Guest Will Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 I had a really disappointing event take place today with a critical system that runs Windows 2003 32-bit. Effectively *all* of the dynamic disk structures were corrupted, even though we were not working on them at the time of the reboot. Upon reboot the system gives some brief message about the disk being corrupt, and the Windows 2003 boot sequence never starts. Looking at all of the drives inside the Disk Management utility in Microsoft's ERD Commander Boot CD, the Dynamic volumes show in the state "Offline". A Google search seems to suggest that Dynamic volumes in an offline state normally means the Dynamic volume information is corrupt and cannot be loaded. What is particularly horrifying to me is we have two separate hardware RAID controllers with three and five volumes respectively, and then we had mirrored drives across those different controllers using Windows 2003 mirroring. When we rebooted, the corruption of the Dynamic volume information resulted in ALL EIGHT drives effectively disappearing and going "offline". So while the benefit of Dynamic volumes carrying around information about other volumes on each volume has its advantages, the downside of this system now becomes very clear to me. If you hit on any bug that writes the Dynamic volume information incorrectly, you are going to lose EVERYTHING on that system that is Dynamic! We are in the process of recovering by hacking volume structures to convert the Dynamic back to Simple volumes, and that so far seems to be going the right direction. Can someone explain to me under what scenarios this kind of dramatic corruption of Dynamic volume structures can take place? If I have a loose end in my hardware, I need to know what possibilities to chase. I didn't have a good backup of this system since it was just being built up, and losing it would have been a complete catastrophe. -- Will
Guest Will Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks In attempting to recover the boot device from our failure of dynamic disks, we did these steps: 1) Converted the boot volume from Dynamic to Simple using DSKPROBE from inside ERD Commander 2005. 2) Made the Simple partition Active, probably from Disk Management in ERD Commander 2005. 3) Ran chkdsk /r from the Windows 2003 recovery console. 4) Ran Fixboot from recovery console 5) Ran FixMBR from recovery console In spite of all of these steps, any attempt to boot the from the system volume gets: "Error Loading Operating System" I normally associate that message with a BIOS configuration problem or a hard drive cylinder mapping issue. I am not finding the problem in our case. Can someone give me more detail about this error and how to overcome it? Would an incorrect disk number inside of BOOT.INI ever cause this error? -- Will "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message news:qZCdnVi46_lsWi7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... >I had a really disappointing event take place today with a critical system >that runs Windows 2003 32-bit. Effectively *all* of the dynamic disk >structures were corrupted, even though we were not working on them at the >time of the reboot. Upon reboot the system gives some brief message >about the disk being corrupt, and the Windows 2003 boot sequence never >starts. Looking at all of the drives inside the Disk Management utility in >Microsoft's ERD Commander Boot CD, the Dynamic volumes show in the state >"Offline". A Google search seems to suggest that Dynamic volumes in an >offline state normally means the Dynamic volume information is corrupt and >cannot be loaded. > > What is particularly horrifying to me is we have two separate hardware > RAID controllers with three and five volumes respectively, and then we had > mirrored drives across those different controllers using Windows 2003 > mirroring. When we rebooted, the corruption of the Dynamic volume > information resulted in ALL EIGHT drives effectively disappearing and > going "offline". So while the benefit of Dynamic volumes carrying around > information about other volumes on each volume has its advantages, the > downside of this system now becomes very clear to me. If you hit on any > bug that writes the Dynamic volume information incorrectly, you are going > to lose EVERYTHING on that system that is Dynamic! > > We are in the process of recovering by hacking volume structures to > convert the Dynamic back to Simple volumes, and that so far seems to be > going the right direction. > > Can someone explain to me under what scenarios this kind of dramatic > corruption of Dynamic volume structures can take place? If I have a > loose end in my hardware, I need to know what possibilities to chase. I > didn't have a good backup of this system since it was just being built up, > and losing it would have been a complete catastrophe. > > -- > Will >
