a cussion on your lap for exaample :eek:

 

lol. Don't worry, its well ventilated. Plus it sits on a USB fan pad.

 

I'm not great when it comes to computers. What and where exactly am I looking for these BIOS, onboard temp sensors?

 

Thanks

[Dalo Harkin]

When the PC boots up you normally keep pressing del (it varies on models)

and when it comes up there is a black screen with about 8 options on it - there is normally a section for temps within one of the sub sections - do not change any settings - just write down and post your findings :)

[mr_banana_pants]

When the PC boots up you normally keep pressing del (it varies on models)

and when it comes up there is a black screen with about 8 options on it - there is normally a section for temps within one of the sub sections - do not change any settings - just write down and post your findings :)

 

I had a look. And couldn't find anything. However I left the laptop on the BIOS for a moment. When I looked at it again, it had done the same style of freezing.

 

I think that rules out the Ext HD.

 

I'm beginning to think maybe this fan replacement hasn't done the trick. Is it possible I haven't fitted it correctly?

[Dalo Harkin]

If its frozen at the BIOS - the BIOS is the very core of your system - no OS is running and most of the time no hardware either - can you please state which fan you replaced and what it was connected to as most fans on laptops exhaust heat - did you fit it the right way round?

[mr_banana_pants]

If its frozen at the BIOS - the BIOS is the very core of your system - no OS is running and most of the time no hardware either - can you please state which fan you replaced and what it was connected to as most fans on laptops exhaust heat - did you fit it the right way round?

 

I'm pretty sure I fit it the right way round, the plug on the fan wouldn't allow it any other way. Its been working too. I can hear and feel it. Would it work if it was fitted wrongly?

 

The fan is the following (excuse the capitals I've just copied and pasted from an email): IBM T23 HEATSINK AND FAN ASSY, IBM FRU NUMBER 26P9166

Edited February 25, 2009 by mr_banana_pants

[Dalo Harkin]

I have just looked at it - I am guessing that you got a used one as opposed to a new one - laptop components are fiddly at best, you could always just double check that you hooked it all up correctly - something is amiss somewhere whether you knocked the RAM or something - its hard to diagnose - but you have either a hardware issue or a heat issue

[Tootech]

Just reading through the thread and looking at a piccy of the fan unit, I wonder if the problem is the the seating of the heatsink on top of the CPU.

 

Laptops tend to not use the same heatsink paste as desktop machines, instead they use some kind of self adhesive thermal pad.

 

[ATTACH]405[/ATTACH]

 

Does this look like the unit you have?

 

If you look at the centre with the horrible black circle around (didn't have much time!) I think that is the CPU mating face - is there any type of material between that and the CPU top - or is it metal to metal?

Edited September 27, 2009 by Tootech

[Spools]

If you can boot long enough, there's a good software available for monitoring temps called Speedfan. You can get it here: Download SpeedFan - Access temperature sensor in your computer

 

It's rather powerful so be careful not to make any adjustments that you aren't sure of but as a monitor it works great.

[mr_banana_pants]

Just reading through the thread and looking at a piccy of the fan unit, I wonder if the problem is the the seating of the heatsink on top of the CPU.

 

Laptops tend to not use the same heatsink paste as desktop machines, instead they use some kind of self adhesive thermal pad.

 

[ATTACH]405[/ATTACH]

 

Does this look like the unit you have?

 

If you look at the centre with the horrible black circle around (didn't have much time!) I think that is the CPU mating face - is there any type of material between that and the CPU top - or is it metal to metal?

 

Sorry with late reply. Thats exactly like the fan I have. Theres no material on the part you have circled. There is some black foam around part of the outside of the fan, as in that picture

[BeeCeeBee]

Tootech is the expert here but I am pretty sure what he will say.

 

You are going to need to apply some heatsink paste or the pad material that he mentioned. If there is no seal to keep heat escaping into the body of the laptop and onto your motherboard the likelihood of overheating is enormous. This is true no matter how tight the heatsink appears to be. This can be a far greater problem with a laptop since space is confined and excess heat not expelled by the fan has nowhere to go.

 

Since there has been an overheating issue suspected from the beginning, this may either be the cause or, at least, a major contributor to the problem.

Edited February 27, 2009 by BeeCeeBee

[mr_banana_pants]

Tootech is the expert here but I am pretty sure what he will say.

 

You are going to need to apply some heatsink paste or the pad material that he mentioned. If there is no seal to keep heat escaping into the body of the laptop and onto your motherboard the likelihood of overheating is enormous. This is true no matter how tight the heatsink appears to be. This can be a far greater problem with a laptop since space is confined and excess heat not expelled by the fan has nowhere to go.

