RAM Problem

[Newgster]

Hi

can anyone help on this?

 

Ok my daughters pc had 512mb of ram and i wanted to upgrade it so i went to crucial.co.uk dowloaded and run their memory scanner it told me that i had 512mb pc2 4200 and it showed what i could purchase.

I purchased a 1gig Stick.

It has arrived, so i went ahead and installed it , but now my pc running xp 32bit

only shows the new ram as installed, i have taken them out swapped them about etc to see if one of my boards slots was damaged but nope they are both fine.

Ive run CPU-Z and it shows:

Slot 1

DDR2

Module size = 512 MB

Max Bandwidth = PC2-4200 (266 MHz)

Manufacturer = Nanya Technology

 

Slot 2

DDR2

Module size 1024 MB

Max Bandwidth = PC2-5300 (333MHz)

Manufacturer = Crucial Technology

 

In belarc advisor it says that slot 1 is actually empty.

Also went back to crucial.co.uk re scanned and it told me i had 1 gig of ram installed in slot 2 and slot 1 was free.

 

I spoke to one of crucials live help people and was told to check the ram to see what density it was by counting the black chips and they are both high density with 8 black chips, the woman was stuck for words and said that most probably my BIOS needs updating or there is a compatability issue.

 

Also in my bios there is no tab that displays memory installed .??

 

I have been told by a pc repair shop that they should work fine together?

They said, even tho Different models/sizes etc the 5300 should down size and run at 4200??

My Motherboard is:

MS-7173 (RC410M-L) Motherboard

 

And here is the scan i did on crucials website, it says i can have max of 2GB RAM

 

http://www.crucial.com/uk/systemscanner/vi...F023B9231D926C3

 

Any help at all to get these 2 modules running together would be great.

 

Thanks

 

Newgster

 

[RandyL]

I believe the crucial scan you linked to will only be available for a limited time so I copied some info from it and posted it below. Note that the green text is mine.

 

We were not able to determine the manufacturer and/or model of your PC, but we were able to complete our scan with information from your motherboard.

 

MS-7173 (RC410M-L) Motherboard (MS or MSI is Micro Star)

 

Currently installed memory

Each memory slot can hold DDR2 PC2-8500,DDR2 PC2-5300,DDR2 PC2-6400 with a maximum of 1GB per slot

 

Maximum Memory Capacity: 2048MB

Currently Installed Memory: 1GBAvailable Memory Slots: 1

Total Memory Slots: 2

Dual Channel Support: No

CPU Manufacturer: GenuineIntel

CPU Family: Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU 3.06GHz Model 4, Stepping 9

CPU Speed: 3052 MHz

 

Q: What memory goes into my computer, and can I mix speeds?

A: DDR2 memory with support for DDR2 PC2-8500,DDR2 PC2-5300,DDR2 PC2-6400 speeds.

 

Q: Do I have to install matching pairs?

 

A: No. No, you can install modules one at a time, and you can mix different densities of modules in your computer. But if your computer supports dual-channel memory configurations, you should install in identical pairs (preferably in kits) for optimal performance

 

Q: Does my computer support dual-channel memory?

 

A: No. Your system does not support dual channel.

 

Q: Does my computer support ECC memory?

 

A: No. Your system does not support ECC. Because ECC and non-ECC modules should not be mixed within a system, install the same type of modules that are already in your system.

[RandyL]

I'm not the expert here but CPU-Z says that your original memory is PC2-4200.

 

Yet crucial says that your motherboard does not support PC2-4200.

 

If I'm not mistaken any new memory should downsize to a lower speed but it might make a difference if your motherboard actually supports that RAM which according to crucial PC2-4200 is not supported on your board.

 

I don't know why your original memory worked by itself but not with the new supported memory but does it work with just the new stick installed and not the old 512?

 

Crucial is noted for being exact on what works and what does not so I would only use exactly what they say is supported and nothing else. According to them the new memory is supported and works. The old is not supported.

 

So to sum it up:

 

Both sticks work by themselves.

Both slots work.

The two do not work together.

Unsupported old memory does not work with new supported memory.

 

I'm thinking that if you follow crucials advice and get two gauranteed supported sticks then they should work just fine together.

