Software cost of setting up a TS server?

January 25, 2008

I would like to implement a TS server in our environment. My question to you

guys is how much does the Windows Server 2003 license cost and how much are

the CAL's for the TS server? Do I have to purchase just as many client

access licenses as I would CAL's for the TS? Or can I get away with one

client access licenses and purchase as many CAL's as needed?

January 26, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

WetBehindEars <WetBehindEars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> I would like to implement a TS server in our environment. My

> question to you guys is how much does the Windows Server 2003 license

> cost and how much are the CAL's for the TS server? Do I have to

> purchase just as many client access licenses as I would CAL's for the

> TS? Or can I get away with one client access licenses and purchase

> as many CAL's as needed?

Hmmm. Well, CAL stands for "Client access license"

You will need a license (and media, of course) for W2003 Server...either

standard or enterprise. Then you will need as many Terminal Services CALs as

you require for your company's use. Unless you're also going to use this box

for something besides TS, which is not recommended anyway, you don't need

regular Windows Server CALs as you would if you were setting up a file/print

server, etc.

For pricing, I suggest you contact your preferred reseller and work with

them. They should also be able to answer your licensing questions - if not,

contact Microsoft directly as licensing can be a complex and arcane thing.

January 26, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

Excellent! This is exactly the information I needed. Thanks!

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]" wrote:

> WetBehindEars <WetBehindEars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> > I would like to implement a TS server in our environment. My

> > question to you guys is how much does the Windows Server 2003 license

> > cost and how much are the CAL's for the TS server? Do I have to

> > purchase just as many client access licenses as I would CAL's for the

> > TS? Or can I get away with one client access licenses and purchase

> > as many CAL's as needed?

>

> Hmmm. Well, CAL stands for "Client access license"

>

> You will need a license (and media, of course) for W2003 Server...either

> standard or enterprise. Then you will need as many Terminal Services CALs as

> you require for your company's use. Unless you're also going to use this box

> for something besides TS, which is not recommended anyway, you don't need

> regular Windows Server CALs as you would if you were setting up a file/print

> server, etc.

>

> For pricing, I suggest you contact your preferred reseller and work with

> them. They should also be able to answer your licensing questions - if not,

> contact Microsoft directly as licensing can be a complex and arcane thing.

>

January 26, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

I'm pretty sure that you *do* need both server CALs and TS CALs.

From the Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/priclic

faq.mspx

Q. What is the difference between a Windows CAL and a Terminal Server

(TS) CAL?

A. A Windows CAL is required when a user or device is directly or

indirectly accessing a Windows server. Additionally, if the user or

device is accessing or using the terminal server functionality of

Windows Server Standard and Enterprise Editions, a TS CAL is also

required. As an exception to these rules, up to two users or devices

may access the server software only for server administration

purposes, without requiring either a TS CAL or Windows CAL.

_________________________________________________________

Vera Noest

MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net

___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

=?Utf-8?B?V2V0QmVoaW5kRWFycw==?=

<WetBehindEars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote on 26 jan 2008 in

microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

> Excellent! This is exactly the information I needed. Thanks!

>

> "Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]" wrote:

>

>> WetBehindEars <WetBehindEars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>> > I would like to implement a TS server in our environment. My

>> > question to you guys is how much does the Windows Server 2003

>> > license cost and how much are the CAL's for the TS server?

>> > Do I have to purchase just as many client access licenses as

>> > I would CAL's for the TS? Or can I get away with one client

>> > access licenses and purchase as many CAL's as needed?

>>

>> Hmmm. Well, CAL stands for "Client access license"

>>

>> You will need a license (and media, of course) for W2003

>> Server...either standard or enterprise. Then you will need as

>> many Terminal Services CALs as you require for your company's

>> use. Unless you're also going to use this box for something

>> besides TS, which is not recommended anyway, you don't need

>> regular Windows Server CALs as you would if you were setting up

>> a file/print server, etc.

