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Tricky Win98 Format


Guest Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com

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Guest Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com
Posted

Hello everyone,

 

It's been a very long time since I've been on Usenet, so please

forgive any netiquette faux pas...

 

I have what might be a bit of a tricky format of a Win98 machine...

 

It's P200MMX with two HDs. The master drive is the older and slower of

the two, and contains the system files; the slave is the newer and

faster, and has windows installed on it.

 

I'd like to format both drives, click the newer faster one onto

'master' and install windows (98) onto it in full (i.e. a normal

install, with system files and the program on the this one drive). I'd

like to switch the older and slower HD to slave and leave it as just

an internal backup, as storage only.

 

So my question is, what should I do, and I guess at least as

importantly, in what order should I do it? I'm worried about

formatting the wrong drive first, and then being 'stuck' without

control of the machine to finish the format/reinstall.

 

As you can see I really don't know a lot about this kind of thing, and

although I've tried to research the different aspects of this problem

separately, the fact that what I'm trying to do is a little convoluted

isn't helping.

 

OK, I've searched this group as well as I can, but apologies if this

has been answered before.

 

I'll check this group as often as I can (twice a week at least) and

give extra details/clarification as they're needed.

 

Thanking you in advance,

 

Wawrzyniec.

Guest GreenieLeBrun
Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format

 

 

 

Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello everyone,

>

> It's been a very long time since I've been on Usenet, so please

> forgive any netiquette faux pas...

>

> I have what might be a bit of a tricky format of a Win98 machine...

>

> It's P200MMX with two HDs. The master drive is the older and slower of

> the two, and contains the system files; the slave is the newer and

> faster, and has windows installed on it.

>

> I'd like to format both drives, click the newer faster one onto

> 'master' and install windows (98) onto it in full (i.e. a normal

> install, with system files and the program on the this one drive). I'd

> like to switch the older and slower HD to slave and leave it as just

> an internal backup, as storage only.

>

> So my question is, what should I do, and I guess at least as

> importantly, in what order should I do it? I'm worried about

> formatting the wrong drive first, and then being 'stuck' without

> control of the machine to finish the format/reinstall.

>

> As you can see I really don't know a lot about this kind of thing, and

> although I've tried to research the different aspects of this problem

> separately, the fact that what I'm trying to do is a little convoluted

> isn't helping.

>

> OK, I've searched this group as well as I can, but apologies if this

> has been answered before.

>

> I'll check this group as often as I can (twice a week at least) and

> give extra details/clarification as they're needed.

>

> Thanking you in advance,

>

> Wawrzyniec.

 

Not too tricky.

 

FIRST save all your data to an external repositry and make sure you can read

it, formatting the drives will destroy ALL the material on the drives.

 

Swap the jumpers on the two drives so that the faster disk is the master and

the slower slave.

 

Boot your machine with a Win 98 boot disk (http://www.bootdisk.com).

 

Type FDISK then delete and recreate the required partion/s on each drive,

reboot the machine from the floppy.

 

Type Format c: /u, once C: is formatted do the same for D:.

 

Reboot the machine from the floppy, place the win98 CD in the CD drive, type

X: (where X: is the letter of your CD drive (probably E: in your case)) then

Enter, next type CD win98 and hie enter, next type SETUP and hit Enter and

you are on your way.

 

Once installed you will probaly need to instal motherboard, sound, video

etc. drives. Then you software and printer drives etc.

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format

 

If retaining whatever's already on the hard disks is not an issue then it's

pretty straightforward. Before starting ...

 

Insure you have the product registration key required to do the reinstall.

 

Create an Emergency Boot Floppy, far right tab under Add/Remove Programs in

control panel under 98SE. Insure it works, e.g. use it to boot the pc (may

require changing boot order in BIOS) and also insure you can see files on a

cd after booting with the floppy, e.g. choose CD Rom support when starting

pc. Note - boot floppy creates a ram drive which pushes drive letter for CD

drive down one spot, e.g. if CD was E under Windows it's F when using boot

floppy at DOS prompt.

 

Insure you have device specific drivers you might need for your hardware and

that they've been copied onto floppy or burned to a cd for later use, e.g.

modem, network, video etc. drivers.

 

Shut down and change master/slave jumpers on hard disk.

 

Boot using floppy. Check (change) in FDISK that the "new" master hard disk

is marked Active (else it won't work to boot pc). Format both drives, e.g.

FORMAT C and FORMAT D. There's no real need to erase and recreate

partitions.

 

Run "SYS C:" to make primary hard disk bootable, e.g. has system files

required to boot. Note - not neccessary but I like to insure disk will boot

and removes need for floppy little earlier in sequence..

 

To save time later make a new folder on the newly formatted C drive and then

copy the Win98 folder off the install cd. e.g. example commands follow while

at the DOS prompt (probably A:\>), ignore comments after each line

 

C: (change to the C drive)

MD WIN98 (create a WIN98 folder)

CD WIN98 (change into that folder)

COPY F:\WIN98\*.* (C & D are hard disks, E is ram drive boot floppy

creates so F is cd drive)

 

You now have the install files all sitting on your hard disk in a WIN98

folder. Reboot pc without floppy in (why did SYS C: in earlier step). Once

pc is back to C:\> prompt change into the WIN98 folder (cd win98) and run

SETUP. Nice thing about copying folder from cd to hard disk is never have

annoyance of requiring Windows CD when installing drivers etc. sometime in

the future.