 

Now crucial support said there might be a compatability issue. I would go with that.

 

They also said a BIOS update might resolve it. They didn't actually know. And be forwarned if a BIOS update goes wrong your computer is trashed. Not worth taking that chance for only a 512mb stick if you ask me.

 

Like I said at the beginning I'm not an expert on memory so you may want to see if some of our other members or techs have some thoughts. Many know quite a bit about memory issues and such.

[Newgster]

Hi RandyL

Thanks for replying, im kinda thinking of another stick of RAM from crucial might be the best thing to do, as you stated its not worth risking my pc over 512 stick of RAM, ive never done a BIOS update before, although im confident i could do it as im not to bad with pc's, its just that chance if it goes wrong.

 

I just can't understand how they both work on their own but will not run together, the min the 1gig gets put in the 512 becomes unreadable.

 

And crucial saying my motherboard does not support PC2-4200, when that's the stick that it come brand new with from the shop so it must be supported, i just dont get it lol.

 

Hopefully someone will be able to shed a bit of light on this.

 

Again thanks for your help.

 

Regards

Newgster

[RandyL]

I understand what you mean. I wish I could tell you more but perhaps someone else can.

 

All I know is that I only install and mix and match what I know works from what I read is supported.

 

Yes I have installed FASTER memory knowing full well that it's limited to the slower speed of the other stick or the motherboard specs but in your case Crucial says the SLOWER stick is not supported.

 

I can only guess that is the issue.

 

If this is a built computer then the builder may have known the original would work by itself but that does not mean it's gauranteed to be supported with other RAM by the mobo.

 

If this was a brand new name brand computer then I would contact the manufacturer on why they used what they did.

[Dalo Harkin]

All MOBOs have a limit set on the amount of RAM it can physically accept, if your maximum allowed RAM is 1GB then that would account for your issues, but only the manual will tell you that.

If all else fails you are better off with 1GB of slower RAM than 512mb of the speeds you are talking about

 

EDIT - found this on your MOBO Memory• Supports single channel DDR2 533/667, using two 240-pin/1.8V DDR2 DIMMs.

• Supports a maximum memory size up to 2GB

 

If you are comfortable looking in the BIOS then you may have to manually set the voltage for the RAM.

[Newgster]

Hi Dalo Harkin

 

Thanks for the reply.

I have had a look in the BIOS and there is nothing in there regarding to the RAM?

 

There is no settings or anything for the RAM anywhere.

 

I have read other posts saying to adjust things in the BIOS to get RAM working etc.

 

Is there a Specific thing to look for or is it just RAM settings or something similar?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Also i see you live in stockport, im from stalybridge lol...Small world.

 

Anyway, ill end there.

 

Regards

Newsgster

[Dalo Harkin]

Hi,

 

Yes there is a section in the BIOS normally at the VERY top called advanced options there should be some readings like 5-5-5-15 or like that - they are the RAM timings - its numbers like this you are looking for.

They may be set to by SPD which basically means the computer sets the RAM speed for you and under certain circumstances this is not enough such as the RAM voltage, certain RAM needs certain voltage (I would not play with this unless it says on the RAM box or packet what the Voltage should be, it will also have the timings on there)

 

Small world indeed and I was going to buy a house in Staly vegas too at one point :D

[Newgster]

Hi,

 

Ok ive been into BIOS just looking not changed anything, not until you tell me to.

 

In Advanced chipset features there is - A-Link & GPP Configuration [4-1-1-1-1 Mode] but this is grayed out and not editable.

Also there is - DRAM TIMING [Auto]

if i change the DRAM TIMING to manual some more settings become visible these are:

CAS TIMING [Disabled]

RAS# To CAS# DELAY (TRCD) [6 Clocks]

RAS# PRECHARGE TIME (TRP) (5 Clocks)

CYCLE TIME (TRAS) [14 Clocks]

 

A-Link & GPP Configuration [4-1-1-1-1 Mode] still grayed out and not editable.

 

Staly Vegas lol everyone knows Stalybridge as Staly Vegas... i like it here , im tucked away under the pennines where its nice and quiet.