>>

>> For pricing, I suggest you contact your preferred reseller and

>> work with them. They should also be able to answer your

>> licensing questions - if not, contact Microsoft directly as

>> licensing can be a complex and arcane thing.

January 27, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

Vera Noest [MVP] <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote:

> I'm pretty sure that you *do* need both server CALs and TS CALs.

Hmm - I didn't think so - it isn't being accessed for file/print/web.

However, as is often mentioned, licensing is a vast mystery and it's best to

call Microsoft directly.

>

> From the Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ

> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/priclic

> faq.mspx

>

> Q. What is the difference between a Windows CAL and a Terminal Server

> (TS) CAL?

>

> A. A Windows CAL is required when a user or device is directly or

> indirectly accessing a Windows server. Additionally, if the user or

> device is accessing or using the terminal server functionality of

> Windows Server Standard and Enterprise Editions, a TS CAL is also

> required. As an exception to these rules, up to two users or devices

> may access the server software only for server administration

> purposes, without requiring either a TS CAL or Windows CAL.

>

> _________________________________________________________

> Vera Noest

> MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

> TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net

> ___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

>

> =?Utf-8?B?V2V0QmVoaW5kRWFycw==?=

> <WetBehindEars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote on 26 jan 2008 in

> microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

>

>> Excellent! This is exactly the information I needed. Thanks!

>>

>> "Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]" wrote:

>>

>>> WetBehindEars <WetBehindEars@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>>>> I would like to implement a TS server in our environment. My

>>>> question to you guys is how much does the Windows Server 2003

>>>> license cost and how much are the CAL's for the TS server?

>>>> Do I have to purchase just as many client access licenses as

>>>> I would CAL's for the TS? Or can I get away with one client

>>>> access licenses and purchase as many CAL's as needed?

>>>

>>> Hmmm. Well, CAL stands for "Client access license"

>>>

>>> You will need a license (and media, of course) for W2003

>>> Server...either standard or enterprise. Then you will need as

>>> many Terminal Services CALs as you require for your company's

>>> use. Unless you're also going to use this box for something

>>> besides TS, which is not recommended anyway, you don't need

>>> regular Windows Server CALs as you would if you were setting up

>>> a file/print server, etc.

>>>

>>> For pricing, I suggest you contact your preferred reseller and

>>> work with them. They should also be able to answer your

>>> licensing questions - if not, contact Microsoft directly as

>>> licensing can be a complex and arcane thing.

January 27, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

Hi,

Vera is correct.

In this case it is not a mystery. When logging on to a 2003

server via TS you must authenticate. Taking a look at the

EULA it becomes clear (it specifically lists authentication

as an one of the examples), excerpted below:

>>> Begin Excerpt

2. CLIENT ACCESS LICENSES ("CALs"). The

Software licensing model consists of an operating system

license and incremental CALs, so that the total cost for

the Software scales with usage. Several CAL types and

licensing modes are available to suit your individual needs.

a. Windows Server 2003 Client Access License ("Windows CAL")

Requirements. In addition to the license for the Server

Software, you must acquire a Windows CAL for each

individual person ("User") or Device that accesses or uses

the Server Software, whether directly or through a

Multiplexing Service (defined below). For example, a

Windows CAL is required for each User or Device that uses

any of the following services of the Server Software:

* authentication services (when user or application

credentials are exchanged between the Server Software

and a User or Device),

* file services (accessing or managing files or disk

storage),

* printing services (printing to a printer managed by the

Server Software), or

* remote access service (accessing the Server from a

remote location through a communications link,

including a virtual private network).

>>>>> End Excerpt

Additionally, the pricing and licensing page for TS 2003

has always said that windows CALs are required:

Licensing Terminal Server in Windows Server 2003 R2

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/ts2003.mspx

-TP

Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:

> Vera Noest [MVP] <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote:

>> I'm pretty sure that you *do* need both server CALs and TS CALs.