 

Think that's it.

 

<Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:96db6602-fff1-4664-a480-fb0daee6c3ef@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

> Hello everyone,

>

> It's been a very long time since I've been on Usenet, so please

> forgive any netiquette faux pas...

>

> I have what might be a bit of a tricky format of a Win98 machine...

>

> It's P200MMX with two HDs. The master drive is the older and slower of

> the two, and contains the system files; the slave is the newer and

> faster, and has windows installed on it.

>

> I'd like to format both drives, click the newer faster one onto

> 'master' and install windows (98) onto it in full (i.e. a normal

> install, with system files and the program on the this one drive). I'd

> like to switch the older and slower HD to slave and leave it as just

> an internal backup, as storage only.

>

> So my question is, what should I do, and I guess at least as

> importantly, in what order should I do it? I'm worried about

> formatting the wrong drive first, and then being 'stuck' without

> control of the machine to finish the format/reinstall.

>

> As you can see I really don't know a lot about this kind of thing, and

> although I've tried to research the different aspects of this problem

> separately, the fact that what I'm trying to do is a little convoluted

> isn't helping.

>

> OK, I've searched this group as well as I can, but apologies if this

> has been answered before.

>

> I'll check this group as often as I can (twice a week at least) and

> give extra details/clarification as they're needed.

>

> Thanking you in advance,

>

> Wawrzyniec.

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format

 

 

<Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:96db6602-fff1-4664-a480-fb0daee6c3ef@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

> Hello everyone,

>

> It's been a very long time since I've been on Usenet, so please

> forgive any netiquette faux pas...

>

> I have what might be a bit of a tricky format of a Win98 machine...

>

> It's P200MMX with two HDs. The master drive is the older and slower of

> the two, and contains the system files; the slave is the newer and

> faster, and has windows installed on it.

>

> I'd like to format both drives, click the newer faster one onto

> 'master' and install windows (98) onto it in full (i.e. a normal

> install, with system files and the program on the this one drive). I'd

> like to switch the older and slower HD to slave and leave it as just

> an internal backup, as storage only.

>

> So my question is, what should I do, and I guess at least as

> importantly, in what order should I do it? I'm worried about

> formatting the wrong drive first, and then being 'stuck' without

> control of the machine to finish the format/reinstall.

>

> As you can see I really don't know a lot about this kind of thing, and

> although I've tried to research the different aspects of this problem

> separately, the fact that what I'm trying to do is a little convoluted

> isn't helping.

>

> OK, I've searched this group as well as I can, but apologies if this

> has been answered before.

>

> I'll check this group as often as I can (twice a week at least) and

> give extra details/clarification as they're needed.

>

> Thanking you in advance,

>

> Wawrzyniec.

 

 

Heck, I'd just format the faster drive

then clone the system drive to it.

 

xxcopy /clone should do the trick

 

http://www.xxcopy.com/index.htm

 

 

It should save a ton of time

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format

 

Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com wrote:

> It's been a very long time since I've been on Usenet, so please

> forgive any netiquette faux pas...

 

Your netiquette will show once you start replying. Poor netiquette is

when you top-post, or when you include the entire post that you're

replying to instead of editing it to include only the specific content

you're replying to.

 

All of the 3 replies so far have shown poor netiquette.

 

Observe how I am constructing this reply as an example of good

netiquette.

> It's P200MMX with two HDs.

> I'd like to format both drives, click the newer faster one onto

> 'master' and install windows (98) onto it in full (i.e. a normal

> install, with system files and the program on the this one drive).

 

If both drives are as old as your motherboard and CPU (ie circa 2000

or older) then you are advised to NOT keep using them. Your drives

have reached the end of their useful life and will most likely fail

within the next year. They probably have developed many bad sectors,

and are probably very noisy (ie they probably emit a very noticable

high-pitched tone that can affect your hearing over time - but that's

probably already happened by now).

 

Go out and purchase a new hard drive. Even if it's a 40 gb drive, you

can partition and format it as a 32 gb drive (your motherboard

probably isin't compatible with a drive larger than 32 gb).

> OK, I've searched this group as well as I can, but apologies if

> this has been answered before.

 

Everybody that wants to alter the configuration of their old systems

is in a slightly different situation, but it always boils down to a

desire to re-use old hard drives, without considering that the hard

drive is the one system component that can be replaced, and that it

makes sense to replace it because they will fail, and replacing them

can be very inexpensive.

Guest Don Phillipson
Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format

 

 

<Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:96db6602-fff1-4664-a480-fb0daee6c3ef@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

> I'd like to format both drives, click the newer faster one onto

> 'master' and install windows (98) onto it in full (i.e. a normal

> install, with system files and the program on the this one drive). I'd

> like to switch the older and slower HD to slave and leave it as just

> an internal backup, as storage only.

>

> So my question is, what should I do, and I guess at least as

> importantly, in what order should I do it?

 

1: Data: we assume you need save nothing, i.e. no

data from the old drives including ProductKey or

ProductID (numbers you must input during installation,

described in #3.)