Guest Pegasus \(MVP\) Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks Try to separate the boot process from the Windows startup process, by booting the machine with a Windows boot diskette. Format a floppy disk on some Windows2000/XP machine, then copy these files to it: - ntldr - ntdetect.com - boot.ini "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message news:gq-dnewMEsqNbC7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... > In attempting to recover the boot device from our failure of dynamic > disks, we did these steps: > > 1) Converted the boot volume from Dynamic to Simple using DSKPROBE from > inside ERD Commander 2005. > 2) Made the Simple partition Active, probably from Disk Management in ERD > Commander 2005. > 3) Ran chkdsk /r from the Windows 2003 recovery console. > 4) Ran Fixboot from recovery console > 5) Ran FixMBR from recovery console > > In spite of all of these steps, any attempt to boot the from the system > volume gets: > > "Error Loading Operating System" > > I normally associate that message with a BIOS configuration problem or a > hard drive cylinder mapping issue. I am not finding the problem in our > case. Can someone give me more detail about this error and how to > overcome it? > > Would an incorrect disk number inside of BOOT.INI ever cause this error? > > -- > Will > > > "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message > news:qZCdnVi46_lsWi7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... >>I had a really disappointing event take place today with a critical system >>that runs Windows 2003 32-bit. Effectively *all* of the dynamic disk >>structures were corrupted, even though we were not working on them at the >>time of the reboot. Upon reboot the system gives some brief message >>about the disk being corrupt, and the Windows 2003 boot sequence never >>starts. Looking at all of the drives inside the Disk Management utility in >>Microsoft's ERD Commander Boot CD, the Dynamic volumes show in the state >>"Offline". A Google search seems to suggest that Dynamic volumes in an >>offline state normally means the Dynamic volume information is corrupt and >>cannot be loaded. >> >> What is particularly horrifying to me is we have two separate hardware >> RAID controllers with three and five volumes respectively, and then we >> had mirrored drives across those different controllers using Windows 2003 >> mirroring. When we rebooted, the corruption of the Dynamic volume >> information resulted in ALL EIGHT drives effectively disappearing and >> going "offline". So while the benefit of Dynamic volumes carrying >> around information about other volumes on each volume has its advantages, >> the downside of this system now becomes very clear to me. If you hit on >> any bug that writes the Dynamic volume information incorrectly, you are >> going to lose EVERYTHING on that system that is Dynamic! >> >> We are in the process of recovering by hacking volume structures to >> convert the Dynamic back to Simple volumes, and that so far seems to be >> going the right direction. >> >> Can someone explain to me under what scenarios this kind of dramatic >> corruption of Dynamic volume structures can take place? If I have a >> loose end in my hardware, I need to know what possibilities to chase. I >> didn't have a good backup of this system since it was just being built >> up, and losing it would have been a complete catastrophe. >> >> -- >> Will >> > >
Guest Will Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com.oz> wrote in message news:O3Ab4dubIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Try to separate the boot process from the Windows startup process, > by booting the machine with a Windows boot diskette. Format a I AM able to boot the system using a Windows boot diskette. So what does that suggest and what is further correction required to allow boot without floppy? -- Will > "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message > news:gq-dnewMEsqNbC7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... > > In attempting to recover the boot device from our failure of dynamic > > disks, we did these steps: > > > > 1) Converted the boot volume from Dynamic to Simple using DSKPROBE from > > inside ERD Commander 2005. > > 2) Made the Simple partition Active, probably from Disk Management in ERD > > Commander 2005. > > 3) Ran chkdsk /r from the Windows 2003 recovery console. > > 4) Ran Fixboot from recovery console > > 5) Ran FixMBR from recovery console > > > > In spite of all of these steps, any attempt to boot the from the system > > volume gets: > > > > "Error Loading Operating System" > > > > I normally associate that message with a BIOS configuration problem or a > > hard drive cylinder mapping issue. I am not finding the problem in our > > case. Can someone give me more detail about this error and how to > > overcome it? > > > > Would an incorrect disk number inside of BOOT.INI ever cause this error? > > > > -- > > Will > > > > > > "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message > > news:qZCdnVi46_lsWi7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... > >>I had a really disappointing