>

> Hmm - I didn't think so - it isn't being accessed for file/print/web.

> However, as is often mentioned, licensing is a vast mystery and it's

> best to call Microsoft directly.

>

January 27, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

And just to throw in some more confusion, if the 2003 TS is a member of an

SBS 2000 or SBS 2003 domain, then you would only need TS CALs, as SBS

domains and their SBS CALs cover access to all other Windows servers in the

domain. Additional Windows 2003 CALs for the TS are not needed IF you have

the proper number of SBS 200x CALs.

Gregg Hill

"TP" <tperson.knowspamn@mailandnews.com> wrote in message

news:u67gSYIYIHA.4272@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Hi,

>

> Vera is correct.

>

> In this case it is not a mystery. When logging on to a 2003 server via TS

> you must authenticate. Taking a look at the EULA it becomes clear (it

> specifically lists authentication as an one of the examples), excerpted

> below:

>

>>>> Begin Excerpt

>

> 2. CLIENT ACCESS LICENSES ("CALs"). The

> Software licensing model consists of an operating system

> license and incremental CALs, so that the total cost for

> the Software scales with usage. Several CAL types and

> licensing modes are available to suit your individual needs.

>

> a. Windows Server 2003 Client Access License ("Windows CAL")

> Requirements. In addition to the license for the Server

> Software, you must acquire a Windows CAL for each

> individual person ("User") or Device that accesses or uses

> the Server Software, whether directly or through a

> Multiplexing Service (defined below). For example, a

> Windows CAL is required for each User or Device that uses

> any of the following services of the Server Software:

> * authentication services (when user or application

> credentials are exchanged between the Server Software

> and a User or Device),

> * file services (accessing or managing files or disk

> storage),

> * printing services (printing to a printer managed by the

> Server Software), or

> * remote access service (accessing the Server from a

> remote location through a communications link,

> including a virtual private network).

>

>>>>>> End Excerpt

>

> Additionally, the pricing and licensing page for TS 2003 has always said

> that windows CALs are required:

>

> Licensing Terminal Server in Windows Server 2003 R2

>

> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/ts2003.mspx

>

> -TP

>

> Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:

>> Vera Noest [MVP] <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote:

>>> I'm pretty sure that you *do* need both server CALs and TS CALs.

>>

>> Hmm - I didn't think so - it isn't being accessed for file/print/web.

>> However, as is often mentioned, licensing is a vast mystery and it's

>> best to call Microsoft directly.

>>

January 27, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

Gregg Hill <bogus@nowhere.com> wrote:

> And just to throw in some more confusion, if the 2003 TS is a member

> of an SBS 2000 or SBS 2003 domain, then you would only need TS CALs,

> as SBS domains and their SBS CALs cover access to all other Windows

> servers in the domain. Additional Windows 2003 CALs for the TS are

> not needed IF you have the proper number of SBS 200x CALs.

>

> Gregg Hill

If anyone needs me, I'll be over in the corner, repeatedly bashing my head

into the wall, in an effort to make the voices stop. Licensing drives me

batty. Thanks to all who've corrected me, I think!

>

> "TP" <tperson.knowspamn@mailandnews.com> wrote in message

> news:u67gSYIYIHA.4272@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> Hi,

>>

>> Vera is correct.

>>

>> In this case it is not a mystery. When logging on to a 2003 server

>> via TS you must authenticate. Taking a look at the EULA it becomes

>> clear (it specifically lists authentication as an one of the

>> examples), excerpted below:

>>

>>>>> Begin Excerpt

>>

>> 2. CLIENT ACCESS LICENSES ("CALs"). The

>> Software licensing model consists of an operating system

>> license and incremental CALs, so that the total cost for

>> the Software scales with usage. Several CAL types and

>> licensing modes are available to suit your individual needs.

