New computer help

[shrimply]

Hi guys, great to see you back

 

And once again I need some advice. My laptop screen finally packed in so I need to get a new computer before uni starts but I'm completely broke. So I need to get a decent machine as cheap as possible.

 

The best solution I've come up with is to get this computer and moniter package from medion for £300. I can't link to it but here is all the info

 

PC:

 

• Genuine Microsoft® Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition
  
• Intel® Pentium® Dual Core Processor E2180
  
  • Processor speed 2.0GHz
    
  • 1MB L2 Cache with 800 MHz FSB
    

  [*] 2GB DDR2-SDRAM

  [*] 250GB Hard Disk

  • 7200rpm, Interface Serial ATA
    

  [*] Dual Layer DVD-ReWriter

  • Max: 10x DVD+R9 (DL), 10x DVD-R9 (DL), 20x DVD+R, 20x DVD-R, 8x DVD+RW, 6x DVD-RW, 48x CD-R, 32x CD-RW, 5x DVD-RAM
    

  [*] Intel® GMA 950 Graphics on board

  [*] Network Controller Ethernet LAN 10/100 Mbit/s

  [*] Integrated Memory Card Reader

  • reads from and writes too all standard memory cards**
    

  [*] 6 Channel Audio

  [*] PS/2 Keyboard and mouse

Monitor

 

• Maximum resolution 1440 x 900 px
  
• Visible Screen diagonal 48.2cm
  
• Viewing angle (CR>10) typ. horizontal 150 degrees/vertical 135 degrees
  
• Contrast typ.= 700:1
  
• Brightness typ = 300 cd/m2
  
• Response time typ = 8ms
  
• Two built in speakers
  
• OSD (On Screen Display)
  
• Integrated power supply (AC 100-240V ~ 50-60GHz)
  
• Cables included:
  
  • 1x power cord
    
  • 1x 15-pin sub-d connection cable
    
  • 1x audio cable
    

In my eyes this seems a decent machine and while not being extremely fast will do the job, other benefits include the fact that it is Vista home Premium and not Basic which most cheap packages have and the fact I will get the upgrade to Windows 7.

 

If I went with this I'd intend to spend another £50 on a decentish graphics card and possibly a ram upgrade depending on the motherboard etc which obviously I won't know until I get the computer.

 

Anyone got any opinions on this or any thoughts on anything better.

[snow]

I tried, I tried, and I tried to get this spec under your budget but I just can't bring myself to list a £5 'casecom' PSU for the fear of such stuff blowing up...

 

 

Mobo ASROCK G31M-S G31 Socket 775 VGA Out 6 Channel Audio MATX Motherboard - Ebuyer

£30.59

 

CPU Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 2.5GHz Socket 775 800FSB 2MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor - Ebuyer

£46.17

 

PSU Compucase Green Earth 350W 80plus Certified PSU - 20+4pin 2x SATA 1x PCI-E - Ebuyer

£26.89

 

Mem Crucial 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL6 Lifetime Warranty - Ebuyer

£35.99

 

HDD Seagate ST3500418AS 500GB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 16MB Cache - OEM - Ebuyer

£37.93

 

Case Asus TA-K12 Black Mid Tower Case - No PSU - Ebuyer

£21.99

 

DVD Sony AD-7240S 24x DVDRW DL & RAM Internal SATA Black Bare Drive - OEM - Ebuyer

£16.99

 

Fan Xilence Red Wing 80mm Quiet Fan - 3&4pin connection - Ebuyer

£2.94

 

Screen EXDISPLAY Samsung SM943SN 19" TFT Monitor 1360x768 15000:1 (dynamic) 250cd/m2 5ms VGA Black - Ebuyer

£81.98

 

Windows Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium - Licence and media - 1 PC - OEM - DVD - 64-bit - English - Ebuyer

£74.32

 

 

TOTAL:

£375.79

 

 

I know it's allot more expensive than what you asked for, but this will be a solid machine, and the components are vastly superior to the cheap stuff Medion had listed. This has double the RAM, and from a decent manufacturer. The Hard drive is also double the size, again from a good manufacturer. The monitor is far better than the one listed.

