MI5-Persecution: MI5 are Afraid to Admit Theyre Behind the Persecution (26382)

[Guest MI5-Victim@mi5.gov.uk]

MI5 are Afraid to Admit They're Behind the Persecution

 

MI5 have issued a formal denial of any involvement in my life to the

Security Service Tribunal, as you might expect them to; but, more

importantly, the persecutors have never denied that theyre from the

Security Service, despite several years of accusations from my corner on

usenet and in faxed articles. I am not surprised that the Security Service

Tribunal found "no determination in your favour". I am however a little

surprised that the persecutors have refused to confirm my identification

of them; by doing so, they implicitly admit that my guess was right.

 

"No determination in your favour" says the Security Service Tribunal

 

In 1997, I made a complaint to the Security Service Tribunal, giving only

the bare outlines of my case. I do not think it would have made very much

difference if Id made a much more detailed complaint, since the Tribunal

has no ability to perform investigatory functions. It can only ask MI5 if

they have an interest in a subject, to which MI5 are of course free to be

"economical with the truth". A couple of months after my complaint the

Tribunal replied that;

 

The Security Service Tribunal have now investigated your complaint and

have asked me to inform you that no determination in your favour has been

made on your complaint.

 

Needless to say this reply didnt surprise me in the slightest. It is a

well established fact that the secret service are a den of liars and the

Tribunal a toothless watchdog, so to see them conforming to these

stereotypes might be disappointing but unsurprising.

 

It is noteworthy that the Tribunal never gives the plaintiff information

on whether the "no determination in your favour" is because MI5 claims to

have no interest in him, or whether they claim their interest is

"justified". In the 1997 report of the Security Service Commissioner he

writes that "The ambiguity of the terms in which the notification of the

Tribunals decision is expressed is intentional", since a less ambiguous

answer would indicate to the plaintiff whether he were indeed under MI5

surveillance. But I note that the ambiguity also allows MI5 to get away

with lying to the question of their interest in me; they can claim to the

Tribunal that they have no interest, but at a future date, when it becomes

clear that they did indeed place me under surveillance and harassment,

they can claim their interest was "justified" - and the Tribunal will

presumably not admit that in their previous reply MI5 claimed to have no

interest.

 

"He doesnt know who we are"

 

In early January 1996 I flew on a British Airways jet from London to

Montreal; also present on the plane, about three or four rows behind me,

were two young men, one of them fat and voluble, the other silent. It was

quite clear that these two had been planted on the aircraft to "wind me

up". The fat youth described the town in Poland where I had spent

Christmas, and made some unpleasant personal slurs against me. Most

interestingly, he said the words, "he doesnt know who we are".

 

Now I find this particular form of words very interesting, because while

it is not a clear admission, it is only a half-hearted attempt at denial

of my guess that "they" = "MI5". Had my guess been wrong, the fat youth

would surely have said so more clearly. What he was trying to do was to

half-deny something he knew to be true, and he was limited to making

statements which he knew to be not false; so he made a lukewarm denial

which on the face of it means nothing, but in fact acts as a confirmation

of my guess of who "they" are.

 

On one of the other occasions when I saw the persecutors in person, on the

BA flight to Toronto in June 1993, one of the group of four men said, "if

he tries to run away well find him". But the other three stayed totally

quiet and avoided eye contact. They did so to avoid being apprehended and

identified - since if they were identified, their employers would have

been revealed, and it would become known that it was the secret services

who were behind the persecution.

 

Why are MI5 So Afraid to admit their involvement?

 

If you think about it, what has been going on in Britain for the last nine

years is simply beyond belief. The British declare themselves to be

"decent" by definition, so when they engage in indecent activities such as

the persecution of a mentally ill person, their decency "because were

British" is still in the forefront of their minds, and a process of mental

doublethink kicks in, where their antisocial and indecent activities are

blamed on the victim "because its his fault were persecuting him", and

their self-regard and self-image of decency remains untarnished. As

remarked in another article some time ago, this process is basically the

same as a large number of Germans employed fifty years ago against Slavic

"untermenschen" and the Jewish "threat" - the Germans declared, "Germans

are known to be decent and the minorities are at fault for what we do to

them" - so they were able to retain the view of themselves as being

"decent".