>>

>> a. Windows Server 2003 Client Access License ("Windows CAL")

>> Requirements. In addition to the license for the Server

>> Software, you must acquire a Windows CAL for each

>> individual person ("User") or Device that accesses or uses

>> the Server Software, whether directly or through a

>> Multiplexing Service (defined below). For example, a

>> Windows CAL is required for each User or Device that uses

>> any of the following services of the Server Software:

>> * authentication services (when user or application

>> credentials are exchanged between the Server Software

>> and a User or Device),

>> * file services (accessing or managing files or disk

>> storage),

>> * printing services (printing to a printer managed by the

>> Server Software), or

>> * remote access service (accessing the Server from a

>> remote location through a communications link,

>> including a virtual private network).

>>

>>>>>>> End Excerpt

>>

>> Additionally, the pricing and licensing page for TS 2003 has always

>> said that windows CALs are required:

>>

>> Licensing Terminal Server in Windows Server 2003 R2

>>

>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/ts2003.mspx

>>

>> -TP

>>

>> Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:

>>> Vera Noest [MVP] <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote:

>>>> I'm pretty sure that you *do* need both server CALs and TS CALs.

>>>

>>> Hmm - I didn't think so - it isn't being accessed for

>>> file/print/web. However, as is often mentioned, licensing is a vast

>>> mystery and it's best to call Microsoft directly.

January 27, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

I was not correcting you, but just adding the inevitable monkey wrench of a

TS in an SBS domain.

The first time I looked at a TS licensing document, it was about 40 pages

long. I could hardly believe my eyes.

Regarding whether or not all other Windows servers are covered by SBS CALs,

two years ago there were many differing views. I called MS Licensing about

six times and got differing answers, then one guy argued that the product

use rights document proved it does not cover other servers. I sent about ten

pages of analysis of that document to Art Pettigrue and the lead on the

licensing team, proving that the guy's analysis was based upon his

misinterpretation of the document. Four months later, I received the reply

agreeing with me that it does cover all other Windows servers.

The documentation I sent took me days to compile, but at least they are now

in agreement.

If only we could simplify TS licensing!

Gregg Hill

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

<lanwench@heybuddy.donotsendme.unsolicitedmailatyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:%23CpAwmQYIHA.4208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Gregg Hill <bogus@nowhere.com> wrote:

>> And just to throw in some more confusion, if the 2003 TS is a member

>> of an SBS 2000 or SBS 2003 domain, then you would only need TS CALs,

>> as SBS domains and their SBS CALs cover access to all other Windows

>> servers in the domain. Additional Windows 2003 CALs for the TS are

>> not needed IF you have the proper number of SBS 200x CALs.

>>

>> Gregg Hill

>

> If anyone needs me, I'll be over in the corner, repeatedly bashing my head

> into the wall, in an effort to make the voices stop. Licensing drives me

> batty. Thanks to all who've corrected me, I think!

>

>>

>> "TP" <tperson.knowspamn@mailandnews.com> wrote in message

>> news:u67gSYIYIHA.4272@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>> Hi,

>>>

>>> Vera is correct.

>>>

>>> In this case it is not a mystery. When logging on to a 2003 server

>>> via TS you must authenticate. Taking a look at the EULA it becomes

>>> clear (it specifically lists authentication as an one of the

>>> examples), excerpted below:

>>>

>>>>>> Begin Excerpt

>>>

>>> 2. CLIENT ACCESS LICENSES ("CALs"). The

>>> Software licensing model consists of an operating system

>>> license and incremental CALs, so that the total cost for

>>> the Software scales with usage. Several CAL types and

>>> licensing modes are available to suit your individual needs.