 

1b. Test your boot floppy beforehand, i.e. boot from

the floppy and verify that it enables the CD drive(s)

under MS-DOS (required to instal Win98.) If in doubt,

download the correct boot floppy from http://www.bootdisk.com.

This sends you a single EXE file which you execute to

write the bootup files to a new blank formatted floppy.

This may lack one or two convenient utilities e.g.

CHKDSK or EDIT which you can add to the floppy.

 

2: Hardware. It does not matter how the two hard

drives are connected (master/slave settings) so long as

the OS finds only one Primary DOS partition (which will

be your C: drive.) This is done via FDISK on your booting

floppy i.e.

-- Load FDISK and identify which of your two HDDs is the

fast one. (Rename unambiguously if needed.)

-- Load the fast HDD and remove all partitions (drives).

-- Create one Primary DOS partition which will be your

C: drive, of appropriate size (2 Gb to 10 Gb depending

on drive space available and how you plan to instal.)

-- Make one Extended DOS partition using up the

rest of the drive space. You can make two or more

logical drives in this Ext DOS partition if you prefer.

(E.g. your Windows swap file (extended memory)

should be on the faster HDD, but not in drive C: if

there is any risk of C: filling up with data.)

-- Load the slow HDD, remove all partitions, make

all the drive space a single Ext DOS partition, and

make 2 or more logical drives within it if you prefer.

-- Reboot to execute all these changes to the

hard drives.

-- Each logical drive must be FORMATted before

you can write data to it or instal the OS.

 

3: Operating System installation: read first reliable

instructions at

http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html

 

--

Don Phillipson

Carlsbad Springs

(Ottawa, Canada)

Guest Don Phillipson
Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format

 

"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:475952DB.5AFA7FB4@Guy.com...

> > It's P200MMX with two HDs.

> > I'd like to format both drives, click the newer faster one onto

> > 'master' and install windows (98) onto it in full (i.e. a normal

> > install, with system files and the program on the this one drive).

>

> If both drives are as old as your motherboard and CPU (ie circa 2000

> or older) then you are advised to NOT keep using them. Your drives

> have reached the end of their useful life and will most likely fail

> within the next year. They probably have developed many bad sectors,

 

The OP need not take this at face value. We have no reason to

suppose drives that have not yet generated a single bad sector

" probably have developed many bad sectors" and we need

not guess. Reputable HDD manufacturers distribute free on

their web sites diagnostic apps that will reliably indicate whether

a drive is suitable for further use.

> Go out and purchase a new hard drive. Even if it's a 40 gb drive, you

> can partition and format it as a 32 gb drive (your motherboard

> probably isin't compatible with a drive larger than 32 gb).

 

Users with slower CPUs are better advised to divide drive

space into several logical drives (e.g. max 10 Gb each),

planning ahead where various types of data will be stored, e.g.

C: drive 2 Gb for Windows only

D: drive 10 Gb for /Program Files

E: drive 10 Gb for /My Documents and all other data written

by apps in D: (e.g. income tax, family photos etc.)

F: drive for the Windows swap file (Extended Memory) and

for periodical backup (e.g. XXCOPY clone of drive C:,

e.g. cumulative backup of new or changed data from E:)

 

Archives of this NG include occasional discussion

along these lines.

 

--

Don Phillipson

Carlsbad Springs

(Ottawa, Canada)

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Supposed Netiquette is a term spouted by parties who are ignorant of how

the Internet works and how information is collected by the search engines.

The only place it still applies are chat groups, or discussions which

contain no technical materials which needs referenced.

 

You generally find these statements by parties who love to talk theory;

or attempt ot place themselves above others by pointing to supposed

netiquette breach;

or spend large amounts of time posting in dozens of News Groups and forums

and wish to decrease their download times and increase rapid reading of

posts;

or of course the most obvious, those who do frequently chat [basically

worthless material] and that's what they carry with them as the belief of

how other discussions should be handled... when in reality, search engines

don't care about this figment of old forum ideals, they find and place

information based upon the actual materials contained within the individual

pages [that's each posting for groups such as this] found.

Remove that needed data, and what might have been a viable search results,

turns into a "gotta read the entire thread to understand" worthless rambling

in some thread which receives no attention, and fails to achieve the results

because the title provides the same basic information that hundreds of

thousands of other like discussions also contain. It might provide help for

one individual or a single discussion, whereas, had the data been retained,

it might have help thousands of others.

 

There are also those who foster this fallacy so they can post numerous

references to their own prior postings as if they are the premier authority

[you are locallized to their presentations rather than where that material

came from].

 

That is not stating one should not clip data in technical or informational

discussions which is not being addressed or has already been answered if

that is no longer being discussed, unless it is relevant to the continued

discussion.

 

As for where one posts, that depends upon what is presented. Such as this

is a deliberate top post but keeps the thread below it for posterity and

reference of why it was posted.

 

Note the below reference to netiquette and some other inadequately prepared

advise contained below which is a standard "consumerism" response. Re-use

your hard drives if possible, but backup, and prepare for future failures.