event take place today with a critical system > >>that runs Windows 2003 32-bit. Effectively *all* of the dynamic disk > >>structures were corrupted, even though we were not working on them at the > >>time of the reboot. Upon reboot the system gives some brief message > >>about the disk being corrupt, and the Windows 2003 boot sequence never > >>starts. Looking at all of the drives inside the Disk Management utility in > >>Microsoft's ERD Commander Boot CD, the Dynamic volumes show in the state > >>"Offline". A Google search seems to suggest that Dynamic volumes in an > >>offline state normally means the Dynamic volume information is corrupt and > >>cannot be loaded. > >> > >> What is particularly horrifying to me is we have two separate hardware > >> RAID controllers with three and five volumes respectively, and then we > >> had mirrored drives across those different controllers using Windows 2003 > >> mirroring. When we rebooted, the corruption of the Dynamic volume > >> information resulted in ALL EIGHT drives effectively disappearing and > >> going "offline". So while the benefit of Dynamic volumes carrying > >> around information about other volumes on each volume has its advantages, > >> the downside of this system now becomes very clear to me. If you hit on > >> any bug that writes the Dynamic volume information incorrectly, you are > >> going to lose EVERYTHING on that system that is Dynamic! > >> > >> We are in the process of recovering by hacking volume structures to > >> convert the Dynamic back to Simple volumes, and that so far seems to be > >> going the right direction. > >> > >> Can someone explain to me under what scenarios this kind of dramatic > >> corruption of Dynamic volume structures can take place? If I have a > >> loose end in my hardware, I need to know what possibilities to chase. I > >> didn't have a good backup of this system since it was just being built > >> up, and losing it would have been a complete catastrophe. > >> > >> -- > >> Will
Guest Pegasus \(MVP\) Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks Congratulations! This proves that there is nothing wrong with Windows and that the problem lies with the boot environment. I would now launch diskmgmt.msc and make sure that the boot partition is marked "active". "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message news:L-6dnaUCYOIOOSnanZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@giganews.com... > "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com.oz> wrote in message > news:O3Ab4dubIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Try to separate the boot process from the Windows startup process, >> by booting the machine with a Windows boot diskette. Format a > > I AM able to boot the system using a Windows boot diskette. So what does > that suggest and what is further correction required to allow boot without > floppy? > > -- > Will > > > >> "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message >> news:gq-dnewMEsqNbC7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... >> > In attempting to recover the boot device from our failure of dynamic >> > disks, we did these steps: >> > >> > 1) Converted the boot volume from Dynamic to Simple using DSKPROBE from >> > inside ERD Commander 2005. >> > 2) Made the Simple partition Active, probably from Disk Management in > ERD >> > Commander 2005. >> > 3) Ran chkdsk /r from the Windows 2003 recovery console. >> > 4) Ran Fixboot from recovery console >> > 5) Ran FixMBR from recovery console >> > >> > In spite of all of these steps, any attempt to boot the from the system >> > volume gets: >> > >> > "Error Loading Operating System" >> > >> > I normally associate that message with a BIOS configuration problem or >> > a >> > hard drive cylinder mapping issue. I am not finding the problem in > our >> > case. Can someone give me more detail about this error and how to >> > overcome it? >> > >> > Would an incorrect disk number inside of BOOT.INI ever cause this >> > error? >> > >> > -- >> > Will >> > >> > >> > "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message >> > news:qZCdnVi46_lsWi7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >>I had a really disappointing event take place today with a critical > system >> >>that runs Windows 2003 32-bit. Effectively *all* of the dynamic disk >> >>structures were corrupted, even though we were not working on them at > the >> >>time of the reboot. Upon reboot the system gives some brief message >> >>about the disk being corrupt, and the Windows 2003 boot sequence never >> >>starts. Looking at all of the drives inside the Disk Management utility > in >> >>Microsoft's ERD Commander Boot CD, the Dynamic volumes show in the >> >>state >> >>"Offline". A Google search seems to suggest that Dynamic volumes in > an >> >>offline state normally means the Dynamic volume information is corrupt > and >> >>cannot be loaded. >> >> >> >> What is particularly horrifying to me is we have two separate hardware >> >> RAID controllers with three and five