 

Since there has been an overheating issue suspected from the beginning, this may either be the cause or, at least, a major contributor to the problem.

 

Okay. I'm a bit of a novice though. What exactly am I looking at buying and where?

 

Sorry. So many stupid questions!

 

Thanks

[BeeCeeBee]

If you are planning on running out now to buy something I would go to a reputable shop and explain what you need (heatsink paste or compound) to be used in a laptop. Since this is not expensive stuff just go for the best. Then wait for someone here to tell you how to apply it in your case.

 

Otherwise I would wait for Tootech, Dalo Harkin, DirtyPolo or a knowledgeable member to suggest a specific brand or quality.

[mr_banana_pants]

If you are planning on running out now to buy something I would go to a reputable shop and explain what you need (heatsink paste or compound) to be used in a laptop. Since this is not expensive stuff just go for the best. Then wait for someone here to tell you how to apply it in your case.

 

Otherwise I would wait for Tootech, Dalo Harkin, DirtyPolo or a knowledgeable member to suggest a specific brand or quality.

 

Thanks. I'll hold off for now till I get full instructions, I don't want to screw this up lol

[BeeCeeBee]

Good decision, my experience is limited to servers with heavy heatsinks usually with a thermal compound already applied.

I doubt there is much to choose from between major brands but lets get it right.

[Dalo Harkin]

Im not convinced the top of the CPU touches the picture listed.

Banana pants - you need to help us out here - as you fitted it - can you remember if the CPU was resting against this plate?

Those thermal pads as Scott mentioned are also used to make the distance between the top of the CPU and the heatsink smaller - desktop PC coolers always fit much better.

[mr_banana_pants]

In all honestly I don't believe it was touching. I'm going to check of course. I'm at work now. As soon as I get chance to crack her open again I'll let you guys know.

 

Thanks

[Tootech]

Dalo has a point - it is really difficult for us to see just how it all fits together.

 

I have tracked down the manual which may be of some help.

 

Page 97 is where you want to be.

 

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/62p9631.pdf

 

Looking at a picture of the heatsink/fan assembly, and looking in the manual, I can see what needs doing - heatsink paste is required, but as Dalo says, it is really difficult for us to say exactly where as we don't have too much info, and pictures of both sides of the fan unit are rather scarce.

 

It will be on the downward facing part of the unit - where it touches the CPU.

 

Have a look at it all and get back to us.

[mr_banana_pants]

I've taken some photos. Apologises for the poor quality. My camera is rubbish and doesn't take a decent close up picture. Hope they help though.

 

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9139/pb030215.jpg

 

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1060/pb030207.jpg

 

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/875/pb030208.jpg

 

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7269/pb030209.jpg

 

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9767/pb030216.jpg

[mr_banana_pants]

Hi. I realise the pictures aren't great. But does anyone have any better idea of what I need to do?

 

Thanks

[DirtyPolo]

Hey, sorry about the delay in replies.

 

I do not deal with laptops very often so it is not in my expertise, so the ideal people to view your images and decide are either Dalo or Tootech and they will reply as soon as they are possible to take a look :)

 

My own thoughts would be that looking at your images, there seems to be no thermal paste between the CPU and the heatsink and as Tootech stated, it will need to be applied on the section that touches the CPU.

 

If you can work out where this area is then you know where the heatsink/thermal paste needs to go.

 

If you want help or tips about thermal paste or applying it, don't be afraid to ask.

[Tootech]

Image 30209 - I think - I hope shows the underside of the heatsink assembly - the part that actually mates up to the CPU - can you confirm that for us.

 

Images 30207 and 30208 show the top of the CPU. I can clearly see the remnants of the old thermal paste. That confirms some kind of paste was used previously. There should also be old paste on the old heatsink in the area I circled earlier in the thread. Can you have a look and confirm that too.

 

Could do with a better picture of 30209 - slightly closer and not blurred.

 

So, to do this right, you need to clean off any old material from the CPU top face, and from the heatsink mating area.

 

Clean the old material off with something like this - you may be able to get it locally rather than mail order..

 

Arctic Silver ArctiClean 30ml Thermal material remover and thermal surface purifier - Ebuyer

 

And when done, you need to add a small amount of heatsink paste, something like this

 

Arctic Silver Ceramique 2.5g tube - Ebuyer

 

You only need a small amount of paste applying to the CPU. There are lots of ways of doing it, here's a few piccies of one way.

 

Please come back to use first with the other info, before getting into this.

 

 

 

[ATTACH]420[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]421[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]422[/ATTACH]

 

Then fit the heatsink/fan assembly

Edited September 27, 2009 by Tootech