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

 

 

"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:475952DB.5AFA7FB4@Guy.com...

| Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com wrote:

|

| > It's been a very long time since I've been on Usenet, so please

| > forgive any netiquette faux pas...

|

| Your netiquette will show once you start replying. Poor netiquette is

| when you top-post, or when you include the entire post that you're

| replying to instead of editing it to include only the specific content

| you're replying to.

|

| All of the 3 replies so far have shown poor netiquette.

|

| Observe how I am constructing this reply as an example of good

| netiquette.

|

| > It's P200MMX with two HDs.

| > I'd like to format both drives, click the newer faster one onto

| > 'master' and install windows (98) onto it in full (i.e. a normal

| > install, with system files and the program on the this one drive).

|

| If both drives are as old as your motherboard and CPU (ie circa 2000

| or older) then you are advised to NOT keep using them. Your drives

| have reached the end of their useful life and will most likely fail

| within the next year. They probably have developed many bad sectors,

| and are probably very noisy (ie they probably emit a very noticable

| high-pitched tone that can affect your hearing over time - but that's

| probably already happened by now).

|

| Go out and purchase a new hard drive. Even if it's a 40 gb drive, you

| can partition and format it as a 32 gb drive (your motherboard

| probably isin't compatible with a drive larger than 32 gb).

|

| > OK, I've searched this group as well as I can, but apologies if

| > this has been answered before.

|

| Everybody that wants to alter the configuration of their old systems

| is in a slightly different situation, but it always boils down to a

| desire to re-use old hard drives, without considering that the hard

| drive is the one system component that can be replaced, and that it

| makes sense to replace it because they will fail, and replacing them

| can be very inexpensive.

Guest Gary S. Terhune
Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format

 

You don't want to do anything to the "old" drive except move it to the Slave

position on the IDE cable, change the jumper(s), etc. WHEN you need to start

up the old system, you'll have to switch it back to being the Master. Or,

you can use a third-party boot manager. Also, I'd leave this drive

disconnected until you've finished reinstalling Windows to the new drive.

Prevents possibly confusing issues.

 

You said the newer drive already has Windows installed. Is that correct? If

so, then I'm confused. If not, then once you've moved that drive to being

the Master, you treat it like any other drive and clean install Windows.

Lots of ways to do that, including the way I described to another person a

couple of days ago (subject: "Install Win98 SE".)

 

But MAINLY, before you do ANYTHING, you want to make sure that any files you

want to save are on the old drive, since it's the one you aren't going to

wipe.

 

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://www.grystmill.com

 

<Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:96db6602-fff1-4664-a480-fb0daee6c3ef@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

> Hello everyone,

>

> It's been a very long time since I've been on Usenet, so please

> forgive any netiquette faux pas...

>

> I have what might be a bit of a tricky format of a Win98 machine...

>

> It's P200MMX with two HDs. The master drive is the older and slower of

> the two, and contains the system files; the slave is the newer and

> faster, and has windows installed on it.

>

> I'd like to format both drives, click the newer faster one onto

> 'master' and install windows (98) onto it in full (i.e. a normal

> install, with system files and the program on the this one drive). I'd

> like to switch the older and slower HD to slave and leave it as just

> an internal backup, as storage only.

>

> So my question is, what should I do, and I guess at least as

> importantly, in what order should I do it? I'm worried about

> formatting the wrong drive first, and then being 'stuck' without

> control of the machine to finish the format/reinstall.

>

> As you can see I really don't know a lot about this kind of thing, and

> although I've tried to research the different aspects of this problem

> separately, the fact that what I'm trying to do is a little convoluted

> isn't helping.

>

> OK, I've searched this group as well as I can, but apologies if this

> has been answered before.

>

> I'll check this group as often as I can (twice a week at least) and

> give extra details/clarification as they're needed.

>

> Thanking you in advance,

>

> Wawrzyniec.

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format

 

Don Phillipson wrote:

> > > It's P200MMX with two HDs.

> >

> > If both drives are as old as your motherboard and CPU (ie circa

> > 2000 or older) then you are advised to NOT keep using them.

> > Your drives have reached the end of their useful life and will

> > most likely fail within the next year.

> > They probably have developed many bad sectors,

>

> The OP need not take this at face value.

 

Don and the OP are advised to do a little research of their own and

discover the average and typical lifespans of hard drives of various

vintages.

> We have no reason to suppose drives that have not yet generated

> a single bad sector

 

The odds of such a supposition are against you.

> Reputable HDD manufacturers distribute free on their web sites

> diagnostic apps that will reliably indicate whether

> a drive is suitable for further use.

 

I don't dispute that, and I look forward to the OP performing such a

test and posting the results back here. It not even necessary to use

manufacturer-specific software for that purpose.

 

I stand by my generic advice, which is that the OP obtain a new (or

reasonably new) 20 or 40 gb drive, install 98 on it, and copy personal

files from his ancient drives onto the new drive, and put the old

drives in a shoe box in the closet.

> Users with slower CPUs are better advised to divide drive

> space into several logical drives (e.g. max 10 Gb each),

 

I find such a strategy to be quaint - reminiscent of the pre-windows

era where the creation of many logical drives had some utility.

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Full-quoter MEB wrote:

> Supposed Netiquette is a term spouted by parties who are ignorant

> of how the Internet works

 

Tell us how the Internet works Meb.

> and how information is collected by the search engines.

 

Ah, we're back to the old argument are we? That we musn't edit posts

to make them more readable for the purpose and audience at hand - that

instead we must preserve and full-quote entire threads for the sake of

posterity.