volumes respectively, and then we >> >> had mirrored drives across those different controllers using Windows > 2003 >> >> mirroring. When we rebooted, the corruption of the Dynamic volume >> >> information resulted in ALL EIGHT drives effectively disappearing and >> >> going "offline". So while the benefit of Dynamic volumes carrying >> >> around information about other volumes on each volume has its > advantages, >> >> the downside of this system now becomes very clear to me. If you hit > on >> >> any bug that writes the Dynamic volume information incorrectly, you >> >> are >> >> going to lose EVERYTHING on that system that is Dynamic! >> >> >> >> We are in the process of recovering by hacking volume structures to >> >> convert the Dynamic back to Simple volumes, and that so far seems to >> >> be >> >> going the right direction. >> >> >> >> Can someone explain to me under what scenarios this kind of dramatic >> >> corruption of Dynamic volume structures can take place? If I have a >> >> loose end in my hardware, I need to know what possibilities to chase. > I >> >> didn't have a good backup of this system since it was just being built >> >> up, and losing it would have been a complete catastrophe. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Will > >
Guest Pegasus \(MVP\) Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message news:fMednVwUeIbpISnanZ2dnUVZ_rSrnZ2d@giganews.com... > "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com.oz> wrote in message > news:OPig3O1bIHA.6024@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Congratulations! This proves that there is nothing wrong with >> Windows and that the problem lies with the boot environment. >> I would now launch diskmgmt.msc and make sure that the boot >> partition is marked "active". > > Partition was definitely active, and I had checked for that per my > procedure > posted below. > > Other possible causes for the hardware to not be able to bootstrap? > How > can I investigate that at a hardware level? > > Microsoft should create some special version of a boot floppy (startup > option?) that tells the user how the hardware looks for the BIOS and > reports > errors on possible mismatch between what it needs to see and what it > actually sees. > > You could also report with such a utility the more obvious conditions, > like > a partition not marked Active. > > -- > Will I suspect that the tools you used when converting your damaged partition, altered something that is essential for the boot-up process. What it is I have no idea. I can now think of these options: a) Keep booting off the FDD. b) Make a bootable CD and keep booting off it. c) Partition and format a spare disk on some ***other*** machine. d) Boot your machine with a Bart PE boot CD. Now use robocopy.exe to copy the old disk to the new disk, then test the new disk. Do NOT boot the machine with both disks connected! Instead performing the robocopy process under a Bart PE boot, you could perform it while both disks are connected as slaves to some other machine. If the new disk works then you could format the system partition on the old disk and restore its content from the new disk. By the way, what's happened to the date & time on your posting computer. A leap into the future?
Guest Will Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com.oz> wrote in message news:OPig3O1bIHA.6024@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Congratulations! This proves that there is nothing wrong with > Windows and that the problem lies with the boot environment. > I would now launch diskmgmt.msc and make sure that the boot > partition is marked "active". Partition was definitely active, and I had checked for that per my procedure posted below. Other possible causes for the hardware to not be able to bootstrap? How can I investigate that at a hardware level? Microsoft should create some special version of a boot floppy (startup option?) that tells the user how the hardware looks for the BIOS and reports errors on possible mismatch between what it needs to see and what it actually sees. You could also report with such a utility the more obvious conditions, like a partition not marked Active. -- Will > "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message > news:L-6dnaUCYOIOOSnanZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com.oz> wrote in message > > news:O3Ab4dubIHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > >> Try to separate the boot process from the Windows startup process, > >> by booting the machine with a Windows boot diskette. Format a > > > > I AM able to boot the system using a Windows boot diskette. So what does > > that suggest and what is further correction required to allow boot without > > floppy? > > > > -- > > Will > > > > > > > >> "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message > >> news:gq-dnewMEsqNbC7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... > >> > In attempting to recover the boot device from our failure of dynamic > >> > disks, we did these