 

The only thing it doesn't have is a graphics card, but the Mobo has onboard, so you could upgrade that later.

 

The case and PSU will be infinitely better than theirs. The reason the Medion machine was listed so cheap is because they will literally bang in the cheapest PSU, cheapest Mobo, cheapest Case, and only list things like the CPU to catch your eye.

 

If it's too much I could try to shave off some £££'s, just say and I'll have a go.

[Jelly Bean]

Please do not buy Medion.

 

The amount of hardware failure both on there laptops and computers is disgusting.

 

Cheap and nasty.

 

The price of £300 gives it away already.

[Tootech]

I'd go along with Snow and JB.

 

Snow's machine is far superior, especially with an E5200 CPU. If price is an issue, drop the size of the hard drive to add a keyboard and mouse.

 

Course you would have to assemble it :D

 

PC World are doing a Compaq for similar money...

 

Compaq Presario CQ5011uk £399.99.

[shrimply]

Hi guys, well my bad, I'd heard good things about medion and although the particular machine only comes with a 12 month warranty all the ones sold through Aldi come with a 3 year warranty so I figured it couldn't be that bad.

 

OK so although the thought of building my own PC is one that excites me I so obviously have a few concerns. I hope you don't mind answering them.

 

Firstly after I've bought all the parts you listed what else do I need, if memory serves me rightly some sort of cooling glue ( yeah laugh away) and static wrist thingy. And cables, not sure if the hard drive etc comes with the cables it needs. How much will this add on to the price.

 

Secondly I'm terrified I blow something up, something that can't happen with a prebuilt machine but luckily if I get help here I will know that everything is compatible. But it does lead on to the question of things going wrong, obviously with a pre-built PC I get at least a years warrenty. I imagine its the same with each of the parts but how easy is claiming these sort of things.

 

Also I always worry that if I built my own little details would be missing, small things like built in card readers ( obviously can be added) and the headphone audio plug on the front over riding the speakers plugged into the back.

 

Ok and finally I regret to say the 64 and 32 bit confuses me. I understand that 64 bit can use more Ram but have always avoided it due to compatibility issues. So if you can ease my mind here then that'd be great.

 

I will definitely consider building my own but I have a challenge for you :p. I'd want to pay slightly extra to get the Windows 7 upgrade Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium w/SP1 - W/ Windows 7 Upgrade Offer Form - licence and media - 1 PC - OEM - DVD - 64-bit - English - Ebuyer at £87.22. If you can get me a graphics card and keep the total cost under £400 then I'm probably hooked. I've been told on here before that ATI graphics cards are better than nvidea but I think really it is down to personal choice.

 

I think I might be pushing it but thought I'd ask.

Edited August 24, 2009 by shrimply

[Jelly Bean]

We would never laugh,we all need to learn and will always still be learning.

 

Firstly after I've bought all the parts you listed what else do I need, if memory serves me rightly some sort of cooling glue ( yeah laugh away) and static wrist thingy. How much will this add on to the price.

 

Possibly,often GPU,s and CPU,s come with this already applied but not always.

 

So you would be better buying some Thermal Paste.

 

Secondly I'm terrified I blow something up, something that can't happen with a prebuilt machine but luckily if I get help here I will know that everything is compatible. But it does lead on to the question of things going wrong, obviously with a pre-built PC I get at least a years warrenty. I imagine its the same with each of the parts but how easy is claiming these sort of things.

 

We are all afraid we will messup belive me.

 

Some hardware such as RAM has a life time warrantee.

 

I would advise you read all instructions and visit the hardware manufacturers website for how to and help files.Most sites are pritty good.

 

If in doubt ask us guys and girl if your not sure we can help you every step of the way.

 

Also I always worry that if I built my own little details would be missing, small things like built in card readers ( obviously can be added) and the headphone audio plug on the front over riding the speakers plugged into the back.

 

Card readers can be added to most modern mainboards,it is usaly just one cable to be connected.

