Windows 2003 Server and Terminal Server Licensing nightmare

[Guest AllenM]

I have a few questions regarding legal licensing in a clients environment

where we will be installing software and assisting them in setting up

terminal and remote services. I'm not 100% sure of all the logistics but I'm

going to give all the details as I know.

 

This is new hardware (DELL 2350 64-bit) and Windows 2003 R2 Standard -

64-bit I believe. This will be a terminal server as we will be installing

Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 as well as Citrix Web Interface for remote

access. So Citrix licensing part is easy. no problem there concerning

licensing. Here's where I'm a bit confused as to the proper licensing they

need to be legally licensed.

 

Apparently in the home office there are 10 - 12 users there. They will be

accessing the Windows 2003 server remotely via Citrix. I know what you're

thinking and that is why if they are in the office do they need to access

the server remotely and my answer to you is "because". Trust me I really

don't understand there reasoning either. Now from what I understand there

are going to be anywhere from 50-150 non employee clients needing to access

this server to be able to update and input information into the dedicated

program that will reside on this Citrix/terminal server. Now I'm not sure if

they plan on using 1 generic guest account for all or if they plan on

creating domain or local accounts for them all. My guess is they will be

using guest account. Now will these all be concurrent connections? Again I'm

not sure but again would imagine no and that because they are only buying 50

Citrix licenses I'm thinking the concurrent connections will be 50. Oh did I

mention that theconnections will be nationally as some internationally?

So here's my dilenma. I'm not sure!!!! Here's what I'm thinking and it's

probably way off base.

 

50 Citrix licenses

50 Windows 2003 Server User/CAL's

50 Terminal Server User/CAL's or

 

Also is this environment ideal to consider going with the Windows Server

2003 Terminal Server External Connector licensing instead? And if so is it

necessary to purchase the 50 Windows 2003 server User/CAL's.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was an 800 Microsoft Licensing

number for customers who need assistance regarding legal licensing issues.

Thanks in advance to all.

[Guest Vera Noest [MVP]]

Re: Windows 2003 Server and Terminal Server Licensing nightmare

 

One big difference between Citrix and MS licensing is that Citrix

licenses are per concurrent connection, and MS is not.

 

So even if 50 Citrix CALs are enough to cover a maximum of 50

concurrent connections, you will still need to know the total

number of client devices or users to know the number of CALs and TS

CALs you need. And you can't get away with a single generic or

guest account to limit the number to 1, you'll have to count

persons (when using Per User licensing).

 

So that would be 12 in the office + 150 remote = 162 Per User CALs

and TS CALs.

 

But then there's the question of the External Connector Licensing.

That's difficult to say without knowing more about the type of

remote users. From the

Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/pricl

icfaq.mspx

 

Q. Who qualifies as an External User?

 

A. An external user is a person who is not an employee, or similar

personnel of the company or its affiliates, and is not someone to

whom you provide hosted services using the server software.

 

Assuming that your remote users qualify as External Users, you

would have to acquire an External Connnector license for the DC and

the TS (and every other server the users might access), and they

would replace the CALs and TS CALs for these users. The 12 persons

in the main office would still need a normal CAL and TS CAL,

though, because they are employees.

 

But the best you can do is to ask someone from Microsoft.

Here's the contact information you are looking for:

 

Contact a Volume Licensing Specialist

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/contact/default.mspx

 

_________________________________________________________

Vera Noest

MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net

___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

 

"AllenM" <noreply@NoEmail.com> wrote on 01 feb 2008 in

microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

> I have a few questions regarding legal licensing in a clients

> environment where we will be installing software and assisting

> them in setting up terminal and remote services. I'm not 100%

> sure of all the logistics but I'm going to give all the details

> as I know.

>

> This is new hardware (DELL 2350 64-bit) and Windows 2003 R2

> Standard - 64-bit I believe. This will be a terminal server as

> we will be installing Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 as well as

> Citrix Web Interface for remote access. So Citrix licensing part

> is easy. no problem there concerning licensing. Here's where I'm

> a bit confused as to the proper licensing they need to be

> legally licensed.