 

No matter that search engines (google groups being perhaps the only

one) doesn't show quoted material by default.

> The only place it still applies are chat groups, or discussions

> which contain no technical materials which needs referenced.

 

Usenet threads can be read in full on google. So why must every post

contain an entire capsule of the thread up to that point?

 

(rest of mindless and pointless drivel deleted)

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Yeah, so you're back to the same dimwitted display of your intellect as

always... want to post in USENET, good go there and post... don't let the

door hit you in the butt on the way out..

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

 

 

"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4759ED09.48867927@Guy.com...

| Full-quoter MEB wrote:

|

| > Supposed Netiquette is a term spouted by parties who are ignorant

| > of how the Internet works

|

| Tell us how the Internet works Meb.

|

| > and how information is collected by the search engines.

|

| Ah, we're back to the old argument are we? That we musn't edit posts

| to make them more readable for the purpose and audience at hand - that

| instead we must preserve and full-quote entire threads for the sake of

| posterity.

|

| No matter that search engines (google groups being perhaps the only

| one) doesn't show quoted material by default.

|

| > The only place it still applies are chat groups, or discussions

| > which contain no technical materials which needs referenced.

|

| Usenet threads can be read in full on google. So why must every post

| contain an entire capsule of the thread up to that point?

|

| (rest of mindless and pointless drivel deleted)

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

More absolute brilliance by 98 Guy, once again show the sheer depth of, ah,

how vacant a mind can be...

 

Let's see Google shares run around $714.00 [12-07-07] per, because Google

knows how much that in formation and data means...

 

Google FULLY shows ALL the message because that's one of the things that

cause people to use the service... please point out and post the link to ANY

USENET group or service which has garnered the same market share that Google

has related to USENET viewing and USENET search results THAT DID NOT COME

THROUGH GOOGLE ...

 

While you're at it post any USENET service which has the same or more users

compared to Google Groups, which is NOT available ON or through Google

Groups which posts those full messages. Then explain why YOU think people

searching through this group should be REQUIRED to read ENTIRE THREADS to

find the information they seek.

 

Now fully explain to the world why the heck you think why what you or any

other USENET user spouting about Netiquette, means squat on this "help

forum" or on Google, and why YOUR advise pursuant thereto should be followed

in THIS forum or on Google.. do tell... I'm rather sure NO ONE on this

planet is interested ...

 

BTW: I quoted NONE of your garbage [this, once again, displays how willing

you are to falsely state material fact in a vain attempt at some

recognition] in either of these posts, so all those wonderful USENET groups

who echo this, won't show ANYTHING you posted [per your statement] [note the

lines above the sig, guess what that does out in USENET land and some News

Readers, duh] BUT Google will hold the material for posterity. So contrary

to your previous ignorant posting, top posting IS good netiqutte,

particularly if the previous post held nothing of value.

 

SO again, 98 Guy, do try to spend some time finding out what the real world

is all about... that dream world of yours seems to be transparent in the

light...

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

 

 

"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4759ED09.48867927@Guy.com...

| Full-quoter MEB wrote:

|

| > Supposed Netiquette is a term spouted by parties who are ignorant

| > of how the Internet works

|

| Tell us how the Internet works Meb.

|

| > and how information is collected by the search engines.

|

| Ah, we're back to the old argument are we? That we musn't edit posts

| to make them more readable for the purpose and audience at hand - that

| instead we must preserve and full-quote entire threads for the sake of

| posterity.

|

| No matter that search engines (google groups being perhaps the only

| one) doesn't show quoted material by default.

|

| > The only place it still applies are chat groups, or discussions

| > which contain no technical materials which needs referenced.

|

| Usenet threads can be read in full on google. So why must every post

| contain an entire capsule of the thread up to that point?

|

| (rest of mindless and pointless drivel deleted)

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Full-quoter MEB wrote:

> ... want to post in USENET, good go there and post...

 

You realize that you too are posting to USENET - or don't you?

> don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out..

 

The door broke when it hit your ass, but I guess you didn't feel it.

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

 

TSK,TSK,, shame on you.

Apparently you REALLY don't know how this forum and the USENET works... {I

apologize to Microsoft for using their server this one time for this

purpose.}

I created two posts... one specifically for USENET, and one for THIS server

and forum [echoed on USENET]... what you posted DID NOT appear IN THIS FORUM

[this server] due to its filter policy... you really need to clean up your

language and remember THIS is a forum that might be used by children.

Though judging by your mental capabilities: do your parents know what you

are posting out here, and are they aware of your mental instability; and/or,

do the people in that mental institution know; or is it parens patriae or

guardian ad litem or some other custodial responsibilities in play,

regardless, perhaps your medications need modified ...

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

MEB wrote:

> Apparently you REALLY don't know how this forum and the USENET

> works...

 

And as usual, you won't stick your neck out and explain it, for fear

of being wrong (which you are in this case).

> {I apologize to Microsoft for using their server this one time

> for this purpose.}

 

Owe Gaud. A nice, fake attempt at self deprecation.

> I created two posts... one specifically for USENET, and one for

> THIS server and forum [echoed on USENET]...

 

Why do you insist on some sort of artificial distinction?