steps: > >> > > >> > 1) Converted the boot volume from Dynamic to Simple using DSKPROBE from > >> > inside ERD Commander 2005. > >> > 2) Made the Simple partition Active, probably from Disk Management in > > ERD > >> > Commander 2005. > >> > 3) Ran chkdsk /r from the Windows 2003 recovery console. > >> > 4) Ran Fixboot from recovery console > >> > 5) Ran FixMBR from recovery console > >> > > >> > In spite of all of these steps, any attempt to boot the from the system > >> > volume gets: > >> > > >> > "Error Loading Operating System" > >> > > >> > I normally associate that message with a BIOS configuration problem or > >> > a > >> > hard drive cylinder mapping issue. I am not finding the problem in > > our > >> > case. Can someone give me more detail about this error and how to > >> > overcome it? > >> > > >> > Would an incorrect disk number inside of BOOT.INI ever cause this > >> > error? > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Will > >> > > >> > > >> > "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message > >> > news:qZCdnVi46_lsWi7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... > >> >>I had a really disappointing event take place today with a critical > > system > >> >>that runs Windows 2003 32-bit. Effectively *all* of the dynamic disk > >> >>structures were corrupted, even though we were not working on them at > > the > >> >>time of the reboot. Upon reboot the system gives some brief message > >> >>about the disk being corrupt, and the Windows 2003 boot sequence never > >> >>starts. Looking at all of the drives inside the Disk Management utility > > in > >> >>Microsoft's ERD Commander Boot CD, the Dynamic volumes show in the > >> >>state > >> >>"Offline". A Google search seems to suggest that Dynamic volumes in > > an > >> >>offline state normally means the Dynamic volume information is corrupt > > and > >> >>cannot be loaded. > >> >> > >> >> What is particularly horrifying to me is we have two separate hardware > >> >> RAID controllers with three and five volumes respectively, and then we > >> >> had mirrored drives across those different controllers using Windows > > 2003 > >> >> mirroring. When we rebooted, the corruption of the Dynamic volume > >> >> information resulted in ALL EIGHT drives effectively disappearing and > >> >> going "offline". So while the benefit of Dynamic volumes carrying > >> >> around information about other volumes on each volume has its > > advantages, > >> >> the downside of this system now becomes very clear to me. If you hit > > on > >> >> any bug that writes the Dynamic volume information incorrectly, you > >> >> are > >> >> going to lose EVERYTHING on that system that is Dynamic! > >> >> > >> >> We are in the process of recovering by hacking volume structures to > >> >> convert the Dynamic back to Simple volumes, and that so far seems to > >> >> be > >> >> going the right direction. > >> >> > >> >> Can someone explain to me under what scenarios this kind of dramatic > >> >> corruption of Dynamic volume structures can take place? If I have a > >> >> loose end in my hardware, I need to know what possibilities to chase. > > I > >> >> didn't have a good backup of this system since it was just being built > >> >> up, and losing it would have been a complete catastrophe. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Will > > > > > >
Guest Will Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com.oz> wrote in message news:Osxifn1bIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > > "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message > news:fMednVwUeIbpISnanZ2dnUVZ_rSrnZ2d@giganews.com... >> "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com.oz> wrote in message >> news:OPig3O1bIHA.6024@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Congratulations! This proves that there is nothing wrong with >>> Windows and that the problem lies with the boot environment. >>> I would now launch diskmgmt.msc and make sure that the boot >>> partition is marked "active". >> >> Partition was definitely active, and I had checked for that per my >> procedure >> posted below. >> >> Other possible causes for the hardware to not be able to bootstrap? How >> can I investigate that at a hardware level? >> >> Microsoft should create some special version of a boot floppy (startup >> option?) that tells the user how the hardware looks for the BIOS and >> reports >> errors on possible mismatch between what it needs to see and what it >> actually sees. >> >> You could also report with such a utility the more obvious conditions, >> like >> a partition not marked Active. >> >> -- >> Will > > I suspect that the tools you used when converting your damaged > partition, altered something that is essential for the boot-up process. Probably this is not the case, because we were getting the "Error Loading OS" boot time message even before we made any change to the Dynamic boot volume. > What it is I have no idea. I can now think of these options: > a) Keep booting off the FDD. > b) Make a bootable