>>>

>>> a. Windows Server 2003 Client Access License ("Windows CAL")

>>> Requirements. In addition to the license for the Server

>>> Software, you must acquire a Windows CAL for each

>>> individual person ("User") or Device that accesses or uses

>>> the Server Software, whether directly or through a

>>> Multiplexing Service (defined below). For example, a

>>> Windows CAL is required for each User or Device that uses

>>> any of the following services of the Server Software:

>>> * authentication services (when user or application

>>> credentials are exchanged between the Server Software

>>> and a User or Device),

>>> * file services (accessing or managing files or disk

>>> storage),

>>> * printing services (printing to a printer managed by the

>>> Server Software), or

>>> * remote access service (accessing the Server from a

>>> remote location through a communications link,

>>> including a virtual private network).

>>>

>>>>>>>> End Excerpt

>>>

>>> Additionally, the pricing and licensing page for TS 2003 has always

>>> said that windows CALs are required:

>>>

>>> Licensing Terminal Server in Windows Server 2003 R2

>>>

>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/ts2003.mspx

>>>

>>> -TP

>>>

>>> Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:

>>>> Vera Noest [MVP] <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote:

>>>>> I'm pretty sure that you *do* need both server CALs and TS CALs.

>>>>

>>>> Hmm - I didn't think so - it isn't being accessed for

>>>> file/print/web. However, as is often mentioned, licensing is a vast

>>>> mystery and it's best to call Microsoft directly.

>

January 27, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

I don't want to sound conceited, but isn't it mostly a myth that

licensing is so terribly difficult to understand (implying that it

is illogical)? In nearly all situations, I find licensing

requirements totally clear and intuitive: if you have a server and

a client, you need a server CAL. If you have a TS, you need a TS

CAL.

And exceptions are usually well-documented:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/sbs/techinfo/overview/li

censingfaq.mspx

Q. I want to have additional Windows-based servers in my Windows

Small Business Server 2003 domain. Do I need CALs for those

servers?

A. Your Windows Small Business Server 2003 CALs cover you for any

additional Windows-based servers in the domain. You do not need to

buy additional CALs for them.

OK, shoot me ... :-)

_________________________________________________________

Vera Noest

MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net

___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

"Gregg Hill" <bogus@nowhere.com> wrote on 27 jan 2008 in

microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

> I was not correcting you, but just adding the inevitable monkey

> wrench of a TS in an SBS domain.

>

> The first time I looked at a TS licensing document, it was about

> 40 pages long. I could hardly believe my eyes.

>

> Regarding whether or not all other Windows servers are covered

> by SBS CALs, two years ago there were many differing views. I

> called MS Licensing about six times and got differing answers,

> then one guy argued that the product use rights document proved

> it does not cover other servers. I sent about ten pages of

> analysis of that document to Art Pettigrue and the lead on the

> licensing team, proving that the guy's analysis was based upon

> his misinterpretation of the document. Four months later, I

> received the reply agreeing with me that it does cover all other

> Windows servers.

>

> The documentation I sent took me days to compile, but at least

> they are now in agreement.

>

> If only we could simplify TS licensing!

>

> Gregg Hill

>

> "Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

> <lanwench@heybuddy.donotsendme.unsolicitedmailatyahoo.com> wrote

> in message news:%23CpAwmQYIHA.4208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Gregg Hill <bogus@nowhere.com> wrote:

>>> And just to throw in some more confusion, if the 2003 TS is a

>>> member of an SBS 2000 or SBS 2003 domain, then you would only

>>> need TS CALs, as SBS domains and their SBS CALs cover access

>>> to all other Windows servers in the domain. Additional Windows

>>> 2003 CALs for the TS are not needed IF you have the proper

>>> number of SBS 200x CALs.

>>>

>>> Gregg Hill

>>

>> If anyone needs me, I'll be over in the corner, repeatedly

>> bashing my head into the wall, in an effort to make the voices

>> stop. Licensing drives me batty. Thanks to all who've corrected

>> me, I think!

>>

>>>

>>> "TP" <tperson.knowspamn@mailandnews.com> wrote in message

>>> news:u67gSYIYIHA.4272@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>> Hi,

>>>>

>>>> Vera is correct.