 

MS carries the group, allows posting to it, and accepts posts

propagated to it.

 

Then it censors the **** out of it for local consumption.

> Sorry, what you posted DID NOT appear IN THIS FORUM

> [this server] due to its filter policy...

 

Would you mind being more specific? Which post of mine?

 

And if it was removed, how do you know? Do you read news using 2

different servers? If so - why?

> you really need to clean up your language and remember THIS

> is a forum that might be used by children.

 

And you're setting a good example with your constant insults and

put-downs?

 

If my posts frustrate you, you could explain why. Instead you resort

to juvenile mouthy insults.

> Though judging by your mental capabilities:

 

Like that.

> are they aware of your mental instability;

 

and that.

> do the people in that mental institution know;

 

You just don't stop.

> perhaps your medications need modified ...

 

I think many people here know you are a usenet troll MEB.

 

You never cease at providing examples. Your next post will no doubt

contain more.

 

Should I tell Microsoft that you are using their server to post

harassing messages to or about other users?

 

Message-ID: <O35cb4cOIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>

NNTP-Posting-Host: AC88B121.ipt.aol.com 172.136.177.33

Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl

Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:10:35 -0500

 

Do you think AOL will shield you from identification should Microsoft

want to prosecute you for such use of their server?

> {I apologize to Microsoft for using their server this one

> time for this purpose.}

 

I don't think such an admission would work Maurice Brahier. I'm going

to bring this and other such posts to Microsoft's notice as an example

of how you are violating the terms of service of their server, and the

potential civil or criminal illegality of the content of your posts

and how it makes Microsoft a party to them.

 

Why don't you tell us what the laws are in Ohio when it comes to

defamation, harassment, torment, slander and libel?

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

If you feel that is necessary, make your case, that will bring attention to

your posts in which you admit to criminal activities. I will, however,

apprise you that is not in your best interest.

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

 

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:OaTj77UOIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> Yeah, so you're back to the same dimwitted display of your intellect as

> always... want to post in USENET, good go there and post... don't let

> the

> door hit you in the butt on the way out..

<snip>

 

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:O35cb4cOIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

<snip>

> I created two posts... one specifically for USENET, and one for THIS

> server

> and forum [echoed on USENET]... what you posted DID NOT appear IN THIS

> FORUM

> [this server] due to its filter policy... you really need to clean up

> your

> language and remember THIS is a forum that might be used by children.

> Though judging by your mental capabilities: do your parents know what

> you

> are posting out here, and are they aware of your mental instability;

> and/or,

> do the people in that mental institution know; or is it parens patriae

> or

> guardian ad litem or some other custodial responsibilities in play,

> regardless, perhaps your medications need modified ...

 

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:e$2bnqVOIHA.2268@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

<snip>

> SO again, 98 Guy, do try to spend some time finding out what the real

> world

> is all about... that dream world of yours seems to be transparent in the

> light...

 

It would appear, that you have posted on Usenet, despite your assertion

that Microsoft Public news groups are not part of it. Any ISP News Server

can carry Microsoft *public* groups, but they usually only add them, when

customers request them. If you don't want to post to Usenet, then stop

posting, as per your petty response to 98 Guy.

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Maurice Brahier wrote:

> If you feel that is necessary, make your case, that will bring

> attention to your posts in which you admit to criminal activities.

> I will, however, apprise you that is not in your best interest.

 

Is there any particular reason you broke with your usual habbit and

did not fully quote my post in your reply?

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

WHHHOOOOOOSSSSSSHHHHH, right over your head, I see that demonstration was

lost upon you as well.. to bad...

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

 

 

"Sunny" <wombathouse@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

news:eQ3KBtgOIHA.5264@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

|

| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

| news:OaTj77UOIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

| > Yeah, so you're back to the same dimwitted display of your intellect as

| > always... want to post in USENET, good go there and post... don't let

| > the

| > door hit you in the butt on the way out..

| <snip>

|

| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

| news:O35cb4cOIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

| <snip>

| > I created two posts... one specifically for USENET, and one for THIS

| > server

| > and forum [echoed on USENET]... what you posted DID NOT appear IN THIS

| > FORUM

| > [this server] due to its filter policy... you really need to clean up

| > your

| > language and remember THIS is a forum that might be used by children.

| > Though judging by your mental capabilities: do your parents know what

| > you

| > are posting out here, and are they aware of your mental instability;

| > and/or,

| > do the people in that mental institution know; or is it parens patriae

| > or

| > guardian ad litem or some other custodial responsibilities in play,

| > regardless, perhaps your medications need modified ...

|

| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

| news:e$2bnqVOIHA.2268@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| <snip>

| > SO again, 98 Guy, do try to spend some time finding out what the real

| > world

| > is all about... that dream world of yours seems to be transparent in the

| > light...

|

| It would appear, that you have posted on Usenet, despite your assertion

| that Microsoft Public news groups are not part of it. Any ISP News Server

| can carry Microsoft *public* groups, but they usually only add them, when

| customers request them. If you don't want to post to Usenet, then stop

| posting, as per your petty response to 98 Guy.

|

|

|

|

|

|

|

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

 

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:uGOxsAhOIHA.5140@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> WHHHOOOOOOSSSSSSHHHHH, right over your head, I see that demonstration

> was

> lost upon you as well.. to bad...