 

As for speakers this depends on your sound card and config,I know my sound card can have headset and speakers playing at the same time and can here both.Yes front jack can overide but not always.

 

 

Ok and finally I regret to say the 64 and 32 bit confuses me. I understand that 64 bit can use more Ram but have always avoided it due to compatibility issues. So if you can ease my mind here then that'd be great.

 

 

32 bit reconises 3.25 gig 64 bit reconises 4 gig and over on RAM.

 

As for software and driver compatability issues manufacturers have mostly caught up with 64 bit OS and there are many many programs that are compatable.

 

Vista can also run in compatability mode for older software.

 

It is a personal choice on graphics cards and also depends if you wish to setup SLi which is two NVIDIA cards or Crossfire which is two ATI cards.This setup is usaly what the higher end gamers like to use.But most modern graphics cards come with two ports so you can run dual monitors.

 

Ask any questions you like,we are here to help you.

[Jelly Bean]

Just an example:

 

AND:

 

Amazon.co.uk: Gigabyte GA MA790X-DS4 ATX Motherboard AMD Socket AM2: Electronics & Photo

 

Amazon.co.uk: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ AM2 Retail, 3.0GHz, 2 x 1MB L2 Cache, 2000MHz FSB: AMD: Electronics & Photo

 

Amazon.co.uk: OCZ StealthXStream 600 Watt Gamers Power Supply Unit - OCZ600SXS-UK: Electronics & Photo

 

Amazon.co.uk: OCZ PC2-6400 Dual Channel DDR2 800MHz 2GB RAM PC Memory Kit 4-4-4-15 - OCZ2P800R22GK: Electronics & Photo

 

Or

 

Amazon.co.uk: Corsair (TWIN2X2048-6400C4) 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2 6400 PC Memory non-ECC unbuffered 4-4-4-12 Black Heat Spreader EPP Technology - Lifetime Warranty: CORSAIR: Electronics & Photo

[shrimply]

Thanks,

How much will thermal paste cost and where would I get it from?

 

Been doing some searching and if I replaced the psu and case on the initial suggested build with this

 

EzCool N880 Black Mid Tower Case - with 500W PSU, Front Panel LED - Ebuyer £29.72

 

And added this graphics card

 

Sapphire HD 3650 512MB DDR2 Dual DVI TV Out PCI-E Graphics Card - Ebuyer £34.95

 

Then it would of come to £404.48

 

But I don't know how good those choices are, they could be total rubbish for all I know.

 

My other problem is Ebuyer seems to have completely sold out of decently priced monitors:(

[snow]

Ok, here we go:

 

Mobo P5KPL-AM IN/GB - Asus P5KPL-AM iG31, S775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 1066(OC)/667/800, SATA 3Gb/s, uATX, VGA - Scan.co.uk

£33.68

 

CPU BX80571E5200 - Intel Pentium Dual-Core, E5200, S 775, Wolfdale, 2.5 Ghz, 2MB Cache, 12.5x Core Ratio, 65W, Retail - Scan.co.uk

£46.12

 

PSU Compucase Green Earth 350W 80plus Certified PSU - 20+4pin 2x SATA 1x PCI-E - Ebuyer

£26.89

 

Mem 2GB DDR2, PC2-6400 (800MHz), 240 Pins, Non-ECC, Unbuffered, CAS 6 Retail - Scan.co.uk

£20.46

 

HDD 320 GB Samsung HD322HJ Spinpoint F1, SATA 3Gb/s, 7200rpm, 16MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ - Scan.co.uk

£33.89

 

Case TMB11NOPSU - Asus TM-B11 Black Mini Tower No PSU - Scan.co.uk

£21.88

 

DVD LG GH22NS50 22x DVD±R, 16xDVD±DL, DVD+RW x8/-RWx6 ,12xRAM SATA, Black, OEM - Scan.co.uk

£16.66

 

Fan Xilence Red Wing 80mm Quiet Fan - 3&4pin connection - Ebuyer

£2.94

 

<EDIT: changed link, was out of stock>

Screen Samsung SM943SN 19" TFT Monitor 1360x768 15000:1 (dynamic) 250cd/m2 5ms VGA Black - Ebuyer