>

> Apparently in the home office there are 10 - 12 users there.

> They will be accessing the Windows 2003 server remotely via

> Citrix. I know what you're thinking and that is why if they are

> in the office do they need to access the server remotely and my

> answer to you is "because". Trust me I really don't understand

> there reasoning either. Now from what I understand there are

> going to be anywhere from 50-150 non employee clients needing to

> access this server to be able to update and input information

> into the dedicated program that will reside on this

> Citrix/terminal server. Now I'm not sure if they plan on using 1

> generic guest account for all or if they plan on creating domain

> or local accounts for them all. My guess is they will be using

> guest account. Now will these all be concurrent connections?

> Again I'm not sure but again would imagine no and that because

> they are only buying 50 Citrix licenses I'm thinking the

> concurrent connections will be 50. Oh did I mention that

> theconnections will be nationally as some internationally? So

> here's my dilenma. I'm not sure!!!! Here's what I'm thinking and

> it's probably way off base.

>

> 50 Citrix licenses

> 50 Windows 2003 Server User/CAL's

> 50 Terminal Server User/CAL's or

>

> Also is this environment ideal to consider going with the

> Windows Server 2003 Terminal Server External Connector licensing

> instead? And if so is it necessary to purchase the 50 Windows

> 2003 server User/CAL's.

>

> Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was an 800 Microsoft

> Licensing number for customers who need assistance regarding

> legal licensing issues. Thanks in advance to all.

[Guest AllenM]

Re: Windows 2003 Server and Terminal Server Licensing nightmare

 

Vera thank you very much. I am aware that Citrix licenses are for concurrent

connections and that the home office users would require CAL's as well as TS

CAL's. Now my understanding is that these other remote users are not

employees. Best yet I explain what the server is and what it is going to be

used for. This server is going to be used to run a clinical trial software

program. The "external" users will be doctors and physicians who are

participating in this study and will be accessing the server to input

patient information. Being that we are FDA regulated and we do want to

comply with FDA standards I'm going to suggest that these doctors all have

their own login credentials for security and auditing purposes. Highly

unlikely there will be more than 50 c0ncurrent users on at the same time.

The home office "eployees" will be the ones accessing the server and

compliling all this data into the progam. So yes I do understand that they

will need server CAL's as well as TS CAL's. My concern was what to do with

all these other "external" users. Thanks for he input and thanks for the

link.

 

 

"Vera Noest [MVP]" <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote in message

news:Xns9A37D982F4D54veranoesthemutforsse@207.46.248.16...

> One big difference between Citrix and MS licensing is that Citrix

> licenses are per concurrent connection, and MS is not.

>

> So even if 50 Citrix CALs are enough to cover a maximum of 50

> concurrent connections, you will still need to know the total

> number of client devices or users to know the number of CALs and TS

> CALs you need. And you can't get away with a single generic or

> guest account to limit the number to 1, you'll have to count

> persons (when using Per User licensing).

>

> So that would be 12 in the office + 150 remote = 162 Per User CALs

> and TS CALs.

>

> But then there's the question of the External Connector Licensing.

> That's difficult to say without knowing more about the type of

> remote users. From the

> Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ

> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/pricl

> icfaq.mspx

>

> Q. Who qualifies as an External User?

>

> A. An external user is a person who is not an employee, or similar

> personnel of the company or its affiliates, and is not someone to

> whom you provide hosted services using the server software.

>

> Assuming that your remote users qualify as External Users, you

> would have to acquire an External Connnector license for the DC and

> the TS (and every other server the users might access), and they

> would replace the CALs and TS CALs for these users. The 12 persons

> in the main office would still need a normal CAL and TS CAL,

> though, because they are employees.

>

> But the best you can do is to ask someone from Microsoft.