<snip>

 

Must admit I still have difficulty with your :

"I created two posts... one specifically for USENET, and one for THIS

server"

 

All posts to Microsoft.public news groups are available on Usenet, so how

is it possible for you to "create" a post that won't appear?

 

(It does not matter if the subscriber is using their ISP news server, or

the Microsoft server to read posts)

The whole World is not contained within the USA.

Guest Deus0Factus0Sum@gmail.com
Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

I could hardly believe the 21 replies waiting for me when I signed in

just now... thank you, all of you.

 

I have only a moment to reply, so I'll make this quick for now, and

write properly tomorrow or the next day (indeed, I hope to finish this

format/reinstall within the next two or three days).

 

I'll only add to what has been said that I've run Norton Disk Doctor

on both drives (within the last 6months, so I'll do so again ASAP) and

it found no bad sectors on the newer drive, and I *think* none on the

older. I'll keep what you've said in mind, 98 Guy, and I appreciate

your comments, however I will probably keep both drives as long as

they continue to come up clean on surface tests etc. The reason I'm

not too worried about doing this (although I can't deny being loath to

throw away components that still work, and are apparently reliable)

leads to the second thing i wanted to add-

 

I'm going to be using this computer purely for word-processing and

printing. The master drive will be nearly empty, and the slave will

only be used to back-up files. If I can find good (free) antivirus

software for win98, then I'll reinstall a dial-up modem as well and

use this machine to browse academic, text-heavy and graphics-lite

sites. (I can see there is a lot on win98-supported antivirus software

on usenet, so I'll research that when I have the time).

 

OK, thank you once again,

 

W.

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

 

 

"Sunny" <wombathouse@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

news:%23afo0uiOIHA.3556@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

|

| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

| news:uGOxsAhOIHA.5140@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

| > WHHHOOOOOOSSSSSSHHHHH, right over your head, I see that demonstration

| > was

| > lost upon you as well.. to bad...

| <snip>

|

| Must admit I still have difficulty with your :

| "I created two posts... one specifically for USENET, and one for THIS

| server"

|

| All posts to Microsoft.public news groups are available on Usenet, so how

| is it possible for you to "create" a post that won't appear?

|

| (It does not matter if the subscriber is using their ISP news server, or

| the Microsoft server to read posts)

| The whole World is not contained within the USA.

|

 

Okay, that poses a reasonable question so I'll answer.

 

Both of those posts were posted UPON and through Microsoft's [actually the

main host's server since Microsoft off-loaded much of its services to other

servers under contract, though it may be back within Microsoft] server and

forum, that's *HERE*, where I post, I do NOT post on or through USENET.

 

This server, as you noted, is a *SEPARATE AND DISTINCT ENTITY* from USENET,

and is no part of it. Not uniquely, even though your original post noted the

differences, there was a break down between the understanding.

 

Microsoft could have setup this service requiring parties who wish to post

through it or to it, in the same form as Google and other services, ISPs and

other, which REQUIRES one to have an account, however, Microsoft chose to

provide this server and service to the public and for their use, and

provided several ways to post in it, the web interface, newsreaders, USENET,

and directly.

Such is not done without constraint, Microsoft has instituted filters, and

does modify them from time to time to hopefully ensure that inappropriate

content does not appear. However, it remains MICROSOFT'S forum, not ANY

other service or other that ECHOES IT. Any posts coming from external

sources ARE filtered, the same as local postings are.

 

Yes, you can QOUTE material from OUTSIDE sources which might make it

through the filters, as you have shown, though the filter rules try to

ensure these things don't happen. Note I used a mild term to use as the BAIT

within that post should it be placed here from an external source, hopefully

it is so benign that even children or their parents are not offended

[perhaps even causing a good laugh].

 

Occasionally those changes cause havoc when some modification blocks

material which does not need blocked. We occasionally have discussions HERE

[this forum] concerning blocked posts and those modifications, or these are

noted [generally without extensive comment] when someone complains they had

to post several times for the item to appear [though that also happens when

other server maintenance is done].

 

However, USENET, actually hundreds/thousands of INDIVIDUAL servers and

services and other, loosely referred to as USENET, Google, and other News

Services [generally private services] automatically pull FROM this

server/host, and generally each individual service *WITH THEIR OWN DISTINCT

POSTING RULES*. Don't miss that, there are thousands of *supposed Netiquette

rules* across the planet.

They may contain postings which will NEVER appear here upon Microsoft's

server, the MASTER HOST, the controller of the forum.

This master forum occasionally receives a *RE: {something}* which never

appeared here [the master host] in the first place, which sometimes causes

someone to respond with a *huh, what are you talking about*, because those

that receive this forum directly do NOT receive the USENET drivel, UNLESS it

passes the master host's filters.

 

 

The demonstration, if you followed the posts, was produced to show this

distinction, and to show how ignorant 98 Guy was concerning these aspects

[as I posted]. The specifically created USENET post [actually just a regular

post here on the master host] contained material which would NOT be posted d

irectly within forum [it flicked in but was removed even before *I* could

download it] though it was submitted through and upon THIS master

server/host, but WOULD be pulled from the server automatically [before

filtering] by those services which monitor postings here, which is generally

referred to as USENET.

