System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

February 24, 2008

We've covered some of the relative advantages and disadvantages of using

System Restore and ERUNT here before, but I have a specific question

relating to the usage of System Restore:

Since System Restore tries to keeps track of file and registry *changes* to

your system, and since these changes can really add up, the more you do

*between restore points* (especially for a large program), here is my

question:

Let's suppose you first create a restore point. And then you install a

program you want to try out. And then you decide you don't want that

program, and want to uninstall it *and* have the system returned to as clean

a state as it was before the installation (which means restoring the

previous registry, too, since any program "uninstallation" routines often

leave some things behind there).

So, is it really better to first uninstall the program *before* running

System Restore to the previous set point, OR to just leave the program

installed, and then let System Restore effectively "uninstall" it? In the

latter case, System Restore simply has to reverse *just the changes made

since installation*, and NOT the changes compounded by the original

installation and uninstallation scenario (and that's a lot more total

changes to accurately keep track of to try to reverse - and it may

overburden (and disable) System Restore.

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>So, is it really better to first uninstall the program *before* running

>System Restore to the previous set point, OR to just leave the program

>installed, and then let System Restore effectively "uninstall" it?

I think the answer should be obvious: uninstall the program first.

When did you first get diagnosed as an obsessive-compulsive?

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Uncle Grumpy wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>> So, is it really better to first uninstall the program *before* running

>> System Restore to the previous set point, OR to just leave the program

>> installed, and then let System Restore effectively "uninstall" it?

>

> I think the answer should be obvious: uninstall the program first.

Not quite as obvious as it may seem, if you look a bit further. But yes,

that's the way I've been doing it, up to now.

Then again, there have been those times when System Restore came back and

said "unable to restore your restore point".

I'm sure that's never happened to you, but then again, what's new.

> When did you first get diagnosed as an obsessive-compulsive?

Not really. I've just been in the field a bit longer than you have.

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> When did you first get diagnosed as an obsessive-compulsive?

>

>Not really. I've just been in the field a bit longer than you have.

While that may be true, your questions don't support that statement.

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> I think the answer should be obvious: uninstall the program first.

>

>Not quite as obvious as it may seem, if you look a bit further. But yes,

>that's the way I've been doing it, up to now.

>

>Then again, there have been those times when System Restore came back and

>said "unable to restore your restore point".

Has nothing to do with uninstalling a program.

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Uncle Grumpy wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>>> I think the answer should be obvious: uninstall the program first.

>>

>> Not quite as obvious as it may seem, if you look a bit further. But

>> yes,

>> that's the way I've been doing it, up to now.

>>

>> Then again, there have been those times when System Restore came back and

>> said "unable to restore your restore point".

>

> Has nothing to do with uninstalling a program.

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Uncle Grumpy wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>>> I think the answer should be obvious: uninstall the program first.

>>

>> Not quite as obvious as it may seem, if you look a bit further. But

>> yes,

>> that's the way I've been doing it, up to now.

>>

>> Then again, there have been those times when System Restore came back and

>> said "unable to restore your restore point".

>

> Has nothing to do with uninstalling a program.

It might, if System Restore was unable to *successfully* keep track of all

the changes incurred during the uninstallation of a large program.

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Uncle Grumpy wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>>> When did you first get diagnosed as an obsessive-compulsive?

>>

>> Not really. I've just been in the field a bit longer than you have.

>

> While that may be true, your questions don't support that statement.

Not may be, is. But some people choose to sit out there on the

bleachers....

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>

Smooth.

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> Has nothing to do with uninstalling a program.

>

>It might, if System Restore was unable to *successfully* keep track of all

>the changes incurred during the uninstallation of a large program.

<sigh>

System Restore does NOT keep track of program

installation/uninstallation per se.

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Uncle Grumpy wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>>> Has nothing to do with uninstalling a program.

>>

>> It might, if System Restore was unable to *successfully* keep track of

>> all

>> the system changes incurred during the uninstallation of a large program.

>

> <sigh>

>

> System Restore does NOT keep track of program installation/uninstallation

> per se.

You're still missing the point. How's the view up there in the

bleachers?

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

I don't think Grumpy is missing the point. The OP is wondering if

everything that gets installed just disappears if you restore back before

the installation. It doesn't. SR reverses things like settings and

registry entries but it does not remove software. It just unregisters it.