>>>>

>>>> In this case it is not a mystery. When logging on to a 2003

>>>> server via TS you must authenticate. Taking a look at the

>>>> EULA it becomes clear (it specifically lists authentication

>>>> as an one of the examples), excerpted below:

>>>>

>>>>>>> Begin Excerpt

>>>>

>>>> 2. CLIENT ACCESS LICENSES ("CALs"). The

>>>> Software licensing model consists of an operating system

>>>> license and incremental CALs, so that the total cost for

>>>> the Software scales with usage. Several CAL types and

>>>> licensing modes are available to suit your individual

>>>> needs.

>>>>

>>>> a. Windows Server 2003 Client Access License ("Windows

>>>> CAL") Requirements. In addition to the license for the

>>>> Server Software, you must acquire a Windows CAL for each

>>>> individual person ("User") or Device that accesses or uses

>>>> the Server Software, whether directly or through a

>>>> Multiplexing Service (defined below). For example, a

>>>> Windows CAL is required for each User or Device that uses

>>>> any of the following services of the Server Software:

>>>> * authentication services (when user or application

>>>> credentials are exchanged between the Server Software

>>>> and a User or Device),

>>>> * file services (accessing or managing files or disk

>>>> storage),

>>>> * printing services (printing to a printer managed by

>>>> the

>>>> Server Software), or

>>>> * remote access service (accessing the Server from a

>>>> remote location through a communications link,

>>>> including a virtual private network).

>>>>

>>>>>>>>> End Excerpt

>>>>

>>>> Additionally, the pricing and licensing page for TS 2003 has

>>>> always said that windows CALs are required:

>>>>

>>>> Licensing Terminal Server in Windows Server 2003 R2

>>>>

>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/

>>>> ts2003.mspx

>>>>

>>>> -TP

>>>>

>>>> Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:

>>>>> Vera Noest [MVP] <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se>

>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>> I'm pretty sure that you *do* need both server CALs and TS

>>>>>> CALs.

>>>>>

>>>>> Hmm - I didn't think so - it isn't being accessed for

>>>>> file/print/web. However, as is often mentioned, licensing is

>>>>> a vast mystery and it's best to call Microsoft directly.

January 28, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

Vera,

The article you mention was one of the docs I used to counter the PUR that

was misinterpreted. At the time, MS had three web articles that said exactly

the opposite of the page you noted, i.e., they said that an SBS CAL *is*

required to access the additional Windows server. Those articles are no

longer available.

In the case of SBS domains, several MS licensing folks claimed that an

additional Windows server in an SBS domain did require another SBS CAL.

Several others disagreed and said the SBS CALs covered the additional

Windows servers and that one could have 100 additional Windows servers

without consuming a single SBS CAL. The former argued until they were blue

in the face (in MANY emailed discussions), which is why I did my analysis.

One email response I received from MS licensing that really got my analysis

started read:

"Hello Gregg,

I did receive your voice mail but we are currently swamped, so I am writing

this in the spare moments between calls. I have read the KB article you

referred to in the voice mail. In fact I was discussing this issue with

another customer when you called. The FAQ regarding needing addition CALs

for computers running Server 2003 is, I think, poorly worded. The response

I received and forwarded on to you was a response from the development team,

as well as from teir 2 licensing experts. On page 20 in the Product Use

Rights document (which link I added to the previous e-mail) it explicitly

states that a Windows Server 2003 device on a Small Business Server 2003

domain will require one Small Business Server Device CAL in order to be

compliant with Microsoft licensing. For example, if you were running a

Small Business Server 2003 domain with one Windows Server 2003 running

Terminal Services and 27 users/computers in your buisness you would need

the following licenses to be compliant:

1 Small Business Server 2003 server license

1 Windows Server 2003 server license

28 Small Business Server 2003 Device CALs (27 for your users/computers, 1

for the Windows Server 2003 server)

1 Terminal Server CAL for every user using Terminal Services

As I suspected, the CAL the FAQ refers to is for server-to-server

communication. This is one a few instances in which you do need a license

for such communication. The other are listed in the PUR, pages 20 and 21.