CD and keep booting off it. > c) Partition and format a spare disk on some ***other*** machine. > d) Boot your machine with a Bart PE boot CD. Now use robocopy.exe > to copy the old disk to the new disk, then test the new disk. Do NOT > boot the machine with both disks connected! > > Instead performing the robocopy process under a Bart PE boot, you > could perform it while both disks are connected as slaves to some > other machine. > > If the new disk works then you could format the system partition on > the old disk and restore its content from the new disk. Sounds like fun :) I'm still thinking that somehow the computer BIOS is not finding the drive it wants or that the geometry somehow doesn't match what it wants to see. > By the way, what's happened to the date & time on your posting > computer. A leap into the future? The posting time of 3:10p is approximately when I remember doing the post. Was I an hour ahead of clock? Sounds like a daylight savings time error on the posting computer.... -- Will
Guest Will Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks Not sure if this is part of our problem, but the controller reports a different SCSI ID ordering of volumes than does the ERD Commander 2005 boot environment. The boot volume is of course SCSI ID=0 as reported by the controller. Inside of ERD Commander, it is reported as the highest SCSI ID. In fact, all of our drives have an inverted SCSI ID ordering as seen by ERD Commander. I'm not sure how that is even possible if Windows is simply reporting its drive numbers as a reflection of the hardware drive ID order. What would such reordering of drives suggest, and is there a way to force a reset of that mapping? -- Will "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com.oz> wrote in message news:Osxifn1bIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message > news:fMednVwUeIbpISnanZ2dnUVZ_rSrnZ2d@giganews.com... >> "Pegasus (MVP)" <I.can@fly.com.oz> wrote in message >> news:OPig3O1bIHA.6024@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Congratulations! This proves that there is nothing wrong with >>> Windows and that the problem lies with the boot environment. >>> I would now launch diskmgmt.msc and make sure that the boot >>> partition is marked "active". >> >> Partition was definitely active, and I had checked for that per my >> procedure >> posted below. >> >> Other possible causes for the hardware to not be able to bootstrap? How >> can I investigate that at a hardware level? >> >> Microsoft should create some special version of a boot floppy (startup >> option?) that tells the user how the hardware looks for the BIOS and >> reports >> errors on possible mismatch between what it needs to see and what it >> actually sees. >> >> You could also report with such a utility the more obvious conditions, >> like >> a partition not marked Active. >> >> -- >> Will > > I suspect that the tools you used when converting your damaged > partition, altered something that is essential for the boot-up process. > What it is I have no idea. I can now think of these options: > a) Keep booting off the FDD. > b) Make a bootable CD and keep booting off it. > c) Partition and format a spare disk on some ***other*** machine. > d) Boot your machine with a Bart PE boot CD. Now use robocopy.exe > to copy the old disk to the new disk, then test the new disk. Do NOT > boot the machine with both disks connected! > > Instead performing the robocopy process under a Bart PE boot, you > could perform it while both disks are connected as slaves to some > other machine. > > If the new disk works then you could format the system partition on > the old disk and restore its content from the new disk. > > By the way, what's happened to the date & time on your posting > computer. A leap into the future? >
Guest Edwin vMierlo [MVP] Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks This is not solving your problem, but a little advice The Dynamic disk implementation in Windows will write an LDM database header to each and every dynamic disk on the same system. This means that if for some reason this data (in a private region of the disk) gets corrupted, it could potentially affect all dynamic disks on your system. Exactly as you describe in your post. Here is my take on dynamic disks : <opinion> Practically there should only be 1 reason that you use dynamic disk, and that is to create a spanned volume over 2TB. And even this reason is now decreased in priority by the support of GPT disks who support partition sizes over 2TB. Any other reason would be fround upon if you have hardware raid, either internally or in a SAN. </opinion> There is an unfounded misconception about dynamic disk versus basic disk, and that is "that it has a performance gain". No people, it has not, and although "dynamic disk" sounds better than "basic disk" it has nothing to do with performance. So, if you are using dynamic disk, for the right reasons, for your "data" disks, then ensure your boot and system partitions are on basic