 

Now suppose this entire episode had happened in some other country. The

British have a poor view of the French, so lets say it had all happened in

France. Suppose there was a Frenchman, of non-French extraction, who was

targeted by the French internal security apparatus, for the dubious

amusement of French television newscasters, and tortured for 9 years with

various sexual and other verbal abuse and taunts of "suicide". Suppose

this all came out into the open. Naturally, the French authorities would

try hard to place the blame on their victim - and in their own country,

through the same state-controlled media which the authorities employ as

instruments of torture, their view might prevail - but what on earth would

people overseas make of their actions? Where would their "decency" be

then?

 

This is why MI5 are so afraid to admit theyre behind the

persecution. Because if they did admit responsibility, then they would be

admitting that there was an action against me - and if the truth came out,

then the walls would come tumbling down. And if the persecutors were to

admit they were from MI5, then you can be sure I would report the

fact; and the persecutors support would fall away, among the mass media as

well as among the general public. When I started identifying MI5 as the

persecutors in 1995 and 1996 there was a sharp reduction in media

harassment, since people read my internet newsgroup posts and knew I was

telling the truth. The persecutors cannot deny my claim that theyre MI5,

because then I would report their denial and they would be seen as liars -

but they cannot admit it either, as that would puncture their campaign

against me. So they are forced to maintain a ridiculous silence on the

issue of their identity, in the face of vociferous accusations on internet

newsgroups and faxed articles.

 

Have MI5 lied to the Home Secretary?

 

In order for the Security Services to bug my home, they would either have

needed a warrant from the Home Secretary, or they might have instituted

the bugging without a warrant. Personally I think it is more likely that

they didnt apply for a warrant - I cannot see any Home Secretary giving

MI5 authority to bug a residence to allow television newscasters to

satisfy their rather voyeuristic needs vis-a-vis one of their

audience. But it is possible that the Security Service presented a warrant

in some form before a home secretary at some point in the last nine years,

for telephone tapping or surveillance of my residence, or interception of

postal service.

 

So the possibility presents itself that a Home Secretary might have signed

a warrant presented to him based on MI5 lies. Just as MI5 lie to the

Security Service Tribunal, so they might have lied to a Home Secretray

himself. MI5 and MI6 are naturally secretive services former home

secretary Roy Jenkins said, they have a "secretive atmosphere

.... secretive vis-a-vis the government as well as [enemies]". Jenkins

also said he "did not form a very high regard for how they discharged

their duties".

 

It was only a few years ago that MI5 was brought into any sot the

extraordinary thing is that British media organisations like the state-

and taxpayer-funded BBC take such an active part in the MI5-inspired

campaign of harassment. We have after all heard of MI5 trying to bribe

broadcast journalists; but surely there must be a substantial number who

are not bought or blackmailed by the Security Services, and who take part

in the "abuse by newscasters" of their own volition? The BBC is supposed

to be independent of the government of the day as well as the

Establishment in general. While perhaps it is childish to think that the

BBC is anything other than effectively state-controlled, the degree of

collusion between the BBC and the British Secret Police MI5 is something

you would not find in many countries. Individual tele-journalists in other

countries would have enough self-esteem not to allow themselves to be

controlled by their secret police - seemingly, BBC broadcasters like

Martyn Lewis and Nicholas Witchell have such a low opinion of their

employing organisation that they see no wrong in dragging the BBCs

no-longer-good name through yet more mud, at the mere request (whether

supported by financial or other inducements) of the British secret Police,

MI5.