I have sent this from my e-mail account so that if you have any futher

questions, or need further clarification, you may reach me.

Sincerely,

(Name removed to prevent embarrassment)"

He was misinterpreting the PUR document to which he referred, so I sent a

gob of documentation to Art to prove that point and he passed it on to the

licensing team leader. Art's only response to me was "Wow!" and not much

else.

I agree with your statement that "...if you have a server and a client, you

need a server CAL. If you have a TS, you need a TS CAL." What was in

question two years ago is what constituted a "client" and some MS folks

claimed that another Windows server was a client to an SBS server and

therefore required a CAL, which is not true.

No, I am not so conceited to think that I was the primary factor in their

decision, but I know I stirred the pot enough to get them to clarify the

answer to their own department. It took a LOT of documentation to get them

to understand their own PUR doc.

Gregg Hill

"Vera Noest [MVP]" <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote in message

news:Xns9A32F2FEADA67veranoesthemutforsse@207.46.248.16...

>I don't want to sound conceited, but isn't it mostly a myth that

> licensing is so terribly difficult to understand (implying that it

> is illogical)? In nearly all situations, I find licensing

> requirements totally clear and intuitive: if you have a server and

> a client, you need a server CAL. If you have a TS, you need a TS

> CAL.

>

> And exceptions are usually well-documented:

> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/sbs/techinfo/overview/li

> censingfaq.mspx

>

> Q. I want to have additional Windows-based servers in my Windows

> Small Business Server 2003 domain. Do I need CALs for those

> servers?

> A. Your Windows Small Business Server 2003 CALs cover you for any

> additional Windows-based servers in the domain. You do not need to

> buy additional CALs for them.

>

> OK, shoot me ... :-)

>

> _________________________________________________________

> Vera Noest

> MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

> TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net

> ___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

>

> "Gregg Hill" <bogus@nowhere.com> wrote on 27 jan 2008 in

> microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

>

>> I was not correcting you, but just adding the inevitable monkey

>> wrench of a TS in an SBS domain.

>>

>> The first time I looked at a TS licensing document, it was about

>> 40 pages long. I could hardly believe my eyes.

>>

>> Regarding whether or not all other Windows servers are covered

>> by SBS CALs, two years ago there were many differing views. I

>> called MS Licensing about six times and got differing answers,

>> then one guy argued that the product use rights document proved

>> it does not cover other servers. I sent about ten pages of

>> analysis of that document to Art Pettigrue and the lead on the

>> licensing team, proving that the guy's analysis was based upon

>> his misinterpretation of the document. Four months later, I

>> received the reply agreeing with me that it does cover all other

>> Windows servers.

>>

>> The documentation I sent took me days to compile, but at least

>> they are now in agreement.

>>

>> If only we could simplify TS licensing!

>>

>> Gregg Hill

>>

>> "Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

>> <lanwench@heybuddy.donotsendme.unsolicitedmailatyahoo.com> wrote

>> in message news:%23CpAwmQYIHA.4208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>> Gregg Hill <bogus@nowhere.com> wrote:

>>>> And just to throw in some more confusion, if the 2003 TS is a

>>>> member of an SBS 2000 or SBS 2003 domain, then you would only

>>>> need TS CALs, as SBS domains and their SBS CALs cover access

>>>> to all other Windows servers in the domain. Additional Windows

>>>> 2003 CALs for the TS are not needed IF you have the proper

>>>> number of SBS 200x CALs.

>>>>

>>>> Gregg Hill

>>>

>>> If anyone needs me, I'll be over in the corner, repeatedly

>>> bashing my head into the wall, in an effort to make the voices

>>> stop. Licensing drives me batty. Thanks to all who've corrected

>>> me, I think!