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:%23KX9rfzdIHA.288@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Uncle Grumpy wrote:

>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>

>>>> Has nothing to do with uninstalling a program.

>>>

>>> It might, if System Restore was unable to *successfully* keep track of

>>> all

>>> the system changes incurred during the uninstallation of a large

>>> program.

>>

>> <sigh>

>>

>> System Restore does NOT keep track of program installation/uninstallation

>> per se.

>

> You're still missing the point. How's the view up there in the

> bleachers?

>

February 24, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote:

>I don't think Grumpy is missing the point.

Saying that I'm "missing the point" is Bill's ad-hominem way of

side-stepping having to reply what he either knows is correct, or what

he has no clue about.

February 25, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Uncle Grumpy wrote:

> "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote:

>

>> I don't think Grumpy is missing the point.

>

> Saying that I'm "missing the point" is Bill's ad-hominem way of

> side-stepping having to reply what he either knows is correct, or what

> he has no clue about.

Right - like you do. Ad hominems? I thought that was your specialty.

February 25, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Colin Barnhorst wrote:

> I don't think Grumpy is missing the point.

Yes he is - missing part of it.

> The OP is wondering if

> everything that gets installed just disappears if you restore back before

> the installation. It doesn't. SR reverses things like settings and

> registry entries but it does not remove software.

It can - and *does* - remove files, and not JUST the system files.

Perhaps you haven't experienced that, but I certainly have.

> It just unregisters it.

No, but that is not ALL System Restore does.

And I never stated that it erased all its files, either, for that matter.

Also, I never stated that it was *equivalent to* "uninstalling" the program,

but the result can be similar, of course (since as far as the previous

registry is concerned, the program never was installed, even though that

program's files (or at least many of them) still exist in its Program Files

directory.

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:%23KX9rfzdIHA.288@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> Uncle Grumpy wrote:

>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>>

>>>>> Has nothing to do with uninstalling a program.

>>>>

>>>> It might, if System Restore was unable to *successfully* keep track of

>>>> all

>>>> the system changes incurred during the uninstallation of a large

>>>> program.

>>>

>>> <sigh>

>>>

>>> System Restore does NOT keep track of program

>>> installation/uninstallation

>>> per se.

>>

>> You're still missing the point. How's the view up there in the

>> bleachers?

February 25, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Bill in Co. wrote:

> We've covered some of the relative advantages and disadvantages of

> using System Restore and ERUNT here before, but I have a specific

> question relating to the usage of System Restore:

>

> Since System Restore tries to keeps track of file and registry

> *changes* to your system, and since these changes can really add up,

> the more you do *between restore points* (especially for a large

> program), here is my question:

>

> Let's suppose you first create a restore point. And then you

> install a program you want to try out. And then you decide you

> don't want that program, and want to uninstall it *and* have the

> system returned to as clean a state as it was before the installation

> (which means restoring the previous registry, too, since any program

> "uninstallation" routines often leave some things behind there).

>

> So, is it really better to first uninstall the program *before*

> running System Restore to the previous set point, OR to just leave

> the program installed, and then let System Restore effectively

> "uninstall" it? In the latter case, System Restore simply has to

> reverse *just the changes made since installation*, and NOT the

> changes compounded by the original installation and uninstallation

> scenario (and that's a lot more total changes to accurately keep

> track of to try to reverse - and it may overburden (and disable)

> System Restore.

You can find out for yourself by conducting the following experiment:

1. Create a restore point.

2. Install your program.

3. Reboot and perform a System Restore to the point you created before

the installation (remember that you can always undo a System Restore).

What is the result?

Note: If you want to be really, really safe, create an image of your

hard drive using Acronis True Image before your experiment.

Personally, I would just uninstall the program and be done with it.

There is only a tiny chance that any leftover registry entries after

uninstalling a program would cause an issue. I suppose for your

experiment, you would need to find a program that when uninstalled

*will* predictably cause problems. Then you could try it both ways (here

is where your image would come in handy) and compare.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that installing and uninstalling a program would

never overburden or disable System Restore!