£83.99

 

Windows 66I-03525 - Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit English 1pk OEM + Windows 7 Offer Form - Scan.co.uk

£90.36

 

GPU EAH4350 SILENT/DI/512MD2 - 512MB Asus HD 4350 Silent, PCI-E 2.0(x16), 800MHz GDDR2, GPU 600MHz, 80 Cores, D-Sub/ DVI-I/ HDMI - Scan.co.uk

£27.26

 

Paste Arctic Cooling MX-2 High Performance Thermal Compound (it's what arctic use on their Coolers) - Scan.co.uk

£4.36

 

TOTAL:

£408.49

 

The reason I've chosen the more delicate components from scan.co.uk is that you can take out their scansure insurance:

Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online - Scan.co.uk

 

This will protect against frying your motherboard during installation, for instance, and is designed to help PC builders. I'm not certain how much it is though; i think it will vary depending on your order.

 

I would also reccomend that you get a CPU cooler such as:

Arctic Cooling AC-FRZ-7P Freezer 7 Pro Socket 775 Processor Cooler - Ebuyer

 

but this will add £14 to the total cost, so it is up to you. The stock cooler will do for general use.

[Jelly Bean]

I would swop ou that power supply for a better one.

 

I have said this ti many many people before.You may think the CPu and mainboard are the heart of the computer.

 

I say the PSU is the heart of the computer.If your PSU fails it can cause more hardware issues such as damaged or even failed HDD,CPu,GPU and so on.

 

Always buy a decent PSU.

 

Graphics card is fine.

[Jelly Bean]

Examples on AMD build.

 

 

GZ-X6 Black Midi Case No PSU: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Socket AM2 CPU Retail: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

 

Gigabyte GA-M61PME-S2 - Motherboard - micro ATX: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

Kingston Technology 2GB 667MHz DDR2 Non-ECC CL5 DIMM: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

Corsair - TWIN2X4096-6400C5 4 GB PC2-6400 DDRII-SDRAM: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

Arctic Silver 5 3.5g Thermal Paste: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

CORSAIR PSU/Power Series 400 Watt ATX,PS: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

Thermaltake W0061 PSU 420W TR2-420W: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

OCZ 500W StealthXStream Power Supply: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

XFX 8400GS 256MB nVidia PCI Express Graphics Card: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

Inno3D nVIDIA GeForce 9400GT Graphics Card, 512MB DDR2: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

XFX GF 8800 GTS 500M 320MB DDR3 DUAL DVI TV PCI EXPRESS: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

[shrimply]

Thanks, I'll go away and have a think. To be honest though I'll probably just get it all from Ebuyer if I do go down this root. I'm not good at paying for insurance on anything, something I am bound to regret but my dad sold insurance and worked in dealing with claims for CIS for a long time and every time I mention taking out insurance I get told its a con,lol. And I'm close enough to my budget as it is.

 

I take that a 350W psu is more than enough for my needs? And we won't even go into what makes a good psu,lol. If you tell me that the one suggested is the best for my needs I'll just accept it.

 

Again graphics card wise. I noticed the one you linked to is "low profile" whereas the one I looked at didn't this means what exactly? Is it important.

 

Thanks for all the help everyone I think I'm almost getting there. If only ebuyer would put some more £85 samsung monitors up on the site I'd be happy.

 

edit - thanks for the other links jellybean, I think I'd rather use an intel processor, not too sure,Think I was told that they are better but I imagine its just because its something that I've decided. Even when looking at prebuilt computers I always tend to look for an intel set-up.

Edited August 24, 2009 by shrimply

[Jelly Bean]

Hey its fine go with intel.

 

Go for the PSU brands I posted.

 

I think if you wish to upgrade and add more hardware in the furture your better off with a 460-500 watt PSU.

 

Shrimply you know we could always do a search for a decent branded prebuilt computer for you at a decent price and help you decide on prebuilt or self build?

 

We do not mind helping out with this.

[snow]

Sorry about that, I've edited my link: they have 4 in stock last time I cheked.