>>>

>>>>

>>>> "TP" <tperson.knowspamn@mailandnews.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:u67gSYIYIHA.4272@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>>> Hi,

>>>>>

>>>>> Vera is correct.

>>>>>

>>>>> In this case it is not a mystery. When logging on to a 2003

>>>>> server via TS you must authenticate. Taking a look at the

>>>>> EULA it becomes clear (it specifically lists authentication

>>>>> as an one of the examples), excerpted below:

>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Begin Excerpt

>>>>>

>>>>> 2. CLIENT ACCESS LICENSES ("CALs"). The

>>>>> Software licensing model consists of an operating system

>>>>> license and incremental CALs, so that the total cost for

>>>>> the Software scales with usage. Several CAL types and

>>>>> licensing modes are available to suit your individual

>>>>> needs.

>>>>>

>>>>> a. Windows Server 2003 Client Access License ("Windows

>>>>> CAL") Requirements. In addition to the license for the

>>>>> Server Software, you must acquire a Windows CAL for each

>>>>> individual person ("User") or Device that accesses or uses

>>>>> the Server Software, whether directly or through a

>>>>> Multiplexing Service (defined below). For example, a

>>>>> Windows CAL is required for each User or Device that uses

>>>>> any of the following services of the Server Software:

>>>>> * authentication services (when user or application

>>>>> credentials are exchanged between the Server Software

>>>>> and a User or Device),

>>>>> * file services (accessing or managing files or disk

>>>>> storage),

>>>>> * printing services (printing to a printer managed by

>>>>> the

>>>>> Server Software), or

>>>>> * remote access service (accessing the Server from a

>>>>> remote location through a communications link,

>>>>> including a virtual private network).

>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> End Excerpt

>>>>>

>>>>> Additionally, the pricing and licensing page for TS 2003 has

>>>>> always said that windows CALs are required:

>>>>>

>>>>> Licensing Terminal Server in Windows Server 2003 R2

>>>>>

>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/

>>>>> ts2003.mspx

>>>>>

>>>>> -TP

>>>>>

>>>>> Lanwench [MVP - Exchange] wrote:

>>>>>> Vera Noest [MVP] <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se>

>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure that you *do* need both server CALs and TS

>>>>>>> CALs.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Hmm - I didn't think so - it isn't being accessed for

>>>>>> file/print/web. However, as is often mentioned, licensing is

>>>>>> a vast mystery and it's best to call Microsoft directly.

January 28, 2008

Re: Software cost of setting up a TS server?

Vera Noest [MVP] <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote:

> I don't want to sound conceited, but isn't it mostly a myth that

> licensing is so terribly difficult to understand (implying that it

> is illogical)? In nearly all situations, I find licensing

> requirements totally clear and intuitive: if you have a server and

> a client, you need a server CAL. If you have a TS, you need a TS

> CAL.

>

> And exceptions are usually well-documented:

> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/sbs/techinfo/overview/li

> censingfaq.mspx

>

> Q. I want to have additional Windows-based servers in my Windows

> Small Business Server 2003 domain. Do I need CALs for those

> servers?

> A. Your Windows Small Business Server 2003 CALs cover you for any

> additional Windows-based servers in the domain. You do not need to

> buy additional CALs for them.

>

> OK, shoot me ... :-)

Well, I've always thought you were, like, a MENSA genius or something

anyway, Vera. I'd say that MS' licensing model does confuse a lot of

normally intelligent beings. User v. device is a bit difficult to wrap one's

head around, where regular CALs are concerned. And remember SA? Resellers &

vendors frequently misunderstand how this stuff works and misinform people

as well.

A lot of my frustration is probably due to the fact that I find a lot of

licensing requirements too ridiculous for words. If I'm using a server for

TS *only* ...and I mean *only* - I shouldn't need to buy *two* freakin' CALs

per user (or device).

Oh, and to be even handed, it isn't only Microsoft that sends me into the

cranium-banging corner, not by a long shot. Don't get me started. :)