February 25, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Daave wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>> We've covered some of the relative advantages and disadvantages of

>> using System Restore and ERUNT here before, but I have a specific

>> question relating to the usage of System Restore:

>>

>> Since System Restore tries to keeps track of file and registry

>> *changes* to your system, and since these changes can really add up,

>> the more you do *between restore points* (especially for a large

>> program), here is my question:

>>

>> Let's suppose you first create a restore point. And then you

>> install a program you want to try out. And then you decide you

>> don't want that program, and want to uninstall it *and* have the

>> system returned to as clean a state as it was before the installation

>> (which means restoring the previous registry, too, since any program

>> "uninstallation" routines often leave some things behind there).

>>

>> So, is it really better to first uninstall the program *before*

>> running System Restore to the previous set point, OR to just leave

>> the program installed, and then let System Restore effectively

>> "uninstall" it? In the latter case, System Restore simply has to

>> reverse *just the changes made since installation*, and NOT the

>> changes compounded by the original installation and uninstallation

>> scenario (and that's a lot more total changes to accurately keep

>> track of to try to reverse - and it may overburden (and disable)

>> System Restore.

>

> You can find out for yourself by conducting the following experiment:

>

> 1. Create a restore point.

>

> 2. Install your program.

>

> 3. Reboot and perform a System Restore to the point you created before

> the installation (remember that you can always undo a System Restore).

>

> What is the result?

>

> Note: If you want to be really, really safe, create an image of your

> hard drive using Acronis True Image before your experiment.

>

> Personally, I would just uninstall the program and be done with it.

> There is only a tiny chance that any leftover registry entries after

> uninstalling a program would cause an issue.

Yes, and that is generally the case. (however, there have been a few

exceptions)

> I suppose for your

> experiment, you would need to find a program that when uninstalled

> *will* predictably cause problems. Then you could try it both ways (here

> is where your image would come in handy) and compare.

>

> Anyway, I'm pretty sure that installing and uninstalling a program would

> never overburden or disable System Restore!

If the program is large enough, it might. I've already run into one case

where I did install and then uninstall a program, and then tried using

System Restore to fully get it back to a clean system - and System Restore

balked. (System Restore came back and said it couldn't do the

restoration).

Of course, if I had NOT uninstalled it first and just tried running System

Restore, who knows what the result would have been. (My guess is it might

have been more successful and not balked; that is, it would have

successfully run to completion).

Still, I'd prefer to uninstall the program myself (as you would expect), and

not rely on System Restore to (in effect) do that for me (leaving behind

most of its program files in the process) but removing all registry

references to it.

BTW, that program was a trial edition of an older version of Adobe Audition,

which is a fairly large program.

February 25, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:u%236f2n4dIHA.4728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> Daave wrote:

>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>> We've covered some of the relative advantages and disadvantages of

>>> using System Restore and ERUNT here before, but I have a specific

>>> question relating to the usage of System Restore:

>>>

>>> Since System Restore tries to keeps track of file and registry

>>> *changes* to your system, and since these changes can really add up,

>>> the more you do *between restore points* (especially for a large

>>> program), here is my question:

>>>

>>> Let's suppose you first create a restore point. And then you

>>> install a program you want to try out. And then you decide you

>>> don't want that program, and want to uninstall it *and* have the

>>> system returned to as clean a state as it was before the

>>> installation

>>> (which means restoring the previous registry, too, since any program

>>> "uninstallation" routines often leave some things behind there).

>>>

>>> So, is it really better to first uninstall the program *before*

>>> running System Restore to the previous set point, OR to just leave

>>> the program installed, and then let System Restore effectively

>>> "uninstall" it? In the latter case, System Restore simply has to

>>> reverse *just the changes made since installation*, and NOT the

>>> changes compounded by the original installation and uninstallation

>>> scenario (and that's a lot more total changes to accurately keep

>>> track of to try to reverse - and it may overburden (and disable)

>>> System Restore.

>>

>> You can find out for yourself by conducting the following experiment:

>>

>> 1. Create a restore point.

>>

>> 2. Install your program.

>>

>> 3. Reboot and perform a System Restore to the point you created

>> before

>> the installation (remember that you can always undo a System

>> Restore).

>>

>> What is the result?

>>

>> Note: If you want to be really, really safe, create an image of your

>> hard drive using Acronis True Image before your experiment.

>>

>> Personally, I would just uninstall the program and be done with it.

>> There is only a tiny chance that any leftover registry entries after

>> uninstalling a program would cause an issue.