 

I know what you mean about insurance, I just thought I'd put up the option in case you were very worried about building yourself.

 

As for static protection: just touch the metal part of a tap or radiator, then touch the metal of the case. Hold all circuit boards by the edges, and treat everything carefully. Read the manuals, look on google if in doubt, and of course come here to ask us :)

 

Low profile just means that the card can fit into small, desktop style cases. It's not important, as it will fit normal cases just fine.

 

What makes a good PSU, should really be who makes a good PSU. Brand is important, and the likes of Coolermaster, Corsair, Zalman, Antec, etc won't let you down.

 

The PSU in my build isn't the best: I tried to get the cost down as much as I could, but if you are prepared to, then defiantely get a better one, like in JB's reccomendations.

[Tootech]

Just a note to add about the CPU cooler.

 

If you go down the Ebuyer route, Snow's listing is a Retail CPU - that means it comes with a heatsink and fan.

 

The thermal paste is already applied to the heatsink and when you assemble it all you simply remove a plastic cover and clip it all in place. No need for any additional paste. It will be perfectly fine for anything you want to do.

 

64 bit Vista is best compromise right now.

 

Another thought, I think the way to go is Windows 7, and Ebuyer do 64 bit Vista with upgrade option to Windows 7 when it is out. I'd go with that for the extra cost, maybe others will add their thoughts too :)

 

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium w/SP1 - W/ Windows 7 Upgrade Offer Form - licence and media - 1 PC - OEM - DVD - 64-bit - English - Ebuyer

[shrimply]

Hi, well I've done some thinking and came up with the following, closely sticking to the first build suggested and trying to take everything that was said on board. Oh and am now well and truly over budget. But providing what I'm going to end up with is close to the best I can get for the money I not too bothered at the end of the day its coming off my overdraft however much it is :rolleyes:. So if you wouldn't mind taking a look at what I've got and making sure it will all work and that I've got absolutely everything needed. Anything that I'm wasting money on or that I can get a lot cheaper somewhere else let me know and just tell me if I'm being stupid I honestly don't mind.

 

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm67/D_Hunter315/build-1.jpg

 

The only other thing I need is a wireless card, I'm tempted to just buy the cheap £8.99 one.

Tenda Wireless-G PCI Adapter - Ebuyer

I'm pretty sure that its the same one that I have in my "fix-me-up" pc and I've run it on Windows XP, Ubuntu and Windows 7 without problem but there seems to be some concerns over 64bit so I'm open to suggestions here.

 

Thanks for taking the time I really appreciate it.

[Jelly Bean]

That looks great.

 

I would prefer Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse though.

 

The wireless card?To cheap look at Belkin and D-Link ones.

[Tootech]

The Coolermaster case/PSU combo is fantastic - I've used a good few on customer builds. Very quiet and reliable.

 

I'd also pass on the wireless card, really as it is an unknown. It may be great, but I'd rather go for one of these two as I know they work well.

 

ZyXEL ZyAIR G-302 v3 PCI Adapter - Ebuyer

 

D-Link AirPlus-G DWL-G510 Wireless PCI Adapter - Ebuyer

[shrimply]

Thanks, plenty to consider.

 

Think I will probaby go with the case/psu with a window, purely for aesthetics.

Coolermaster Black Elite 330 Case With eXtreme Power 460W PSU with Side Window - Ebuyer

 

But Tootech since you've used these casess which fan did you buy to fit at the front? Just realised the 80mm one listed in my last post will not be big enough for this case.

[Tootech]

which fan did you buy to fit at the front?

 

None!

 

Others may disagree but I never put a case fan in unless its a high spec machine.

 

The PSU does a good job of pulling the air through, and your spec video card does have its own fan so I wouldn't consider it required.

 

There may a difference of opinion on this around the forum, be interesting to hear other peoples views.

[Jelly Bean]

I agree with TooTech I also do not fit a front case fan unless it is a higher spec computer that needs the extra cooling.

[shrimply]

Thanks, I won't purchase any extra fans then.