> Here's the contact information you are looking for:

>

> Contact a Volume Licensing Specialist

> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/contact/default.mspx

>

> _________________________________________________________

> Vera Noest

> MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

> TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net

> ___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

>

> "AllenM" <noreply@NoEmail.com> wrote on 01 feb 2008 in

> microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

>

>> I have a few questions regarding legal licensing in a clients

>> environment where we will be installing software and assisting

>> them in setting up terminal and remote services. I'm not 100%

>> sure of all the logistics but I'm going to give all the details

>> as I know.

>>

>> This is new hardware (DELL 2350 64-bit) and Windows 2003 R2

>> Standard - 64-bit I believe. This will be a terminal server as

>> we will be installing Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 as well as

>> Citrix Web Interface for remote access. So Citrix licensing part

>> is easy. no problem there concerning licensing. Here's where I'm

>> a bit confused as to the proper licensing they need to be

>> legally licensed.

>>

>> Apparently in the home office there are 10 - 12 users there.

>> They will be accessing the Windows 2003 server remotely via

>> Citrix. I know what you're thinking and that is why if they are

>> in the office do they need to access the server remotely and my

>> answer to you is "because". Trust me I really don't understand

>> there reasoning either. Now from what I understand there are

>> going to be anywhere from 50-150 non employee clients needing to

>> access this server to be able to update and input information

>> into the dedicated program that will reside on this

>> Citrix/terminal server. Now I'm not sure if they plan on using 1

>> generic guest account for all or if they plan on creating domain

>> or local accounts for them all. My guess is they will be using

>> guest account. Now will these all be concurrent connections?

>> Again I'm not sure but again would imagine no and that because

>> they are only buying 50 Citrix licenses I'm thinking the

>> concurrent connections will be 50. Oh did I mention that

>> theconnections will be nationally as some internationally? So

>> here's my dilenma. I'm not sure!!!! Here's what I'm thinking and

>> it's probably way off base.

>>

>> 50 Citrix licenses

>> 50 Windows 2003 Server User/CAL's

>> 50 Terminal Server User/CAL's or

>>

>> Also is this environment ideal to consider going with the

>> Windows Server 2003 Terminal Server External Connector licensing

>> instead? And if so is it necessary to purchase the 50 Windows

>> 2003 server User/CAL's.

>>

>> Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was an 800 Microsoft

>> Licensing number for customers who need assistance regarding

>> legal licensing issues. Thanks in advance to all.

[Guest Vera Noest [MVP]]

Re: Windows 2003 Server and Terminal Server Licensing nightmare

 

You're welcome, Allen!

I would certainly ask a Microsoft licensing specialist to decide if

those users are to be regarded as External users.

 

_________________________________________________________

Vera Noest

MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net

___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

 

"AllenM" <noreply@NoEmail.com> wrote on 01 feb 2008 in

microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

> Vera thank you very much. I am aware that Citrix licenses are

> for concurrent connections and that the home office users would

> require CAL's as well as TS CAL's. Now my understanding is that

> these other remote users are not employees. Best yet I explain

> what the server is and what it is going to be used for. This

> server is going to be used to run a clinical trial software

> program. The "external" users will be doctors and physicians who

> are participating in this study and will be accessing the server

> to input patient information. Being that we are FDA regulated

> and we do want to comply with FDA standards I'm going to suggest

> that these doctors all have their own login credentials for

> security and auditing purposes. Highly unlikely there will be

> more than 50 c0ncurrent users on at the same time. The home

> office "eployees" will be the ones accessing the server and

> compliling all this data into the progam. So yes I do understand

> that they will need server CAL's as well as TS CAL's. My concern

> was what to do with all these other "external" users. Thanks for

> he input and thanks for the link.

>

>

> "Vera Noest [MVP]" <vera.noest@remove-this.hem.utfors.se> wrote

> in message

> news:Xns9A37D982F4D54veranoesthemutforsse@207.46.248.16...