You posted the entire *BAIT POST*, which I knew 98 Guy could not resist

responding to, due to the apparent intense need for ego building, but does

not appear here on the master host, at least not until you and 98 Guy posted

it..

 

Look carefully at those responses,,,, not only does 98 Guy fail to grasp

the issues, but posts absolutely ignorant threats, this is typical of the

discussions with this party.

 

Look at the material carefully [the message headers]... look at the content

of the thread and the postings related, and it should have been rather

obvious what it was, and what it proofed.

 

Not only should this have demonstrated [and it does] the DISTINCT

differences, but it also responded to the other completely ignorant postings

98 Guy had placed within this forum. Moreover, the continued postings by 98

Guy exposed the EXACT apparent indications of which I had placed. Once again

this entity COMPLETELY fails to grasp the reality of the world and how all

this on the Internet works EVEN WHEN DEMONSTRATED by the very person HE

CLAIMS doesn't understand ...

 

This should be enough to explain it, but if more is required, perhaps

others can respond as I have lost interest [unless 98 Guy puts more dumb

stuff here, though I may just ignore it], I have achieved what I set out to

do...

 

BTW: no one has responded to those unanswered questions I posted to expose

other segments of this post on Netiquette fallacies. Any *takers* out there?

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

 

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:uTlkk1pOIHA.3556@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> "Sunny" <wombathouse@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

> news:%23afo0uiOIHA.3556@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

<snip>

> | Must admit I still have difficulty with your :

> | "I created two posts... one specifically for USENET, and one for THIS

> | server"

<snip>

> Okay, that poses a reasonable question so I'll answer.

>

> Both of those posts were posted UPON and through Microsoft's [actually

> the

> main host's server since Microsoft off-loaded much of its services to

> other

> servers under contract, though it may be back within Microsoft] server

> and

> forum, that's *HERE*, where I post, I do NOT post on or through USENET.

>

> This server, as you noted, is a *SEPARATE AND DISTINCT ENTITY* from

> USENET,

> and is no part of it. Not uniquely, even though your original post noted

> the

> differences, there was a break down between the understanding.

<snip>

Thank you for your verbose reply, however,

"Microsoft has created the Microsoft.public newsgroup hierarchy and made

it available to anyone on the Usenet"

http://www.microsoft.com/communities/guide/newsgroupfaq.mspx

 

I have for years subscribed to Microsoft servers (Including one requiring

a password access) and the fact that they have "filters" in place does not

remove them from Usenet.

ISPs around the World do not "Echo" Microsoft public news group postings,

they simply download any of the available groups that they require.

 

Any ISP, who chooses to make their NNTP server available to non paying

customers, is in effect part of Usenet.

 

It doesn't matter if anyone posts direct to the Microsoft "public" server

using AOL or any other World wide ISP, they are in effect posting to

Usenet.

Posted

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

Re: Tricky Win98 Format - Netiquette falicies

 

 

 

"Sunny" <wombathouse@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

news:ee1Cs4rOIHA.292@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

|

| "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

| news:uTlkk1pOIHA.3556@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

| > "Sunny" <wombathouse@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

| > news:%23afo0uiOIHA.3556@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

| <snip>

| > | Must admit I still have difficulty with your :

| > | "I created two posts... one specifically for USENET, and one for THIS

| > | server"

| <snip>

| > Okay, that poses a reasonable question so I'll answer.

| >

| > Both of those posts were posted UPON and through Microsoft's [actually

| > the

| > main host's server since Microsoft off-loaded much of its services to

| > other

| > servers under contract, though it may be back within Microsoft] server

| > and

| > forum, that's *HERE*, where I post, I do NOT post on or through USENET.

| >

| > This server, as you noted, is a *SEPARATE AND DISTINCT ENTITY* from

| > USENET,

| > and is no part of it. Not uniquely, even though your original post noted

| > the

| > differences, there was a break down between the understanding.

| <snip>

| Thank you for your verbose reply, however,

| "Microsoft has created the Microsoft.public newsgroup hierarchy and made

| it available to anyone on the Usenet"

| http://www.microsoft.com/communities/guide/newsgroupfaq.mspx

 

The key words are "Microsoft has created" and "made it available" think

carefully before you reply, I know its hard sometimes..

 

|

| I have for years subscribed to Microsoft servers (Including one requiring

| a password access) and the fact that they have "filters" in place does not

| remove them from Usenet.

| ISPs around the World do not "Echo" Microsoft public news group postings,

| they simply download any of the available groups that they require.

 

Did you really type that.. yep you did... so they MERELY download something

which they have no direct control over and which they do not and did not

create...

 

|

| Any ISP, who chooses to make their NNTP server available to non paying

| customers, is in effect part of Usenet.

|

| It doesn't matter if anyone posts direct to the Microsoft "public" server

| using AOL or any other World wide ISP, they are in effect posting to

| Usenet.

|

 

So why did you also choose to point out AOL, I do not post via AOL....

get it yet... and that is a rather ridiculous argument,, really think about

what you just typed to supposedly proof your issue, it holds no water

whatsoever...

 

I also have at times had some other access.. so what's the relevance to

THIS situation and discussion.

 

Anyway, I can see you will apparently never get the differences so should I

why bother ...

 

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

________

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