disk. Microsoft even recommends this for SAN setups, boot/system/internal-disks on basic when using dynamic on your SAN. from this article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/816307 : "If you decide to use dynamic disks and you have both locally attached storage (IDE-based storage or Small Computer System Interface [sCSI]-based storage) and storage that is located on a storage area network (SAN), consider the following recommendations, depending on your situation: . Use dynamic disks on only the SAN storage drives and keep the locally attached storage as basic disks. -or- . Use basic disks on the SAN storage drives and configure the locally attached storage as dynamic disks." You can apply the same logic to a server with only internal disk controllers, your data on dynamic, then your boot/system should be basic. Again, please use dynamic disks for the right (technical) reasons, HTH, Edwin. "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message news:qZCdnVi46_lsWi7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... > I had a really disappointing event take place today with a critical system > that runs Windows 2003 32-bit. Effectively *all* of the dynamic disk > structures were corrupted, even though we were not working on them at the > time of the reboot. Upon reboot the system gives some brief message about > the disk being corrupt, and the Windows 2003 boot sequence never starts. > Looking at all of the drives inside the Disk Management utility in > Microsoft's ERD Commander Boot CD, the Dynamic volumes show in the state > "Offline". A Google search seems to suggest that Dynamic volumes in an > offline state normally means the Dynamic volume information is corrupt and > cannot be loaded. > > What is particularly horrifying to me is we have two separate hardware RAID > controllers with three and five volumes respectively, and then we had > mirrored drives across those different controllers using Windows 2003 > mirroring. When we rebooted, the corruption of the Dynamic volume > information resulted in ALL EIGHT drives effectively disappearing and going > "offline". So while the benefit of Dynamic volumes carrying around > information about other volumes on each volume has its advantages, the > downside of this system now becomes very clear to me. If you hit on any > bug that writes the Dynamic volume information incorrectly, you are going to > lose EVERYTHING on that system that is Dynamic! > > We are in the process of recovering by hacking volume structures to convert > the Dynamic back to Simple volumes, and that so far seems to be going the > right direction. > > Can someone explain to me under what scenarios this kind of dramatic > corruption of Dynamic volume structures can take place? If I have a loose > end in my hardware, I need to know what possibilities to chase. I didn't > have a good backup of this system since it was just being built up, and > losing it would have been a complete catastrophe. > > -- > Will > >
Guest Will Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 Re: Catastrophic Corruption of Dynamic Disks Well, after we had this bad experience with Dynamic Disk corruption taking out every single one of eight volumes on the system, I certainly understand why you are not eager to use them for your own applications. But I have a slightly different take on this. Dynamic disks have been the only way we have found to make a consistent disk image of the boot volume that does not corrupt or miss backing up the registry files while they are in use by the OS. Microsoft (and Veritas, since the technology is OEM from them) have some kind of very low level notification technology there when you "break" a dynamic mirror to force the OS to write out consistent versions of the registry files. I have many times broken a mirror, removed the drive from the system, and then later used that drive to immediately recover a crashed boot volume. It's extremely reliable technology, and extremely good at what it does. After this experience losing all of our Dynamic volumes, I am keen on the idea that we should take our dynamic disk backups, then find a way to disconnect the storage in our script and power off the backed up drives. That way if we corrupt the dynamic disk structures, the backups are offline and intact and can be used for immediate recovery while the dynamic disks are manually recovered. Using Symantec Storage Foundation for Windows Basic (which is free), you get some enhancements to Dynamic Disks, most notably the ability to script mirroring and breaking off of drives. Our nightly backups of the host that runs virtual machines looks something like this: 1) Resynchronize the dynamic volumes 2) Stop all virtual machines (to guarantee consistent disk images of the virtual machines) 3) Break off the dynamic volume 4) Restart all VMs 5) Backup the "broken" mirror to tape Step 3 only takes about 10 minutes for about 300 MB, so our virtual machines only have about 10 minutes of downtime to ensure consistent images are available for backup to tape later on. After this bad experience, I would like to modify the above with: 0) Turn on the drive array with the backup drives programmatically and wait for it to signal ready .... 