 

And when challenged, these broadcasters LIE about their involvement, with

just as little shame as MI5 themselves. The BBCs Information dept have

said that;

 

"I can assure you that the BBC would never engage in any form of

surveillance activity such as you describe"

 

which is an out-and-out lie. Buerk and Lewis have themselves lied to their

colleagues in the BBCs Information department over the "newscaster

watching", but unsurprisingly they refuse to put these denials in

writing. Doubtless if the "newscaster watching" ever comes to light, Buerk

and Lewis will then continue to lie by lying about these denials. So much

for the "impartial" BBC, a nest of liars bought and paid for by the

Security Services!

 

It is obvious that the persecution is at the instigation of MI5 themselves

- they have read my post, and only they have the surveillance technology

and media/political access. Yet they have lied outright to the Security

Service Tribunal. Similarly, BBC newscasters Michael Buerk and Martyn

Lewis have lied to members of their own organisation. The continuing

harassment indicates they are all petrified of this business coming out

into the open. I will continue to do everything possible to ensure that

their wrongdoing is exposed.

 

26382

 

 

--

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[Guest Mike M]

Re: Nutcase alert

 

Re: Nutcase alert

 

Oh dear. It really does appear that the lunatics are now running the

asylum!

--

Mike M

[Guest webster72n]

Re: MI5-Persecution: MI5 are Afraid to Admit Theyre Behind the Persecution (26382)

 

What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

[Guest Heirloom]

Re: MI5-Persecution: MI5 are Afraid to Admit Theyre Behind the Persecution (26382)

 

I certainly hope the number in parentheses is not an indicator of volumes.

Doesn't MI5 have assassins?

Heirloom, old and where are the moderators when

we need them?

 

"webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:e9mG2VAQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

>

>

[Guest Joan Archer]

Re: MI5-Persecution: MI5 are Afraid to Admit Theyre Behind the Persecution (26382)

 

Who are you talking too Harry ?

Joan

 

"webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:e9mG2VAQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

>

>

[Guest Heather]

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

Himself?? G. only knows.

 

Btw.....I have seen this crap on every ng I am on, so obviously they let

the idjit out of the looney bin. Plus he put a hyphen in his "From"

address which bypassed my killfile.

 

We are SNOWED IN!! Bloody weather!!!!!!! Expecting a foot of snow

(have half that already) and ice pellets and strong winds. A gazillion

accidents on the major highways due to blowing snow and dumb drivers

with no snow tires, lol.

 

Had Elayne tried to fly in today, it would have been a no-go. Airport

is majorly shut down. Picked her up at supper time last night before

the storm got bad.

 

Cheers from snowy, blowy Brampton. (Figgs)

"Joan Archer" <archer_joan@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:OcN7XdAQIHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Who are you talking too Harry ?

> Joan

>

> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:e9mG2VAQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

>>

>>

[Guest Mike M]

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

> Picked her up at supper time last night before

> the storm got bad.

 

Good for you! Does that mean breakfast in bed for the rest of the month?

<vbg>

> We are SNOWED IN!! Bloody weather!!!!!!!

 

No snow around here but it's been pretty d$$n cold for the last few days.

Brrrr....

--

Mike

 

 

Heather <figgyd@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Himself?? G. only knows.

>

> Btw.....I have seen this crap on every ng I am on, so obviously they

> let the idjit out of the looney bin. Plus he put a hyphen in his

> "From" address which bypassed my killfile.

>

> We are SNOWED IN!! Bloody weather!!!!!!! Expecting a foot of snow

> (have half that already) and ice pellets and strong winds. A

> gazillion accidents on the major highways due to blowing snow and

> dumb drivers with no snow tires, lol.

>

> Had Elayne tried to fly in today, it would have been a no-go. Airport

> is majorly shut down. Picked her up at supper time last night before

> the storm got bad.

>

> Cheers from snowy, blowy Brampton. (Figgs)

[Guest Heather]

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

 

"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message

news:eBJDcKBQIHA.4584@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> Picked her up at supper time last night before

>> the storm got bad.

>

> Good for you! Does that mean breakfast in bed for the rest of the

> month? <vbg>

 

BWA HA HA!!!!! Fat chance of that, but I will tell her. She and Ron

just came in from digging our driveway out of a foot of heavy snow.