 

Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Newgster

[Dalo Harkin]

Yes the DRAM timings are what you are after - it will tell you the exact timings that are needed on the RAM stick itself (on a sticker) or on the box they came in.

 

If you need help then let me know :)

[Newgster]

Hi Dalo Harkin

 

I think ill ask for your help here lol.

ive got the older 512 stick in my hands and there is 2 stickers one small and one large.

Small sticker says:

elixer

M2Y51264TU88AOB-37B

512MB 1Rx8

PC2-4200-444-12-A1 (is it something in this line?)

 

Ill switch off now and get the other info from the new 1GB stick from crucial.

 

Cheers

 

Newgster

[Newgster]

Hi,

 

On The Crucial Stick it says:

CRUCIAL

CT12864AA667.M8FJ3

IGB 240-PIN DIMM 128Mx64 DDR2

PC2-5300 JNBUFF

 

there is nothing written on the crucial box its just clear see through plastic with no sticker or nothing.

and nothing in the leaflet aswell.

Not sure if i have provided the correct info, if not i apologise.

 

I'll leave it there.

 

Thanks for your help,

Regards,

 

Newgster

[Dalo Harkin]

Hi Dalo Harkin

 

I think ill ask for your help here lol.

ive got the older 512 stick in my hands and there is 2 stickers one small and one large.

Small sticker says:

elixer

M2Y51264TU88AOB-37B

512MB 1Rx8

PC2-4200-444-12-A1 (is it something in this line?)

 

Ill switch off now and get the other info from the new 1GB stick from crucial.

 

Cheers

 

Newgster

 

Yes its the 4-4-4-12 which are the timings, change the settings in the BIOS to reflect the 4-4-4-12, it should boot and we will take it from there

Edited December 17, 2009 by Dalo Harkin

[Newgster]

RAS# To CAS# DELAY (TRCD) [6 Clocks]

RAS# PRECHARGE TIME (TRP) (5 Clocks)

CYCLE TIME (TRAS) [14 Clocks]

 

 

Hi is it the clock ones im changing? so change them to 4 from 5 &6 etc? and where 14 is in cycle time i change to 12?

 

thats all that i can edit.

 

Cheers for your help

 

Newgster

[Dalo Harkin]

*CL: CAS Latency. The time it takes between a command having been sent to the memory and when it begins to reply to it. It is the time it takes between the processor asking for some data from the memory and it returning it.

 

*tRCD: RAS to CAS Delay. The time it takes between the activation of the line (RAS) and the column (CAS) where the data are stored in the matrix.

 

*tRP: RAS Precharge. The time it takes between disabling the access to a line of data and the begin of the access the another line of data.

 

*tRAS: Active to Precharge Delay. How long the memory has to wait until the next access to the memory can be initiated.

 

*CMD: Command Rate. The time it takes between the memory chip having been activated and when the first command may be sent to the memory. Sometimes this value is not informed. It usually is T1 (1 clock cycle) or T2 (2 clock cycles).

 

From Top to bottom yours should be

*4-*4-*4-*12 *T1

Edited December 18, 2009 by Dalo Harkin

[Newgster]

Hi,

 

Ok i have been into BIOS and changed it to 4-4-4-12 and then inserted the 512 stick and it is still not recognized, ive also swapped them about in the slots just incase but still not recognized?

 

Shall i just put a hammer to the 512 lol

 

Anymore suggestions?

 

Much appreciated

 

Newgster

[RandyL]

Forgive me if I'm wrong here but this may be futile.

 

If I'm not mistaken you got a new 1Gb stick that according to crucial is the right one and fully supported by your mobo.

 

Your old one was not even supposed to be supported by your mobo but it did work by itself.

 

Your new one works by itself.

 

So your old stick which is not fully compatable with your mobo does not work in conjunction with a fully compatable stick.

 

If both work by themselves but not with each other and the original does not appear to be compatable with the mobo then why bother?

 

Stay with the new supported RAM. It's twice your original size. If you need more get the the right one.

 

Although tinkering can work wonders in some cases we have a saying over here.

 

You can't make a silk purse out of a cows ears.

 

My point is as before. Would it not be best to use the supported memory?

 

Just my thoughts.