>

> Yes, and that is generally the case. (however, there have been a few

> exceptions)

>

>> I suppose for your

>> experiment, you would need to find a program that when uninstalled

>> *will* predictably cause problems. Then you could try it both ways

>> (here

>> is where your image would come in handy) and compare.

>>

>> Anyway, I'm pretty sure that installing and uninstalling a program

>> would

>> never overburden or disable System Restore!

>

> If the program is large enough, it might. I've already run into one

> case where I did install and then uninstall a program, and then tried

> using System Restore to fully get it back to a clean system - and

> System Restore balked. (System Restore came back and said it

> couldn't do the restoration).

>

> Of course, if I had NOT uninstalled it first and just tried running

> System Restore, who knows what the result would have been. (My

> guess is it might have been more successful and not balked; that is,

> it would have successfully run to completion).

> Still, I'd prefer to uninstall the program myself (as you would

> expect), and not rely on System Restore to (in effect) do that for me

> (leaving behind most of its program files in the process) but removing

> all registry references to it.

>

> BTW, that program was a trial edition of an older version of Adobe

> Audition, which is a fairly large program.

I would still think that simply uninstalling Adobe Audition and leaving

it at that would be all you need to do. I don't see how running System

Restore afterwards would be of any benefit; any leftover registry

entries should not be of any consequence.

February 25, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Daave wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:u%236f2n4dIHA.4728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> Daave wrote:

>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>> We've covered some of the relative advantages and disadvantages of

>>>> using System Restore and ERUNT here before, but I have a specific

>>>> question relating to the usage of System Restore:

>>>>

>>>> Since System Restore tries to keeps track of file and registry

>>>> *changes* to your system, and since these changes can really add up,

>>>> the more you do *between restore points* (especially for a large

>>>> program), here is my question:

>>>>

>>>> Let's suppose you first create a restore point. And then you

>>>> install a program you want to try out. And then you decide you

>>>> don't want that program, and want to uninstall it *and* have the

>>>> system returned to as clean a state as it was before the

>>>> installation

>>>> (which means restoring the previous registry, too, since any program

>>>> "uninstallation" routines often leave some things behind there).

>>>>

>>>> So, is it really better to first uninstall the program *before*

>>>> running System Restore to the previous set point, OR to just leave

>>>> the program installed, and then let System Restore effectively

>>>> "uninstall" it? In the latter case, System Restore simply has to

>>>> reverse *just the changes made since installation*, and NOT the

>>>> changes compounded by the original installation and uninstallation

>>>> scenario (and that's a lot more total changes to accurately keep

>>>> track of to try to reverse - and it may overburden (and disable)

>>>> System Restore.

>>>

>>> You can find out for yourself by conducting the following experiment:

>>>

>>> 1. Create a restore point.

>>>

>>> 2. Install your program.

>>>

>>> 3. Reboot and perform a System Restore to the point you created

>>> before

>>> the installation (remember that you can always undo a System

>>> Restore).

>>>

>>> What is the result?

>>>

>>> Note: If you want to be really, really safe, create an image of your

>>> hard drive using Acronis True Image before your experiment.

>>>

>>> Personally, I would just uninstall the program and be done with it.

>>> There is only a tiny chance that any leftover registry entries after

>>> uninstalling a program would cause an issue.

>>

>> Yes, and that is generally the case. (however, there have been a few

>> exceptions)

>>

>>> I suppose for your

>>> experiment, you would need to find a program that when uninstalled

>>> *will* predictably cause problems. Then you could try it both ways

>>> (here

>>> is where your image would come in handy) and compare.

>>>

>>> Anyway, I'm pretty sure that installing and uninstalling a program

>>> would

>>> never overburden or disable System Restore!

>>

>> If the program is large enough, it might. I've already run into one

>> case where I did install and then uninstall a program, and then tried

>> using System Restore to fully get it back to a clean system - and

>> System Restore balked. (System Restore came back and said it

>> couldn't do the restoration).

>>

>> Of course, if I had NOT uninstalled it first and just tried running

>> System Restore, who knows what the result would have been. (My

>> guess is it might have been more successful and not balked; that is,

>> it would have successfully run to completion).

>

>> Still, I'd prefer to uninstall the program myself (as you would

>> expect), and not rely on System Restore to (in effect) do that for me

>> (leaving behind most of its program files in the process) but removing

>> all registry references to it.

>>

>> BTW, that program was a trial edition of an older version of Adobe

>> Audition, which is a fairly large program.