This will amuse her......and she will get her "Uncle Mikey". (snicker)

 

Figgs

>

>> We are SNOWED IN!! Bloody weather!!!!!!!

>

> No snow around here but it's been pretty d$$n cold for the last few

> days. Brrrr....

> --

> Mike

>

>

> Heather <figgyd@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>

>> Himself?? G. only knows.

>>

>> Btw.....I have seen this crap on every ng I am on, so obviously they

>> let the idjit out of the looney bin. Plus he put a hyphen in his

>> "From" address which bypassed my killfile.

>>

>> We are SNOWED IN!! Bloody weather!!!!!!! Expecting a foot of snow

>> (have half that already) and ice pellets and strong winds. A

>> gazillion accidents on the major highways due to blowing snow and

>> dumb drivers with no snow tires, lol.

>>

>> Had Elayne tried to fly in today, it would have been a no-go.

>> Airport

>> is majorly shut down. Picked her up at supper time last night before

>> the storm got bad.

>>

>> Cheers from snowy, blowy Brampton. (Figgs)

>

[Guest webster72n]

Re: MI5-Persecution: MI5 are Afraid to Admit Theyre Behind the Persecution (26382)

 

 

"Joan Archer" <archer_joan@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:OcN7XdAQIHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Whom are you talking to, Harry ?

 

Didn't think that needed any explanation, or did it???

Just in case, it was 'M15-Victim@mi5.gov.uk', whoever he/she is.

> Joan

>

> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:e9mG2VAQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> > What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

> >

> >

[Guest Heather]

Re: OT MI5-Persecution:

 

Re: OT MI5-Persecution:

 

Harry, he/she is a nutbar who regularly spams a gazillion newsgroups, so

you are not talking to anyone real. And if he answered, he would

probably think you are out to get him anyway.

 

In other words, you are talking to a *non-functioning person*. Or

non-existent.

 

 

"webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:uQyTsSCQIHA.5016@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>

> "Joan Archer" <archer_joan@nospam.com> wrote in message

> news:OcN7XdAQIHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Whom are you talking to, Harry ?

>

> Didn't think that needed any explanation, or did it???

> Just in case, it was 'M15-Victim@mi5.gov.uk', whoever he/she is.

>

>> Joan

>>

>> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:e9mG2VAQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> > What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

>> >

>> >

>

>

[Guest Mike M]

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

Heather <figgyd@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> BWA HA HA!!!!! Fat chance of that, but I will tell her.

 

Don't know why you put up with that. No breakfast in bed for you both

should mean Elayne gets to bed down in the shed/garage/car port. <g>

> She and Ron

> just came in from digging our driveway out of a foot of heavy snow.

> This will amuse her......and she will get her "Uncle Mikey". (snicker)

 

She'd better not!

 

Cheers,

--

Mike

[Guest Joan Archer]

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

Re: The Idiot......MI5-Persecution:

 

You can keep the snow over your side thank you very much <g>

Glad Elayne got there before it came in, and yes those posts have flared up

again, we did seem to have a rest from them for a while but he/she must be

feeling lonely <g>

Joan

 

"Heather" <figgyd@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

news:ezz6zFBQIHA.4276@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Himself?? G. only knows.

>

> Btw.....I have seen this crap on every ng I am on, so obviously they let

> the idjit out of the looney bin. Plus he put a hyphen in his "From"

> address which bypassed my killfile.

>

> We are SNOWED IN!! Bloody weather!!!!!!! Expecting a foot of snow (have

> half that already) and ice pellets and strong winds. A gazillion

> accidents on the major highways due to blowing snow and dumb drivers with

> no snow tires, lol.

>

> Had Elayne tried to fly in today, it would have been a no-go. Airport is

> majorly shut down. Picked her up at supper time last night before the

> storm got bad.

>

> Cheers from snowy, blowy Brampton. (Figgs)

> "Joan Archer" <archer_joan@nospam.com> wrote in message

> news:OcN7XdAQIHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Who are you talking too Harry ?