>> One big difference between Citrix and MS licensing is that

>> Citrix licenses are per concurrent connection, and MS is not.

>>

>> So even if 50 Citrix CALs are enough to cover a maximum of 50

>> concurrent connections, you will still need to know the total

>> number of client devices or users to know the number of CALs

>> and TS CALs you need. And you can't get away with a single

>> generic or guest account to limit the number to 1, you'll have

>> to count persons (when using Per User licensing).

>>

>> So that would be 12 in the office + 150 remote = 162 Per User

>> CALs and TS CALs.

>>

>> But then there's the question of the External Connector

>> Licensing. That's difficult to say without knowing more about

>> the type of remote users. From the

>> Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ

>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/pr

>> icl icfaq.mspx

>>

>> Q. Who qualifies as an External User?

>>

>> A. An external user is a person who is not an employee, or

>> similar personnel of the company or its affiliates, and is not

>> someone to whom you provide hosted services using the server

>> software.

>>

>> Assuming that your remote users qualify as External Users, you

>> would have to acquire an External Connnector license for the DC

>> and the TS (and every other server the users might access), and

>> they would replace the CALs and TS CALs for these users. The 12

>> persons in the main office would still need a normal CAL and TS

>> CAL, though, because they are employees.

>>

>> But the best you can do is to ask someone from Microsoft.

>> Here's the contact information you are looking for:

>>

>> Contact a Volume Licensing Specialist

>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/contact/default.mspx

>>

>> _________________________________________________________

>> Vera Noest

>> MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

>> TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net

>> ___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

>>

>> "AllenM" <noreply@NoEmail.com> wrote on 01 feb 2008 in

>> microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services:

>>

>>> I have a few questions regarding legal licensing in a clients

>>> environment where we will be installing software and assisting

>>> them in setting up terminal and remote services. I'm not 100%

>>> sure of all the logistics but I'm going to give all the

>>> details as I know.

>>>

>>> This is new hardware (DELL 2350 64-bit) and Windows 2003 R2

>>> Standard - 64-bit I believe. This will be a terminal server as

>>> we will be installing Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 as well

>>> as Citrix Web Interface for remote access. So Citrix licensing

>>> part is easy. no problem there concerning licensing. Here's

>>> where I'm a bit confused as to the proper licensing they need

>>> to be legally licensed.

>>>

>>> Apparently in the home office there are 10 - 12 users there.

>>> They will be accessing the Windows 2003 server remotely via

>>> Citrix. I know what you're thinking and that is why if they

>>> are in the office do they need to access the server remotely

>>> and my answer to you is "because". Trust me I really don't

>>> understand there reasoning either. Now from what I understand

>>> there are going to be anywhere from 50-150 non employee

>>> clients needing to access this server to be able to update and

>>> input information into the dedicated program that will reside

>>> on this Citrix/terminal server. Now I'm not sure if they plan

>>> on using 1 generic guest account for all or if they plan on

>>> creating domain or local accounts for them all. My guess is

>>> they will be using guest account. Now will these all be

>>> concurrent connections? Again I'm not sure but again would

>>> imagine no and that because they are only buying 50 Citrix

>>> licenses I'm thinking the concurrent connections will be 50.

>>> Oh did I mention that theconnections will be nationally as

>>> some internationally? So here's my dilenma. I'm not sure!!!!

>>> Here's what I'm thinking and it's probably way off base.

>>>

>>> 50 Citrix licenses

>>> 50 Windows 2003 Server User/CAL's

>>> 50 Terminal Server User/CAL's or

>>>

>>> Also is this environment ideal to consider going with the

>>> Windows Server 2003 Terminal Server External Connector

>>> licensing instead? And if so is it necessary to purchase the

>>> 50 Windows 2003 server User/CAL's.

>>>

>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was an 800

>>> Microsoft Licensing number for customers who need assistance

>>> regarding legal licensing issues. Thanks in advance to all.