>

> I would still think that simply uninstalling Adobe Audition and leaving

> it at that would be all you need to do. I don't see how running System

> Restore afterwards would be of any benefit; any leftover registry

> entries should not be of any consequence.

But as I've said, that is generally true, but not *always* true.

It's not ONLY some registry changes that weren't undone, but occasionally

some changes regarding some DLLs and codecs (as examples).

Of course, ERUNT can completely undo any registry changes, but System

Restore can do a bit more - when it works properly, that is. In addition

to the registry, System Restore keeps track of some other changes on the

system, too. We've already covered that before (like how some monitored

file types can be removed upon a System Restore operation)

February 25, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Bill in Co. wrote:

> Daave wrote:

>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>> news:u%236f2n4dIHA.4728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>> Daave wrote:

>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>> We've covered some of the relative advantages and disadvantages of

>>>>> using System Restore and ERUNT here before, but I have a specific

>>>>> question relating to the usage of System Restore:

>>>>>

>>>>> Since System Restore tries to keeps track of file and registry

>>>>> *changes* to your system, and since these changes can really add

>>>>> up, the more you do *between restore points* (especially for a

>>>>> large program), here is my question:

>>>>>

>>>>> Let's suppose you first create a restore point. And then you

>>>>> install a program you want to try out. And then you decide you

>>>>> don't want that program, and want to uninstall it *and* have the

>>>>> system returned to as clean a state as it was before the

>>>>> installation

>>>>> (which means restoring the previous registry, too, since any

>>>>> program "uninstallation" routines often leave some things behind

>>>>> there).

>>>>>

>>>>> So, is it really better to first uninstall the program *before*

>>>>> running System Restore to the previous set point, OR to just leave

>>>>> the program installed, and then let System Restore effectively

>>>>> "uninstall" it? In the latter case, System Restore simply has

>>>>> to reverse *just the changes made since installation*, and NOT the

>>>>> changes compounded by the original installation and uninstallation

>>>>> scenario (and that's a lot more total changes to accurately keep

>>>>> track of to try to reverse - and it may overburden (and disable)

>>>>> System Restore.

>>>>

>>>> You can find out for yourself by conducting the following

>>>> experiment:

>>>>

>>>> 1. Create a restore point.

>>>>

>>>> 2. Install your program.

>>>>

>>>> 3. Reboot and perform a System Restore to the point you created

>>>> before

>>>> the installation (remember that you can always undo a System

>>>> Restore).

>>>>

>>>> What is the result?

>>>>

>>>> Note: If you want to be really, really safe, create an image of

>>>> your hard drive using Acronis True Image before your experiment.

>>>>

>>>> Personally, I would just uninstall the program and be done with it.

>>>> There is only a tiny chance that any leftover registry entries

>>>> after uninstalling a program would cause an issue.

>>>

>>> Yes, and that is generally the case. (however, there have been a

>>> few exceptions)

>>>

>>>> I suppose for your

>>>> experiment, you would need to find a program that when uninstalled

>>>> *will* predictably cause problems. Then you could try it both ways

>>>> (here

>>>> is where your image would come in handy) and compare.

>>>>

>>>> Anyway, I'm pretty sure that installing and uninstalling a program

>>>> would

>>>> never overburden or disable System Restore!

>>>

>>> If the program is large enough, it might. I've already run into

>>> one case where I did install and then uninstall a program, and then

>>> tried using System Restore to fully get it back to a clean system -

>>> and System Restore balked. (System Restore came back and said it

>>> couldn't do the restoration).

>>>

>>> Of course, if I had NOT uninstalled it first and just tried running

>>> System Restore, who knows what the result would have been. (My

>>> guess is it might have been more successful and not balked; that is,

>>> it would have successfully run to completion).

>>

>>> Still, I'd prefer to uninstall the program myself (as you would

>>> expect), and not rely on System Restore to (in effect) do that for

>>> me (leaving behind most of its program files in the process) but

>>> removing all registry references to it.

>>>

>>> BTW, that program was a trial edition of an older version of Adobe

>>> Audition, which is a fairly large program.

>>

>> I would still think that simply uninstalling Adobe Audition and

>> leaving it at that would be all you need to do. I don't see how

>> running System Restore afterwards would be of any benefit; any

>> leftover registry entries should not be of any consequence.