>> Joan

>>

>> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:e9mG2VAQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>> What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

>>>

>>>

>

>

[Guest webster72n]

Re: OT MI5-Persecution:

 

Re: OT MI5-Persecution:

 

 

He/she or 'nutbar', the Loom is right, the assassins ought to get into

action.

Just don't let it spoil your Christmas Spirit.

 

 

"Heather" <figgyd@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

news:%23O1mxjCQIHA.5184@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Harry, he/she is a nutbar who regularly spams a gazillion newsgroups, so

> you are not talking to anyone real. And if he answered, he would

> probably think you are out to get him anyway.

>

> In other words, you are talking to a *non-functioning person*. Or

> non-existent.

>

>

> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:uQyTsSCQIHA.5016@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> >

> > "Joan Archer" <archer_joan@nospam.com> wrote in message

> > news:OcN7XdAQIHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> >> Whom are you talking to, Harry ?

> >

> > Didn't think that needed any explanation, or did it???

> > Just in case, it was 'M15-Victim@mi5.gov.uk', whoever he/she is.

> >

> >> Joan

> >>

> >> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

> >> news:e9mG2VAQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> >> > What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

> >> >

> >> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest richard]

Re: OT MI5-Persecution:

 

Re: OT MI5-Persecution:

 

webster72n wrote:

> He/she or 'nutbar', the Loom is right, the assassins ought to get into

> action.

> Just don't let it spoil your Christmas Spirit.

>

>

> "Heather" <figgyd@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

> news:%23O1mxjCQIHA.5184@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Harry, he/she is a nutbar who regularly spams a gazillion newsgroups, so

>> you are not talking to anyone real. And if he answered, he would

>> probably think you are out to get him anyway.

>>

>> In other words, you are talking to a *non-functioning person*. Or

>> non-existent.

>>

>>

>> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:uQyTsSCQIHA.5016@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>>> "Joan Archer" <archer_joan@nospam.com> wrote in message

>>> news:OcN7XdAQIHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>> Whom are you talking to, Harry ?

>>> Didn't think that needed any explanation, or did it???

>>> Just in case, it was 'M15-Victim@mi5.gov.uk', whoever he/she is.

>>>

>>>> Joan

>>>>

>>>> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:e9mG2VAQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>> What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

This person may hold the record for paranoid spams. If you google him,

you'll find his godawful history.

[Guest webster72n]

Re: OT MI5-Persecution:

 

Re: OT MI5-Persecution:

 

 

"richard" <rmk@wonderland.net> wrote in message

news:OnqU0wDQIHA.5400@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> webster72n wrote:

> > He/she or 'nutbar', the Loom is right, the assassins ought to get into

> > action.

> > Just don't let it spoil your Christmas Spirit.

> >

> >

> > "Heather" <figgyd@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

> > news:%23O1mxjCQIHA.5184@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> >> Harry, he/she is a nutbar who regularly spams a gazillion newsgroups,

so

> >> you are not talking to anyone real. And if he answered, he would

> >> probably think you are out to get him anyway.

> >>

> >> In other words, you are talking to a *non-functioning person*. Or

> >> non-existent.

> >>

> >>

> >> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

> >> news:uQyTsSCQIHA.5016@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> >>> "Joan Archer" <archer_joan@nospam.com> wrote in message

> >>> news:OcN7XdAQIHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> >>>> Whom are you talking to, Harry ?

> >>> Didn't think that needed any explanation, or did it???

> >>> Just in case, it was 'M15-Victim@mi5.gov.uk', whoever he/she is.

> >>>

> >>>> Joan

> >>>>

> >>>> "webster72n" <webster72n@gmail.com> wrote in message

> >>>> news:e9mG2VAQIHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> >>>>> What are you doing in this group anyway???!!!

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

> This person may hold the record for paranoid spams. If you google him,

 

Don't seem to have the slightest desire, richard.

> you'll find his godawful history.