 

Llast question I promise, I've been trying to find a cheaper monitor and found this one from Cdiscount.

 

Discount Samsung Samsung SyncMaster 923NW Samsung Monitors from Cdiscount.co.uk

 

Problem is it is VGA input only, and most of the cheaper ones are. Under the graphics cards specs it has this

 

2 x DVI-I (dual link) - 29 pin combined DVI ¦ 1 x HDTV output ¦ 1 x VGA - 15 pin HD D-Sub (HD-15) ( with adapter )

 

Which I presume means I can attach a VGA monitor without any problem, but is there any quality lost, is it worth paying £120 for the 22" Samsung monitor off Ebuyer which does have DVI input.

 

My total cost just seems to keep increasing.

Edited August 25, 2009 by shrimply

[snow]

That seems like a pretty good deal for the samsung monitor. The main weakness that I can see is a low contrast ratio of 1000:1, but its other specs are OK.

 

You won't notice the difference between VGA and DVI at the resolutions you are talking about; there will be practically no difference between the two.

 

If this is the 22" you mean:

Samsung SM2243LNX 22" TFT Monitor 1680x1050 10000:1 5ms VGA W/Mountable 3 Years Warranty - Glossy Black - Ebuyer

 

Then it has the major advantage of size, which matters allot in a screen, plus superior specs in just about every sense. It all boils down to how much you can spend, and what you are willing to settle for. The budget screen you've found will do fine, but if you put it next to something like the 22" then the difference in picture quality will be obvious.

 

I like the spec you've came up with on Ebuyer, the coolermaster case and PSU deal is good, and the rest of the components all fit in nicely.

 

As for the question of an extra fan; I'm going to be awkward and say that I'd do it :D

 

Computer components last longer when they run cooler. If the lifetime of your hardware can be increased by spending £3 on a fan, then I'd go for it. Xilence redwings are damn quiet; I've used them myself. They sell 12" versions on ebuyer that you won't be able to notice running.

 

That's just my take on it though. If in dbout, I'd leave the fan out to begin with, build it, and then check the temperatures while it's running. If anything seems a bit hot for your liking then go for a 12" front fan.

[shrimply]

Thanks, i've been trying to research monitor and just got completely confused. This is the one I currently have in my basket 20" samsung with DVI input.

 

Samsung SM2033SW 20"TFT Monitor 1600x900 15000:1 300cd/m2 5ms DVI/VGA Wall Mountable Glossy Black 3 Years Warranty - Ebuyer

 

Compared to the one you linked to which is larger but only got VGA input ( at least that is my new understanding), then you'd choose the larger screen over the digital input?

 

If that's the case then I might just go with the budget one, yes I'm very undecided but some of the parts in my basket now have under 10 left on Ebuyer so I'm under a bit of pressure. Don't want to make a rushed choice on the moniter and then regret it though. Guess I could order everything else and take a little bit longer to think about the monitor. It wouldn't cost me any more.

 

I'll see if I can find a fan cheap then, for £3, shouldn't hurt too much.

[snow]

Don't rush it because some components are going out of stock; they wil always get more in. Making the right choice is more important.

 

The 20" samsung is very nice with a higher dynamic contrast. If you're not sure; dynamic contrast is when the monitor dims it's backlight to make black ares of the screen look blacker. The 'real' contrast of the screen is in brackets after it, for the 20" it is 1000:1 real, 15000:1 dynamic.

 

Dynamic defiantely makes a difference though, especially for things like movies and games.

 

The 20" has a non-standard resolution of 1600x900. This means you get less pixels than the 22", and it could be harder to find support for it in games, but if you're not gaming then this won't really matter.

 

If given the choice I would rather have the 22" because of the larger screen size and larger pixel count. There will be no noticable difference between DVI and VGA.

 

It seems that Ebuyer have stopped selling the 12cm Xilence redwing fan since I last bought one, so I'm sorry for misleading you there. QuietPC still sell it, for £6:48

Red Wing 120mm Quiet Fan

 

It's purely optional, and as JB and tootech said the PSU and rear fan will probably do an OK job of ventilating the case.