>

> But as I've said, that is generally true, but not *always* true.

>

> It's not ONLY some registry changes that weren't undone, but

> occasionally some changes regarding some DLLs and codecs (as

> examples).

>

> Of course, ERUNT can completely undo any registry changes, but System

> Restore can do a bit more - when it works properly, that is. In

> addition to the registry, System Restore keeps track of some other

> changes on the system, too. We've already covered that before (like

> how some monitored file types can be removed upon a System Restore

> operation)

Yes, this may not always be true. But it is *almost always* true. So,

since the overwhelming majority of the time, there is no consequence to

leaving a few leftover registry entries after an uninstall, I wouldn't

worry about running System Restore every time following (or in place of)

an uninstall.

In the rare instance there is a problem, then I would be comfortable

running either regedit or Jouni Vuorio's RegCleaner 4.3 (for the purpose

of searching for entries specifically related to the errant program).

Yes, I mentioned a "registry cleaner!" But this one does not do the

typical automatic search and destroy that most "cleaners" do (unless you

tweak it, and this is something I would never recommend, anyway); rather

there are two columns -- Author and Software. And whenever an entry is

right-clicked, the location of the registry keys is revealed. You don't

even need to remove the keys via RegCleaner. If you're paranoid, you can

always just note the location and use regedit to do the deed. That being

said, I would never recommend messing with the registry to *any* newbie.

But for those interested, there are plenty of materials on the Web one

can read to learn about the registry. And ERUNT is an excellent tool for

backing up the registry -- just in case. So, if System Restore doesn't

yield the desired result, there's always ERUNT. (Or imaging the hard

drive regularly can do the trick, too.)

February 26, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Daave wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>> Daave wrote:

>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>> news:u%236f2n4dIHA.4728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>> Daave wrote:

>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>> We've covered some of the relative advantages and disadvantages of

>>>>>> using System Restore and ERUNT here before, but I have a specific

>>>>>> question relating to the usage of System Restore:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Since System Restore tries to keeps track of file and registry

>>>>>> *changes* to your system, and since these changes can really add

>>>>>> up, the more you do *between restore points* (especially for a

>>>>>> large program), here is my question:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Let's suppose you first create a restore point. And then you

>>>>>> install a program you want to try out. And then you decide you

>>>>>> don't want that program, and want to uninstall it *and* have the

>>>>>> system returned to as clean a state as it was before the

>>>>>> installation

>>>>>> (which means restoring the previous registry, too, since any

>>>>>> program "uninstallation" routines often leave some things behind

>>>>>> there).

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So, is it really better to first uninstall the program *before*

>>>>>> running System Restore to the previous set point, OR to just leave

>>>>>> the program installed, and then let System Restore effectively

>>>>>> "uninstall" it? In the latter case, System Restore simply has

>>>>>> to reverse *just the changes made since installation*, and NOT the

>>>>>> changes compounded by the original installation and uninstallation

>>>>>> scenario (and that's a lot more total changes to accurately keep

>>>>>> track of to try to reverse - and it may overburden (and disable)

>>>>>> System Restore.

>>>>>

>>>>> You can find out for yourself by conducting the following

>>>>> experiment:

>>>>>

>>>>> 1. Create a restore point.

>>>>>

>>>>> 2. Install your program.

>>>>>

>>>>> 3. Reboot and perform a System Restore to the point you created

>>>>> before

>>>>> the installation (remember that you can always undo a System

>>>>> Restore).

>>>>>

>>>>> What is the result?

>>>>>

>>>>> Note: If you want to be really, really safe, create an image of

>>>>> your hard drive using Acronis True Image before your experiment.

>>>>>

>>>>> Personally, I would just uninstall the program and be done with it.

>>>>> There is only a tiny chance that any leftover registry entries

>>>>> after uninstalling a program would cause an issue.

>>>>

>>>> Yes, and that is generally the case. (however, there have been a

>>>> few exceptions)

>>>>

>>>>> I suppose for your

>>>>> experiment, you would need to find a program that when uninstalled

>>>>> *will* predictably cause problems. Then you could try it both ways

>>>>> (here

>>>>> is where your image would come in handy) and compare.

>>>>>

>>>>> Anyway, I'm pretty sure that installing and uninstalling a program

>>>>> would

>>>>> never overburden or disable System Restore!