6) Flush the broken mirror to disk. 7) Remove the drive letter from the broken mirror. 8) Power off the drive array programmatically. To do 0) and 8), I need to find a PDU that comes with a command line interface that works under Windows. I don't suppose you know of one? -- Will "Edwin vMierlo [MVP]" <EdwinvMierlo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:uy58pd8bIHA.5208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > This is not solving your problem, but a little advice > > The Dynamic disk implementation in Windows will write an LDM database > header > to each and every dynamic disk on the same system. This means that if for > some reason this data (in a private region of the disk) gets corrupted, it > could potentially affect all dynamic disks on your system. Exactly as you > describe in your post. > > Here is my take on dynamic disks : > > <opinion> > Practically there should only be 1 reason that you use dynamic disk, and > that is to create a spanned volume over 2TB. And even this reason is now > decreased in priority by the support of GPT disks who support partition > sizes over 2TB. > Any other reason would be fround upon if you have hardware raid, either > internally or in a SAN. > </opinion> > > There is an unfounded misconception about dynamic disk versus basic disk, > and that is "that it has a performance gain". No people, it has not, and > although "dynamic disk" sounds better than "basic disk" it has nothing to > do > with performance. > > So, if you are using dynamic disk, for the right reasons, for your "data" > disks, then ensure your boot and system partitions are on basic disk. > Microsoft even recommends this for SAN setups, boot/system/internal-disks > on > basic when using dynamic on your SAN. > > from this article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/816307 : > > "If you decide to use dynamic disks and you have both locally attached > storage (IDE-based storage or Small Computer System Interface [sCSI]-based > storage) and storage that is located on a storage area network (SAN), > consider the following recommendations, depending on your situation: > > . Use dynamic disks on only the SAN storage drives and keep the > locally attached storage as basic disks. > > -or- > . Use basic disks on the SAN storage drives and configure the locally > attached storage as dynamic disks." > > > You can apply the same logic to a server with only internal disk > controllers, your data on dynamic, then your boot/system should be basic. > > Again, please use dynamic disks for the right (technical) reasons, > HTH, > Edwin. > > > > > "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> wrote in message > news:qZCdnVi46_lsWi7anZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@giganews.com... >> I had a really disappointing event take place today with a critical >> system >> that runs Windows 2003 32-bit. Effectively *all* of the dynamic disk >> structures were corrupted, even though we were not working on them at the >> time of the reboot. Upon reboot the system gives some brief message > about >> the disk being corrupt, and the Windows 2003 boot sequence never starts. >> Looking at all of the drives inside the Disk Management utility in >> Microsoft's ERD Commander Boot CD, the Dynamic volumes show in the state >> "Offline". A Google search seems to suggest that Dynamic volumes in an >> offline state normally means the Dynamic volume information is corrupt >> and >> cannot be loaded. >> >> What is particularly horrifying to me is we have two separate hardware > RAID >> controllers with three and five volumes respectively, and then we had >> mirrored drives across those different controllers using Windows 2003 >> mirroring. When we rebooted, the corruption of the Dynamic volume >> information resulted in ALL EIGHT drives effectively disappearing and > going >> "offline". So while the benefit of Dynamic volumes carrying around >> information about other volumes on each volume has its advantages, the >> downside of this system now becomes very clear to me. If you hit on any >> bug that writes the Dynamic volume information incorrectly, you are going > to >> lose EVERYTHING on that system that is Dynamic! >> >> We are in the process of recovering by hacking volume structures to > convert >> the Dynamic back to Simple volumes, and that so far seems to be going the >> right direction. >> >> Can someone explain to me under what scenarios this kind of dramatic >> corruption of Dynamic volume structures can take place? If I have a > loose >> end in my hardware, I need to know what possibilities to chase. I >> didn't >> have a good backup of this system since it was just being built up, and >> losing it would have been a complete catastrophe. >> >> -- >> Will >> >> > >
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