>>>>

>>>> If the program is large enough, it might. I've already run into

>>>> one case where I did install and then uninstall a program, and then

>>>> tried using System Restore to fully get it back to a clean system -

>>>> and System Restore balked. (System Restore came back and said it

>>>> couldn't do the restoration).

>>>>

>>>> Of course, if I had NOT uninstalled it first and just tried running

>>>> System Restore, who knows what the result would have been. (My

>>>> guess is it might have been more successful and not balked; that is,

>>>> it would have successfully run to completion).

>>>

>>>> Still, I'd prefer to uninstall the program myself (as you would

>>>> expect), and not rely on System Restore to (in effect) do that for

>>>> me (leaving behind most of its program files in the process) but

>>>> removing all registry references to it.

>>>>

>>>> BTW, that program was a trial edition of an older version of Adobe

>>>> Audition, which is a fairly large program.

>>>

>>> I would still think that simply uninstalling Adobe Audition and

>>> leaving it at that would be all you need to do. I don't see how

>>> running System Restore afterwards would be of any benefit; any

>>> leftover registry entries should not be of any consequence.

>>

>> But as I've said, that is generally true, but not *always* true.

>>

>> It's not ONLY some registry changes that weren't undone, but

>> occasionally some changes regarding some DLLs and codecs (as

>> examples).

>>

>> Of course, ERUNT can completely undo any registry changes, but System

>> Restore can do a bit more - when it works properly, that is. In

>> addition to the registry, System Restore keeps track of some other

>> changes on the system, too. We've already covered that before (like

>> how some monitored file types can be removed upon a System Restore

>> operation)

>

> Yes, this may not always be true. But it is *almost always* true.

I know. (You're preachin to the choir. :-)

That said, however, I've likely witnessed a few more cases than most have

where it hasn't been true. But then again, I've been messin with all this

stuff since Day1, although I am somewhat new to XP (Win98SE was my primary

mainstay, well, and Win95, and Win3.1, and DOS, and some programming.

> So, since the overwhelming majority of the time, there is no consequence

> to

> leaving a few leftover registry entries after an uninstall, I wouldn't

> worry about running System Restore every time following (or in place of)

> an uninstall.

>

> In the rare instance there is a problem, then I would be comfortable

> running either regedit or Jouni Vuorio's RegCleaner 4.3 (for the purpose

> of searching for entries specifically related to the errant program).

Yeah, I know, am familiar with it, and several others, and even Registry

Workshop, where you'd need to know exactly what you are doing.

> Yes, I mentioned a "registry cleaner!" But this one does not do the

> typical automatic search and destroy that most "cleaners" do (unless you

> tweak it, and this is something I would never recommend, anyway); rather

> there are two columns -- Author and Software. And whenever an entry is

> right-clicked, the location of the registry keys is revealed. You don't

> even need to remove the keys via RegCleaner. If you're paranoid, you can

> always just note the location and use regedit to do the deed. That being

> said, I would never recommend messing with the registry to *any* newbie.

Me either. But again, I'm no newbie at it, either.

I think a prudent guideline is (for example), if you don't even know your

way around regedit, you shouldn't be trying out ANY reg cleaner programs -

period. And even if you do know your away around using regedit (manually

editing the registry), you probably know enough to limit your experiments

there. And so, "a word to the wise is sufficient".

> But for those interested, there are plenty of materials on the Web one

> can read to learn about the registry. And ERUNT is an excellent tool for

> backing up the registry -- just in case. So, if System Restore doesn't

> yield the desired result, there's always ERUNT. (Or imaging the hard

> drive regularly can do the trick, too.)

Done all of that, too.

March 1, 2008

Re: System Restore - but uninstall the undesired program first?

Bill in Co. wrote:

> Daave wrote:

>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>> We've covered some of the relative advantages and disadvantages of

>>> using System Restore and ERUNT here before, but I have a specific

>>> question relating to the usage of System Restore:

>>>

>>> Since System Restore tries to keeps track of file and registry

>>> *changes* to your system, and since these changes can really add up,

>>> the more you do *between restore points* (especially for a large

>>> program), here is my question:

>>>

>>> Let's suppose you first create a restore point. And then you

>>> install a program you want to try out. And then you decide you

>>> don't want that program, and want to uninstall it *and* have the

>>> system returned to as clean a state as it was before the installation